#future!Hunter and future!Luz don't actually have a plan for what to do with him and they're kinda scrambling

[quadrantadvisor]

My TOH time travel au is like. The Collector never stopped the draining spell. Hunter escaped its influence by going to the Human Realm, but when they finally return, everyone else is gone. Goop Belos is at large, King never learned to get along with the Collector because he was busy grieving, The Boiling Isles are in chaos.

Some shit goes down, the group gets separated, and King ends up with Luz and Hunter. In a moment of final desperation, he connects with his dad, and they use their titan magic to send Hunter and Luz back in time, not in a predetermined time loop, like the time pools, but basically creating a new universe where they have the power to change things. It takes so much energy that to accomplish it, both titans have to give up their life force (a la Rise!TMNT movie).

Hunter and Luz are now a few months in the past. In their timeline, practically everyone they know died, and their little brother just gave his life to give them a second chance. They are traumatized and codependant and DESPERATE to stop the day of unity.

From everyone else's perspective, two masked criminals suddenly appeared in The Boiling Isles. They strike hard and fast, and no one knows what they look like or what they're trying to accomplish. They use stange magic no one's ever seen before, and the Emperor's Coven can't keep up with them.

One of their first criminal acts? Kidnapping the Golden Guard.

(They couldn't just leave him there.)

[mdhwrites]

Honestly I personally believe Sasha Waybright character arc was better written and engaging than Hunter and Amity’s arcs combined mostly because there was more agency in her arc and while the other two characters who go from enemies to allies to friends just didn’t engage me as much as Sasha’s.

I’m especially dissatisfied with Hunter and how his story while interesting wasn’t as cool as it could’ve been

So I've talked a lot about this in the past but the angle I'll take this time is simple: Sasha is more compelling as a villain to ally arc because the show let her be a villain.

That might sound simple but it's clearly something TOH itself struggled with. One could argue that ALL of the redemptions in TOH follow a pattern of one bad action followed by them being tenuously on the same side and then on the same side. Amity is out of character for her first episode and then Luz is actually at fault for Covention, even if Amity takes it too far. Then Amity is weirdly antagonistic during Hooty's Moving Hassle and then NEVER AGAIN. Three episodes into knowing her and she is now the person we are supposed to sympathize and want around and her biggest crime feels entirely out of character for the rest of her portrayal.

Hunter is similar. His first appearance is not Hunter. It's the Golden Guard who is WAY more fun a character than Hunter ever was and kind of a bastard. Then the mask is removed in his second real appearance (not counting the stinger in Escaping Expulsion) and he is someone to start sympathizing and working with. He is the sad but mad boy by his third major appearance and his second appearance makes him somewhat sympathetic, just like Covention did for Amity... Or For the Future does for The Collector despite lines like "I can't wait to play amongst the bones!" in Hollow Mind that feel, drumroll please, OUT OF CHARACTER TO THE REST OF HIS WRITING!

Lilith is the only to subvert this... Kind of. No, they actually go out of order but still the same essentially with her. Her first appearance makes her sympathetic and not properly a threat because she's still willing to play ball with Eda for a one on one competition, then she spends the second half of S1 just palling around in shenanigans she should not be allowing but is because... Fuck you. Then we get her one truly evil action in kidnapping Luz, coupled also with having been the one to curse Eda but that's also used to show she's a good person now so the kidnapping is the bigger deal here. Then... She's just a good guy afterwards.

This all makes for the most shallow, bullshit uses of this trope I think you can do while being allowed to claim you did it. After all, a key point to all of these redemptions aren't "Then they sided with the good guys," it's just "Then they're a good person." They don't bring who they were as a villain with them. The strengths that led to their villainy are just gone and they're hard to say what they were in the first place, what they add to the narrative in their redemption and joining of the main party because who were they before they joined. What are they actually fighting against as a person instead of just deciding not to be evil anymore or wanting the cookies that the light side offers?

It'd be like if after Sasha was redeemed, she was as bad as Anne at being able to lead and use people. If the show went "To better erase all the crimes she's done, not only will we say Sasha only is a bad person because her father is Ultra Satan but also she now is entirely incompetent in what she was good at before." Amity loses her intelligence. Her plans are always the most straightforward after she starts getting a crush on Luz and she canonically started having her grades slip. Hunter is the most pathetic character in the main cast with I think zero wins in his belt besides his first appearance despite being the only one with combat training. Lilith is just... Sad in how much they reduce all she was for over forty years of her life to go "Now she's a silly nerd girl. Fuck ambition."

And, of course, their bad sides being blamed on mother, uncle, mother kind of for Lilith actually, just that the exposition for that comes after her redemption, and the Archivists and Belos for the Collector. They aren't bad people, they just were forced to spend time with the wrong people. Now that they're nerds and led by nerd Jesus, everything is okay.

There is a VEEERY real problem in TOH of Us vs. Them mentality that comes from these arcs that's really gross. Swap Luz to a white, male jock and suddenly the show becomes WAY MORE UNCOMFORTABLE!

Sasha dodges all of this because no one tries to excuse Sasha. Sasha never tries to pretend she's anyone other than who she is except for when she's explicitly putting on an act. This means everything compelling and good about her as a villain can cleanly transition to when she is a hero, even if it's hard to believe that which the show even calls out.

There is no Sasha's Angels in TOH. That might be a weird one to reference to you because it doesn't include much Sasha but it nails on the head what makes this trope so exciting. To Anne, Sasha letting others do the work while she gets to theoretically kick back looks like the same old Sasha that she now is suspicious of. Someone who is self serving and so Anne lashes out. However, it's not the case. Sasha's ability to manipulate always came from being able to read a person's weaknesses and strengths. She's a MUCH better manipulator than Belos in this way because she doesn't leverage on you or for you to already be siding with her. She can read you like a book and tear apart your pages until she plays with your spine. And as a hero, that's going to mean she's a great delegator. She's the sort who would go "Nah, we don't need to save them from what you see as certain doom. I know he can deal with it." And she's right. Not because of blind faith but because of the same skills that made her villainous.

Something that wouldn't hit nearly as hard, or feel reasonable on Anne's part, if we didn't get so many examples of this being who Sasha is. Of the fact that Sasha uses other people for her own means. And even now, you can claim the same... Except it's not for her means. It's for their needs.

It actually is part of what makes her becoming a therapist so pitch perfect. A good therapist can call you out when you're trying to hide behind something to not get to the core of your problems. They can catch what is at the root of your issues even as you don't see it yourself. They also can see your value and use your strengths to help combat those problems after helping you identify them. It's actually pretty close to how she tried to get out of Toad Tower in her first appearance. Bring in someone, earn their trust, use their passions against their weaknesses and make them better. The only difference is that now she cares about making them better.

Amity, Hunter and Lilith could never have such a satisfying future because again: What are their strengths? Hell, post redemption, that statement stands true. You can call Amity good at magic I guess but Hunter and Lilith are pathetic people who kind of luck out in being useful at times and that's really it. These aren't people who have anything going for them. They're as good as goons with one of them being an elite in a one off episode as far as villain forces go and that's not very compelling for a redemption of this sort. Not unless you're really going to get into that and A: Lilith was one of the strongest mages on the Isles and studied her ass off so you'd think she'd mocked less for sucking at her job and being a fucking moron and B: they didn't even try for half a second with Hunter who I don't really know if they intended to make look as pathetic as he did skill wise.

So their futures are just random factoids introduced during the story. Does Amity being an inventor say anything about her redemption? No. In fact, it really sucks because Odalia would have LOVED her daughter to follow in her father's footsteps because that's the most profitable option for their company. Good job show. Hunter just takes up the job that connects him with the only thing we know is explicitly Caleb related, no conjecture needed, which sucks for a character who was supposed to be his own person. Then Lilith is... A historian. Because she likes that I guess. Does that have anything to do with her time as the coven head? No. Her ambitions? GOD NO. It's just a random choice that puts her in line with the inoffensively nerdy cast.

And before ANYONE says anything about the shortening, I want to say I've done a blog comparing the fact that Amity, in S2A (so before the shortening) has as many appearances as Sasha does in Sasha's entire redemption arc. You didn't need more time to do this better, the show needed to actually commit to its concepts. Actually needed to be willing to do its tropes rather than slapping it on for marketability and to make lazy analysts happy.

Because enemies to allies is not one of those tropes you can half ass. Not unless you want none of its power and boy, these are some weak character arcs. At least we've got Sasha.

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[talaofthevalley]

I've seen some people say Flapjack only chose Hunter once he defended Luz and let her leave with the palismen(thereby showing he's not a bad guy), but I don't agree with that when we actually see the moment Flapjack decides This boy is their new witch.

Hunter's line here can be read in several ways, either a slip of the tongue he wouldn't have said otherwise, or it is something he has thought about but just never felt safe enough to openly express. I think a whole post can be made exploring Hunter's feelings about the titan having big plans for him, but the important part is that Hunter isn't happy about that. He's not content or reassured having some big destiny planned for him, kind of the opposite to Luz. And expressing those feelings, that desire to figure out and choose his own future outloud is what makes Flapjack choose him.

The situation is an interesting echo of the Hexside kids getting their palismen by stating their wishes outloud. Only Hunter isn't saying this through any wish to bond with a palisman, Flapjack just happened to be there and Hunter's wish to choose his own future matched up with them.

I don't think palismen have a moral compass the way humans or witches do. Their interests begin and end with what their witch wants and what will help them, and not what is ethically right or wrong. The Bat Queen says palismen bond through emotion, with witches who share a likeminded desire. There's nothing about them needing to fit a 'good person' criteria(and personally I think that's more interesting).

I think Flapjack went back with Luz just to say goodbye to the Bat Queen, to tell her they've finally found someone. She has sheltered them for so long, hundreds of years that they've spent together. I wouldn't be surprised if Flapjack is the oldest of every palismen under the Bat Queen's protection. It's like paying respect to her, and sharing the news they've found someone at last, that they know will make her happy.

[crimeronan]

Few questions if possible:

Will, probably in the very distant future, Luz ever openly admit to killing Belos to her close ones? Her mom, Amity, Raine and so etc (even Eda?)…

Rereading your stories made me question something. What was Belos’ end game for Luz? Without the collector and the draining spell, he couldn’t just genocide everyone, so did he just want Luz to become empress and terrorize witches? And then?. She wasn’t like him, “immortal” etc. Could he have tried to show her how to use Palisman as a way to live forever (but be cursed) in another traumatizing lesson?

Also, will Luz get her eyebrow scar?

Thank you!!!

1) IF luz ever admits to killing belos, it would indeed have to be in the Very distant future. she'd need to be certain that there's no chance of political fallout, even if there's a possibility of personal consequences -- ie: the empire & the empress would need to be so obsolete that it doesn't matter what she did to achieve her title. i truly don't know whether she would then, i guess it would depend on the circumstances and her state of mind

2) in the earliest drafts of the AU, i actually DID have belos showing luz how to kill n eat palismen. when luz tells hunter that belos 'showed her how to do something she'd really rather not know how to do' in the first installment, it was dually referring to making grimwalkers and doing That. it ended up not making the cut in the luz POV fic simply bc the fic was already long and it wasn't as relevant theme-wise to the other horror stuff going on. belos wanted luz to carry on his ~*~legacy~*~ by terrorizing the isles but iirc i never figured out his endgame plans super in-depth bc i'm a sham.

3) hadn't thought about the eyebrow scar! it could be fun for her to get it. i'd have to decide whether something dramatic happens or if she just gets it by doing something stupid.

[numericalbridge]

! i am going to delete my fics from ao*3 by December 30 (except possibly for the team red stories because i want to add a few so that i can get a neat looking epub file for myself). So if someone was reading there and really liked them, you should probably download - but i will still keep them here, at least for now, and i might find somewhere else to post in the future - so, please, don't upload them anywhere else !

mini masterpost

Darius meta masterpost (wip) | Other meta masterpost | Fic Masterpost

Currently doing a rewatch so posting more often than usual. Rewatch tags for navigation or blocking:

#toh rewatch numericalbridge - general thoughts while rewatching

#toh rewatch liveblog - 'liveblog' posts (not really fully liveblogging, i note things down and then edit them later)

#darius rewatch meta - posts about what is actually shown about Darius, because it just annoys me so much that the fandom straight up invents things about him and holds it as canon

Liveblog:

Season 1: episodes 1-3 | episodes 4-5 | episodes 6-10 | episodes 11-15 | episodes 16-19 + season 1 thoughts

Season 2: episodes 1-2 | episodes 3-5 | episodes 6-10 + season 2a thoughts | episodes 11-15 | episodes 16-21 + season 2b thoughts

Season 3: episode 1 | episodes 2-3

Some of the Darius meta:

Post - Why I disagree with the common interpretation of Darius surrendering for Eberwolf at DoU (meta)

Post - Why I disagree with the notion that Darius was against helping Luz in HM (meta)

Post - About Darius being the most excited about the coven sigil removal (headcanon)

Post - About Darius taking responsibility for the Emerald Entrails in ASIAS (headcanon reading)

Post - Darius, abomination form and anger (unpopular opinion/meta; to be expanded into a full meta after the rewatch)

Post - about the notion that Darius being a rebel came out of nowhere and the framing of it (rant, i plan to write an actual meta about the possible hints that were present in s2a later)

Post- about the way Darius looks serious and upset when he collects the Emerald Entrails

Post - Did Hunter really have to prove himself for Darius to start to care about him? (first draft, to be expanded)

Post - about the way Darius's behavior would have been off if he was really a villain

Post - about Eber and Raine being annoying to Darius

Post - Raine, Darius and the specific word choice of 'protecting'

Post - headcanon about Darius having trouble adjusting to the life where he doesn’t need to constantly be on edge

Some of the other meta:

+ tag for headcanons: #toh headcanons

+ fic tag is #numericalbridge fic tag (english isn't my first language)

[cutesharkstudios]

Mother's Here Ch. 3

Amity:…. and that's basically our awful start in a nutshell.

Camilla: Well, it's all in the past now, and you are free from the environment you grew up in.

Amity: Not a day goes by where I don't reflect on my mistakes. My least favorite moment defenently goes to our duel. Going in, I effectively wanted to bulldoze a really sweet girl just because I had a lousy previous day. I wasn't even going to keep the oath till the end of the day, even after Eda's tricks. And when I found out the Lilith slipped a power glyph on the back of my neck without me knowing, I thought I was going to lose everything.

Camilla: Odds are you would have found that glyph at home when doing your hair.

Amity: Nah, one of the after-duel staff members would have found it during a cheat search. I didn't even plan for Luz staying around. I thought I crushed her dream.

Camilla: This is Luz we're talking about. She would have found you and reasoned with you. That oath didn't affect her glyphs.

Amity: I shouldn't have made it in the first place. Heck, on my way back before I was outed for cheating against my will, I actually thought of not holding Luz to the deal. I started to feel regret for my actions, even when I was mad.

Camilla: Well, what happened happened, and we need to make peace with it. Still suprised you squashed king's cupcake. Though that does explain why you give him cupcakes whenever we're at parties.

Amity: Even after we started dating, Luz has made sure to keep my mind away from that moment. Heck, she even made sure to not recomend that anime series she likes, YuGiOh, just because it says the word duel a lot.

Camilla: That's my girl, always trying to make sure no one is feeling bad. Say, it's getting close to dinner, how about I make tortas tonight?

Amity: I don't think I've ever had one of those. Luz mentioned they were great, but she also loves spicy food, so I was hesetant to give it a try.

Camilla: You should see me when I'm competitive. I can drink hot sause like water.

Amity: (giggles) That would be lovely.

Later that day…

Luz walks into her house, noticing that her mom and girlfriend were both in the kitchen, joking around.

Luz: Hey guys, I'm back!

Amity: Hola Batata!

Camilla: Hey Luz!

Luz: Glad to see you bonding. Hunter and Vee are on their way. They just had to say goodbye the their partners.

Camilla: Is it ok if Amity stays for dinner? Sorry for the short notice.

Luz: That would be lovely.

Amity hugs her girlfriend while Camilla looks on with a smile on her face, looking forward to the future.