#got a lot of dracula influences

[everlastingrandom]

I hope I live to see a Dracula adaptation brave enough to faithfully portray Texan cowboy Quincy P. Morris in all his fantastical glory

[alpaca-clouds]

Some historical context for Olrox

Okay, let me prephase this with one important message: Castlevania Nocturne made me really happy by making the plot all about colonialism, as colonialism and its fallout and how it influences us to this day is a topic that I am very passionate about. We do not talk enough about it. The US does not talk enough about it because it could make white people feel uncomfortable. And here in Germany we do not talk about it, because we act as if this had nothing to do with us at all.

But the show talks about it and I love it.

And I honestly also gotta say that I love that the BI_PoC character have a concrete cultural heritage. Olrox is Aztec, Annette is Yoruba, and Drolta is Egyptian. Other shows: Please take notes!

But let's talk Olrox, because he is so fucking interesting and amazing!

We know about him that he is Aztec and also that he is 250 years old. Or roughly that old by the time he kills Julia. Which would put either his birth or his turning somewhere around 1530.

Now, the fall of the Aztec Empire has a very exact date: August 13th, 1521. But you should keep in mind that this does not mean that on that day the Aztec's are extinct. To this day there is still 1,5 million people speaking Nahuatl, the language of the Aztecs, and preserving some of the Aztec cultural traditions. It was just that on that day the empire construct fell to Cortez and the Spaniad conquistadors and a lot of Aztecs went into exile to flee the genocide that Cortez was bringing upon them.

The question of course is: Was Olrox still human at this time or was he already a vampire? From his dialogue it is clear that he was at least alive and grown enough to remember the fall of the empire and the distruction Cortez and his men brought upon them. But you can bet it was very traumatic.

I also am assuming he was turned by a white man. Because so far my assumption is that vampirism is an old world thing that got brought to the new world through colonialism. (Mostly because in Dracula's court we do not see any new world vampires.)

Now, the other interesting thing is what he says about his dead lover. The one Julia killed. So, first the "town in Massachusetts" he speaks about is clearly Stockbridge. Which was the town in which many Mohicans have settled during the colonial times, as well as other people from the Iroquois Nations. Now, it should be noted that the Mohicans were not part of the Iroquois alliance and in fact went to war with the Iroquois, but by the time colonialism really geared up there was some cooperation between the Mohicans and Iroquois.

Due to this they were in an alliance with the Oneida (who were part of the Iroquois) by the time of the Revolutionary war. Now, the Revolutionary War created a lot of conflict between the Iroquois nations, because they did not agree which side they should fight on. Of course both sides promised that they could keep their land, but the Mohawk, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca did not trust the colonists and hence sided with the British, while the Oneida and Tuscarora (and through them also the Mohicans) sided with the Colonists.

And the dead lover clearly was among those siding with the colonists. Now, a quick refresher for the non-Americans (and the Americans who slept to history class, which is understandable). The Revolutionary War lasted from April 19, 1775 to September 3, 1783 (which, yes, also means that Julia and Richter probably were in the US during the war the entire time and the "evil" Julia was fighting probably was linked to it). And of course we all know how it ended for the Indigenous people: The colonists won, countless Indigenous folks died on both sides, only to get booted of their land soon after. The Oneida und Mohicans were made to move westwards not soon after the war ended. So, yes, Olrox would have seen that happen.

Now, an interesting thing in his dialogue was when Erzebet said: "We will create a new world." To which he replies: "I have heard that one before." And she says: "This time we are going to make it to last."

And the big question is to what this is refering. Is it refering to the colonialization or is it refering to the revolutionary war? Or something entirely different. In both cases it would be possible. And yes, the American Revolution definitely were claiming to create a new world. But was it that what he refered to or something else?

Well, never the less: Interesting character. Really good writing.

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

Finally got to see “Nosferatu” (2024) and what a masterpiece. Peak gothic horror, my teenage self came alive with this film. This is truly for the gothic horror, history and folklore enjoyers.

Eggers brings the audience into the Victorian era; not only visually but on the storytelling itself. There are so many layers happening here. This film is a meditation on sex and death, modernity and spirituality, science and superstition. It’s set in the 19th century, at the dawn of the modern Western world; and as Europeans move towards technology and science, they drift away from folklore and pagan religions. It’s no coincidence that Orlok comes into Germany to terrorize a city, the ultimate symbol of civilization.

Our protagonist Ellen is a seer, a medium, an “enchantress” like Orlok calls her, and even Von Franz recognizes she could have been a “Priestess of Isis” had she been born in pagan times. Unfortunately for Ellen, she was born in the “wrong era” and she’s brutally medicalized for her gifts, being diagnosed as a “melancholic hysteric somnambulist” aka hyper-sexual depressive and suicidal. She’s able to see beyond the realm of the living, which causes her to summon and awake Orlok from his centuries old nap, at the beginning of the movie, and develop a psychosexual connection with him; which is, indeed, what separates this story from the other “Dracula” adaptations.

Count Orlok is the archetypal Death, here; which culminates with the “Death and the Maiden” motif at the end. This was a very popular Art History archetype around the so-called “Plague years” (14th to 16th century) in Europe, and it’s often connected with other motifs like “Danse Macabre” and “Memento Mori”. It has several meanings depending on the author intent, usually a reminder of our mortality, but also a meditation on sex and death, as in the French “la petite mort” (“little death”), the post-orgasm sensation, sexual release potentially causing temporary loss of consciousness (fainting) or dizziness. In the Medieval Ages, physicians believed orgasms could lead to death because they drained the “life force” from the body. This was when the term “petite mort” was created, and this belief persisted into the Renaissance and beyond. In “Nosferatu” this probably translates in the sexual pleasure that Orlok imprints on his victims as he drains their life force.

Thomas is a ambitious young man who marries Ellen, and he craves the status and the money his long-friend Friedrich Harding has. At Thomas’ side, Ellen “gifts” appear to have been blocked, and she’s able to lead a “normal life”. This caused her to developed a somewhat co-dependent relationship with him. And this makes me ask: does Ellen truly loves him or does she loves the idea of herself with him? Ellen profound need to feel loved also extends to her friendship with Anna, and she even thanks her for loving her. This is also a desire she expresses to Orlok, as she accuses him of being incapable of loving her (in the human sense), this being the reason for her resisting to succumb to his offer (Thomas loves her, he doesn’t).

Many interpretations have been brought forward about Ellen story (abuse, grooming, etc.), personally I disagree. I see it as a metaphorical story of depression (Ellen not only gets diagnosed with “melancholy”, the Victorian equivalent for “Depression”, but she also presents a lot of synonyms of Bordeline Personality Disorder), and how it can wreck havoc on the lives of those around us when the proper medical treatment is not available, and it culminates with Ellen joining Orlok/Death = committing suicide. Like Orlok himself, she can never be satiated with the world of the living, and finds fulfillment in death, and him as a “past lover” can be interpreted not only with suicidal ideation but actual attempts.

The influence of Grand Guignol theatre is also visible in some scenes, where horror and comedy are blended. Some scenes are indeed very theatrical and this seems intentional.

Personally, I didn’t find this film scary (as in terrifying). It’s macabre and eerie, for sure. Visually, it’s stunning. Amazing cinematography, very atmospheric and dream-like. Customs and sets are incredible. A feast for historians like myself. I was gushing over the medieval architecture of Orlok castle because of course I was. The attention to detail in this film is incredible. I absolutely loved Orlok character design as the “Renaissance plague carrier”.

[romnianistan]

@joannerowling

[Introduction]

While many articles have been written about Harry Potter and the school board genre or its relationship to fantasy, very few people have looked into the influence of the Gothic in Harry Potter (or in JKR's works in general). Part of it I think is due to the depreciation of Harry Potter by the cultural bourgeoisie, who only regard it as mere children's books that don't hold any actual literary value and that aren't worth to be studied seriously. Yet many tropes, storylines and plot devices used by JKR draw inspiration from the Gothic genre, bringing to it a modern twist by both adverting and subverting Gothic clichés. This inspiration is apparent in JKR's focus on broken families stuck into a cycle of poverty and violence involving incest and alcoholism or in the settings of many of the most iconic scenes of her book (to me the situation of Merope Gaunt, the way she's treated by her male relatives and the description of her house clearly allude to that of Catherine Linton at Wuthering Heights). In another (badly written) post, I tried to argue that one example of such a subversion in JKR's works was her use of the Gypsy theme -- Romani people as the embodiement of marginality, social and sexual danger as well as oriental mysticism --, a trope of Gothic literature most notably used by Emily Brontë in Wuthering Heights and Victor Hugo in the Hunchback of Notre-Dame, and that's been studied by Ken Lee in his article on Gypsylorism. But while JKR never once mentions Romani people in the Harry Potter series (an omission that is very interesting in itself; she's leaving out of her series the ethnic group that's been associated the most with witchcraft in folk tales for centuries, even though she's drawing inspiration from European folklore), she does mention them a bit in The Casual Vacancy and a lot in Cormoran Strike. However, as opposed to Wuthering Heights and HoND, Romani people aren't actually associated with paganism in JKR's books (they would have if she had been racist); their mention serves a Gothic aesthetic purpose as the non-Romani pov character starts thinking about Gypsy witchcraft and wandering, but that romanticising is quickly destroyed once the narrative brings up the actual reality of what it means to be Romani(-adjacent) in the UK: poverty and social exclusion. (In my opinion, this is a subtle commentary on how rich people idealize wanderness and poverty despite their being trauma-inducing experiences for the people who experience them.)

In my opinion, another influence of the Gothic is also the character dynamic she builds around Harry and Voldemort. In three different ways, the Harry/Voldemort dynamic parallels that of Dracula and Mina Harker in Bram Stoker's Dracula: first, the in-narrative construction of that dynamic; second, the way that character dynamic is used as a plot device by both Stoker and JKR in their respective works; third, the significance/symbolism of that character dynamic.

1. The narrative build up

In both Dracula and HP, the psychic bond that unites Mina/Harry and Dracula/Voldemort is created in spite of Dracula and Voldemort. In Dracula, that bond is an inevitable consequence/side effect of the repeated blood sucking Dracula does on Mina. In HP, that bond is created despite the knowledge of Voldemort and as a consequence of Voldemort's murder attempt.

In both stories, that bond was created/reinforced by blood mixing. In Dracula, blood mixing allows Dracula to link his mind directly with Mina's. In HP, that bond becomes much stronger after the graveyard scene, when Voldemort also uses Harry's blood to regain life. In both cases, we have blood magic and DNA mixing involved, resulting in an identity crisis on the part of Harry/Mina (their sense of self is eroded after the distinction between their body and that of Dracula/Voldemort got blurred and as the emotions/thoughts of the other start influencing theirs).

Dracula forms a psychic bond with Mina Harker as a step towards mind control. He wants to read, manipulate and control her mind and her thoughts, and in particular, he wants to use it to spy on his enemies (Jonathan and Van Helsing). However, he is forced to block the link when he realizes that, if he can spy on the heroes through Mina, Mina can spy on him as well by being put into a hypnotic trance that allows her to sense Dracula and his surroundings and can feel how far away or how close he is to them. This is what eventually leads the heroes to Dracula and allows them to catch him.

In Harry Potter as well, Dumbledore fears that psychic link would be used by Voldemort to spy on the Order of the Phoenix through Harry. This is why Dumbledore ignores and isolates Harry for an entire year and this is also what prompted Dumbledore to get Snape to teach Occlumency to Harry -- to block Voldemort's thoughts. But Voldemort doesn't actually use the link to spy. afaik he only uses it twice: once to deceive Harry and get him to come to the Ministry of Magic, and once at the very end of OotP when he briefly takes control of Harry's body. But Harry (just like Mina) realizes he can use that link to his own advantage and spy back on Voldemort (he repeatedly does so in DH): just like Mina, Harry is able to feel what he feels, to hear his thoughts and to sense how far or how close he is.

So we have a similar process following the same steps: evil blood magic on the part of an unwilling villain first, blurring of identity second. In both stories, the psychic link serves as a war strategy playing out over a deep identity crisis. The difference is that this process spans 4 books and 13 years in Harry Potter, with many more smaller steps in between, but overall it's still the same structure.

2. The Harry/Voldemort (Mina/Dracula) dynamic as a plot device

Because everyone uses the psychic link to spy on the other, it becomes a power play for the two characters involved, symbolically representing the struggle between life and death (love and hatred). But it also serves a narrative purpose: both stories are written from the perspective of the heroes. By introducing the psychic link as a plot device, the reader can get some insight into the pov of the villain of the series. The psychic link then becomes a way to drive the action: after each discovery, the character (be it Mina, Harry, Dracula or Voldemort) takes action. They plan a fight/battle, they track each other or they fly from each other. With the psychic link, the writer (Stoker/Rowling) is able to write very cool descriptive scenes from a totally different perspective, taking place in a totally different setting we don't normally see otherwise (think of the description of the Riddle House at the beginning of GoF -- an apparition that is justified in-narrative by its being shown to Harry in a dream). In both Dracula and HP, the psychic link also allows the writer to write dialogues that have more to do with the mystery genre than the fantasy genre (what's the villain doing? are we sure that information is legit? who is he talking to?) Finally, and even if we have to wait a few chapters for it, it leads to the introduction of battle scenes.

So both Dracula and HP use the psychic link as a plot device in a similar way: 1. it drives the action by justifying the writing of descriptive scenes, action scenes and dialogues, 2. it makes the story even more compelling for the reader who gets to hear the exclusive thoughts of the villain in a setting we are not used to (the villain's lair!) so those scenes feel special and cool, 3. it allows the writer to diverisfy the genre of their book by introducing new elements taken from the mystery genre.

3. The symbolic of that relationship

Voldemort, just like Dracula, is an undead being, a living dead. While Voldemort himself isn't a zombie (an "inferi"), a ghost or a vampire, he does surround himself with them and his physical description is very much akin to that of the undead. Two of his most significant features are his paleness (also a recurrent adjective to describe ghosts) and his long, spidery fingers, which together can be used to describe both Voldemort and Nosferatu:

(book!voldemort literally looks like this bad guy over there ^ but without a nose and with red eyes -- and this is why he haunts my sleep sometimes!! that character design fucks)

Symbolically as well, Voldemort is an undead being, a living dead, as it says in his very name ("fleeing death", "flight from/of death"). In his backstory as well, Voldemort became twice a living dead. First, by spiritually killing himself and rendering his soul to the dark arts in pursuit of immortality (in much the same way vampires render their soul to the devil). Second, by falling victim to his own Avada Kedavra spell in Godric's Hollow. (Harry is an example of how one survives the Avada Kedavra; I wouldn't say Voldemort survived it considering all the (physical, if not spiritual) remnants of his past humanity were completely destroyed by it.)

More specifically, Voldemort is a vampire: in his very first apparition in the series, he is seen drinking the lifeblood of a living creature (a unicorn). All throughout the series, Voldemort is the undead that needs to feast on others to survive, by exploiting his followers (in the years following Godric's Hollow, he only survives by drawing on the life force of Quirrell and by living as a parasite with Pettigrew), by living on the terror he inspires to other people, and by turning other living beings (Nagini and Harry) into horcruxes (the same way a vampire would turn the human he drinks the blood of into another vampire). Of course, the number 1 inspo for Voldemort is the boogeyman: everyone in the wizarding world is scared to say his name in case he might literally materialize out of thin air. But he is not described (narratively, physically) as any boogeyman, he is specifically the vampire.

Just as Voldemort is Dracula, Harry is Mina Harker: a human being who represents life. Both Harry and Mina carry a part of Voldemort/Dracula's inside of them, and both of them are scared of eventually becoming like them. Both Harry and Mina survived their confrontations with Voldemort/Dracula thanks to the help of their friends (love and friendship trumping death). Both of them are also common human beings who have been involuntarily turned into something so much more unique by the very assault they survived. The way they responded to it (opposing hatred with love and bravery) turned them into something so much more important than mere human beings: they became symbols inspiring strength to others around them. And all throughout the story, both Mina and Harry retain that common-ness, it is repeatedly stated by both Stoker and JKR, in-narrative, that the only thing that sets them apart from others is Mina/Harry's ability to feel empathy and to draw strength from the love of others.

In the novel, Mina openly feels pity for Dracula - not for the monster that he is but for his soul, explicitly questioning whether it might want to find peace. In the last two books of the HP series, Harry also takes on a similar stance with regards to Voldemort. Dumbledore's last teaching was that Voldemort was someone to be pitied (don't feel pity for the dead but for those who live without love), and even though pity doesn't excuse evil, it gives us the moral ground to be better people and create a better world. This was also Dumbledore's most important teaching, the one Harry only fully understands by the end of Deathly Hallows, when he confronts Voldemort and says the only thing that sets him apart from others and that makes him stronger than Voldemort is the love he feels (only understanding this after spending the entire book trying to figure out why hadn't Dumbledore left a strong weapon, like the elder wand, for him in his will).

So in both their moral complexity wrt to the villain and in the ideals they represent, Harry and Mina are very similar. I would finally add that both of them represent vulnerable groups of people (children and women) who are victims of male/patriarchal violence: Harry (a 14yo boy) is abducted and tortured by Voldemort (an adult male) in Goblet of Fire, while Mina is metaphorically raped by Dracula. It's a bit tangential but I think it's another interesting parallel between these two; in all of her books, JKRowling often associates the harm men do to women to the harm fathers(/male authority figures) do to children and the way Voldemort repeatedly tortured, abducted and tried to kill Harry from age 0 to age 17 could also be one of the ways she builds on that social commentary.

[Conclusion]

=> So narratively, I would say JKR drew inspiration from Dracula when designing the Harry/Voldemort bond. In Dracula and HP, that link is established in pretty much the same way: through blood magic, DNA mixing and resort to the dark arts. It is repeatedly reinforced throughout the story following the encounters of Mina/Harry and Dracula/Voldemort, and it serves as a war strategy between the two of them as everyone involved realizes they can use it to spy on the other, leading to the ultimate demise of the villain. When it comes to character growth, the psychic link also works in the same way: it leads to emotional/mental/psychological distress for Harry/Mina who is scared to become evil too. Structurally as well, JKR used a plot device identical to that developed by Stoker in Dracula to create the Harry/Voldemort dynamic. The psychic link introduces a POV-shift in a book series that's otherwise almost exclusively written from the good guy's pov, drives the action by leading to descriptive/action scenes and dialogues, and makes the story more entertaining for the reader. Thematically, I would also say JKR drew inspiration from Dracula when creating Voldemort and Harry as characters. In the books, Voldemort represents a vampiric living dead boogeyman who rendered his soul in search of immortality (just like Dracula), while Harry represents the hidden force of life and love that lies inside the most common of people (like Mina).

[dartxo]

Nosferatu (2024)

(beware of spoilers)

I have watched Robert Eggers' Nosferatu two times now, after waiting excitedly for its release for many months. Needless to say, it lived up to my expectations, and exceeded them even. I loved it. It was a masterful, artful blend of Bram Stoker's novel, the 1922 film, a bit of the 1979 film, and other iterations of the Dracula story, whilst feeling authentic, fresh and original at the same time.

The overall atmosphere in the film was terrific. Everything, from the performances, the cinematography, and the set design, all contributed to an oppressive, claustrophobic, rank feeling.

Count Orlok looked and sounded amazing. The deep, guttural, heavily accented voice; the raspy, sickly breath; the disgusting noises he made as he gorged himself with blood; you felt all that in the stomach. I love the nods to early vampire folklore, like him being a rotting corpse, or him feeding by biting the chest instead of the neck. And perhaps most of all, I love that they gave him a big, bushy, fierce looking mustache. A source of deep annoyance for me in most Dracula screen adaptations I've seen is that the Count almost never looks like he's described in the book. I can't explain how much I appreciate that they made more of an effort this time. Admittedly though, this vampire, like Max Schreck's version, looks a lot more foul than the Dracula from the book. But I'm not complaining. He positively oozed with evil, and I loved it. And I really liked that, until the sun shines on him at the final scene, we never see his full features all that clearly. He is always shrouded in darkness and shadow. Maybe I would have liked if they had done something to his eyes, either making them cloudy and dull like a corpse or shiny like a predatory animal at night. But Bill Skarsgård's fixed, intense stare does the trick just fine. He wouldn't be out of place in a silent horror film.

I loved the callbacks to the 1922 film. A lot of the shots mirrored the ones in the original very well, like the carriage coming to collect Hutter in the forest, and of course Orlok's shadow creeping across Ellen's house. And I also loved the little homages here and there to the original cast and crew: Ellen's cat is named Greta after the 1922 actress, and the Van Helsing character is named Albin after the 1922 producer and production designer. The contract that Orlok makes Hutter sign is also written in the same strange, occult language as the contract in the original film. Great attention to detail. And I appreciate that Ellen's psychic connection to Orlok, hinted at but not really explained in the 1922 Nosferatu, got expanded upon here.

The nods to the book were great too: the Count's command of the wolves, and his pride in his heritage; the old innkeeper giving Hutter a crucifix and begging him not to go; Hutter trying to kill Orlok in the castle crypt, and later committing himself to destroying him to protect and free his wife from his influence. And I also really liked that in contrast to the 1922 film, but more in line with the novel, the side characters have more of a personality, and more to say and to do. The original film centers more on Hutter at the beginning, then he takes the back seat and the focus shifts to Ellen, with Orlok and Knock serving as antagonists, but the other characters not doing or saying much. In this Nosferatu, like in the book, the characters form a small vampire-hunting crew, and that was very neat. And the scene with Harding at the crypt felt somewhat reminiscent of the scene in the book where Arthur stakes Lucy, in a morbid, macabre sort of way.

Maybe I wish there had been more scenes at the castle and on the ship (hoping we get those in the announced extended edition). Some inclusion of the three vampire sisters from the novel would have been interesting, but not really necessary. And part of me wishes Orlok had burst into flames, or vanished in a puff of smoke after being hit by the sun. But blood bursting out of his body as he died, and him reverting to a lifeless, inanimate corpse is in tune with folklore too. And in any case, that final shot of his dry, shriveled body lying on top of Ellen, with flowers on the bed, was a beautiful way to end the film. It looked like a painting.

All in all, it was a beautiful, amazing, haunting film to watch. To me, it's probably the best vampire film since its 1922 predecessor. True to the spirit of the original Nosferatu, and the original Dracula, and I really couldn't have asked for more.

[vickyvicarious]

so weird how jonathan had no reaction at all to renfield yesterday... it was almost as if he wasn't there at all, and seeing renfield like that SHOULD have elicited at least SOME reaction in him. i genuinely think he should have vouched for renfield or at least tried to, even if he didn't tell anyone how much renfield reminded him of himself

I totally agree.

I truly do think that Stoker really just forgot that he'd written Jonathan as included in that scene. His complete silence throughout and the lack of any mention at all from either Jack or Renfield really just don't seem likely to me. Admittedly, Jonathan is quieter around the other men as a rule, and Renfield might not have known enough about him in particular to try and curry his favor. But Jack not introducing him really seals the deal for me. That would seem like such a weird and deliberate snub if Jonathan were actually there.

If Jonathan didn't see the man in person, then I find his reaction afterwards a lot easier to believe. All he says about it himself is, "We were, I think, all a little upset by the scene with Mr. Renfield. When we came away from his room we were silent till we got back to the study." Even in the ensuing conversation about it, with other people admitting they feel bad, he's totally silent. I find him just being unsettled and vaguely distressed about it but still dismissing the man as "mad"/an agent of Dracula totally believable... but only if he didn't see or hear him during that conversation.

Of course, we could consider that these men are all but strangers to Jonathan right now. He doesn't know them well, but he has read Jack's diary. He has seen how he treats (at least some) madmen under his care. Jonathan has only just gotten confirmation in his own mind that he didn't go completely mad himself for months, and he still definitely suffered from that brain-fever and is still suffering from PTSD. Maybe he doesn't feel like he can speak up, lest he himself get dismissed as being mad himself, or even just too emotional to be trustworthy to help in the vampire hunt. Maybe he doesn't even feel like he can write down any reservations he might have had, because the others are probably going to read this journal. Maybe his lack of reaction in the room was because he was having a flashback and going quiet and still, and none of the others knew him well enough to really notice, and then later on he didn't want to bring it up at all. Maybe there's a way you could justify it somehow.

I personally still feel like he would have said something more somewhere. A question if it would really harm things to at least move Renfield elsewhere to remove him from the Count's influence. Or at the very least some comment in his writing, even if just trying to convince himself the agreed-upon decision is the correct one (as we see him repeatedly doing about keeping Mina out of things). I just can't reconcile Jonathan being there with his utter nonreaction. And Renfield's lack of reaction to him too.

[chaos0pikachu]

Trends in BL (Sorta): Genre Trends

So I've seen a few posts discussing trends in BL and I wanted to talk about that from a different angle. Specifically discussing what trends are, how they're formed, and to not remove BL from the rest of their countries own media.

The latter is something I see a lot when discussing BL this kind've ~separation of church and state~ but it's BL and Country's General Media. As though BL lives in a separate bubble outside of all other media and thus never influenced by the media being made in its country of origin nor the countries they share direct borders or trade with. Or all influence began and ended with seme/uke dynamics imported from Japan and nothing beyond that (no, Pit Babe was more than likely not inspired by Supernatural) and it's been static ever since.

All of that is, untrue, but also a really limited way of viewing international media. These countries are places with their own history, culture, politics, and of course, media arts. BL is a part of all of that. Which also effects the trends and potential trends we'll see in BL individually (as it's going to change country to country with some crossover).

I think a way of identifying trends in BL and also the root of those trends is by looking at the media of the country of origin their surrounding countries, and what BLs have unprecedented success and what has the industry learned from them?

So I'm gonna break this down by: genre, technical and business trend(s) in 3 part posts. In this post I'm just going to talk about genre trends in Thai and Korean BL as that's what I'm most familiar with.

Basically this post got hella long, I'm not in college anymore, and my motivation was tied to the length of my Jennifer Hudson Best Of playlist. So I had to split it up, es lo que es.

[This will not be a comprehensive list of like all BL trends ever respect to y'all who do but I do not and will not watch every BL in existence, bendicion]

To start we gotta talk first about how trends in media tend to work and also what we mean by "trends". Because there's genre trends, technical trends, and business trends.

Here's a good article breaking down various aspects of all three. When we talk "trends" in film it's not as simplistic as "office romances" or "cross country remakes" of which, one is a genre trend and the latter a business trend.

Some examples of what I mean:

Shared Universe (genre trend)

3d boom (technical trend, trended a few times in the industry, first in the 1950s until the 1960s and then again in the early 2000s until the mid 00s thanks to James Cameron)

Remakes/Reboots (business trend, this is a business based decision b/c the risk threshold for a pre-established work is lower than for an original work that may or may not have financial data backing it)

Trends in media, whether they are genre, business, technical or a combination, tend to take time to build up, and also tend last much longer than a singular year (generally for as long as something is profitable).

Example: it took time for the Shared Universe genre trend to gain traction.

Batman v Superman (2016) wasn't released until five years after Avengers (2012). Following this, The Mummy (2017) starring Tom Cruise was meant to kickstart Universal's The Dark Universe was released six years after Avengers. Before that Dracula Untold (2014) was supposed to be reworked to also start The Dark Universe (both these films flopped so no Dark Universe, rip).

Since the Avengers release, we have the shared universes of: Monsterverse (which combines Godzilla and Kong franchises together, technically started in 2014, officially started in 2017 with Kong Skull Island), and the Sony Spiderverse (Venom, Spider-man, Madam Web, Mobius lol) and The Conjuring Universe (Annabelle, La Llorona, The Conjuring, The Nun).

It's been almost 12 years since Avengers was released (fuckin'a) and we're only now starting to see some minor diminishing returns (Disney had a horrid year financially last year) for this genre trend, and not even across the board.

I want to iterate that Avengers did not 'invent' the idea of a cross-franchise shared universe. Things like Xena and Hercules, or Hanna Barbara cartoons existed long before the Avengers. However the Avengers kickstarted a genre trend in film. Just because a piece of media started a trend does not mean it invented the genre or technical innovation (James Cameron didn't "invent" 3D but he did revolutionize it with Avatar and I suffered through many 3D horror movies because of it).

[I point this out because sometimes ppl be getting testy when ppl say kinnporsche influenced the increase in mafia/crime BLs with well, um, actually history trapped/manner of death came first - yes, yes we know this. And Bi No Isu came out before all of them so everybody drink some tea and relax, everybody's faves are pretty okay😘]

Okay to let's get to what ppl actually wanna talk about, BL.

(Some) Genre trend(s) in Thailand and Korea:

In Thai BL genre trends I'm noticing are: horror, supernatural, paranormal, action crime, and magic/magical realism. A lot of these crossover, horror shows typically are also paranormal - Ghost House Ghost House (2022), After Sundown (2023) - supernatural shows tend to cross over with magical realism like time travel, or other soft magic elements - Time (2024), I Feel You Linger in the Air (2023), Cherry Magic (2023).

For the horror, supernatural/paranormal genre trend, this isn't at all surprising if you look at Thailand's recent film output from 2020 to 2023: The Medium, The Whole Truth, Ghost Lab, Haunted Tales, Cracked, Death Whisperer, Home for Rent, The Maid, Waning Moon, School Tales, and others, are all horror, paranormal, or supernatural films of some sort.

The horror genre trend especially has been around Thailand for a while, as far back as 2018 with the smash success of Girl from Nowhere which only gained a larger following when it hit Netflix in 2021. I'd almost argue the horror genre trend really picked up with Girl From Nowhere as now one of the main acquisitions of Thai series and film on Netflix are of the horror genre.

That larger media trend is now trickling down into BL with series like: Shadow (2023), After Sundown (2023), Dead Friend Forever (2023) and upcoming projects like Vampire Project.

While supernatural/paranormal series like Ghost House Ghost House (2022), 1000 Years Old (2024), I Feel You Linger in the Air (2023), Two Worlds (2024), Golden Blood (2024?) are increasing. OMG! Vampire (TBD?) will at least be supernatural but we can't say with certainty if OMGV will be horror or not as we only have a poster.

I imagine with the success of Dead Friend Forever, and I Feel You Linger in the Air we'll see the trend of horror and supernatural/paranormal series (I know some have already been announced) continued.

Then there's the genre trend towards more action and crime focused series; which more than often crossover but not all~ the time.

In terms of the increase in crime based Thai BLs I'd argue it was a joint combo of Kinnporsche's (2022) wild skyrocketed success, and the success of Manner of Death (2020). Alongside the influence of rise of crime and thrillers from Korean media (The Gangster, the Cop and the Devil (2019) and Unstoppable (2018))

Manner of Death I'd argue influenced projects like Never Let Me Go (2022), Unforgotten Night (2022), and Big Dragon (2022) if only because of their release times and taking into account the time it takes for a production to film and be edited down.

Whilst all these series came out after Kinnporsche - NLMG released a trailer in Nov, Big Dragon in Oct, and Unforgotten Night in Jun, while Kinnporsche dropped their trailer in Apr - they're series releases are so close to Kinnporsche that I don't feel confident in saying Kinnporsche 100% influenced their acquisition. Ngl it's hard not to see influences of KPTS in at least Big Dragon & Unforgotten Night if only in terms of technical film making, so there could~ be influence but I can't say that definitively. I'm gonna attribute these to Manner of Death since it came out two years prior to these other series.

Meanwhile series both released and unreleased My Gangster Oppa (2023), Red Peafowl (TBD?), Chains of Heart (2023), Kidnap (TBD?), are def riding the crime genre trend that Kinnporsche started and I'd argue series like Pit Babe (2023), Playboyy (2023) were acquired for production in part because of the crime elements included in their respective series.

Meanwhile series like Law of Attraction (2023) (crime/action) and The Sign (2023) (crime/action/supernatural) are combining crime, action and supernatural elements together.

I've said before Kinnporsche takes a lot of cues from Korean and Hong Kong crime films like Jet Li's The Enforcer, and Fist of Legend, Donnie Yen's Flash Point, Raging Fire, and Kung Fu Jungle, Han Dong-wook's The Worst of Evil, Kim Jin-Min's My Name, along with Japanese manga like Bi No Isu and KeixYaku.

Meanwhile The Sign is def taking cues from Chinese costume dramas like Ashes of Love, Fairy and Devil, White Snake (and it's many adaptions), Guardian, & Ying Yang Master Dream of Eternity. Alongside Hong Kong and Korean cop and romance shows like Tale of the Nine-Tailed, Hotel Del Luna, Director Who Buys Me Dinner, First Love, Again.

[I think the only reason Thailand or Korea hasn't jumped on the full fantasy train and pulled an Untamed is because of budget. The Sign has done very well for Idol Factory so I could see more studios trying to go in that fantasy direction if they can get the funding for it.]

Meanwhile shows like Time (2024), Two Worlds (2024), and Cherry Magic (2023) are leaning more into a combination of magical realism and a supernatural. Which is something that's been popular in Korea (Mr. Queen (2020), The King Eternal Monarch (2020)) in the past and obviously Japan (Cherry Magic (2020).

This, again, isn't a fully comprehensive list. I'm sure there's shows I've missed, and there's going to be evergreen genres that are always produced - university, high school, office all with a general romcom flavor - because they're cheap, easy, low risk and for the most part reliable.

That's not an insult to shows like Cherry Magic TH, or Middleman's Love or Cooking Crush or whatever.

Cooking Crush is just going to cost way less than The Sign it's simply a fact. Likewise Middleman's Love cost less than The Next Prince (TBD?) and was less risk as an office romcom. What helps offset the risk of something like The Next Prince is casting Zee and NuNew in the lead roles.

[watch these two trailers and tell me they cost the same]

Think of it of like, the 50 cop procedural dramas networks are always churning out; they do so because they're cheap, easy, low risk, and reliable.

Gmmtv made Cherry Magic not for the art of it all but because it was low risk and low cost to produce with a high value return. I imagine that's also why gmmtv cast Tay and New because while I don't know who the hell they are, lots of folks in BL fandom do because of Dark Blue Kiss and the reuniting of a well liked costars will also help offset financial risk for the project. Studios will often only greenlight a project if "a name" is attached to said project.

Anyways, Korea's turn.

The data for Korea is less because Korea comes out with fewer series than Thailand. Like currently Thailand has 9 ongoing BLs in 2024 while Korea has 1 (oh City Boy Log you lonely thing you).

For Korean BLs I'm still seeing mostly evergreen genre trends: the workplace (The New Employee, Oh! My Assistant, Roommates of Ponngduck 304,), high school/university (Light On Me, Cherry Blossoms After Winter, Semantic Error, Love Class, Love for Love's Sake) and Joseon (Nobleman Ryu's Wedding, Tinted With You, Director Who Buys Me Dinner) romances - which make sense, a lot of these were the trends of romance kdramas in the early to mid-00s.

What I am hoping, is we'll start seeing the acquisition of KBLs that are closer to what's currently trending in Korea: revenge (Revenge of Others, The Glory, Marry My Husband, Perfect Marriage Revenge), thrillers (My Name, Midnight, Somebody, Celebrity, Mask Girl), more class based social commentary (Devil Judge, Golden Spoon, Vigilante, Kingdom), and an increase in both sex and violence (Somebody, A Shop for Killers).

I could totally see more revenge based KBLs in the coming years since revenge and thriller shows can be combined pretty easily and you don't need a huge budget for either. You can also set them in evergreen settings like the workplace (Marry My Husband) or high school/uni (Revenge of Others).

KBLs have mostly stuck with evergreen settings with a couple outliers like Kissable Lips (2022), Once Again (2022) for example. I enjoyed Love for Love's Sake but it stuck in that evergreen space of school based romance, with magical realism. Again, not surprising given KBLs are just following trends of romance kdramas of the past.

Whilst not a bad~~~ thing, it can be a bit stale and hopefully with a bit more budget/investment we'll see the acquisition of series that are more in line with what's trending with Korean audiences currently.

There's other things I'd like to see develop into trends for KBLs but they're mostly technical and business trends.

That's all I got in the tank, this post took me almost six hours to write b/c of all the sourcing and research I'm freaking peeked.

See y'all next time ✌️

Check out other posts in the series:

Film Making? In My BL? - The Sign ep01 Edition | Aspect Ratio in Love for Love's Sake | Cinematography in My BL - Our Skyy2 vs kinnporsche, 2gether vs semantic error, 1000 Stars vs The Sign | How The Sign Uses CGI | Is BL Being Overly Influenced by Modern Western Romance Tropes?

[like these posts? drop me a couple pennies on ko-fi]

[beevean]

I absolutely adore the way you write Hecula - oftentimes so tender, gentle and delicious, despite the lingering darker vibes in their dynamic. Before I found your writing I would have never considered the aspect of pseudo-incest for them (apologies, feel free to blame it on netflixvania) but i fell forever in love with your series and the way you portray their relationship. Please never stop creating <3

🥺

I was planning to take a break from them, and now I'm getting swarmed with fanart and appreciation... I was the one dragging people in hell, and now I'm getting dragged back myself 🥺

It's funny because I actually had something of a "conflict" about the psuedo-incest angle on Twitter. I made a post about why I like Hecula, and someone was like "didn't Dracula raise Hector since he was a child? I think it makes more sense in the show", I was like "yes, the grooming is horrible and part of my vision, because Dracula giving Hector part of his power and trying to turn him into an extension of himself is important to me. I don't like their relationship in the show because while Hector is shown to care for his Lord, I resent how little Dracula respects Hector", and they were like "I'm sorry but this crosses lines that I can't support."

And you know, I understand. Admittedly, I'm scared when people have this reaction now because you never know if they mean "I don't support this content" and "I don't support you and I think you're a bad person and I'm going to warn everyone about your degeneracy", but I fully understand if people are simply squicked out and don't want to engage. But it really does matter to me lol. Without going too much into detail, the pseudo-incest represents to me the selfish smothering that prevents the "child" from becoming their true self, a theme I am very interested in exploring. also it's hot okay let me enjoy the hot things maybe i like writing drac as a bastard without morals >:(

So yeah, for multiple reasons, I got too wrapped up in the symbolism of Dracula giving his powers to Hector, favoring Hector (who coincidentally looks a lot like him) for his skills, Hector choosing him as his Lord of his own volition but also desperation, the theme of "conditional love is still love", Hector seeing Dracula as a human which means worthy of respect and love but also flawed which leads to his growth, the mentor corrupting the protégé into committing all sorts of sins, said protégé finding the strength to love himself more than the one who hurt him with his affections, Dracula's influence on Hector beyond his grave (like the way he sits on chairs, or the way he loves Rosaly :3c). It's a horrible, toxic relationship built on power imbalance and taking advantage of a poor boy who just wanted a home and perhaps even filling the gap left by Lisa, and thankfully you get to play the divorce yourself lmao, but I find it bittersweet and desperate in a way that I personally think is understandable, given the circumstances of both. It could just be "vampire bastard fucks with his pretty boy" lmao, but, uh. I thought too hard about it, and now I'm 32 fics and a new WIP deep 😔

agghhhhh I rant a lottttt thank you so much for your lovely message! I really like your description - "tender, gentle and delicious, despite the lingering darker vibes", yes this is what I strive for! The twisted gentleness! The genuine care that comes from a dark place! You flatter me and motivate me 💖

[strange-destinations]

Kitty can I please request the Mysterious Benedict Society squad (all of them, not just the main four) as to ''who will survive castle dracula''?

(......I initially meant ''the Benedict twins and Rhonda and Number Two and Milligan and SQ'' when I said ''all of them,'' but ngl a hilarious bonus question is ''if the ten men got trapped there too what chaos would ensue'' so I'm gonna add that on as well XD)

sigh, here we go. @canyourfavesurvivecastledracula, tell me if you want me to stop tagging you.

Overall, I don't think many of the characters in the Mysterious Benedict Society series have a really huge belief in the supernatural regarding vampires and things that go bump in the night.... but then again, a lot of the plot revolves around a machine that influences everybody with subliminal psychic messages, and also there's a toddler who's inexplicably naturally psychic. And everyone pretty much takes all of this as 'a bit strange! But okay, I'll believe it!' So in general let's assume a baseline of, 'sure, vampires, why not' from the entire cast.

okay, let's go kids first. That's right, we're subjecting children to the horrors of Castle Dracula.

Reynie Muldoon - is very much a Jonathan Harker-like kid to start with, actually. May accept the crucifix out of politeness. Most likely to be able to hold Dracula's attention in conversation. I feel like Dracula is like Mr Curtain in a lot of respects, and the vibes between Reynie and him would be similar. Many tense, charged games of chess may occur. I believe in his ability to survive the psychological torment, because he's got a hell of a strong will, but I don't believe in his physical ability to escape. Either the GFs get him or Dracula himself does.

Kate Wetherall - would accept the crucifix, not out of any particular politeness or religious belief, but just because you never know when you might need a handy cross-shaped trinket! Into the bucket it goes! Least likely to hold Dracula's attention, she's way too ADHD and not really the sort of person who'd interest him apart from being an adrenaline-filled bloodbag. MOST likely to stage a daring escape using the contents of her bucket, which Dracula will not be able to steal or throw out the window because of the crucifix handily concealed within. Most likely of all the kids to survive this.

Sticky Washington - oh boy, Sticky. His encyclopedic knowledge of vampire lore will probably give him a bit of an edge... but not much. Sticky on-his-own isn't brave enough to go exploring/sneaking around extensively unless things get really dire. And Dracula himself would scare the shit out of Sticky to the point of near-nonresponsiveness, to the point where I don't think Sticky would seem that interesting to Drac after a while. Would a photographic memory and lots of vampire trivia help him survive? Probably, for a while. Would it help him escape? Probably not. Sticky's only sticking around in Castle Dracula for a little bit. Also Dracula would smash his glasses 'by accident' as a power play.

Constance Contraire - grumpy toddler showing up to Castle Dracula?Cool, it's basically vampire DoorDash! ...would be Dracula's first thought - before he realizes that she's psychic. Constance doesn't have a lot going for her, all things told. She's not particularly physically able, she's obstinate and stubborn and not a great conversationalist, I doubt she'd take the crucifix out of that same stubbornness, and also she'd compose some really unflattering slam poetry about Dracula, Dracula's castle, Dracula's girlfriends, etc etc etc. Escape isn't really an option here. It would all come down to a battle of wills between Dracula and Constance.... which I'm not sure Constance would win, on her own. Sorry, the baby's dying here without help.

To nobody's surprise, the Society would be able to survive Castle Dracula if they were all trapped in it together, and in fact that's an incredible fic idea that I don't have time or energy to write. However, on their own... they're just a bunch of kids. They're not going to do so great.

What about the others?

Mr Benedict - is most certainly accepting the crucifix, but his good luck ends there. Everything about Castle Dracula is designed to heighten anxiety and make your emotions go into overdrive. And it's definitely not a good place to go around falling asleep in random places because you get upset or overwhelmed. The moment Dracula twigs to the narcolepsy situation, Mr Benedict's pretty much fully screwed. The one thing that might save him is the fact that he's an incredibly intelligent and brilliant man, and Dracula might want to pick his brain a bit.

Mr Curtain - would most certainly NOT accept the crucifix, he's too proud for that. Assuming he somehow manages to get his wheelchair up the mountain - or going by TV!Curtain, where he doesn't have a wheelchair at all - he's immediately going to set about trying to strike up a business deal with Dracula to expand his global reach. Either the Count kills Curtain, or they make each other worse and everybody else is going to have a bad time. It's kind of up in the air on that one.

Number Two - has an incredible advantage over literally everyone else here in almost never needing to sleep. I don't think she's going to be especially happy about it, but having the full run of the castle during the daytime despite Dracula's best efforts (and, if we go by the TV show, being a completely unhinged force of destructive chaos) is going to mean that she'll probably manage to sneak out using an inventive and clever strategy.

Rhonda Kazembe - I can't think of anything that gives Rhonda more or less of an advantage than your average person - would probably take a similar approach to Number Two in escaping, with a bit more social skills re: talking to Dracula.

Milligan - doesn't need a crucifix. Beats up Dracula singlehandedly and throws him out a window because he left Kate down in the town and promised he'd be back for her. Does the same for the vampire GFs, no problem, not even a moment of hesitation. Rips up his own clothes to fashion a rope to climb down out of the castle, treks by foot all the way down the mountain. Rocks up to town several weeks later, heavily injured and looking awful but still alive.

SQ - there's no easy way to say this: SQ doesn't have anything at all going for him in this situation. He is, unfortunately, not particularly smart and not particularly agile. He's a great artist, but that's not helpful here. I think he's just a handy snack to Drac unless someone shows up to help him.

[see-arcane]

hey do you think dracula could control werewolves like he does wolves

I think it depends on what kind of lore the werewolves are working with. Dracula has influence over specific animals and people he turns/has a psychic hook in, but I think it’s a coin toss with someone suffering a case of lycanthropy.

Whether Dracula could control them or not, I bet there’s something of an innate Fuck This Guy instinct against his presence, just as it got Berserker’s hackles up. Maybe the only vampire vs werewolf grudge is just every werewolf baring their teeth at Count Bat Bastard in particular.

(Though as an aside, I think I lean slightly more towards ‘Dracula can’t control them’ if only because if there were werewolves under his command, he’d be able to snap his fingers at them in human or wolf mode and get a lot more shit done without relying on outside labor. And considering the Transylvanian locals are worried about them too, they could/should be chilling somewhere in the mountains and just leaving the Count on read.)

[coraniaid]

Who do you think tended to be consistently the strongest and weakest writers on the Buffy staff? [With the obvious caveat that TV writing is collaborative of course.]

Looking only at writers who are credited with at least five episodes so that we've got a decent sized sample of their writing (and, as you say, pretending for the sake of the argument that each episode was written entirely by the writer named in its credits), our long list is:

Dean Batali and Rob Des Hotel co-wrote five episodes together, starting with Season 1's Never Kill A Boy On The First Date and ending with Season 2's Killed By Death

Jane Espenson wrote twenty-three episodes, starting with Season 3's Band Candy and ending with Season 7's End Of Days (co-written with Doug Petrie)

David Fury wrote seventeen episodes, starting with Season 2's Go Fish (co-written with Elin Hampton) and ending with Season 7's Lies My Parents Told Me (co-written with Drew Goddard)

Drew Goddard wrote or co-wrote five episodes, all in Season 7, starting with Selfless and ending with Dirty Girls.

Drew Z. Greenberg wrote six episodes, starting with Season 6's Smashed and ending with Season 7's Empty Places

David Greenwalt wrote eight episodes, starting with Season 1's Teacher's Pet and ending with Season 3's Homecoming

Rebecca Rand Kirshner wrote eight episodes, starting with Season 5's Out Of My Mind and ending with Season 7's Touched

Steven S. Knight wrote five episodes, starting with Season 5's Blood Ties and ending with Season 6's Seeing Red

Marti Noxon wrote twenty-three episodes, starting with Season 2's What's My Line? (Part 1) (co-written with Howard Gordon) and ending with Season 7's Bring On The Night (co-written with Doug Petrie)

Doug Petrie wrote seventeen episodes, starting with Season 3's Revelations and ending with Season 7's End Of Days (co-written with Jane Espenson)

Joss Whedon wrote twenty-seven episodes, starting with Season 1's Welcome to the Hellmouth and ending with Season 7's Chosen

Unfortunately for people who like to claim that being a good person and being a good artist are correlated, I think it's pretty much indisputable that Joss Whedon was consistently the best Buffy writer. As well as every season opener and season finale except for Season 5's Buffy vs Dracula and both Season 6's Bargaining and Grave, Whedon-written episodes include Lie To Me, Innocence, Doppelgangland, Hush, Who Are You?, Family, The Body and Once More With Feeling. You could easily make a plausible top ten of Buffy episodes without picking episodes written by anybody else.

It's true that Whedon has a very particular style, that his characters all tend to default to speaking in a certain way and that he is a lot better at mood and metaphor than tight, multi-layed plotting. I'm not sure this is an approach that necessarily works well outside of the show (as well as easy targets like Avengers 2 or Whedon's bizarre Wonder Woman script or whatever was going on in the post-Chosen comics, I should admit I don't think fan-favorite Firefly is very good either), and by all accounts he's a pretty terrible human being as well, but as a writer on Buffy I think his work is consistently very good. The worst Whedon-written episodes are probably the opening two parter, Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest, Season 1's Nightmares and Season 3's Amends, and I think it's a stretch to call any of them bad episodes.

Of the other good Buffy writers ... well, I wouldn't be much of a Faith fan if I didn't mention Doug Petrie (whose best episodes include Revelations, This Year's Girl, No Place Like Home and Fool For Love), but I think his Season 6 and Season 7 episodes are quite a bit weaker. I'm not a huge fan of Season 4's The Initiative either.

Marti Noxon had as big an influence as anyone on the show other than Whedon, but 'consistent' is not the word I'd use to describe her. Her best epsiodes (I Only Have Eyes For You, Consequences, The Prom, Forever, Bargaining) are fantastic, her worst ... well, she wrote the worst two episodes of Season 3 (Dead Man's Party and Beauty and the Beasts), she wrote Buffy vs Dracula (which I know some people love but I can't stand at all) and she wrote (or cowrote) Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered and Doomed and Into the Woods (all three of which, I think, would be in the running for a list of the show's worst ten episodes).

I think Petrie and Noxon are probably the show's best two writers after Whedon. I know a lot of people really rate Jane Espenson's work, and I do like a lot of her episodes (Earshot and Band Candy are both very good), but she also wrote some real stinkers (Pangs, A New Man and ... again, Doomed). She doesn't quite have any real knockout episodes, for my money.

Worst writer is a more hotly contested category.

David Fury wrote (or co-wrote) Lies My Parents Told Me and Go Fish (and, not to keep banging on about it, Doomed) which is a pretty good claim to the title of "worst writer", but he also wrote Helpless, Choices, Fear Itself and Real Me and at least co-wrote Bargaining. So I don't think, hand on heart, that he can possibly be the worst Buffy writer. Certainly not consistently so.

David Greenwalt wrote (or co-wrote, with Whedon) School Hard and Ted and Faith, Hope & Trick and Homecoming, all very good episodes. But he also wrote Teacher's Pet, which .... uh.

Probably the consistently weakest writers are the ones who didn't really write anything dreadful but also never wrote anything particular amazing.

Dean Batali and Rob des Hotel's worst episode is the forgetable Killed By Death, and I'm not sure I could tell you what their best episode is. Never Kill A Boy On The First Date, maybe? I think I like that one more than most people do.

From the other end of the show's run, there's Drew Z Greenberg, whose worst episode is probably a tie between Him and Empty Places and whose best episode is ... uh. Entropy, maybe? And David Goddard, who only wrote for the show's worst season and who managed to cowrite Lies My Parents Told Me, easily the show's worst ever episode (and I am not as much of a fan of Selfless as many people, although I'd agree it's certainly his best work).

It's no secret that Season 7 is my least favorite season, and while I don't think Season 1 is objectively great, it -- and the early parts of Season 2 -- have a certain nostalgic charm I don't really get from the rest of the show. So I guess I'd pick one of the Drews, either Greenberg or Goddard, if I had to pick a single worst writer. Or fail to pick one, as it happens, because I can't pick between them.

Though I think the absolute best sign that an episode is likely to be a stinker is if it's credited to more than one writer, especially writers who don't normally write as a team. There are a handful of exceptions -- Conversations With Dead People comes to mind -- but on the hand you've got 'classics' like The Pack and Go Fish and Flooded and Life Serial and Sleeper and Bring On The Night and Lies My Parents Told Me and End Of Days. That's a pretty consistent list of dubious to terrible episodes right there.

Oh, and don't forget Doomed, the only episode of the show officially credited to three different writers. Have I mentioned that I don't like Doomed? Because I really don't like Doomed.

[tokiro07]

Undead Unluck ch.221 thoughts

[That's a Helluva Cold Open]

or [Bad and Naughty Children Get Put in the Kessler Effect]

(Contents: narrative analysis - story structure; thematic analysis - friendship/growth/loyalty; predictions)

Title Drop TWO!!!

And we have a title!!! ... Again!!!

Admittedly it loses a little bit of its impact this time around, but David Evelyn couldn't have known Tozuka was gonna literally have Andy say "Undead Unluck" when Fuuko previously used furigana to technically say it

I also don't know if there was a way to avoid double dipping like this in English without losing the original meaning in the first place; previously, Fuuko said "Unluck" as the furigana for the "Undead" kanji, so she was literally saying both at once, just in a more subtle way that doesn't translate in English. If it were me and I knew this chapter was going to have Andy say Undead Unluck, I think I would have had Fuuko say "here comes my Undead," since it's clearly a reference to her usual catchphrase while also incorporating the new meaning, but it does come across a little weaker than saying Undead Unluck

I'm not here to gripe about translation choices, though, especially since, again, David made the most of what he was given and couldn't have known it would retroactively become repetitive. No one's at fault here, it's just unfortunate that it made the moment a teeny bit less special

Still, the idea that this is the beginning of the real story does make the timing of that title drop pretty appropriate; I think it's fair to say that a lot of us considered L100 to be a sort of prologue, as once we learned about the loops (and even before that in my case) it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that L100 would end in failure. L101 then seemed like it was the "main" story, but realizing now that the final enemy team was basically hidden behind what amounts to a cutscene gate makes it clear that all of the teambuilding of L101 was basically a crazy long training arc, the tutorial if you will

To put it simply, L100 was the intro of Symphony of the Night (fighting the final boss and losing access to the apparent main character), L101 up to now has been Dracula's Castle (the true main character gaining experience and equipment), and we've only just now reached the Reverse castle (the original main character returns, but so too is the true final boss accessible now after completing a few more challenges, including finding specific key items first)

To continue the SotN metaphor, the boss of the first half is also someone who should be on the main cast's side but is wrongly under the influence of the final boss and his minions!

Hard Lessons

As I expected, the focus of this chapter is definitely Ruin, though perhaps not quite in the way I expected

I figured that either the majority of the chapter would be dedicated to exploring his backstory or Andy would trigger a monologue by saying the right thing. What we got instead was Andy almost taking on a mentor role, using their similar experiences to relate to Ruin's life path and even celebrating it

In much the same way that Andy progressed from being a complete unknown to being "Captain," then "Undead," and finally "Andy" thanks to Fuuko's influence, Ruin went from being a scared, powerless child to "Unruin" and a follower of God thanks to the influence of Blood and Shadow. As I said last week, Ruin has no control over the flow of his life, just as Andy didn't until he met Fuuko

Just like Fuuko wanted to be for Tatiana what Andy was for her, Andy now wants to be for Ruin what Fuuko was for him: the culmination of "dumb luck," the one to turn that luck into fate, the one who can turn the bad hand that was dealt into a big win. All of the events of Ruin's life have led him to Andy here and now, and Andy is the one person who can show Ruin just how massively a person can change and grow when exposed to others

Mutual Growth

Andy gets to make this demonstration twofold: not only is his final attack, Bad Loop, only possible because he has Fuuko, but Ruin will only have the chance to escape it (or at least make the most of his time while caught in it) because Andy released Blood and Shadow and allowed them to go to Ruin's side

Sure, Blood and Shadow are still of the belief that Ruin's only hope for happiness is to defeat the Union and serve God, but based on the rest of the chapter, I don't think that they themselves are all that loyal to God in the first place. Their refutation that Andy's philosophy will help Ruin at first seems like propaganda for God, but I think it's more likely that the three of them have mutually come to the conclusion that this is the right path

After all, Blood and Shadow are the equivalent of Clothy, and it was Clothy who put his faith in them to help Ruin. Andy's partnership with Clothy allowed them to come to an understanding almost wordlessly, with Andy reading Clothy's expression easily and asking a vague question to determine the right course of action. If any UMA can recognize one that values a human over God, it's Clothy

It's also worth noting that Ruin already augments Unruin w/ his UMA pals, so it's not like he's completely unfamiliar with the concept of mutual growth, he just needs to recognize that there isn't really a difference between the UMA and Negators. Sure, they're shaped differently and born by different means, but they all manipulate the rules of the world in some way, and all of them have distinct personalities. I don't think there's a single UMA that's been portrayed as a totally mindless beast, just that some of them aren't given any dialogue to demonstrate their personalities

In a sense, they're all people. Ruin is just trying to create a world where the people he likes can live, and honestly he probably thinks that the Union is trying to kill them. Sure, sometimes they have to kill them, but...really think about why they have to. Who is making them kill the Rules?

God. God is the one letting Ruin's precious Rules be killed, and is even facilitating it. In fact, the idea seems to be that the ones who are targeted for elimination in Quests are the ones that are "expendable" to God's ideal world; is Ruin so bought in that it's okay for Rules to die so long as God says so?

Picking Sides

Given the kind of upbringing that we see Ruin had, it's not hard to see how he might accept something so cruel as just. As @wickedsick pointed out earlier in the week, Ruin's...father? Guardian? Owner? is specifically depicted in silhouette, lifting his foot to kick and stomp at Ruin while scalding him with steaming hot liquid, giving him almost exactly the aesthetic of Sun's descent during Ragnarok

I believe this is meant to demonstrate that Ruin views humanity as exactly the same kind of oppressive force that God is to the Union, but it's also possible that it's a symbol for how, as a Negator, Ruin will always be facing that sort of oppression so long as he refuses to ally with the people who are like him

As Andy says, Ruin is currently taking the easy way out; he's giving up his own autonomy to work under God, selling out everyone else so that he can cling to his own false idea of happiness. He doesn't have to think about the morality of his choices if he just goes along with what he's told, if he buys the lie that all of humanity is an afront to the world and not literally the point of its existence. The Rules of the world are crafted to prompt humanity to find "the greatest life ever" through suffering, and Ruin is an agent meant to provide that suffering. God doesn't have any intention of letting Ruin have a place in his world, as evidenced by the fact that he wrongfully believed Unruin would let him survive the loops. Therefore, Ruin is faced with two choices:

Stay the course and view humanity as the others, remaining in conflict with them only to ultimately be hurt and rejected by both sides

Join forces with humanity and rise against God, breaking the cycle and finding real happiness by creating a world where humanity and the Rules can support and guide each other

Bad Loop

The irony of Andy and Fuuko being the ones to put Ruin through an infinite loop of pain and death that he's capable of actually surviving is pretty interesting, as this is literally what he's always wanted from God but he's receiving it from humanity. Furthermore, by being forced to endure this torture, Ruin is being shown a microcosm of what Andy had to experience, both in the first several million years when he was simply drifting through space as a scrap of his own skull and in the remaining 4 billion where he deliberately planted himself on the surface of the sun. He is experiencing a fraction of the suffering he always wanted and being given the opportunity to really think about the implications of that

By being repeatedly buffeted with death, Ruin will have endless, rapid-fire opportunities to test, understand and improve Unruin, and eventually come to realize that even after all of that, there's a limit to what he's capable of. That's what happened to Andy; he learned everything there is to know about Undead as a standalone ability, and presumably had the time to consider combination techniques, but realized that no matter how hard he thought about it, the only things that would allow him any further growth would be inspiration in the moment or a perspective he isn't capable of providing

After all, Andy only knows everything about Undead. He knows a good deal about everyone else, but just like how Billy couldn't draw out the full power of any of his copied abilities, Andy can only coordinate so well with the rest of his team without first seeing how they've personally enhanced their capabilities. If Unstoppable is different now than it used to be but Andy doesn't realize that, it's just as much Top's responsibility to come up with combo ideas as it is Andy's

Ruin, meanwhile, still hasn't even reached the starting line where he actually knows how to use Unruin in combat. Right now he's just using Blood and Shadow as weapons and augmenting them with his infinite blood supply, but Unruin itself hasn't grown or changed. The problem is that he's still thinking of Unruin as a regenerative ability, as a lesser Undead, and hasn't determined what makes it unique yet. Once he knows how to actually use it, once he accepts his humanity and understands himself, he'll be able to max out his personal growth and begin his interpersonal growth, both with his UMAs and his future Union compatriots

Of course, the real question now is how long until that future arrives

The Final Saga

With Andy's declaration that the final fight is beginning, I've seen a lot of doom and gloom about the series ending. While UU is ostensibly not performing well compared to other Jump manga, it's apparently still selling better than a lot of top-sellers outside of Jump, so I doubt Shueisha plans to axe it

Even if that's not what people are worried about and instead they're just lamenting the knowledge that the end is in sight, I can't help but feel the opposite. In fact, I've never felt so glad to have a series I like declare it's intention to conclude - it means that it won't be forcefully dragged on

This review series was spawned by my opinion that Jump manga are at their peak at the four-year mark, and that they tend to lose interest after the six-year mark. While I'm sure I could love Undead Unluck all the same no matter how long it went, I can't deny the possibility that I would grow tired of it past that point. I became fatigued with Hero Academy despite how much I loved it from the beginning. Food Wars earned my respect by the end of year one but lost it a year or two before its conclusion. Aside from One Piece, I have no evidence of a weekly series holding my attention for so long without developing some feeling of negativity, so it's a valid concern that even UU would pass the threshold and begin to decline

I'm ecstatic that UU is approaching the end of its fifth full year. I love that this past year has been one of if not its best so far, but I'd be lying if I said I could see it doubling that. The story that Tozuka wants to tell has a specific number of beats that have been foreshadowed already, and while it will certainly have plenty of surprises within, it can't produce more indefinitely without deviating from the initial vision. While there may be some cuts or rushed plot points, it's clear that Tozuka is getting to tell the main story that he wants to get across, and that's all I've ever wanted for any Jump manga

With eight Master Rules to fight, the likely return of Seal, and the conflicts with both Sun and Luna on the horizon, there are likely at least 9 storylines to cover, depending on if any of the remaining enemies team up or if there are any more moments of downtime in between like searching for Artifact Heart

Even if we assume this is going to be like the Spring arc and each individual fight prior to the final battle is only like three chapters, that's 27 chapters right there, more than half a year of content, which would then lead into the fight(s) with Sun and Luna, which would likely be at least ten chapters minimum. That would put us ten chapters shy of a full year's worth, landing us in July or August, which is just six months away from the sixth anniversary

I don't know about you, but I could easily see Tozuka making the series last another year and a half from now to hit the six-year mark on the dot, which would give us plenty of time to explore all of the Master Rules, the underdeveloped Union members, the Gods, and give us a good capstone to Andy and Fuuko's relationship

Even if it's just the bare minimum, though, like I've always said, I trust in Tozuka. While the pacing is a bit fast at times, he's never failed to leave me with a satisfying story in the end; even the weaker arcs were a blast to read through the whole time, and I look back on every one of them fondly. I don't want the rest to be rushed at all, but Tozuka has a clear vision of what he wants, and I trust he won't waste any of the time that he's given

Until next time, let's enjoy life!

[azuredrg]

can you do #11 for any of da gunslingers or for the story itself 💭

YESSSS HAPPILY TY PIPPPP

11) What was your inspiration for your OC?

I want to go down le listtt.... at least as i remember it

GUNSLINGERS itself.... I took inspiration from silent hill 2 and clock tower 3. (i wish i could implement more ct3 because it is such a funny game but again,,, story evolved too much that it felt side villains was simply Not Possible.) and also old testament (the main characters are literally named adam and eve) AND ALSO TRANSGENDERISM AND MY TRANSGENDER EXPERIENCE!!! i think as i transitioned more socially is what really made gunslingers evolve into what it is today as i kept implementing more of my experiences.... ok i'll put chara inspos under da cut so it doesnt clog the dash. but TL;DR: adam did his own thang and everyone else i built off of him

I made Adam years ago (gunslingers is 3! i went to check and just learned... wow) but i vividly remember his inspiration being bayonetta. at least visually.

maybe the resemblance is still there...... ?

he also was partially inspired by a black butler character (shamefully...), but i cut that part out of his story as it began to make less sense as the story evolved. i think a bit of his personality still clings on thouuu...

i genuinely cannot remember what inspired Cain, i remember toiling for a long time over his design, but i can't remember what i looked at to finalize it? (he was made shortly after adam was, but he came to me a lot harder... and somehow i forgot all of it) I definitely took inspiration from Beowulf, because it's on his shirt. I mostly wanted Cain to be a complimentary character to Adam, so they have similar palettes with like... Adams bigger emphasis on white while he (and really, every other character) has a lot more black than him.

so basically cain and eve look the way they do because adam looks the way he does. so i cite adam as eve and cains inspirations (at least design wise...)

Eve is inversely Adams complete opposite in every single way. i struggled a lot with her since forever because eve was a lot of different things while i was developing gunslingers. but i finally settled on her having a role like maria sh2 but i guess a lot more on the nose than what the game tries to portray... she also got a lot of her personality borrowed from ashley re4 (<- ashley also influenced a lot of her previous design before i landed on this!!!) i wanted her to be very much "ps2 horror girl protag"

and finally dracula... i think he was the easiest right behind adam... he is dracula.

just straight up regular vampire dracula. he was going to look exactly like bela lugosi. in my mind they have the same face.... but couldn't deny making him look a little like adam, so i gave him longer hair to kindof mirror that aspect.... i think this was also because of dracula castlevania looking cool, but i never played it and this is very loosely his inspiration...

[tookishcombeferre]

Pip Rambles: Writing Influences

So, a recent comment on "In the Flares" prompted me to share a little bit more of a general writing pro-tip that have for writing in general.

Whenever I go into writing something, fan fic or otherwise, I generally have a whole list of characters/ other stories that I'm using as base inspiration for a character.

If you wanted to know where I got the inspiration or "mood board" for Cedric in "In the Flares of the Sun" here are a couple of my sources (none of these are in a particular order):

Runil from Elder Scrolls: Skyrim - this was super random. But, the idea for a Restoration mage with a checkered past and list of regrets sort of came from here. He can be encountered in Falkreath. He appears for all of like 2.2 seconds. But, he's one of my favorite characters in the game. He was once a battle mage who basically destroyed cities and tortured people. Now? He's a super sweet priest of the Restoration god Arkay who gives funerals and attends a grave yard with his assistant. Love him. Sweet little old elf man deserves to just forgive himself and live in peace.

Dr. Van Helsing from Bram Stoker's Dracula - This man drank his respect women juice and is just like simultaneously kind, intelligent, and incredibly strong in the scrappiest way possible.

Telemachus from The Odyssey - particularly this is what, I felt, Cedric longed for his relationship with Goodwyn *to be* he has been quite literally stuck in the waiting period for his dad his whole life. Yet, he has an incredibly profound relationship with his mother. So, in this way, this was a huge influence on Cedric's relationship with his parents as I began drafting. Also, on the flip side ...

Odysseus from The Odyssey - in a certain way, Cedric is the dad Sofia was waiting to have come home from the shipwreck. He's gone through the Underworld and back, and though changed, there is literally nothing he wouldn't destroy to save her. Odysseus is MESSED UP after his whole adventure getting back home, but there's still a lot of love in him. So, the undertones here made sense to me. The boat vibes were also strong after what I discovered in the finale. (Cedric will actually end up recounting this myth to Miranda at some point in the fic, and yes I plan for it to be as amazingly friendship! as that sounds.)

Carl Fredricksen from "Up" - I have a favorite "type" of character. It is called "grumpy old man who just wants to be left alone is redeemed by tiny child." That favorite archetype began when I read Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" at 6, it has not changed.

Dr. Jekyll from The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - I love elements of just about every adaptation of this story. I'm quite fond of the question of "what if those two got to integrate as opposed to forever be stuck separated." I thought DotS was an interesting way to answer that question given the way Cedric's personality changed throughout the series. Thus ... this.

Loki from mythology and Marvel - What can I say, I love both. I'm a huge sucker for the Loki of mythology who watches his giant wolf son get pummeled by the gods and decides vengeance is the answer because promises were broken. I also really like the whole "God of Stories" thing from the end of the recent TV series, and I felt like that vibed. You *might* actually see some of my love of Norse mythology, specifically Loki, show up somewhere else in the fic ... no promises ;)

Faramir from Lord of the Rings - LOOK ME IN THE FACE AND TELL ME THEY DON'T SHARE VIBES! The entire relationship Cedric has with Cordelia and his dad is just gives Boromir, Denethor, Faramir vibes! I can't unsee it!

Gandalf from Lord of the Rings - As mentors? ... they share vibes ... just ... they have vibes. Those vibes are shared. Incredibly loving, to the point of almost being overly indulgent, but they're also super grumpy and gruff. Externally gruff but secretly giant pushovers is their shared vibe. Like, come on, we all know Gandalf adores Pippin, but he can't SHOW that. Until he does. But, yeah, Cedric gives me the vibes of someone who would go from saying "Fool of a Took" to also "End? No the journey does not end here. Death is just another path, one we all must take." Cedric seems like he is, in fact, both of those people ... and so is Gandalf. And, I love that about them. (Side bar: That second quote was HUGELY influential on "In the Flares" as a whole.)

Elphaba from Wicked - specifically when thinking of Roland as Glinda, and how an extended edition of "For Good" would look.

There are probably others, and maybe even some more important ones, but these are the ones I remember right now.

However, when I write novels, I usually have a list (external or internal) for my OCs that are just like this one.

Occasionally, I find out there were a few more sneaky layers even I didn't catch until well into the writing process that I can either play up or play down to my liking as I go.

So, you can control whether or not those things end up being obvious or not. Like, I'll occasionally chuck things into my writing that I think will make folks chuckle if they're interested in the same sorts of myths or pop culture stuff I'm into. (Rick Riordan is famous for stuff like that.)

Sometimes, the influences I have will show up in the naming conventions I use for the characters, and other times they don't. It really depends on what I'm doing, the setting I'm creating, how influential the central pieces of "literature" are on the piece, etc.

(One of the books I'm writing right now has a subplot that necessitates the use of focusing on the characters choosing names from classic novels ... for reasons ...)

Sometimes, if I can, I'll put musical influences together as well so I can sort of "hear" the setting.

Often, I sketch stuff out. Particularly, I draw out sort of fashion designs for the characters so that I can see how characters would move in space given what kind of clothes they're wearing. (How mobile are they? What has the potential to snag? Etc.)

Sometimes I don't do that, but I often do most of that stuff for long form stuff like novels and novellas.

But, I almost always, no matter the length of the work, when pressed, can give you at least a handful of 10-20 characters that inspired each of the "Main Characters" (10-15 in long form; 2-3 in short form.)

Authors are always recycling stuff. Sometimes it's a trope. Sometimes it's literally just something as simple as "I think these two characters would get on if they had coffee together."

But, if you're in the business of writing original stories or characters, I can tell you making lists like this is immensely helpful.

What other characters would they get on with if they had coffee together? Who do they share vibes with? Are there different vibes based on different relationships (like the Telemachus vs. Odysseus thing)? Is there a particular character or two that help focus a particular scene? How does that influence the way you write them? Does the vibe change as the character changes?

This is why when they first teach you creative writing they tell you to read an excerpt and then try to write something of your own in the exact same style. Now, when I go to write my own stuff, I'm constantly aware of the little influences I've magpied over the years. But, I'm also well established enough in my own writing that I still sound "like me" around all my weird influences (ah Victorian era sci-fi and JRRT, my beloveds.)

So, anyway, not sure if anyone will read this and find it interesting. But, I hope somebody finds it helpful or, at the very least, fun.

Cheers,

Pip :D

[charmwasjess]

Yooooo! What if George had the plans for the Prequels down back in the 90s and Joruus C'Baoth was secretly a Count Dooku clone?

GEODE MY MAN! What's up??! I love this ask so much because it made me do the thing I like best: run down a rabbit hole that ends with me dragging out Lord of Misrule and re-reading Christopher Lee’s delightful, if vaguely bemused chapter on filming AotC.

So, Dooku’s origins: while I think Lucas had profound, interesting thoughts on Dooku’s character outside of his obvious tropism, I always thought he created the character predominantly FOR Christopher Lee and classic film villain homage. You know: Count Dooku/Count Dracula, the cape, the tastiness of having Sir Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing in his original trilogy and needing a fitting cultural icon from that same golden generation for his new one... 

But in the memoir, Christopher Lee’s own account of getting the role kind of contradicts that? His agent - unsolicited by Lucas - suggested a meeting with the Star Wars casting director might be a good career move. Christopher Lee, agent, and casting person all had a very nice lunch and didn’t talk about Star Wars or Dooku at all. (AotC was already entirely scripted at this point.) That was it. A couple weeks later, Christopher Lee got a call saying he was Dooku, if he wanted to be. 

This is very, very funny to me because it implies that Christopher Lee’s Dooku audition was “having a nice lunch” and he nailed it so hard he got the job with absolutely no other follow up. It also seems to imply that Dooku was already written well before any association with Christopher Lee and any references were belatedly tacked on.

—This rambling is all probably missing the INTERESTING point you’re actually making: that Joruus C'Baoth predates Dooku’s invention and that he and Dooku share significant parallels. Star Wars is all too happy to cannibalize EU storylines, reiterate, and repeat. I’m sorry to say that I don’t know Joruus C'Baoth well enough to talk very articulately on the minute differences, aside from the wiki-level obvious similarities of them both being disillusioned white haired older human Jedi of similar generations and interests, who both were personal friends of Palpatine prior to their fall. Sidious seems to have been very interested in the flower of that Jedi generation and badly wanted one. Dooku’s Jedi friendgroup and peers seemed very attractive to him as a potential influences/points of attack in both Legends and Canon - Joruus C'Baoth, Dooku, Jocasta, Sifo-Dyas, and now even Rael all seemed to have some levels of exposure to him and potential influence, unwitting or not.

Is Joruus C'Baoth a proto-Dooku? To return to meta for a minute, this is something that came up a lot in the fandom between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones because when Dooku was premiered ahead of Attack of the Clones, everyone was pretty pissed off about the character, for a number of reasons including

Great, after all the athletic glamor of the duel of the fates we’re going back to old man battles??!

Asajj Ventress’s concept art was floating around and people theorized the new Sith/villain would be a badass woman

We all thought Yoda was Qui-Gon’s Master for some reason that I can’t remember and we were mad about it being this new guy with a stupid name

But most importantly, because the central narrative thing in Dooku’s story is a Jedi who is corrupted and becomes a Sith, and we’re already doing that with Anakin. And, apparently, Joruus C'Baoth.

I'm not sure that accurately answers your question, but I sure did blow off an hour of boring work on it, so truly, thank you, friend. :D <3

[fantasyinvader]

There's something tragic about Hubert that got erased by the translation.

In his solo ending, it's mentioned that he became a person of blackness, in both dress and his heart, as he did whatever it took to support Edelgard. Now, a lot of Hubert's endings do mention the “whatever it takes” bit, but it's his solo ending that lays out what it does to him as a person. The phrase “black-hearted” is used to refer to someone who is malevolent, malignant or evil (Google translate instead uses wicked of heart, saying that his heart is evil or morally wrong).

But then we get him leaving behind a letter, giving away the location of TWSITD and urging Byleth to defeat them. In Verdant Wind, Claude says that Hubert was better than Claude thought he was. The Japanese says it's his tribute to Edelgard as well as Byleth's duty as the victor.

And what I was thinking of is that Edelgard never revealed TWSITD, even in her last moments. Sure, there's her comment to Seteth and Flayn in the translation, but that seems to be a thing with the translation as I keep getting different results in it, either her saying she won't allow Seteth and Flayn to take Fodlan back or that she'll come back if she is killed (so... Dedue dismembering her corpse is a good thing I guess). If that last one is correct, it would imply that she knows TWSITD can resurrect her and it serves as a hint to the fact that Nemesis and the Elites are hidden in Enbarr.

She knows TWSITD killed her siblings, made her father their puppet, experimented on her, turned people into monsters, was behind Duscur and Hopes says she's ignoring their influence on the Empire, yet she keeps silent and instead tells Byleth to kill her, saying it's the only way to stop the fighting, while activating her weapon. I do believe that she was trying to see if her words could give her the opening she needed to strike Byleth down, just look at the end of Azure Moon how she'll reject Dimitri's hand (which, going by Confucianism, would symbolize her rejecting benevolence with her final act), but it also implies that if she wasn't going to win... she'd let Fodlan burn. She would let the Agarthans go to try this again with the next Nemesis or Loog or Edelgard.

Yet Hubert, despite believing that Edelgard would win, took measures to make sure the Agarthans would be defeated should he not be able to conduct his shadow war.

I think what this all says is that while Hubert was evil, he needed to be in order to serve Edelgard's wishes. That in order for her to get what she wanted, he needed to becoming the Dracula-looking motherfucker we know him as, and that reflects more on her than it does on him. After all, the game does title the event where the Black Eagles and player join Edelgard as “Path of Thorns,” symbolically saying it was a path of sin, so what does it say about them?

And if you're like me and thing Papa Vestra was really a Slither due to his betrayal of Ionius, him selecting Edelgard out to be the one Hubert serves, and the Vestra family battalion being dressed in Slither robes despite Moon pointing out those are not standard in the Imperial army, there's probably another dimension we can add to this. That Hubert had revealed who his family was really serving, and how he was the one to push Edelgard into entering an Alliance with TWSITD. Hubert never fit with Edelgard's who spiel about not being tied to duties or responsibilities because of your birth, so Hubert faithfully serving her felt tone-deaf. But if Hubert was really supposed to serve Agartha, killed his father and instead devoted himself to Edelgard out of his love for her, it does feel more consistent. Plus it explains why he doesn't like to hear his father was a good man, because Hubert knew he wasn't as he was likely the one overseeing the experiments on Lysithea and Edelgard's families.

I really wish there was an option to capture Hubert and recruit him in SS to help fight the Slithers.

It's either Edelgard said she was going to conquer Fodlan and Hubert help her do so in the most evil ways possible, ignoring the blatant contradictions and red flags in Edelgard's tale and therefore pushed her down the path they wanted her to go down, or that Hubert was supposed to be an Agarthan pawn but worked to help Edelgard turn the tables on them while helping her accomplish her goals. Either way, it's not really moral but then again Hubert isn't supposed to be moral. His ending identifies him as being evil, much like how Edelgard's S support is supposed to reveal that rather than being a benevolent ruler she's instead ruled by force and violence.

If anything, their relationship is a toxic one akin to Mikazuki and Orga's in Gundam IBO. Hubert did everything he could so that Edelgard could succeed, whereas the direction Edelgard chose pushed Hubert down a dark path. Yet at the end, Edelgard laughs at Hubert when he confesses his love to her and she doesn't react to his death. It feels like their relationship is meant to be a warning to players.