#but see the problem? if people can’t even see jc’s character for what it represents in the story

[mxtxfanatic]

Well, I don’t think the closure of the overall story is that “everyone just moves on with their lives.” That’s the closure to Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng’s personal drama. The closure to the story is that because Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji (and Wen Ning, and Mianmian) fought against the corruption of the cultivation world in their own ways, there is now a new generation of kids who don’t have to suffer what they suffered at that age nor fall into the same prejudices and mob mentality that led to multiple clan massacres.

The reason why you believe that canon Jiang Cheng could achieve a redemption is because you brush aside is canonical, willing actions under the unsupported hope that “maybe he didn’t mean it.” To say that Jiang Cheng “didn’t want” to kill the Wen remnants is to ignore that he wanted them sent back to the labor camp when he went to the Burial Mounds to demand Wei Wuxian’s return, is to ignore that he hates Wen Ning because he sees Wen Ning as just “another Wen dog” who destroyed Lotus Pier, is to ignore that in the 13 years that Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning were “dead,” Jiang Cheng still attacked civilians with the surname Wen even though they were unrelated to the QishanWen entirely. The Jiang were already restored to their former glory by the time the war ended. Jiang Cheng did everything that he did because he is a hateful person who holds grudges but ignores debts, the complete antithesis to Wei Wuxian’s character, not because he was coerced into it.

And this is the problem with a lot of fix-it fics: they don’t actually acknowledge canon Jiang Cheng because they all write the version of Jiang Cheng that you just describe, which only exists in the fandom’s imagination. They start from this fanon version of him where he “didn’t mean” to kill the Wen and he “didn’t mean” to hurt Wei Wuxian but he was just so sad and hurt and he had no choice, don’t you see? They essentially erase the essence of Jiang Cheng’s character to make the option of his redemption probable, but in whitewashing his character, they tend to drag down other characters, like making Wei Wuxian “equally” as guilty and pathetic as their fanon Jiang Cheng is. So instead of being a fix-it to canon, they’ve just rearranged everyone’s personalities, invented a new problem, and had that new problem be fixed instead. Nothing about canon was fixed because the fic was never about fixing the canon, it was about creating an “and they all lived happily ever after” ending. Also, shanastoryteller is why we’re plagued with “straight” Wei Wuxian who likes Wen Qing, so I could never take her fics seriously.

In my opinion, redemption for Jiang Cheng's character is impossible. It’s odd how most discussions about his potential redemption always solely centre around his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

While it’s true that Jiang Cheng wronged Wei Wuxian, his biggest crime isn’t his treatment of Wei Wuxian—it’s the massacre of the Wen Remnants. His redemption shouldn’t just be centred around his relationship with Wei Wuxian, it should focus on the Wen Remnants, who were brutally slaughtered under the siege he led.

Making peace with Wei Wuxian doesn’t erase the much larger moral crime of leading a massacre against innocent people. True redemption should be about confronting the full extent of one’s wrongdoings, and in Jiang Cheng’s case, that means dealing with the massacre, not just his wrongdoings against Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng never reflects on the massacre, expresses any regret for the innocent lives lost, or takes responsibility. For Jiang Cheng to even have a chance at redemption, he’d need to show real remorse for what he did to the Wen Remnants—and honestly, I just don’t see that ever happening.

[crossdressingdeath]

Morally grey? Who’s morally grey? MDZS is about rebelling from your status and doing the right thing and upholding justice. The fact that the JINS know that the prisoners are indeed old people and a child and spread rumors about WWX building an army is just them covering up for their conspiracy and greeds. It’s all transparent. And the whole ‘wwx was invited into the banquet’ and being ambushed by the jins... imo the jins got scot free off for this. Jins really got off so light in the novel and this novel is actually being so KIND to everyone who is being ‘WRONGED’. Yao doesn’t get permanent seclusion and still badmouth lower class people and gossips about shit as if he is some cool dude at school but nobody likes him, sect leader Ouyang who think they rightfully ‘murdered’ ‘cultivators’ but actually are bunch of old people and child. Never get why when people whine about the bad ending of everyone minus WX because if the ending is so bad I agree! It is bad because nobody ever knew Jins ambushed WWX during JL’s 100 day, JL himself doesn’t even know his father is trying to mitigate an ambush initiated by sects! It is bad sect leader Yao still sucks and he doesn’t ever get repercussions for badmouthing JGY and the rumors about WWX, but the moment JGY is rich and respected in the sect he just... bootlicks him. Shows how much where his priority lies. Nobody actually remembers that JGY did murdered a whole clan and framing it for his son’s death is just nobody is investigating this?? No one?? Alright. JYL’s so called ‘sacrifice’ being written off as ‘WWX killed your mother’ is essentially JC ignoring JYL’s love for WWX and brainwashing JL thinking his mother didn’t love him really shows

Okay, so before we get into anything specific... you realize that that’s all moral greyness, yes? The ending of MDZS is morally grey. There’s no “the bad guys all suffer their deserved punishment and the good guys live happily ever after” here; it’s not black and white like that. The end of MDZS involves things getting better, not every problem in the setting magically fixing itself.

Now, on to details. First, the Jins getting off scot-free for ambushing WWX... Everyone involved died. Literally everyone involved in that ambush is dead by the end of the story. I wouldn’t call that scot-free! And no, the sect as a whole isn’t punished for the actions of their leaders because Random Jin Cultivator #24601 isn’t guilty by association because they were run by manipulative jackasses for so long, any more than WQ was responsible for WRH’s actions! As we see with the Wen remnants, the morality of the story (the story, not the setting; important distinction) is that punishing literally everyone for the actions of the people at the top is... y’know, wrong? Outside of that the Jins seem to mostly just be petty assholes, and that’s... not a crime, it’s just annoying. The Jin sect will change now that JL is in charge, and with WWX and LWJ supporting him it’ll change for the better.

Next, Yao and Ouyang. Again, they didn’t commit any crimes? Not knowingly, anyway, they were duped by JC and JGS just like everyone else. I say once again, being a petty asshole isn’t a crime. You can’t lock someone up for being rude! Yes, they’re petty, opportunistic dickheads who ride the coattails of whoever they think will get them highest on the social ladder. So what? There will always be people like that. They aren’t going to go away just because one guy dies. You complain about Yao not being put in permanent seclusion; I ask, what did he do to deserve a punishment that seems to be reserved largely for murderers? He’s a gossipy fucker who insults the lower classes; he’s not likeable, but he’s not a criminal, either. Honestly Yao and Ouyang feel more like... representatives of the worst parts of the cultivation world, more than characters in their own. Yes, they’re selfish, petty people who mock anyone below them and kiss the boots of anyone above them, and when whipped into a frenzy by someone with greater ambition than them they can be dangerous. But MDZS... isn’t a story about solving all the problems in the world and removing anyone who isn’t a perfect pillar of morality. At the end of the day, Yao and Ouyang are at worst minor irritants; no one likes them, but they don’t deserve to be locked up for it.

As for no one remembering JGY wiping out a sect... uh, that is one of the things the sects are baying for his blood over. It’s just that the other things he did are more important in the moment. Patricide and filicide and such are... kind of a bigger deal. Treason against his sect in murdering his sect leader, too. Stuff like that. Yes, it’s a problem that the complete destruction of a sect is considered less important than the deaths of two people because they’re sect leaders and that the sects didn’t even demand proof beyond two people (at least one of whom has explicitly been paid off to testify against him) saying he’d done bad things after he’d been a good leader of the cultivation world for over a decade, but again: MDZS isn’t about solving all the problems of society. It’s about WWX and LWJ.

Basically yes, at the end of the day some people get away with horrible things because they have power and others are targeted by mobs without any solid proof of wrongdoing (which is still a problem in JGY’s case; he actually did do the things he was accused of, but the sects’ response makes it pretty clear they would’ve gone after him even if the accusations were false). And that sucks and it isn’t fair. But MDZS isn’t the sort of story where everything gets wrapped up in a neat little bow and everyone gets exactly what they deserve. If MXTX had done that it would’ve been such a cop-out. MDZS ends on a hopeful note; WWX and LWJ are happy and the next generation is shaping up to be better than the current one. In a story like this... that’s really all we can ask for.

[saberspirit]

jiang cheng character analysis essay under the cut! bc he means a Lot to me (its 5 pages im sorry)

tl;dr my thoughts on his relationship to his parents, his relationship with anger and feelings of inferiority, what zidian represents to him, his siblings (largely about what led to him and wwx falling out), and my thoughts on reconciliation between him and wei wuxian in the end.

tw!!! for child abuse and death, also warning for spoilers for the ending. 

alternatively can be read on google docs for accessibility

foreword: by writing this it is not my intention to imply this is the end all be all interpretation, or that i know more than fans of colour (especially chinese/chinese-american fans). i’m looking at his character as a white fan and through a western lens. i understand there are nuances i wont understand, but i have tried and continue to look at him w/ an educated view point and i’m always trying to continue my own self-driven education. i’m as always open to criticism and correction, although i understand it is no ones job to do so. it’s purely an interpretation from someone relating to his themes that i talk about here. thank you for reading! 

Jiang Cheng has a very complicated relationship with his parents (understatement), though different from Wei Wuxian’s complicated relationship w/ them (some overlaps being given).

It’s obvious to me that JC identifies more as his mother's son than his father's—feels he has to be because surely that’s why he feels neglected and like he’s constantly being found wanting by his father (even if Fengmian does Not mean to come across that way and isn’t a cruel man). He identifies with his mother’s anger and feeling of not being what his father truly wanted or loved and I don’t think he realized the effect she had on him with her constant comparison game—trying to measure him up because Madam Yu used him as a playing piece in her constant warring with Fengmian and instilled a sense of otherness in him and his deep-rooted feelings of inferiority and not being Good enough, not being enough in general. And yet he still deeply loves them even through all that he’s been through because of them both.

He never grew up learning how love should be in a relationship; should be from a parent to a child. The love he learned is a different type of conditional love from WWX's (WWX being that he doesn’t trust it in the first place, knowing it will leave). JC receives love and praise but knows it comes from a silent arrangement: it’s transactional. He upholds what his parents want and he gets…a form of it. Jiang Fengmian loved him in a way that you just kind of do love family, perhaps without a real reason otherwise—not pretty, but it is as it is. Madam Yu loved him in a way one loves a possession: she saw too much of Jiang Fengmian in him and JC was a reminder of how unhappy she was and how much her husband didn’t seem to care about her or what she gave him. (This isn’t to downplay Yanli's role in JC’s life: I think she was truly the only one to show him unconditional love in a way that he understood and recognized but it's unfortunately different from siblings and fell on half-deaf ears when all JC really wanted was his father’s approval).

Madam Yu was (afaik) stated to not be physically abusive (aside from the whipping when the Wens came from Wei Wuxian), but she was one-hundred percent verbally and emotionally abusive (for example, punishing WWX w/ isolation from the family w/ seclusion, or in general just how she talked to JC and WWX). She broke those two boys and it's something that can’t be undone…and Zidian represents that trauma, abuse, and expectation and JC’s anger and resentment that was the product of it. It’s literally lightning in a whip form; able to bind without harm, but it’s primarily used to hurt; it can reveal a true form; control over it is only relinquished to one’s family and loved ones.

JC doesn’t just lash out verbally at Wei Wuxian when they meet in his second life, he literally does. It’s his anger under his skin like static, driving him forward and being unable to rest because he’s constantly looking for closure he can’t have. He resents how his parents and Wei Wuxian made him feel but it’s also the only thing he has of them, and he clings to that (and therefore Zidian). It’s the last thing, bar Lotus Pier, that he has of his family anymore, and he wields it like a weapon…because ultimately it’s the only thing he's known for a very long time. Anger is an easy emotion. He wears it well. It was an emotion he learned from his mother, and he is his mother’s son.

As a side note for Zidian: Jin Ling refusing to take it from JC in the Burial Mounds to me was very much about not wanting a goodbye. He's a stubborn kid—JC mirrored what his mother did to him in handing off Zidian before certain death, and I think Jin Ling realized "take care of Zidian" meant "because I can’t anymore". JC wanted Jin Ling to stay safe and keep a hold on their family's legacy, but Jin Ling refused it and stepped forward to protect JC—JL is tired of goodbyes and afraid of losing more people, but also that stubborn streak to protect his family back. He went into the fray himself even if it’s not what JC was asking him to do (but then to JC’s chagrin the kid never really does do what he asks usually, Jin Ling has a good head on his shoulders and he’s as stubborn and quick to anger as his jiujiu but he’s also as incredibly loyal and caring). And I think it's a good vehicle to show that JL is breaking that cycle for them both.

Back to Jiang Cheng and anger and his siblings though. Yanli is all about showing affection in her words and actions (ie. meal sharing, peeling the lotus seeds, etc). WWX struggles to show it in forthright actions, let alone verbalize it (he’s truly bad at it) so while WWX does love his brother and shows it in actions like giving him his golden core…it’s not something JC picks up on well, or at all because he doesn’t even get told about the core until the Guanyin Temple. Jiang Cheng is someone who needs verbalized confirmation and very obvious action. But then to be fair, JC is also not good at verbalizing his love and care (he and Wei Wuxian are two peas in a pod w/ this one). It’s often behind barbed wire because 1) that’s how it was shown to him and 2) because it’s safer and easier to hide behind anger. He really does use it as a shield to protect his real feelings because he’s used to his feelings being trivial and being thrown in his face, and is used to loss. It’s a buffer.

This leads to a problem: Wei Wuxian does love him unconditionally, but I don’t think JC knows that. When he’s faced with the golden core surgery after everything, it’s definitely obvious, but it’s so twisted up in being hidden from him, in his own fears and feelings of failure and reliance that it’s soured. And he struggles to reach out and be frank with his own worries.

And this leads and lends to the severity of their falling out (not the only cause, but a big player in it).

He deeply loves his brother, but it's also entrenched in his bitterness and fears. If it was initially hard for him to verbalize because of those issues (on top of being a teenager/young adult and his feelings of inferiority irt WWX), he’s now in the current day steeped in sixteen years of loss/grief/trauma. Of unresolved tension between the two of them because WWX never told anyone anything—even if that’s just how he is, nothing personal towards JC except maybe that it’s his little brother, his shidi, and he doesn’t want to put a burden on those he loves—and JC tried time and time again to believe him and in him.

The problem was that his trust got thrown in his face time and time again. His older ‘peers’ (clan leaders) mocked and insulted him to his face for his naivety, pointed out that what WWX was doing was an insult to JC and their family, that WWX’s actions disrespected him and that he should do something about it. WWX’s actions themselves alongside him never letting JC in on anything further isolated them and put walls between them. This sewed the seed of the idea for JC that maybe he was naive. That WWX couldn’t uphold his duty and promises to JC and their family while also upkeeping his own personal code of ethics. (Not that it helped that Jiang Cheng also started lashing out at Wei Wuxian in minor ways for not having Suibian, but he didn’t exactly know why, to his credit).

His trust was him trying to care for WWX through all they’ve lost, but he’s also under the immense pressure of leading and rebuilding his home while also being looked down upon for his inexperience and ties to the man the cultivation world loathes.

Jiang Cheng believed WWX when he said he'd help him, wanted him to and expected him to. That’s his big brother and ultimately family comes first, so it was out of the question that WXX wouldn’t uphold that duty to him. Jiang Cheng is barely an adult as Sect Leader and was still a teen when they lost everything, so of course he wanted to rely on and believe Wei Wuxian when he said he'd help. JC doesn’t usually rely on others—I’d wager he hates relying on WWX especially as a callback to the inferiority complex—but he lets WWX in when they have the “Twin Prides” talk, lets him in when he promises JC to help him rebuild their home…and then WWX lets him down several times.

Post Burial Mounds there are signs that JC notices, if not consciously then subconsciously, that something is off with his brother (the demonic cultivation, the flute, the lack of Suibian, his weakness when pushed, etc), little things that he noted but didn’t have the time during a War to think too deeply on. He’s more relieved to just have him back where he can see him, happy that his brother can help them. Jiang Cheng gives him his vote of confidence in his abilities, in him, because he never thought of WWX or his methods badly (having been a fan until it became a symbol of losing Wei Wuxian to Something Else). Even if he had thought something of it, did have a concern, they don’t easily talk to each other now.

That much is obvious when after various meetings post the Sunshot Campaign as WWX is struggling with his temperament and resentful energy, after WWX saves the Wen remnants from the Jin Clan, and Jiang Cheng shows up at the Burial Mounds. He still believes in Wei Wuxian, still is bound to help him, and wants to help him. He’s willing to sacrifice the Wens for his brother. His actions and words are not pretty, but by god is he desperate. Jiang Cheng wants to save him and hides it with harsh words because once again he’s not good at being forthright with his feelings. He’s at his wits’ end, he’s barely 20, and suddenly he's losing Wei Wuxian too. It’s not about them being Wens because at this point he’s aware they’re helpless—it’s because it’s WWX and he’s supposed to make the right decision and be competent. It’s freshly post-war and he’s scared: his big brother is leaving and he feels powerless and he Hates that. Once again feels like he’s not good enough. Not good enough to save WWX, not good enough to lead, and he’s under intense scrutiny. He tells WWX as much that at this point he can’t help, and it hurts him to not be able to. Jiang Cheng wants Wei Wuxian to help him, help him. It’s an admittance wrapped in hurt and hurtful words, and WWX throws it in his face because he can’t let him in.

It’s not meant in any malicious way. Wei Wuxian is also traumatized, scared and hurting and dealing with the changes demonic cultivation is causing within him. But this is a key moment when JC for once verbalizes his fears and WWX tells him, ‘good, you don’t need to worry, I don’t have anything to do with you from now on’. (And of course, WWX is doing this to protect JC, but this response is what JC is afraid of).

So we have two times that JC has tried really hard in his own ways to let WWX in. To rely on him and be honest with him and WWX ends up…breaking his promises and leaving him and their family behind. And to me, that explains his actions when the last time they speak before he dies (that we’re shown anyways). WWX is sitting down with Jiang Cheng and Yanli. JC is the one that set up them being able to meet him, the one that reached out even after they fought to make his defecting from the Sect look convincing. He was the one that told Yanli that WWX should be the one to give a courtesy name to her child.

And then WWX brings Wen Ning. Yanli is open to Wen Ning sitting in and enjoying their family tradition, but JC can't understand why. Why WWX chose these people over his own family. He resents it. When he says "you might not be able to come back, to your family" I can imagine how much it destroys him to hear WWX say "but the people I’m returning to are also my family". Because what does that make them, WWX’s siblings; what does that make the promises and the years spent raised together, the duty he had to them first. Wei Wuxian might return to the Burial Mounds, but Jiang Cheng has to return to an empty Lotus Pier. The ghosts of his parents and ghosts of memories of his siblings he’s never getting back (because Yanli will be in Jinlin Tai after her upcoming wedding).

Repeatedly over and over Jiang Cheng reaches out, but time and time again it’s like WWX is telling him he’s not enough: not enough for WWX to rely on, not enough to protect him, not enough for him to want to return to, not enough to be family.

Then the cultivation world comes for WWX and his amulet. Yanli is killed, as far as JC can tell, because of the mess WWX made, and once again he’s in the dark about everything. Then WWX dies and rumours swirl that JC killed him, and maybe he did, maybe he is his brother’s killer even if Wei Wuxian would call it a misunderstanding. He’s left alone with an orphaned nephew in Lotus Pier with his entire family, bar an infant, dead.

So Jiang Cheng spends the next sixteen years without answers, with WWX having reinforced his insecurities and fears that stemmed from the abuse he'd suffered during childhood and then died. Yanli died when she never should’ve been in danger in the first place, seemingly because of Wei Wuxian. And he's so angry. He lashes out at memories and reminders, lashes out at anyone who chooses that same path that WWX chose over his family.

By the time Wei Wuxian’s come back from the dead and JC knows it’s him, WWX is still deflecting, still hiding still not telling him the truth. The fact that WWX comes back at all hurts purely as a fresh opening of the old wound, but the fact that he doesn’t come to find JC, that once again JC and his family isn’t a priority and once again is second best (this time to Lan Wangji)?

He doesn’t kill his brother. JC sits him down in a room and tries to talk but old hurts rile up and he reaches for anger again. WWX isn’t forthright and it makes it worse, neither of them are good at communicating: too many things unsaid, that can’t be said, too many misunderstandings and neither of them knowing how to talk about it. JC has Fairy there and it’s a minor act of revenge. JC uses what he knows is WWX’s weakness to intimidate and immobilize him, but it doesn’t help either of them actually talk.

Reconciliation is going to require WWX being able to talk to him without deflecting and JC getting angry so easily. But by this point, he’s given WWX a lot of chances and it’s why I think they could and would easily post-canon. Jiang Cheng's starting to come to an understanding that WWX did and still does care about him. He didn’t give him his golden core for no reason, and JC starts to understand why WWX did it for him and that he knew JC well enough to hide it in the first place.

He started to reach that conclusion shortly after Wen Ning told him—oh the pain of it having been WWX's chosen little brother figure—and Jiang Cheng had gone around asking people to unsheathe Suibian. It's why he brought Chenqing to the temple in the first place.

I think it speaks to his maturity that he decided at that moment he couldn’t say what he wanted to tell WWX in the end. I think he knew neither of them was ready, but I also think it speaks of how much he misses and trusts WWX to have let him go for now…I think he knows they will meet again as long as they both live, and that they'll be better for having waited. After some time to think, digest, they’ll be ready to be family again and all that entails.

[bluerosesburnblue]

Okay, actually, screw it. I am tagging this. People need to realize that that line doesn’t make Charlie canonically ace, they’re just pushing their own interpretation and then trying to act like it’s more “correct” than all other interpretations. Congrats, fandom. You all instantly “Did That.” Glad to see my lack of faith was well founded

Eughh I really hope the Hogwarts Mystery fandom doesn’t Do That again when the First Date quest drops. Drove me nuts the first time it happened and I’d rather people not get so pushy about their interpretation of that one line that, no, does not canonize anything

So here’s the thing:

“Dragons are all I care about. Who has time for dating when there are so many breeds of dragons to study?”

is not confirmation that Charlie is aromantic. Can it be interpreted that way? Yes, absolutely. And I’m not going to begrudge people who are a fan of that headcanon their right to interpret it that way. But it’s not confirmation of canon. The lines right before it are:

“We don’t care who your crush is.”

“Really? Why not? Our other friends seem to want to know.”

The “dragons are all I care about” isn’t necessarily “I don’t care about romance at all and never will.” In the context of who MC’s crush is, that line can be taken to mean “I’m not nosy enough to pry into who you’re in love with, because I have more important things such as my studies.” Yes, he expresses that he’s not interested in dating at the moment, but so does who I’m assuming is probably Tonks but might be Bill, both of whom we know end up in heterosexual marriages:

“Dating doesn’t interest me now, either. Perhaps someday. But I like doing my own thing.”

So, what, are they all aro now because they don’t want to date at the moment? People are allowed to have priorities and just because something is more important than dating or they’re not comfortable with being in a romantic situation at the moment doesn’t mean they don’t feel romantic attraction at all. Literally the only thing Charlie’s line proves is that he values his dragon studies more than romance. Not that he doesn’t care about romance at all. He doesn’t even say he doesn’t want to date, just that he doesn’t have enough time to do it and everything else he wants to do. It’s not a priority, but that doesn’t mean the desire doesn’t exist

He doesn’t even state he’s not attracted to anyone. Attraction ≠ dating. You can decide you don’t want to date anyone because you don’t feel like you could give the relationship the effort it deserves, even if you’re in love with someone. You can decide you don’t want to date because getting your dream job is more urgent than dating. You can decide you don’t want to date because of family issues. Heck, you might even do it for religious reasons. There’s a million reasons why you can decide you don’t want to date, despite the attraction. What is the assumption here? That people have to be in a relationship to prove their sexuality? That if you’re not in an active relationship then you must not be interested in sex at all? Life isn’t that black and white

I mean, they’re teens for crying out loud. They’re still figuring out where their boundaries are! They are literally in the age of experimenting. I didn’t give a shit about romance as a teen. It’s still not a priority for me! But just because it’s not The Most Important Thing to me doesn’t mean I’m not ever going to be interested in a romantic relationship with someone. Am I suddenly not allowed to see my own life experiences reflected in Charlie because it’s not “inclusive” enough?

Am I disappointed that none of the HP-canon characters are options? Yes. I think it’s silly that the writers feel the need to go out of their way to deny players the ability to date the three non-original canon characters, but hell. I don’t know what JC’s contract is like. Maybe they were forbidden from allowing it by Warner Brothers or JK Rowling or whoever they got the rights to use the franchise from. But you know what I’m more disappointed about?

The fact that there’s (seemingly) no option to have the MC just... not date someone. The only way it seems you can do that is to just not play the timed quest, which SUCKS for my completionist ass. I want the option to not date, like Charlie and Tonks, but also not have a giant “INCOMPLETE” in my events tab

And it’s not because I see my MC as aro/ace or that I’m aro/ace, though I’m certain that people who do or are would appreciate the option as well. Dating just feels out of character for the character I’m playing. Some people don’t care about Jacob, but I’ve made my character so obsessed with finding him and so unable to focus on anything else until that’s done that there’s no way she’d be dating anyone. She literally has something more important than romance at the moment and she won’t be able to focus on any romantic relationship until the Jacob situation’s resolved

Look, I’m not saying all of this to be like “you can’t headcanon Charlie as aro/ace/whatever!” That’s bullshit. You can headcanon whatever you want and the beauty of fiction is that we can have conflicting headcanons about things that make the experience richer for us. This isn’t a STOP HAVING FUN post

I’m only bringing this up because when Charlie was introduced and a bunch of people thought that he and MC were cute together, you couldn’t go two minutes without someone else going “HE’S CANONICALLY ACE AND THIS IS ACE ERASURE.” People were goddamned aggressive about their interpretation of JK’s intentionally vague interview answer from years ago. And already I see people in the tags declaring that these lines make Charlie canonically aro and I’m terrified that that shit’s going to start up again because people just can’t learn to respect someone else’s headcanon and move on. The people posting about it have been cordial so far, but I do not trust this fandom to stay that way for long

[EDIT] And it looks like I was right not to

If you do that - if you go on anyone’s post and say “um actually you can’t headcanon that” then you’re the asshole. That goes for both sides. If you go on an aro/ace Charlie post and go “But he’s so cute with MC!” then you’re just as much of an asshole as someone who goes onto a Charlie/MC post and says “Um, but Charlie’s aro/ace.” Both are awful and I don’t want that fighting to start up again because of one line

If you’re going around making posts in the tags like “It’s CANON” then you’re also being an ass. The line’s ambiguous at best. Stop trying to force your interpretation. It’s not canon, just a headcanon. So long as multiple, equally valid interpretations of that line exist, Charlie is not canonically aro or ace. Not to mention that the quest isn’t even out yet and none of the people I’ve seen posting that line/interpretation in the tags are tagging their spoilers. Seriously, have some online etiquette

[EDIT] Look, I’ve seen the arguments. It doesn’t make the interpretation of that line any more canonical. And the only actual arguments I’ve even seen are “well, if you consider this line AND JK’s interview then it’s obvious. Do you really need someone to spell it out that it’s canon?” And, look, if you have to go out of your way to state “okay, well they didn’t say it exactly, but come on!” then maybe consider that you’re the one who’s wrong and it’s an ambiguous line that doesn’t prove anything? My aunt is straight, barely dated, and never married. Her life experiences that happen to coincide with what we see of Charlie are not any less valid than the experiences of any ace/aro people who also see themselves in Charlie. And that’s not even getting into the fact that 90% of the people citing the interview are hypocrites because they admit that they don’t care what JK has to say... unless it’s convenient to them, I guess

“But he’s the only ace representation we have!” Look, I get it. I know. The asexual and aromantic communities are sorely underrepresented in media. The number is not “literally two, at all, ever” as I’ve seen people on this site claim, but it is very low. This is a problem. But Charlie is just not that. In a game that, as far as we can tell right now, won’t even let us make ourselves asexual and still participate in the events, do you really think they’re going to go out of their way to try and respectfully represent the ace community? Are you all so ready to pat these writers on the back over an implication? I know. I know you all want this representation so badly, and I’m so sorry that Charlie isn’t canonically what the community wants him to be. Had they said that he was canonically ace/aro, then I wouldn’t even be making this post; I’d be congratulating the community

But they haven’t. They’ve put one line that sort of implies it in a game that gives, like, twelve lines implying that he has a crush on someone. By going around making all of these baseless claims that it’s canon now, you’re only making the community look worse. You’re actively denying the life experiences of other people and asserting your own as the only “correct” way to view things, and that’s what I can’t stand

I’ve seen at least one person claim that Charlie/MC shippers are exclusionists, I’ve seen people try to guilt other people into the ace!Charlie headcanon by playing the “we’re underrepresented” card, I’ve seen people go around saying you can still ship Charlie/MC but just know it’s not canon like ace!Charlie is (which implies that it’s inherently lesser than the ace!Charlie interpretation because we all know what connotation “canon” has in fandom). Just stop. All of this behavior is childish. Instead of acting entitled about your headcanon, support media with well-written ace characters that are respectful to the community! Seek out the ace media that exists and support it instead of claiming that there is none and aggressively trying to enforce your headcanons on non-canonically ace characters. Use the headcanon as a way to showcase how to write these things well, or as a springboard to start creating your own characters and stories. Media doesn’t spring up out of nowhere. If you want tasteful ace representation, someone has to create it

I’ve made it abundantly clear on my blog that the “my interpretation is the only correct way to interpret this ambiguous line” thought process is one that I despise. I’m a firm believer that the beauty of fiction, the beauty of art, is everyone’s ability to put a little piece of themselves into the experience, and this line of thought goes completely against that. It shuts down discussion. It doesn’t allow for a middle ground. And it’s what you all sound like when you make the claim that your headcanon is now canon. You sound like children sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting “LALALALALALA I’M RIGHT YOU‘RE WRONG.” You aren’t converting anyone to your cause. The people who support your position already agreed with you, and anyone who didn’t will double down on hating it because, SURPRISE, people don’t like being accused of thinking wrong

I said it once. I’ll reiterate. I don’t want people giving up the aro/ace!Charlie headcanon. It’s your right to interpret that line however you wish. It’s your right to experience the story in the way that makes you happiest because that’s ultimately what it’s there for. But it’s my right and anyone else’s right to interpret that vague line in a way that makes each of us happy, too, and I won’t stand for people denying that right to others by asserting things that are just factually incorrect. There’s a difference between something actually being canon and something being implied or open to interpretation. Please stop insisting that the latter is the former just because you wish it was. And above all:

Just don’t be children and let people enjoy fiction their own way. Don’t be pushy in the comments or tags with your headcanons/interpretations. You’re not being an activist by yelling at people over sexuality headcanons. You’re just being a dick and I’d better not see everyone fighting again because they can’t respect a difference of interpretation (nope, that’s exactly what they all did)

[bluerosesburnblue]

Bless that post. I love the aro/ace headcanon, but I also love all mc/charlie shippers. Basically, I'm very very Pro-Ship and like... I've seen the people who headcanon aro/ace charlie get really hostile and weirdly aggressive over it. I'm pretty sure one person even deactivated their account because they dared to call out the harrasment and were in turn harrassed themselves. Fandom is supposed to be fun and shipping should never be about activism like some ppl are trying to do and it boggles me

Thank you. Given the extremes people go to on this site, it’s nice to see someone else who agrees with me about keeping these things measured and respectful

Honestly, my breaking point the other night was that I happened to see an anon on one of the really popular blogs in the fandom. All they said was that they were a fan of the ace headcanon, but they saw a lot of the negativity in the tag in regards to the Charlie/MC ship and were worried that if they started posting their stuff regarding it that they’d get backlash or get seen as insensitive. The whole thing looked like someone who was very anxious asking someone they respected if they thought it would be appropriate. They probably trusted that blog to be mature and give them some reassurance

The response they got was basically (I’m paraphrasing here) “The ace ‘headcanon’ is undeniably canon, you can still post your thing but just know that it’s not canon and nobody has to like the fact that you posted it. I don’t know what hate you’re seeing, but I haven’t seen it and I don’t think it exists.” Which is, like… denying that anon’s experience and brushing off their fears is just a shitty thing to do to someone who was obviously nervous and looking for reassurance. And also completely wrong. Just because you can read that interpretation into a canon line doesn’t mean that your interpretation is completely canonical. Dating and romantic or sexual attraction are not the same thing. And it’s bad enough that that response is getting a good amount of notes

But what really pissed me off was a response I saw from someone else on that post. This person immediately accused that anon of intentionally overreacting and fishing for sympathy, crossing the line by asking someone they respected about their opinion of the discourse, and trying to deny asexual people representation. And they had the nerve to go on about how “people you thought were nice are turning out to be shitty people.” And then told that anon to grow up

That is absolutely disgusting behavior. Even if Charlie was canonically aro/ace, it would be going too far. Nobody knows anything about that anon, because they’re a goddamned anon. For all anybody knows, that anon could’ve been a kid or young teen who legitimately wanted to be respectful to the ace/aro community and thought it best to ask someone they respected what their opinion was. This is exactly what I was afraid was going to start up. That the second somebody showed that they didn’t agree with the popular interpretation or, god forbid, admitted that they don’t know enough and wanted another opinion, that they’d get slammed and harassed, with accusations made about their character. A character that we can’t even truly know because this is the internet and it’s easy to read whatever you want into these things. You’re not “educating” anyone, you’re just making them not want to learn

And then that original blog had the gall to tell that anon that they didn’t see any reason why they’d be afraid of harassment. When that aggressive, uncalled for response was a response on their post

The best part? Not only did that anon directly cite a post that had bothered them in a later ask, but they admitted that they were ace and questioning aro and just didn’t see why that line made the interpretation canon

And the person who slammed them? Not aro/ace.

As far as I can tell, that anon never got an apology. The sidequest isn’t even out yet and the fandom has already devolved into people making assumptions and yelling over actual ace people over their own representation and refusing to see a problem with it. In fact, they think they’re in the right because quite a few popular blogs agree with them. That anon could’ve been a kid. Are we really going to scream at people who might be kids over a headcanon?

Not a single, goddamned person made any effort to say that that person was out of line. Not a single person saw a problem with that response. I’d say it was just that one person in the wrong, but I’ve seen equally harsh and aggressive responses by other people out there, too. This isn’t a situation of one person being an asshole (if it was I might’ve just called them out, specifically), they just happened to be the one to tip me over the edge

That’s what’s pissing me off about this situation. If someone is legitimately so scared to post something completely harmless that goes against the popular interpretation, then there is a problem. There is a problem, that shouldn’t be ignored just because you might disagree with that anon’s opinion. People don’t get that scared for no reason. It’s awful and immature to ignore the problem. To pretend it doesn’t exist, or to support the response they got and double down just to make yourself look right

People are really getting this awful over a side character in a mobile game. Just back up and really look at that. A side character. In a mobile game.

Some people need to grow up, and it sure ain’t that anon. And I hope that if that anon ever sees this, they know that they’ve got my support and I’m so sorry that some people think asserting that their headcanon is canon is more important than an actual, living person

As for the “it’s canon do we really have to spell it out for you?” argument, uhhh… YEAH. Not them, specifically, but the source material does. Otherwise it’s not CANON. Canon is reserved for things irrefutably stated in the text not “all possible (or your favorite) ways you could interpret lines in the text.” When it’s widely accepted, that’s fanon. Canon: Charlie states that he doesn’t have time for dating because he’s busy studying dragons. Fanon: Charlie is ace/aro. We also need to destroy this false equivalency that dating and romantic attraction are the same thing. It doesn’t help anybody on either side

And no joke, I read a novel one time and the main character was so obviously ace to me. The whole thing was written from his point of view, and he was always questioning why people found romance to be so important. He wasn’t into any of the girls that flirted with him, he kissed his male best friend and said he didn’t feel any sparks, he avoided romance of all kinds even while questioning his sexuality. Well, come the end of the book, he realizes that he was gay and in denial and VERY in love with his best friend. It was adorable when they got together

But at the same time, there was way more evidence to suggest that that character was ace than there is for Charlie, and yet canonically he was gay despite that. Sexuality is something very complex and personal and the discovery of it no less so, so yes, absolutely, I think it needs to be stated in some way to be canon. Things can’t just be implied to be considered canon. Your assumptions may very easily be wrong, or not what the author intended. And even things that the author intended can be considered non-canon. Death of the Author is a real thing, after all. If it’s not stated in the text, it’s not canonical

If Charlie had said “I’m not interested in romance and don’t know if I ever will be” or something similar, then yes I’d say they had a basis for their argument. But that’s not what he said. Charlie says… basically what I would have if someone had flirted with me in high school. My suspicion is that something in JC’s contract meant that they weren’t allowed to make Bill, Tonks, or Charlie romance options, so they just reworded JK’s old interview when writing his dialogue to be more relevant to the quest material

And people using that interview as “proof” is especially funny to me since she only said that after denying the possibility that he could be gay because Dumbledore already was. You’re all really expecting this woman whose reaction to being asked if a character being homosexual was a possible interpretation was “Uh, no, we already have one of those,” to go around and confirm him to belong to an even less represented group? And do it tastefully? And then have half of these people who take that as canon also state that they don’t generally consider things that JK reveals outside of the source to matter?

Christ, people, learn the difference between canon, fanon, and Word of God. And then stop ignoring or harassing people for rightly calling out that you’re misusing the terms