#extjs development

[mbti-notes]

It says that Te dom are afraid to be weak. But I've noticed a lot of xxFJ also express that fear. Especially ExFJs, they want to be capable and strong. One of my friend (ENFJ, male) say that they dislike feeling weak and feel shame if they didn't push themselves enough to solve a problem. What could explain that mindset that if FJs don't have Te-Fi? More importantly, is it possible ExFJ mistype themselves as ExTJ for that reason? Bc they see themselves as strong and confrontational?

As far as I can tell, the main problem is that you are oversimplifying. There are two aspects to this problem that often interfere with the type assessment process:

1) The tendency to stereotype and overemphasize superficial characteristics: This is usually a result of not understanding the distinction between cognition and behavior, which is the first major principle covered in the Function Theory Guide.

Two different types can exhibit the same behavior but for different underlying cognitive reasons. For example, there is a common stereotype that portrays ExTJs as leaders/managers due to dominant Te. Yet, in reality, ExFJs are equally likely to gravitate to leadership roles. How are you going to explain this in the absence of Te? Is Te equal to leadership or does Te have a monopoly on leadership? No and no.

"Leadership" is a behavior. A behavior can arise for many possible reasons. Te doms might gravitate to leadership due to a desire for order or control, whereas Fe doms might gravitate to leadership due to a desire to influence and improve group cohesion. The "leadership" behavior may look similar on the surface, but the cognitive reasons/motivations underneath it are vastly different, because Te and Fe are very different functions.

If you don't properly distinguish cognition from behavior, you won't have a deep enough understanding of WHY the behavior exists, and then it's very easy to be led astray by superficial stereotypes during type assessment.

2) Overlooking context and circumstance: This is usually a result of not understanding that human beings are motivated by a multitude of factors, and personality type is only one of them. Most human behavior is multifactorial. Before you try to attribute a behavior to a particular type/function, have you made sure that other external factors/causes have been properly accounted for?

Why is it that, compared to other types, ExTJs are more likely to have this quality of being "afraid to be weak"? It is directly attributable to inferior Fi. However, this doesn't mean there aren't other factors/causes behind it. Another factor that could be at play is general fear of vulnerability, which can afflict anyone of any type. Fear of vulnerability isn't mainly a matter of personality but of negative experiences that hampered ego development, though it might also negatively influence function expression. Most people operate at lower levels of ego development, so fear of vulnerability is a widespread issue, to varying degrees.

In the case of ExFJs, Fe not only encourages one to harmonize with prevailing social norms and customs, it also encourages one to actively maintain and enforce them whenever one observes behaviors that go against the norm. This is one reason why Fe doms can come across as strong-willed, confrontational, even meddling.

However, there can be many other reasons why they come across that way. For instance, ExFJs who have grown up in very harsh or hostile environments might constantly be faulted or shamed for "oversharing", "oversensitivity", or being "overemotional". When healthy dominant function development gets inhibited by powerful environmental factors, it can have a negative impact on how a person expresses all of their functions. People don't only use one function, so Fe isn't the only function to consider.

For example, since environmentally oppressed ExFJs can't really use Fe in a positive way to influence and improve the social environment, they have little choice but to use it in a negative way to conform with the very norms and customs that denigrate their natural Fe strengths. Instead of using Ti in a positive way to encourage healthy boundary setting and reasonable decision making, they have little choice but to use it in a negative way to obsess about "strength", "competence", "independence", or "intelligence", because that is the only means they know of avoiding shame and obtaining validation.

In short, can you tell the difference between natural function expression (positive) and compensatory function behavior (negative)? You won't be able to tell the difference until you understand the complex relationship between personality and environment.

As I wrote in the Function Theory Guide: "To really understand someone, you must contextualize their behavior, by examining all the different forces that might be motivating them." Human psychology is complicated, which means there's always more going on beneath the surface than you realize. If you think type assessment should be a simple process, you're likely to suffer a high error rate.

[rainytypology]

MBTI Grip: Fi

An explaination on Fi grip in MBTI. Not an expert. May change later.

___

Grips occur when a type is under an immense amount of stress. Their other functions give up mentally and "shut down", which allows their inferior function to take over. A type in the grip begins to act like the unhealthy version of their inferior function, very unlike and opposite of themselves. Grips can last for a short while or longer, depending on how long the stress persists.

___

Fi inferior (ExTJ)

Fi inferior types do not allow their personal values and morals to get in the way of decision making. This may make them appear cold and heartless. In reality, they are not (at least well developed ExTJs); they just want to make the best decision that works for themselves and everyone else.

When in an Fi grip, they can become overly sensitive and pitiful. Often driven and confident individuals, their motivation begins to stagger and drop. They start to believe they are not good enough and do not want to try to do anything anymore because they don't see the point. They feel aimless and pessimistic about everything. They may try to cover their sadness with anger as an attempt to appear strong, but it rarely works well.

Te doms in a grip should try to use their aux perceiving function (Ni for ENTJ, Si for ESTJ) to help get out of it. For Ni, strategize new plans and goals to get themselves motivated to reach goals. For Si, ESTJs should tend to their inner needs, learn to balance their personal health and external demands. They've likely fallen into the grip in the first place by failing to achieve most of their goals. They can write down their feelings just to get it out of them and if they can, analyze and figure out a solution that can help them get better. It helps to gain insight and advice from others as well.

___

MBTI Notes

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[azenta]

As someone who didn't know they were high Te for a long time, what common claims have you learned are myths/bullshit about TJs? And has something about you finally made sense after learning you use Te?

The biggest bullshit claim is how Te is associated with being an emotionless robot. If there is one thing I have learned about Te is that it cares a lot. And cannot hide where it stands and how the person feel about an issue. It's transparent, crystal clear and particularly vocal about anything it has an opinion about, which is many things usually. However, if they don't care about an issue or are indifferent, they can be cold hearted about it, since Te still deserves its reputation for being tactless and bold in how it expresses its points.

I wouldn't say that it made "more sense" when I got typed as NiTe instead of "NiFe" (/INFJ). It actually helped me sort out better the cognitive functions and redefine with better clarity. What made more sense is the concept of "development" levels, or integrated functions, that helped me seize myself better and enlarged my general comprehension of cognitive functioning. INTJ was my initial typing when I started delving into typology years ago, so I already had a mental conception of how functions were supposed to work within me. It switched back rapidly to that previous comprehension, with some adjustments.

For me, it was knowing I had Fi "integrated" in my consciousness that helped me understand a lot about myself, and it clarified why the INFJ label gave more justice to that aspect of myself than the INTJ one could. I don't want to go on for too long about this tho. I only wanted to highlight what really helped me to make more sense of myself. This notion could deserve a whole post of its own because of how fascinating it is, and well, complex in its own fashion.

In the end, I'd say xxTJs (specifically ExTJs) deserve their reputation for being real careless bulldozers sometimes, but their reputation for being robots is hilariously wrong. They really are the opposite of robots, even tho as I mentioned, when they don't give a fuck, they really don't and can be cruel, but they do care about lot of stuff and will get reactive and emotional for sure about those. Just learn to know what they care about and you'll get a fiery passionate inflamed essay that you really didn't ask for about it lol.

I would simply mention that SiTe and NiTe that don't have Te integrated are closer to being emotionless robot tbh, since Te is very passionate in itself. If it's not integrated nor much valued, it makes those types much more carefree or absorbed than a typical ISTJ/INTJ type is expected to be.

Anyway, I won't derail furthermore. That's what I could think of, if there is a stereotype you have in mind and wonder how much bs it is, you can ask. Rn, that's the only things that came to my mind while thinking about it. So, I hope it could answer your question. If you have any other question or want to share how typing as high Te changed your perspective, you're welcome to do so x).

[rainymbti-moved]

SF9 MBTI

*Based on my opinion and cognitive functions. May change later*

*Also I am aware they have talked about their types, but they most likely used the 16personalities site. The results are often very inaccurate from there.*

Explanation of functions

*Updated 07/06/22. I have also linked the more thorough mbti profiles of each member through their names.*

...

Youngbin

ISFP (Fi - Se - Ni - Te)

I thought ESTJ at first because of his strong leadership as ExTJs tend to be natural leaders. Youngbin had always taken charge during trainee days despite no assigned leader

Definitely confident that he uses Fi - Te....he seems to be a highly internalized person. Fi is a really internal feeling function. I know the members have pointed it out a couple of times how Youngbin doesn't/didn't talk about his deeper feelings much

Likes being physically active, interest in sports - pretty common with dom/aux Se, especially since Se is like a physical function

Also likely why he has such a cool dance style? I'm not a dancer so idk how to describe it exactly, but he seems to have a lot of fun yet cool vibe to his dancing

Ni can show through his tattoos and the meanings of them, how he mentioned wanting to be a dad (long term future planning/goals is quite Ni)

Also just a thought - just find it cute how he really likes mbti too haha. He's slowly becoming an mbti nerd too

Inseong

ENTP (Ne - Ti - Fe - Si)

Considering how much of a brainiac he is, no surprise he's an Ne dom. So much energy mentally and physically. His Ne-Ti really shows when he's on programs like Problematic Men

Also such a chatterbox(Dom ne things lol)

Has really good developed Fe; definitely the ice breaker of this group. His high Ne energy + Fe, he's never shy to liven up the atmosphere and make ppl laugh...even if it gives everyone else 2nd hand embarrassment lol.

ENTPs are just embarrassing in general jk

He's hilarious and witty like most ENTPs

Impulsive and lowkey vulgar lol

Jaeyoon

ESFJ (Fe - Si - Ne - Ti)

So much Fe in this man...Deeply considerate and kind

A bit awkward, but he doesn't seem too shy. He can be open and friendly, he's openly affectionate towards others(common in Fe)

Seems to like having some sort of structure/routine in his life. Si doesn't have to be super organized, it's having some sense of familiarity and routine, more conventional

However having Ne as the 3rd function gives him new ideas and experiments to try out. He doesn't mind doing new things sometimes

Him and Inseong having the same functions...probably why they're so chaotic together. They're also very different though, so I'm not surprised they used to fight back then

Dawon

ESTP (Se - Ti - Fe - Ni) or ENFJ (Fe - Ni - Se - Ti)

Same functions but different order...just trying to see which one he prefers. He's the trickiest for me

Straightforward and stubborn. Does not give up easily without a fight, which I notice in a lot of Se users. He is also a bit argumentative

Bit of a rebel like a lot of ESTPs....if him escaping from church doesn't prove that then idk what will. Obviously doesn't like to stay still, has a lot of physical energy(Se)

I think he has a strong Fe, which is why he's sensitive....he doesn't or at least tries not to show it, but other's words seem to affect him a lot. Fe tends to care about other's perspective of them

Might be ENFJ bc he is most likely just exaggerating his Fe-Se to fit the mc role. I have no doubts he's a natural jokester, but he really amps up that side of him for the camera. Due to this, I think it really tires him out...He seems to have a more deeper and introspective side off camera. Although ESTPs are also capable of being deep too. E.g my ESTP older sibling loves reading and writing poetry, listening to soft and meaningful songs, etc.

Zuho

ENFJ (Fe - Ni - Se - Ti)

Has a very strong use of Fe, he's very social and outgoing. Very charismatic and charming. Dude is friends with so many people. Genuinely loves connecting with others

SF9's hands tattoo on his thigh....such an Fe-Ni thing to have. He put a lot of thought into his tattoos, even thinking of the future implication of him showing it off and explaining his story to those curious.

Like a lot of Ni users, he's invested about his work. A lot of Ni users tend to focus on a path and work on that for life. E.g me with my art; although I haven't drawn as much as I used to, it's still a goal to become an artist. It's always been a part of my life, so I really can't imagine a future without it. I'm sure Zuho feels the same way and so continues to improve with his writing and producing skills. Music gives him meaning to his life

Rowoon

INFP (Fi - Ne - Si - Te)

So weird

Well spoken...ne tends to talk with a lot of metaphors. Not only is he well spoken, he is also very talkative

He seems more reserved when around unfamiliar people(Fi is more private). But his Ne definitely comes out with his members and other ppl he feels close with

Always works hard to prove he's more than just a pretty face; Fi - Te makes him want to develop himself more

Good use with all his functions. Organized and a bit nagging, he doesn't seem to like it when things get too hectic. Although he's chaotic himself lol, when the others get too rowdy, he usually tries to quiet them down.

Taeyang

ISFP (Fi - Se - Ni - Te)

Maybe it's his Scorpio moon I'm reading, but I always found Tae to be intense. Fi doms (IxFPs) can be kind of intense sometimes

Fi makes him want to be unique and individualistic

Se is focused on the present moment and uses the 5 senses...Tae gains inspiration from his surroundings, always looking at physical things

Also the way he dances...mans got no bones or something. Not all se doms/aux are automatically good dancers, but they have the highest chance to be able to dance the way Taeyang does

But idk why he's so clumsy lol

Ni is usually focused on long term planning and goals. Tae wants to focus on having an androgynous and eye catching vibe with his performances

Hwiyoung

INFP (Fi - Ne - Si - Te)

He's so weird in like....a chill way. He's dorky. INFPs have a scale of being very intense or soft like Hwi. He's probably the most soft hearted in this group. Rowoon is in the middle I guess, he's kinda chaotic

Has strong opinions he's not afraid to share

Quite honest about his feelings, how sensitive and emotional he is

Has the Ne optimism and according to Chani, strange/unrealistic ideas

Chani

INTJ (Ni - Te - Fi - Se)

The lame Ni humor he has

The way he talks and writes...in a letter he wrote to Hwi for his bday, he briefly mentions their past and focuses more on their future(ni tends to be future oriented). Like many ni users, does not have the best memory

Straightforward and honest, very hardworking(Te). He's also quite realistic and the type to give advice instead of comfort. Very Te thing to do, as Te doms/aux would rather give a solution to a problem

Bit impulsive, reactive(inferior Se). Also SO slow

Expressionless...INTJs are notorious for being expressionless and seemingly emotionless

Also an INTJ myself, he is too relatable to not be one

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

Hey! I always seem to end up in blog when researching MBTI and I thought finally I'd ask for help. I've been wanting to figure out my actual MBTI type for years. I've done the tests, asked on forums, learned the functions aaand bam - every time it just doesn't quite fit. I hope you'd be able to give me some tips. [1] (I'm so sorry these are in parts, it's only letting me do a block at a time)

I feel that my personality has changed from being an overachiever (an ExTJ) who didn’t care about stepping on people to survive to being an Ixxx and having an EXTREMELY strong moral compass which is almost the basis of the things that I do. I see almost all actions as right or wrong and feel that it is my duty to do the right thing even when others don't. It’s not coming from within me but I really want to be a better person and my mind has developed these morals. Linking to that, I have always had plans spanning 30 years to the future and have always had an extremely strong need to go into a medical career. [2] I pick my battles, ie. when people talk bad about me I don't care or take it personally unless it is not logical which is when I really get pissed off. Logic is equally at the top of why I do things. If a system isn’t working, I try something else. Everything has a system, an order. And I love analysing things and particularly behaviour. When people talk about opinions, I want to know about their thought process ie. if they think I’m organised I want to know examples & how did they get to that point. I’ve also been told I turn casual conversations into debates on hypothetical situations. [3]Now the tricky part… I like to keep things to myself, ie. I speak another language but haven’t told a soul. When I was younger my parents used to pressure me to take another language. I told them I never would even when that disappointed them and they started being verbally abusive. So, I needed to feel at peace with myself first and I wanted it to be MY decision. I don't want to live a life others want for me, I don’t like having influences in my decisions. If someone tells me to do something, I probably would not do it t all just to make the point. But still when I am a bit blunt when I get fed up or when I joke, I try to maintain overall peoples harmony first even when I get exhausted when I initiate conversations with extreme introverts. I feel the need to be switching subjects and that I need to carry their feelings and not get my own real word in as to not hurt them. [4]I'm not that warm and welcoming to new people unless I'm the new person. I want to know my "position" is safe and before I think about becoming friends with them I take time to figure out what type of person they truly are by listening to them and seeing if their actions hold (ie. do they go talk behind someones back, do they repeat the same jokes to everyone). I have no problem cutting people off suddenly and completely. But then I feel strong pull towards few random people that fascinate me, they then can do no wrong in my eyes, they become characters of my internal world where I’ve lived 50 lives and scenarios and where I go to relax and feel finally content and at peace. [5]It's hard for me to understand feelings I haven't experienced myself, have grown out of or don't see as big deals. Say when I got into an accident I was fine and calm - didn't even tell my friends/family. When my friend experienced the same they immediately called their family and were very emotional. I thought they were being dramatic and that there were bigger issues, it isn’t like they died (= logic again here). I don't express my emotions and don't feel them either, at all. I don't really feel others emotions at all either. I'm calm in stress, been told I have an ear for working in trauma situations. I notice patterns. In games, in behaviour. I can predict what happens based on that. I only feel at ease when I'm able to read people and predict their behaviour and thinking as I know their intentions then. [7] (again, SO sorry these were in parts!!)

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I'm fairly confident you have high Ni, and my guess is if you were considering ExTJ prior, ENTJ still fits this, and you've just developed as you've gotten older to not being quite as much of a steamroller. If your personal situation has gotten more stable as you've grown that would also be a huge non-MBTI factor in that sort of development. The logic you express here does seem to be Te with high Ni leading into the hypotheticals, rather than high Ti, and there's a lot here that really points away from Ti-Fe/towards Te-dom: difficulty understanding certain points of view but being aware of it; good in crisis situations; fiercely independent and wanting your decisions to be your own. I think you're an ENTJ who has matured a bit, and I also think you're not an 8 so the particularly forceful ENTJ archetypes might sound off to you. I'd look at 1 or 3 cores in enneagram; 1 fits the moral compass and 3 fits some of what you've said here regarding interactions with other people.

[extnuke]

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[hachichimitsu2]

I love your South Park cognitive functions post! Very precise yet easy to understand. I've always found these topics to be very fascinating. I also noticed you're an Aggrestuko fan! Have you considered what personality types the characters would be? I can see Retsuko as an ISFJ (hard-working, reliable, follows orders to the detail, difficulty standing up for herself), Haida an ISFP (highly creative, guided heavily by his emotions, and shown to act quick in a crisis), Fenneko an INTP (prizes logic much more than feelings, able to connect two and two easily), Ton an ESTJ (blunt, harsh, prefers tried and true methods over new technology, and is nonetheless loyal to his employees), Manaka an ESTP (direct, loves the spotlight, preceptive of her surroundings), and Tadano an ENFP (inventive, contemplates unique ideas, and wants to make the future a better place).

Ahhhhh thank you so, so much for the sweet compliment!! 😭😭 It’s been my absolute goal to explain cognitive functions in an easy, simple way for newcomers, so I’m glad to hear it’s understandable for you!

And yes I am! In fact, I just finished Season 4 just recently haha. I actually agree with the majority of your type classifications! :) I think the only ones I had typed differently was Manaka and Tadano. For Manaka, I typed her as an EXTJ of some sorts, considering the fact that she is direct, confrontational and no-nonsense, while also doing whatever it takes to get the job done, such as not taking it too personally when Retsuko was assigned the lead singer. Her extroverted thinking seems to be her strongest suit in her personality, but I’m still unsure if she’s an ENTJ or ESTJ 😅

For Tadano, I always pinned him to be an ENTP with well-developed extroverted feeling, which is why he could be mistaken as a “Feeler” type. Unlike ENFPs who use “introverted feeling”, ENTPs in contrast with their extroverted feeling tend to always have a justification as to why they do the things that they do, and Tadano’s primary motivation to make the world a better place is internally calculated and aligned to his own logic about how things should be. He sees people in a “collective” light instead of in an “individual” lens and doesn’t conform to beliefs that don’t logically make sense to him (marriage, settling down, etc.).

But I could be wrong! I think your typings are pretty spot-on! I love discussing about MBTI and stuff, so thanks for sharing your thoughts 😭💕💕

[amai-no-ura]

A little rumination to myself

I have just submitted my first job application. To be honest I REALLY hope they choose me and let me get to the interview. It would be massive to work in such a company. Lots of opportunities as well, I can see it quite clearly.

But I was asking myself, but what kind of person I want to be in the future then? When I get into the workforce, into the real job. What kind of person I want to be. I thought of my mother, a she-tiger whose tongue is sweeter than syrup but mind colder than the touch of permafrost. She is the kind of boss who never cares about anyone but herself and that she gets money for herself and her family. She ... well, abuses her employees. Treat them unjustly and use them for her own gains (telling them to send her things for her when that's not their duty at all).

Sure, she is effective and people respect her. But seriously, no one loves her, not a single bit. There is no loyalty to her because she has never been loyal to anyone either. But she doesn't care, she just wants to make money. (And this woman, guys, is ESFJ 3w2 sp/so, so stop telling people ExTJs are the only type who are impersonal and business-minded). Anyone else is not her business.

Then I think back to myself. I try to see myself down the road, years from now. When I stand in my warehouse/fishery what I see is my people talking to me like their brother, their friend, their equals. Some of them even tease me, in fact, we laugh together and we work together then we feast together. We live our life together sharing our goals and passion for work, albeit for different reasons. Some of them are in it for money, some for passion, some only care about their family and another for idealistic goals. But we still communicate to each other on equal level. We are all the same, the member of the same corporation. Each of us has our duty to perform but at the end of the day, our shared identity still binds us all together. We take care of our own and treat each other with respect and justice.

That is the kind of person I want to be in the future. I see a different picture when I tease my mind about becoming the monster I've always been capable of. I will be lonely, paranoid recluse who can't trust anyone and have to live in constant fear and anger. Like a creek blocked by debris, unable to connect with the streams and flow clean water. I don't want that path, no.

Then I won't be like my mother. I won't let my people down. I will build my family and community. I will be worthy of them all. I have to be. The wind of the forest, the sleepy snore of the creek, the lazy temper of the waves, the dance of biting cold. All of them wait for me there, but I have to prove myself and be worthy of them all. Hence, I have to start working on self-development immediately. I must be smarter, kinder and more empathetic. I cannot allow my crappy family and surrounding to drag me down the path of demon. I have to fly above them and be good and just, the way I'm always meant to be.

The more I stay with my family, the more apathic, ruthless, violent and uncaring I've become. And what am I if I'm no longer kind and empathetic. It is my greatest asset and my greatest weapon - a lethal tool that allows me to be who I am. The colder I became, the more dysfunctional and erratic I've become. This must not be, I must transcend it.

Ok, end of the rant.

[only1bedtrope]

Moonlight lovers MBTI+Enneagram

Vladimir: ISTJ 1w9 163 Raphael: INFP 9w1 946 Beliath: ESTP 7w8 738 Ethan: ENTP 8w7 873 Aaron: ISTP 9w8 962 Ivan: ISFP 6w7 cp(he’s my least favorite so i don’t really know for sure) 649 Neil: EXTJ 8 

Some things i know for sure: Raphael is not an INFJ, he literally is a living Fi-Si axis, he has no Ni at all, the biggest thing with him is that’s he’s stuck in his own subjective sentimentalism and impressions of his experiences Beliath and Ethan have pretty bad tertiary Fe that develops in the end of their routes (EXTP) Neil is not an enneagram 3w4, i’ve explained in another post, i can see why he would be inferior Fi, but we’ve seen little about him, i’m just sure he’s a 8, probably 8w9 I don’t see why Ivan is typed as INFP, he doesn’t seem to have any Ne-Si, he’s pretty straightfoward and takes things as they come (Se), doesn’t really value the capabilities of brainstorming or dweling into the inconscious, I understand why 6w5 but i think it’s just because he’s shy and isolated, he’s very out there with his reactiveness (6w7), and he’s counterphobic because while exposed to fear, he attacks to protect himself instead of running away like a phobic 6 About Aaron, i know very little about him, i can see the arguments about inferior Fe and ISTP seems reasonable to me, since i see no Ne-Si for him to be an INTP, but i don’t see why he would be 9w1 instead of 9w8 since 9w8s are more relaxed and go-with-the-flow while comparing him with Raphael who’s 9w1, is more “rigid” and self-critical, contrary to popular belief it isn’t 9w8=agressive 9w1=meek The only one i could see being XNTJ is Neil, not because he’s manipulative and a villain but because i see pretty bad Fi and overwhelming Te, i’ve seen some people typing Vladimir or Ethan as INTJ and i don’t see any Ni, especially dominant: i’ve talked about Vlad before and Ethan’s main function is not introverted or subjective