#gideon the ninth spoilers specifically

[regentdidmanyquestionablethings]

So is the girl in the locked tomb Alecto or Nona? Is one of them maybe the original Lyctor, or did the Ninth house not have one? I feel like I've read conflicting information on whether there were 7 or 8 originally.

[mayasaura]

one problem with a theatrical adaption of tlt is htn, where the reveal that Gideon lives on works because of the change of second person to first.

the only way i can think of it working is that the actor playing gideon works backstage, like the lights system (but is hidden from the audience aside from subtle hints)

the biggest hint is when when wake breaches pal's river bubble she 'breaks' the lighting system and the stage goes dark. harrow is ushered into the wings by pal so she doesn't see anything, but the lights flick back on just before the curtains drop for a scene change, and pal looks directly up at the light box in surprise and smiles. if the audience is quick to turn around they can see a flash of a black robe.

Oh boy my friend, have you come to the right place!!

So, fun fact about ninja. Bear with me, I am going somewhere with this. The image of a ninja covered head to toe in black, with a hood and mask, comes from Kabuki theatre. It was originally a stagehand uniform. Like stagehands in modern theatre, stagehands in Kabuki would wear all black to signify that they were not really there, and whatever effect they were causing (carrying a prop, creating a breeze, ect.) was to be taken as happening on its own. Basic stagehand stuff, a lot of productions in many styles around the world do it, especially if they don't have fancy rigging systems.

Someone (I don't remember who now, or in what play) had the idea to dress the ninja in a production up as a stagehand. In the convention of the theatre, this made them invisible. The audience was already so used to ignoring stagehands, they didn't know any more than the characters that the ninja was present, despite the actor being clearly visible on stage. Which meant when the ninja struck, it was as if out of nowhere. I can only imagine the uproar in the theatre the first time it happened. It worked so well as to become commonplace, and the rest is history. The popular image of a ninja is still a kabuki stagehand.

So, back to the stage play of Harrow the Ninth. I think you've hit almost exactly on how to incorporate the Gideon twist into a theatrical production. But not as a lighting tech. Gideon is a stage hand. Maybe there would be more than one stagehand, maybe she would be the only one, but she would operate in full view of the audience, literally setting the scenes. I think it works best if she's the only one, but if the production needs more, she should subtly stand out in some way. As the play went on, we would notice that this one stage hand... increasingly interacts with Harrow, though Harrow never acknowledges it. At first it might look like she's playing Harrow's necromancy, because that would be the main special effect she would need to help with. When Harrow is unconscious at the end of a scene, it's always the same stagehand carrying her out. But we all know she's not really there. Until Palamedes acknowledges her. Turns to look right at her, and speaks to her. I can see the scene clearly. He would look at her, stunned, until Gideon finally took off her mask. The line "Kill us twice, shame on God," would be addressed to Gideon, and then he would turn back to Harrow, kiss her on the forehead, and tell her to go. Gideon, always out of Harrow's line of sight, would guide Harrow away while Harrow looked back at Palamedes.

[douche-canoe-regatta]

Harrow meeting Kiriona:

hmm

HMMMM

[beguilingcorpse]

i do think it reveals a lot about john gaius that he named U— and T— after literary characters (or at least that their names have literary bases, even if he claims that ulysses was named after his grandma’s cat). and i think that the instinctual interpretation is that titania was inspired by a midsummer night's dream and ulysses was pulled from the latinised version of odysseus, or maybe the james joyce novel. but there is ALSO a ulysses in shakespeare, in troilus and cressida. and there is something (a) very satisfying about both of their names coming from shakespeare and (b) very funny that john named his ex-corpse friend after one of shakespeare's most notorious yappers

[texts-from-last-ninth]

[Gideon Font: (402): I'm still alive btw, in case you were worried about my well being.]

[camplease]

i'm pretty sure i have the most unpopular campal opinion in the fandom being someone who does not romantically or sexually ship them or think that's canon, but also being someone who's not morally opposed to people who want to headcanon their relationship that way, and not being upset if people even chose to interpret the text that way (as long as they don't insist that it's unreasonable or unsupportable to interpret it as platonic)

[frontlinebicepsoftheninth]

HTN Ch. 36:

But that night you just lay next to the Body, and you noticed that her eyes were open very wide, and that in the darkness they were death-mask gold.

You said, “Beloved?”

harrow calling the body "beloved" after noticing her golden eyes hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[spending-life-pretending]

I do believe everyone in tlt is a little (extremely) fucked in the head and therefore I’m not trying to delineate the tower princes as the pure-of-heart-one and the evil-villain-one BUT as someone who gets freaked out by the idea of losing control over her own body there is hmm something sitting in my brain about Ianthe thinking it’s funny to make Harrow’s hair grow faster vs Gideon closing her eyes and actively working not to touch Harrow’s skin because she knows Harrow wouldn’t like it while she tries to keep her thumbs on

[necromancy-savant]

The Locked Tomb: What Happened to the 10 Billion Souls?

After reading Nona, I had to go back and read Gideon and Harrow again to look for clues about the 10 billion souls Nona invites you to question about, and I think I've figured it out. In Harrow, Teacher explains that the reason John and his disciples built Canaan House and researched Lyctorhood in the first place was because as a practical matter, John couldn't keep using his magic to keep the others alive forever: "'necromancy alone does not confer eternal life...They had to stay tucked near the Emperor's feet so as not to strain his powers" (HtN 150). But would Alecto's body, that John made for her, also need to be sustained in such a fashion? And if so, what exact amount of energy would it take to sustain her, if normal Lyctors only require one other, human soul? Her soul is massive and only contains part of John's human soul:

You weren't the small, strained soul of a normal human being. You were so much bigger than that...Fuck knows what would've happened if I tried to absorb you all the way...But I needed a house to put you in, if I wasn't going to put all of you in me (NtN 423).

While it does not say anywhere that this particular energy exchange must be equal, there are multiple references in the series to the concept of energy transfer and an expectation that things should "add up." It also notes that in a case such as Harrow's conception and birth, it can take the energy of many souls to get the desired effect (see HtN 139 and 165). I theorize that John and his original Lyctors put those 10 billion souls into Alecto's body to keep her going in the same way as the other Lyctors because that's the number of souls it would take to equal hers.

There are a few more direct allusions to such a theory. John likens the soul of a planet to a "communal soul" in the same way that a "human being" is "a sack of microbial life" (HtN 38). Teacher says that he was "only a man, or perhaps fifty men," but what's in the Ninth House is a "zoo" (HtN 352). Teacher himself was notably only a "prototype" for something else (GtN 388), presumably a version of the same thing on a larger scale.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I believe those souls, forever trapped within Alecto's body in the same fate as the souls of the original Lyctors' cavaliers (and on a much greater scale, with so many more of them), are the true "cost" (GtN 368, 461; HtN 35) or "price" (GtN 398; HtN 165, 352, 371) of the Resurrection and of keeping Alecto, and by extension John, Dominicus, and all of the Nine Houses, alive.

[tchaikovskygay]

one thing about the locked tomb fandom is we cannot agree where gideon kisses harrow in the pool despite being given an incredibly specific location

[griddlegold]

i finished nona and i wanna talk about it but none of my thoughts are actually words so ig i'd actually like to be in a room of other people talking abt it so i can occasionally nod or argue a point

[procrastinationaccount]

"She peeled her gloves off her wet, red palms, and rolled up her sleeves for no reason, except that it gave her something to do with her shaking hands. She made her voice as calm as possible. In a way, she was calm. She was the calmest she had ever been in her entire life. It was just her body that was frightened." (Gideon the Ninth, Act IV)

"'Gideon decided that for me,' said Harrow. She was not really afraid; it was only that her hands were, and were shaking independent of her feelings." (Harrow the Ninth, Act V)

"Minute traces of blood smudged your cheek with tiny perfume blots of thalergy as she brushed her broken mouth across it with unanticipated tenderness. There was a rigid trembling somewhere in your sternum." (Harrow the Ninth, Act III)

"The corpse's mouth was soft and rough and cold, and did not respond to Nona's mouth, but a tremble went through the upper body." (Nona the Ninth, Act V)

Repressed lesbian bone nuns are repressed: a compilation

[asinglesock]

I wonder why my arms are so sore (definitely not because I carried 15lbs of groceries 1.7 miles after misreading the bus schedule, that would be weird)

[ourg0dsal]

Gideon Nav CANNOT Die. Hold on- I know... but give me one second and I'll explain.

So, as I said before Gideon Nav cannot die, or at least her body can't. Cause clearly (spoiler warning) Gideon Nav died at the end of Gideon the Ninth. There is no avoiding that.

But! If you have read all the books GtN, HtN, and NtN including all of the accompanying short stories (tho I will admit I have not read The Mysterious Study of Dr. Sex yet) then there is a better understanding of the timeline of the whole story outside of just what the three main books give you. Specifically and especially with Gideon's body. But also there are many times In Gideons life were she has faced near death events or events that she should not have survived from and still was breathing on the other side.

To go in chronological order of these events, when she was first born she was found in a container held by the air depraved suit of her mother. And while ofc In the book it does state that her mother had redirected her air supply to Gideon, but it is simply being stated to cover all my bases.

Then the 200 sons and daughters massacre when Gideon was 1 (or 2 im not sure) when she inhaled poisonous air without dying. Which led ofc to the Reverend Mother and Father fearing the ground she walked. And this is a big one because, it literally creates waves in the plot. It's a defining point of Harrow and Gideons relationship. That Gideon did not die when she was supposed to.

Later in the story Gideon talks with Pal when she believes Harrow to be a murderer and openly admits to him that "she nearly killed me a half dozen times growing up" which obviously in context was to emphasize on the brutal relationship between her and Harrow. But this could also be other times where miraculously Gideon survived death when she shouldn't have. Because as we know from the first confrontation between Harrow and Gideon. Harrow doesnt hold back for her.

Finally of all the events where Gideon escapes death, this one actually happens within the main story of Gideon the Ninth. When Harrow siphons from Gideon to retrieve one of the challenge keys. And at the end when Gideon passes out, it is narrated ""ha-ha," said Gideon, "first time you didn't call me Griddle," AND DIED." Now, this could obviously just be the snarkiness of Gideon narrating. Or something incredibly clever left behind by Tamsyn Muir for a book series that is so clearly meant to be reread. But ofc to do my rounds the next line after does state "well, passed out. But it felt a hell of a lot like dying." But then immediately after "wake up had an air of ressurection." Which honestly feels like Tamysn Muir teasing the readers at this point. The question then becomes rather, which one was the tease and which one was foreshadowing/ evidence.

Now the point of listing all of these events is that in all of these cases the chances of death are so incredibly high that for most its a miracle she's alive. Ofc most notably for the siphoning trial and the poision gas, but none the less there is proof within the written story and and out that Gideon has looked death in face and moved on with maybe a headache. And it wasn't just in her child hood this is something she can just do. Some recreated in the written story! Because as Pal said. Even with the siphoning challenge done perfectly the chances of leaving Cam with severe brain damage was far to high. And Gideon didn't even suffer that.

Sadly, despite all these Gideon gets to the final battle and fights Cytherea and does die. At the hands of a particularly pointy fence. Or was it truly the fence that did her in? Rather than the lyctorship ritual that was started seconds afterwards.

My full theory, isnt just that Gideon Nav can't die. It's that Gideon Nav wouldn't have been able to die... If Harrow hadn't sucked her soul out. There are at the very least 8 seperate events that Gideon should have died, two of which were nearly gauranteed, but she was ended by a piece of metal. Yes, a very well placed piece a metal, but the point still up to that point she had faced worse a came out unscathed.

If Harrow had not completed the lyctor ritual, Gideon would not have died. Wether or not through resurrection or simply walking it off. Gideon's body has some sort of necromantic attributes to it that keep her alive. We see this in the Untitled Entry short story with Judith Deuteros that describes Gideons body, as it does not rot, cannot be injured, cannot be fed to animals forced or otherwise. And that is all before Jod ever gets a look at the body, because otherwise he would have known Gideon was his daughter before the later events of Harrow the Ninth.

And ofc during the first challenge when Harrow uses Gideon as her eyes to be able to see the construct in the other room and Gideon is able to see the thanergetic signatures that Harrow remarks should be impossible. (I assume because the process is Harrow extracting information (Gideons eyesight) from Gideon and so Gideon should not also be receiving information (the ability to see the signatures)) unless Gideon had some form of necromantic abilities, which she was tested for as a kid and apparently did not have. Alongside not having the correct attitude to be a nun of the ninth. And so we can round it out to be her body being naturally necromantic leaving Gideon without the ability to use it. (Which Is a jump from the actual point we are attempting to use, but for now this stops us from assuming Gideon as any sort of necromantic ability which is a theory all on its own. One that I personally have no evidence for or against)

Now, that I have hopefully made both my Ap Lit and Lang teachers proud with my 3 am essay, I must give you the real tragedy of Gideon the Ninth. Had Gideon not died, had Harrow been unable to complete the lyctor ritual for emotional reasons or otherwise, had Harrow not become a lyctor and killed cytherea. Gideon would have had to watch Harrow and Cam be killed, possibly even Corona, Judith and Ianthe. And then to be used for Cythereas own motives. Tamysn Muir beautifully set up the story so that the best possible outcome could have happened. Had Gideon not died. Everyone else would have. And "Camilla the sixth was no idiot" cam knew and accepted this whereas Harrow never would have. And so the unkillable Gideon had to die, and forcing Harrows hand was the only way to do it.

[lobotomy-maybe-bestie]

hi locked tomb fandom.

so, the other day i was thinking that i really need to reread the whole series, and that i need to pay attention to detail in the text bc there is So Much in there.

you know how there's those exercises for bible reading? where you take a passage/chapter and read it, contemplate it, reread it, reflect on it, pick out specific sentences etc? well, what's more biblical than the book of our savior gideon the ninth??

anyway i thought i could make a discord server where we do these slow, detailed readings together. it'll be pretty slow and encourage ppl to go at their own pace. and since it's for RE-reading, spoilers for all of tlt will be allowed through the whole thing.

this is an interest check to see if roughly anyone would want this. if you want to be tagged in the case of the server happening, please rb and tell me in tags so i know who to tag!