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youremyheaven · 1 year ago

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The Spectrum of Femininity & Cancer Rashi: A Study

in my previous posts, i had delved into why Punarvasu & Pushya women are often considered the feminine ideal and the various archetypes they present on the screen and in real life (look out for more posts regarding the same!!) and i had mentioned a little bit about the feminine spectrum as seen through nakshatras in the cancer rashi, in this post, im going to explore this further.

Cancer rashi consists of 3 nakshatras:

Punarvasu 20 degree gemini to 3 degree cancer

Pushya 3-16 degree cancer

Ashlesha- 16-29 degree cancer

Tropically Ashlesha is entirely Leo and the nakshatra of Ardra is sidereally entirely Gemini; this means only Punarvasu & Pushya remain in the Cancer rashi in both tropical and vedic systems.

We must understand the feminine journey through these nakshatras as they appear, so we will begin with;

Ardra

This nakshatra is associated with destruction and transformation. This nak's deity is Rudra, the most aggressive form of Lord Shiva. Ardra is associated with purification and renewal through demolition. it is also associated with storms and is symbolized by a teardrop.

The mythology of Ardra nakshatra can be briefly summarised as follows:

Lord Brahma desired his own daughter, and knowing this,the other celestial Gods were enraged and their collective fury gave birth to Rudra.

Rudra's purpose was to prevent this incestuous union, he thus slayed him but the other Gods felt regretful about the whole situation and disowned Rudra.

Rudra is heartbroken at this unjust and unfair treatment; his teardrops come down as thunderous storms.

Given this context, I have often noticed with Ardra women that they tend to be Gamines.

A Gamine is defined as a "young woman who is attractively boyish or possessing a mischievous boyish charm"

These natives tend to be slightly androgynous; there is a conflict between masculine and feminine energies.

The most famous Gamine of all time, Audrey Hepburn had Shatabhisha moon (another Rahu ruled nak).

I have already mentioned that Ingenues in cinema tend to be played by Rohini, Mrigashira, Punarvasu & Pushya natives, who also tend to possess Ingenue essence

However, although they're both youthful, Ingenue & Gamine essence are entirely distinct from each other.

Ingenue is pure yin, whereas Gamine is yang with a yin undercurrent. There is a hint of femininity; one that is not fully developed. It is NOT a mature, womanly, grown up energy but rather an adolescent, in the process of blossoming, kind.

Here are some Gamine (essence) celebs:

Ariana Grande- Ardra sun

Charli XcX- Ardra rising

Leslie Caron- Ardra sun conjunct mercury

Lea Seydoux, Ardra sun

Cyndi Lauper, Ardra sun

Aubrey Plaza, Ardra sun

Princess Diana, Ardra sun

Carly Simon, Ardra sun

Kristin Kreuk who is Ardra moon

Nicole Richie who is Ardra moon

Stella McCartney also Ardra moon

You can see how these women project a delicate, youthful boyish charm.

Rahu is a shadow planet, it does not have any light of its own and thus seeks to absorb light from other sources. This is a very Yin principle and thereby Rahu is the most feminine after Venus. However the feminine energy as we understand it through the nakshatras in Cancer rashi is not just about absorbing energy or holding energy but it is the ability to give and accommodate that Yin space internally. These natives can absorb energy but cannot retain it.

2. Punarvasu

these natives have weathered the storm of Ardra and now seek safety and shelter, hence why a common archetype Punarvasu women seem to play on screen is that of the Ingenue. the youthful, slightly naïve and clueless creature who has to be helped.

the main distinction between an ingenue and a gamine is the fact that the former is naive and innocent whereas the latter is mischievous and teasing. Many Punarvasu women possess an Ingenue essence;

Miranda Kerr, Punarvasu moon

Drew Barrymore, Punarvasu moon

Kristen Bell, Punarvasu sun

Karina, Punarvasu moon

Punarvasu women are known for their bubbly, effervescent personalities. wide-eyed and happy-go-lucky, these natives are usually very chirpy and charming. They're like the main lead in a romcom; very easy to like, deeply perceptive but endearingly clueless at the same time.

from the wide eyed, innocent ingenue, Punarvasu women mature into the Ideal Woman. it is well known that most Punarvasu women marry well, from Kate Middleton (Punarvasu moon) who married Prince William to Miranda Kerr (Punarvasu moon) who is married to the CEO of Snapchat.

another archetype that the Punarvasu woman represents is the Mother. they contain the vast abundance of the cosmos, they are natural givers and their deity is the Mother Goddess Aditi herself. the downside of this is that they can often be enablers; unnecessarily expending their empathy to those who do not deserve it.

Kris Jenner, probably the most famous mom of our times (lol) is a Punarvasu moon. besides Kylie, all her children tend to treat her poorly (Punarvasu being an enabler trope).

Sofia Vergara played one of the most well known fictional moms on TV. She has sun & moon in Punarvasu. even on the show, there are numerous instances where Gloria is taken for granted.

Morticia Addams was both the Trophy Wife/Ideal Woman and the best mom ever (if you've watched the movie, you'll know). She was played by Anjelica Huston who has Punarvasu sun

probably the most famous fictional mom, Maria from the Sound of Music is played by Julie Andrews has Ketu in Punarvasu

3. Pushya

after the abundance of Punarvasu, comes the restriction of Pushya, it concerns itself with holding energy. Punarvasu is ruled by Jupiter which allows for limitless expansion but Pushya is governed by the limitations of Saturn.

these women are highly desirable and much sought after, but its almost like they cant enjoy themselves too much. there are always certain terms that they have to live with. Saturn is structure and discipline, as well as karma and punishment, so it makes sense why these natives seem to live their lives experiencing abundance and lack, almost simultaneously.

in the movie Malena, the protagonist is a widow living alone in a small Italian town. she is desired by everyone; sexualised and even stalked. i had already talked about how Pushya/Punarvasu create women who are highly sought after by men.

the main dilemma in this movie rests on the fact that even though the whole town is obsessed with Malena, she does not benefit from it; she is dehumanized and subject to a lot of cruelty. a pitfall of being so desired is that, while others seem intrigued by Pushya, not everyone understands Pushya natives.

Malena is played by Monica Bellucci who has Pushya moon.

Paris Hilton, Pushya moon was born to riches, however she suffered horrific abuse as a teenager and struggled in her personal life for a very long time. Paris is the quintessential "poor little rich girl". She was subject to sexual and institutional violence but not many people see her in that light at all. Most people view her as a spoilt brat and an airhead.

fun fact, the character London Tipton from the show Suite Life of Zack & Cody was based on Paris Hilton. Tipton is also emotionally neglected by her father and lives alone in her family's hotel. Brenda Song who played London Tipton is a Pushya moon like Paris herself.

here's an excerpt from one of Paris Hilton's interviews:

The irony, she says now, is that she became this icon of licentiousness when she wasn’t even promiscuous. “I was portraying this sex-symbol vibe, but inside I did not feel that way at all. And I did not trust anyone because I had such huge walls that I built around my heart. I didn’t want to let anyone in, and I didn’t want to be hurt, so I didn’t want to ever give myself to someone.”

this to me is very Punarvasu & Pushya coded. these women are sexualised to the nth degree but they're usually sexually conservative and often have very few partners.

Selena Gomez, Pushya stellium (sun, venus & rising)

Selena is one of the wealthiest celebrities in the world and her cosmetics line is one of the most successful celebrity makeup ventures ever, however her personal life has always been troubled, from her chronic illness to her dating history and most recently, there has been disturbing news about how The Idol starring her ex, The Weeknd is heavily inspired by her life and struggles.

Selena is a highly desirable woman, she's been at the top of the game for so long but she's still discredited as a singer and not taken seriously and in recent years, her appearance has been ridiculed and was subject to horrible bodyshaming despite the fact that her struggle with her illness is well known. Pushya is known as a wealth giving nakshatra but it also subjects the native to a lot of struggles.

Celine Dion, Pushya rising

Celine Dion was 12 years old when she met 38 year old Rene Angelil, who would go on to become her manager and husband. It's only logical to assume that he groomed her but Dion's life has had many struggles, she grew up underprivileged and was recently diagnosed with a rare chronic illness.

in the movie Million Dollar Baby, Maggie is a poor waitress who trains and works very hard to become a boxer. however, she is critically injured and cannot fight again, her family proves to be selfish jerks and she meets with a tragic ending. This is a very cautionary Saturnian story of working hard, succeeding, and still meeting difficulties, representing the dark side of Saturn. Maggie is played by Hillary Swank who is Pushya Sun.

Angelina Jolie, Pushya rising

Jolie has had a very difficult life, she battled eating disorders, suicidal tendencies, self-harm, drug addiction and despite being a wealthy, desirable woman, struggles in her personal life (including TW domestic violence)

Jolie is another one of those celebrities who cant seem to catch a break. A highly desirable woman, wanted by everyone, but understood by very few.

Pushya gives the native the ability to hold vast amounts of energy but they're unable to expand it. They seem to face barriers and limitations that prevent them from expanding fully. The feminine energy here is one that has to work hard and discipline themselves. they cultivate grace intentionally. they have to strive to achieve emotional fulfillment. The giving feminine of Punarvasu becomes the restrained feminine in Pushya.

in Punarvasu, we saw the giving nature of the feminine, they seem to have an endless reservoir of compassion, empathy and yin energy. the downside of this is that they're easily taken advantage of, and they're too forgiving of others; their insistence on taking the high road means others who are less deserving get further ahead than them in shorter spans of time. but it is this refinement, and natural elan that makes them the "Ideal Woman". Jupiter's magnificence means that these women possess the kind of vast mental space others can't even conceive of; this creates intrigue as to how they never seem to run out of "energy" (i use this term in its spiritual sense).

in Pushya, we saw the restrained feminine, they work hard and strive to get where they are, however, they seem to operate within a box, they're the beautiful bird within a gilded cage. the reason why this nak is considered the height of femininity is because of the discipline it takes to wield the yin energy consciously and with reservation. Punarvasu seems to give to everyone without discrimination; she's the Celestial Mother but it is very crucial to learn how to discriminate and in Pushya, presided by Saturn, we learn to control and channel our femininity and yin energy in a discriminate manner. not everyone can have them, this makes them all the more appealing.

4. Ashlesha

the very last nak in the Cancer rashi and one which lies entirely in Cancer is Ashlesha. after the giving and holding stages of the feminine, in Ashlesha, we come to confront the dark feminine.

every peak is followed by a valley; in Pushya we reached the height of femininity and now there is a reversal almost, a return to girlhood and unrefined femininity.

there is a descension to darkness and there is a desire to return to the self and to exist for one's self. we've seen how Pushya women often lead difficult lives, now, in Ashlesha, femininity enters its villain era. Its done being treated unfairly and poorly, so in Ashlesha, we see the manifestation of the dark feminine.

Ashlesha is associated with tantra; ascending above the giving traditional feminine and embracing the demonic feminine.

Megan Fox, Ashlesha moon

Jennifer's Body depicts Ashlesha's unique feminine journey quite well. Jennifer is taken advantage of and almost sacrificed but in the process she gains supernatural powers and feasts on boys to maintain it. This trope of being abused, gaining power and using it to get back at people who caused their suffering or represent it is a very common Ashlesha trope.

Charlize Theron, Ashlesha Sun

in the movie Monster (based on a true story), Charlize plays a prostitute who is raped and abused; she in turn becomes a serial killer who kills her clients

This is a very common Ashlesha trope that I will explore more in future posts!!

the earliest a woman was unburdened was in girlhood but if you really think about it, girlhood was a time when you had no agency and no voice; a child is a powerless creature and has to wield their emotions to get by (by throwing tantrums, by being coy etc). children are expected to behave a certain way; they're rewarded for good behaviour and punished for bad. the burden of femininity is absent but with it goes feminine power. thus an Ashlesha native has to resort to other ways to wield their power. this is where the demonic feminine comes to play.

these individuals are self-contained because they have a tendency to think that they could be taken advantage of if they're too trusting. remember how little kids are warned? don't talk to strangers, don't go after the nice man offering candy. children are taught to be afraid and mistrusting, to be alert and cautious, for their own sake/safety.

this nakshatra's deity is Naga (a serpent God of the underworld) and if you think about how snakes are, they are creatures who are entirely limbless, they live on the ground, they rely on their intuition to sense danger, and their only defense is the venom they hold in their body, without which they're utterly helpless. but being highly poisonous, they can destroy any creature in an instant, no matter how big or strong the creature is. they cannot fight the way other animals do, they are not designed that way. this is true of Ashlesha natives as well. they have to be stealthy, secretive, cautious, and manipulative (the word manipulation is often interpreted negatively but even charisma is manipulation, so its all about how its wielded)

Ashlesha is Mercury ruled, mercury is a "eunuch" planet and is genderless. to me it represents the pre-pubescent stage where an individual has not yet attained sexual maturity; in this stage, the native is sexually curious, and wildly imaginative but both afraid and incapable of true intimacy.

Mercury is the smallest planet, therefore these natives do not have the vast emotional reservoir of say Punarvasu or Pushya (which is not to say they're not emotional) thus they're unable to give their energy to others. They're very picky and very deliberate with who they give their energy because they feel drained very easily. But what they lack in the emotional sphere they compensate with intellect. Mercury-ruled nakshatras always give the native raw natural intelligence. these natives are very smart.

Lana Del Rey is Ashlesha Moon. Early on in her career, she was accused of being fake & inauthentic. She sang about sadness and sugar daddies in a way that presented itself as an aesthetic and gave rise to the whole girlblogger/coquette community for whom she is the patron saint. Lana has moved on to other concepts with her albums but her influence over this community continues to stay. Her music heavily features an abusive figure, heavy doses of melancholy, and an unhealthy obsession with money & glamour, even though the subject matter is sad, she sets it up in the most theatrical of ways.

most importantly, she presents herself in her songs as this naïve, lost, perpetually sad, self-loathing creature, presenting the feminine in a way that it seldom is presented. this female gaze is what has made her soooo relatable to so many young girls and women.

in fact the coquette community itself is very Ashlesha coded imo, embracing girliness over womanliness, "gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss", "female manipulator", you name it, there is an undeniable Ashlesha influence at play, including the fact that many of its figureheads have Ashlesha placements.

Vera Farmiga, Ashlesha Sun played Norma in Bates Motel. both her character and the show itself feature many Ashlesha tropes.

Norma is a very possessive, overprotective mother (Cancer women have complicated relationships with their mothers, this manifests in the most toxic way in Ashlesha), here the Ashlesha native plays the Mother and (spoiler alert) her son develops an alternate personality that is an extension of Mother, killing anyone he thinks could pose a threat to their relationship. Norma grew up in an abusive home and faces abuse at the hands of men all her life. The entire show revolves around this dysfunctional Mother-Son relationship with the son embodying his Mother.

Cancer rashi nakshatras are passive by nature and this is taken to new lengths in Ashlesha which is the concluding Cancer nakshatra. these natives cannot seem to do things in a straightforward way, ruled by the smallest planet Mercury which governs the intellect, these natives achieve whatever they want by playing mind games (if unevolved) or by using their intellect (if evolved).

The reason Jupiter is known for always taking the high road is because it has the expansiveness to do so. Mercury gives very little space inwardly so they have to be emotionally conservative and frugal. This is why they seem manipulative to others; they have to use their limited resources to achieve what they want, they cannot "give endlessly".

its interesting how Cancer rashi concludes itself in a Mercury ruled nak since Cancer is Moon ruled and feminine and Mercury is a "eunuch" planet and without gender. The feminine journey had its seeds in the feminine but malefic nakshatra of Ardra; which contributes to the androgyny of these natives (primarily yang but with a hint of yin), developing into the Ingenue (or Maiden) and Mother in Punarvasu, both of whom give endlessly because of naivete and later because of compassion, then learning restraint & discrimination in Pushya (the height of femininity) where natives experience abundance but cannot indulge in it fully ( Saturn teaching discipline). In Ashlesha, we see the dark feminine, rising above everything a woman should "ideally" be. There is nothing "ideal" about Ashlesha, it represents that which is considered taboo, it is an outcast nakshatra and depicts raw, unrefined femininity.

Excluding Rahu ruled Ardra, the Cancer rashi spans nakshatras ruled by Jupiter, Saturn and concludes in Mercury. Both Jupiter & Saturn are masculine planets and Mercury is an eunuch planet. Feminine energy at its most expansive is Punarvasu and at its height, its in Saturn, and its "valley" venturing into its darkness is Mercury which rules the mind. This is a very interesting journey, representative of an experience most women are familiar with; women are expected to be givers, but later, with experience learn how to discriminate with their giving and ultimately decide to put themselves first and be, selectively selfish.

I hope this was interesting<33

#vedic astro notes #vedic astrology #astrology observations #sidereal astrology #astrology notes #astro observations #astro notes #nakshatras #astrology #astroblr #ashlesha #punarvasu #cancer #pushya #ardra

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aranyaani · 15 days ago

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just saw some western twitter post this photo and the comments are full of white people surprised at how voluptuous the idol is and it's so jarring to see their reaction to this compared how Indian men react

Indian men have grown up seeing these types of sculptures literally everywhere and they have never reacted like this. they just appreciate the art and move on. these western guys are still working on monkey brain

like if you see ancient sculptures of shiva and parvati, you'll see that shiva is always holding parvati's breast but nobody sees that as weird

#desiblr #india #art #indian art #desi tag #desi posting

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lotusarchon · 1 month ago

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I had to make a whole google doc to sort my thoughts on this, that's how mad I am tbh. My friends have made explanations which you can find here, and here. And while I told myself that after that post I was done, seeing my friend receive a comment like this was the final pushing point I needed.

I'm both going to ramble about Nezha here again, and I'm going to try and explain this in a way that'll get people to understand, as someone who once followed an Eastern religion too + I'm going to be stating my basic thoughts here so maybe some things won't make sense.

Mild info about me: I'm from Trinidad. My family is described with East Indian descent but clearly, I'm not from India itself. My knowledge of Hinduism is rather basic because I quit religion thanks to traumatic experiences related to it, however not lacking fully. From my father's side, specifically his mother, they practice Hinduism and can even be considered devout Hindus (if I'm to believe all the statues and pictures of about almost every single Hindu god). Though my knowledge is basic, understand that I'm not Hindu nor Indian, so of course these are my opinions and my experiences with Hinduism, and I do not advise you taking my word fully to heart. I'm only trying to explain something to the LMK fandom in the best way I know how too, by referencing another Eastern religion that isn't half as popular as Daoism/Buddhism.

There's only one show I know where Hinduism is portrayed, and it's an anime/manga series called Record Of Ragnarok (Shuumatsu No Valkyrie), and from what I know it's not well liked by others (and even banned I think?) because of the fact Shiva is weaker than Zeus and the supposed sexualization of Parvati, Kali and Durga? It's been a while so I could be wrong on this though.

Why am I bringing this topic up to a rant about a lego character though?

#1) Fiction vs Religion and Reality

While one half expresses discontent and discomfort, I've seen others who clearly don't mind because Shiva is still badass and cool. I myself had some qualms about his appearance in the beginning because while I did quit religion, this was a god I used to worship, and seeing him in an anime/manga and be sexualized and simped for was…uncanny, to say the least. Overtime I grew numb to it though because it was genuinely funny and even I, an ex Hindu, found him attractive, and had not much hesitation writing smut about him in past fics.

Similarly, I can imagine this is how Daoists and Chinese had originally felt about Nezha in Lego Monkie Kid [Only referencing LMK with Chinese deities. I'm aware there could be other media where they're in.] A bit weird at first but then overall got used to it because there's genuinely no harm done, as it's not meant to be an educational retelling of a god, but a fictional portrayal of him.

Returning to the point I mentioned with Shiva. When I first came across this series in 2021 (?), I did not feel too happy and comfortable with the image of a deity I've grown up worshipping as a child. I quit religion when I turned 13, so it's been nearly five years since I've had nothing to do with the main religion of my household; Hinduism. Still, I practically grew up worshipping this god I was taught to fear, and seeing a potrayal of him (which honestly in my opinion) didn't seem like a good thing at the time.

Why did I eventually stop being bothered? Because this wasn't supposed to be retelling of Shiva. This was just a character with similarities to the god I worshipped, but wasn't the god. The series I watched wasn't even intending to teach audiences about any of the religions and real life figures they portrayed, they simply used them as inspiration to tell a story. They weren't accurate representations, but that was the point. It's a story about gods vs humans from history; of course it wasn't going to be accurate nor stay true to the figure they took inspiration from.

You can imagine then for a cartoon series meant to sell Legos. Lego Monkie Kid contains several characters that are known in Chinese myths and legends/religions. Of the most popular mentioned, there is Sun Wukong, one of the main characters in the series, Tang Sanzang otherwise known as Tripitaka and the Great Monk, Lady Guanyin mentioned in season 1, the one the fandom argues about, Nezha, the Jade Emperor in season 4, and most recently, Nuwa, and Heavenly Pagoda King, Li Jing. There may be others but these are the ones that are most known within the fandom.

Mind you some of these figures are still very much worshipped now, but, point remains: the series was never intended to be a retelling of these characters stories, nor were they intended to be educational for audiences. They took inspiration directly, gave their own twists, and hence you have the story of LMK, meant to originally promote Legos and then eventually gave way to the series that this fandom belongs too.

These characters are not their source material, nor the origins of which they came from as religious figures. Sun Wukong is a Buddha within JTTW’s ends and if I'm right is still worshipped as such sometimes (?). He didn't hide away into a mountain at the end of his journey. His companions didn't die, nor were they reincarnated, but instead also acquired titles and became Buddhas as well. (Or gods? I frankly don't remember). Tang Sanzang as we've in season 4 was not some sort of brave, astute man in the book but rather a crybaby coward. Need I even point out that Nezha wouldn't have a giant mech to fight people, nor would he have such close deposition with the Jade Emperor? Or the fact that the Jade Emperor would be bested by someone like Azure Lion?

Not even counting Journey To The West and the Fengshen Yanyi, the real Tang Sanzang that Wu Cheng’en took inspiration of most certainly did not have a monkey, a pig, a water demon and a dragon turned horse with him on his journey.

Why speak of all this?

To make my first point; religion and fiction are two very different things. Religion has existed for who knows how long, and fiction has recently decided to include fictional potrayals of these gods into stories and cartoons. From a writer's perspective, it's really interesting taking something that is a part of religion and writing it into your own works, with your own take on it.

And of course, brings me to the topic of Nezha.

Lego Monkie Kid Nezha is, according to an official writer within the show's team, an adult. Although many fans have their objections about this, supposedly because Nezha in other sources is a child god, and think that the writer only abruptly pointed out Nezha's an adult to save her own skin.

Taking all my points in consideration; let me humour the Nezha is a child god idea. What, exactly, does this have to do with Nezha in Monkie Kid?

If Nezha, the god within Daoism and Buddhism, is supposedly a child deity, what law says that any other potryal of Nezha has to abide by this?

By this logic. Shiva in the anime I mentioned above shouldn't be weaker than Zeus. He also shouldn't even be agreeing to fight mortals, as he's a deity far above such petty behavior. Zeus shouldn't be portrayed in books like PJO as a lecherous cheater, because in reality, Ancient Greece consisted of multiple kingdoms and thereby different interpretations of Zeus were merged together which is what consists of the myths we know of him today which is highly disrespectful, and Sun Wukong shouldn't be a mentor to MK, because he's supposed to be a Buddhist, and thereby wouldn't be entertaining fighting nuances.

Fiction doesn't not adhere to reality. The fact I need to say this astounds me because should this not be obvious? Lego Monkie Kid is a cartoon set in some sci-fi futuristic world with lego people walking around, where gods somehow need mechs to go around fighting, and there are animal-like demons/yaoguai walking around here and there. There is literally an arcade in the show with zero gravity. Do you possibly believe for a miniscule second that anything that goes down in a fictional setting will adhere to our reality??

And, even then, humouring the Nezha being a child deity concept > what law says that he has to be portrayed as a child in other pieces of fiction?? Especially when the fictional setting is not meant to be a retelling or for educational purposes, but rather to carry a plot.

There is nothing, no law, no rules that insists that a religious figure must be portrayed as they are in a legend/myth for a fictional world.

Lego Monkie Kid Nezha is not the deity Nezha. He is a completely different character, which many of you should have realized from the exact moment he was brought into the show. They are not the same person. Never was.

“Oh, it's disrespectful―” From a writer's perspective, I personally don't think so. If I wanted to make a story that involved a god, I wouldn't keep everything that makes that god who they are. There are some key points I would keep to make the story, but I would ultimately create an OC that shares some attributes to this religious figure, but it wouldn't be him. The show Record of Ragnarok does a good job with this in my opinion, because while many characters share some attributes to the real figures they're inspired by, the writers changed several things to create a proper story, and thereby making these characters OCs and not the actual gods themselves, and of course that logic applies to Lego Monkie Kid.

In the instance, again, Nezha the god from Daoism, is in fact a child deity, Nezha in LMK isn't. Nezha in LMK is someone who's entirely different from the god himself.

So, the logic this fandom uses confuses me a lot. Do you not understand how to seperate fiction from religion?? Do many of you not understand media literacy, and what a writing process is like?

Sigh. Moving to another point―

#2) Character Designs

Sometimes, when it comes to character designs, anyone could just throw them into anything and think, “Yeah that's good.” Not much thought is given to a character's appearances depending, which I don't really blame as someone who's 1) done literature as a hobby and has seen my fair share of character designs, 2) creates characters myself. It's too hard thinking of a character's appearance, and even then when making them there normally wouldn't be any significance.

Nezha's design in LMK seems to be a huge source of debate when arguing about his age. It was actually brought up in my previous post, specifically that his hairstyle was often used by children at the time.

I have a bone to pick with this point.

This is Nezha from Lego Monkie Kid:

However, this is Mei from the same show:

Before anyone starts, allow me to point out as a history geek that likes religion and pointless facts over politics: I am aware that there are different hairstyles to show certain things, including one's age and status and sometimes even personality. Do not bring up any points about the differences in these characters hairstyles with an excuse, “Oh, but you should know―”, because I know how hairstyles could be treated within history.

However. Look at Nezha's hairstyle, and then Mei's. I've never seen the LMK fandom complain about Mei's age, because it was generally believed that MK and Mei are both at least 18 if not older, as the legal age for a driver's license in China is 18.

Both Nezha and Mei are wearing a ‘bun’ type hairstyle. Mei's is arguably more of twin ponytails (?), but I'm not a hairstylist, so I don't know what they're called. To me they look similar, that's all I'm trying to say. And even if they weren't though―through a modern lense, a hairstyle isn't reserved for just any specific age. Anyone can wear a hairstyle they want. Keep in mind that the creators of LMK are also Western(?), and they chose a hairstyle for these two characters based on personality and appearances.

A hairstyle is not reserved for any age. Grown women including my aunts have worn hairstyles similar to these just for fun.

That's point one.

Point two; Nezha is a very popular deity, much like Sun Wukong. In terms of recognition, Sun Wukong is very easy to recognize because of his staff and his overall cocky personality.

Nezha however is an entirely different case. Most media potrayals of him always has the two-bun hairstyle of him, which is what makes Nezha recognizable. If you remove that specific hairstyle of his, you won't recognize him. It's iconic, and pointed out in this scene (The Legend of Hei) where Nezha makes an appearance as well.

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[Characters sitting together. White haired boy (Hei + MC) looks at the older, dark haired boy (Nezha). Nezha looks back.]

Nezha: What? You want an autograph?

Hei: You're a boy?

Nezha: Yeah?

Hei: Your hairstyle is cute.

[Nezha looks in front with an annoyed expression.]

Nezha: If it weren't for the recognizability, I'd have changed it long ago.

Hei: Recognizability?

[Nezha removes the buns(? some form of them?) from his head. Three older figures glance at him.]

???: Who are you?

[Scene returns]

Nezha: See?

Aka, point being made: those buns are what makes Nezha recognizable. If he doesn't have that hairstyle, unless it's specifically pointed out, I'm certain majority would not recognize him.

Some hairstyles are meant to be done for some form of meaning. But sometimes, as is the case with designs, they're just there just because no one wanted to make the characters bald. Using the excuse about Nezha's hairstyle to justify his age as a child is by far the lamest and dumbest excuse I've ever heard of, because the creators did not give him that hairstyle for the sake of some meaning anymore than MK was given his current hairstyle either. It's his logo at this point, ignoring his color scheme aside.

Even then, if the creators of Lego Monkie Kid intended for Nezha to be a child within the show, he would not appear as he is. Lego Monkie Kid has made children models, which we can see here (used from s3 and up in case someone tries to excuse the differences in seasons):

And of course, Nezha's model;

Despite the perspective and low quality though, he's at least the same height as Red Son here:

If Lego Monkie Kid truly intended for Nezha to be a child, his appearance and model would be similar to the children's in the show. Perspective is difficult to find but you can clearly see he's about the same height as the other adult characters if not taller, and is not small like the child figures we see.

Pink isn't a children's color, and nothing about Nezha's clothing indicates a child. He very much looks like an adult and doesn't exhibit childish behavior as we see Red Son, Mei and MK do.

I've seen fans use his voice to point out he's an adult, but I'm not sure that's a valid point. I say this as someone who has a 13 year old brother and was recently a minor myself.

Allow me to clarify: a voice isn't a clear proof of age. My father is a 45 year old man but sounds very much like a woman/teenage girl. My brother is 13 and sounds more of an adult than his father. My classmate in highschool was one year older than me and his voice was very high-pitched.

The voice actors in LMK are directed to speak a certain way for a reason…in English. I'm not sure about Mandarin. In my opinion, Wukong's voice sounds like Son Goku's because it's a reference to the fact Wukong is what inspired Goku. Nezha's probably sounds deep and brooding not because he's a child but because it almost represents his own personality, and probably is a reference from another shonen protagonist Ichigo Kurosaki. MK's voice in the beginning sounds really childish to me but slowly as the events of s3, 4 and 5 happen it gets more deeper almost as a reference to show how his ‘innocence’ is slowly fading.

Or, I might be looking to into it. Regardless, tdlr, don't use Nezha's voice in your argument. I've seen grown ass men have high pitched voices.

Returning to my original point however; if you have an ounce of media literacy and understanding, you should be aware that some character designs are chosen for a reason. Nezha's icon is those two bun hairstyle, and the writers purposely chose it so old fans/readers of JTTW and FSYY and maybe other Chinese/Daoists would be able to recognize him and go, “Hey, that's Nezha from―”

Before I got into LMK, I read JTTW and also saw The Legend of Hei and the Nezha 2019 movie, so I knew him because of the hairstyle. And my first instinct of course was to point out, “That's the dude from TLOH!!” when I saw him. So, the hairstyle was chosen for the recognizability, and I highly doubt as a sign of age.

Even then, LMK Nezha aside, moving on to a different point.

#3) Sources Of Inspiration

The 21st century isn't really the first era where people are taking inspiration from other cultures. As a matter of fact, it's been happening for decades, and it's very prominent in religion, which someone of you would know if you both a) actually did proper research, b) gave a shit about what you're researching and c) studied history.

Hilariously, I have done all three of the above.

I'm going to use a popular example here with Sun Wukong and Hanuman. Hinduism is supposedly largely considered one of the oldest religions in the world. If you truly think about it, certain Daoist deities are loosely inspired or are versions of Hindu gods, which I'm going to use here with a popular example (and provide a link too).

― Sun Wukong and Hanuman. The earliest Vedic records mention one of the supposed known monkey gods, and their similarities make scholars suggest Hanuman inspired Sun Wukong. Specifically his figure in JTTW, where it's speculated that the author must've had a copy of Vedic (?) hymns. While Sun Wukong does predate JTTW, Hanuman definitely has had some influence on him.

Much, much similarly, the deity known as Nezha, is also loosely inspired/based off the figure known as Nalakuvara, who appears in Hindu and Buddhist mythology, and often appears as a sexual trickster figure in Hindu and Buddhist literature.

Historically speaking, when it comes to religion and myths, something many people fail to understand is that before there was the idea of writing to tell a story, there was the process known as sharing from mouth to ear. Not in a literal sense, but rather that people often preferred to tell stories via word of mouth back then, and as things always go in history, there will be changes. The proof is literally right there. Nezha was originally known as Nalakuvara, yet when transmitted through Buddhist texts, he became known as Nazha, then Nezha. And as such, the Lotus Prince and Chinese god known as Nezha was created. A combination of Nalakuvara and the child god Krishna.

A lot of people will want to jump on that specific point that mentions Krishna being a child god, so allow me to immediately put you down right there.

Ex Hindu here; I did not even know there was a portrayal of Krishna as a child. Up until I stopped practicing Hinduism, I used to worship Krishna as an adult figure. In the paintings and statues my aunts had for Diwali as a child, he was always showcased as an adult.

Ironically, doesn't this apply for the actual god Nezha too?

When it comes to religion and myths, many of you forget something very important; there is no such thing as a canon iteration. These aren't shows, these are stories from the past told through different people, and passed through many hands. There is no such thing as a canon version because almost everyone had their own version of a myth or story. Terms you may typically apply to fandoms don't apply to fucking religions and myths, and some of you are so chronically online that you forget it.

#4) The LMK Fandom's Chronically Online Attitude

I'm an ex Hindu who still faintly remembers some bits and pieces from my childhood while practicing this religion, especially during the Diwali period, where little me managed to get new information from library books about the gods my family worshipped. I personally didn't like sitting during the priest's (forgot what he was called) chanting though but the funny white thingy we used to have to wear was fun.

There are some Hindu gods I'm familiar with, like Lakshmi, Kali, Durga and the other versions of her (I still can't recover from the one statue with her in a fish..) Parvati, Shiva, Vishnu, Hanuman (yaah), Rama and Sita, Ganesh (also yah) and of course, Krishna. I also have watched my fair share of childhood movies and cartoons where the gods were mentioned or present―Karan & Arjun specifically struck the fear in me with Kali 😭😭 holy fuck that movie scared me with the creepy edits jeez T-T. There was also that one cartoon about Rama and Sita”s story specifically Hanuman, and this Indian TV series where this little girl was a loyal devotee to Ganesha (I had no idea rats were one of his uh signature animals holy shit).

I'm rambling here a bit because the childhood memories were fun, but the point I'm going for is though….

I am familiar with these gods I grew up with. And I know about them, maybe not enough but certainly enough to know how to properly respect them from back then.

And, using Krishna as a prime example; if someone came up to me, or I came across anyone, who argues that the god I know is an immortal child, even though I have worshipped and adult version of him, I'd be so fucking pissed. Krishna is seen as an adult, I worshipped him as an adult, but there are cases where he's a child god, and that's fine! But to have someone tell you that you're wrong about the god you know about because they got some basic information off the internet, undoubtedly, I'm going to be pissed. Especially when it's from a Western fan who has no fucking brain.

So, of course, imagine how devotees of Nezha and Chinese people must be feeling every single time this fandom fucks about with Nezha's age. I saw it myself; people told my friend that a) she was lying and b) her statement is irrelevant just because “I did my proper research, and even if you're Chinese you can still be a proshipper, Nezha's a child deity.”

It's genuinely so fucked up to me how the LMK fandom act towards Nezha's age. You guys will ignore the people who are willing to provide accurate information for the sake of being in the right and accusing people for being a proshipper over a deity they have more experience with than you, a Western fan who has no knowledge of Eastern religion.

It's insane. There are actual Daoist and Chinese who are pointing out the fact Nezha isn't an immortal fucking child.

You're not only disrespectful, you insane, childish and most importantly chronically online. Nezha the god isn't a fictional character, there's nothing ‘canon’ about him. He's a god who's lived for decades longer than you, and his existence predates yours. People have long sinced worshipped Nezha, and the fact that you can so boldly tell someone they're wrong about the god they've worshipped is so disrespectful.

Do you not realize, as Nezha is worshipped as a child, he's worshipped as an adult? Do you not take into account how absolutely disgusting and horrible you are telling Daoists and Chinese who have stated time and time again the information of Nezha being an immortal child is factually incorrect that they're wrong and know nothing??

I'm repeating my statement; I'm an ex Hindu, but if anyone told me that Krishna's an immortal child too and then point out I'm wrong and my point doesn't matter, I would be seething. And I don't blame my friend who's losing their temper about Nezha's age.

What amazes me though, somehow, is the fact that. If anyone who was Chinese + Daoist agreed with your claims, as Cole from Twitter once did, none of you would've spoken that way to my friend. But of course, once she points out she's Chinese/ex Daoist and disagrees with you, majority of the opinions switched because, she wasn't agreeing with your headcanon, right? So even though she's Chinese, she's bad because she disagreed with you.

You're all disgusting and fucking weird.

And the fact y'all in this fandom will habitually prove yourselves as hypocrites by attacking people, and then ignoring the ones who are capable of proving you're wrong to cling to a false idea is insane. You guys need some actual help, holy fucking shit.

Nezha isn't an immortal child. That's a god. If he was intended to be a child in LMK, there would've been statements about it.

Seperate fiction from religion, and seperate your headcanon from canon and the actual god. If you think this biased headcanon is okay and attacking people that point you out for being wrong is somehow okay, I sincerely ask that you take a break from the internet, and read a book.

No, don't just read a book. Read a history book. Pick up some knowledge, understand how religion and history works.

Furthermore. The research some of you guys are doing is actually shit, by the way. You guys aren't researching properly if you can pull up with Nezha is 12, thing. If you actually cared about his age, you'd put more effort and actually stop being disrespectful to the people who are giving you the proper information. You only research surface level so you can attack people.

And additionally, stop playing the Devil's advocate. Most of you are just Western fans who think you know everything from reading one book or watching one show. You read JTTW or watch OSP’s videos and suddenly, you know more than an actual Chinese person or Daoist. You look up Wikipedia and think, “Oh yeah, I'll go with this!” And that's it. Most of you at best can provide only three websites at most, and I can bet my ass that these websites with information about Nezha's age was written by a fan who got their information from a shit source.

I love History, and most specifically, I love religion. Not so much the divine aspects as it is about the myths that surround it. Whenever I get into a fandom, I need to find out more about their religion and history. Getting into JTTW, and eventually, LMK, pushed me into a rabbit hole of Chinese myths that I really enjoy learning. But dealing with idiots who think they know more?? It's sickening as shit.

I'd like to think I'm good at literature things because once it's a religion or myth I want to learn everything about it. But I know I don't know everything, and I know especially I have more to learn. I'd never tell someone who is a part or worships the religion/culture I'm learning that they're factually incorrect about it just because I have an opinion and I learnt my info from a random source.

You guys in the LMK fandom are incredibly entitled. The Nezha is 12 controversy is a headcanon, which became worst by that asshat Cole on Twitter. And because so many of you don't want to learn the truth, whenever someone tries to point out and help you, you ignore them or attack them, and deny their heritage.

And honestly?? You guys suck.

And this is coming from me!! Some of y'all are grown ass adults too!! And yet I'm childish and immature!?!

Brother I literally turned 18 a few months ago, yet I'm 100% certain I'm not throwing a blasted hissy fit over a fucking god the way some of you all who are most definitely adults are doing.

And finally, the one thing that actually does make me laugh is because I'm pretty sure most of you didn't do History classes. One of the most important things my history teacher taught me is; don't use Wikipedia as a source of viable information. Thousands of people are capable of accessing Wikipedia and changing information as they want, and so it's much better to find book solid resources from libraries. I did in fact use Wikipedia too (hypocritical of me yeah) so of course I wouldn't advise using the screenshots I provided from Wikipedia as evidence to the argument, because anything on Wikipedia can be changed. If I'm feeling extra petty I could change something myself to be in the right.

Furthermore, if you dare to bring up only JTTW and FSSY as a plausible argument about Nezha's age, I'm genuinely going to throw hands and fuck your mother. I think my friend also mentioned it in their posts but I'll mention it here too; JTTW does NOT state Nezha's age. I've read JTTW, and aside from Wukong vs Nezha there's nothing else that states Nezha's age. For all we're aware of, Wukong called Nezha a kid just out of spite, and I do it too when I'm arguing with someone. FSSY is the Investiture of the Gods and the ORIGINS!! Do you THINK a book about the ORIGINS of the gods would focus on other aspects about them!!? No!!

I expect some of the arguments I might get are;

"Oh, Nezha [appearances] could be wearing a glamor!" That is a headcanon, as we see nothing in LMK to refute that. Macaque's scar is canon because it's shown within the show. Nezha's appearance has NOT fluctuated since he was introduced. The idea of him using a glamor or illusion is a HEADCANON unless proven by the show. And headcanons are NOT vital.

"But you use Wikipedia too :(" Which I pointed out and made aware of, which is I also doubt that source myself. If any of you did History, your teachers are supposed to INFORM you that using a website is NOT a good idea for backing up information, and it's much better to use books or other trusted sources. In the case of Nezha, I'm trusting actual Daoists/Chinese who knows more about him than I do. It's because I did PROPER research that I even came across a good source of information, aka @ruibaozha, who I'm sure can share more light on this than me! The fact that some of you guys won't even acknowledge them is almost proof that...you're clinging to a headcanon. Jackass.

"But Nezha in JTTW/FSSY are 7/12 and that's where LMK takes it's inspiration from so obviously―" We've seen for a fact LMK does NOT follow JTTW to the letter. Jade Emperor beating Wukong?? Lady Bone Demon being a powerful foe and being trapped in a bunker? Azure even being able to kill the Emperor? Majority of the LMK fandom likes to point out that LMK Macaque and JTTW Macaque are two different people, especially when you claim that Macaque is a bad character because he cannibalized the monkeys. So then, with this logic, JTTW Nezha, FSSY Nezha, and LMK Nezha are also three seperate figures. I swear someone made a post about the differences JTTW and FSSY Nezha have too, but I can't find it so meh. The point still remains though. LMK Nezha are two different people, you're not making any sense to me about that argument. Even then, LMK isn't taking direct inspiration and putting their own twist. Who says anything needs to be accurate??

"The writer only said Nezha's an adult to ship lotuspeach!" Are you faintly aware people, actual Chinese people, have shipped these characters together? Proshippers can come from anywhere but I genuinely doubt every single person is a proshipper because of course, they're aware their god isn't an eternal child. On top of that, in a situation like this another writer would point out that Nezha ISN'T an adult. No one has argued against this claim, so why persist? Where's your logic coming from if not entitlement?

I want this to be the last time I have to talk about Nezha, because I made my blog to write porn and me smooching my favorite LMK characters. I kinda don't really like making discussions like this because that's not the point of my blog.

However...I do like rambling. A lot :)))

Anyways, point blank. LMK fandom needs to grow out of this entitled mindset and stop ignoring the facts from experts. You guys are just being annoying at this point.

My argument isn't really valid tbh, just pointless rambling because I only know basic information. I think you guys should find proper information from accounts online.

Also, if you're gonna argue: don't bring be albeist, racist etc etc. I'm capable of cussing you out without bringing up your mental health, race or identity :)))

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brucewaynehater101 · 6 months ago

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In reverse Robins, technically Steph would be the second Robin, she would be in Jason's pixie boots and come back devastated and vengeful. Tim would either still be stuck at the one who has to put all the pieces together with people throwing all his effort and work back in his face because of the loss of a loved one and him not being them, or maybe in Barbara's position, crippled, traumatized, and having to rebuild himself both as a civilian and vigilante

Then Jason as the Replacement, the one who has to live up to his multiple predecessors, who has to mediate between two (mostly) grown men, who believes that Gotham needs Robin, needs the hope that Batman brings to the city

Bored with Red Hood Tim, give me Oracle Tim, give me a Tim who's forced to create his own mantle instead of taking on someone else's name while he gets the job done

You are absolutely correct. Why didn't I think about it that way? If we are reversing Robins, Duke would be a very temp "Robin" before Damian, who is older, takes over the role. They wouldn't be called Robin, but whatever mantle they end up passing down.

Duke would be it for like a minute or two (maybe his gang is inspired by Batman, wants to help the crusader, and then Duke settles into being his own role). Damian would then come into the picture, take up the mantle Duke discarded, and need to be Batman's partner (Duke doesn't need to. Damian needs the constant presence of Bruce both so he can get to know his dad and so that he is guided on Bruce's version of vigilantism).

Damian goes off to do whatever (maybe he does a few years in the LoA similar to what Bruce did but obviously different).

Bruce stumbles upon Steph, who's Spoiler, and negotiates with her to take up Damian's discarded mantle. Steph, who has her mom, never actually joins the Waynes. She also never truly bonds with Damian (who's away and not approving of her taking "his" mantle). Duke and her get along, but he typically works the "day shift."

Then Steph spots Tim stalking her on a roof. At first, creeped out, she hits him with a brick. Then Tim shows her the photos of the other Bats and the evidence he's collected of cases. Steph begrudgingly grows fond of the little stalker.

She doesn't have the best relationship with Bruce and is still a little miffed he forced her to be a vigilante under his watch (instead of continuing to be independent). Because of this, Steph keeps Tim to herself and away from the Bats. Tim doesn't want to be a vigilante anyways.

Steph shows Tim some moves to keep himself safe while he collects evidence and becomes a stalker. Cass gets adopted around this point and becomes the only Wayne aware of Tim's presence. It's a secret between the three of them.

Tim even introduces Steph to Helena Bertinelli. He met her while he was gathering clues for a case. While Tim and Helena are closer, Steph admires the older woman and her way of vigilantism. Steph can't copy it cause of Bruce, but Steph doesn't find it to be wrong either.

Then the whole mess with Black Mask happens, and Steph "dies."

Tim, who's devastated at the loss, sees Bruce losing it. He, despite the many jokes and promises he made to Steph, offers to take up her role in order to leash Bruce.

Bruce, who finds out the dead person he considered a daughter had kept a whole side of herself from him, pushes Tim away even more. Tim gets sent away, learns from Shiva, and stubbornly forces Bruce into healthier methods of grieving.

In the end, Tim gets captured by Joker, and the Joker Junior arc happens. While Tim isn't physically disabled, the torture and brainwashing makes returning to the field incredibly difficult. Tim has a hard time keeping himself present when he's not at home (and sometimes struggles even then). He has laughing spells and other shit. Tim has to pull himself from the field because of this.

Bruce, on the other hand, goes off the rails again. Tim, who can barely get out of bed some days, gives up. He can't keep managing Bruce's mental well-being on top of his own.

Tim moves out to the clock tower and spends a while moping (understandably). That is until a villain tries to pull some shit online, and Tim discovers another way he can help without being a liability in the field.

Tim nearly orders a hit on Bruce when he finds Jason in the same role that killed Steph and disabled Tim. Duke talks him down and promises to always look out for Jason. Maybe Damian comes back as well.

While Tim isn't able to go in the field, he can still train. It acts as a soothing routine to him. He ensures that Jason is always able to escape and drills into his head that running away is always better than dying. There are worse things than dying, too.

Then, while Jason is "Robin", Steph comes back as "Red Hood." She would probably do a play on words as Black Mask instead for her name. I'm not sure what her training arc would be like, but I like to imagine that she teams up with Helena sometimes.

Tim, through his connections with Helena and Harley, still creates the Birds of Prey.

Anyways, hope this is a decent timeline! There's more that can be added for each of the Batkids, so feel free to add what else you think should happen

#dc comics #tim drake #dc universe #steph brown #duke thomas #jason todd #bruce wayne #damian wayne #cass wayne #reverse robins #thank you for the ask!!!!

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thelibrarian1895 · 6 months ago

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Bat bio donors

So Catherine Todd, unfortunately, wasn't Jason's bio mom, even if she was his mom in every other way that matters. Embezzler, child trafficker, and Joker associate Shelia Haywood was his biological mother...probably.

There was no DNA test so I remain unconvinced.

That being said, I see no acceptable evidence that Willis Todd was Jason's bio father. (And if there is, shhh, don't care)

Yes Bruce could be his bio dad but boring, be more creative!

For example, someone else who's based in Gotham, who might have a fling and not follow up on it for very whatever reason, and who might be the namesake of our favorite gun wielding bat: Jason Bood. Yes Shelia, if she is the mother, may have put Willis on the birth certificate, but there's nothing to say that she didn't have an evening with a man with a charming accent, considerable experience, and a rather two faced nature.

Or perhaps someone who is a tiny bit less volatile such as David Cain.

Or honestly there's enough weirdness in Gotham that Jason's other bio donor was Nocturna, the woman who would later want to adopt him while he was Robin and she was, in fact, though she didn't know it, trying to get her own bio child.

Furthermore, Bruce as Tim Drake's bio donor, yes, good, understandable, likely even.

However, there are other options, for example:

Janet spends a great deal of time going around the world and with various artifacts, some of these artifacts could be magical in nature. That magic may have various effects on the average person and one of the more popular things that people in ancient times sought revolved around fertility control, to improve or prevent. Janet might trip over more than a few artifacts designed to improve fertility, let's say even to the point that some who might not normally be able to sire children might in fact be capable of doing so with Janet while she's still under the influence of such magic, such as:

Lady Shiva who admires Janet's ability to handle both a growing business and her academic pursuits.

Ra's Al Ghul who came by for an artifact and had a fling with the lady who found it mostly because why not? Yes if Tim ever found out, or Ra's ever found out, it would result in considerable mental distress, but it could also be hilarious. Flip a coin to decide if this would make Talia want Tim dead more or less than she already does.

Some ancient god who's essentially mortal at this point and has been clinging to existence by the thinnest thread and really the only reason their name is known at this point is because it was in a letter about very bad copper. Tim receives no benefits from this parent except above average endurance and healing which is how he's survived. He's also as stubborn as the nameless god that's hung on for four thousand or so years.

Gotham itself is Tim's bio donor and this is why tiny baby stalker Tim didn't die a thousand times over while he was taking pictures, Gotham was looking out for their son.

Then there's Cassandra, "one who is all" who may or may not be Shiva's daughter.

Honestly for Shiva and for Talia, given the danger they put themselves in and the stress that pregnancy can do to a body, plus the necessary time to heal properly afterwards, the canon where Damian is grown in a tube makes sense and I wouldn't be surprised if Shiva took a page from Talia's book.

Shiva as the mother of "one who is all" can make sense. The other bio donor, well, let's look at other options.

Slade perhaps? He's had quite a few remarkable children, and can handle none of them, but that wouldn't stop him from being a candidate.

If you're a fan of wuxia or xianxia novels, look for or make up some ancient cultivator that Shiva sought out for training perhaps and on that strength Cassandra can pick up cultivation and become that much more awesome, maybe even teach it to her brothers.

Sect Leader Cass o((>ω< ))o

Or someone can be related to or connected to a Lamont Crantson and see if they can step out of his Shadow.

Dick's bio parents were freakin' awesome so jumping over him and also leaving Duke's parentage alone though more distant ancestors for either of them, such as great-great grandmothers or grandfathers might be interesting. Dick has a Talon in the family tree but who else might be hanging around in there?

For example, Santa is real in the dc universe. Tim and his team could have witnessed the death of Dick's maternal great-great-great-great grandpa.

As for Duke, if his family has been in Gotham for longer than a generation, there've got to be some serious weirdos in his bloodline, maybe a lesser known Talon or Queen Mab.

Damian not being the son of Bruce and Talia would be a serious blow to the kid and not worth it. Giving him blood siblings is more fun. He already has a problem learning to share his dad with his adopted siblings, sharing with blood siblings would be good for him.

Stephanie? An additional dad option would probably give her some sort of mental crisis since she originally based her vigilante career on defeating her deadbeat, second rate rogue father. It would be interesting and honestly a little hilarious though if her mother had a fling with Oliver Queen.

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reunionatdawn · 2 months ago

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The beauty of Axel's original character arc

"I thought a lot about that. Should I leave him as he was or should I bring him back again? However, when I considered the people that Lea wants to bring back, his existence plays a big role. I think Lea has successively become a key character." (Tetsuya Nomura)

Nomura said that he debated whether to bring Axel back to life, or to leave him as he was. The fact that he wasn't sure meant that his KH2 character arc must have felt complete somehow. So, I'd like to take a look back at Axel's original storyline in KH2 and why I liked it so much. I thought his death worked very well as a beautiful and satisfying (albeit more bittersweet) ending to his story. In many ways, I found it to be much more poignant than his storyline in KH3.

“Is that how to treat a best friend on coming back from completing a long mission!” “I don’t recall becoming your best friend.” (Another Report: Roxas—Somewhere in Time)

Roxas was closer to Axel than any of the other Organization members. But he obviously yearned to have best friends his own age. That is why he was best friends with Hayner in his dream world, even though he didn't know them in real life. And he didn't even remember Axel. In other words, Roxas and Axel were not really best friends. In the short story that was included with the Japanese version of KH2FM+, Axel was the one who was insistent on using that label.

Hayner: Well, I doubt we can be together forever. But isn't that what growing up's all about? What's important isn't how often we see each other, but how often we think about each other. Right?

The whole concept behind Nobodies was that they had no hearts, but they still had their memories from the time when they did. So, the writers undoubtedly had some idea of what each member's backstory was like. In the original KH2, the writers chose not to explicitly tell us anything about Axel's past. But based on his behavior, we would be able to ascertain that he probably had a best friend when he was still a human. However, he was already a grown up. His summer vacation must've ended a long time ago. He could no longer be with his best friend, and he needed Roxas to fill that void.

Roxas: Organization XIII… they're a bad group. Naminé: Bad or good, I don't know. They're a group of incomplete people who wish to be whole. To that end, they're desperately searching for something.

One of the biggest themes in KH2 is that of duality. In Hinduism, the universe is said to be made up of two complementary opposite forces called Shiva and Shakti. Shiva is the masculine force and is known as the destroyer or transformer. He is associated with chaos, darkness, and the element of fire, which symbolizes purification. Shakti represents light, order, and the feminine nurturing aspects of the universe, giving birth to new life. She is associated the element of wind, which symbolizes life energy and creation.

Axel's moniker is "おどる火の風". It translates to "Wind of the Dancing Fire" or "Dancing Fire's Wind". This is my theory of what the deeper meaning was. One of the most famous depictions of Shiva is that of him dancing in a ring of fire. This version of him is known as known as Nataraja. The rhythmic movements of the dance are said to cause storms and destruction. And there's a backstory to the dance.

In Hindu mythology, Sati immolated herself out of intense devotion to her husband Shiva when her father insulted him. When Shiva learned of Sati's death, he was overcome with grief, sorrow, and uncontrollable rage. Shiva carried Sati's lifeless body on his shoulders and began to perform the cosmic dance of destruction.

In KH1, the reports mentioned how Ansem amplified "storms" in the subjects of his experiments on the darkness of the heart. The kanji used (嵐) can refer to a literal storm or it can also be used metaphorically to describe an intense emotional state. I suspect that the original idea in KH2 was that Axel's best friend was killed during an experiment. And this event caused Axel's heart fall to darkness, turning him into a Nobody. It's probably the reason why Axel was so delighted to assassinate Vexen by setting him on fire.

Axel: Let's meet again in the next life. Roxas: Yeah. I'll be waiting. Axel: Silly. Just because you have a next life…

The imagery of Shiva dancing within a circle of flames represents the eternal cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. Shiva performs the dance and destroys the universe, but this destruction is eventually followed by rebirth. His lover Sati was reborn as the goddess Parvati and reunited with Shiva as his other half. Their combined form represents unity in duality and cosmic balance. In KH2, Axel did not think he was going to be reborn. And that was the basis of his storyline.

Naminé: We may not have homes. But there is someplace I want to go… And someone I want to see… Axel: Same here.

Nobodies had a strong thematic association with death and the afterlife. In KH2, Naminé was the ghost girl living in the haunted mansion. In KH3, she was an incorporeal star in the Final World, the metaphysical place where people go when they have strong attachments and cannot pass on to the other side.

A Nobody was the spirit that went on even as its body faded from existence. They were very similar to the Unsent from FFX, which was another game written by Kazushige Nojima. Axel was created because his human-self had strong sentiments. He desperately wanted to be with his best friend forever. And this unfulfilled dream, ironically, kept his body and soul tethered to the realm of light.

Kairi: Maybe…waiting isn't good enough. Axel: My thoughts exactly! If you have a dream, don't wait. Act. One of life's little rules. Got it memorized?

When Axel asked Kairi if she wanted to "see" Sora, he was referring to her meeting him in the afterlife because he was planning to kill them both. A similar form of wordplay was also used in the Japanese dialogue. His intentions were made apparent by his outstretched hand. He wanted Sora to become a Heartless again. So, he probably planned to accomplish that the same way he became a Heartless.

(Japanese Translation) Axel: We're quite similar, aren't we? Both of us want to meet our important friends. Don't you think we're like comrades?

In the KH universe, when a person dies, their heart returns to the light of Kingdom Hearts. Since Axel didn't think he had a heart, he thought there would be nothing left of him to live on after his empty vessel was destroyed. Even if he wanted to die and be reborn to meet his best friend, he couldn't. He was driven by intense loneliness.

Some Kingdom Hearts fans think there's something romantic between Axel and Roxas and that Disney stopped that from being made explicit. Is that true? Have there been things Disney have stopped you from doing? Nomura: In terms of the relationship between Axel and Roxas, we never intended anything like this and this is actually the first time I ever heard of it! We don't want to openly negate how the fans have come to enjoy the characters, but it was not something the creative team intended. Axel and Roxas are the best of friends and that's their primary relationship.

Axel's intense yearning to see Roxas once more made fans question his orientation even back in 2005. Akuroku was quite a popular ship back in the day and many players saw romantic subtext on Axel's part. I do agree that Axel is easily read as queer. But the creative team was not trying to imply that he was in love with Roxas. I think it was his human best friend that he was really in love with, and Roxas just reminded Axel of him. When he was with Roxas, he felt like he was with his best friend. And that's why he wanted to die by his side.

(Japanese Translation) Axel: When I was with him, it felt like I had a heart too. That kind of feeling... I feel it with you too... The same...

When Axel said, "the same", he was referring to how Sora reminded him of Roxas. But I believe that we were invited to read between the lines and wonder if he was also referring to a human best friend that had already passed on. Ultimately, Axel's original KH2 arc was not about being together with Roxas forever. Roxas merged with his other half and became whole. He would live on within Sora.

In some Hindu traditions, "Sati" also refers to the act of a widow willingly participating in a self-immolation ritual on her deceased husband's funeral pyre. It was seen as an expression of devotion and loyalty and also an act of peerless piety which was said to purge her of all her sins. The widow would achieve spiritual liberation (moksha) not only for herself but also for her deceased husband. This meant that both would be freed from the cycle of death and rebirth (samsara). The widow was thought to be reunited with her husband in the afterlife, enjoying an eternal spiritual existence with him.

To help Sora reunite with Kairi, Axel self-immolated. After he died, Nojima probably envisioned that he would meet his dead best friend again, who was waiting for him on the other side. He had attained moksha, which represents the final goal of human existence in Hinduism, where the soul is liberated from the cycle of samsara. And that's probably why Nomura wasn't sure whether it was better to bring him back to life or to just leave him as he was.

"I never thought he would grow as much as he has. We originally planned to have him exit upon being defeated by Roxas during the opening of KHII, but all the staff, myself included, were strongly inclined to have him keep playing an active role after that. It's possible he will have things to do in the future, too. I tried to put that into his 'see you' line in KH2 FM+." (Tetsuya Nomura)

When KH2 was written, the writers probably had not envisioned a preexisting relationship between Saïx and Axel. But after its success, they decided to expand on the Organization's backstories, and came up with that idea. Isa was based on the original concept that was implied in KH2. Axel did have a human best friend, and that loss had a profound influence on his relationship with Roxas.

If Axel's human best friend was supposed to be literally dead in KH2, then him only being Norted is a major retcon, yes. But it was a retcon that would allow for the eventual reunion of Axel with his best friend in the physical life. Like the Phoenix rising from the ashes, he could resurrect him from the dead. And that was the underlying idea of making Lea a Keyblade wielder in the first place.

Lea and Isa's backstory is one of the missing links of the KH series. By all means, it should have been depicted many years ago, in the defunct Birth by Sleep Volume II. This is a shame because it left their relationship extremely underdeveloped, and their reunion was largely glossed over in KH3 as a result. Because of this, I thought Axel's storyline in KH3 fell flat, and I thought that his ending in KH2 was more impactful. But I may change my mind if we finally get to see more of Axel's long overdue backstory in Missing Link.

#kingdom hearts #kh2 #kh axel #kh lea #kh meta #akusai #leaisa #kh isa #kh saix

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chaos-and-sparkles · 1 year ago

Text

Presenting:

Prowler Pavitr <3<3

Here's Pavitr's design in my Prowler Pavitr au akjdskjdskjkskdsk! It's my au where Pavitr is a fallen hero who used to be Spider-Man and becomes the Prowler, fueled by rage against a world and a system that forced him to pretend at perfection and then only hurt him and the people he loves.

I love him so much,, I have so much stuff in progress about him rn (working on the fics too). Gonna have chaipunk front and center, and like four separate plot arcs, I'm so insane about this au actually -

Anyway here's some infodump about his design inspirations and symbolism I put in it, I loveeeee talking abt him:

Hair -

Okay so this is after some time, like a couple months since Pav became the Prowler, and he's grown his hair out a bit now. It's kind of a mix of rejection of the "masculine" standard of short cropped hair by flaunting his longer curls that he's always been proud of and even had to grow to love He also dyes his hair purple! Bc he didn't wanna cut his hair but he wanted to do something to set himself apart from his old identity and also he's literally an impulsive 17-18 year old and wanted to do something that felt like owning his own self and asserting autonomy over his body etc etc

Something Borrowed -

The tie that he's using to tie back his hair is his original blue headband!! It doesn't go with his outfit at all but It's the original blue headband that Maya Aunty got for him all those years ago that he's been wearing forever and it snapped and broke in the battle that preceded what happened to her, and he still keeps it and ties his hair back with it instead The nosering (nath) used to be Gayatri's, they used to try out her jewelry on him and he loved that one so much she gifted it to him, and since he's basically left his old life and gone no contact with her it's all he has left of Gaya too

Main Outfit -

His jacket is loosely based on Krrish's leather jacket from the Bollywood movie series that's about a superhero named Krrish. I just think it has the dramatique and vibe Pav would like He binds his chest bc he still hadn't had top surgery but he's way more open about it, with the binding showing through the neck of the jacket now where he would have never dared to hint at it before,,, another thing about how he doesn't care about people's opinions and perceptions and standards anymore, he wants to say fuck you as much to everything in the system as he can and also piss people off while he's at it and a trans antihero/villain is a surefire way to do that. His dhoti is basically a dhoti pant, modified a bit bc i liked it

He has payals on his feet that make a faint chhan chhan noise when he approaches which has creepiness and cuteness potential imo I basically turned the prowler logo into his dhoti belt buckle askjdsjk

It's also slightly modified to mimic a trishul or even a diya shape, up for interpretation either way, bc trishuls are a symbol of Shiva, god of destruction, and diyas are a symbol of light in the darkness and the need to find it Also the chain around the dhoti at his hips is both a reference to decorative dhoti chain accessories and the lil things on it are his modified grenades that he uses for arson, bc Prowler Pav is big on arson and murder ajajsjsj

Prowler Claws -

His bangles/claws were hands down my favourite part to design!!

So his claws are of course his original spiderman bangles modified into the prowler claws But i based them on three weapons, each of which means something interesting for Pavitr

The first is bagh nakh. Literally translates to "tiger claws", famously used in a legend of Shivaji Maharaj They usually curl into the palm instead of going between the fingers like they do for Pav, but they're basically metal claws wound secretly around your hand for a sneak attack It's associated with bravery and righteous rage bc of Shivaji Maharaj but it's also really associated with stealth and an attack from unexpected quarters, being stabbed from a side no one saw coming. Which. Pavitr. The perfect hero, becoming the Prowler. Come on

Second is the trishul, aka trident That's the reason there are three prongs to his claw Trishul is the symbol of the god Shiva, and as i mentioned he's the god of destruction, as in he's part of the main triumvirate of gods who focus on creation preservation and destruction He also is really really associated with rage, especially destructive rage; he has a whole dance called the tandava for his rage which is a Huge Deal I can't stress this enough And because Prowler Pav is a being fuelled by rage against a system that has hurt so many including him that he wants to destroy and see burned, it is perfect for him The trishul is also seen as a symbol of goddess Kali, who's similar in the destruction goddess aspect and also is literally an embodiment of rage and violence that cannot be controlled which is more the theme I started out with, but whichever you notice first, it works either way. There's a whole myth in fact where Shiva had to lie beneath her feet to stop her destructive rampage before it ended the world.

And lastly, the urumi, aka the whip sword from Kerala Basically each of Prowler Pav's claws extend into whip swords when he does the swing/slash/whip motion This is really interesting at least to me, bc it means 2 things: 1) Pav still remembers and is actively using some of his skillset from swinging around as Spiderman. He does use the urumis to curl around distant objects and swing too, and they are very lethal weapons when used right, and that use requires a lot of skill, huge parts of which he built up by his experience 2) This is a weapon which requires an unimaginable amount of control, precision and strength And Pav is doing all that So all of his actions, every movement, is very deliberate and thought out. He's not doing any of this - turning away from heroism, becoming the Prowler, using these lethal weapons - on a whim. They are all very very deliberate.

Also one more thing - the blades of his claws are all retractable ofc But they are not protected or anything They slice up his palms and the in-betweens of his fingers whenever he uses them,, especially when he uses them as urumis And it would be so easy to fix the design or make gloves or smth so they don't do that But he doesn't ever do it He could make it so his hands don't bleed on using his claws But he doesn't want to

He is an angsty boyo...

Mask -

The eyes are ofc like the prowler mask design except I made them more curved and curled at the end bc that's a kind of shape often seen in traditional art of the headdress of Kali, goddess of uncontrollable violence as I've said before Then the part between them is meant to be based off a third eye, which is something both Shiva and Kali have. It opens at the height of their rage, it's meant to symbolise destructive fury for them both Although it's also used in an all seeing context otherwise but a lot of whitewashed bullshit is also there that dilutes sources to find connotations His theyyam-based tusks from his Spider-Man mask, I wanted to keep

The shape below the eyes is based off the noses in masks in various regional Indian tribal and traditional masks,,, a lot of them tend to have a very distinctive curly nose shape that I wanted to keep, a lot of these masks also depict rage or are intimidating and are very emotive And then ofc you have the bottom of the mask, I made the curved-ish cut based on the peacock-feather-y shape i was using but it's also based on the general shape of Kali's lips in traditional art where she has her tongue out, it's a big symbol of her rage and rampage I tried to put the tongue too but it looked awkward and honestly i thought it would be cooler to jsut leave the bottom half of the mask open and you can see Pav's mouth and his expressions through it a bit instead, in the spirit of that And also it's based a little bit off Krrish's mask, you can never escape the Krrish design Also there's the lil teeth. Those are often used in art for demons and animals,, and Prowler Pav is very cat coded in his behaviour in general tbh. He's like if an orange cat's fur got burned to black.

Anyway, so yeah, that's him!

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