#for discussing canon jc

[mxtxfanatic]

I don't want to put this in the tags, since people are just having fun, but I figure you probably won't mind hearing my anon-complaints. I'm getting super annoyed by the recent influx of Jiang Chang related SVSSS crossover posts (and fics to a lesser extent).

Seeing JC interact with the PIDW world could be incredibly interesting, but the posts I keep spotting are all about the woobiefied fanon version of JC. JC and YQY are not all that much alike (JC isn't remotely loyal to WWX), and I don't think he'd get along well with LQG. The JC and SJ dynamic actually does seem like it would be fun to read, but with how toxic they both are it would be 'fun' more in the 'watching a car crash in slow motion' sort of way, rather then anything wholesome.

Anyway, mini-rant over!

Fanon: Everyone in svsss would just love Jiang Cheng!

Canon: Shen Qingqiu would take one look at Jiang Cheng and just assume that the natural state of PIDW requires a canon fodder villain to be killed. Assuming he was some previously no-named lackey, after the second time Jiang Cheng attacks Luo Binghe, Shen Qingqiu wouldn’t try to save him, anymore. Nobody else would have even cared to try.

Anyways, I know exactly what posts you’re talking about and exactly which blog keeps making them. Unfortunately for me, tumblr is trying this new thing out called “if the blog you blocked is a jc stan, the block doesn’t count,” so fuck people “having fun” in the tags. If I can’t have fun with canon on my own dash, no one is allowed to have fun with fanon on it, either 😤

[androgynouscomputerthing]

sorry but i will be bitter

please stop putting headcanons and ship art and such into the canon jiang cheng tag. its genuinely making it difficult to actually find good posts and discussions about his character.

and no, somebody saying that fanon jc is wildly different from canon jc is not being an anti, its just pointing out the obvious

i think that — and according to some people i am going to sound like an anti — the fanon jc stans need to cool it. you’re not “reclaiming the tag” you’re annoying. this tag was made to not disrupt Fanon discussion. it is here to depict and discuss Canon jiang cheng.

recognising that other people don’t hold the same opinion as you is a part of maturing

[ilynpilled]

The polls get instantly more vicious once the fandom makes it about ships (the tags from Brienne stans in the Cersei poll were vile)

oh didnt even check lmfao i think im blocked by most of jc nation on here tho

edit: honestly i get the j/b/c thing is very romance oriented but people really have blindspots about all three of them bc they can never separate that shit from them. I think all three have a lot going on as individuals. this is the reason i often dont really agree with the popular opinions of a lot of the fandom that focuses on these characters. like i care about jaime the most first and foremost and i dont want his endgame to revolve completely around either of them lol. like i dont want jc double death bc i think it doesn’t really work with the text and the foreshadowing atp and it would be very anticlimactic for jaime but same with jb married endgame like id hate that shit too. i also just dislike the general approach to romance where people think it is only rich and well written if it has “married with kids” endgame.

[thotfrnk]

jc and lxc, despite having limited interactions within the canon, its still a nice ship, they're quite similar in regards to some of their traumas and betrayals and the idea of two of them healing together post-canon warms my heart so much

[mxtxfanatic]

Well, I don’t think the closure of the overall story is that “everyone just moves on with their lives.” That’s the closure to Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng’s personal drama. The closure to the story is that because Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji (and Wen Ning, and Mianmian) fought against the corruption of the cultivation world in their own ways, there is now a new generation of kids who don’t have to suffer what they suffered at that age nor fall into the same prejudices and mob mentality that led to multiple clan massacres.

The reason why you believe that canon Jiang Cheng could achieve a redemption is because you brush aside is canonical, willing actions under the unsupported hope that “maybe he didn’t mean it.” To say that Jiang Cheng “didn’t want” to kill the Wen remnants is to ignore that he wanted them sent back to the labor camp when he went to the Burial Mounds to demand Wei Wuxian’s return, is to ignore that he hates Wen Ning because he sees Wen Ning as just “another Wen dog” who destroyed Lotus Pier, is to ignore that in the 13 years that Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning were “dead,” Jiang Cheng still attacked civilians with the surname Wen even though they were unrelated to the QishanWen entirely. The Jiang were already restored to their former glory by the time the war ended. Jiang Cheng did everything that he did because he is a hateful person who holds grudges but ignores debts, the complete antithesis to Wei Wuxian’s character, not because he was coerced into it.

And this is the problem with a lot of fix-it fics: they don’t actually acknowledge canon Jiang Cheng because they all write the version of Jiang Cheng that you just describe, which only exists in the fandom’s imagination. They start from this fanon version of him where he “didn’t mean” to kill the Wen and he “didn’t mean” to hurt Wei Wuxian but he was just so sad and hurt and he had no choice, don’t you see? They essentially erase the essence of Jiang Cheng’s character to make the option of his redemption probable, but in whitewashing his character, they tend to drag down other characters, like making Wei Wuxian “equally” as guilty and pathetic as their fanon Jiang Cheng is. So instead of being a fix-it to canon, they’ve just rearranged everyone’s personalities, invented a new problem, and had that new problem be fixed instead. Nothing about canon was fixed because the fic was never about fixing the canon, it was about creating an “and they all lived happily ever after” ending. Also, shanastoryteller is why we’re plagued with “straight” Wei Wuxian who likes Wen Qing, so I could never take her fics seriously.

In my opinion, redemption for Jiang Cheng's character is impossible. It’s odd how most discussions about his potential redemption always solely centre around his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

While it’s true that Jiang Cheng wronged Wei Wuxian, his biggest crime isn’t his treatment of Wei Wuxian—it’s the massacre of the Wen Remnants. His redemption shouldn’t just be centred around his relationship with Wei Wuxian, it should focus on the Wen Remnants, who were brutally slaughtered under the siege he led.

Making peace with Wei Wuxian doesn’t erase the much larger moral crime of leading a massacre against innocent people. True redemption should be about confronting the full extent of one’s wrongdoings, and in Jiang Cheng’s case, that means dealing with the massacre, not just his wrongdoings against Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng never reflects on the massacre, expresses any regret for the innocent lives lost, or takes responsibility. For Jiang Cheng to even have a chance at redemption, he’d need to show real remorse for what he did to the Wen Remnants—and honestly, I just don’t see that ever happening.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Dec 19th

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1. Hello! I'm looking for a fic post canon in which the Lan elders get tired of LWJ and WWX going like rabbits so they give a teaching position to WWX, it sounds a lot tame than how it sounds hahaha

WWX teaches arrays and uses creative ways to make time to be with LWJ. I remember a lot of original lan juniors, all with names and Sizhui appears a little bit later. I think the story actually starts from Jin Ling POV because he's angry the Lan juniors become too good at escaping traps

Thanks a lot for your help :) @lauyuu

FOUND! 🔒 A More Practical Approach by Elhana (T, 9k, WangXian, Canon Compliant, Teacher WWX, Humour, POV Multiple, Implied Sexual Content, when you just want to get frisky with your hot husband but your in-laws crave their peace and quiet, huge conflict of interest right there, WWX is resourceful, wuxia magic shenanigans, Post-Canon)

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2. Hello! Thank you all for the work y'all do <3

I've been looking for a fic called negative: shoot or smth similar with model wwx and lwj studying... smth to do with business law, iirc. wwx ends up modelling to make money but wants to study toxicology and I think there's a recurring OC by the name Tang Liwei who's a photographer. I've been trying to find the fic but I cannot seem to and idk if it's been set to private or deleted or if it's just me. Any help would be appreciated <3 @rue-cimon

2 appears to have been deleted. I clicked the link from an old subscription email and it came up error 404

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3. Hi, I'm sorry for bothering you with this request. Do you know of a wangxian fic were towards the climax of the story Jin Guangshan tries to assault Qin Su, but she knows that he's her father and stabs him. The entire fic wangxian and company know something is up with the Jin sect and are trying to prove it. Also, I think the wen sect still exists after the war and some of them are demonic cultivators who are working with Jin Guangshan? And I think earlier in the fic Jin Guangshan uses a demonic cultivation array to mess with the sect leaders durring a cultivation conference?

I thought I bookmarked it, but I went through them and wasn't able to find it. Thank you for listening.

FOUND? Back To The River (So Learn To Swim) by kalany (M, 83k, CSSR/WCZ/JFM/YZY, XuanLi, WangXian, Fix-it fic, self-reincarnation, autotransmigration, time travel adjacent Pregnancy, access to appropriate obstetrics care, Childbirth, Unplanned Pregnancy, Polyamory, Polygamy, survival sex, unwanted pregnancy ending in termination, on-page death of a child, Murder of a Child, non-explicit discussion of sexual assault, Sexual Coercion, brief glimpse of sexual assault, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon-Typical Sexism, background asexual JC, bisexual JFM, bisexual YZY, Bisexual CSSR, bisexual WCZ, Sect Heir JYLLZ) sounds like 'Back to the River (So Learn To Swim) by kalany. It's a time travel fic where Yu Ziyuan goes back in time.

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4. Hi i'm looking for a fic set post cloud recesses study arc. Wei wuxian returned to gusu to for individual study but he and Lan wanji haven't really spoken since he returned. This is all background for the fic. The main plot is centered around a nighthunt in which Lan Xichen takes wwx, lwj, jc and i think su she. They are their to restore a barrier of sorts that surround the town. The head of the town is a creep and is realised to be the reason for all the resentment trapped within the town. His new target was wei ying. Wei ying gets nose bleeds and has a ghastly encounter with a spirit while in the bath. I dont think it's finished but the last chapter ended with wei ying and lan wanji fending off the mayor guy- he falls off a railing i think. Idk why I didnt bookmark it but I can't find it for the life of me. I'm pretty sure I read it on ao3 but idk if it was posted anywhere else. Not sure if you'll be able to find it but thanks so much for your help!

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5. Hello:

First THANK YOU for finding fics its awesome that you help us that way;

Now there are 2 fics that I cannot remember well but

A- WY brings A-Juan to work he’s an office tech put him in a file cabinet LZ comes in and finds A-Juan then takes him to walk around while WY works and LXC and LQR buy stuff for him something like Gucci, Prada or another $$ stuff and a crib and more …

I know is pretty vague specially when there is a similar fic

B- this one has a lost A-Juan from LZ office and is found with WY antagonizing JC by making A-Juan press a button to mess with JC computer, WY send msg to come collect child because he is running out of red vines not sure

Thank you @bkpmystinen

5B)

FOUND? The Little Lost Piece... by Liebing (T, 4k, WangXian, Cute, LWJ dad, Business man, WWX is the IT support, LWJ is upper management, Fluff, Domestic Fluff, Soft, child goes missing, Mild Peril, Happy Ending, Found Family, Modern AU)

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6. I am looking for a fic I read when I first got into this fandom. I cant remember much about it but Wei Wuxian is dead and Lan Wangji is angry at everyone who played a part (including his brother and uncle). What I remember the most is that he refuses to wear the Lan colors and starts wearing black and red, I think as both a synbel of love and grief, Everyone does eventual learn that Wei Wuxian was innocent and Lan Xichen tried to apologies to his brother but Wangji ignores him (I am pretty sure). Thank you @alyholmesz

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7. Could you help me find this fic? It’s one where lan wangji traveled back in time to during the sunshot campaign shortly After reviving his lashes as punishment and going to the burial mounds to find Wei wuxian but finding LAN shizui instead. Everyone around at the camp is confused on why lan wangji is acting strange and where the small child with him came from. @djalexdask

FOUND? Lan Yuan’s War by BurningTea (G, 196k, WIP, LWJ & LSZ, LXC & LWJ, WangXian, LWJ & WQ, Time Travel, Dad LWJ, Sunshot Campaign, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Eventual Happy Ending, Rumours, Lots of rumours about LWJ, several people worry about LWJ, CQL Verse, Mental Health Issues, LWJ is very much not okay, Time travel has consequences, Sick LWJ)

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8. Hi! This is for fic finder. I dont remember much. It was canon divergent post war au i think. I dont know when but WWX and LWJ figure out their relationship and then gets enganged. JWY act as chaperone and bring a stick so everytime WWX and LWJ gets to close to each other, he use the stick to separate them and says that they need to get away to each other minimum as far as the stick that he hold. I think in one scene he give his stick to his diciple to chaperone them but that diciple is failed at the task. Thats all i can remember. Thanks @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

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9. Hi! So appreciate your recs!

Im looking for a fic where Wei Ying and Lan Zhan decide to dual cultivate before killing the Xuanwu of Slaughter and WY gets pregnant but nobody believes them.

I know that Wei Ying still gets thrown in the burial mounds and thinks he lost the baby but then he ends up having the baby (a-Yuan) and they have his 30 day event in a tent (I think) still around nightless city?

I know that he loses his core but because of the baby gets a new core too

FOUND! Impermanence, Transience, Permanence by Best Bepsy (BepsyGray) (E, 39k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Sunshot Campaign, Unplanned Pregnancy, Mpreg, Gore, Medical Procedures, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, Assumed Miscarriage, Explicit Sexual Content, Cesarean Section, Childbirth, Golden Core Reveal, Impermanencia, Transitoriedad, Permanencia By Best Bepsy (BepsyGray) by VicoMejia73 (VicoMejia733))

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10. Hello! I’m trying to find a fic where Madam Yu and JFM lived and Madam Yu was specifically raising WWX to be a sort of bodyguard to Jiang Yanli and to follow her to Koi Tower after her marriage. And WWX felt a lot of guilt over it because he had fallen in love with LWJ and thus also wanted to get married and move to Cloud Recesses.

The specific thing I remember was a conversation between Madam Yu and JFM about WWX moving to Koi Toawer after Yanli’s marriage and another conversation with WWX, JYL, and JC talking about what WWX wants in life.

Both conversations happened at the end of the fix though, so I can’t recall the rest of the the plot, though presumably it was a Sunshot Campaign retelling.

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11. Hi! I’m trying to find a fic where Wei Wuxian has an OnlyFans and Lan Wangji finds out about it. Lan Wangji agonized over how to tell Wei Wuxian he has found it (I believe they are friends in the fic). Eventually they talk and Lan Wangji ends up helping with the OnlyFans (camera and lighting type help). Eventually Jin Zixun finds the account and sends it to WWX’s family members. That is all I remember. It was a multi chapter fic and it wasn’t very explicit at all. Thank you for all your help!! @kjwaikiki

FOUND? For a Good Time, Call by ScarlettStorm (E, 170k, WangXian, Modern AU, Getting Together, Pining, Porn, like in the writing and also as a plot point, onlyfans au, repressed LWJ, sex worker WWX, Minor Angst, major shenanigans, Background ChengQing, background NieLan, background XuanLi, Nonbinary NHS)

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12. Hello! I have lost a fic and would love help finding it again - it was a long form modern au where Wangji was kidnapped as a child and trained as a fighter for the Wens. He was kept in a cage where all he had was a picture book and his stuffed rabbit and he had a collar they put him in that he was terrified to remove cause they trained him to be super violent without it. Wei Ying played piano or guitar and it made Wangji come to him for help. Help me wangxianficrecs mods, you’re my only hope! @the-vaguely-shifting-void

FOUND? Across the street to another life by danegen (M, 99k, WangXian, Modern AU, unleashed au Family Fluff, Set in America, Hurt/Comfort, Past Child Abuse, Addiction, Crime, Amnesia, Ableist, Language, another fridged mother, POV Alternating, past wwx/ofc, past wwx/omc, Medium parent YZY, A-Yuan is wwx’s biological son, Musicians, Happy Ending)

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13. Hi! I'm looking for a wangxian fic but I don't remember it too well. Basically I remember that Cangse Sanren was still alive and she and Wei Wuxian were rogue cultivators. And Lan Wangji meets Wei Wuxian for the first during a night hunt I think. I'm pretty sure Wei Wuxian is bathing and then later everyone initially mistakes Wei Wuxian for a girl because he's used to wearing female clothes because of the way his mom raised him.

Thanks for helping!!

FOUND? 🧡 Resplendence by FrozenMarVel ( E, 187k, WIP, WangXian, CS Lives, Rouge cultivator WWX, Crossdressing, Canon Divergence, Fix-It of sorts, Fluff, Explicit smut)

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14. Hello! I'm looking for a fic where wangxian are sent back in time. They begin to change things for the better but as time passes lwjs core begins to weaken until he almost dies. The only other thing I really remember is that lwj was upset/uncomfortable around lxc and didn't really trust him. Thank you and hope you can help me find it!

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15. Hi, I really need help on that one fic in which WWX time travels temporarily to his Yiling Laozu self, back in the archery contest with the Jins, older WWX seduces LWJ and then they have sex in the forest, which was supposed to be the mystery kiss (WWX with his canon CNC kink and roping young LWJ with it) Younger WWX was aware and he was also there inside his body, but can feel everything. Later, older WWX leaves and gives advice that “If you want him to go harder, beg for him to have mercy on you” and “if you really want him to stop, go still”

Younger WWX pleaded for mercy (and he wanted it harder) and later get caught by Madam Jin, Jiang Yanli, and Jin Zixuan. His reputation was down the drain but at least he got the love of his life.

Like, he went from rapist to a smitten lover for WY.

Please please please, I knew I saved it but I can't find it anymore on my bookmarks.

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16. Hi so this is what I remember I think it's an alternate universe canon divergence wwx did not get adopted by Jiang and he's a prostitute he was given as a present to lwj but the person who gave it to lwj was kind of like mocking him and the person who was giving wwx to lwj was the horrible Jin cousin I can never remember his name because I can't be bothered because he's really irrelevant and it was a podfic as well I think it was a cold read or maybe not oh and wwx is not a cultivator and from what I remember there was only one chapter because the original work is still ongoing @constancebloodstone

FOUND? Gifted by Deastar (E, 7k, WIP, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Courtesan WWX, Sex Work, but not between the main characters, as in canon the real villain is sex work stigm, Supportive LQR, 🔒 [Podfic of] Gifted by AuntieIroh)

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17. I am going crazy trying to find a fic based off of a screenshot I have. It's one where Lwj is an author and hgj and yll are the characters in his book. The scene is wwx screaming that the characters don't end up together but they do in the last line of the book. @abijo2024-blog

Hey, thank you for looking for the fic I messaged about, sadly not the right fic but it's so close. I wonder if the fic was taken down that has the quote from the in fic novel "come back with me. Come home. Home. I thought you'd never ask" I have a screenshot of the fic scene where wwx is yelling at Lwj and Lwj shows him the last page with that quote.

NOT FOUND! when we’re full of stories to be told by fakeplasticlily (M, 45k, WangXian, Modern AU, journalist wwx, Writer LWJ, Kid Fic, Fluff and Angst, Childhood Friends, Pining, Mutual Pining, Mild Smut)

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18. Hello, thank you for your hard work! Could you please help with finding a fic that's about soulmates, where if I'm not mistaken you only know who they are when they die, and no one alse can see the soulmate's ghost. What I remember most clearly was that apart from WangXian, LXC and NMJ were also soulmates and LXC banished JGY from Cloud Recess because upon NMJ's death he learned of JGY's treachery. WWX helped calm NMJ who was full of resentment. Thank you so much!

FOUND? The Cruelty of Fate by Procrastination_Sensation (T, 9k, WangXian, Major Character Death, Canonical Character Death, Soulmates, Angst with a Happy Ending, Minor LXC/NMJ)

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19. Hi! I've been looking for a fic where I remember wei ying living with his parents in a nomad community(?), I don't remember why but qinghen-jun kidnaps him to give as a gift to lan zhan, I think it was his birthday(?) and therefore lives in the harem, that's what I clearly remember, in one chapter lan zhan gifts(?) or allows wei ying to go riding with him and that's all I know, it was the royalty type

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20. hello I’m looking for a fic read a while ago, I don’t remember much aside from it being an omegaverse, lan wangji an alpha and Wei Wuxi an an omega. It was set during their time in cloud recesses and I think Wei wuxian presented, and lan wangji went feral or his instincts made his go crazy and hover over him to protect him. Sorry it’s not much but it’s all I remember. @djalexdask

FOUND? Yiling Laozu Reincarnated: The Alpha's Soulmate by Luna_Klebsiella (Not Rated, 39k, WIP, WangXian, Reincarnation, Time Travel Fix-It, Fix-It of Sorts, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Alpha LXC, Alpha JC, Omega JYL, A/B/O Dynamics, Omega Verse, No Golden Core Transfer, Top LWJ/Bottom WWX, Smut, Anal Sex, Mpreg)

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[rottingcheng]

Has there been much discussion about the likelihood that MXY!WWX, who canonically forgets a bunch of his past due to trauma, blocked out his feelings for Jiang Cheng as well? We see multiple times, like when he carelessly mentions not wanting to return to a tattered Lotus Pier that MXY!WWX's mind does not want to revisit places/memories that bring back trauma, so why should JC be any different?

WWX gives off the most rampant avoidant energy whenever it comes to Jiang Cheng post time-skip like he's trying to escape a bruise.

Anyway the only reason I bring this up is because of how delicious it would be for Wei WuXian post-canon to suddenly have that mental block lifted and all those feelings towards his shidi flooding right back.

[qiu-yan]

canon jiang cheng

making my own post instead of reblogging someone else's with my hater commentary. praise my three atoms of emotional maturity.

salt below the cut. the post is long so i can concentrate all my salt into one location.

i just saw a post complaining about jc stans trying to take over the "canon jiang cheng" tag. personally, i do think us stans should just let the haters have that one, since picking fights is just going to cause more trouble for everyone. but also.

there is exactly one reason why this is happening, and it isn't just that jc stans are annoying.

in all honesty, the jiang cheng frequently discussed in the "canon jiang cheng" tag is as much of a fandom invention as the jiang cheng conjured by the most ardent of jc stannies. i have seen the level of analysis typical of the "canon jiang cheng tag," and - to speak frankly - the frequenters of this tag are every bit as prone to wild invention and free flights of fancy as the rest of the fandom. when posts claiming that jiang cheng sold an unwilling jiang yanli to the jins, or that jiang cheng regularly whips jin ling, or that jiang cheng directly killed wei wuxian, are all tagged with "canon jiang cheng," it is safe for anyone with a brain to say that we have in fact moved quite a distance away from canon.

so when these people casually declare their equally fanonical interpretation of a character to be the one and only "canon," from the perspective of the rest of us, all we see is condescension and an entirely undeserved arrogance.

is it any wonder the jc stans are annoyed?

actually, let's take a closer look at what's going on here. even if the "canon jiang cheng" tag was intended at any point in its conception to actually be used for discussion of jiang cheng's canon traits - this is no longer the case. in practice, the "canon jiang cheng" tag is used for jiang cheng bashing. if i went into the "canon jiang cheng" tag today, do you think i'd find posts about jiang cheng's canon height or canon love of dogs, or even screenshots of the mdzs text wherein jiang cheng is mentioned? no. every post i found would be about how jiang cheng sucks - and with wildly varying levels of fidelity to canon, to boot.

if every post in your tag is about how a character sucks, and adherence to canon in said posts is optional, then what you have is not a canon analysis tag. what you have is a character bashing tag.

and yet. if you ask these people why they're tagging their character-bashing as "canon," all you get is wide-eyed innocence. this isn't character bashing, they insist, this is just analysis of his canon traits. this is even when the post in question contradicts canon directly. and when posts that are canonically accurate but not jiang-cheng-negative appear in the "canon jiang cheng" tag? these users so kindly move to correct this behavior: don't you know, they politely inform the offender, that this tag is for canon behavior only? your post about how jiang cheng might have had a shred of love in his heart at one point in his life is not canon.

they want at once the exclusivity and full-agreement nature of a character-bashing tag, and also the veneer of superiority lent by the label "canon." and by claiming the label of "canon" for themselves only, they aim not just to lend credibility to their own opinions, but also to automatically discredit everyone that disagrees with them. they want sole ownership over "canon" - and to declare every other jiang cheng analysis out there, so long as it isn't sufficiently jiang-cheng-negative, as mere fandom invention.

guys. come on. what is this? you do realize that if you tell someone that they can't tag their analysis with "canon," then you're basically telling them that you think they're wrong, don't you? every time you say "oh this post is about canon jiang cheng," you do realize that what you're actually saying is "my analysis is based in canon, while yours is fandom invention" - that what you're actually saying is "i'm right and you're wrong," don't you? if so, own up to it! if you're going to disagree with someone, disagree with them openly! none of this simpering "uwu canon jiang cheng actually" bullshit - say with your full chest that you think that everyone else's takes are shit, and why!

if you're going to be a hater, just own up to it and call yourself a hater! don't be a coward. don't be so condescending and disingenuous with your cowardice, either. why are you emulating the cardboard bullshit version of jin guangyao peddled only by the most deluded of jiggy antis? 

and - for once - recognize that if it is acceptable for you behave in a certain way towards others, then it is also acceptable for others to behave in the same way towards you. if you're going to tag your blatantly canon-violating bullshit with "canon jiang cheng," then you do not have the right to get mad when jc stannies tag their equally canon-violating bullshit with "canon jiang cheng" as well.

[black-n-white-wings]

I think the worst Jiang Cheng did has actually been "survive"? You know? All the others of his generation have died or wallowed in a cave and then fucked off with no obligation? And here he is, broken and angry and so alone, and yet he did fucking great!! A great uncle (when wwx was a one time wine uncle and lsz calls lwj "hanguang-jun"... So family-coded...), an astonishing sect leader, an unavoidable figure of politics in the Jianghu.

I agree there is some sort of discourse shift trying to say "yeah he sucks but I love him" maybe just because it's really tiresome to have to defend ourselves for a fictional purple martial grape, yk? I'm here to have a good time, and mainly I had a terrible ride in this fandom.

He did not kill the Wen remnants on his own, some of those Wen were cultivators, he never said "kill the child" when he saw lsz.

Killing demonic cultivators is the cultivators' JOB!!! So yeah, kill them, they're crazy evils that literally kill people and raise the dead and desecrate the dead (which is a... No-no in Chinese culture?).

He's rude but lwj is way more rude and yet people praise lwj and curse jc for it. Protagonist plot armour, I guess, but at least jc thinks about something else than wwx. (Ljy is rude, too, I love him. It's just lwj I don't).

And to go back to the main post (thank you for finding word of god) we actually never really saw him fight in the books or the series post-resurrection. When wwx attacks him in the ancestral hall, jc is still affected by minshan's spell, so not a really good baseline. Jgy KNOWS he has to cheat to win, that's how confident he is about LOSING one on one against jc. The antis are always trying to find things in the book like it's the bible and they can't even read. And it's really sad.

It's okay to like the protagonists for the romance. It's okay not to focus on some elements you're not interested into. But if you are doing exactly what mxtx is trying to critic in her book, and do it under tags we are certain to find, then you are not enjoying the book. You're enjoying antagonising people for the heck of it and pretending to be smart about it. Learn to read. Learn to think for yourself and not follow the narrative we have read a million times already. Spice it up!! Invent new theories!! JC is actually three raccoons in purple robes! They're evil your honour!!

That's getting too long again. I can't make it short and sweet I'm sorry 😭 anyway I love Jiang Cheng and he doesn't suck. He is a victim. He was doomed to survive. Love was there and it simply was not enough. He has the *grace* to let his loved ones go when he would rather have all of them with him at all times. Because he loves so much he can't force them to love him back. And he is a survivor of child abuse, torture, I suspect s.a. (but i don't want people to attack me so... Maybe another post if people want to hear my take on that?), a fucking war when he was a child! He was alone, wwx NOT WITH HIM while he was talked over by adults and pushed and manipulated, and then he had to bear the responsibility for the acts of wwx who had abandoned him! To clean after wwx! Sure wwx had good reasons and the heart in the right place, Yada yada yada, but the FACTS remain the same. And still he persisted. He endured. Anger kept him alive, kept his sect safe, kept his nephew safe and thriving. He's angry because what else does he have? What has not been taken from him?

Just saw someone claim that WWX gave JC a core that was 80 years more advanced???? And that he did nothing with it because no one was scared of him???? WTF do they mean ‘80 years more advanced’ I’ve never heard that claim spouted anywhere before. And that no one was scared of him? Aren’t a lot of anti’s main talking points that he cows everyone by being a mean, torturing, serial killer that murders everyone he so much as dislikes? They’re trying to claim he’s mediocre, but they’re way of claiming it is just so illogical and stupid.

Dude wtf I just saw the same one and thought "The hell are they on about?" XD

What part of the "If you're going to insult someone make sure it's not ever this guy" sound like "he's mediocre"? 😂

What part of "he was searching for wwx on the battlefield, while carrying his struggling sect on his shoulders" sounds like "he didn't do anything with it"?

"80 year old advanced golden core" More like 8 year old advanced reading comprehension 😂

[lavender-phoenix-flames]

I first started mdzs with the manhua and then watched the donghua and then finally read the novel,

I always had a strong dislike jc's character especially after he refused to help the wens, yeah that was the moment I decided he is just an asshole and just overall there was nothing special about him but after I read the novel I absolutely hated him cuz this guy is an abuser as well amd his attitude is so much worse.

Falling into fanon misinterpretations is common, I would admit I did fall for some of them too but after I read the novel I realized how wrong the they were and that it couldn't be further from the truth and that is when I started searching for good meta blogs and thankfully found blogs that actually have great and accurate analysis cuz there are a lot of people that just spread misinterpretations more than analyzing the actual media.

I think most people don't pay much attention to the text and they are too attached to the fanon to register canon, in their mind jc is the best jiujiu and lxc an angel and wwx the oblivious guy and they don't wanna and refuse to look further than that, also people might not know what a good media analysis looks like and that's why they end up following those popular blogs that fuel these fanons and bad readings even more.

And this is why paying attention, understanding media and finding trustworthy sources is important cuz if you lack common understanding of text and ongoing themes of the story it is easy to fall for fanon this is why pay attention to fandom discussions usually the only that actually give good reasoning and provide text evidence and not just some made up headcanon, cuz it helps you learn more as well.

Alright rant over

[mxtxfanatic]

I already explained the history of friction between different readers on Jiang Cheng’s character, but now I’d like to address the “neutral,” “idk what’s happening but why can’t we just get alone?” readers: mdzs may be a book with raunchy sex, comedic moments, an over-the-top drama queen, a group of cute ducklings, a cast of goofy-at-times adults, etc etc, but at the end of the day, this is a book about how a bunch of grown ass adults, victimized by a system of normalized injustice that orphaned most of them as children, got together to defend that very same system of injustice. If you are in this fandom and consider any discussion on how every adult save for like 3 actively aided and abetted the repeated massacres of innocent people that happens throughout the story to be “anti” or “negative” behavior, then why are you here? If you are upset that people enjoyed reading about a canonical villain and decided to discuss him and his canonical villain role in a public forum meant for that discussion, then why are you in the public forum???

Not everyone enjoyed the book because they wanted to get in on what roles this new set of characters would fill in a coffee shop au. Not everyone read the book just to figure out what new ship they wanted to obsess over. Some of us read the book because we liked the heavy themes, and we want to discuss said themes with others. The tags should be for everyone, regardless of whether or not you like a character in a “positive way,” but if you don’t want to see certain content that is relevant to the book, it is up to you to filter it out or form your own space. You don’t get to police fandom as a “positive vibes only!” space, especially not ones founded around a source material dealing with themes of war and genocide. Ain’t shit positive about that! This isn’t The Care Bears!

[factsilike]

Let's get this straight.

If I discuss JC's canon negative traits from the novel, that is not 'character bashing' nor does it make me a JC 'anti'.

It's not my fault his canon traits are mostly negative. It is simply how he is in the book.

[mifeng-xiaojie]

This is the last I’ll say about the “canon Jiang Cheng” wankery.

It has been a spoken and agreed upon rule of Tumblr fandom before there was a Jiang Cheng to love or hate that you DO NOT put your hate in the character and ship tags and that you do tag it with “anti-character name”. The reason is because fans utilize those tags to find and share art, fiction, and discussions about their favorite characters. The tags have always been meant to be a space to bring people together positively.

It’s long been understood that anyone who puts hate in the tag either doesn’t know any better or they just want to start shit. I’m late to the fandom, but my impression of the JC antis and this whole tag mess is that you all just want to start shit and be miserable because honestly, the majority of you all contribute more hate and negativity to fandom than you do anything else. You talk about JC fans being delusional. Ok, and? Even if they are, they’re having fun! They’re making friends with each other and bonding over their love for this character, which is how fandom is supposed to be. You’re worried about this so called delusion because why again?

Ya’ll knew that naming the tag “canon” would be contentious. Different people have different interpretations of canon, but rather than accept that in good faith, you’d rather accuse people of lying, making things up, and being delusional. Do you feel better doing that?

It’s a fictional story we’re all supposed to be having fun with. Yall make shit not fun. I hesitated for a long time to even engage with this fandom because of the amount of hate and vitriol I see antis spewing on a day to day basis. I just recently watched as antis on that confession blog appeared to have gotten their face chewed off enough by JC stans so then they tried it with the JGY stans and proceeded to get steamed rolled again. Yall do this shit to yourselves and cry victim. Stop it. Get some help. Get jobs. Mow the lawn. Do something productive. This ain’t it.

[runespoor7]

I mean obviously I’m am going to ask you about chengxian, for the ask meme

What made you ship it?

It was the most interesting relationship in the book. I'm a sucker for childhood friends with broken promises, for grief, for misunderstandings over loyalty and love, and for relationships whose resolution in canon is bittersweet.

It still took some time and effort before I started really shipping it. I was theoretically open to shipping it but I hadn't yet read fics that really sold me on it (this was in 2019, I think). Then as an experiment I put a WWX-inspired character in the setting I was GMing for the JC and JYL NPC stand-ins to have him to play off of. Turned out I did ship them.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

😬

*wide, helpless, expansive gesture*

It's never simple with them. It's always fraught. They love one another but they also resent one another. Hunting demonic cultivators is about WWX still maybe being alive. Maybe JC can bring himself to kill WWX this time, or maybe he can find a way to bring WWX back home and forgive him. WWX promises to be with JC but he ends up promising that he won't stay ("like my father served your father") but he didn't mean it with an end. the mess that is the fraughtness of WWX's liminal space when it comes to his social rank.

love hurts, what hurts is love.

the fact that the one 'leading' is WWX, not JC, going against the accepted social order. (tbh, if that wasn't the case, I probably wouldn't be into the ship.) it paints such a picture of WWX being so charismatic, and JC being so taken with him, that JC falls into being WWX's sidekick. no wonder YZY was awful about it.

JC keeping Chenqing like a mad dog and keeping Lotus Pier WWX-safe. I. god. JC rating WWX's attention >>>>>>>>>>>>> JC's self-respect every time, in every way. Amazing.

it's incredible to me how WWX asks JYL about love in a scene framed in a manner to make it subtextually point in the direction of LWJ (it's mdzs; the canon pair in mdzs is wgxn; there are no - explicit - love triangles in mdzs; and yet even WWX's original crush on LWJ is, uh. informed by JC and how WWX is with JC and the fact that LWJ is New and Not The Son of WWX's Benefactor. this is normal.), where it's apparent that WWX is scared of being in love because it changes how you act, it's a limit, it's a cage, you're limiting yourself for someone else - and then WWX does something for JC that is everything he was scared of.

and it does ruin him! it's terrible! so his romance with LWJ is everything his feelings for JC weren't. He's not the one doing the protecting. LWJ doesn't question him. There are no expectations of anything, no discussions of the future, no thoughts of society. LWJ is just such a comfort, just a good thing WWX gets because he wants it. Also LWJ isn't emotionally taxing af (this is a big one). (WWX kinda ends up YZY-ing himself at the end of the book but I'm not thinking about that.)

WWX's utter toxicity toward JC. not a iota of respect for either JC or JC's boundaries to be found, except when convenient for WWX.

they both really, really believe that WWX is better than JC in every way. it's very cool

look. i'm a simple person. arrogant genius jerk/grumpy dutiful tsundere otp.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I love the joke that chengxian isn't incest but both of them wish it were, but I think the only time one of them wished they were brothers was JC when he decided to sacrifice himself for WWX and he was lying in bed making morbid jokes. At least sacrificing yourself for your brother who is the better cultivator and can lead the sect would be simple. Forgivable. Good.

I also think they might grow to think of one another as brothers at some point post-canon, that's a sort of reconciliation that might happen, but to me it's key that during canon they don't know what they are to one another, they just know they're scarily, terrifyingly important, and there's no word for what they are to one another.

JC refused shixiong-shidi (in a shocking reversal of their normal dynamic, I think he forgot he did that and spent roughly two decades feeling insecure and weird that WWX doesn't call him shidi) and they can be nothing else, socially speaking. The love that dare not speak its name, if you would. And at that same time post-canon they could also decide that what they're to each other is that WWX used to be in love with JC, and maybe JC still is, and they're not brothers. Or maybe both! The point is, the definition of their relationship is uncharted waters and they never thought of each other as 'brothers' (much less called each other that).

2) WWX is incredibly bitter and resentful of giving his core to JC and that colors everything he thinks and says about JC afterwards, including after he's returned to life. Basically, he gave, and gave, and gave, and felt there was no gratitude, and he's unable to live the life he wanted, unable to reap the promises life made him, and JC isn't any more agreeable or tractable than before (less so, in fact!). It's not fair.

[jiangchengneedstherapy]

Ah that's what you meant, yea he didn't have Wei Wuxian use DC like that, I agree he wasn't a WRH 2.0 About the Lotus Pier rebuilding fanons, they're so far spread even I myself believed lot of them for a long time haha specially with how much WWX was portrayed like that, but yea around the time WWX was in the sect, Yunmeng Jiang was flourishing with his support and there was even a scene of the new jiang disciples bowing respectfully to WWX as he dismissed them so he was involved as much as his duty of head disciple called for. Yea Jiang Cheng was handling the duties of being a Sect Leader (like paperwork and Sect Leader only responsibilities) but he was not without support during that time or on his own

A reminder that canon Jiang Cheng

Loves his lil nephew dearly

Will only marry someone who treats his nephew right

Loves dogs 🐕

Is willing to keep his equally important sacrifice a secret and never held it over Wei Wuxian in any way when he could have

Was willing to let Wei Wuxian move on in the end

Built up Lotus Pier back to its former glory pretty much on his own from the tender age of 18+

Could have used Wei Wuxian's DC to his own advantage and made the Jiang Sect an absolute powerhouse like the Wens, but never did

But yeah, he's totally the main, evil step mom villain, am I right, guys? 🤪🤡🤡

[lgbtlunaverse]

A slightly unhinged case for jin guangyao knowing about the core transfer while WWX was still alive

Ok. SO. In chapter 101, during guangyin temple, Jin Guangyao clearly knows about the golden core transfer. He uses it to bring Jiang Cheng off-kilter and stab him and simultaneously reveals to wwx that jc himself now knows about the golden core transfer.

I've always wondered exactly when he figured it out. The most obvious explanation is that he pieced it together after hearing about Jiang Cheng asking everyone to unsheathe suibian (also? jgy? how the fuck do you know that? You were already going to/at Guanyin temple at this point! Did you just have people listen in on rumours from Yunmeng and report back to you for that?? Did you tell your spy network where you were going? My whole kingdom for a retelling of this arc from the pov of these random jin disciples seeing their sect leader start spiralling. He's diggin up random tombs? Fleeing the country? And threatening the heir's life?? What was random Jin cultivator #6 thinking of this before Nie Mingjue turned him into minced meat?)

BUT.

The first time I read that line I was like "oh so he's known for a WHILE." I mean, the line "I've always found it peculiar [that wwx never took his sword anywhere]" does indicate he's been thinking about this for a while, but it doesn't have to mean he knew back then. So I absolutely can't say with certainty that my instinct was right. But I DO have some decent canon backing for how he might have potentially figured things out as early as before Wei Wuxian's death. Specifically, after the discussion scene that takens place when wei wuxian does his thing with the wens and dissapears.

Cause, see, Wen Chao would definitely have bragged about Wen Zhuliu crushing Jiang Cheng's core to his father. He killed the current sect leader, and then permanently disabled the only heir. He did it! the Jiang are gone! I bet he was very loud about it until, a few weeks later, Jiang Cheng suddenly strolls up to the battlefield, with Zidian on his finger, cultivation very much intact, looking for Wei Wuxian.

That must've been fucking baffling if you were Wen Chao and/or Wen Zhuliu and/or any other cultivator who was there and definitely saw Jiang Cheng's core get crushed. They must have assumed something went wrong, or he faked having his core destroyed, but we've never heard of something like that happening before, and they tortured him for hours! It wasn't a quick batle where Wen Zhuliu must have missed in haste, he would've noticed!

Now, by the time Meng yao arrives, wen zhuliu and wen chao are both long dead, but that kind of thing would at least still be a source of gossip among the other Wen. The only time the core melting hand ever failed!

It might be something that, say... a very careful spy with a perfect memory looking for information... might pick up on in his stay with the Wen, no?

So, Meng Yao has heard the rumour that sect leader Jiang got his core crushed but somehow managed to... still have a core.

Independantly of his, Wei Wuxian is being really weird and refusing to carry his sword. His primary concern there is wwx stirring shit up, he has no reason to believe these things are connected yet.

But then Wei Wuxian runs off with a bunch of Wen, and before he is cut off, Jiang Cheng tells everyone that after the siege on lotus pier, he and wei wuxian were helped by Wen Qing and Wen Ning! Jiang Cheng doesn't get to say how, which is good for jgy in this moment because he's trying to steer the conversation as such that no one gets mad at the Jin sect for all the war crimes, but even if his goal is for everyone else to forget Jiang Cheng said that, he'd remember it.

So... after the moment where jiang cheng, according to rumours that were contained to the wen, lost his core, he was helped by wen ning and wen qing, who is a really good doctor. And, in canon, had written theoretical proposals on core transfers before, just never experimented on them. Were these available for others among the Wen to read? Did jgy read them? We have no way of knowing. But if he did, he remembers them. Either way, he knows her reputation.

And Wei Wuxian disappeared right round that same moment, only to resurface with his demonic cultivation, at which point he never touched his sword again. Not even in the middle of a dangerous war. Not even when he was public enemy number one and it would do wonders for his reputation if he was seen cultivating the traditional path. When doing so would have made not just him but the 50 people he was shielding safer! if Jin guangyao was somehow in his position, he'd immediately do everything he could to counteract the narrative of beign a dangerous madman who'd left the straight path. Wei Wuxian has been in absolutely desperate situations and still refuses to pick up his sword...

The saying doesn't exist yet, but i'm sure someone like jgy, more competent than everyone around him, is intimately familair with at least the sentiment of "never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" He is helping spread the narrative of Wei Wuxian as a violent madman, sure, but does he believe it? If it makes no sense for wei wuxian, no longer a privileged young master but an outcast, to not pick up his sword again out of arrogancy, the most reliable explanation is that he... can't.

So Jiang Cheng, who got his core melted, got help from Wen Qing, an incredible doctor, after which he coud cultivate just fine but Wei Wuxian, no matter how desperate, never used traditional cultivation ever again...

Hm. interesting!

It's likely no one else in the jianghu outside of the wen even knew Jiang Cheng lost his core to begin with. And Jin Guangyao was never given wwx's excuse of Baoshan Sanren owing him a favor like Jiang Cheng was. He has all the puzzle pieces in front of him and... if anyone as gonna put them together, it'd be him.

And that's my unhinged case for why I believe Jin Guangyao knew Wei Wuxian didn't have a golden core anymore years before anyone else did. He just never told anyone, because why would he?

I think this adds a whole other level to his speech to Jiang Cheng about how everything could've worked out if he'd just trusted Wei Wuxian more and stood by his side. He saw it all play out in real time knowing there was more going on beneath the surface!

Now the really interesting question becomes: When did he figure out Jiang Cheng himself wasn't in on it? Did he piece it together immediately from remembering seeing jiang cheng berate wwx for not carrying a sword, a thing he should've known he couldn't do? Or was it not until later, maybe the fake yunmeng bros fallout, or the REAL fallout when Jiang Yanli died? Or was it still the news of Jiang Cheng going around and asking everyone to unsheathe subian that made him realize that oh my god this stupid bitch had no idea the whole time.