#god do i character tag THIS?

[phantom-thieves-official]

Hiii

What are your opinions about Ryuji's and Joker's duality?

People only talks about akechi & Joker's duality, but I feel like Ryuji and Joker also have some sort of similarities

(Also, srry if my english sounds a bit off)

Your english is fine anon, no worries!

I was thinking about this the other day, actually, because in the art book, the notes about Ryuji's design specifically mention how he was designed to counter Joker (not as a stark opposite so much as just... a balance) I have a lot of thoughts on this topic but it's always just been nebulous.... vibes. That I just get, without ever having to explain why. So it was a challenge to put it all into words. Hope it all makes sense ^-^

ANYWAY under the cut bc this is long as hell

Joker and Akechi have a very interesting duality, I will admit. I can see why it dominates conversations on the topic of 'characters Joker has duality with.' I promise I have a point in derailing this post about Ryuji into talking about Akechi; bear with me here. Their similarities serve to highlight their contrasting elements; it's like a bad-end look of what Joker could have been if he'd made different/more selfish choices. That's the whole point of a foil.

Okay now that we've established what a foil is, back to Ryuji.

I think Joker/Ryuji are the opposite of a foil, they're a mirror; where they highlight each other's good traits and their similarities. Not that they have no differences, just that those differences work to make their similarities more obvious.

I rewrote this a couple times and kept feeling it was hard to follow, so I guess I'll start to by outlining a couple key character traits for them each.

Joker is selfless, motivated by his sense of justice, willing to get himself hurt to do the right thing, tactful, on the quiet side, level-headed, intelligent and generally good with people. He's a planner, a 'think before you act' type.

Ryuji is selfless, kind, motivated by his sense of justice, willing to get himself hurt to do the right thing, loud, 'act first, think later,' brash, lacks people skills, often says things without thinking, not super smart. He's a guy led mostly by feelings, and is often the first to want to take action.

There are obvious similarities, and obvious differences. I think at a very basic level, Ryuji's traits help make Joker's more obvious - Ryuji's very emotion-based, more impulsive, 'act first, think later' attitude leaves room for Joker's more level-headed, tactful nature to show, especially early on. In this way they also balance each other out really well just in general - particularly early as that's when Ryuji gets the best characterization, Ryuji's the one spurring on the plot action. He's the one moving them along toward taking on Kamoshida. In contrast, Joker's the one reigning him in when he goes too far - he stops Ryuji from hitting Kamoshida, he makes him stop when they're just walking in circles looking for the castle on the second day, things like that. Ryuji's a character of action and Joker balances him out with more thought and logic. Ryuji's the heart of the team and Joker's the brain (not that I think Joker's cold or unfeeling; just he's much more careful and tactical whereas Ryuji is an emotions-based guy)

Their differences also serve to make their similarities stand out. If they were super samey, with tons of things in common, then no one in particular would be unique. But by having their demeanor, temperaments, and general personalities so contrasting, it means the stuff they DO share - the important stuff; the kindness, the selflessness; the want to help others - really stands out. But that's not the only way their differences serve to uplift their similarities. Back with the Kamoshida arc example, Ryuji's more action-oriented character means he's the one who spurs most of the action in the Kamoshida arc, so you see a lot about his character. But despite Joker not being such an active role, you still learn a lot about Joker's character. He's not as emotional or headstrong as Ryuji is, but he's still shown to care - Ryuji's more outspoken nature both contrasts and compliments Joker's more quiet determination. It provides a vehicle for Joker's characterization basically, by giving Joker a more outspoken companion who can drive the action and leave room for Joker to show his own morals by agreeing and going along with Ryuji. If both characters were more quiet, tactful characters like Joker or more rash, headstrong ones like Ryuji, it wouldn't work the same way (or at all.)

I think there's something to be said for their similarities, too, and how those play into their dynamic. Like I said, I think they're a mirror of one another, reflecting and highlighting the good traits in each other. Their kindness, their unwavering commitment to doing what they think is right, their willingness to put themselves in harm's way to help people they don't even know. It's really easy to see those traits in Joker because Ryuji mirrors him in that way. Every time Ryuji displays that selfless, good guy core, it's a reminder that this is the guy Joker hitched his wagon to. This is the guy Joker chose to help out, because he believes in the same things. Every time Joker makes a selfless decision to help someone, you know Ryuji agrees with him. You know they're on the same page, and so you can learn more about one by looking at the things the other one stands for; each time one of them displays those core traits, you know the other feels the same way. I think this is especially pertinent for Joker's characterization as the protagonist, since most things in a game revolve around the protag primarily and Joker, as a character, does not get a lot of speaking roles for himself - Ryuji's expression of these traits is often a reflection of Joker's feelings/thoughts when Joker himself is often not afforded such explicit characterization. (Not that Joker has no characterization, just that as the protag with limited dialogue that characterization is often less/less obvious than the other main characters)

Without Ryuji there would be no Phantom Thieves. He was the one who activated the nav the first time, he's the reason Joker awakened a Persona, he's the reason they went back into the metaverse a second time, he's the reason they started trying to do something about Kamoshida's abuse of the volleyball team, he's the main voice behind going after him in light of Shiho's suicide. I bring all this up as another element where they contrast each other in an interesting way. At the beginning of the game, from the second we meet him, Ryuji hates Kamoshida. He wants to help the volleyball team so much that he wants to go back into the palace where he almost died. From the jump, Ryuji is mad and he's bitter and he still wants to do the right thing. And at that point in the story, I do not think the same applies to Joker. When Joker awakens to Arsene, there's a moment of doubt - a moment where Arsene asks him, was saving that lady a mistake? Joker's at a point where he's been beaten down for following his sense of justice, and I think there's a degree to which he'd given up on it. That's why Ryuji's the main instigator behind the plot early on (besides Ryuji's more action-forward character.) Because Joker's still a little wary of it. I think this difference in their character is really interesting, because I think if not for Ryuji, Joker might not have ever been spurred into action; he might have ended up believing that pursuing his own sense of justice was a mistake after all. But Ryuji, someone similar in sharing his morals and similar in having been kicked to the ground and outcast for it, hasn't given up. I think seeing that reaffirms Joker's sense of justice; reaffirms that he didn't make a mistake after all. So they're similar in circumstance, but one has knuckled under and one has not. And seeing someone else like him who hasn't given in changes things for Joker.

On a less character analysis, more meta note, I think they have fun duality in both design and gameplay, as well.

The art book mentions explicitly that Joker was more 'classic, gentlemanly phantom thief' but that there needed to be "some offbeat fashion, a bad boy vibe, and a sense of playfulness" to sell the idea of students up to no good. So Ryuji was designed to be that - the book states he is 'completely rid of all the refined qualities the protagonist has.' It outright says 'structurally, he's the opposite of the protagonist' and that his slumped posture is a contrast to Joker's better posture. So from a basic, design standpoint they were absolutely considered opposites.

I think there's a lot to be said for their gameplay in a similar vein, where Joker is a jack-of-all-trades and as the protag with LOTS of persona/skill options, you're encouraged to be strategic and thoughtful with your personas/turns. But Ryuji is not that at all - his play style is super straight forward. He hits stuff. Not that there are no further intricacies to his gameplay but the basic is he has a really high strength stat, so get to whacking stuff. Even other characters with a pretty well-defined role don't get pigeonholed as much, as Ann (the Ryuji of the magic attackers) gets some stat and heal moves, and characters like Yusuke, Makoto, and Haru get more varied and complex movepools with some gimmicks available to them (Yusuke's baton pass related skills, Haru's walls) so from a gameplay standpoint you have the most complex (Joker) and the most simple character (Ryuji) for combat.

[arrowsperpetualcringe]

Scribbled somehting together of... The sillies

This comic a mess, but I had the idea and I had to draw something before I lost motivation-

Emmet + Interpol + AZ ???

yes PLEASE 😭🙏🏾

basically, the jist of this idea is- like.

You that shitpost of Emmet asking AZ about Ingo?

Make it that, but it's AZ feeling empathy that he can't hide, because he knows what it's like to wander the earth in search of someone you love— and he knows that there's no way Emmet is going to find him, not in 10, 100 or 3000 years...

Heheh

Edit: Since I keep continuing off this premise—

Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4

[mayasaura]

Was thinking about this line because Harrow what the actual fuck are you talking about, and I realised something.

Not only does Harrow really for real not know that Gideon loves her—in the bullshit context of their lives, this is a reasonable misunderstanding for her to have.

What has Harrow known Gideon's life goals to be since they were children? Hint: There are at least two Harrow is fully aware of.

The first is to be wanted. As much as Gideon hates and wants to escape the Ninth, she also paradoxically craves their acceptance. They're the only community she's ever known. Harrow plays on that desire from the very beginning, mostly by kind of .... well, okay, by negging her about it. Ironically appealing to her sense of loyalty and duty to her house when they both know Gideon never even had that bridge to burn. That kind of thing.

Whether or not she's right, Harrow sincerely believes that acceptance to still be important to Gideon. First flower of my house, the greatest cavalier we have ever produced. You are our triumph. The best of all of us. When Harrow has only seconds left to make amends, she not only banks hard into praising Gideon, she frames it to unambiguously offer Gideon the acceptance she's always been conspicuously denied. Assuring her of her value not just as a person or as a cavalier, but as one of their house, one of their people.

The second thing Harrow knows is that Gideon wants to join the Cohort. Easy, everybody knows that. She's only been telling everyone with ears (and then some) since she was eight years old. It's the bait Harrow dangled to entice her into this mess. She wants to be a hero, to do great deeds like in the comic books. She wants to be a soldier.

Against the backdrop of all that context, Gideon's dying declaration "for the Ninth" starts to sound a hell of a lot more like "for Queen and country." Especially when you remember that Harrow is still the sovereign ruler of the Ninth. From Harrow's vantage point, Gideon could easily be playing the heroic underdog in a war movie. The soldier no one believed in until she threw herself on a grenade to save her squad. The knight errant who proved her chivalry by giving her life in service to her king.

From that perspective, Harrow's line to Ortus makes sense. She's following through on her promise of acceptance, defending Gideon's loyalty to the first Ninth face she sees. She's playing out Gideon's war hero fantasy, where Gideon's act of heroism proved them all wrong about her. In which case Ortus's response, "You are the most worthy heroes the Ninth House could muster. I truly believe that," flows very naturally as a reply. He understands what Harrow is trying to say, and affirms it.

It's not a hero's burial in the Anastasian, but it's the closest thing Harrow has the power to give her. And it's a fucking reasonable interpretation of Gideon's actions that doesn't touch on her feelings for Harrow at all. Fuck me.

[iguessyouregonnamissthepantyraid]

sorry we put your morally complex black female character in a fandom. yeah they're vilifying her for making difficult decisions under severe duress. yeah no it's too late, they're already writing porn about the random white guy with 30 seconds of screentime who did all the same bad stuff that she did but for worse reasons. yeah. yeah no. not really anything we can do at this point. sorry

[dreamsy990]

drew some of my fav ody designs! wasnt originally meant to be also replicating the styles but thats sort of just how my brain works. except i didnt copy the lineart styles of anyone here so its DEFINITELY a bit uncanny for a couple of these (LOOKING AT YOU QINNY IM SO SORRY) but whatever

the designs featured here (from left to right) belong to: me, @gigizetz, @neal-illustrator, @irunaki, @bigidiotenergytm, @qinnyanimation, and @foopsie-daisy

[lucabyte]

On autonomy, and what it means to be Obliged to Help.

Bonus:

[falmerbrook]

Dreamland - Sotha Sil animation

YouTube Upload

[wackywatchdotcom]

yeah sorry i gave your ragdoll moral ocd. yeah i know i already gave her ocd before. yeah i just gave her scrupulosity too. sorry

[funkbun]

hector doesn't have a lil icon thing so i decided to draw one For Funsies

with his bestest buds in the whole wide world

[shiroselia]

So we all agree Jinshi was unreasonably horny when watching Maomao rain hell on Lihua's ladies in waiting for being shit at taking care of Lihua right

[pan-of-justice]

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR GREAT GOD GROVE!!!

// A small walk through a gallery of stained glass \\

I kinda wanted to base this off of when you start to fully realize Inspekta is actually the villain? Sort of like the feeling of it creeping up behind you :]

(I started to realize when I got to Bauhazzo, so I put the Godpoke there :])

Also all the stained glass on their own because I am

Very proud on how they turned out :]

[demaparbat-hp]

Little Zuzu for an incoming project 🔥

[wyvernity]

been thinking about the sinnohtrio lately......plus misc other stuff

also, casual ko-fi drop!! get something in this sketchy style starting at $10 woop woop

[licorishh]

no way she's alive ?? yea those mental health breaks because social media makes people suck are wild huh

[sapphorror]

The Narrator's perspective only gets more horrifying the longer you think about it. Like, imagine being an Echo of yourself—one of many, all made to serve a very particular purpose and knowingly living on borrowed time, if 'living' is even the right word for your current state of pseudo-existence.

You've inherited the mission of a dead man—it's literally the only thing left that you can do before fading, so you sure as hell better believe in it; the alternative would be unbearable. Only you keep failing. With every loop that you don't remember, your lack of agency in this situation becomes starker—you can influence small things, sure, but it becomes increasingly clear that you have no real power, no matter how personally invested you are in the events unfolding in front of you. You are, after all, only an Echo. You've forfeited the right to meaningfully engage with the world.

Worse—every loop you're made aware of is another time you've failed, with unimaginable consequences, though you had no control over these previous iterations of yourself and can't even learn from their mistakes. Everyone around you is operating on a shared perception of reality that you are not part of, will never be part of. After a few repetitions, you are, ironically, the least informed person in the room. All you have left to go on is an evidently outdated script. At the same time, everyone else is experiencing a contiguous version of you, comprised of parts that are, in some sense, also you, while at the same time existing at a complete remove from your current perception of self. Whatever you don't know you did—that's you now. You are, after all, only an Echo. You've forfeited the right to define your own identity, never mind know what it is.

Even worse—this has trapped you within a stagnant hell of your own creation. Nothing you say or do really matters in terms of your own self (the rest of the world is a separate issue entirely). Anything you've come to believe—say, for totally hypothetical example, that you were wrong actually and your envisioned paradise is really a hell beyond any you had the capacity to envision—has about as much permanence as a drawing in the sand. 'You' will continue, exactly as you were, no matter how much you might like to change your behavior. Every possible future has already been set in stone. You are, after all, only an Echo. You've forfeited the right to say anything you haven't already said.

For some reason, no part of any of this has made you feel more comfortable and at peace with the general concept of finality.

The really, truly absolute worst part, though?

There is no one for you to blame but yourself. And that's exactly what turns your story into such a tragedy.

[saragrosie]

I have been sketching. So much tma. Here's some expansions on my Jon and Martin designs I've been doing.

Another note I forgor to mention is I love how after hearing Simon go "it's enough to make your hair turn white" about Martin's office in s4 many of us collectively agreed his hair turned white because of his association with the Lonely. The shared consciousness is real and we use it to play hot potato with the communal brain cell dedicated to the sillies.

Closeup of apocalypse boyfriends (also to the person who said they love my s5 Jon's fancy white girl updo: I think about that every day)