#genuinely this ask is so beautiful
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xx-the-phoenix-witch-xx · 5 months ago
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[a letter written on folded paper, torn from a spiral notebook. There’s no envelope]
Phoenix Witch,
Thank you. Thank you for sending me back so quickly. I’m sorry I couldn’t explain properly when I died. A little while back, maybe a few days? A week ago. Time feels hazy and hard to track. But Krash tried to ghost themself, and I was taking care of them. Sort of. I stitched them up and they were at the station. After putting them back together, I got really bad. I couldn’t even eat properly. Then Ghoul accidentally drugged himself somehow so I went over to check on him, and I couldn’t do anything. … I couldn’t do anything and I was too broken inside to try to help him, so I left. And I was driving home and saw Krash and they were going to kill themself again and we ended up fighting for their gun and it went off. I didn’t wanna die in the sunshine, but I did. I didn’t wanna die with my eyes open, but I did. I didn’t wanna die at all. I didn’t get to say goodbye to Kobra. I saw Kobra sit with me and hold me and sob and then I was gone. And you held me too, when I cried. And you let me go back to my moonbeam. Thank you.
The static broke somehow. Now everyone else can see parts of it, too. It feels so weird and broken. But I’m alive and I don’t know what I’m trying to get across to you with all these words other than thank you. It hurts so much, but Kobra says it gets easier to live again. I really hope he’s right. Thank you. Thank you.
- Cherri Cola
@cherri-cola-soda
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someone kill cherri cola again so i can give him a hug and then beat him over the head with a stick
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letascove · 4 months ago
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want someone to kiss me on the mouth (love me openly) and love me like a sailor (always come home to me) and when they get a taste (get to know the real me) want them to tell me what’s my flavour (tell me who i am)
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gayciate · 7 days ago
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Keep writing Disney crossover yuri in your free time so long as you please; it's more imperative than ever
ADSFGGHFASD??? Thank you so much for this!! I must continue to contribute to the Crossover Yuri Ecosystem, rejoice - wlw be upon ye!!!!
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ssaraexposs · 7 months ago
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THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THEY'RE ACTUALLY TALKING, WITHOUT FIGHTING EACH OTHER OR SCREAMING INSULTS
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not-so-rosyyy · 2 days ago
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nolan said: only beautiful people in this film ☝️
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he said, mothervention!!!!
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yashley · 11 months ago
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Say something true!
#critical role#ygifs#imogearne#imogen x fearne#when you’re taking a picture of the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen and the camera falls back and fucking decks you in the face#fearne going it’s ok you don’t need to confess I know~~ while imogen interrupts to say ‘’you’re a loser’’ they drive me NUTSkljsgdlkjs#also my brain is a little beehive cos these two Started with Fearne being the enabler to darker things while imogen was cautious#to fearne Seeing imogen about to be lost to ruidus and hardveering into panic that the power would never be worth losing her#to imogen hearing fearne hesitate and deny the shard and then telling fearne she should do it anyway#the way these two handle the other's Sways in darkness in such a Knowing way - ‘’Are you sure it wasn’t intentional?’’#there’s like this ping and before it was encouraging and now fearne is scared and imogen is enabling the risk#and it’s like either imogen is silently ensuring laudna’s safety by fearne taking the shard despite any risk#or imogen honestly believes that fearne is stronger even than the power she would embrace. There is no risk. Fearne will conquer this.#so it’s like is it ulterior motives or is it faith or is it hypocrisy or is it all three at once it's so good#imogen spending her entire life running from her power so isn’t it so much easier to tell fearne she can just do it while imogen couldn’t#or is it just her genuinely encouraging fearne from Knowing the aftermath of pursuing the power#but it's like imogen ...... why would fearne choose you over the possibility for power when she's never done that before#and is this insistence/encouragement going to actually reassure fearne or is it going to be another crack#and when they do the ritual fearne asks imogen to be the one to take her out and imogen tries to comfort her by agreeing#and fearne looks on sadly and nods#remembering when she was asked to be the one to take imogen out and all fearne knew was that she couldn’t#anyway imogen's face when fearne said you're in love with me imogen said NOT NOWDSHKJF
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leeeeeeef · 2 years ago
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diamant
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amartianonmars · 6 months ago
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Description: Four panel comic
First Panel: Julian Bashir and Miles O'Brien kissing in Mile's quarters on a bed, shrouded in darkness. Julian is on top cradling Mile's head while Miles strokes his hands down Julian's back, which show's that his jumpsuit is zipped down
Second Panel: Julian pulls away from the kiss with a sigh and sits up. Mile follows and asks Julian, who has an anxious expression on his face, " Julian? What's wrong? Are you ok?"
Third Panel: Julian has now shifted towards in the end of the bed, where you can now see the rest of the room is accommodated with a small side table, a round lamp sitting on top, and a large chair besides the bedside, all hidden in the dark besides their outlines. Julian is leaning on his hands with his worried face dipped low, Miles behind him sitting up on his knees, a reassuring hand on Julian's shoulder and a mild expression on his face. Julian says " This doesn't seem right, Miles. What about Keiko?"
Fourth Panel: The room is suddenly bathed in yellow light as the lamp is clicked on to reveal Keiko, who has been sitting on the large bedside chair. She tells a screaming and exaggeratedly shocked Julian, "It's alright, Julian". Julian is holding tightly onto Mile's, his legs and arms draped over his body and his mouth thrown open in a scream, his eyes popping out of his skull. Mile's, casually holding Julian's back, says "Hi, Keiko!"
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meadowlarkx · 1 year ago
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sexiest silm line contenders
"Beware therefore how you princes of the West bear yourselves; for I am the Lord of Beleriand, and all who seek to dwell there shall hear my word."
"But Maedhros laughed, saying: 'A king is he that can hold his own, or else his title is vain.'"
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tojigasm · 5 months ago
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The Boys when The poison drips through and the cycle repeats and "you were born to it. That cold nature." And you will never escape the sins of your father and "to feel any ounce of regret, do you have to have it beat into you?" And "He couldn't be bothered. Said I was a disappointment." And "you're just like your father." And "the truth is, I never had a dad." And "There's no fixing you." And "dad, please don't make me." And "I haven't seen my father in a long time." and and and and
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mushroominaforest · 2 months ago
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So okay I know I was literally just whining about school a bunch but it is definitely awesome to get to see all my (and I do have some, believe it or not) friends again! The one I was worried about was actually super chill so I think it’s fine now lol. She does have beef with my other friends though and she does still hate the friend I maybe sorta have a tiny crush on.
(Okay so that friend that I might have a crush on held my hand today when we were walking to English class and I stg I was moments away from spontaneously combusting.)
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(Ignore the messy drawing lol)
She’ll be yapping about something that annoyed her meanwhile I am no longer breathing and by some miracle she remains completely oblivious.
She keeps doing stuff like this and that’s why we had so many dating allegations last year lmfao
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moonspirit · 2 months ago
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Hello, Moon! (⁠ ⁠◜⁠‿⁠◝⁠ ⁠)⁠♡
Some time ago you had an ask with Kald trio description, and, you know, even before it, I had one small WIP I've been playing around for some time and rereading particular parts of VBEOW... So this post was very helpful :3
So I tried to visualise this trio, too, and here they are:
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(Kàri low-key looks like much more smug Armin with black hair and green eyes, but well :D)
... ...................
*active dying noises*
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HEEEEEEEELP!!!!!
Anna oh my GOD! WHAT is this! I can't even begin to tell you how BEAUTIFUL these are hweegoagohasyugSEGSHGSGY- look at them!!! Look at Kári! Look at his little asshole face challenging Armin to idiotic stuff! Look at Hikari! You'd NEVER know what she can do to Annie... Look at Felipe! The only harmless good boi of this trio!
HELP HELP this is sO beautiful and their personalities absolutely SHINE hdhdsgef I can't take my eyes off them 🫠🫠🫠🫠 Thank you soooo much Anna, I love this sooooo much you don't even KNOW T//////////T
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demigod-of-the-agni · 8 months ago
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Spider-Man India, but... where from India?
A SUPER long post featuring talks of: cultural identity, characterisation, the caste system, and what makes Spider-Man Spider-Man.
I’m prefacing this by saying that I am a second-generation immigrant. I was born in Australia, but my cultural background is from South India. My experiences with what it means to be “Indian” is going to be very different from the experiences of those who are born and brought up in India.
If you, reader, want to add anything, please reblog and add your thoughts. This is meant to be a post open for discussion — the more interaction we get, the better we become aware of these nuances.
So I made this poll asking folks to pick a region of India where I would draw Pavitr Prabhakar in their cultural wear. This idea had been on my mind for a long while now, as I had been inspired by Annie Hazarika’s Northeastern Spidey artwork in the wake of ATSV’s release, but never got the time to actually do it until now. I wanted to get a little interactive and made the poll so I could have people choose which of the different regions — North, Northeast, Central, East, West, South — to do first.
The outcome was not what I expected. As you can see, out of 83 votes:
THE RESULTS
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South India takes up almost half of all votes (44.6%), followed by Northeast and Central (both 14.5%) and then East (13.3%). In all my life growing up, support towards or even just the awareness of South India was pretty low. Despite this being a very contained poll, why would nearly half of all voters pick South India in favour of other popular choices like Central or North India?
Then I thought about the layout of the poll: Title, Options, Context.
Title: "Tell us who you want to see…"
Options: North, Northeast, Central, East, West, South
Context: I want to make art of the boy again
At first I thought: ah geez. this is my fault. I didn't make the poll clear enough. do they think I want them to figure out where Pavitr came from? That's not what I wanted, maybe I should have added the context before the options.
Then I thought: ah geez. is it my fault for people not reading the entire damn thing before clicking a button? That's pretty stupid.
But regardless, the thought did prompt a line of thinking I know many of us desi folk have been considering since Spider-Man India was first conceived — or, at least, since the announcement that he was going to appear in ATSV. Hell, even I thought of it:
Where did Spider-Man India come from?
FROM A CULTURALLY DIVERSE INDIA
As we know, India is so culturally diverse, and no doubt ATSV creators had to take that into account. Because the ORIGINAL Spider-Man India came from Mumbai — most likely because Mumbai and Manhattan both started with the same letter.
But going beyond that, it’s also because Mumbai is one of the most recognisable cities in India - it’s also known as Bombay. It’s where Bollywood films are shot. It’s where superstar Hindi actors and actresses show up. Mumbai is synonymous with India in that regard, because the easiest way Western countries can interact with Indian culture is through BOLLYWOOD, through HINDI FILMS, through MUMBAI. Suddenly, India is Mumbai, India is a Hindi-only country, India is just this isolated thing we see through an infinitely narrow lens.
We’ve gotten a little better in recent years, but boy I will tell you how uncomfortable I’ve gotten when people (yes, even desi people) come up to me and tell me, Oh, you’re Indian right? Can you speak Hindi? Why don’t you speak Hindi? You’re not Indian if you don’t speak Hindi, that’s India’s national language!
I have been — still am — so afraid of telling people that I don’t speak Hindi, that I’m Tamil, that I don’t care that Hindi is India’s “national” language (it’s an administrative language, Kavin, get your fucking facts right). It’s weird, it’s isolating, and it has made me feel like I wasn’t “Indian” enough to be accepted into the group of “Indian” people.
So I am thankful that ATSV went out of their way to integrate as much variety of Indian culture into the Mumbattan sequence. Maybe that way, the younger generation of desi folk won’t feel so isolated, and that younger Western people will be more open to learning about all these cultural differences within such a vast country.
BUT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH SPIDER-MAN INDIA?
Everything, actually. There’s a thing called supremacy. You might have heard of it. We all engaged with it at some point, and if you are Indian, no matter where you live, it is inescapable.
It happens the moment you are born — who your family is, where you are born, the language you speak, the colour of your skin; these will be bound to you for life, and it is nigh impossible to break down the stereotypes associated with them.
Certain ethnic groups will be more favourable than others (Centrals, and thus their cultures, will always be favoured over than Souths, as an example) and the same can be said for social groups (Brahmins are more likely to secure influential roles in politics or other areas like priesthood, while the lowers castes, especially Dalits, aren’t even given the decency of respect). Don’t even get me started on colourism, where obviously those of fairer skin will win the lottery while those of darker skin aren’t given the time of day. It’s even worse when morality ties into it — “lighter skinned Indians, like Brahmins, embody good qualities like justice and wisdom”, “dark skinned Indians are cunning and poor, they are untrustworthy”. It’s fucking nuts.
This means, of course, you have a billion people trying to make themselves heard in a system that tries to crush everyone who is not privileged. It only makes sense that people want to elevate themselves and break free from a society that refuses to acknowledge them. These frustrations manifest outwardly, like in protests, but other times — most times — it goes unheard, quietly shaping your way of life, your way of thinking. It becomes a fundamental part of you, and it can go unacknowledged for generations.
So when you have a character like Pavitr Prabhakar enter the scene, people immediately latch onto him and start asking questions many Western audiences don’t even consider. Who is he? What food does he eat? What does he do on Fridays? What’s his family like, his community? All these questions pop up, because, amidst all this turmoil going on in the background, you want a mainstream popular character to be like you, who knows your way of life so intimately, that he may as well be a part of your community.
BUT THAT'S THE THING — HE'S FICTIONAL
I am guilty of this. In fact, I’ve flaunted in numerous posts how I think he’s the perfect Tamil boy, how he dances bharatanatyam, how he does all these Tamil things that no one will understand except myself. All these niche things that only I, and maybe a few others, will understand.
I’ve seen other people do it, too. I’ve seen people geek out over his dark brown skin, his kalari dhoti, how he fights so effortlessly in the kalaripayattu martial arts style. I’ve seen people write him as Malayali, as Hindi, as every kind of Indian person imaginable.
I’ve also seen him be written where he’s subjected to typical Indian and broader Asian stereotypes. You know the ones I’m so fond of calling out. The thing is, I’ve seen so much of Pavitr being presented in so many different ways, and I worry how the rest of the desi folk will take it. 
You finally have a character who could be you, but now he’s someone else’s plaything. Your entire life is shaped by what you can and can’t do simply because you were born to an Indian family, and here’s the one person who could represent you now at the mercy of someone else’s whims. He’s off living a life that is so distant from yours, you can hardly recognise him.
It shouldn’t hurt as much as it does, yeah? But, again, you’re looking at it from that infinitely narrow lens Westerners use to look at India from Bollywood.
AND PAVITR PRABHAKAR DOESN'T LIVE IN INDIA
He lives in Mumbattan. He lives in a made-up, fictional world that doesn’t follow the way of life of our world. He lives in a city where Mumbai and Manhattan got fucking squashed together. There are so many memes about colonialism right there. Mumbattan isn’t real! Spider-Man India isn’t real!! He’s just a dude!! The logic of our world doesn’t apply to him!!!
“But his surname originates from ______” okay but does that matter?
“But he’s wearing a kalari dhoti so surely he’s ______” okay but does that matter?
“But his skin colour is darker so he must be ______” okay but does that matter?
“But he lives in Mumbai so he must be ______” okay but does that matter?
I sound insensitive and brash and annoying and it looks like I’m yapping just for the sake of riling you up, so direct that little burst of anger you got there at me, and keep reading.
Listen. I’m going to ask you a question that I’ve asked myself a million times over. I want you to answer honestly. I want you to ask this question to yourself and answer honestly:
Are you trying to convince me on who Pavitr Prabhakar should be?
... but why shouldn't i?
I’ll tell you this again — I did the same thing. You’re not at fault for this, but I want you to just...have a little think over. Just a little moment of self-reflection, to think about why you are so intent on boxing this guy.
It took me a while to reorganise my thinking and how to best approach a character like Pavitr, so I will give you all the time you need as well as a little springboard to focus your thoughts on.
SPIDER-MAN (INDIA) IS JUST A MASK
“What I like about the costume is that anybody reading Spider-Man in any part of the world can imagine that they themselves are under the costume. And that’s a good thing.”
Stan Lee said that. Remember how he was so intent on making sure that everybody got the idea that Spider-Man as an entity is fundamentally broken without Peter Parker there to put on the suit and save the day? That ultimately it was the person beneath the mask, no matter who they were, that mattered most?
Spider-Man India is no less different. You can argue with me that Peter Parker!Spidey is supposed to represent working class struggles in the face of leering corporate entities who endanger the regular folk like us, and so Pavitr Prabhakar should also function the same way. Pavitr should also be a working class guy of this specific social standing fighting people of this other social standing.
But that takes away the authenticity of Spider-Man India. Looking at him through the Peter Parker lens forces you to look at him through the Western lens, and it significantly lessens what you can do with the character — suddenly, it’s a fight to be heard, to be seen, to be recognised. It’s yelling over each other that Pavitr Prabhakar is this ethnicity, is that caste, this or that, this or that, this or that.
There’s a reason why he’s called Spider-Man India, infuriatingly vague as it is. And that’s the point — the vagueness of his identity fulfils Lee’s purpose for a character that could theoretically be embodied by anyone. If he had been called “Spider-Man Mumbai”, you cut out a majority of the population (and in capitalist terms, you cut out a good chunk of the market).
And in the case of Spider-Man India? Whew — you’ve got about a billion people imagining a billion different versions of him.
Whoever you are, whatever you see in Pavitr, that is what is personal to you, and there is nothing wrong with that, and I will not fault you for it. I will not fault you for saying Pavitr is from Central due to the origins of his last name. I also will not fault you for saying Pavitr is from South due to him practising kalaripayattu. I also will not fault you for saying he is not Hindu. I also will not fault you for saying he is a particular ethnicity without any proof.
What I will fault you for is trying to convince me and the others around you that Pavitr Prabhakar should be this particular ethnicity/have this cultural background because of some specific reason. I literally don’t care and it is fundamentally going against his character, going against the “anyone can wear the mask” sentiment of Spider-Man. By doing this, you are strengthening the walls that first divided us. You’re feeding the stratification and segmentation of our cultures — something that is actually not present in the fictional world of Mumbattan.
Like I said before: Mumbattan isn’t real, so the divides between ethnicities and cultural backgrounds are practically nonexistent. The best thing is that it is visually there for all to see. My favourite piece of evidence is this:
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It’s a marquee for a cinema in the Mumbattan sequence, in the “Quick tour: this is where the traffic is” section. It has four titles; the first two are written in Hindi. The third title is written in Bengali*, and the fourth title is written in Tamil. You go to Mumbai and you won’t see a single shred of Bengali nor Tamil there, much less any other language that's not common in Maharashtra (Western India). Seeing this for the first time, you know what went through my head?
Wow, the numerous cultures of India are so intermingled here in Mumbattan! Everyone and everything is welcome!
I was happy, not just because of Tamil representation, but because of the fact that the plethora of Indian cultures are showcased coexisting in such a short sequence. This is India embracing all the little parts that make up its grander identity. This scene literally opened my eyes seeing such beauty in all the diverse cultures thriving together. In a place where language and cultural backgrounds blend so easily, each one complementing one another.
It is so easy to believe that, from this colourful palette of a setting, Pavitr Prabhakar truly is Spider-Man India, no matter where he comes from.
It’s easy to believe that Pavitr can come from any part of India, and I won’t call you out if the origin you have for him is different from the origin I have. You don’t need to stake out territory and stand your ground — you’re entitled to that opinion, and I respect it. In fact, I encourage it!!!
Because there’s only so much you can show in a ten minute segment of a film about a country that has such a vast history and even greater number of cultures. I want to see all of it — I want him to be a Malayali boy, a Hindi boy, a Bengali boy, a Telugu boy, an Urdu boy, whatever!! I want you to write him or draw him immersed in your culture, so that I can see the beauty of your background, the wonderful little things that make your culture unique and different from mine!
And, as many friends have said, it’s so common for Indian folks to be migrating around within our own country. A person with a Maharashtrian surname might end up living in Punjab, and no one really minds that. I’m actually from Karnataka, my family speaks Kannada, but somewhere down the line my ancestors moved to Tamil Nadu and settled down and lived very fulfilling lives. So I don’t actually have the “pure Tamil” upbringing, contrary to popular belief; I’ve gotten a mix of both Kannada and Tamil lifestyles, and it’s made my life that much richer. 
So it’s common for people to “not” look like their surname, if that’s what you’re really afraid about. In fact, it just adds to that layer of nuance, that even despite these rigid identities between ethnicities we as Indian people still intermingle with one another, bringing slivers of our cultures to share with others. Pavitr could just as well have been born in one state and moved around the country, and he happens to live in Mumbattan now. It’s entirely possible and there’s nothing to disprove that.
We don’t need to clamber over one another declaring that only one ethnicity is the “right” ethnicity, because, again, you will be looking at Pavitr and the rest of India in that narrow Western lens — a country with such rich cultural variety reduced to a homogenous restrictive way of life.
THE POLL: REINTERPRETED
This whole thing started because I was wondering why my little poll was so skewed — I thought people assumed I was asking them where he came from, then paired his physical appearance with the most logical options available. I thought it was my fault, that I had somehow influenced this outcome without knowing.
Truth is, I will never really know. But I will be thankful for it, because it gave me the opportunity to finally broach this topic, something that many of us desi folk are hesitant to talk about. I hope you have learned something from this, whether you are desi or a casual Spider-Man fan or someone who just so happened to stumble upon this. 
So just…be a little more open. Recognise that India, like many many countries and nations, is made up of a plethora of smaller cultures. And remember, if you’re trying to convince Pavitr that he’s a particular ethnicity, he’s going to wave his hand at you and say, “Ha, me? No, I’m one of the people that live here in the best Indian city! I’m Spider-Man India, dost!”
(Regardless, he still considers you a friend, because to him, the people matter more to him than you trying to box him into something he’s not.)
*Note: thank you dear anon for letting me know that the third title was Bengali, twas my mistake for literally completely forgetting
#long post + more tags that kinda spiral away BUT expand on the points above AND kinda puts everything together concisely#BROS THIS IS AN HONEST TO GOD ESSAY#THAT HAS BEEN COOKING IN MY HEART FOR A WHILE NOW. SIMMERING FOR MONTHS BEFORE FINALLY BOILING OVER IN THE LAST WEEK#genuinely hope you read MOST of it because yes it has Quite A Lot Of Exposition but it all matters nonetheless#put in a lot of thought into this so i expect you to do your part and challenge your thoughts as well#you see how i'm not asking for you to listen to me. but to actually Think. i want you to cook your thoughts and add some spice and flavour#and give it a good mix so you can come out of this a little more wiser than before#because!!! yeah!!!! spider man india is just that!! he's indian!!!!! we don't need to collectively agree on where he comes from#bc it gets rid of that relatability factor of spider man. at the most basic level#think of it as a schrodinger's. he is every single culture and none of them at the same time. therefore none of us are wrong!! sick!!!!#pavitr's first priority is making sure HIS PEOPLE are safe. that's probably as far as we can go that relates him back to peter parker spide#he loves his people and working in the name of justice to FIGHT for HIS PEOPLE is just the duty/responsibility he takes up#it makes sense that he loves everyone and every culture he engages with bc that's the nature of spider man i suppose#if peter parker spidey acts as the guardian for the regular folk.. then in my mind pavitr spidey stands as the bridge uniting the people#because society as its core is very fragmented. and having pavitr act as a connection to other folks.... mmmmm beautiful#that's what i'm talking abouttttt !!!#anyways guys this is literally 3001 words on my document EXCLUDING THE TITLE. THAT'S 7 PAGES AT 11pt FONT. i'm literally cryingggg wtf#pavitr prabhakar#spider man#spider man india#desi#desiblr#atsv#across the spiderverse#atsv pavitr#indian culture#india#desi tumblr#what the fuck do i tag this as#agnirambles
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cyanbeetle · 8 months ago
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I’ve tried like 500 times to articulate my thoughts about nonwhite superman and how much that adds to his childhood of loneliness and every time I hit a stumbling block because the topic makes me too insane to think but please hold my hand and imagine this little boy trying to grow up in rural Kansas and being the only person he’s ever known who looks like he does. This little boy who never has a proper answer when people ask where he’s really from, and even once he knows the truth of himself he can never safely share it. Please imagine him fighting every single day to belong and never being able to no matter how hard he tries because people will always find something questionable in the very way he looks. A lot of the superman mythos is dependant on Clark’s ability to assimilate but when you take that away what is left?? He’s just a kid fighting so hard for a belonging he’ll never have a hope in hell of being handed. Oh it hurts my heart
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gingermintpepper · 3 months ago
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hi I love your tags so so much! they were so sweet and so interesting and creative and the whole Aphrodite type of beauty thing sounds really interesting do you have any articles and recommendations to read further into it??
-hogoflight
Hello my fine feathered (I am assuming possession of feathers if you are, indeed, capable of flight) @hogoflight! I'm always always happy to hear that people appreciate my frenzied rambling in the tags :D! I have a lot of articles and recommendations :D!! Ancient Greek notions of beauty and representations of it in their art and sculptures is a pretty well studied topic! There isn't any way for us now to know definitively what the beauty standard was (it varied widely from region to region and culture to culture after all) but here are a couple of my favourite reads about Aphrodite and what her representations tell us about idealised beauty!
Probably the most empirically extensive one I can list is Krönström's thesis which compares statues of Aphrodite and literary text referring to both the goddess and mortal women to determine physical ideals for women in five specific eras of Grecian antiquity. Including measurements of the statues there are many descriptions of Aphrodite as 'curvy' with a 'voluptuous figure' and with 'ample buttocks and bosom'.
"When the beauty traits are described in the texts, they are never extreme or anything that could not be found in normal people just that they are more beautiful in every aspect. Furthermore, the sculptures’ physical forms look healthy, they are tall and have distinct curves. Great examples of this are the Knida sculpture and de Milo (the Melian) sculpture."
Of course, these images are still idealised, and there was still a concept such as 'too fat' or 'too skinny' found in written records (and this thesis even includes analysis of pornographic writings and descriptions of the fashion and stylings of pubic hair of women from different regions!!) but from an interpretational standpoint? There is absolutely no reason why these can't refer to a fuller figure. Height was also a very important factor after all and over the course of many eras, it seems like being well proportioned in addition to the length and appearance of one's hair were the most important factors (and, like Apollo, greater beauty was given to those with curlier hair)
Mireille M. Lee's 'Other Ways of Seeing' essay which talks about the forgotten female viewers of Knidian Aphrodite which is also extremely illuminating on how Aphroditic sexuality and sensuality was perceived totally differently from the well documented male voyeuristic gaze (which was overly preoccupied with the statue's nakedness and therefore over-sensationalised the statue's physical appearance) vs women's perspective on the statue which is more centered on the beauty of simplicity in Aphrodite's garment and decoration and in her power and ability to captivate both in her finery and without it. I think it's especially useful in exploring the importance of finery, jewellry and adornment in representations of Aphroditic beauty.
"Some of the small-scale copies are heavily jeweled, especially those from the eastern Mediterranean, for example the Hellenistic gilded terracotta statuette in the Çanakkale Museum (Fig. 5) in which the goddess wears, in addition to the armband on her (right) arm, the following: a necklace with multiple pendants; cross-bands extending over both shoulders and hips, with a cascading pendant in the center; a coiled snake armband on the left arm and another snake on her left thigh, and a twisted anklet on her right leg. (The left leg has been restored, and might also have featured an anklet.)"
"Jewelry is especially associated with Aphrodite in Greek literature. As seen above, in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, the goddess adorns herself with gold jewelry, dress-pins, and earrings in the shape of flowers (162–3)..."
Finally, and to me, the most important one in the argument for an interpretation of Hyacinthus as fat, beautiful and fundamentally Aphroditic comes from Brilmayer's brilliant brilliant thesis done on Aphrodite's work and influence in Archaic Greek Poetry which does away with all of that masculine preoccupation with physical proportion, measurement and bodily ideals for a focus on a Sapphic Aphroditic ideal centered in clothing, ornamentation and, most importantly cunning as symbols of Aphrodite and ultimately a feminine idealised form of beauty. This paper also discusses Pandora and Helen in these terms and it is just kind of a wonderful read tbh.
"Combining Homeric and Hesiodic elements with her own ideas, she [Sappho] alters the way female beauty is viewed. For example, the Homeric war chariot – a symbol of male, military prowess - comes to symbolise the totality of Aphrodite’s power uniting in itself male and female qualities. Having addressed the concept of beauty directly, Sappho then concludes that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. With the help of Helen of Troy and her beloved Anaktoria, Sappho sets out to reinvent the concept of female beauty as a godlike, subjective quality that may be expressed in many ways, yet remains inspired by Aphrodite."
The conclusion to all of this of course is that Aphroditic ideal beauty is much more fluid compared to its stricter Apolline masculine standard. The nuances and understandings of both are of course, constantly being studied, analysed and scrutinised but really, if Dionysus who was both bearded and clean shorn, effeminate, birthed and rebirthed (and twice gestated!) and strongly associated with vegetation can be popularly portrayed as fat and handsome, why can't Hyacinthus?!
#ginger rambles#ginger answers asks#Once again I do not care how it happens or who I have to pay#I don't even care how much research I have to do#All I care about is more unique portrayals of Hyacinthus#Literally that's it#I will go through every academic hoop to make that possible if that's what peeps need TRUST#No because there's a genuine conversation to be had about a Hyacinthus who is split between masculine and feminine qualities#Likewise there's a wonderful conversation to be had wrt Apollo's fluidity in terms of presentation and how it does not reflect on his gende#the way Dionysus' fluidity reflects on his#Apollo is ALWAYS masculine no matter his ornaments garments makeup or action#It doesn't matter that he has the prettiest curls or wears elaborate dresses for his kitharody and dances#or values the deep dyes of the lapis - Apollo is ALWAYS male and that cannot be concealed by any finery or garment#Aphrodite however is an ally in this measure because through her beauty bridges the gap between the mortal and the divine#And we see this constantly in the way mortal beauties are able to attract the eye of many gods and how glory and ultimately immortality#are gained from these things#After all even after their deaths or betrayals or tragedies#We still tell their stories and remember their names#And what is Apollo if not the one who recites all of these beautiful memories - what is Clio if not the one who records these histories#ANYWAY PLEASE DRAW FAT HYACINTHUS#PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE#I AM ON MY KNEES I AM BEGGING (no pressure seriously I'm being very lighthearted) BUT ALSO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEEEEE#TOGETHER WE CAN KILL THE PATROCLES/HYAPOLLO VISUAL PARALLELS WE CAN DO IT I KNOW WE CAN#ANYTHING SO THAT XANTHIAN DEVIL ARISTOS ACHAION DOESN'T GET ANY MORE PARALLELS WITH APOLLO P L E A S E#This is of course entirely because of my own biases and such there's nothing objectively wrong with comparing and paralleling#Hyapollo and Patrocles - however and I cannot stress this enough#P l e a s e#Thank you for the ask <33 Always a pleasure to provide more relatively obscure references mmhm#Hope this helps!#oh almost forgot
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the-eclectic-wonderer · 17 days ago
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I've been trying to make a post about the OMITB finale but I'm just. Overwhelmed. It was too good. I was in tears as soon as the episode started and I kept tearing up all the way through. I suppose it starts with finding your hero. I can't do it, Sazz. Oh, I can't do it by myself / That's why I'm here. Sazz was kind to everyone. He's gonna get you, my... number... one. You know, I appreciate this movie in a whole different way now; I mean, Sazz wrote this. It's just so, so special to have an amazing show like this that's centered on platonic bonds and the love between friends. I loved the wedding, of course, but the true relationship at the core of this show is the one between the trio, and the true relationship at the core of this season was the one between Charles and Sazz, and the way they went about it was everything to me.
I love you, OMITB. You're the most wonderful funky little comfort show ever. Never change.
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