#hawk and dove 1989

[professoruber]

Why I think Bette Kane never really caught on in popularity...

So a while ago I did a write-up on some stuff about the treatment of Bette Kane which I thought was strange. In general though I think she is a neat character who has been unfortunately overlooked.

Been thinking a bit about it again and do have a bit of a spitball / idea on the why in regards to the lack of prominence of the original Bat-Girl.

To put it in short; writers don't seem to know what to do with her and none of her best stories seem to get any follow-up and

I would say Bette's best appearances (which depict her as being more than just Robin/Nightwing's love interest or Batwoman's sidekick) are...

Hawk and Dove (1989) - Annual 1

Beast Boy (2000)

DC's Legion of Bloom (2023) - "The Birds and the Bees"

For Hawk and Dove, Bette only appeared in the Annual as far as I am aware. Meanwhile DC's Legion of Bloom is a one-shot anthology in which Bette only appears in a single story. And Beast Boy (2000) was a limited series which ran for only four issues.

Each of these, I think, did a good job giving Bette and her character/personality/capabilities focus. Even if they all have jokes at Bette's expense, still's still depicted as competent.

I think all of them struck a decent balance of making fun of Bette (such as everyone's disinterest at her constant attempts at re-starting Titans West or generally depicted her as a valley girl) while also letting her have her moments and be an independent superhero rather than a sidekick or love interest.

As I mentioned above though, all of these three appearances are either one-shots or a limited series.

All of them do a good job of setting up Bette Kane as her own character, as well as the whole Titans West stuff which seems pretty central to her character, but none of them get much follow-up. Beast Boy (2000) does get continued and leads to the creation of Titans LA, but that team is only listed as having two appearances by the DC Wiki.

I also don't believe "The Birds and the Bees" has gotten any follow-up either, although it only came up last year so there's still time.

This went on a bit longer than I expected but that is basically my thoughts on why I think Bette Kane has not gotten much popularity of recognition.

(She does also get focus in DC Bombshells but that's elseworlds)

[fancyfade]

I know the writers intend on portraying hawk and dove as equally valid (at least if you believe the responses in the letter columns) but issue 15 hawk is really a moron. Yes, hawk, mshulla and kestrel, the last of whom is possessing your friend and completely controlling her, are super pro personal freedom

[nerds-yearbook]

Out of the events from the DC Invasion event, the Hawk and Dove title was relaunched (vol 3, cover date June, 1989). The issue introduced Barter, Gauntlet, and Dugan created by Karl Kesel, Barbara Kesel, and Greg Guler ("Gauntlet!", Hawk and Dove 1, vol 3, Comic, event)

[jerichogender]

hawk & dove crossover joey wilson written by barbara & karl kesel you will always be famous

[nightmareinfloral]

Jericho- Where to Read?

Joseph William Wilson (Jericho) is the youngest son of Slade Wilson (Deathstroke) and Adeline Kane. Beneath the cut is a complete list of Joey’s major appearances updated as of January 2024. Most important issues are in bold.

The 1980s:

Tales of the Teen Titans (1984) 42-44, Annual 3, 45-48, 50-52, 56-57, 58

The New Teen Titans (1984) 1-2, 3-5

Crisis on infinite Earths (1985) 3-5, 9, 11

Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe (1985) 11

The New Teen Titans (1984) 6-10, Annual 1, 11-13, 14-15

The Omega Men (1983) 34-35

The New Teen Titans (1984) 16-17, 18, 22, 24-31

Action Comics (1938) 584

Teen Titans Spotlight (1986) 3-6

Secret Origins (1986) 13

History of the DC Universe (1986) 2

The New Teen Titans (1984) 33-34

Blue Beetle (1986) 11-14

The New Teen Titans (1984) 35-37, Annual 3, 39-49, Annual 4

The New Titans (1988) 50-55

Secret Origins (1986) Annual 3

The New Titans (1988) Annual 5, 57-59

Batman (1940) 440

The New Titans (1988) 60-61

Secret Origins (1986) 46

The New Titans (1988) 62-63

The 1990s:

The New Titans (1988) 64-67

Hawk & Dove (1989) 11-12

The New Titans (1988) 68-69

Who’s Who in the DC Universe (1990) 1

The New Titans (1988) Annual 6

Wonder Woman (1987) 47, 49

The New Titans (1988) 71, 75-79, Annual 7, 80-85. 86

Deathstroke the Terminator (1991) 1-7, 9, 11, Annual 1

Showcase ‘93 (1993) 2

Batman Shadow of the Bat (1992) 34

Deathstroke (1991) 48

JLA/Titans (1998) 1

Nightwing Secret Files and Origins (1999) 1

The Titans (1999) 10

The 2000s:

The Titans (1999) 25, 46

Teen Titans (2003) 2

Batman Gotham Knights (2000) 44

Teen Titans (2003) 3-5, 7-8

Avengers/JLA (2003) 4

Teen Titans (2003) 9, 11-12, 21

Nightwing (1995) 106

DC Special The Return of Donna Troy (2005) 1

Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files and Origins (2005) 1

Teen Titans (2003) 33, 39-47, 52

Countdown to Final Crisis (2007) 36

DC Universe: Last Will and Testament (2008) 1

DC Universe Decisions (2008) 3-4

Titans (2008) 6-12

Teen Titans (2003) Annual 1, 69

Vigilante (2008) 5

Teen Titans (2003) 70

Titans (2008) 13

Vigilante (2008) 6

Teen Titans (2003) 77-78

The 2010s:

DC Universe Legacies (2010) 5

Titans (2008) 37-38, Annual 1

Deathstroke (2011) 0, 13, 19-20

New Teen Titans: Games (2011)

Deathstroke (2014) 2-6, 17-20

Convergence New Teen Titans (2015) 1-2

Deathstroke: Rebirth (2016) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 1-3, 6-10, 12-16, 18

Teen Titans (2016) 8

Deathstroke (2016) 19

Teen Titans The Lazarus Contract Special (2017) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 20-25

DC Holiday Special (2017) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 26-27, Annual 1, 28 -32, 34-50

The 2020s:

Dark Knights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe (2020) 1

Batman Black and White (2020) 5

Deathstroke Inc. (2021) 1, 5, 7

Future State Gotham (2021) 12

Tales of the Titans (2023) 2

Thank you to @jerichogender for helping me compile!

[jerichogender]

I’d like to direct everyone to Hawk & Dove (1989) #11 & 12, the New Teen Titans crossover where Hank & Joey meet to some…interesting results

Joey: I've been banned from 80 countries Hank: I've only been banned from 12 Joey: You're gay too??? Hank: ......

[beware-the-creeper-blog]

Page in HAWK & DOVE (1989) #18 showing The Creeper changing with Jack Ryder having no recollection of The Creeper's actions

Plus the black eye he got from Milton

[nikrei]

July Comics Round Up

Trying something new where I actually record this as I read and not all at once at the end of the month.

Hawk & Dove (14-28) (1990-1991)

V v good!! I love Dove she's my baby girl, and by the end of it Hawk was even starting to grow in me like a fungus. Also, thank gawd they stuck to their guns and never did a romance between Hawk and Dove, I really liked their love interests. (Also Babs shows up!!! Love love love) this finished up this run, it was pretty short. 100% recommended reading, especially if you are interested in the lords of chaos/order dynamics.

Doctor Fate (14-31) (1990-1991)

One thing I can say about DeMatteis's run is that despite all the weird "xtianity is the true religion" overtones, the insistence that the center of the universe, the greatest power behind everything, is pure unending joyful compassionate LOVE really gets to me. Could do without the overwhelming unsubtle proselytizing tho. Messner-Loebs follow-up is sooooo good tho holy shit, love love love the social commentary going on.

Starman (20-37) (1990-1991)

Will is such a good boy but he can be so dumb sometimes. Watching him learn and grow is very fun! This run strikes a good balance of drama humor and sincerity.

Doom Patrol (30-44) (1990-1991)

Excellent storytelling, and i got to meet Danny the Street!! Morrisons run is practically crossing itself over with the magnus archives they fit so well together. A little out of step with the rest of dc's mythology but that's sort of the point of it <3

Hellblazer (27-45) (1990-1991)

Most of 1990 I was thinking that John is really not doing a lot of magic stuff, just getting into wierd situations then 91 hit and bam, lung cancer soul selling arc! It was exciting to read after seeing it mentioned in so many places.

Swamp Thing (91-109) (1990-1991)

Okay Wheeler has me feeling all sorts of ways. Obviously his whole deal with planetary afterlifes has me going insane, but also he is so so wierd about christianity like his whole set up of the eden situation with angels that consult god, its all so awkward with established Swamp Thing mythos. Also, the Grey has been introduced and posites that fungus and decay are extraterrestrial life imposed on earth and I sort of hate it. Back in Moore's run, towards the beginning, all discussion of decay was as a part of ecosystems which is true! Having decay be an imposed malicious force is sooooooo dumb I hate it. Wheeler can tell a story but all his subject matter is sus as hell.

The Demon (1-16) (1990-1991)

Does not further my blood/etrigan agenda as much as I would like, but it is pretty fun. Also Klarion and Lobo showed up which was exciting

Batman (443-469) (1990-1991)

It's timbo's time to shine! They really are shilling hard for this kid, but I love him so its okay.

Detective Comics (612-637) (1990-1991)

Frustrating that Jason's name is anathema until tim shows up and then it's all victim blame-y bullshit to make tim look better.

Robin (1-5) (1991)

This is one of the first dc comics I read! So it was very exciting to come back to it with a better understanding of everything going on, especially more Shiva background. Also, new version of Ace the bathound showed up!

Legends of the Dark Knight (1-20) (1989-1991)

Some good stories but I am so tired of the clumsy mystic noble savage trope that these authors love to pull when they involve indigenous folk. Also, the more stories that happen that take up months the funnier i think it is that all of these have to be happening in the first the years of Bruce's career because Dick isn't there yet.

New Titans (65-80) (1990-1991)

Jumped back into the town just in time for my last favorite arc, Wildebeest Jericho, doing my precious baby boy wrong on every possible level. Good slade content yeah, but at what cost? And it gets all mucked up with the Armageddon 2001 event in a way that is just messy storytelling.

The Flash (34-54) (1990-1991)

Wally is my dumb little guy and he is living and learning and trying his best. I'm so glad that he has a full pit crew for his high powered racehorse disposition. Also he got a dog named mercury! So far this run has been a good mix of funny and sincere, action and drama. Deffo recommend.

Suicide Squad (37-57) (1990-1991)

Amanda Waller is really peak boss in these issues. She's softened up in some ways and gotten sharper in others. Very fun to see the squad do the freelance thing. And also BABS IS HERE!! (Oops I mean 'amy') I love her ahhhh

Captain Atom (37-57) (1990-1991)

Finished this one up, all in all it's a good run. Nathan is an interesting hero and there's a lot of themes about truth vs lies and the shitty nature of the us military, but also there are some very funny silly moments. Recommended!

Animal Man (23-40) (1990-1991)

Holy shit Morrison's run was so gooood, 4th wall breaking meta level shit I'm very into it. A very wierd follow-up after that, but it involved Animal Man positing multiverse theory that spit in the face of ordained dc canon (but aligns with my thoughts on the subject hell yeah) But yeah, Buddy is going thru the wars in this.

Green Arrow (29-50) (1990-1991)

They are really leaning into this whole "Ollie kills people now" thing. Also, Dinah continues to be a footnote in service to Ollie's story and I hope she leaves him soon. They aren't bad stories but I think Grell leans too hard into the 'Dark and Gritty.'

The Question (34-36) (1990)/Question Quarterly (1-5) (1990-1992)

If I had realized there were only three issues left on the og I would have just finished it up last time! Proud of Vic for leaving Hub City, truly the worst city in America. Conversely, also proud of Myra for staying and trying to fix things. As far as quarterly goes, I can't believe what they did to Jackie holy hell. Honestly, as far as the whole series goes, the downward spiral of Hub City is so extreme that it really is just a reflection of how everything is getting more uneccessarily dark and gritty on a meta level.

Action Comics (252-285) (1959-1962)

And I am officially back in the silver age!! I started 'Tec/Batman when Batgirl showed up so I figured I'd start Action/Superman when Supergirl showed up! Tbh silver age doesn't really do it for me, so I am skimming these just a bit sometimes, but it really is fun to see just how wacky things could get back then! Also, Clark is wayyy too mean to Kara!! She's always crying wanting to be adopted and have a loving family and he's like! Too bad! Be my secret weapon! Also, these comics have such a messed up idea of adoption and kids having to prove that they're worthy of being loved and the adults shopping around. Is that just what things were like?? Anyway in 285 she's revealed to the world! She has a loving family with the Danvers! It's everything I wanted!!

Superman (130-150) (1959-1962)

Started this at a point to be contemporary with AC. Silver age Clark is certainly a guy, I'm collecting panels of him eating weird things. Also, 60s Lois is the gal of all time absolutely. I sorta can't wait until socials mores move away from "women must want to be married, immediately." Also this current continuity has the Kent's having died before Clark moved to Metropolis, which is sorta wild.

Adventure Comics (247-280) (1958-1961)

The Superboy stuff is honestly really silly when you think of all this shit happening while Clark is a very narrow age range, but also they keep referring to things that happened in previous comics as happening a few years ago in universe. Time isn't real baybee! Anyway I started here because it was the first issue with the Legion! I didn't realize that I was getting Green Arrow and Aquaman backups until I started so that was a fun bonus, especially getting to read Garth's first appearance! Honestly I love that in this time period Arthur is sorta just a homeless loser who has nothing to do with Atlantis but is calling himself the king of the sea anyway.

Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen (40-58) (1959-1962)

Jimmy is the sokka of the group sorry I don't make the rules I just say the cursed truth.

Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane (1-28) (1958-1961)

This comic truly is gaslight gaslight girlboss. Aka 66% is Clark gaslighting Lois about superman and the other 34% is Lois being a v 50s/60s girlboss, I love her so much, but oh my gawd this time period goes hard on MARRIAGE. I will be honest the gender essentialism in this does get very annoying. Its in all of the comics but is most focused in this one because it's about Human-Woman Lois Lane.

World's Finest Comics (100-123) (1959-1962)

For the most part I'm not that into these because there's not much actual character interaction, its all just new fight with a new gimmick. This is especially obvious in the Green Arrow backups where they only have 6 pages and it's all to showcase the newest arrow. Didn't read any of the Tommy Tomorrow backups sorry my dude i do not know u i do not care.

Green Lantern (1-10) (1960-1962) + Showcase (22-24) (1959)

This is a lot of fun! I think I like silver age comics like GL and Flash better than batman or superman because they are new characters with no status quo to uphold. Hal can do a lot with his ring, like transmuting matter, that I'm pretty sure can't be done these days, which will be neat to watch develop.

Justice League of America (1-8) (1960-1962) + Brave and the Bold (28-30) (1960)

Fine!! I caved!! I let my terrible completionist nature get the better of me and I'm gonna read the first 75 of these that I skipped last time. Its sorta wild tho, because reading the solos of this time period you'd think that nobody is sharing the same world except superman and batman, and aquaman sometimes, but then there they are on the justice league! (No seriously, superman has been to at least two separate "mysterious Amazon islands" that have nothing to do with paradise island. And he's never made mention of knowing an amazon.)

So my recording as I go experiment has worked, which is honestly a really good thing because I would be really hard pressed to review the stuff from before my time jump right now, oops.

[zahri-melitor]

The current progress of my Post-Crisis 'to read' list. It just sort of keeps getting longer and I tag more stuff onto it.

Batman and ‘Tec readthrough 1990-2011 for the stretches I skipped due to lack of Batfam content

The Batman Chronicles, issues I haven’t read yet.

Batman: Shadows of the Bat issues I skipped due to lack of involvement in events

Pull the full 90s Showcase list and work out which issues still contain characters I care about and haven’t got to yet

Gotham Central

Finish Manhunter vol 3

Superboy

Impulse

Huntress 1989

Titans 1998

Teen Titans 2003

Outsiders 2003

Crisis on Infinite Earths (as I’m a maniac)

Infinite Crisis

Look at Countdown & 52

Vic Sage Question serieses

Richard Dragon serieses

Renee Montoya Question

Batwoman

Go poke at Black Canary vol 2 again to see if I bounce off it hard once more

Connor Hawke Green Arrow read

The Wonder Girl miniseries

Work out how to approach Wonder Woman

Find someone with an actual opinion on Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight to discover if there are any arcs in this worth reading or if my general impression to avoid it outside of specific recommendations/crossovers has been correct (I’ve read…crossovers. And LOTDK #100 for the Haly’s Circus retelling)

Babs Suicide Squad read!

Contemplate sticking my head into the headache that is reading JL/JLA (and then exit extremely fast, if I know me)

JLA: Tower of Babel (at a minimum while I read JL content)

A BUNCH of loosely connected Bat miniseries that I haven’t read

I should actually read Quiver, it’s on my shelf

Jaime Reyes read that covers his post 2011 appearances

Superman/Batman? Superman/Batman

Look, probably more Arrow content. Maybe some Flash content. Try to approach this sensibly by recommended writer runs rather than ‘I’m going in and going straight through!’

Continue with Wonder Woman (about to start John Byrne)

Do I go read some more of Azrael failson? I mean JPV is amusing in VERY small doses

Catwoman read, vols 1, 2 & 3

You still can’t make me read NTT

Actually get around to reading The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/When In Rome

More Ted Kord Blue Beetle, work out where I need to look

Checkmate 1988

Checkmate 2006

Martian Manhunter the Ostrander run

Hawk and Dove? Maybe?

Manhunter 1988

[smashedpages]

Coming off a successful miniseries that rebooted the characters, Hawk & Dove leapt into their own ongoing series on this day in 1989. Barbara Kesel, Karl Kesel, Greg Guler and Scott Hanna continued the adventures of Hank Hall and Dawn Granger, as they fought villains and learned to work as a team.

[apopcornkernel]

anyways guys just read hawk and dove (1989) #14 to #17 :///////

[87dvhnk]

Jericho kissing Dove's hand like a chivalrous-ass knight. Hawk & Dove (1989) # 11.

[fancyfade]

barter spotted?

Birds of Prey #2

I only know him from like the 1989 hawk and dove series, so i'm surprised to see him here.

[nerds-yearbook]

Sudden Death was introduced in Hawk & Dove 5# vol 3 with a cover date of October, 1989. He was created by Karl and Barbara Kesel and Chris Wazniak. ("Sudden Death!", Hawk & Dove 5# vol 3, DC Comic Event)

[sbd-laytall]

Yeah, I can absolutely understand how she became friends with Dick.

Hawk and Dove (1989) #24

[latinotimdrake]

yeah so I've pretty much given up doing any kind of organized comics reading while school is in session but tonight I find myself flipping through Hawk and Dove (1989) Annual #1 and Batwoman (2011) because I've been meaning to get acquainted with Bette Kane for like 6 months