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thepersonperson · 4 months ago

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Sukuna's You Pronouns

Someone pointed out that Sukuna doesn't exclusively use the you pronoun Kisama for Gojo in the tags as a response to this post. Sukuna also uses it for Kashimo.

This prompted me to go back and double-check his you pronoun usage with everyone since I focused on people he openly likes (Gojo, Higurama, Jogo, Megumi, Maki, Uraume).

And that, of course, spiraled out of control. Please enjoy my findings. (Someone made a formal response to this post if you want an alternate perspective.)

-Written as of JJK 262.5.

-Mangareader(.)to for the raws.

-TCBscans for everything else.

(Click images for captions/citations.)

Preface

Here's a shorthand for how Sukuna addresses characters with you pronouns. Not when he's speaking about them to other people, but when talking to them directly.

No You Pronouns: Haruta, Higurama, Kenjaku, Kusakabe, Mahito, Miguel, Ui Ui, Uraume

Omae: Finger Bearer, Gojo, Jogo, Mahoraga, Maki, Mimiko/Nanako, Megumi, Ryu, Yorozu, Yuji, Yuta

Kisama: Gojo, Kashimo, Yorozu

What does 'no you pronouns' mean?

Not using you pronouns or someone's name is the most polite and formal way to go about addressing someone in Japanese. Using you pronouns invites certain assumptions about the relationship between the speaker and the addressee. In most cases it's informal or rude. Sukuna going out of his way not to use pronouns for someone suggests he views them with some amount of respect. (Except for Haruta. To this day, this is the only character Sukuna has called trash.)

What does Omae and Kisama mean?

お前 (Omae), often written as オマエ in JJK, is a masculine, informal, and indicates the speaker's higher status to the addressee. It can also be used as a causal you between peers of equal standing (Gojo, Yuji, and Megumi use Omae for everyone in this way).

There is a third use in the context of love. It's the male equivalent of あなた (Anata aka the wife pronoun you could translate as "You, Dear") when used by a man to their lover. This usage seems to have conflicted usage irl. It might be too intimate or informal depending on the relationship. (Basically it pisses some people off or is a massive turn on.)

貴様 (Kisama) is historically formal and respectful, and modernly an extremely informal and hostile insult that is far more rude than Omae.

Which way does Sukuna mean his Omaes and Kisamas? Well, context is everything. He is 1,000 years old, rude as hell, and a hater. In most instances, he means the rude version. Trying to figure out when he's not being a bastard is the hard part and what I'm interested in.

Why does this matter?

Pronouns in Japanese indicate how the speaker views themself and how they view their relationship to the addressee. In other words, pronoun usage in Japanese carries characterization that gets lost in translation. I'm trying to figure out Sukuna's internal logic and his particular brand of communication so this is a helpful thing to consider.

For example, when Gojo first trash talks Sukuna out of the box, Uraume gets pissed and insults him. And guess what they use as the insult—Kisama.

I put this side by side with an English translation for context. If you noticed, there is no kanji for "Swine" in the raws. That was added in by the localization to carry over the tone of the original. Since English doesn't have a you (derogatory), this is where localizations will vary the greatest. To get across the hostility of Kisama, translators will add extra things with or without the creator's direction for their language's audience.

Uraume is extremely polite to Sukuna and uses high level vocabulary in Japanese. The only time their politeness drops is when they're being hostile (especially with Kenjaku), but their elegant manner of speech doesn't deteriorate with their mood. In my opinion, "Swine" is a great word to pick that carries that insulting, yet dignified pattern of speech. Someone less snobby might use pig.

Gojo replies by referring to Uraume with てめえ (Temee) which is even more rude than Kisama. (Sometimes this you is spelled as てまえ (Temae) instead.)

This stands out because Gojo either uses Omae (friends and enemies), no you pronouns (everyone), or 君 Kimi (students—this one is cute because it's an affectionate way to dote on your juniors). (Gojo also exclusively uses アンタ Anta with Toji but that deserves its own post.) Not just that, but he ends his sentence with だよ (Dayo). This is a combination of the particles だ (Da) and よ (Yo) that emphasizes what ever the speaker is saying without respect.

Both TCBsans and Viz localize this as "Who are you?" That's a direct translation that in my opinion doesn't get across how pissed Gojo is. If it were up to me, I think it would be better as "Who the FUCK are you?"

Anyways I hope this explains why I'm so obsessed with how Sukuna uses you pronouns. There's characterization and tone that translators may or may not pick up on. Figuring out why Sukuna uses certain yous helps with understanding how he views others.

Omae

As you saw in the list, Sukuna uses Omae for just about everyone. It ranges from people he openly hates (Yuji) to characters he massively respects (Mahoraga). The easy way to resolve this is to assume that Sukuna looks down on everyone so that's what he means at all times.

I don't think that's the case. Sukuna is a very complex character with weird motivations that don't fit neatly into black/white boxes. Reading his words a single way at all times seems to be a disservice to him. So I'll be presenting my theories on what determines the meaning of Sukuna's Omae.

Omae (Deragatory)

Itadori Yuji

When Sukuna uses Omae for Yuji, it's coupled by insults. That's not surprising, Sukuna despises Yuji so much that he's devoted a good deal of his time to making his poor little nephew suffer. I can confidently say the Omaes are derogatory. Here is one of many instances.

No matter how angry Sukuna gets at Yuji, he has never deviated from Omae. This is interesting to me because the more hostile and ruder you pronouns Kisama and Temae/Temee exist. In fact, Yuji uses Temee for Sukuna most of the time. And he uses Temee for no one else, not even Mahito, who gets Omae like Yuji’s friends. This special pronoun usage for Sukuna shows how much Yuji hates him compared to any other character.

Anyways, this is a good starting point for determining how he means Omae. When Sukuna means Omae in a rude way, it'll be combined with an insult and/or accompanied by an aggravated facial expression. He also will avoid addressing the character by name and instead use nomers (such as Brat) externally and internally.

Finger Bearer

Despite trying to befriend this curse for the sole purpose of bullying children, Sukuna doesn’t show the Finger Bearer a lot of respect. He tries to kill it, insults it at every turn, and gives it a few nasty faces for attacking him. It’s no surprise he uses Omae for this thing.

He treats this curse like he treats Yuji, which is a pretty good sign that the Omae usage is disrespectful. This is also helps establish a pattern for Sukuna’s behavior when he chooses to engage with other beings. It should be noted that he calls the Finger Bearer an insect and refuses to address it by anything that's dignified.

Hasaba Mimiko & Nanako

Sukuna addresses Mimiko and Nanako as you kids and with Omae for bringing him a finger. He also demands they bow before him to acknowledge just how far beneath him they are.

He doesn’t ask for their names and he kills them the second he finds them too annoying. There’s a clear lack of respect for the twins here that makes the Omae appear to be very deragatory.

Jogo

Jogo starts in the same category as Mimiko wnd Nanako. That much is obvious with Sukuna cutting off the top of his head for mot bowing low enough. Sukuna uses Omae to both address and insult him, so it can be assumed he’s being deragatory.

But what separates Jogo from everyone on this Derogatory Omae list, was his fight changing how Sukuna viewed him and therefore the usage of Omae.

Omae (Complimentary)

Jogo

Jogo is never addressed by name, Sukuna never asks for it and refers to him as Cursed Spirit throughout their interactions. This seems more in line with something Sukuna does to someone he dislikes, however, he bothered with seeing Jogo off into the afterlife to gain a better understanding of him.

When Sukuna learns that Jogo and his friends wanted to become human, he doesn’t mock their dream but their methodology. The criticisms he levies at Jogo are constructive. If Jogo wanted to obtain his goals he should’ve been more like Gojo and burned everything to the ground, etc.

Sukuna goes onto complimenting Jogo using Omae, ending on the iconic, “Stand proud, you’re strong.”

If this is enough to move Jogo to tears, the Omae here unlikely to be meant as something rude. This shows that Sukuna is capable of using Omae in a friendly manner and that the intent behind it can change with the same character over time.

Fushiguro Megumi

Before Sukuna realizes Megumi's potential with Mahoraga he is still quite friendly with him compared to other characters. (As friendly as you can get beating the life out of someone that is.) He compliments his Cursed Technique (CT) and shows interest in his internal logical as he tries to teach him how to be a better sorcerer. Omae is used as he does this.

When he senses Mahoraga, he starts calling Megumi by his full name, which is the most respectful way to directly address someone in Japanese. I'm pretty sure the Omae he uses from the start is well-meaning. It should be noted that he stops using you pronouns for Megumi after this, upping the ante when it comes to showing respect for him. (Outside of murdering his sister and caretaker with his body you know.)

Mahoraga

When Sukuna first fights Mahoraga, he avoids using you pronouns entirely. He has fun and very much values its strength so this is definitely a show of respect. The only time Sukuna uses a you pronoun for Mahoraga is during his fight with Gojo. He uses Omae after addressing Mahoraga by name. "You (Omae) are not Fushiguro Megumi's shadow, you're mine."

I'm pretty confident the Omae is friendly here, albeit very possessive. It almost reads like Sukuna's composure slightly breaking to show his excitement. His manner of speech does seem to get rougher the more into a fight he gets, and so far the wildest we've seen him is with Mahoraga and Maki.

Zenin Maki

Sukuna has yet to address Maki by name. He calls her The Woman when thinks about her or speaks of her to other people. However, since meeting her in Ch 215, he has always been impressed with her. Sukuna has not once insulted her prowess and has exclusively complimented her, just like Mahoraga. He dodges using you pronouns with her, a sign of respect, until he starts flipping out over her in Ch 253.

Similar to Mahoraga, his excitement appears to have made his manner of speech deteriorate. Combined with those expressions, the Omae usage here can’t possibly be coming from a place of hatred. Sukuna seems to like people similar to himself and Maki did “eat” her twin to gain power. She rejected her fate as a twin to survive. I think Sukuna recognizes that and admires it immensely.

Omae (Unknown)

Ishigori Ryu

When Sukuna first tries to kill Ryu, he doesn’t die. This impresses him so much that he apologizes for taking him lightly. The Omae he uses while doing this is probably complimentary.

However, Sukuna is kind of a dick and not above sarcasm. He doesn’t ask for Ryu’s name and doesn’t bother watching him die like he does with most other named characters. And if you noticed, he tried cutting him into 3 pieces like he did with the Finger Bearer to gauge his strength. That cursed spirit is barely above Yuji on Sukuna’s tolerance scale. I’m not sure if he’s being genuine here.

Okkotsu Yuta

Before Yuta takes over Gojo’s body, Sukuna doesn’t seem impressed with him. He doesn’t address him by name and uses the nomer Cursed Brat when thinking of him. Being called a Brat puts him on the same level as Yuji. I think the Omae here is derogatory.

He does seem to enjoy fighting Rika so there’s a little more respect than what he has for Yuji. But prior to Ch 261? I think he means it in a rude way.

Similar to Ryu, Yuta got Sukuna to apologize to him after impressing him. But unlike Ryu, Sukuna makes direct eye contact with Yuta and addresses him by name. The excitement on his face is almost identical to what he had for Maki. If Sukuna continues to use Omae for Yuta, it will be complementary. Especially since his internal dialogue now uses Okkotsu Yuta in the same way he uses Fushiguro Megumi.

For reasons I’ll get into, there’s also a strong chance Sukuna might swap to Kisama for Yuta. And if he does, it’ll be very significant.

Kisama

In a different post, I proposed that because Sukuna is old and hates Yuji the most, who he exclusively uses Omae with, that his usage of Kisama with Gojo is the formal version. But after learning that Sukuna uses Kisama with Yorozu and Kashimo, I want to reevaluate that interpretation.

Uraume using Kisama as an insult towards Gojo means that Sukuna is aware of and therefore capable of using the polite and hostile versions. If this is because of vessel memories or both meanings being present in Heian era I don't know. Regardless, just like Omae, additional context will be needed to determine which way he means it.

Yorozu

That's surprising, Sukuna is using Kisama with Yorozu when he has otherwise demonstrated that his usage of it with Gojo is formal. Does that mean he secretly likes her? Sukuna outwardly despises Yorozu, so it wouldn't be wrong to read his Kisama with her as hostile. Does that mean he hates her more than Yuji? Does that mean he hates Gojo?

Let's start with how he greets her. Sukuna initially uses Omae and addresses Yorozu by her name with a slight smile. All signs that his Omae is further towards friendliness than hostility even though he's here to kill her. (Sukuna communicates with violence this is normal for him.)

But the moment she brings up love? Sukuna swaps to Kisama. He uses it to insult her love too.

Sukuna is not showing respect here, he is actively being hostile with this use of Kisama. Of all characters, Yorozu would be the one who reads into Sukuna's words the most if it would frame things more romantically. The fact she sees this pronoun change as a part of the rejection and pursues him harder further supports this reading.

As she's dying Sukuna switches back to Omae. This can be read as him believing he's effectively told Yorozu to piss off with the love talk and is being a little nicer as she passes. It wouldn't be out of character for him to do this.

Still, he's insulting her CT and lack of battle intellect. She's definitely not amongst the likes of Jogo. Yorozu reads into his parting words as affection anyways and this is how Sukuna feels about that.

I'm comfortable marking down Sukuna's use of Kisama with Yorozu as one of disrespect, and Omae as slightly derogatory.

Kashimo

For Kashimo, Sukuna exclusively uses Kisama when addressing him. Now that would seem a bit sus given the exclusivity, but once again, context is everything. What separates Kashimo from everyone else he uses Kisama with is Sukuna's refusal to know or even speak his name. And if he checked Culling Game player names prior as a participant, this is pretty significant.

When Sukuna really likes someone, he addresses them by their full name, if possible. In fact, he pauses his fight with Higuruma to ensure he got his name correctly.

No such thing occurs for Kashimo. Additionally, he brings up love, which Yorozu has established as something that makes Sukuna more hostile. His entire love speech uses nothing but Kisama and Sukuna goes from cordial to visibly irritated. There's a strong chance he meant it in the piss off way.

As an aside, Kashimo first addresses Sukuna with Omae at the start of their battle and switches to あんた (Anta) when they discuss love and satisfaction 満足 (Manzoku).

Now this fascinates me because Anta is a contraction of Anata. It usually indicates the lack of class in the speaker, but is otherwise used just like Anata. Since Kashimo is talking about love and uses Omae for everyone else, this reads as Kashimo hitting on Sukuna. (In other words: Are you, dear, satisfied?)

And this is Sukuna's response to that.

Rejection.

I'm mostly comfortable marking this down as a hostile use of Kisama. Not sure if this means Sukuna hates Kashimo more than Yuji though. They did have a civilized conversation that wasn't exclusively insults. The worst Sukuna called him was greedy, and he briefly expressed annoyance with the loudness of his CT. It’s not like Yorozu where he mocked every aspect of it and her love to the end. He humored the loved talk even though it seemed to make him miserable. Not really sure what to do with this.

Gojo Satoru

Well, now that I know Sukuna is aware of the hostile meaning, there is a good chance when he promised to kill Gojo he meant it in the piss off way for humiliating him earlier. He didn't bother addressing Gojo by his full name despite knowing it at that point.

If Jogo showed us that Sukuna’s use of Omae can change over time, this means that his use of Kisama is capable of evolving too. That being said, it is still pretty confusing when it comes to Gojo because Sukuna combines his hostile and friendly mannerisms at the same time.

The Gojo fish speech showcases this frankly bizarre contradiction the best. He addresses Gojo by his full name and then insults him for being a nameless fish with the use of Kisama.

Prior to this scene, Sukuna has been thinking of him and speaking to other characters of him as Gojo Satoru. When Sukuna thinks about Yuji? His inner dialogue keeps calling him Brat. Maki, who he likes, is just The Woman (so far). If someone is nameless to Sukuna, they stay just that—nameless. He’s blatantly lying about how he views Gojo here and I have no idea why.

What’s even weirder is that for a single instance, Sukuna swaps to Omae for Gojo during their fight. The usage of Omae appears to be playful in this context as Sukuna uses an English word alongside it.

If you didn't know, it's cool to use English words in Japanese. Randomly sprinkling them in is something youths like to do a lot. Gojo himself is one of the people who does this. Not just in normal speech, but specifically when he’s engaging in “play” with other sorcerers.

What’s weird about Sukuna doing this to Gojo is the fact that English didn’t make it to Japan until the 1600s. Sukuna very much speaks like a weird out of touch old man from the wrong century. To my knowledge, (correct me if I’m wrong) he hasn’t used English like this prior.

Omae is the go-to you pronoun Gojo uses for most people. He also uses English when engaging in sorcery “play”. This almost seems like Sukuna is mimicking Gojo’s style of speech as either a form of flattery or as an insult (most likely flattery given that he is still copying Gojo's moves obsessively). Regardless, Gojo seems to pick up on Sukuna being playful since this is his response.

From his perspective, the guy calling him Kisama (aka you bastard) has started calling him Omae (you, but neutral), which would come across as Sukuna deliberately being more respectful towards him. It seems to put Gojo in such a good mood that loverboy Kashimo looks at this and goes:

Which starts to make me wonder. Did Sukuna mean Omae in the Anata way? After all, the previous chapter ended on this:

It ended on Sukuna thinking of Gojo as Anata. This fight can be framed as a date too, so it’s really sus that Sukuna swapped to Omae for an event that can be read as romantic.

The only reason I'm looking so closely at this usage is because it's sandwiched between Kisamas. It stands out enough for Gojo of all people to notice. To him it signified that Sukuna’s view of him had changed. That probably means this Omae is telling us something about Sukuna’s character.

Surrounding this Omae is the use of Kisama in the kill context a total of 8 times. Either as "I'm going to kill you." or "This is how I killed you." (Fish speech not included in this collage.)

What stands out to me compared to other characters is how happy Sukuna looks while describing how he’ll get past Infinity. It’s so persistent and detailed sometimes... (To be fair he did spend 6 months on this.)

The use of Kisama with "You cleared my skies." is definitely the respectful way. He addresses Gojo by name with a happy expression while showering him in praise.

The rest of the Kisamas? I don’t know. You could read it either way and it's not being used in the same way for Yorozu and Kashimo. The takeaway here is that Sukuna doesn’t usually use this pronoun, which means it’s significant when he does.

What did Sukuna mean by this?

The problem, once again, is Sukuna priming others to read him a certain way. Way back when Sukuna and Gojo first met? Probably hostile. During their rematch? Kisama was coupled with contradictory insults and/or death threats up until the very last second. And that still doesn’t explain the Omae.

He only used Kisama for Kashimo. Why did he briefly swap to Omae for Gojo? He swapped to Omae for Yorozu as she died. Why did he swap in the middle of their fight instead of the end for Gojo?

And this still doesn't address the massive elephant in the room—Sukuna only using Kisama for Yorozu and Kashimo because they had the audacity to bring up love to him. Gojo didn't try to do that. Not once. The only time the word "love" has explicitly come out of his mouth to another character was when he told Yuta love was the most twisted curse of all. What does this mean? Is this implying Sukuna has associated Gojo with love from the start? Am I reading too much into this pronoun usage?

One of the most prominent themes of JJK is love being a curse. Whether its Yuji's love for other people driving him forward after they die or Gojo's love for Geto screwing everything up. Yuta's entire deal is him cursing a loved one into a semi-immortal monster creature. It would not be out of the ballpark to have the main antagonist motivated by a very fudged up obsessive love in the same way Kenjaku's parental love speedruns Mommy and Daddy issues at the same time.

Yuta fighting Sukuna in Gojo’s body is significant for all these reasons. Sukuna is either going to stick to Omae, or he’s going to start using Kisama. With how happy he is at seeing Yugo, it’ll be meant positively.

If he keeps using Omae that’s not too weird. That’s normal Sukuna behavior. If he swaps to Kisama when it has been strongly suggested that in 2/3 instances it’s in relation to love… I’m going to be sus on why he’s using it for The Love is the Most Twisted Curse of All Poster Child, Yuta, who is piloting Gojo’s body.

#cactus yaps #I'm being gaslight by Greg Arbuckle.#This is like the 3rd time that examining Sukuna's relationships has driven me mad.#He's so finicky with how he treats others. But there are patterns.#Straight up the headache I'm getting from this is similar to how Umineko fried my brain until it all collapsed into the answer.#I feel like whatever the hell happens with Sukuna vs Yugo will confirm or deny this all.#I'm thinking Sukuna will eat Yugo for his 20th finger. Or he will forcefeed himself to Yugo for Gojo's body and the 20th finger.#If he does either of those things I'm going to start calling him slurs (affectionate).#Gojo is Sukuna's special something. That I can say for sure.#ryomen sukuna #sukugo #jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers

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