#for discussing canon jc

[mxtxfanatic]

I don't want to put this in the tags, since people are just having fun, but I figure you probably won't mind hearing my anon-complaints. I'm getting super annoyed by the recent influx of Jiang Chang related SVSSS crossover posts (and fics to a lesser extent).

Seeing JC interact with the PIDW world could be incredibly interesting, but the posts I keep spotting are all about the woobiefied fanon version of JC. JC and YQY are not all that much alike (JC isn't remotely loyal to WWX), and I don't think he'd get along well with LQG. The JC and SJ dynamic actually does seem like it would be fun to read, but with how toxic they both are it would be 'fun' more in the 'watching a car crash in slow motion' sort of way, rather then anything wholesome.

Anyway, mini-rant over!

Fanon: Everyone in svsss would just love Jiang Cheng!

Canon: Shen Qingqiu would take one look at Jiang Cheng and just assume that the natural state of PIDW requires a canon fodder villain to be killed. Assuming he was some previously no-named lackey, after the second time Jiang Cheng attacks Luo Binghe, Shen Qingqiu wouldn’t try to save him, anymore. Nobody else would have even cared to try.

Anyways, I know exactly what posts you’re talking about and exactly which blog keeps making them. Unfortunately for me, tumblr is trying this new thing out called “if the blog you blocked is a jc stan, the block doesn’t count,” so fuck people “having fun” in the tags. If I can’t have fun with canon on my own dash, no one is allowed to have fun with fanon on it, either 😤

[androgynouscomputerthing]

sorry but i will be bitter

please stop putting headcanons and ship art and such into the canon jiang cheng tag. its genuinely making it difficult to actually find good posts and discussions about his character.

and no, somebody saying that fanon jc is wildly different from canon jc is not being an anti, its just pointing out the obvious

i think that — and according to some people i am going to sound like an anti — the fanon jc stans need to cool it. you’re not “reclaiming the tag” you’re annoying. this tag was made to not disrupt Fanon discussion. it is here to depict and discuss Canon jiang cheng.

recognising that other people don’t hold the same opinion as you is a part of maturing

[ilynpilled]

The polls get instantly more vicious once the fandom makes it about ships (the tags from Brienne stans in the Cersei poll were vile)

oh didnt even check lmfao i think im blocked by most of jc nation on here tho

edit: honestly i get the j/b/c thing is very romance oriented but people really have blindspots about all three of them bc they can never separate that shit from them. I think all three have a lot going on as individuals. this is the reason i often dont really agree with the popular opinions of a lot of the fandom that focuses on these characters. like i care about jaime the most first and foremost and i dont want his endgame to revolve completely around either of them lol. like i dont want jc double death bc i think it doesn’t really work with the text and the foreshadowing atp and it would be very anticlimactic for jaime but same with jb married endgame like id hate that shit too. i also just dislike the general approach to romance where people think it is only rich and well written if it has “married with kids” endgame.

[thotfrnk]

jc and lxc, despite having limited interactions within the canon, its still a nice ship, they're quite similar in regards to some of their traumas and betrayals and the idea of two of them healing together post-canon warms my heart so much

[mxtxfanatic]

Well, I don’t think the closure of the overall story is that “everyone just moves on with their lives.” That’s the closure to Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng’s personal drama. The closure to the story is that because Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji (and Wen Ning, and Mianmian) fought against the corruption of the cultivation world in their own ways, there is now a new generation of kids who don’t have to suffer what they suffered at that age nor fall into the same prejudices and mob mentality that led to multiple clan massacres.

The reason why you believe that canon Jiang Cheng could achieve a redemption is because you brush aside is canonical, willing actions under the unsupported hope that “maybe he didn’t mean it.” To say that Jiang Cheng “didn’t want” to kill the Wen remnants is to ignore that he wanted them sent back to the labor camp when he went to the Burial Mounds to demand Wei Wuxian’s return, is to ignore that he hates Wen Ning because he sees Wen Ning as just “another Wen dog” who destroyed Lotus Pier, is to ignore that in the 13 years that Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning were “dead,” Jiang Cheng still attacked civilians with the surname Wen even though they were unrelated to the QishanWen entirely. The Jiang were already restored to their former glory by the time the war ended. Jiang Cheng did everything that he did because he is a hateful person who holds grudges but ignores debts, the complete antithesis to Wei Wuxian’s character, not because he was coerced into it.

And this is the problem with a lot of fix-it fics: they don’t actually acknowledge canon Jiang Cheng because they all write the version of Jiang Cheng that you just describe, which only exists in the fandom’s imagination. They start from this fanon version of him where he “didn’t mean” to kill the Wen and he “didn’t mean” to hurt Wei Wuxian but he was just so sad and hurt and he had no choice, don’t you see? They essentially erase the essence of Jiang Cheng’s character to make the option of his redemption probable, but in whitewashing his character, they tend to drag down other characters, like making Wei Wuxian “equally” as guilty and pathetic as their fanon Jiang Cheng is. So instead of being a fix-it to canon, they’ve just rearranged everyone’s personalities, invented a new problem, and had that new problem be fixed instead. Nothing about canon was fixed because the fic was never about fixing the canon, it was about creating an “and they all lived happily ever after” ending. Also, shanastoryteller is why we’re plagued with “straight” Wei Wuxian who likes Wen Qing, so I could never take her fics seriously.

In my opinion, redemption for Jiang Cheng's character is impossible. It’s odd how most discussions about his potential redemption always solely centre around his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

While it’s true that Jiang Cheng wronged Wei Wuxian, his biggest crime isn’t his treatment of Wei Wuxian—it’s the massacre of the Wen Remnants. His redemption shouldn’t just be centred around his relationship with Wei Wuxian, it should focus on the Wen Remnants, who were brutally slaughtered under the siege he led.

Making peace with Wei Wuxian doesn’t erase the much larger moral crime of leading a massacre against innocent people. True redemption should be about confronting the full extent of one’s wrongdoings, and in Jiang Cheng’s case, that means dealing with the massacre, not just his wrongdoings against Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng never reflects on the massacre, expresses any regret for the innocent lives lost, or takes responsibility. For Jiang Cheng to even have a chance at redemption, he’d need to show real remorse for what he did to the Wen Remnants—and honestly, I just don’t see that ever happening.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Jan 27th

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1. Hii! I’m looking for a fic and it’s titled something around wondering if there is a place for me in your life. This focuses on teen lan sizhui coping with the feelings of his father wwx dating again after spending 11 (?) years without someone. Wei Wuxian goes to the hospital at some point (he’s fine though) and Lan Sizhui finds a way to invite LWJ into his life after breaking a gift he gave him. I can follow up with more details if needed! The author was trying to write about a-yuan not immediately warming up to wangxian getting together! Thank you so much for all your hard work!

FOUND! Picture Perfect by manaika (M, 22k, WangXian, WWX/Other(s), Past Relationship(s), Widower WWX, Grief/Mourning, Getting Together, Families of Choice, Family Feels, Stepfather WWX, WWX is the father who stepped up, LSZ is a Wei, Single Parent WWX, Asexual Character, Aromantic Relationship, Platonic Life Partners, it's all in the past and only mentioned/discussed when relevant, Sex-Favorable Asexual WWX, Romance, Hurt/Comfort, Modern, Past Character Death, Food Intake Related Medical Issue (not what you think))

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2. hi! I'm looking for a fic where WWX is seriously injured at qiongqi path, and he's barely kept alive by talismans(?). JC hides his body at lotus pier, but everyone thinks he's dead. idk how he wakes, but there's still the 13 year gap where everyone still thinks he's dead. sorry this is so vague, tysm in advance!!!

from the 1/27 fic finder: #2 isnt the fic im looking for, but thanks for helping out! the fic wasn’t a dark, anti-JC fic, but very much a JC loves his brother ofc hes gonna do whatever it takes to keep him alive. LWJ def thinks hes dead tho

NOT FOUND! on restitution by glitteringmoonlight (M, 98k, LSZ & WWX, WWX & JL, WangXian, Dark JC, not JC friendly, Captivity, Angst with a Happy Ending, no reconciliation, Crossdressing, Non-Graphic Torture, Violence)

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3. Hi! I'm looking for a fic that I'm pretty sure has been asked for in the past, that has been likely deleted, I know someone had the pdf but I can't find the post or the pdf anymore so I'm here–

I'm looking for a fic where modern wwx receives a book from baoshan sanren that tells the story of yllz wwx. Modern wwx reads a ritual and ends up in the past with everyone while past yllz ends up in the future. If I'm correct it's a two fic series, with the second one being incomplete where yllz goes to the future.

I also remember that modern wwx gathered people from each clan and talked about the future that he knows. I know that at one point he talks about his family (lz and sizhui). There's also a madam yu redemption, and at one point modern wwx calls fengmian dad? PLS HELP ME FIND IT @dollettw

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4. Hello!! I'm looking for a modern AU - what I remember is Lan Zhan seeing Wei Ying on tv and, like, knowing he is The One in a mystical way - I want to say that the process was called The Call or something, as in 'he heard The Call and knew WWX was his soulmate'. I think WWX was oblivious to this for Reasons (par for the course) - not sure if it was A/B/O but had something of that vibe! @stackingturtles

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5. hiiii im looking for this fic where lwj's mom is some kind of heavenly official and before she escapes her husband to return to heaven, she gives lwj a magical robe (or somethijng like that) that holds images of his memories, and every time something major happens an image/symbol of that appears on his cape @ashxi-wx

FOUND? One for Heaven and Earth by cerbykerby (T, 7k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Supernatural Elements, Angst with a Happy Ending, Madam Lán Lives, inspired by wangxian selkie au, Getting Together) Mama Lan was a celestial maiden though, not a heavenly official.

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6. This is for fic finder btw. First thank you who ever runs this account. In the fic I’m looking for wei ying isn’t dead and is alive for Lan Zhans whipping/ punishment and he hears what’s happening and tries to stop it but Lan Zhang uncle just says to beat Wei Ying to (I think he was like really injured not sure tho). Then one of them ( whoever’s POV it was blacks out). There is a chance this was an omegaverse fic but idk. Thanks again your like gods 🙏🙏

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7. Ello! Looking for a lwj-centric fic that I forgot the name of (⁠｡⁠ŏ⁠﹏⁠ŏ⁠) Pretty sure this is an au where wwx is adopted by the lans, and wwx teaches the lan disciples about talismans. The thing I most remember about it is lwj being named rivals with su minshan and jiang cheng for the attentions of wwx. Wwx is also probably older? Thanks so much in advance!

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8. Hi!! does anyone know of a ghost wy fic where he teaches ayuan demonic cultivation and he kind of like follows him around and protects him? @yesibest

FOUND! as i stumble homewards by the_pretzel (T, 27k, wangxian, canonical character death, found family, food issues, trauma, LSZ pov, angst w/ happy ending, fluff)

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9. Hey guys do you know a fic when Lan Xichen started a different Gusu Lan sect that went back to the basic rules? I think the Lans dad was alive in it and he disapproved and was leading the other one. @kyuubikuroba

FOUND! In Defence of Murder by WhiteWitchDark (T, 18k, WangXian, NHS & NMJ, Hurt/Comfort, Time Travel, Angst)

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10. For fic finder

Does anyone have that fic where WWX gets turned into a woman post canon, he and LWJ decide to try for a kid, it doesnt work at first, when it happens LWJ thinks WWX doesnt want one anymore and tries to apologize for asking him to keep it?

WWX was fine with having the baby by the way, thinking he didn’t was because during the time it didn’t work they assumed it wasn’t possible and he decided he wasn’t going to dwell and make himself upset wondering why it didn’t happen

FOUND! In Sickness and In Health (And In Strange and Unexpected Times Too) by purplemonster (E, 28k, WangXian, Fem WWX, Mpreg, well technically not mpreg since he's a woman, Fluff and Smut, also I know I know I ticked the m/m box because it is wangxian)

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11. hello, i'm looking for an au where cultivators choose their secondary gender after "trying out" each one. Wwx decided on beta and LWJ omega. NHS was agender. At one point, LWJ is threatened/almost forced to permanently pick the wrong assignation for some reason. This fic was not the one by everythingispoetry, though there are similarities to their fic. Ty for your help!

FOUND? Pairfire by PaidSubscription (E, 65k, WangXian, LXC/NMJ, JC/NHS, MM/WQ, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Fluff, Relationships 101, Literally...the fic is a relationship course, Getting Together, First Time, Explicit Consent, Bordering on Kink Levels of Communication, Elements of Assigned-ish Marriage-ish, Non-Traditional A/B/O Dynamics, A/B/O With a twist, Because Cultivators CHOOSE Their Gender During This Course, After Trying Out All Three, It’s a Three Course Meal and WangXian’s Gender Acceptance is the Dessert, But Horny Pining is the Main Meal and the Most of the Snacks, Bottom LWJ, Bossy Bottom/Henpecked Top Energy, Everyone is over 21, Gender Choice Raises Issues for Most But I Promise Happy Endings + Everyone Comfy in Their Own Skin, Side Couple Aro/Ace/Agender Storylines)

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12. I've been looking for this fic for years now but I do remember the premise it's an postcanon AU?? where in a bid to stabilize the power WWX was betrothed to Lan Xichen and LWJ was not so happy abt the whole thing (I scoured my history and all but I cant find it)

FOUND? still left with the river by TooSel (E, 77k, WangXian, ChengQing, Canon Divergence, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Fix-It, Arranged Marriage, Political Alliances, Yílíng Wèi Sect, Slow BurnF, riends to Lovers, Pining, Jealousy, Infidelity, Adoption,Angst with a Happy Ending, Golden Core Reveal, Cultivation Sect Politics)

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13. Wondering about the identity of a fic that I remember only one little scene from. LWJ was visiting Lotus Pier and decided to drink about all his pining. While drunk, he demonstrated his feelings to WWX by removing the strings from his guqin and saying "Wangji without Wei Ying". Hopefully this will ring bells for someone. Thank you! 🐇💙 @linderel

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14. looking for a fic! canon era/setting with a bad ending, where wx are ayuan's biological parents. ayuan lives with wwx and the wens in the burial mounds. wwx dies either from the attack at qiongqi path, or in the burial mounds for some other reason. I rmb vividly a scene where wwx is buried in the burial mounds and ayuan cries and lies above the grave, saying that his mother is gone, in front of everyone else like the lans, jins, and nies.

FOUND! To Offer a Heart by WhiteCrane (M, 111k, WangXian, major character death, Sad WWX, Hurt WWX, YLLZ WWX, soft wangxian, Cinnamon Roll WN, WWX Whump, WQ is a good sister, WN is a good brother, everybody loves wwx, yunmeng siblings, Triggers, Suicidal Thoughts, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Fluff, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Heavy Angst with a Happy Ending, Taking care of WWX, Give WWX a break, Canon Divergence, Disturbing Themes, Changing Perspectives, Eventual Smut, Eventual Romance, Grief/Mourning, Temporary Character Death, Getting Together, Redemption, Sibling Bonding, Marriage, Marriage Proposal, Brotherly Bonding, Brotherly Love, Brother-Sister Relationships, Parent-Child Relationship, Sad and Sweet, Tragedy, BAMF WWX, BAMF JC, BAMF JYL, BAMF WQ, Slow Burn, Slow Build, Everyone Needs A Hug, WIP) Is it possible #14 is mixing up two different fics? Because the bit about A-Yuan lying on WWX's grave in the Burial Mounds and crying about his mother sounds a lot like To Offer a Heart but he's not Wangxian's bio child in that. The bit where the visitors witness A-Yuan crying at the grave is in chapter 11.

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15. Hello, and thank you again for all your hard work! ❤️ For Fic Finder, please help with locating a fic where WWX dies and the truth about JGShit, JGY, JZXun and XY (maybe even SShit, idk) comes out immediately. Here's what I remember: he sent letter to expose them, people investigate and everything comes to light. Everyone except MY is executed in gruesome ways. JZX with lingchi I think. JGShit through being slowly impaled by bamboo. MY ends up giving his golden core to WWX when he comes back. @boxedbutterfly

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16. Looking for fic in which Wei Wuxian's core is given to yanli and it becomes too much for her body and the core explodes because of childbirth and she dies wei Ying is also like lab rat for all clans wanting to know how he cultivated core in such young age I also remember that mxy actually was the real parent of sizhui who was trusted upon weu Wuxian to raise and keep safe pls help me find the fix i would also like to thank you for all the previous times you all helped me <3 @yuukikonnos-world

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17. I'm looking for a story I thought I had saved: after canon, asexual WWX, married to LWJ, but in a female!MX body. They tried M/F sex, but both found it weird. WWX one day realizes that LWJ used to look at (old, male) WWX with lust, but no longer does. LWJ tells him he used to dream of bottoming for WWX. WWX wants to fulfil that dream for him, and (via NHS?) finds someone to create a wooden penis/harness. LWJ enjoys it a lot (WWX also likes being a service top essentially)

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18. Hello! I'm looking for a complete fic on AO3 where Qin Su did the sacrifice ritual to bring back Wei Wuxian. He is now a woman. She left him a letter explaining why/what she wanted, and he has to keep up the act of being Qin Su for a little while until he can come up with an excuse to get out of Koi tower.

I don't remember what he was running around doing once he got out, but along the way he bumped into Lan Wangji, who is travelling with "Mo Xuanyu" investigating the demonic arm.Mo Xuanyu actually summoned Jin Zixuan using the ritual, though I don't remember if that was on purpose or if JZX was just the next best target with WWX already summoned. Because of Qin Su's letter to WWX (? They knew somehow), JZX knows that WWX is technically his sister now.

I don't remember much else apart from some minor stiff arguing on JZX end because LWJ is seducing his technical sister or something like that. He's not impressed/pleased. WWX is just as happy about being related to the peacock now. LWJ realises he is WWX-sexual. Yadda yadda.

Based on other fics I know I read around the same time, the publication/final update should be no later than 2022, but I might be wrong.

If this fic could be found, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance! @ramblebrambleamble

FOUND? The Tales of Despereaux by stiltonbasket (T, 53k, WIP, WangXian, LXC/NMJ, JC & WWX, JYL/JZX, JC/WQ, Canon Divergence, Additional Warnings In Author's Note, (when applicable), major ships are listed but others might pop up!) It's the first 23 chapters. Stilton's tumblr also has its masterlist

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19. looking for a fic! i remember it was either someone needs to fight lwj and win(?) to get his hand in marriage, or he needed to give them an item like a token or smth. wwx is in an animal form of sorts i can't remember, and lwj freely gives the item to him while in animal form

FOUND? it’s you, it was always you by myung (G, 7k, WangXian, Bunny LWJ, Mutual Pining, Light angst, Based on Tumblr post) sounds like it's you, it was always you but Lan Zhan is the shapeshifter who gives Wei Ying his forehead ribbon while in rabbit form.

FOUND? heartkeeper by postingpebbles (G, 7k, WangXian, Animal Transformation, Canon Divergence, no war au, Shapeshifting, light convos abt the jiang family dynamic, WWX draws a lot and talks to a rabbit: the fic, Fantasy, Mojo's bookmark, heartkeeper [podfic] by esbielle) Lwj is a rabbit with a chain with a key to hanguang-jun’s heart

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20. Hello :) I need help finding a fic, I don't know if it was deleted or not, but it was a time travel fic where I think sizhui and jingyi went back to either just before the sunshot campaign or just after it but they were either together or the feelings were there they got wangxian together early and wangxian I vaguely remember adopted both older (kinda not officially) and baby sizhui (officially) and I remember also kinda vaguely know but I can't remember if it was Jingyi or older sizhui dying I remember jingyi and older sizhui got married before the death, there is a memorable scene of older sizhui and wangji flying together and sizhui was telling him about his life as a kid with wangji please if you can help it would be appreciated also I do know it's not 'Tragedy is not the end' by Hobbsy3 thank you!!! @lotus-cloudbunny

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[ahavaa-things]

thinking my pervert thoughts about zhanchengxian and how much of an absolute train wreck I think it would be (positive)

nah, these fuckers a) generally speaking do not communicate particularly well, b) have some real resentment built up that I do not think sex would necessarily fix, c) are not, even post-canon, really capable of being rational about each other.

considering a messy weird situationship where everyone is a little meaner than canon and coming into it from a slightly warped perspective:

wwx: yeah, Jiang Cheng has some feelings about the core thing and still might feel kind of abandoned (maybe? the most important thing is to never have an excruciating discussion about Our Feelings ever again). so to fix that, whenever we see him, we do this fun roleplay where I remind him he’s always going to belong to me and he gets treated like a toy. it’s hot and he’s into it; this is fine and should continue indefinitely.

lwj: fully seething but unable to deny my husband anything. if sect leader jiang is willing to do penance about the burial siege on his back that’s marginally acceptable (does it turn me on a little? yeah but in the way where I'm pissed off about it) the important thing is that he gets he’s not allowed to say no to anything wwx wants

Jc: as always wwx wants to have his cake and eat it too. fucking pathetic that I’m going along with it. fucking humiliating that lan wangji sees this shit. everything’s all in the past until wwx gets a hardon. it’s unfortunate that fucking the two of them is a politically smart move, particularly since I, like everyone else, have Moved On and am capable of handling this like a detached adult.

you know. hopefully you see the vision.

[rottingcheng]

Has there been much discussion about the likelihood that MXY!WWX, who canonically forgets a bunch of his past due to trauma, blocked out his feelings for Jiang Cheng as well? We see multiple times, like when he carelessly mentions not wanting to return to a tattered Lotus Pier that MXY!WWX's mind does not want to revisit places/memories that bring back trauma, so why should JC be any different?

WWX gives off the most rampant avoidant energy whenever it comes to Jiang Cheng post time-skip like he's trying to escape a bruise.

Anyway the only reason I bring this up is because of how delicious it would be for Wei WuXian post-canon to suddenly have that mental block lifted and all those feelings towards his shidi flooding right back.

[qiu-yan]

canon jiang cheng

making my own post instead of reblogging someone else's with my hater commentary. praise my three atoms of emotional maturity.

salt below the cut. the post is long so i can concentrate all my salt into one location.

i just saw a post complaining about jc stans trying to take over the "canon jiang cheng" tag. personally, i do think us stans should just let the haters have that one, since picking fights is just going to cause more trouble for everyone. but also.

there is exactly one reason why this is happening, and it isn't just that jc stans are annoying.

in all honesty, the jiang cheng frequently discussed in the "canon jiang cheng" tag is as much of a fandom invention as the jiang cheng conjured by the most ardent of jc stannies. i have seen the level of analysis typical of the "canon jiang cheng tag," and - to speak frankly - the frequenters of this tag are every bit as prone to wild invention and free flights of fancy as the rest of the fandom. when posts claiming that jiang cheng sold an unwilling jiang yanli to the jins, or that jiang cheng regularly whips jin ling, or that jiang cheng directly killed wei wuxian, are all tagged with "canon jiang cheng," it is safe for anyone with a brain to say that we have in fact moved quite a distance away from canon.

so when these people casually declare their equally fanonical interpretation of a character to be the one and only "canon," from the perspective of the rest of us, all we see is condescension and an entirely undeserved arrogance.

is it any wonder the jc stans are annoyed?

actually, let's take a closer look at what's going on here. even if the "canon jiang cheng" tag was intended at any point in its conception to actually be used for discussion of jiang cheng's canon traits - this is no longer the case. in practice, the "canon jiang cheng" tag is used for jiang cheng bashing. if i went into the "canon jiang cheng" tag today, do you think i'd find posts about jiang cheng's canon height or canon love of dogs, or even screenshots of the mdzs text wherein jiang cheng is mentioned? no. every post i found would be about how jiang cheng sucks - and with wildly varying levels of fidelity to canon, to boot.

if every post in your tag is about how a character sucks, and adherence to canon in said posts is optional, then what you have is not a canon analysis tag. what you have is a character bashing tag.

and yet. if you ask these people why they're tagging their character-bashing as "canon," all you get is wide-eyed innocence. this isn't character bashing, they insist, this is just analysis of his canon traits. this is even when the post in question contradicts canon directly. and when posts that are canonically accurate but not jiang-cheng-negative appear in the "canon jiang cheng" tag? these users so kindly move to correct this behavior: don't you know, they politely inform the offender, that this tag is for canon behavior only? your post about how jiang cheng might have had a shred of love in his heart at one point in his life is not canon.

they want at once the exclusivity and full-agreement nature of a character-bashing tag, and also the veneer of superiority lent by the label "canon." and by claiming the label of "canon" for themselves only, they aim not just to lend credibility to their own opinions, but also to automatically discredit everyone that disagrees with them. they want sole ownership over "canon" - and to declare every other jiang cheng analysis out there, so long as it isn't sufficiently jiang-cheng-negative, as mere fandom invention.

guys. come on. what is this? you do realize that if you tell someone that they can't tag their analysis with "canon," then you're basically telling them that you think they're wrong, don't you? every time you say "oh this post is about canon jiang cheng," you do realize that what you're actually saying is "my analysis is based in canon, while yours is fandom invention" - that what you're actually saying is "i'm right and you're wrong," don't you? if so, own up to it! if you're going to disagree with someone, disagree with them openly! none of this simpering "uwu canon jiang cheng actually" bullshit - say with your full chest that you think that everyone else's takes are shit, and why!

if you're going to be a hater, just own up to it and call yourself a hater! don't be a coward. don't be so condescending and disingenuous with your cowardice, either. why are you emulating the cardboard bullshit version of jin guangyao peddled only by the most deluded of jiggy antis? 

and - for once - recognize that if it is acceptable for you behave in a certain way towards others, then it is also acceptable for others to behave in the same way towards you. if you're going to tag your blatantly canon-violating bullshit with "canon jiang cheng," then you do not have the right to get mad when jc stannies tag their equally canon-violating bullshit with "canon jiang cheng" as well.

[black-n-white-wings]

I think the worst Jiang Cheng did has actually been "survive"? You know? All the others of his generation have died or wallowed in a cave and then fucked off with no obligation? And here he is, broken and angry and so alone, and yet he did fucking great!! A great uncle (when wwx was a one time wine uncle and lsz calls lwj "hanguang-jun"... So family-coded...), an astonishing sect leader, an unavoidable figure of politics in the Jianghu.

I agree there is some sort of discourse shift trying to say "yeah he sucks but I love him" maybe just because it's really tiresome to have to defend ourselves for a fictional purple martial grape, yk? I'm here to have a good time, and mainly I had a terrible ride in this fandom.

He did not kill the Wen remnants on his own, some of those Wen were cultivators, he never said "kill the child" when he saw lsz.

Killing demonic cultivators is the cultivators' JOB!!! So yeah, kill them, they're crazy evils that literally kill people and raise the dead and desecrate the dead (which is a... No-no in Chinese culture?).

He's rude but lwj is way more rude and yet people praise lwj and curse jc for it. Protagonist plot armour, I guess, but at least jc thinks about something else than wwx. (Ljy is rude, too, I love him. It's just lwj I don't).

And to go back to the main post (thank you for finding word of god) we actually never really saw him fight in the books or the series post-resurrection. When wwx attacks him in the ancestral hall, jc is still affected by minshan's spell, so not a really good baseline. Jgy KNOWS he has to cheat to win, that's how confident he is about LOSING one on one against jc. The antis are always trying to find things in the book like it's the bible and they can't even read. And it's really sad.

It's okay to like the protagonists for the romance. It's okay not to focus on some elements you're not interested into. But if you are doing exactly what mxtx is trying to critic in her book, and do it under tags we are certain to find, then you are not enjoying the book. You're enjoying antagonising people for the heck of it and pretending to be smart about it. Learn to read. Learn to think for yourself and not follow the narrative we have read a million times already. Spice it up!! Invent new theories!! JC is actually three raccoons in purple robes! They're evil your honour!!

That's getting too long again. I can't make it short and sweet I'm sorry 😭 anyway I love Jiang Cheng and he doesn't suck. He is a victim. He was doomed to survive. Love was there and it simply was not enough. He has the *grace* to let his loved ones go when he would rather have all of them with him at all times. Because he loves so much he can't force them to love him back. And he is a survivor of child abuse, torture, I suspect s.a. (but i don't want people to attack me so... Maybe another post if people want to hear my take on that?), a fucking war when he was a child! He was alone, wwx NOT WITH HIM while he was talked over by adults and pushed and manipulated, and then he had to bear the responsibility for the acts of wwx who had abandoned him! To clean after wwx! Sure wwx had good reasons and the heart in the right place, Yada yada yada, but the FACTS remain the same. And still he persisted. He endured. Anger kept him alive, kept his sect safe, kept his nephew safe and thriving. He's angry because what else does he have? What has not been taken from him?

Just saw someone claim that WWX gave JC a core that was 80 years more advanced???? And that he did nothing with it because no one was scared of him???? WTF do they mean ‘80 years more advanced’ I’ve never heard that claim spouted anywhere before. And that no one was scared of him? Aren’t a lot of anti’s main talking points that he cows everyone by being a mean, torturing, serial killer that murders everyone he so much as dislikes? They’re trying to claim he’s mediocre, but they’re way of claiming it is just so illogical and stupid.

Dude wtf I just saw the same one and thought "The hell are they on about?" XD

What part of the "If you're going to insult someone make sure it's not ever this guy" sound like "he's mediocre"? 😂

What part of "he was searching for wwx on the battlefield, while carrying his struggling sect on his shoulders" sounds like "he didn't do anything with it"?

"80 year old advanced golden core" More like 8 year old advanced reading comprehension 😂

[mxtxfanatic]

I already explained the history of friction between different readers on Jiang Cheng’s character, but now I’d like to address the “neutral,” “idk what’s happening but why can’t we just get alone?” readers: mdzs may be a book with raunchy sex, comedic moments, an over-the-top drama queen, a group of cute ducklings, a cast of goofy-at-times adults, etc etc, but at the end of the day, this is a book about how a bunch of grown ass adults, victimized by a system of normalized injustice that orphaned most of them as children, got together to defend that very same system of injustice. If you are in this fandom and consider any discussion on how every adult save for like 3 actively aided and abetted the repeated massacres of innocent people that happens throughout the story to be “anti” or “negative” behavior, then why are you here? If you are upset that people enjoyed reading about a canonical villain and decided to discuss him and his canonical villain role in a public forum meant for that discussion, then why are you in the public forum???

Not everyone enjoyed the book because they wanted to get in on what roles this new set of characters would fill in a coffee shop au. Not everyone read the book just to figure out what new ship they wanted to obsess over. Some of us read the book because we liked the heavy themes, and we want to discuss said themes with others. The tags should be for everyone, regardless of whether or not you like a character in a “positive way,” but if you don’t want to see certain content that is relevant to the book, it is up to you to filter it out or form your own space. You don’t get to police fandom as a “positive vibes only!” space, especially not ones founded around a source material dealing with themes of war and genocide. Ain’t shit positive about that! This isn’t The Care Bears!

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

I first started mdzs with the manhua and then watched the donghua and then finally read the novel,

I always had a strong dislike jc's character especially after he refused to help the wens, yeah that was the moment I decided he is just an asshole and just overall there was nothing special about him but after I read the novel I absolutely hated him cuz this guy is an abuser as well amd his attitude is so much worse.

Falling into fanon misinterpretations is common, I would admit I did fall for some of them too but after I read the novel I realized how wrong the they were and that it couldn't be further from the truth and that is when I started searching for good meta blogs and thankfully found blogs that actually have great and accurate analysis cuz there are a lot of people that just spread misinterpretations more than analyzing the actual media.

I think most people don't pay much attention to the text and they are too attached to the fanon to register canon, in their mind jc is the best jiujiu and lxc an angel and wwx the oblivious guy and they don't wanna and refuse to look further than that, also people might not know what a good media analysis looks like and that's why they end up following those popular blogs that fuel these fanons and bad readings even more.

And this is why paying attention, understanding media and finding trustworthy sources is important cuz if you lack common understanding of text and ongoing themes of the story it is easy to fall for fanon this is why pay attention to fandom discussions usually the only that actually give good reasoning and provide text evidence and not just some made up headcanon, cuz it helps you learn more as well.

Alright rant over

[factsilike]

Let's get this straight.

If I discuss JC's canon negative traits from the novel, that is not 'character bashing' nor does it make me a JC 'anti'.

It's not my fault his canon traits are mostly negative. It is simply how he is in the book.

[mifeng-xiaojie]

This is the last I’ll say about the “canon Jiang Cheng” wankery.

It has been a spoken and agreed upon rule of Tumblr fandom before there was a Jiang Cheng to love or hate that you DO NOT put your hate in the character and ship tags and that you do tag it with “anti-character name”. The reason is because fans utilize those tags to find and share art, fiction, and discussions about their favorite characters. The tags have always been meant to be a space to bring people together positively.

It’s long been understood that anyone who puts hate in the tag either doesn’t know any better or they just want to start shit. I’m late to the fandom, but my impression of the JC antis and this whole tag mess is that you all just want to start shit and be miserable because honestly, the majority of you all contribute more hate and negativity to fandom than you do anything else. You talk about JC fans being delusional. Ok, and? Even if they are, they’re having fun! They’re making friends with each other and bonding over their love for this character, which is how fandom is supposed to be. You’re worried about this so called delusion because why again?

Ya’ll knew that naming the tag “canon” would be contentious. Different people have different interpretations of canon, but rather than accept that in good faith, you’d rather accuse people of lying, making things up, and being delusional. Do you feel better doing that?

It’s a fictional story we’re all supposed to be having fun with. Yall make shit not fun. I hesitated for a long time to even engage with this fandom because of the amount of hate and vitriol I see antis spewing on a day to day basis. I just recently watched as antis on that confession blog appeared to have gotten their face chewed off enough by JC stans so then they tried it with the JGY stans and proceeded to get steamed rolled again. Yall do this shit to yourselves and cry victim. Stop it. Get some help. Get jobs. Mow the lawn. Do something productive. This ain’t it.

[jiangchengneedstherapy]

Ah that's what you meant, yea he didn't have Wei Wuxian use DC like that, I agree he wasn't a WRH 2.0 About the Lotus Pier rebuilding fanons, they're so far spread even I myself believed lot of them for a long time haha specially with how much WWX was portrayed like that, but yea around the time WWX was in the sect, Yunmeng Jiang was flourishing with his support and there was even a scene of the new jiang disciples bowing respectfully to WWX as he dismissed them so he was involved as much as his duty of head disciple called for. Yea Jiang Cheng was handling the duties of being a Sect Leader (like paperwork and Sect Leader only responsibilities) but he was not without support during that time or on his own

A reminder that canon Jiang Cheng

Loves his lil nephew dearly

Will only marry someone who treats his nephew right

Loves dogs 🐕

Is willing to keep his equally important sacrifice a secret and never held it over Wei Wuxian in any way when he could have

Was willing to let Wei Wuxian move on in the end

Built up Lotus Pier back to its former glory pretty much on his own from the tender age of 18+

Could have used Wei Wuxian's DC to his own advantage and made the Jiang Sect an absolute powerhouse like the Wens, but never did

But yeah, he's totally the main, evil step mom villain, am I right, guys? 🤪🤡🤡

[runespoor7]

I mean obviously I’m am going to ask you about chengxian, for the ask meme

What made you ship it?

It was the most interesting relationship in the book. I'm a sucker for childhood friends with broken promises, for grief, for misunderstandings over loyalty and love, and for relationships whose resolution in canon is bittersweet.

It still took some time and effort before I started really shipping it. I was theoretically open to shipping it but I hadn't yet read fics that really sold me on it (this was in 2019, I think). Then as an experiment I put a WWX-inspired character in the setting I was GMing for the JC and JYL NPC stand-ins to have him to play off of. Turned out I did ship them.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

😬

*wide, helpless, expansive gesture*

It's never simple with them. It's always fraught. They love one another but they also resent one another. Hunting demonic cultivators is about WWX still maybe being alive. Maybe JC can bring himself to kill WWX this time, or maybe he can find a way to bring WWX back home and forgive him. WWX promises to be with JC but he ends up promising that he won't stay ("like my father served your father") but he didn't mean it with an end. the mess that is the fraughtness of WWX's liminal space when it comes to his social rank.

love hurts, what hurts is love.

the fact that the one 'leading' is WWX, not JC, going against the accepted social order. (tbh, if that wasn't the case, I probably wouldn't be into the ship.) it paints such a picture of WWX being so charismatic, and JC being so taken with him, that JC falls into being WWX's sidekick. no wonder YZY was awful about it.

JC keeping Chenqing like a mad dog and keeping Lotus Pier WWX-safe. I. god. JC rating WWX's attention >>>>>>>>>>>>> JC's self-respect every time, in every way. Amazing.

it's incredible to me how WWX asks JYL about love in a scene framed in a manner to make it subtextually point in the direction of LWJ (it's mdzs; the canon pair in mdzs is wgxn; there are no - explicit - love triangles in mdzs; and yet even WWX's original crush on LWJ is, uh. informed by JC and how WWX is with JC and the fact that LWJ is New and Not The Son of WWX's Benefactor. this is normal.), where it's apparent that WWX is scared of being in love because it changes how you act, it's a limit, it's a cage, you're limiting yourself for someone else - and then WWX does something for JC that is everything he was scared of.

and it does ruin him! it's terrible! so his romance with LWJ is everything his feelings for JC weren't. He's not the one doing the protecting. LWJ doesn't question him. There are no expectations of anything, no discussions of the future, no thoughts of society. LWJ is just such a comfort, just a good thing WWX gets because he wants it. Also LWJ isn't emotionally taxing af (this is a big one). (WWX kinda ends up YZY-ing himself at the end of the book but I'm not thinking about that.)

WWX's utter toxicity toward JC. not a iota of respect for either JC or JC's boundaries to be found, except when convenient for WWX.

they both really, really believe that WWX is better than JC in every way. it's very cool

look. i'm a simple person. arrogant genius jerk/grumpy dutiful tsundere otp.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I love the joke that chengxian isn't incest but both of them wish it were, but I think the only time one of them wished they were brothers was JC when he decided to sacrifice himself for WWX and he was lying in bed making morbid jokes. At least sacrificing yourself for your brother who is the better cultivator and can lead the sect would be simple. Forgivable. Good.

I also think they might grow to think of one another as brothers at some point post-canon, that's a sort of reconciliation that might happen, but to me it's key that during canon they don't know what they are to one another, they just know they're scarily, terrifyingly important, and there's no word for what they are to one another.

JC refused shixiong-shidi (in a shocking reversal of their normal dynamic, I think he forgot he did that and spent roughly two decades feeling insecure and weird that WWX doesn't call him shidi) and they can be nothing else, socially speaking. The love that dare not speak its name, if you would. And at that same time post-canon they could also decide that what they're to each other is that WWX used to be in love with JC, and maybe JC still is, and they're not brothers. Or maybe both! The point is, the definition of their relationship is uncharted waters and they never thought of each other as 'brothers' (much less called each other that).

2) WWX is incredibly bitter and resentful of giving his core to JC and that colors everything he thinks and says about JC afterwards, including after he's returned to life. Basically, he gave, and gave, and gave, and felt there was no gratitude, and he's unable to live the life he wanted, unable to reap the promises life made him, and JC isn't any more agreeable or tractable than before (less so, in fact!). It's not fair.