#happy dhimmi

[weemietime]

As a Muslim and someone who has studied the religious history of Abrahamic faiths, I can say that this statement (“It is not racist to acknowledge that Islam is foundationally taken from Jewish texts and histories, which have been misinterpreted and abused to justify antisemitic violence. It is not racist to hold Islam accountable for the aspects of Manifest Destiny that pervade its evangelical arm.”) is completely wrong and Islamophobic for several reasons:

Twisting Islam’s Origins: Saying Islam is “taken from Jewish texts” is not just false, it oversimplifies the entire religion. Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, shares some stories and figures but is its own faith with the Qur’an as its source. Claiming it’s just a rip-off disrespects the entire foundation of Islam and its followers.

Blaming Islam for Antisemitism: Linking Islam to antisemitic violence is totally off base. Antisemitism comes mainly from European history—from the Inquisition to the Holocaust. Pinning it on Islam not only ignores the facts, it feeds into harmful stereotypes. There have been plenty of examples in history where Jews and Muslims lived in peace, like during the Golden Age of Spain.

Wrong Comparison with “Manifest Destiny”: Comparing Islamic missionary work (dawah) to “Manifest Destiny” is way out of line. Manifest Destiny was about colonization and land theft in the U.S., leading to the killing and displacement of Native Americans. Islam doesn’t have anything close to that—saying otherwise is just fear-mongering.

Islamophobia Wrapped Up: This whole argument is just a sneaky way of pushing Islamophobic ideas. It paints Islam as a violent, imperialistic religion, which is a racist stereotype. Blaming an entire faith for certain things is no different from holding all Christians responsible for the Crusades or colonialism—it’s ignorant and harmful.

Flat-Out Wrong History: Saying Islam “misuses” Jewish texts to justify violence is pure fiction. Sure, there’s been conflict in history, but Islam doesn’t teach or promote violence against Jews. This is just a lazy way to spread hate and fuel division.

In short, ur statement is just full of historical errors and prejudice, twisting facts to push an anti-Islam agenda. It’s not just wrong—it’s toxic and divisive.

it oversimplifies the entire religion. Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, shares some stories and figures but is its own faith with the Qur’an as its source.

And the Qur'an states that the Torah was corrupted, and positions itself as the correct version. Yes, it is an appropriation of our religious traditions. Acknowledging this is not Islamophobic, anymore than acknowledging the Crusades is Christophobic.

Linking Islam to antisemitic violence is totally off base. Antisemitism comes mainly from European history—from the Inquisition to the Holocaust. Pinning it on Islam not only ignores the facts, it feeds into harmful stereotypes. There have been plenty of examples in history where Jews and Muslims lived in peace, like during the Golden Age of Spain.

No. This is another antisemitic canard, the idea that Muslims treated Jews well in the Middle East, known as the "happy dhimmi." It is a lie, Jews were always historically oppressed in Arab countries. Including the Golden Age of Spain.

Saying Islam “misuses” Jewish texts to justify violence is pure fiction

It is absolutely not fiction.

Manifest Destiny was about colonization and land theft in the U.S.,

I was using this term in an allegorical/figurative way, I was not saying it is the same exact thing. I was drawing parallels between Christian evangelism and Islamic evangelism.

It paints Islam as a violent, imperialistic religion

Islam, like Christianity, has a violent and imperialistic history. Judaism has its share of violent history as well. It is disrespectful to pretend otherwise.

[eretzyisrael]

by Eunice G. Pollack and Stephen H. Norwood

Many Arabs stressed that even before "Zionist ... pretensions" threatened the "happy relationship" between Muslims and Jews, it had been disrupted by the imposition of European colonial rule.[13] They informed their Western audiences that Jews had "enjoyed all the privileges and rights of citizenship" before colonialism introduced an "artificial separation" between Muslim and Jew. A Moroccan political leader insisted that for this reason the Jews had "welcomed" the overthrow of colonial rule and the return of "Arabization" and the establishment of the independent Muslim nation.[14]

Contrary to the Arabs' contentions, however, it was the colonial powers that had extended citizenship (e.g., Algeria in 1870), equality or near-equality (e.g., the French Protectorate in Morocco, 1912–1956) to the Jews, liberating them at last from their status as subjugated, humiliated dhimmis, and ending the oppressive jizya, the tribute always exacted by the Muslims. Thus Jews had strongly endorsed the colonial presence, generally embracing modern European education and culture.[15] It was under British occupation (1882–1922) that Jews in Egypt felt safest. Notably, under Islamic rule, it was only the Ottoman Empire that, in an effort to secure European support—and modern weapons—issued an Imperial Edict (1856) that, in theory, extended equal rights to all its subjects. In practice, however, Ottoman governors (pashas) confined themselves to collecting taxes, while local rulers and the populace—for example, the Mamluks in Egypt—continued to persecute, pillage, and impose additional "heavy levies" on the Jews. Thus most Jews not only supported European colonial rule, but feared the independence movements, with the threat of return to their earlier subordinate "social, political and economic" positions.[16]

Islamic Myths about Jews' Inherent Traits

Arab commentators readily dismissed over two centuries of travelers' accounts and investigative reports that belied their claims about the conditions and contentment of Jews under Islamic rule. They simply turned to another hoary myth in order to protect their current fable. The Arabs discarded all the testimony that contradicted their narrative, explaining that it had been derived largely from Jews, whom the Qur'an characterized as congenitally deceitful, never to be trusted.[17]

At times, political and religious leaders conceded that the Jews in Muslim lands had been relentlessly subjugated, relying on another large cache of myths, drawn or extrapolated from the Qur'an, to sanctify their abasement of those they now identified as "the dogs of humanity." Indeed, from the earliest years of Islam, Muslims had understood that "their deadliest enemies were the Jews."[19] They were the only people cursed in the Qur'an, whom Allah had promised "degradation in this world and a mighty chastisement in the next world." Muslim theologians recognized that the Jews were "like germs of a malignant disease where one germ is sufficient to eliminate an entire nation." But, they taught, "the Holy Qur'an ... constitutes the microscope through which we can see the pests and poisons that reside in their minds and hearts." Thanks to Qur'anic lessons on how to subdue the Jews, the Muslims were "the only people on earth to tolerate them" in their midst.[20]

Citing the Qur'an, prominent Muslim educators portrayed the Jews as driven throughout their history to bring "blind sedition ... and intrigue in any land or community where they happened to live." Some suggested that this was likely "why the Israelites ... were so detested by all surrounding tribes."[21] Others explained that "the Jews themselves have not changed" because, "according to ... their false Torah," they "are required to stir war with their neighbors once they have the opportunity to do so." Some added that the Jews often preferred to deploy "conspiracies, plots, intrigues [and] sedition" because they were inherently "cowards and could not openly face their enemy."[22]

Not acknowledging a contradiction, many spokesmen insisted that "the Jews have always been criminal aggressors." Jews claim that they are victims, "subjected [throughout] their long history" to "oppression and persecution" "for no other reason than their being followers of Moses." In truth, "the hatred felt by various peoples ... for Jews was not due to their belief, but their ... unchangeable behavior, always based on exploitation, ingratitude and evil-doing in return for kindness." That is, the "criminal aggressors" only deceptively identify as innocent victims.[23] Educators taught that the Jews are "avaricious, ruthless, cruel, hypocritical and revengeful. These traits govern their lives." They point out that the Qur'an warned that, if permitted, the Jews would "become great tyrants." They conclude: "No good is expected of them unless they live under the aegis of Islam as loyal and obedient subjects." Then the Muslims "will treat them ... tolerantly." "Islamic tolerance is," after all, in complete contrast to "Jewish intolerance and cruelty."[24]

[tzipporahs-well]

While OSP's videos are generally very good, they do fall a bit into the "Happy Dhimmi" myth.

Blue has an unfortunate tendency to gloss over Muslim antisemitism, and many of the wrongs of the Ottoman Empire.

Yes I would absolutely agree with that. I think some of it was addressed in the Maimonides (video made 3 years ago) and Medieval Spain and Al-Andalusia videos (5 years ago) where more fundamentalist Muslims (Almoravids and Almohads) started taking over, but there is still an overall sunny-ish outlook.

I think one of the problems is that it is a very prevalent myth that has been spread for many years where I see even history books pushing it (AP world history textbook looking at you) and academia debating if it was really that bad or if even The Pact of Umar was heavily enforced/strictly followed (it was really bad and saw variable enforcement dependent on the ruler’s whim).

Even our own history books pushed it, at least in the 19th century (see Heinrich Graetz) and/or play the comparison game (“it was not as bad as in Xtian lands.”) In the history book of A Short History of the Jews by Raymond P. Scheindlin (generally a good book; a book I had to read for my conversion), there is more about the “prosperous time” and our accomplishments in the chapter “The Jews in the Islamic World” (632 CE to 1500 CE) compared to the more negative stuff. Only later does it discuss how life for Jews severely deteriorated under Muslim rule even though dhimmi status was by in no way good. The fact that Jewish life in medieval Spain is even called the Sephardic Golden Age and a Sephardic Silver Age at all emphasizes how much our history…sucked.

I think one reason Jewish sources try to focus on “the good” is cultural. We are encouraged to look for and focus on the good even when our circumstances really suck. But when it is not based in truth, that’s where the problem lies.

We have to be willing to look our true history in the eye: the good and the bad. The way I see our dhimmi status in Muslim lands: we made the best of a bad situation where all options around us weren’t great especially by modern standards. We accomplished great things, but we still faced the yoke of oppressive dhimmitude.

The problem comes from when “not as bad as” (relative for the time period where treatment of Jews generally sucked and treatment varied dependent on state and ruler) turns into “good actually” especially in modern lenses, which is categorically untrue. If anything, the pattern of Jewish history in Muslim-ruled lands was eerily similar to the Xtian one (Aish). Jews were invited for a little bit as second class citizens under the ruler’s “protection.” Then when they got tired of us or we became too comfortable/“too big for our britches”, we got kicked out or killed…again.

At the very least, Muslim oppression of Jews was briefly touched on in the OSP summary video. It is an imperfect video while still better than certain other summary views on the topic.

Still, I do wish that the happy dhimmi myth was busted more.

[al-kol-eleh]

Hussain Abdul-Hussain

[former-leftist-jew]

Arab Muslim ethnostates are fine, tho.

You know they speak Arabic in Morroco for the same reason they speak French in Canada, right?

Which makes sense, given Arab Muslims' violent, religious, colonial history.

Source: @joshmayfieldartist on Instagram

[scp-1296]

This person is claiming to be an Egyptian Palestinian Jew, who emigrated to New York by boat 20 years ago and prays five times a day.

I glanced at one of their other posts and they're also big fans of Holocaust Inversion and the Happy Dhimmi narrative, which. Unsurprising.

[hilacopter]

I think one of the things that annoys me the most about the anti Israel and anti Zionist arguments in general is like…

“Israel is illegal nation” (and the like etc) which, how are we presuming legality here? On which laws?

By who laws? The governments that voted to it? Making it legal? While not how most of the countries got established (getting voted on) the land in the 1948 plan (which the Arabs living on the land rejected) that was supposed to be Jewish there was already a Jewish population living there, with the lands they bought from their money. Never mind the fact that some of the Jews never left the land!

Gd law? Okay, let’s go by the Jewish gd since we talking about the Middle East. We weren’t banished from the land of Israel in the Torah by gd, but by the Romans who took over the land. I don’t recall any mention of it being gd who banished us.

So I don’t understand how Israel is illegal?

Jews, were already there. Some never left, some bought land there with their own money.

And like, why a Palestinian family that moved in 1930 to the land of the than British mandate of Palestine from let’s say Iraq have more rights to the land than the Jewish family who was living there for countries before them?

Bottom line, i just want to hear your thoughts on the matter and stuff.

-a tired and traumatized Israeli Jew that just want everything to end and for the hostages to be back home and is tired of hypocrisy

I think when they say that they mean international law, not that they really know what they're talking about. The recent ICJ ruling had people going "SeE ThIS Is PrOOf IsNOTreAl is aN iLLeGal ApARtHeid StaTe" when the ruling only referred to the West Bank settlements being illegal which, yeah, but they were acting like it referred to the whole of Israel (my guess is some people phrased it that way on purpose and the herd, not wanting to bother with pesky fact-checking, ate it up). Also as you said literally a lot of land in Israel was bought by Jews with money before the state was even established, which is something I barely see even people here in the jumblr space bring up. It's weird to me, I feel like that makes for a better argument against a pro-palestinian who'd rather die than acknowledge Jews being indigenous to the levant.

As for God's law I usually stay out of religious discussion because I am very secular. Though these people often say that Jews aren't indigenous to the levant and we're just going off of the bible (despite there being a ton of actual historical evidence) so I think they couldn't give less of a shit about religious law and religion in general (unless it's Islam because a lot of them really have a case of raging Islamophilia). I don't know barely anything about the Quran so I don't know Israel's validity by it's standards. If anyone with more religious knowledge than me wants to add then go ahead.

Why does that Palestinian family have more rights to the land than Jews who have been living them for centuries before? I wrote this again as a rethorical question because I wanted to try and answer from the average idiot goy's perspective, but as soon as I tried to formulate an argument in their shoes it fell apart. Their definition of indigeneity when it comes to this conflict is very flawed and simply put I think they'd rather base it on who's more oppressed and exotic to them than acknowledge the complicated history of the levant and the various groups of people who have and do live in it, their simple black and white narrative is just sooo much more convenient after all. They'd probably say that the Jewish family has a right to the land under Palestinian rule and resort to the happy dhimmi narrative.

I get that last part anon. The hypocrisy and double standards are getting on my nerves. But we gotta chin up because remember that we will outlive them. The hostages will come home as well, one way or another. !עם ישראל חי

[jewreallythinkthat]

You are so so close to understanding…. So who expelled Jews from where they were (perdominantly in Europe?) that’s right Europe. Yes there are Jews everywhere but they were living peacefully and happy in Arab countries, Europe was the problem. Yet somehow Arabs are the problem when Jews are given the Palestinian land when it is not the British to give away. So there is no such thing as is**lie food. It’s stolen and Arab food.

We were slaughtered in Europe in the most industrialised genocide in history. You might also be interested to know that in Russia, they banned Jews from leaving (so they could continue abusing them at home instead, what fun what fun).

There's also lists of massacres perpetrated against the Jews across the middle east. I wouldn't say that was "happy" would you?

Also a reminder, no group "owns" a type of food with exclusivity rights.

Jews did not live "peacefully and happy" in Arab lands. They literally had to pay dhimmi tax for not being Muslim to protect them from being persecuted for not being Muslim. That's a protection racket, and literally discrimination against an ethnic group - or do you think it's ok for minority groups to have to pay extra tax to avoid being harmed?

I don't actually have any issues with Arabs because why would I? They're literally just another group of people who live in the SWANA region (although as a reminder, they're named for the Arabian Peninsula, so places like Algeria and Morocco being Arab countries is literally a product of historical colonialism and imperialism.) I don't hold the people there today accountable for that because I'm not one to judge something from literally 1400 years ago by today's standards, but it is important to note that the effect of these empires is still felt today by minority communities across the region).

European antisemitism is based on the "Jews killed jesus" lie, and a healthy dash of blood libel. Antisemitism in the Middle East is very different.

The UN created modern day Israel. Historically Israel has been around for thousands of year. The Romans created what has become known as Palestine to punish the Jews who lived there for rebelling, to try and cut off our Indiginous links to the land.

You, a random anonymous person, don't get to choose a convenient time to start counting from for indigineity just to fit your argument. I am pro two state solution. The original UN divide of the land was two state solution to let the Jews return home after being expelled from their homeland for so long.

[jewish-vents]

I’m Mizrachi on my mother’s side, both grandparents from the same tiny community too, and on my dad’s side a complicated mix of Sephardi and Ashkenazi— though the Ashkenazi stuff never reached me, so I don’t consider that a part of my cultural identity. And it kind of sucks

Being a Jew of mixed diasporas is so hard. A lot of the Mizrachi community isn’t super welcoming to Jews who aren’t wholly Mizrachi, and it makes me feel guilty if I ever don’t clarify that I’m ancestrally only on my mum’s side. Not much has stuck from my Sephardi side either, my grandpa was sixteen when he left Bulgaria in 1949 so he lived through it being allied with the Nazis, and I guess he wanted to leave a lot behind when he came to Israel. I consider myself partly Sephardi, but that’s it. I feel like I’m Mizrachi, even though it’s definitely different to other Mizrachim, but I’m not Sephardi. I don’t consider myself to have just Sephardi ancestry though, like I do with the Ashkie stuff. It’s like it’s actually part of my cultural identity to be part Sephardi, not part Sephardi, if that makes sense? Idk

To complicate things even more, I’m an Israeli but born and raised in the diaspora. My parents grew up in Israel, my grandma on my dad’s side and my grandpa on my mum’s were born in the mandate. My other grandad came to Israel at sixteen and my other grandma came at ten. My whole family’s Israeli, including me. But I’m still different from the ones who were born and raised. I’m stuck in this weird in between of Israeli and diaspora, where none of the communities and experiences outside of Israel fit me, but the experience of being raised in Israel doesn’t fit me either. It’s just a level of exhausting to tangle with that I get tired just thinking about it

My entire identity is so hard to deal with. I have too much and too little at the same time. I don’t feel comfortable claiming myself as anything because it just never feels like enough. It’s kind of messed up, but I’ve started trying to make my identity feel more whole and connected through the shared trauma and history of Dhimmi status that both my Mizrachi and Sephardi sides had to suffer with for centuries

I just really don’t know what to do, I feel so stuck. And I’ve never really met anyone else like me— even though my sister should be in the exact same position as me, but she doesn’t care about her ancestry at all and focuses on the present culture around her. The Jews that I’ve seen are all so whole, even the ones with mixed ancestry like me seem so congruent with that. And meanwhile I’m just here, a stupid disjointed mess. I’m so tired of feeling like this. I just want to be happy with my culture

.

[fdelopera]

Goyim really need to stop repeating the "happy Dhimmi" narrative.

Jews were forced into second-class Dhimmi status in Muslim countries, were forced to pay the Jizya (the tax for non-Muslims), and were at constant risk of pogroms from their Muslim neighbors. Jews were not "living in peace and harmony."

Even Maimonides, the great 12th century Jewish Torah scholar and philosopher, was forced to "convert" to Islam as a child in Cordoba, along with his family and many in his Jewish community. They did this because the Almohad Caliphate gave Jews in Cordoba a decree that they must either convert to Islam or be murdered. I say "convert" in quotes because it was later ruled that since Maimonides' conversion was coerced, he had not become an apostate from Judaism.

Maimonides escaped to Morocco and then spent time in the Holy Land during the Crusade years before traveling to Egypt, where he spent much of his life.

Even though Maimonides was a physician and a scholar, he was still a second-class citizen in Egypt.

Maimonides also knew that the West wasn't any better for Jews. He was personally invited by Richard the Lionheart, King of England, to come to England to be the King's physician (though he would have to live in the Jewish ghetto), but Maimonides turned down this offer. The Devil you know is often better than the Devil you don't.

So while it's true there were certain places and times where it was safer to be a Jew in the Muslim world than in Christendom, we Jews were always second-class citizens no matter where we went.

Tl;dr yes, depending on who the ruler was, it was sometimes better to be a second-class citizen (subjected to extra taxes and to pogroms) in certain Muslim-controlled lands like Egypt than it was to be rounded up and mass murdered in the Holy Roman Empire of Europe...

But is that really a fair comparison? No. It is just a choice between a "lesser of two evils."

said this in a comment but as a non ashki jew, the way y’all (gentiles) talk abt ashkenazi jews is really fucking weird. you’re not being a savior to non ashkenazi jews or to black and brown jews (some of whom are ashkenazi) by painting ashkenazi jews as this nefarious group of elites plotting against everyone. the antisemitism doesn’t cancel out just because you’re targeting the group you perceive to be the “white ones.”

[notetaeker]

Stop promoting the "Happy dhimmi" myth.

Good morning,

I’m welcome to discussion if you provide things to discuss. Please bring some historical or legislation for us to look through and not just random unsubstantiated commands.

If someone brings evidence and can convince me about the truth, then I am willing to accept it, and I hope that you are that way too. But that is something that is more likely to happen through discussion than by telling someone to stop doing something fhfjdjdk

And if you don’t want to do research then you can always ask lol I’m happy to point you in the right direction because I have done my research. I never post or say anything about history especially without researching it first.

[newnitz]

We aren't afraid of being treated like Muslims, Arabs or Palestinians. We're afraid of being treated like stateless Jews have always been treated.

I keep seeing this myth that everything was hunky dory in the Middle East before Israel showed up, and this asinine idea that the only reason anyone would have misgivings about the safety of Jews in a theoretical one-state solution is out of racism against Arabs.

This so deeply rooted in an EMBARRASSING lack of historical knowledge that it honestly makes me want to pull my hair out. I am so fucking sick of people who do not do even the barest, most basic historical understanding of the history of Israel or of Palestine, or of Jewish history broadly or specifically in the Middle East, nonetheless making wildly popular and confidently incorrect posts about what they've heard other Tumblr and TikTok dipshits spout.

[hero-israel]

Confederates: we lived in peace and happiness with our slaves before the evil northerners came down and took them from us and brainwashed them with thoughts of rebellion.

Palestinians: we lived in peace and happiness with our dhimmis— I mean Jewish friends before the evil diaspora Jews and British came in and convinced them they could be our equals and have self determination for themselves instead.

The South, er, West Bank shall rise again!

[socialjusticefail]

This piece talks about a myth of a group of people being happy about their situation. This focuses on Jim Crow south and Jews under Muslims in the Middle East before the Balfour Declaration.

[former-leftist-jew]

@rassanharas also, can you please explain the Jaffa riots of 1921 and the Hebron Massacre of 1929 and the Farhud in Bagdad of 1941?

Furthermore, do you see any parallels between Uncle Tom and the Happy Dhimmi Myth: Re-imagining Subjugation in the Islamic World and the Antebellum South?

I cannot even begin to articulate how much I want every single person on Earth to see this