#frozen 2 northuldra tribe

[horrorartist23]

Honeymaren Gákti design. I took the original design from the concept art and mixed the original from the Sami in a bit. I kinda went for a more wintery look since the animatic is also play around the winter season. And i took some inspiration from the artist NightLiight on Deviantart. They made art of Kristoffs parents and it also had traditional sami clothes.

Concept art by Jin Kim

[ericmicael]

Those moments when I feel a little bad for being a Disney fan. And it's always the same shitty justification for excluding LGBT subjects, if they're going to exclude them just because they're afraid of reactions from homophobic people, why do they still pretend to try to include them in other productions or create these plots just to discard them when they see the first idiot executive?

It's always very frustrating because you can see that there are good people out there trying to do something, but they always get censored by some idiot executive.

As a fan of Elsa being a lesbian theories, this is the kind of thing that makes me scared for the future. I'm already scared that Disney will completely scrap the Northuldra tribe, that they'll just use them to say they have indigenous representation, but then immediately throw the characters out of the movie and replace them with beings with powers just because they think they'll be more popular in marketing… And it wouldn't even be the first time Disney has done this, since they released an anthology celebrating the franchise's 10th anniversary and the Northuldra were treated as completely disposable parts.

Fortunately, as is almost always the case with these censorships or discarded themes, things end up leaking. There are concept arts of other scenes between Elsa and Honeymaren that were cut from "Frozen 2", and we have the deleted scene from "Win Or Lose".

And as in all cases, they are simple scenes, innocent scenes, a more affectionate moment between two female characters and a character in doubt about which bathroom to use, scenes that had no reason to be discarded, but still are. It is really frustrating.

[synergysilhouette]

Not trying to start anything, but I did wanna get this off my chest about Disney's biggest sequels

It's worth noting that in my opinion (and in the opinion of many others), both "Frozen 2" and "Moana 2" were extremely flawed films, for reasons most people know about. That said, there were bright points with the films, where one was perhaps stronger than the other. I'd like to discuss how both of them stacked up.

The music--This is a low blow, but regardless, "Frozen 2" wins this, easily. This isn't to say the music for "Moana 2" is bad (nowhere near as bad as "Wish"), but it doesn't have the same spark. "Frozen 2" had the benefit of having the same team of directors, writers, and songwriters as the first film, while "Moana 2" didn't (well, the screenwriter returned, but he became co-screenwriter) due to the fact that it was originally planned to be a show before Bob Iger made the decision to upgrade it to a full-length feature film. While not a bad idea, this was done at the last minute, and while "Frozen 2" had their own production issues, it was of a different kind, and the team was better-equiped. The team for "Moana 2"--including the songwriters--didn't have the time necessary to restructure the film to better fit an epic sequel, which led to (among other things) average music.

The Animation--This may be an unpopular opinion, but I find the animation for "Frozen 2" to be superior. Between the originals, "Moana" wins thanks to the colorful aesthetic. Both sequels lean towards a darker or paler color scheme, though for "Frozen 2" it's perhaps as a reference to fall, while "Moana 2" was moreso situational. That said, I felt like there were moments in "Moana 2" that felt a bit overrun with purples and greens (though the green is mainly when Moana and co. are trapped), and to my SHOCK, I actually thought the color use would've been better suited for a 2D film, in contrast to the first film, which I felt like was a love letter to 3D. (No shade to either animation style; I love both equally). The darkness in both films seems to befit the darker tones both are going for, but I think it works in favor of "Frozen 2" more than "Moana 2."

The new characters--This is where they're equal: they're all plot devices. In "Frozen 2," the Northuldra Tribe's plight serve as the backbone for the conflict of the story, and their knowledge of the spirits of the land serve as motivation for the potential solution. However, they aren't really characters unto themselves. Despite Yelena being the leader, Honeymaron being the one to talk to Elsa, and Ryder bonding with Kristoff over reindeers (it's sad to me that they had more chemistry than Kristoff and Anna this movie), none of the characters are involved as...well, characters. Their sole existance is to point the cast--mainly Elsa--in the direction of their quest, rather than joining them on their quest. And Arendelle's Royal Guard adds nothing, literally nothing, to the story, so their inclusion isn't really necessary.

With "Moana 2," it's more or less the same. Moana provides logical reasons for her crew: Kele is a farmer and can provide the team with food while on their venture, Loto is a craftsman and can help keep the ship in shape, and Moni is big and strong. However, none of them are particularly characterized beyond their one trope of being grumpy, smart, or excited, so it's kind of a waste of good ideas. None of them have their own motivations or fleshed-out perspectives despite joining Moana on her quest, and it still feels like a Moana and Maui adventure. Giving Moana a sister felt like a waste since they don't bond, and Moana's risks and motivations would've been the same if she was an only child, since she'd still worry about her parents and village. Matangi is set up to appear as a villain, but turns out to be a prisoner who helps Moana, albeit not in a way that was as deep as it could've been with her whole "there's always another way to do things" perspective. And Nalo lacks Te Fiti's purpose, instead just being a random angry storm god who lacks any particular personality, metaphor, or interesting characteristics besides being a storm for most of the film.

The Story--Weirdly enough, "Moana 2" wins this. While "Frozen 2" has a better journey, "Moana 2" has a more clear end goal; there's no confusing mystery or plot expansion we have to work on. Moana has to unite the islands, and Elsa has to find out the identity of the voice who's calling her. The "who" and "what" is a lot clearer than "Moana 2," especially since it ties into the first film.

The Darkness and communicating the messages--Definitely "Frozen 2." While Elsa's self-discovery may have been a bit familiar, Anna's was new territory, exploring what life means for her when she's become codependent on the only family member she has left, and they die. She manages to overcome it in a beautiful song, though she isn't uplifted, just determined. "Moana 2" fails to do this. The message is pretty similar to the cultural identity motif of the first film, though nothing in the film really capitalizes on the idea of losing your identity or turning your back on your culture. As for the darkness, Moni almost dies, and it's a pretty depressing moment, but Maui sings a pep talk song, and suddenly everyone's ready to roll. There isn't really a processing of stress or failure in this moment, and the song isn't even a growing song like "I am Moana" where it starts off sad but grows to be empowering.

Overall, I think both films needed more work (though Disney's whims have played a part in that), but "Frozen 2" had a better foundation and execution, in contrast to "Moana 2, which just felt simple and average.

[tadpole-art]

I am both excited and terrified for Frozen 3,,,despite all of its flaws I really love Frozen 2 but I'm sad about all of the production problems it had and hope that Frozen 3 is given the time to deserves to fully flesh out its story ;-;

I really hope it expands more on the Northuldra, especially since it was revealed in a book that Iduna wasnt originally from that tribe. Theres just so much untapped potential regarding the Northuldra and spirits and Anna and Elsa's connection to it, I'm excited to see where it goes :)

[justlookatthosesausages]

Frozen 3 trailer concept

(Arendelle town seen from above in bird view, slowly panning down to Anna and Elsa happily walking down a street. There are changes in buildings and town layouts showing that time has passed since Frozen 2, they are wearing new outfits, and they laugh and chat before the camera catches up to them. They keep walking.)

Anna: So! What are the news since last friday? I love our little catch ups.

Elsa: You first.

Anna: Meh,

(shots of Anna in Queen attire helping people around, participating in events, leading political meetings) Anna's voice-over: you know, Queen stuff. How about you?

Elsa: Well,

(shots of Elsa helping Northuldra in the forest, gathering reindeer as she rides Nokk, running in panic after Bruni) Elsa's VO: the usual Fifth Spirit routine.

(back to Arendelle's streets; Elsa shrugs with humor. Then her smile vanishes, she frowns in concern)

Elsa: Though, there's this odd thing that happened the other day in Ahtohallan...

(shot of her widening her eyes in the dome of memories, staring in awe at something off screen)

(back to Elsa in Arendelle's streets, she stops walking and stares at Anna)

Elsa: I saw memories... Not from the past...

(same shot of Ahtohallan, reverse angle where Elsa lifts her hand to a group of ice statues to reach it in disbelief, the scene clearly has not happened before and features older versions of the main characters) Elsa's VO: ...but from the future.

(title screen that reads "IN 2025")

(Honeymaren and Ryder walking with a nervous Elsa in the Forest) Honeymaren: There must be an explanation.

(title screen that reads "JUMP FORWARD")

(Frohana characters walk around ice statues that Elsa crafted in the main hall of Arendelle in awe, looking at every detail)

Kristoff: So these come from... Our future?

Anna: This is incredible.

(close shot of Olaf walking to the statue of his future self, his admiration switches to a smirk, he wiggles his eyebrows, the trailer music stops) Olaf: I look good.

(trailer music resumes, title screen that reads "FOR A FINAL FROZEN ADVENTURE")

(close shot of Anna, looking very serious) Anna: You have Arendelle's full support.

(shot of Northuldra tribe + Frohana staring up at something big off screen, Anna and Elsa have protective hand gestures towards each other) Anna's VO: Whatever we do... Elsa's VO: We do it together.

(trailer music blasts, new logo appears)

(boom with a title screen that reads "NOVEMBER 2025")

[greatqueenanna]

What is your opinion about #BringElsaHome and do you believe this campaign could have any influence on “Frozen 3” and “Frozen 4”? Maybe change the ending of "Frozen 2"?

Personally, I don't believe they will change what was established at the end of “Frozen 2”: Elsa guardian of the Enchanted Forest living in the forest, and Anna Queen of Arendelle. And I actually believe that this campaign was much more trapped within the fandom, unlike #GiveElsaAGirlfriend, which reached even people who don't know much about the franchise.

This ending of “Frozen 2” has already been reinforced several times as the most correct possible in other materials (“Polar Nights” technically has an entire Elsa monologue on the subject), and having two queens instead of one in the franchise seems to be more interesting for Disney. But can there be any change, even if small, to try to please the people who ran this campaign? One solution I've heard is to have Arendelle be ruled by the two sister queens instead of just Anna, but I still think that would belittle the Enchanted Forest, and while there is this mystery surrounding how the franchise will develop the Northuldra Tribe in the future (there is people theorizing that the tribe will become even more secondary in the next films), I don't think they would do that, but rather that they will continue with what was established at the end of the second film.

My overall opinion of them is very negative, to be honest - for a variety of reasons that I will not go into detail here. It has more to do with their behavior, rather than their opinions.

Regardless, I do not believe that BEH has enough influence to cause any real change within the narrative of the franchise, and especially since the group has been toxic and just really cringe for the majority of the campaign's lifespan.

The Northuldra are definitely not going anywhere. Disney did not sign a deal with The Sami Council and Sami Film Institute just to erase the Northuldra from the franchise. That would be really shitty of Disney to dis them after all this work they put in to give a respectful representation of the Sami-inspired characters.

Elsa and Anna have already been shown in post-side content in their roles, as you mentioned. Disney is standing behind the ending of F2 and have not shown any evidence of back-tracking. The current team on F3 have also already established that Anna and Elsa are "busy in their new roles".

Thus, the request to retcon F2 is already being ignored by the company and film team. Also, it's just nonsensical to think that the sequel that made 1.453 billion and is currently the one of the highest grossing animated film of all time is just gonna be thrown out just because of some critiques.

The best they'll probably do is just show that Anna and Elsa spend a lot of time together and are still close, and especially since protecting The Enchanted Forest and everything associated with it is an important part of Anna's reign and her heritage. They will probably also just better explain Elsa's new role, and show exactly how Anna and Elsa are still working together even though they are living apart.

[girl4music]

So Frozen 2. The first movie is about self-acceptance. This movie is about self-discovery. Elsa feels that while everything is going good for her at the moment in her Kingdom of Arendelle that she’s not where she belongs - not who or where she’s meant to be. Elsa accidentally awakens the four spirits (Air, Fire, Water and Earth) of the enchanted forest when she hears a voice calling to her and she listens to it. Anyway, they get called out to the enchanted forest by Gale (spirit of Air) to put things right in the past between their Kingdom and the indigenous tribe of Northuldra and Elsa learns her true nature. We eventually find out that she’s hearing the voice because she is the fifth spirit and the voice that’s calling her is her from the future.

The truth was calling out to her because longtime lies from their past needed to be uncovered. Longtime lies that have segregated an entire community of people that were meant to be together. They were meant for their lives to be intertwined as Anna and Elsa’s mother was Northuldran and their father was Arendellian.

So it’s all about finding the right “path” or “way” which is always a compelling story to tell in fiction. And of course, it’s not just Elsa that discovers who she truly is and what she’s meant to be doing with her life. Anna becomes Queen of Arendelle and marries Kristoff while Elsa remains in the enchanted forest with the other spirits as the bridge between the magic of nature and humanity as well as a protector of it.

And it’s just as emotionally powerful as the first movie if not more for the reason that - once again - these are dark concepts to be exploring in a children’s franchise but ultimately they relate to and resonate with many diverse audiences who struggle with understanding who they are and their purpose in life just like them.

I always say that it’s worth it to go a little bit darker as long as you know how to use nuance and metaphor to tell a story in a number of different ways so that it can be accessible and beneficial for all ages and genders.

[glorytoukraine2022]

The Agnarr and Iduna Problem

As everybody knows, there is a mix of diverse opinions throughout the Frozen fandom regarding the depiction of Elsa and Anna’s parents, Agnarr and Iduna, in the Frozen franchise. In this post, I am going to address the issues that many Frozen fans have with the portrayal of the former rulers of Arendelle and how I believe that these issues can be resolved.

In the first movie, we hear Agnarr say this, after Grand Pabbie shows them a vision of Elsa’s future:

“No. We’ll protect her. She can learn to control it, I’m sure. Till then, we’ll lock the gates. We’ll reduce the staff. We will limit her contact with people, keep her powers hidden from everyone. Including Anna.”

This decision is the cause of a strong resentment against Agnarr and Iduna amongst Frozen fans, who, rightfully, criticize their judgment. This resentment has only increased in light of their posthumous role in Frozen 2, which depicts their love as a symbol of unity between the Northuldra tribe and the people of Arendelle amongst other things. Many fans feel that this depiction glosses over the mistakes that they made in the original movie and the impact that those mistakes had on their daughters.

On many points, I agree that Agnarr and Iduna should be held accountable for their decisions and the resulting consequences. However, I disagree that Agnarr and Iduna were intentionally abusive. Yes, Agnarr and Iduna are definitely in the wrong in many regards, but I do not believe that they are beyond nor undeserving of redemption.

The problem with their depictions in the first two films, is that they are shown at two opposite extremes. The first film shows their mistakes, while the second depicts them as peace bringers that died trying to help Elsa. There needs to be a balance. I think that it would do Agnarr and Iduna justice, as well as ease the unresolved problems fans still have with their characters, if the Frozen franchise was able to depict them as genuinely well meaning, yet flawed, parents and rulers. The Frozen movies have given us two strong female leads that are kind, compassionate and heroic, but not without their flaws and imperfections. So why can’t they depict the sisters’ parents the same way?

Frozen fans aren’t wrong when they try to defend Agnarr and Iduna as good rulers and parents. Nor are other Frozen fans wrong when they say that Agnarr and Iduna should be held accountable for their actions. Fans on both sides carry valid arguments that I agree with and hope that the creators of Frozen understand and acknowledge. It is completely possible to write characters as genuinely kind people with good intentions, while also calling out their mistakes. It doesn’t make them irredeemable. It gives them depth and complexity.

Imagine if Agnarr and Iduna were written that way? I know that I am not the only person who loves complex characters. Many people do. If Agnarr and Iduna were depicted as good people, while acknowledging their flaws and poor choices, I believe that it would not only satisfy the concerns of many fans, but make them more relatable to the audience.

Agnarr and Iduna are two characters that are heavily criticized by the Frozen fandom for their past mistakes. Yet, I believe, that if depicted as loving parents who made bad choices, that it would give them a level of complexity that would both satisfy and attract fans.

[prismatoxic]

i am thinking about frozen 2. it makes me really mad bc they shafted kristoff and made anna wildly ooc every time she had to accidentally spurn him. kristoff and anna are my fave disney couple don't @ me

anyway bc kristoff is so saami coded (tribe of indigenous people that the northuldra are also based off of) i think he should be revealed to be from a tribe of indigenous people also. probably when he meets ryder, like he explains how he met sven and got into reindeer and ryder thinks it sounds like one of the other tribes he's heard tale of.

also he only tries to propose once, at the start. anna goes after elsa and kristoff shelves the idea. then, get this: a massive adventure begins, and he TAKES IT SERIOUSLY and DOES NOT TRY TO PROPOSE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.

when anna destroys the dam, elsa does not save arendelle. arendelle is destroyed. elsa does reappear though, probably still riding the nokk, and like, idk... calms the rock giants or something.

knowing arendelle is gone, elsa struggles with the fact that her people need her, but anna reassures her that she can handle it. elsa crowns anna the new queen, and several northuldra return to the ruined kingdom with her and kristoff (and sven and olaf too i guess) to help rebuild and provide relief and aid to the displaced people. also kristoff's tribe arrives to help as well, and kristoff gets a little bonus closure about his past.

sometime after the rebuilding efforts are underway, kristoff is concerned about what anna being a queen is going to do to their relationship. anna surprises him by proposing, stating she'd be nowhere without him and wants him by her side. and hey, a queen needs a king, right? he says yes and they have a cute little moment. then like, the story closes with elsa reading a letter about the upcoming wedding, and then she rides off into the sunset.

also like. the new arendelle being ruled by a half-northuldra woman and a [other indigenous tribe] man would be a really fitting end for it i think.

i know frozen is all about ~sisterly love~ but it was simply unfair to get me invested in a het ship and then drop the ball so hard.

[princess-ibri]

Do you plan on adapting Snow Queen Ingrid from OUAT Season 4 in your Disneyverse version of Frozen

I have Idunna having a sister called Ingrid --or rather Inge, as I decided Idunna is an Arendellean version of her Northuldra name, Idun--as well as a sister called Hege to round out the trio. But the two sisters have passed away by the time we see her as a child in Frozen 2 (as a tie in novel says she was an orphan adopted from another tribe, hence why she looks different then the Northuldra we see in the film)

So that's as close as we'd get in the DisneyVerse. But I do want to do an adaption of the actual Snow Queen fairytale at some point!

[horrorartist23]

❤️New Addition to the family❤️

Meet little emmi. Its a bit of a random name but it was also the first that popped into my mind when I was drawing the little one. Anna would freak out if she found out lmao❤️

[ericmicael]

My fear that "Frozen 3" will end up confirming one of the worst theories about the Northuldra Tribe and which was intensified with the release of "All is Found: A Frozen Anthology" for me has never been so real.

The theory is a response to the theory that Disney would always need to ask for permission from the Sami Tribe to do something relevant with Honeymaren, Ryder and Yelana, which is why these three, who are the only named characters from the tribe, have disappeared from the extra materials and are so little present in the marketing, with the Enchanted Forest itself having its name changed to Arendelle Forest for Disney to use it in its parks.

The theory behind the answer is that Disney would replace them with a new group of characters who would be the focus of the new film and would only use the Northuldras as background characters. And honestly, this concept art has revived that fear of mine.

A place that seems to have little to do with the Enchanted Forest and figures that seem to indicate a new inhabited magical kingdom, which made some people create a new theory that also worries me: Elsa changing home again, but this time she would change from a place that brings her a great sense of freedom and connection with her mother to a kingdom with magical people like her, which would make the change more acceptable to the general public.

And let's remember that among the 18 questions that came up in the F3 presentation, there were none related to Northuldra or Elsa's presence in the Enchanted Forest, but rather: "who gave Elsa her powers?", "why there castles ruins throughout Ahtohhalan?", "where did the nature spirits come from?" which smells to me like what we know about Ahtohallan will suffer a retcon. Why was anyone really still in doubt about who gave Elsa magic after the movie? I feel like a new addition will come to Ahtohallan that will end all the importance of the tribe in this even less important story.

I'm actually afraid that there will be a complete replacement of the entire role of the Northuldra Tribe by something now officially magical and completely owned by Disney that would prevent new dramas if they want to make material about it. And the Northuldra themselves? Relegated to the role they have in the Anthology, being just a reminder that the film has indigenous representation and that Iduna's blood heritage has not been forgotten. And so a mobile game would continue to be the only place that delves deeper into Honeymaren and Ryder, and that its main highlight is confirming that the siblings have already competed for Elsa's attention with a romantic air (Honeymaren won the dispute by a long shot), and that Ryder, after seeing his sister's feelings for the Snow Queen, decides to help please the woman in a task that the female warrior could not perform because of her difficulty in talking to strangers.

I hope I'm wrong, but the way Disney has treated the tribe since the release of "Frozen 2" is yet another indication to me that I'm unfortunately more right than wrong. So many excuses not to approach a member of the tribe and so many excuses not to approach Elsa in the Enchanted Forest doing something other than playing with animals, spirits or putting out a fire being her most relevant feat there in the podcast "Disney Frozen: Forces of Nature", to this day we don't even know where she lives. It seems that Disney never cared about making us attached to Elsa's ending in "Frozen 2" like they made us attached to Anna's ending in the same film, so making a new change in the life of the Snow Queen who we officially can't say much about and the people she theoretically lives close to, but seem to barely interact with, wouldn't be that hard.

[magentacravat]

A Rita and Runeard hc

Yeah let’s pass Iduna and Agnaar, and went to Rita and Runeard instead lmao.

So i have headcanon for Rita is Northuldran and the firstborn of the chief. She and Runeard was arranged to married so the two land can have peace to the long time war to each other. They didn’t have feeling to each other at first but eventually their blomes over time. But there were still some people from the Northuldran that didn’t like this peace agreement and took that this is an act of betrayal from Rita and the chief. Known for their magic knowledge, they use it to killed Rita during labor or made her got sick and died.

Runeard was devastated. He managed to knew the that it was the Northuldran people that did it, but his proof was not strong enough and the Northuldran choose to not investigate it more. Actually they knew it was from their people, but The Chief was too ashamed to accept it that it was from Northuldran since he was the one who offered the peace agreement to married off his daughter to Arendelle’s royal in the first place.

Runeard accepted that his wife died from sickness, but from that on, he lost his trust towards the Northuldran and from that on he saw magic is something cursed. Since he couldn’t arrest the culprit, he planned to kill all of the Northuldran. He kept the appearance like he is still into this peace agreement as he slowly started to make the Northuldran suffer with the dam thing and gave them the sudden attack as the rest Frozen 2 tell ya.

Generic? yeah. Seemed off? Of Course. But thank you for listening my firecamp story. :P

[elsadidherbestokay]

the northuldra: wait, you had to evacuate at 3am because that was when she woke up the spirits? how horrible!

the arendellians, who believe in divine right rule: yes, how horrible that our wise snow queen must give up her creature comforts of sleep to protect us from the forces around us. truly she sacrifices so much for us tirelessly, as God chose her to lead our kingdom forwards!

the northuldra: what

[justlookatthosesausages]

Frozen 3 trailer concept

(Arendelle town seen from above in bird view, slowly panning down to Anna and Elsa happily walking down a street. There are changes in buildings and town layouts showing that time has passed since Frozen 2, they are wearing new outfits, and they laugh and chat before the camera catches up to them. They keep walking)

Anna: So! What are the news since last friday? I love our little catch ups.

Elsa: You first.

Anna: Meh,

(shots of Anna in Queen attire helping people around, participating in events, leading political meetings) Anna's voice-over: you know, Queen stuff. How about you?

Elsa: Well,

(shots of Elsa helping Northuldra in the forest, gathering reindeer as she rides Nokk, running in panic after Bruni) Elsa's VO: the usual Fifth Spirit routine.

(back to Arendelle's streets; Elsa shrugs with humor. Then her smile vanishes, she frowns in concern)

Elsa: Though, there's this odd thing that happened the other day in Ahtohallan...

(shot of her widening her eyes in the dome of memories, staring in awe at something off screen)

(back to Elsa in Arendelle's streets, she stops walking and stares at Anna)

Elsa: I saw memories... Not from the past...

(same shot of Ahtohallan, reverse angle where Elsa lifts her hand to a group of ice statues to reach it in disbelief, the scene clearly has not happened before and features older versions of the main characters) Elsa's VO: ...but from the future.

(title screen that reads "IN 2025")

(Honeymaren and Ryder walking with a nervous Elsa in the Forest) Honeymaren: There must be an explanation.

(title screen that reads "JUMP FORWARD")

(Frohana characters walk around ice statues that Elsa crafted in the main hall of Arendelle in awe, looking at every detail)

Kristoff: So these come from... Our future?

Anna: This is incredible.

(close shot of Olaf walking to the statue of his future self, his admiration switches to a smirk, he wiggles his eyebrows, the trailer music stops) Olaf: I look good.

(trailer music resumes, title screen that reads "FOR A FINAL FROZEN ADVENTURE")

(close shot of Anna, looking very serious) Anna: You've got Arendelle's full support.

(shot of Northuldra tribe + Frohana staring up at something big off screen, Anna and Elsa have protective hand gestures towards each other) Anna's VO: Whatever we do... Elsa's VO: We do it together.

(trailer music blasts, new logo appears in 3D)

(boom with a title screen that reads "NOVEMBER 2025")

[ericmicael]

Did your theory about Yelana come from this art or is it an original theory? There are variations of the text where Yalana shows a little more aggressiveness in her words, but if anything remains of this possible origin I am not aware.

If in fact Yelana was removed from a "campfire scene" because of previous scripts that ended up discarded and complicated the final script… "Frozen 2" was a more chaotic work than I expected.

Although it was by accident or just intentional, it ended up being very favorable to the campaign to give Elsa a girlfriend. Before the campaign had to be content with fanart or Marisol, now there is something more concise and can still be easily hidden if Disney wants.

But considering that if Yelana were to talk to Elsa instead of Honeymaren, it would feel more like Mattias who was talking to Anna. Mattias talks about Agnarr's past and gives advice that would guide Anna's arc ("The Next Right Thing"), Yelana would talk about Iduna's past and give advice that would guide Elsa's arc (Ahtohallan). And Honeymaren, who was introduced as a tree-climbing warrior, would have a role as perhaps a guide for the sisters after the attack by the Earth Giants. But now, whenever any content part of the franchise (canon or not) mentions magic and remembers the Northuldras with names, Honeymaren is remembered and not Yelana, probably not even Yelana's past with Iduna will be remembered if it's not some Iduna flashback.

Poor Yelana. Perhaps she was born as one of the main villains and ended up losing the role of villain and this could have generated a domino effect that diminished her in all the characteristics that remained.

Parallel with Mattias? It was taken from the scene that would provide the best parallel for this to be used in a joke.

Source of information about magic? Your disciple, Honeymaren, will pass on her knowledge to Elsa.

Past with Iduna? Who cares, Elsa can now get any information through Ahtohallan. And if we want to remember this relationship without using Elsa's powers, just do a flashback to Iduna and Yelana doesn't need to open her mouth.

And for me Yelana is my main bet for a character who could die in “Frozen 3” and “Frozen 4”, this in addition to establishing a threat if it were during an attack could also elevate Honeymaren to the status of leader of the tribe.

I didn't want ElsaMaren to perhaps be elevated (intentionally or not) thanks to the diminution that Yelana suffered. But I can't deny that maybe it helped. Again, poor Yelana.

Regarding the future, I'm curious to know what Jennifer Lee's next response will be if they don't address the topic again: “Elsa's romantic life”. Whereas in “Frozen 2” the answer was that Elsa wasn't ready yet, and maybe never will be and that the future will tell if she will be and this has a place in her life, and was worried about dealing with current problems instead of looking for romance... What comes next? Of course they can repeat the same thing, but I'm curious if they will say something trying to escape any confirmation again.

I also don't think they made any hint of romance with a man, after a lot of discussion and speculation about Elsa's love life and in the end the cliché follows: “female character finds love by finding the ideal man”? Okay, her with another woman would also be a bit cliché, but at least it would justify all this mystery and speculation.

My bet remains: the film (F3) will take place years after KristAnna's wedding and will have hints that Elsa married Honeymaren. Nothing explicit, just hints that can be interpreted however you want and that will be the answer in Lee's interview (it will be a similar response to what the producer of "Finding Dory" said about the possible lesbian couple in the film). A secondary plot that only concerns Elsa herself and not the general plot of the film, and that can be excluded when released in certain countries. I think it's the most realistic bet for an LGBT Elsa romance.

What do you think of the theory that Honeymaren was made especially to please fans of #GiveElsaAGirlfriend and that initially there would be more moments made to shipp the two until Disney decided to reduce these moments? I'm not saying that they would actually be a couple, but that all of this was meticulously planned to please these fans who wanted her to have a girlfriend without confirming anything.

I always thought it was very naive to think that after years of Disney avoiding the question: “Will Elsa have a girlfriend in Frozen 2?” and they release the film which, despite not being romantic, still shows her talking near a campfire (a moment used in many romance films) with a girl of the same age while they caress a reindeer calf, sing a small duet and they talk about magic and traditions when it would have made much more sense for Elsa to have that conversation with Yelana, but the plot made the older woman stay away from there.

According to most sources I’ve seen (but I need to do more research regarding this, if I'm being honest) the reason Honey (and Ryder) were created was to simply have characters that helped the audience empathize with the Northuldra. They used to have a bit more story content in earlier drafts, which is a shame they got rid of chunks of their story because there wasn't enough screen-time for everything.

This is one of the reasons I feel Frozen 2 would've made an amazing series instead of a film, and why Frozen 3 being separated into two films is such a great idea, even if the initial intention was for more profit. Because let's face it, both the first and second films suffer from the 'too much stuff, not enough space' plot issues so having a show and double film will do wonders for the story going forward.

They also needed characters to help gear the story in the right direction. Honey tells Elsa about the Fifth Spirit, and Ryder helps get Kristoff out of the way so that Elsa and Anna could be alone during the boat scene.

The reason I think Yelena was probably not used, is because her original role was to be a villain along side Runeard, but they scrapped the idea after heavy criticism. Since they had already made Honey and Ryder, there was no point I suppose in giving Yelena a different role other than a leader type to mirror Mattias, especially since they had to shrink down the Northuldra's stories to begin with.

Now, in terms of Honey being created specifically to please fans who want Elsa to be with another woman, I can't say for certain.

I do know that there was a tweet that Jen Lee liked during a Frozen QandA on Twitter (X) where a user begged her to keep Elsa single so that people can imagine her to be with another woman if they wanted. I will see if I can find this tweet for you, but as Jen Lee deleted her Twitter, I’ve lost a lot of sources.

Unless her sentiments have changed, I think Jen Lee will try to keep Elsa single for as long as possible so that fans can decide for themselves what Elsa's sexuality is. Elsa means so much for fans of all sexual orientations, leaving her sexuality open lets fans have freedom with her character. Jen Lee was always about leaving things open for fans, so this concept is not a stretch.

Thus, the possibility that Honey was introduced so that Elsa can have a strong relationship with another woman that is not Anna, but is left open so that fans can interpret the relationship as romantic or platonic, could be a thing.

However, as said, there is no evidence for it other than speculation.

This is also the reason that I pretty confident that Elsa will never be paired off with a man either. They want to leave it open for fans to decide for themselves. Again, unless their thoughts have changed on the subject.