#for the entire season it seems

[lewishamiltonstuff]

Did he buy co ords in bulk?

[sparrowlucero]

Even if a creator is a bad person it's still okay to like their work. People need to mind their own business.

Honestly it's not really that sort of situation. I'll actively defend Steven Moffat here.

There was a huge hate movement for him back in the early 2010s - which, in retrospect, formed largely because he was running 2 of the superwholock shows at once, one of which went through extremely long hiatuses* and the other of which was functionally an adaptation of an already well regarded show**, making him subject to a sort of double ire in the eyes of a lot of fandom people. Notably, his co-showrunner, Mark Gatiss, is rarely mentioned and much of his work is still attributed to Moffat (and yes, this includes that Hbomberguy video. Several of "Steven Moffat's bad writing choices" were not actually written by him, they were Gatiss.)

People caricatured the dude into a sort of malicious, arrogant figure who hated women and was deliberately mismanaging these shows to spite fans, to the point where people who never watched them believe this via cultural osmosis. It became very common to take quotes from him out of context to make them look bad***, to cite him as an example of a showrunner who hated his fans, someone who sabotaged his own work just to get at said fans, someone who was too arrogant to take criticism, despite all of this being basically a collective "headcanon" about the guy formed on tumblr. Some if it got especially terrible, like lying about sexual assault (I don't mean people accused him of sexual assault and I think they're making it up, I mean people would say things like "many of his actresses have accused him of sexual assault on set" when no such accusations exist in the first place. This gets passed around en masse and is, in my opinion, absolutely rancid.)

On top of that a ton of the criticism directed at the shows themselves is, personally, just terrible media criticism. So much of it came from assuming a very hostile intent from the writer and just refusing to engage with the text at all past that.

Like some really common threads you see with critique of this writer's work, especially in regards to Doctor Who since that's the one I'm most familiar with:

A general belief that his lead characters were meant to be ever perfect self inserts, and so therefore when they act shitty or arrogant or flawed in any way, that's both reflective of the author and something the show wants you to view as positive or aspirational.

An overarching thesis that his characters are "too important" in the narrative due to the writer's arrogance and self obsession (even though this is a very deliberate theme that's stated several times)

A lot of focus on the writer personally "attacking" the fans or making choices primarily out of spite.

A tendency to treat the show being different to what it's adapting as inherently bad and hostile towards the original.

Just generally very little consideration and engagement with the themes, intent, etc. of the shows

This one's a little more nebulous and doesn't apply to all critique but a lot of it, especially recently, is clearly by people who haven't seen the show in like 10 years and their opinion is largely formed secondhand through like, "discourse nostalgia". Which. you know. bad.

I think these are just weird and nonsensical ways to engage with a work of fiction. I also think it's really sad to see the show boiled down to this because that era of who is, in my opinion, very thematically rich and unique among similar shows, and I'm disappointed that it's often dismissed in such a paltry way.

This isn't to say people aren't allowed to critique Steven Moffat or anything, but the context in which he basically became The Devil™ to a large portion of fandom and is still remembered in a poor light is very tied to this perfect storm of fan culture and I just don't agree with a ton of it.

* I'm sure most people have seen the way long running shows and hiatuses will cause people to fall out with a show, with some former fans turning around and joining a sort of "anti fandom" for it while it's still airing. That happened with both these shows. ** Doctor Who will change it's entire writing staff, crew, and cast every few years, and with that comes a change in style, tone, theme - the old show basically ends and is replaced by a new show under the same title. As Steven Moffat's era was the first of these handovers for the majority of audiences, you can imagine this wasn't a well loved move for many fans. *** I know for a fact most people have not sought out the sources for a lot of these quotes to check that they read the same in context because 1) most of them were deleted years ago and are very difficult to find now and 2) many of them do actually make sense in the context of their respective interviews

[lizzibennet]

penelope’s styling so far in all the press material is definitely inspired by 40’s and 50’s looks, what with the hair and makeup (clothes not so much obv) and i really like that. in previous seasons her style was ridiculous to the point of making her look childish, with an exception here or there. this season they want her to look mature, sexy, siren-ish even, and of course they can’t “modernize” her so to speak by doing 2024 makeup and hair on her, so they’re doing it by referencing looks that are not current to us but are in our collective consciousness as an era of glamour and allure. i really like that! i think it’s such a smart move, and it’s a very unique approach to characters in this show. it’s the most anachronistic they’ve been so far. i do wonder if this approach is only towards her look, or if it reflects how their attitude towards her character itself has changed this season. penelope, i think, is the character with the most “modern” storyline and the most chances of them kind of belittling the historical component in favor of a more girlboss-y take and i think there, for me at least and for now, lies her appeal: the opportunity to truly be the “audience stand-in” character

[saltpepperbeard]

HAPPY RELEASE NEWS DAY, Y'ALL

[usercelestial]

tbh i think a lot of the people saying "well both sides are wrong"/"bt stans are just as toxic" are just not exposed to other perspectives in this fandom. as a buddie fan who's been watching this show since s1, i can safely say that buddie fans have always been toxic. like as fact. to me, to say that bucktommy fans are just as harmful or just as annoying or just as bad as buddies consistently are is just. delusional. indicative of at worst a biased opinion and at best an uninformed one. buddie has been here since s2 and fans have ruthless ever since. bucktommy has been here for 3/4 of a season and for the most part, stay in their lane. i'm sure there are bucktommy fans who suck, like that's just being on the internet, but you have to be blind to ignore how insane buddie fans are and genuinely how much worse they are in comparison.

i don't want to generalize and i think constantly adding that disclaimer is annoying as hell bc obviously i'm not talking about everyone but because buddie has been here for so long and taken up so much mental space of very die-hard, passionate fans, you're going to see much more intensity on that side. after season 5, i had to step away from the fandom and the show because of how frustrating it got. it was annoying to see people swear up and down buddie will be canon by the end of s3-no wait s4-no wait s5-no wait- and ultimately it sucked my enjoyment out of a show i otherwise enjoyed because i got swept up in the Buddie Of It All and forget about why i watch the show to begin with. we've been left to stew in our theories and now we can't tell what canon and what's fanon anymore, and when the show reminds us, the disappointment and frustration kills our hopes.

i was also active in the dan and phil fandom and supernatural fandom, like ik why people think we're annoying and it's because we are. we make everything about the one thing we like, we comment on every post begging for it to become canon, we're violently disappointed when the show doesn't play into our fan theories because we've convinced ourselves buddie is going to happen by the end of the next episode or actually the end of this season or actually maybe the end of the next season. we've torn a part every female love interest, either making them boring or making them unlikeable in our fanon. all that to say is that when people call us annoying, they're telling the truth and when bucktommy fans say buddie fans are toxic, they're coming from a sincere place. i mean we can't even enjoy our own ship because we're so quick to get our hopes up and be let down about something as stupid it becoming canon. who cares if it becomes canon, just like it to like it.

and it makes sense why there's perceived "toxicity" on the bucktommy side. our energy is being matched; the obsession, the passion, the surge in fandom. if you don't like it or even just find it annoying, i suggest you guys look back on your own posts and comments and behaviors towards other people in the fandom and other characters and unbiasedly compare it to the Toxic Bucktommy Shippers you're claiming you hate. if bucktommy fans are obsessive, it's because we've set the stage for that. if bucktommy fans are getting aggro and defensive, it's because buddie fans have been on the opposition and don't know how to turn it off. we've gone from underdog to bully somewhere in the last 6 seasons.

[5hrignold]

this

[muninnhuginn]

The good thing about this being a weekly airing series is that I'll get to see pretty quickly if I'm on the mark with this but rn am thinking of how pre-amnesia seven was unreadable and so people presumed the worse. Like, we know this part already. His (relative) silence and lack of clear expression let people read into him what they thought fitting.

With post-amnesia seven meanwhile, one of his main characteristics is how *chatty* he is. Someone will charge at him and he'll start commentating.

So, like, now he's getting his memories *back* (albeit in dribs and drabs), the first thing we notice is the whole earnestly trying to murder some guys (as opposed to half-heartedly fighting and/or being on the defence the whole time). But, we actually see in his mind during this. We see that he's been instructed to react in this way. That he's literally superimposing skulls/monsters(?) over the Stan guys in his head (#healthy coping mechanisms). But he doesn't say anything to anyone there and they sure can't see into his mind and so all *they* see is an unleashed killing machine. He's back to not explaining himself.

And, it's just, they presume the worst this time too. Dai Bo, especially, is clearly wondering if he's going to lose the Seven he knows. And sure, we don't have the whole picture as the audience yet, but we can still see that Seven's first *action* after being set off was actually to *protect* the healer. It was only after he'd acted to save that he got swept into the bloodlust.

I'm guessing a lot of this season is going to be us watching Seven acting more like his pre-amnesiac self, but this time, we'll be getting the inside scoop on what's going on inside his brain. So as the audience, we can see how he's both his past and present (how his past was never as different as it seemed), but those around him won't get that insight. They'll be forced to trust in the bonds Seven built with them previously. And it'll either come down to them seeing through Seven to the root of his actions or to Seven actually being able to *communicate* this time, now he's actually been able to make connections of his own. Connections his past self was sorely lacking.

[quasi-normalcy]

"Picard season 3 was the perfect end to the TNG era!"

How the TNG era begins: Humans prove their worth on the galactic stage by solving a space mystery, choosing reason over violence, and liberating a captive alien godling.

How the TNG era ends: The crew get together to do a Death Star trench run on a Borg cube, annihilating an entire species.

[independent-fics]

The Leverage OT3 in Every Episode

Leverage: 01x06 The Miracle Job

[navree]

i request monetary compensation from all the bitches in season 4 who were whining at jon about how immoral it was for him to ask people questions when apparently he could have been making people run to death or otherwise kill them after forcing statements (without even having to ask a question). y'all got the nicest version of what the archivist could be and you were assholes about it for no reason, shame shame i know your name

[dxxtruction]

its probably meant to be somewhat ambiguous but it seems most likely that armand was gaslighting louis so that he didn't trust himself and daniel didn't trust him. he also seemed to basically get what he wanted by instigating a fight and igniting some passion, we see by next ep's start it probably got resolved with sex and absolution. idk the talamasca angle is not as interesting a story

Ask is in reference to this post: HERE

That's cool. You're able to hold that I'm able to hold mine. Interpretations are just that. I will say it doesn't matter whether Armand planted them, or not, because he still ends up gaslighting Louis in the 2x04 argument anyway. It’s effectively gaslighting even if they are telling the truth here as they see it because of how things stack up and what's said.

It is basically how you said, and I'll just go ahead and expand for anyone who might not see it so clearly. Initially, it seems he's more or less trying to just get Louis off his case for the photos, and is willing to throw him, his mental state, and character under the bus, to do so. But Louis already straight up knows him of doing manipulative things, of this exact sort, in the interview before this event even occurred - Namely that Armand is making himself look far more approachable, and better to Daniel, even after they'd both agreed to basically tear this guy to shreds, which makes Louis look worse by default, and goes against what they agreed to both do. Armand has a repeated tendency to fall through on his promises, or promise things, but then take it his own direction when it suits him. In all cases, he does keep obstructing Louis interview, especially when it comes to Daniel, and won't fully admit to it. - this is why Louis' so reactive, among just the fact he has trauma related to being denied his own interiority, fullness, and freedoms, because he's Black, and in society, seen less human. Armand simply doesn't help his case by denying it, even if it were actually his truth that the photos weren't his doing. (Note; Armand has also faced horrific dehumanizing traumas, but in such a differing way I don't think he's able to empathize with the same way Louis been dehumanized in life. I argue a little if Louis is even able to do more than simply hold a lot of sympathy for Armand, as they really are not a lot alike in both their interior and exterior reality. I don't think that sympathy goes both ways often.)

The way he's also keeps behaving like the bigger person in this reinforces the belief Armand wants out of Louis, making him 'see' it, and probably also to Daniel as well who's definitely overhearing this (this particular part has a chance of being unintentional however, if he was only really intending to deescalate, but it still keeps the same effects).

Not only making Louis look like he's crazy to assume it, but denying he'd been doing anything wrong of the sort (by simply at no point coming forward and saying something reassuring of Louis reality along the lines of, 'I have been doing those things, it's just not this, and those weren't my intentions to hurt you with it, I'm sorry' or simply 'okay, I did it, sorry'). As well, it doesn't matter how much Armand's truthful, Louis is someone who necessarily does need reality checks like that, because he suffers from hallucinations, and as he's finding out, memory lapses, and not providing them will make him jump to presume it could be his own symptoms. Also, at one point in the argument, he actually throws out that Louis is insane, if it needed to be anymore obvious. Which is derogatory, if arguably true, though reinforces that Armand's behaviors to 'stop or aid his madness' in prior instances were all a-okay, and all necessary. There's nothing wrong with him, and what he's doing, its all Louis. (His intentions to deescalate, if anyone wants to take on that idea, would've changed by then. It reads as a pattern to me mimicking of the promises falling through.)

Anyway, I'd be saying in my interpretation that him willing to keep this up, even though the photos had nothing to do with it, just shows how much he'd actually use any situation that arises to manipulate/control Louis, and mess with Louis interview, as opposed to orchestrating or planning situations, so he can then also manipulate with it. With all intentions or not, it doesn't really matter. Which makes his manipulation more realistic, honestly. A better portrait of who Armand is tbh.

I don't claim this transcript as 100% accurate, but it's as close as I can get it:

L: Four Fred Steins in the album, four. You made me look foolish. 

A: You just assume it was me. 

L: Well, it wasn’t me. 

A: You sure about that? 

L: Excuse me?

A: I take it back. 

L: Take it way fucking back. 

A: It was probably an honest mistake from the staff.

L: You think I need to be coddled, hyped up, lied to? 

-cut-

A: You’re being Lestat! 

L: Go call on him, see what happens. 

A: A little ridiculous… It's the staff, dear.

L: I’m being ridiculous? You wanna see, you wanna see ridiculous? 

A: No, Louis, it was an honest mistake. You knew it.

L: AAAH

A: You weren’t here- 

L: LA LA LA LA

A: -And more and more of them-

L: LA LA

A: They got through! 

-flashbacks-

A: This isn’t about Lestat! 

-more flashback-

L: You lobbed at Daniel, and disrespected me. 

A: no no no no no no.

-flashback-

L: and over and over and over it’s always the same damn thing. 

A: You trying to trick me?

L: I don’t know I’m just your God now. The abandonment, and aren’t we both cut throat? 

A: You won’t believe me, when I was here. I’m the one who can see! 

L: Alright, first off, first off. 

A: You are insane! 

-fb-

L: You always do this! … We’ll be done with Daniel any day now. Now, knock it off. Its about the record, this is my interview. You hear me? The whole interview that will be heard by me. 

A: In a future that you won’t see!

-fb- 

L: No more! Will you go to speak without asking first. No more! Will you ever flirt around on your years. 

A: Oh, come to Dubai, Louis says, but not me. 

-Then I can’t make out anything-

Sex and absolution I do agree with as well. Like they did do that. I don't think either were expecting it to go that way from the beginning, though, as in neither started or orchestrated a reason for argument just to have makeup sex. That being somewhat normal for them after a big argument like that would not surprise me however. A certain interpretation I take of them having sex after (given the argument) was more that (it seems to me) part of the accusations here is that Armand is 'flirting' to win over Daniel's favor, and trying to get with him? Maybe even back together with him? (Centered a lot around Armand telling him his little love story with Lestat.) If not, just turning him against him. So having sex could reinforce Armand had/has no intentions of leaving, further obstructions wrt Daniel, and/or infidelity. That it's 'me and you' and not 'you and him'. (Which could be the real lie depending on how you want to take it here lmao. And is so bound to fall through because... Armand doesn't keep his promises, not even to himself it seems since he turned Daniel).

Again all interpretations are just that, so long as it can be legitimately supported by the text, and isn't grossly insensitive. The Talamasca just adds to the whole scene to me more than it detracts from it. The outside world necessarily has influenced both of their inside worlds, and further how they interact with each other in both, and is the cause behind of a lot of their behaviors and reactions. Talamasca causing those to erupt sort of points to that. It's real. The whole narrative actually feels more concrete and like there's a world outside who can still influence them if they were the one's doing it. Sometimes I feel people want to center Louis a bit too much in the story, which is fair, it is his story, he has a narrative that should be centered, but it is also other people's story as well. They are playing roles here in it.

Also this is why I really wonder if they'd ever revisit this? I'm a little peeved about it being so hidden tbh. There seems like so much added context and we're denied most of it from the music and constant flashbacks. Fingers-crossed maybe Daniel was recording it? IDK.

[emblazons]

“But people have been shipping mlvn for nearly a decade now, they wouldn’t just sweep it under the rug/recontextualize them as something entirely non-romantic from the beginning” friend I hate to tell you this but: the show and narrative is not subject to the time investment you put into it (or your initial perceptions) just because it took longer to make than expected.

They can’t do xyz because it’s been too long is literally the full embodiment of the sunk cost fallacy—especially given that (when you consider the time frame the show is actually presenting us with) mlvn have only known each other 3 years total at this point in the story and have been on nothing but the rocks after (at absolute maximum) 15 months together (snowball - S4, half of which was long distance and none of which we’ve seen portrayed 100% positively).

Like…if you think the romantic aspect was 100% genuine I can’t stop you yet, but time investment by yourself or the causal audience in understanding something a certain way isn’t any reason at all to keep your understanding of the context in mind. It’s basic media literacy to understand that new seasons provide new context for interpreting previous events…which everyone understands about things like the demogorgon / mindflayer / 001 + Henry + Vecna, but somehow miss because of an old attachment to mlvn. Time and new seasons change the meaning AND context of seasons past—no matter how attached you are to a certain interpretation that might have held up when we all had less information.

Basically: pretending like it taking 8+ years to get the story out is a reason to accommodate the GA (or anyone) liking a “Mike absolutely had romantic feelings for El and they should respect that because its been a long time for me” interpretation is nonsensical—and they already said they aren’t writing to pander to fan desires (aka you thinking mlvn should have been handled differently) for S5 too.

Just. You know. For the mlvns people who seem to think time their investment in a certain ship will or should have any baring on the outcome of the story LMAO

[unsurebazookacore]

hot take, mike and el arent in love, because they are fourteen

well i guess mike is fifteen but still like as someone who has been fourteen/fifteen

GUESS WHO I WAS NOT DATING:

A. THE LOVE OF MY LIFE

B. MY FUTURE SIGNIFICANT OTHER

C. ANYONE WHO I WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY "I LOVE YOU" TO AND ACTUALLY FUCKING MEAN IT

D. ALL OF THE ABOVE (the answer is D by the way)

LIKE Y'ALL THEY ARE FOURTEEN

THEY MET WHEN THEY WERE TWELVE

"I knew right then and there in that moment that I loved you" MY ASS

[cchipollo]

had to stop halfway through the second voyager q episode but. why is q genuinely irritating now NOOOO

[tmntkiseki]

Dumb question: Am I the only one who is genuinely dissatisfied that Stockman got a happy ending thanks to Fast Forward?

[akkivee]

ichiro apparently