#even setting aside the bible as a religious text

[nulfaga]

the only thing about something that may shock and discredit you is that now i'm addicted to seeing dan lavery talk about scripture. he's so like...evocative and joyful and playful... i need stmsady 2: This One's Just A Reference Bible

[si11yw0rm]

FORGIVE ME, FATHER. PT I

pairing: priest sukuna x afab reader (with no use of y/n)

blurb: you become obsessed with local priest of the town you just moved into after your wild breakup, and you try to stay away from him. until you notice he doesn't want to stay away from you.

tags: dirty talk (degradation), choking, communion (idk but he makes you drink communion wine and drinks it off your pussy), oral (fem rec.), hair pulling, clit spanking, swallowing (spit) use of pet, little one, and dove.

wc: idk, but somewhere around 3k+ (no beta reading. i need a beta reader.)

a/n: i am on fire, and cannot be stopped. i think it should be said without warning that this fic might be a little uncomfortable if you are religious, so please keep that in mind before you go on!

I : “Forgive me, Father. For I have sinned.”

You were a sinner.

A bad one at that.

You had stolen all of your ex's money before you left him tied up in his own bed, and just before that, you had slashed the tires of the girl he had been cheating on you with.

It wasn't fair. You had given all of your time, love and money to him, and he had tossed you aside like you were worth nothing. Like you were just a waste of space.

People in your high school always said the two of you would get married and die old together, so why did he have to ruin that for both of you? It had hurt you to leave, but somewhere along the drive, you had truly made peace with it.

The bag slipped from your shoulders and you yanked it back up, your eyes settling on the motel in front of you. It was old and looked like it was in need of serious renovation, but it had an air about it that made the knot in your chest relax.

The motel owner and the woman you had texted in a hurry off TripAdivsor was waiting for you in front, and she waved at you as you pulled the last bag out of your truck.

She rushed off the porch, coming to help you and before you could wave her off she was already picking up a bag and heading down the driveaway, leading you up to a door labelled 120.

"You came earlier than I was expecting." Her voice reminded you of your own grandmother, and you fought away the mental images of when she used to run her hands through your hair.

"Traffic was light." You said, setting your bags on the porch as she started rummaging through the worn fanny pack wrapped around her waist for what you suspected were your keys.

"Oh, that is just delightful. I thought I would have to miss the bible study, but God just made a way for me. Isn't He so good?" She was talking with the same fervor your grandmother did, the one that stayed in her voice even when she was on her deathbed.

"I see." You didn't say anything else as she pushed the keys into your hands, shaking her head as if she had expected that from you.

"You can call me Martha." She said, the wrinkles in her face crinkling as her lips lifted in a smile. You could tell it was genuine and cleared your throat, repeating your name to her as your hand squeezed over the keys.

"I can tell you are running from something, child. We all are. You must return to the one who can give you rest." Martha stepped back, getting off the porch of your complex and she dipped her hand in her fanny pack again, before pulling it out with a brochure in her hands.

She handed it to you and you accepted it with a forced smile, but she continued on as if she hadn't noticed. "You should give Him a chance. Our priest is very welcoming."

You were sure she would have stayed there longer preaching to you had her phone not rang. The song was an old one you vaguely remembered your grandmother singing, and you watched her walk away before you turned to enter your apartment, shaking your head.

What was it with His followers and their blind dedication?

It didn't matter if Martha was the nicest woman you had ever come across. You were going to stay away from that church even if it killed you.

You didn't need that kind of serving. You needed to focus on healing yourself, and getting your life back together after your ex had sent a tornado hurtling towards it.

------------------- ⛧✟⛧ --------------------

Martha was not one to give up. You almost didn't believe she was as old as she looked, because she got up every morning to remind you about a church service, and if you had taken a look at the brochure.

You hadn't touched it since you left it on the small coffee table in the living room, and it was slowly starting to mock you every time you moved into the room. It was like God Himself was pushing you to pick it up.

"God has a direction for each and every one of us, little flower. It's up to us to decide whether we want that for ourselves." Remembering your grandmother's words on her deathbed at this particular time was a little cruel. You missed her so much.

"You must be the new one Martha talked about." The voice startled you out of your thoughts, but the first thing you noticed about it was that it was smooth, almost like honey. It also sounded aged, and when you looked up, you could see why.

Ever since you managed to get a job at the local supermarket (the owner's wife who usually ran the desk was pregnant, and while the pay was meager, he allowed you take home some of the goods without pay, which was a win in your book), the town's people hadn't said more to you than a greeting.

They avoided you, so seeing a tall, incredibly attractive man smiling at you softly like he had met you in another lifetime was certainly shocking.

You almost couldn't find your tongue, because he was that breathtaking. His eyes were hooded, but they were filled with warmth, and the grey at his temples only added to a look that screamed refined silver fox.

He dropped a box of candles and a loaf of bread on the counter and you suddenly remembered he had asked you a question.

"Yes. I am. I stay at her motel." Your voice was shaky, and you prayed he wouldn't notice it. You couldn't bear to lose your cool in front of a man like this. A man who was very much unlike your ex boyfriend.

He smiled, and you got a hint that there was more to him than he let on. "Are you settling in okay? Martha is a nice woman, so I am sure she is taking good care of you, right?"

You swiped the two items through the scanner and nodded, flipping the screen so he could see his total. "$9.50." It was crazy how cheap things were here compared to the city you came from. It was probably the only reason the money you had in your savings hadn't been totally useless.

The man grabbed the bag you had put his stuff in and smacked a $20 bill on the counter. "Keep the change, you might need it."

Before you could protest, he was already gone, and you were left standing there with a telltale fire burning in your belly. You never imagined you could meet someone like him in a town like this, and you wondered what brought him here.

You hadn't spotted a wedding ring, so you knew he wasn't married, but it was just as easy to take it off as it was to wear one. Something told you he was taken, but by an entirely different entity.

His smile was sweet, but he had that same soft hazy look in his eyes. Like he had an inner peace only he was privy to.

You had seen that look before.

On both Martha and your grandmother.

------------------- ⛧✟⛧ --------------------

It was well over a month of your staying there and getting used to your new schedule before you saw him again.

Your boss's wife was nearing her due date so he paid you more to work overtime. You had gotten used to most of the townspeople, and they put in more effort to talk to you now. It was still mostly polite and cordial, but it was better than nothing.

On the plus side, you had fixed most of the broken leaking things in the apartment with Martha's permission, and you were sitting on your porch knitting when Martha was leaving her house to go to church.

Again.

She smiled when she saw you, using the hand that wasn't holding her bible to wave at you. Martha had stopped trying to invite you every time she was leaving, so you expected her to make her way down to her car, but this time she started walking for your porch.

"You should come with me today, young one." Her voice was soft, and you couldn't help but drop your knitting and smile at her. It couldn't hurt, right?

Besides, your TV was still at the repairman's shop, and you hadn't bought a set of new books yet. You were sure to be bored out of your mind, so maybe just one visit couldn't hurt.

You smiled at Martha, noticing how her face brightened when she realized you were coming. "I would wait for you by the car."

If you had known you would have seen him again, you wouldn't have come along. Because waiting at the doors of the church was the man from the supermarket, dressed in a simple priest garb and collar.

He was greeting the other members as they walked in, and when he looked up and saw you coming with Martha, he froze before smiling. You were close enough that you could see something dark flit across his expression before he quickly masked it.

"Father, this is the one I told you about." Martha was older than him, but she looked at him with heart eyes and a lovestruck expression that you were sure the priest could read.

Priest.

He was a priest.

He grinned at you, taking your hand. "I have been waiting for you, dove. I am Father Sukuna. Welcome to church."

II : “I confess to almighty God, that I have sinned through my own fault in my thoughts and in my words, and in what I have done.”

He was a wonderful orator. You never really remembered much of church growing up from when you were younger, but if you had had a priest like Sukuna, you probably would still be in church today.

He spun words and delivered them in a way that had you and all the members enraptured, and you almost wanted to sigh with disappointment when the sermon ended and everyone started kneeling.

The gentle rumble of everyone saying the prayer together made you feel warm, and you looked up in time to see Sukuna staring directly at you. Your cheeks went red, and a slow smile spread its way over his lips.

Is that how he would look at if you climbed through the pews and went to kneel in front of him?

Just as quickly as the thought came, it was gone and you were sure Sukuna could read it off your face. He couldn't be smiling at you like that if he couldn't, right?

Your emotions were in a flurry throughout the entire closing procedures and immediately they shared grace, you ran for Martha's car, refusing to look back, even though you could feel the heat of his gaze on your back.

Sukuna was dangerous.

With his dark lightly dusted pink hair, dark eyes that were so intense you found it difficult to breathe when they were on you and smooth angular features that made you remember the raw sensuality the naked statues at the museum exuded, you knew he would only bring you nothing but pain.

He would ruin you, and you would kneel at his feet and beg him for more.

You had to stay away from him. You already had your life ruined by one man. You would be damned if you let another one ruin it again.

------------------- ⛧✟⛧ --------------------

Your brain didn't get the memo. All week, your thoughts were plagued with just how well you wanted to be ruined by the priest, and they were so explicit and raw you found your aching and breathless.

The beep of the scanner pulled you of your thoughts, and you looked up to see one of the farmer's daughters running her pack of beef jerky through it.

She had told you her name, but you had forgotten, and from the look on her face, she could tell. She blew a huge bubble before popping it and clearing her throat. "You know, if your thoughts are troubling you so bad, you can go up to the church and confess. You don't have to be catholic, and you are already practically anonymous, so you have nothing to worry about."

It was the most any of the townspeople had ever said to you in one go, and she laughed as she read the confusion off your face. "Darling, whatever brought you here, it is clearly still troubling you. GO ahead and confess. You would feel a little better."

You were about to correct her when Sukuna walked in, and you nodded, wishing internally that he hadn't picked up on any of the conversation.

You did want to correct the girl, but considering the reason for your obvious troubled expression just walked in, you thought it best to keep quiet.

She glanced at Sukuna, who was in a causal black turtleneck and plain grey slacks with his collar on, and she smirked at you. "I know he is a priest and all, but if he ever wanted to tangle, I wouldn't hesitate in the slightest."

You gave her a tight smile as you finished ringing her up, and you showed her bill. She handed you a $50 bill, and as you turned to rummage for her change, you felt more than heard Sukuna walk up.

"Hello, Tiffany. Shopping for late night cravings again?" Sukuna's voice wasn't directed at you, but it might as well have been. It rumbled right through your veins and settled like liquid honey in your chest.

You weren't surprised to see Tiffany giggle, and she leaned on the counter, looking up at Sukuna with pure adoration. "You caught me." You didn't know if it was done on purpose, but Tiffany leaned in closer, her arm brushing up against Sukuna's and your hand moved without you thinking.

The slam of your hand on the counter startled everyone, including you, and you winced as both pairs of eyes turned to face you. Tiffany eyed the change you left on the table, straightening, but Sukuna's smile made your hair stand up on the nape of your neck.

He knew.

You smiled at her, clearing your throat. "Thank you for shopping with us at Larry's. Please come again soon."

Tiffany sniffed, snatching the change and bag, before turning to Sukuna with a smile. "Walk me out?"

He smirked at you, before nodding and walking out with Tiffany, and you lied to yourself that he didn't make eye contact with you over his shoulder.

But you knew what that look meant.

Come find me.

------------------- ⛧✟⛧ --------------------

You went to the confessional after work. The sign at the door said it was closing in 15 minutes, and you let out a breath of relief when you saw the sign on the booth still reading open.

The booth was cozy and comfortable as you climbed inside, and you became immediately aware of the person on the other side. You couldn't see them because of the drapes and wood, but you could smell them, and they smelt like incense and smoke.

You knew how to start, so you cleared your throat and adjusted your hands on your lap, holding onto them for comfort. "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen."

You heard shuffling, and you swallowed, removing your tongue from the roof of your mouth. While you didn't remember your childhood, this particular act was painful to go through. You couldn't remember how many times you stood outside the confessional back at home, listening to your grandmother.

"Forgive me, Father. For I have sinned. It has been too long since my last confession. I haven't been in the best of states since my grandmother died, and I have been running away from everything ever since. But, I wouldn't bore you with the sorry details of my life."

"My confession is that I am thinking of one of the priests here carnally." Immediately it left your mouth, the person in the other booth made the first sound since you had entered, and it was a short grunt.

Shame dug its way through your belly, and you cleared your throat. "I haven't been able to stop thinking about him. He exists in my thoughts and refuses to get out. I burn with desire for him. and I know it is wrong. Doesn't he belong to the Lord?"

This time, you definitely heard an exhale, and your mouth was running, and you couldn't stop. "I came here running from something, but I find him existing in my thoughts very hour. I cannot escape him, Father. What do I do?"

The priest was silent for what seemed like so long that you were about to leave when you heard him move. A scream stuck its way halfway in tour throat when the booth's door opened, and you saw SUkuna standing there.

HIs eyes were dark, and burning out of him was a wave of desire so intense you could feel it in your throat. Your words died in your throat as your eyes drifted down to see him straining through the front of his slacks and your breath left your mouth in a whoosh.

"Oh, you naughty little thing." His hands shot to grab you and they wrapped around your throat, and he yanked you forward. Your gasp didn't leave your mouth as his lips came down to brush against yours.

He squeezed, and a moan left your mouth, making him chuckle. "When I first saw you sitting at the counter of that shop, I wanted you in ruins at my feet. I didn't know you would come running to me for it, did I?"

"Sukuna, I..."

Sukuna tsked, this time squeezing hard enough that stars burst at the edges of your vision and you couldn't breathe for one heady second. "You call me Father. Nothing else."

The booth was small and he was towering over you, and his scent was crawling its way into your brain and making a home for itself in your veins that you couldn't tell where he ended and where he began.

All that existed was him.

Sukuna dropped his hand, making you inhale so fast your head started spinning. "Kneel."

You didn't think, dropping to your knees without question and his laugh sent shivers all over your spine. "Ah, you are naughty, aren't you? Not even shamed of being a slut in a place so holy? You don't care, do you?"

He tsked, wrapping his hand through your hair and tugging it back as he leaned over you. His voice came out in a dark rumble, and your chest felt tight as those eyes moved over your face. "Open your mouth."

You did, and you barely had time to think before he spat in it, and the warmth of his saliva on your tongue had your bones shaking. He smiled, his grip in your hair tightening. "Swallow."

Sukuna's eyes flared with a obscene mix of satisfaction and lust, and he grinned, patting your cheek with his free hand. "Obedient little thing, aren't you?"

"Yes, Father."

"Good girl."

You moaned, trying to nudge your pussy against his shoes when he noticed and tsked, both his hands dropping to pick you up and toss you over his shoulder.

The church halls were silent as he made his way through the hallways, heading towards the back and taking you down a flight of stairs that led straight to another level.

You were dimly aware of the sound of a door opening and closing before your back landed on the bed, and your breath slammed its way out of your chest.

He started rolling his sleeves up his arms and he grabbed a wine bottle off the table. You recognized it as the one the wine was poured out of and into the cup before communion.

"Open." Your mouth opened and he poured a healthy amount in, brushing away a few stray drops off your lips with his thumb.

"Good girl. Now, don't spill a drop."

You were confused till he yanked up your skirt and ripped off your panties with one hand and something sick bloomed in your chest when he tipped the bottle directly over your pussy.

"God bless this meal before me, Amen."

Nothing prepared you for the burn when the wine hit your pussy, but before you could scream, Sukuna dropped the bottle back on the table and dropped his mouth to your pussy.

He moaned, and the vibrations travelled through you, igniting a feeling you hadn't even known existed. His tongue slid its way through your slit, immediately finding your clit as his lips wrapped around it and sucked.

You weren't going to keep the wine in your mouth, not if he kept up with it.

"You taste divine, pet. You have no idea. Like fucking heaven." His voice was so deep that you almost couldn't make out the words he was saying, and you whimpered in response.

"Swallow and let me hear you, pet."

You did as he asked, your words tumbling out of you. "Father, please. I need more. Please."

His head lifted, and you almost whined from the loss before his hand lifted and he smacked your clit hard enough that your gasp ripped out of your mouth. "Did you just get wetter?"

He laughed, hitting you again. "Oh, you are a special kind of naughty, aren't you? You depraved little slut. If I asked you to get a piercing down here, you would, wouldn't you? You would do anything I tell you too, right?"

You nodded, your brain melting as his fingers slipped inside you as his head dipped back. The coupled effect of his hands and his mouth was making your hips lift off the bed, and shame flew out the window as you started grinding on his face.

"Good slut. Keep doing that. Keep grinding on Father's face, okay? Show me how much you want it." His groans were so loud it was obscene, and the wet sounds of his tongue and his fingers on your pussy had a fresh wave of wetness leaking out of you.

"God, please. I...You need to use your teeth. Please." You were rambling and he nipped his teeth on your clit, making your thighs lock around his head.

"You are going to have to be louder, pet. You want the nuns to know how much pleasure I am giving you, right? You want them to know what a slut you are for me. Scream louder, pet. Right now."

Nonsensical moans and whimpers were leaving your mouth, and you head was spinning so fast you couldn't keep up.

"Grinding on your priest's face like a slut. You don't care about anything but your own pleasure, right?" His head lifted off you and his second hand rubbed against your clit as the thrust of his fingers got faster.

"Come for me, pet. Now." His hand lifted and smacked your clit so hard your orgasm ripped its way through you as it hit into you like a tsuamni.

He climbed up your body, placing one of his hands on your shaking thighs as he kissed your hair softly, before brushing his lips against yours. "Go. Your sins are forgiven."

III : “Today there was just me and my guilt, and God was nowhere to be found.”

He had waited for you to calm down in his arms before he dressed you back and took you to the only coffee cafe in town. You were nervous, and you could tell he knew.

Sukuna stared at you over the top of his mug, and if you hadn't known better, you would have said the twinkle in his eyes was genuine care.

But you knew better.

He leaned over the table, pushing the mug closer to you. "You have a lot of sin to atone for, little one. Are you willing?"

The guilt was worming its way into your throat, and your mind drifted to your grandmother. She wouldn't approve. She would be rolling in her grave.

But when Sukuna's hands reached out and threaded through yours, the only thing you could focus on was the desire burning its way through the air in between the both of you, so you smiled.

"I am willing, Father."

end notes

hey hey! it is actually so nice to get back in the groove again for once. i am super pleased with the way this one came out, even if it is complelety unedited. it started looking like it would be wayy too long for everything i had planned, so i had to cut it into two. if you really want to see a conclusion, just let me know!

i don't have a schedule yet, but i do have a bangchan x gn reader pairing in the works so fingers crossed! (it is a supernatural au where bangchan is a hybrid vampire werewolf)

i was listening to red sexy by vessel while i wrote this, and it was a huge help. you can play it and reread the fic if you want a better effect.

please leave behind likes and feedback if you loved this (and give me validation please. i need it like i need crack.)

[justajsworkshop]

neville and edward are not the only people to learn from; their ways are not the right and only ways, and the law of assumption is not the only paradigm to better understand yourself, reality, and yourself as reality.

i think it's so easy to get tunnel vision since neville is the current big shot people always defer to, but there's infinite ways to experience yourself/reality. so, please, do not make this fuckin white guy from the 1900s into a god and his teachings as a whole other set of rules you need to follow.

if the bible doesn't resonate with you, even as a metaphysical text, there are plenty of other cultures and spiritual practices that have been delving into all this waaaay before jesus.

and i think it's important to recognize the harm perpetuated by the church, christianity's fucked history, and people's individual experiences with religion that might make setting aside preconceptions and prejudices more challenging (even to accept the metaphysical message outside the religious).

all this to say: do not make barriers for yourself when you are limitless. if the words "feel it real" make you want to tear your hair out, forget them. please, for the love of you, drop the shit that you feel like you have to force to get or that just isn't clicking.

start getting curious about how you experience yourself and reality. start asking yourself who you really are. start asking yourself "who do i want to be?" vs. "how do i need to be?" set an intention to receive answers in language, analogies, and ways that deeply resonate with you and that will make an instant, profound impact on you.

you do not have to force yourself to fit into an external mold, no matter how alluded it is. not all that glitters is gold because this is YOUR subjective experience of yourself. this has, always has been, and always will be a journey of self, knowing yourself as the limitless, infinite, timeless being you are.

it's doesn't matter what neville said and did if it doesn't benefit you. it doesn't matter who he was or how much his teachings have helped others. what matters is YOU. stop looking at neville, and look at you. who do you know yourself to be? who do YOU say you are?

[whyyesiamachristian]

"Christianity is a death cult"

Ok, let's unpack that.

First, let's define a cult. A cult is an organized group whose purpose is to dominate cult members through psychological manipulation and pressure strategies.  Cults are usually headed by a powerful leader who isolates members from the rest of society. (Source) Usually, their purpose is for the leader(s) to gain power, sex, or money. Christianity as a whole does not fit this definition. For one, nobody gains anything by Christians going to church on Sunday. Nobody. Just spend a little time on indeed etc., and you will see that a pastor's salary is downright laughable. And although abuse can occur, it is still considered a heinous act. Something about millstones around someone's neck and a lake. (As an aside, children can also be abused in schools; does that make you anti-education?)

Furthermore, there is no set leader, and the doctrine even varies amongst different denominations. In a cult that would not slide. Any questioning of the doctrine would not be allowed. I've multiple times been told to do my own reading and talk to God about any questions I have. There are even people who have degrees in Christian theology. Such a method of learning and obeying a text is counter to what cults would want, because then you can come to your own conclusions (Gasp. A scandal).

So, the death part. Personally, I would argue that any religion or metaphysical view of the world would not be complete without an answer to what happens after death.

"But," you say, "your reward is only promised after death. That is a classic cult tactic, so I won't trust it."

And I would agree, it is wise to be mindful about manipulation. Except that that statement isn't actually true if you take a look at the bible. We are promised an unexplainable peace in God, as well as His council and love. I would say it's pretty neat to be unconditionally loved as a child of the perfect father on this side of heaven too. And He does give good things this side of heaven and promises to take care of us. We are promised just a small taste of what life was supposed to be like.

You might be asking yourself why Christians and the bible talk so much about death, then. It's because the main doctrine, the core point of Jesus' death, was that death was defeated. By dying, Jesus declared us to be His and forgave our sins, but also faced death head-on showed that it couldn't take Him (Here is a really cool video that can explain it better than I can). We talk about death so much because it seems like such an intrinsic part of the world we live in now, that it's kind of a big deal that it has no power.

I would like to add, I am not trying to attack anyone who hold this viewpoint. I am just trying to explain from a Christian point of view why I disagree with this idea. I know a lot of people who think this have experienced some form of religious trauma, so it's not a judgement on them at all. I just want to maybe make someone ask themselves, do they think this of Christianity itself, or the evangelical culture that wronged them.

-Peace out, God loves you.

[amateurmonastic]

Why do I get up in the morning

The last time I was deeply in a Druid phase, I listened to a lot of druid podcasts. I remember an interview with a guy who was on the governing body of his druid organization and obviously very involved, very passionate about his path. I remember wishing that I could be as certain about my path as he was, that I could be as committed to Druidry (or anything). One thing in particular that he said made an impression on me: He said that he had not been particularly motivated about his job and often found it difficult to get up to go to work (something to which I can very much relate). However, once he began doing druid practices regularly, he found himself thinking, "I'm not getting up to go to work; I'm getting up to practice Druidry."

Druidry didn't stick, again, or I didn't stick with it, but that idea, that attitude, stuck in my memory. It resurfaced today when I was walking from work to my bus stop, on my way home. "What am I getting up for, if I'm a practicing Christian again?"

"To serve the Lord," part of me answered helpfully.

"Okay, but what does that mean?"

By the time I reached the bus stop, I had formulated four things I meant by "to serve the Lord":

To take care of myself, because as a human being I am a creation of God, who loves me, and I deserve proper care, I deserve to get my needs met in healthy and appropriate ways, and asceticism is not for everyone;

To go to work and do my best there, as far as I am able day-to-day with my assorted physical and mental health problems, not because "the grind" has any inherent value, but because I work for the city public library, an institution that genuinely serves the community and not any individual's greed;

To pursue my vocation as a writer, which I have always seen to be a service of the One who gave me the gift of writing ability;

And finally, most essentially, to pray and meditate, which I consider the primary work of any Christian.

About thirty years ago, I came across a short, dense, but witty book called Christian Proficiency by a priest in the Church of England, Martin Thornton. It had a peculiar abstract diagram of some kind on the cover; it would be over twenty years before I figured out that it was meant to represent positions on the field, or pitch, of a game of cricket. Originally published in the 1950s in Great Britain, it had recently been reissued by an American publisher.

In this book Thornton argues that the Christian life has a proper structure and orientation, which he calls a Rule. By that he means a plan of life like the Rule of a monastic order, only he means it for all Christians, not just priests or people in religious orders. The basic requirements of Christian life, he says, are not so much believing certain things (though that is important) or having certain opinions or even virtues, but things that a person does. The three most important things are Sunday Eucharist with a community, the Daily Office, and private prayer.

The first and last of those three probably look familiar to most Christians: Go to church, say your prayers. But what is the Daily Office? Well, it's formal prayer, like Sunday church, with set words in a book and readings from the Bible, but it's also seven days a week, not just one, and can be read or recited alone at home, or with a group of people, or during your commute if you don't drive and carry a handy book that has all the texts in it. It doesn't require a priest or pastor, only a book or two and the will to set aside the time and do it.

Pardon the cliche, but I took to the Daily Office as a duck to water. It satisfied an itch I didn't know I had. Thornton's book said, "Here, do this," and I did it. My religion stopped being a theory or a bunch of opinions and became a practice. Thornton explained that worship and prayer were the bedrock of Christian life, the thing that shapes us into the people God wants us to be and the thing that connects our lives with Christ's so that by praying with and for others, we are helping him redeem the world.

It's with Thornton's teaching in mind that I wrap up this entry so I can go to bed and, hopefully, get up tomorrow, easily, to "serve the Lord with gladness and come before his presence with a song".

[magnoliamyrrh]

i think my problem with dune and the “cultural appropriation” was that the man didn’t even get inspiration from certain languages and cultures and religions, he really just copied and pasted without changing much, if anything. isn’t one of the books literally titled ‘jihad’? and i get it’s supposed to be a good commentary on anti-imperialism and the time in which it was written, but it always trips me up to see straight up arabic and certain aspects of islam unchanged and prominent in the books without having been altered to fit a more sci-fi narrative.

i can totally get that, because yes, its not just influence, its v heavily based. dune tho is an interesting case in this bc isnt just a,, wholly parallel and different world to ours as in many stories whose using real life infleunce; it takes place in our universe, but thousands of years in the future. humanity invented AI and high technology which got out of hand, and a huge revolt and war happened. at the end of this war, all computers and "thinking ai" were destroyed and there was imposed a ban on their creation. thus, in dune religion, ritual, and culture are very important and hold a lot of weight and infleunce, and everything mostly runs on this, and human "supernatural" abilities - even when they use ships and such, they are controlled by humans which have trained and ingested high amounts of spice (basically space lsd, and the thing that the planet arrakis is being imperialized and exploited for) which has mutated them, and which control the ships w mind powers, and use their minds to bend time and space for travel. instead of computers to hold databases, trained people hold on to memories and history. this is why dune too is not a "classical scifi" and it is somewhere... in between almost like a.. medieval setting, but in space? bc technology in the classical sense no longer exists, and unlike in the vast majority of scifi, religion, tradition, belief in god, abilities like mind reading etc etc is very important

so, in dune islamic words and concepts are used not just as infleunce or inspiration, but bc thats what islam has become thousands upon thousands of years in the future - and i think particularly shia islam. it has over all this time changed and also been blended with other religions; islam is not the only one around which exists in our world (and theres some new ones too). for example there is catholicism, and catholicism has been adopted into the "orange catholic bible" which is one of the most important religious texts in dune - this religious text isnt just catholic, but rather it is a blend of many if not most earth human religions which existed, and which became widely known after the war faught against AI. so, bc of that, several concepts and words are used straight from many of the religions that currently exist, even tho theyve changed in this future - new-islam is a promiment infleunce in particular however across the universe. idk theres many examples but another too of another nonislamic infleunce would be the bene gessarit religious sect which is shady af and very powerful, based on jesuits and catholic nuns, and which use the term "reverend mother" as is used now. other words such as "massiah" are used too, and pauls relationship w his mother is paralleled to an extend to jesus and the virgin mary

and on the use of arabic; it has itself survived in dune, not just certain words. not another invented sci-fi language like it in infleunce, but the arabic we have which has changed over thousands of years (i think from what i remember its actually an arabic-farsi combo). the ppl on arrakis, not in the movie but in the books, speak a local and unique form of future-arabic, in which words such as jihad, sunna, etc etc still exist with semi-similar meanings

but also. yea youre right, and i can understand how thatd be jarring. bc no (aside from argument on the use of word jihad and broader islam to send a anti-colonial message), its not just loose influence or inspiration, its actual forms of islam and real world religions re-imagined in a thousands of years in the future scenario; and while in some regards all these religions have not only blended together but changed, as has new-space-islam itself, space-islam (sounds silly lol) is the most prominent one in the book, and it has held on to a lot of the actual essence of (from what i know particularly shia) islam. and i can see how that could be something which comes w certain issues or is uncomfortable or weird

[tipsycad147]

Offerings to Gods and Ancestors: Paganism Basics

posted by : kitty fields

What is the point in giving offerings to the gods and ancestors? The tradition of giving offerings dates back to prehistoric times. We see this practice in the Bible and ancient holy texts, as well as through evidence in archaeology, cave paintings, and tombs. Our ancestors thought giving offerings to gods and goddesses would gain their favor and keep misfortune at bay. Today, people give offerings in a variety of places where religious rites are performed.

Should Pagans Give Regular Offerings to Gods and Ancestors?

As a pagan, you might wonder whether you should give offerings to gods and ancestors. This should actually be a part of your tradition on a regular basis. To give an offering to a god or ancestor is like making an exchange or a deal. “I’m giving you this in exchange for that.” On the contrast, you can also give an offering to thank the god or ancestor for their support. Think of it like this, if someone you loved gave you a thoughtful gift just to say thank you, how would you feel? Wouldn’t you be grateful and more wont to bestow gifts upon that person, too? It’s the same thing with offerings to gods and ancestors – think of them as gifts.

Applying the 5 Love Languages to Relationship with Deity

I think of my relationships with my gods as friendships, partnerships and sometimes even familial or romantic. YES, I said it. So when we think about how we treat the ones closest to us, we should apply that process to our connection with deity. Even using the 5 Love Languages will help you understand how to treat a close spirit. Through services, words of affirmation, gifts, quality time, and physical touch.

Services: doing something in honor of your deity. For example, volunteering at an animal rescue for an animal that is sacred to your god/goddess (i.e. Odin – wolf rescue)

Words of Affirmation: this is as simple as praying or talking to your deity on a regular basis and telling them how awesome you think they are (yes, even the gods like to hear it)

Gifts: OFFERINGS, which we are detailing below

Quality time: spending time in meditation, trance, and in dreamtime reaching out to your deity. Listening to their messages and paying attention to their signs. Also communicating via divination like tarot, runes, etc.

Physical touch: No. I don’t necessarily mean you’re getting “physical” with your deity, unless that’s your thing. I mean dancing to honor your god, dressing in a certain way to honor your deity, basically honoring them with your body in some sacred way (whatever that might be)

Offerings to gods can include anything of beauty from nature.

What Do I Offer My God or Goddess?

Many people get confused on what offerings to give their gods, goddesses, and ancestors. This isn’t difficult and should be a fun part of your pagan practice. The key to giving good offerings to gods is to simply be mindful of what you are offering. Some gods and goddesses have preferred offerings. Look up your god or goddess online + offerings and I’m sure you’ll find some great suggestions.

Ideas of offerings to gods and goddesses:

Incense – research what type of incense your god or goddess would like the most.

Bowl of herbs or flower petals – research what type of herb/flowers your god or goddess might like then leave it on your altar.

Foods – certain types of foods can be used as offerings to your gods. These can be left on your altar or set aside on your dinner table.

Drink – a bowl of water or some other form of beverage associated with your god can be left on your altar.

Candles – you can dedicate a certain candle’s flame to the energy of your god or goddess.

Song – sing a special song or play a special song dedicated in your god/goddess name.

Poetry – if you love to write, write a poem or story for your god or goddess

Stones – offerings to gods of stone and crystal are also appropriate. Some deities are linked to stones…if you’re unsure, look it up!

Dance – ecstatic dance is one of the best ways to commune with your god or goddess, sacred dance honors them and allows them to speak and act through you

As you can see, there is no limit to what you can offer your god or goddess. First research what your god or goddess would prefer before giving an offering. But, if you don’t have a special kind of incense or you can’t afford that particular offering, give what you can. The gods aren’t jerks (mostly) and will understand if you give an offering with a pure heart. Keep in mind, don’t give offerings to gods that you wouldn’t enjoy receiving as a gift yourself!

After months of study and connection with Berchta, I had enough information to write a long article on her. Following my post, I realized something – this article all about her true nature and beauty was more of an honor to her than any physical offering. Why? Because it put her name out to the masses and taught those who might be searching for her about her origins, folklore, history, associations, and qualities. Things people might not find anywhere else on the web. Things that only come through a personal relationship with the Divine. 

The Written Word as Offerings to Gods

When I found my goddess, or rather when she found me, there wasn’t a lot of information about her on the web or in books. Berchta was one of those obscure, nearly forgotten German goddesses from the past whose name mostly survives in nightmarish, European winter folklore. A few people had written their thoughts and experiences about Berchta on their websites, but it wasn’t enough for me. I wanted to know everything about her. 

After months of study and connection with Berchta, I had enough information to write a long article on her. Following my post, I realized something – this article all about her true nature and beauty was more of an honor to her than any physical offering. Why? Because it put her name out to the masses and taught those who might be searching for her about her origins, folklore, history, associations, and qualities. Things people might not find anywhere else on the web. Things that only come through a personal relationship with the Divine. 

Creating a Sacred Symbol

For my artwork offering, dedicated to Berchta, I was inspired by her sacred symbols. Berchta carries a ring with keys on her belt – the keys to the cycles of life and to the other realms. I drew a ring with keys and then turned the ring into a spinning wheel, because Berchta is a spinner of fate (similar to the Norns and Fates). Runes sacred to Berchta make up the keys, which are decorated in sacred evergreen foliage. You can create a sacred symbol for your deities and ancestors, as well.

Examples of Deities and Appropriate Offerings

Aphrodite Roses, Perfume, Myrtle

Osiris Cedar, Dates, Myrrh.

Brigid Red Clover, Poetry, Candles.

Cernunnos Acorns, Coins, Evergreens.

Odin Wine, Mead, Pork

Cliodhna Mead Hagstones, Song.

Berchta Fish, Bread, Porridge

Ancestors Flowers, Tobacco, Family Recipes

What About Ancestor Offerings?

Ancestors are a bit different from the gods and goddesses as far as the types of offerings. Our ancestors make up our bloodline, so therefore we should put extra thought into the offerings to ancestors. If you have an ancestor altar or shrine of some kind, it’s best to leave their offerings on their altar. But always do what feels most appropriate to you.

What Did Your Ancestors Enjoy While Alive?

If you are giving an offering to an ancestor that you knew in life, think about what that person liked while they were alive. For example, maybe it was your grandfather and you know that he smoked cigars. You can offer a cigar or a bit of tobacco. Or maybe it was your great aunt and she loved tulips, a vase of tulips is perfect for her. Maybe your great grandmother loved caramel candies, leave a few of these on the altar for her.

The options are endless and it is really about being mindful and thoughtful of what you are leaving as offerings. Artistic offerings are always appreciated by the ancestors: poetry, song, paintings, sketches, etc. I also believe when we put time and effort into our family tree, this is a form of offering as it brings your ancestors’ memories to life. Telling stories about your ancestors and keeping their memory alive is the highest form of flattery.

Offerings to Ancient Ancestors

If you didn’t know your ancestor while they were alive, and let’s say you are giving an offering to your ancient ancestors, think about their heritage. Think about where they lived and what was common as far as foods back then. Perhaps a bowl of milk or slice of bread might be appropriate for those who lived in Europe in Medieval times. Or maybe leaving a bit of dried plant matter or herbs that were common in those times. For example, red clover for Irish ancestors, Elder berries for English ancestors, etc. Learn more about ancient ancestors and how to connect with them here. 

Leave your offerings to gods and ancestors on separate altars.

How Do I Dispose of Used Offerings to Gods?

Many people want to know what they’re supposed to do with the offerings to gods and ancestors once sufficient time has passed. This is an easy enough question to answer. Do what you feel is best. However, it seems somewhat disrespectful to throw away certain things.

Here’s some tips on how to dispose of offerings in appropriate ways:

Food – if it was vegetable or fruit matter, throw it in the compost or throw it outside for the birds and wild animals to eat. The gods and ancestors would be appreciative of such a gesture. Trash it, if no other option.

Water/Wine/Liquid – can be poured as a libation outside on the ground. Don’t drink it after it’s been sitting out. Can be poured down the drain if no other option.

Dried herbs, teas and plant material – again, can be given back to nature or used in the compost.

Trinkets, jewelry, knick-knacks – you can keep these on your ancestors’ or gods’ altars and switch them out with the seasons (see section below on seasonal offerings).

Crystal and stone offerings – I tend to reuse my crystals and stones, even if they’ve been placed on my deity or ancestor altar. Once I feel they’re no longer needed for that spirit, I’ll cleanse it well and reuse it in some other way – in spells, rituals, or as offerings again

Seasonal Pagan Offerings and Conclusion

You might find that as the seasons pass you will get the urge to change your altar decorations. This can also include seasonal offerings to the gods and ancestors. For instance, if the summer solstice is on its way, you might want to take down your Spring décor (eggs, rabbits, etc) to make room for summer décor. This can include switching out plants, flowers, bowls of dried herbs and stones all dedicated to the gods and ancestors.

Seasonal Offerings to Gods and Your Altar

Often when I clean and reorganize my altar, I am thinking of what the gods associated with the coming season would enjoy. This typically includes different stones, dried flower petals and herbs, and even boughs or branches of evergreen trees. Depending on what gods you work with or what branch of paganism you follow, this will influence how you set up your altar and whether or not you change your offerings and altar décor with the seasons.

Be Mindful and Experiment

The choice is ultimately up to you what you want to offer to your gods and ancestors. The key to giving the best offerings is to simply be mindful and intentional of what you are giving. You wouldn’t invite an honored guest over for dinner and throw out a bowl of two-day-old leftovers, would you? So treat your gods and ancestors with just as much respect, if not more. Think about what you are giving them and whether or not they would really enjoy it if they were sitting across from you at your dinner table. While I’m sure most of the gods and ancestors are just happy to be recognized after years of being ignored, we still want to be respectful, polite, and thoughtful.

[crdenhart]

Religious Reflections - Luke 14:25-35

May 29th, 2023

I received my Certificate in Theology this past year from Sewanee: The University of the South. I also have had a life-long fascination with religion and have incorporated religious and spiritual themes into my film work, particularly more recently in my award-winning film Sister. I have looked for ways to extend my religious work output and realized an occasional (or regular) reflection on religious texts and other spiritual works would be in order. I plan to use this medium to share insights and knowledge gained from the scriptures and some positive guidance for others on a spiritual journey!

Today’s Gospel reading in the Book of Common Prayer is Luke 14:25-35. This is the text of that passage from the New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVue), which is my preferred translation of the Bible:

(25) Now large crowds were traveling with him, and he turned and said to them, (26) “Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple. (27) Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. (28) For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it? (29) Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it will begin to ridicule him, (30) saying, ‘This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.’ (31) Or what king, going out to wage war against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one who comes against him with twenty thousand? (32) If he cannot, then while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for the terms of peace. (33) So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions. (34) “Salt is good, but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored? (35) It is useful neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; they throw it away. If you have ears to hear, then hear!”

ANALYSIS:

When Jesus says that one must “hate” his or her family and life itself in order to follow him, “hate” in this context more so means “not to prefer.” In the Aramaic version of this verse, the words “put aside” are used instead of “hate,” which is more fitting. The idea that Jesus expresses here is that one should place God ahead of everything else. One should value his or her family and his or her own existence dearly, but God comes before anything or anyone else. “Carrying the cross” means that one should be willing to do whatever God commands even if it means laying down his or her life for Him. He or she also must be willing to give up material things that block his or her ability to be one with God.

This passage also emphasizes the importance of only starting something that one knows he or she can finish. Personal success or failure ultimately comes down to an individual’s estimation of effort. If one is able to start something but unable to continue or finish it, it is a sign of a lack of control, and people frown upon this flaw. It is important to set the goals one wants to achieve before moving forward with the work. With goals in place, one can set a plan of action to achieve those objectives given the resources he or she has and understand what he or she must acquire in order to achieve them if anything is lacking in the estimation of effort. One should not start a fight or engage in a conflict that he or she is not certain he or she can win. If one knows that they will lose a conflict, it is best that he or she find alternatives to solve the problem.

The section about salt points out how it is important to be rid of things that have no use or have lost their value. This analogy can apply to material objects such as outdated equipment or expired food but also can apply to people. If one’s friend has fallen out with him or her beyond repair or no longer provides positive value to his or her life, then it may be best to cut that individual out of one’s life or else these “friends” will be a burden and will waste one’s valuable time and emotional energy.

CALL TO ACTION:

My call to action from this biblical passage to those looking to better themselves would be to find ways to put aside other things to have time dedicated to spiritual development. Set a time each day to pray, meditate, read sacred scriptures, go for a reflective walk, write in a spiritual journal, watch a religious film, nature hike, and/or do any activity that can bring you closer to God and realize the divine messages He has for you and put them into effect. Also, keep the Sabbath Day holy and focus that day on worship and spiritual-centered activities. If you have activities scheduled for the Sabbath Day, be sure to fit in time for worship ahead of anything else you do.

Another call to action is to finish projects you have started that you have neglected to complete. For example, a room that you started to repaint that you have left undone, a piece of furniture that you started to put together that you did not finish and just takes up space in your living room, or a creative project you gave up on. Complete these projects in order to complete the cycle of action, and by completing things, you will realize your ability to control things in the universe and achieve greater and greater goals.

Yet another important call to action is to rid yourself of the people and things that hold no positive value to you. There likely is junk or trash in your house that takes up space that you can easily get rid of, but “junk” people could be more of a challenge. Negative people, especially so-called “friends” who just want to take advantage of you or put you down for their own gain, suck up your positive energy and limit your full potential to achieve your goals. These relationships can only cause harm to your state of being and should be cut off as swiftly yet peacefully as possible. “Junk” people do not necessarily have to be just negative people though. They also can be the people who are distractions to you from bettering yourself or spending time that could be utilized more productively. For example, a friend invites you to play video games multiple times a week when the time should be spent on a work project or with family. This type of relationship does not necessarily need to be cut off completely but should be toned down to allow you space to develop more important relationships and get important tasks done to achieve your goals. It also would be wise to examine your friendships to see which friends you do not positively contribute to and find ways you can strengthen your relationships with them and repair where there is “one-sidedness” in the relationship.  With the “junk” people out of your life, you can devote more time to the friends who truly matter and have more time to devote to God and live to your fullest potential.

[robot-roadtrip-rants]

From my understanding, the Tanakh (Jewish Bible) and the Old Testament are the same texts, albeit in a slightly different order. The differences come from the translation and the interpretation.

Setting aside religion for a moment, translation has always been a complicated art (and it is an art). To top it off, the Tanakh/Old Testament is a very, very old text, written in a long-dead language at a time when people lived radically different lives. There are words we can't translate definitively, there is context that can easily fly over our heads. Take, for example, the word tsa'arat, a disease described in Leviticus. Except we can't translate it as a specific disease, because the text gives multiple sets of symptoms which match multiple types of skin conditions. Alright, tsa'arat can't be translated as Disease X, but surely we can translate it to "skin disease," right? BZZT! The word is also applied to discolorations of clothing or housing (mold?). How are you supposed to translate this word?? And this is a relatively simple translation problem. Even if we don't have an English word that exactly matches tsa'arat, the detailed descriptions of the condition(s) make it easy for us to wrap our minds around it. But once you get into the more poetic, fantastical, and outright trippy sections, Shit Gets Weird and questions marks start popping up all over the place. Any scholar or translator of the text will tell you this, regardless of their religious background.

Then we get to the different interpretations, and, well, that's when things get really crazy. One of the other threads on this post mentioned that Christians interpret Lamentations as a tragic necessity on the path to Christ. It was mind-boggling, even outrageous to read that as a Jew. Lamentation is a shattering text of grief in Judaism, being the definitive depiction of HaGalut, the Exile. But once I got past the shock and thought about Christian theology and its sacred history...yeah, I can see it. Not for me--Lamentations-as-shattering-grief is very important to me for personal reasons--but I'm not the intended audience. Christians are. If Lamentations-as-a-stepping-stone-to-Christ gives meaning to them, by all means, you do you funky plus sign people.

quick question for the other jews out there, do you ever get irritated whenever you see the phrase "Old Testament God" used to describe something/someone as cruel, judgemental, severe, etc.? or is it just me?

[krsonmar]

I just realized something that needs to be remedied: Guillermo doesn't have gear. He has his cool vampire-killing getup with the vest and the gloves and whatnot--because practically speaking, you just cannot slaughter an undead horde in the same outfit you've been cleaning the house in (at least not intentionally, although having him have to unexpectedly fend off an invasion of the house siege-style in a sweater and cleaning apron with some plastic gloves would be awesome too)--but he doesn't have an arsenal. He doesn't even have a sweet ride; there's no Batmobile or Mystery Machine, I mean do the vampires even own a car, or is he renting one whenever he needs one?

Although as another quick tangent, I'd suggest the most nondescript, boringly mundane vehicle ever for him because it's all he can afford and maintain. He needs a deep burgundy-red 1990s-era Chrysler minivan and he likes to keep scribbled-on mix CDs that he makes for the ancient sound system. One is a mix of battle music--and yes, it includes Dragula by Rob Zombie and maybe some mid-2000s My Chemical Romance, because we all know the little weirdo makes up fight playlists for himself for fun--and another of stuff that makes him think about Nandor because of course Guillermo himself has a Nandermo playlist.

Basically, he really can't have some sweet ride, practically speaking, because Sean and Charmaine, dumb as they are, and the rest of the neighborhood, will notice if he has a hearse with red LED undercarriage lights always blaring Rob Zombie parked outside, that just draws too much attention, so if he has a slayermobile it needs to be as lame as possible. This just means he needs an arsenal all the more. He needs to be able to have cool toys when there's about to be a big boss fight so we can have a gearing-up-and-hyping-up montage set to AC/DC or something. Here are my ideas:

The minivan has a rosary hanging from the mirror. Everyone thinks it's a regular "don't fly faster than your guardian angel can drive" kind of thing, which is the point; in reality, it's a good way to disguise his car's vampire-proofing system.

He also tried making mix CDs of gospel and Christian contemporary music he can blare out the window of the van with a speaker to scatter crowds or chase them out of the way for a quick getaway. Anything that keeps talking about either God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit or quoting scripture works, but it can’t be any of those songs that sound like they’re about a dating relationship so they’ll get radio play but turn out to secretly be about Jesus, because metaphors don’t irritate vamps enough, you have to directly invoke a specific religious belief or ritual or they won’t start smoking out the ears at all. Beyond this, Guillermo started off trying to figure out the rules of what counts and effectively makes the formerly-living squirm, but he was having to listen to a lot of bad music to figure it out and The Newsboys were actually starting to grow on him, which was annoying, so he simplified the idea and just bought a full CD set at a garage sale of the audiobook version of The Bible as read by James Earl Jones. This works reliably, but just for the flair, right before a big fight, he makes his entrance with an old-school boombox from Goodwill on his shoulder, which causes his soon-to-be-victims to laugh until he hits play on the God's Property cassette loaded into it and starts strafing left and right, stakes flying from under his coat as the vampires writhe and moan to Stomp.

About once a week, he sets aside time to make more wooden stakes and is always scavenging wood for them: "oh hey, lemme see that broken broomstick you're throwing out", "oh golly I wonder if anyone will miss this wooden doorstop wedged in here", ect., ect.. Turns out the Chamber of Curiosities library has whatever texts on vampire-slaying it can house with the reasonable expectation that reading a given text won't kill the reader (it's counter-intelligence, "know thy enemy" stuff), so Guillermo discovers that while any wooden stake will suffice, some woods are better suited to specific purposes, and he develops this odd habit of being good at identifying what kind of wood something is made of.

He’s started growing bulbs of garlic in a corner of the basement. Sometimes instead of using one clove at a time, he’ll just chuck a whole bulb at once like a grenade so that when it hits the ground it bursts open and the cluster of attempted vampire assassins surrounding it hiss in pain as they disintegrate into dust. He just has to be careful not to try to bite off the top leafy part before he throws it like he’s pulling out the pin on a grenade because that tastes gross.

These are mostly kinda lame but I saved the best for last. Every action hero needs their signature weapon. Guillermo’s is a SuperSoaker. He bought the biggest, most mondo-looking SuperSoaker available and modded it to accept soda bottles as extra "cartridges" of ammo, gets water-cooler-sized jugs of holy water that he picks up from a shady priest who doesn't ask questions, and uses that to fill up the SuperSoaker and soda bottles so that once he's blasted a bunch of bloodsuckers until his MaxiSplasher 5000 or whatever runs out of juice, he can screw in a fresh soda bottle of sanctified H2O and keep going. This is his Excalibur, and I am proud of myself for coming up with it.

[dwellordream]

“..In a sense, Mary’s attitude towards those who would not accept her ideas on religion is the central question of her whole life. She was blamed at the time, and sometimes still is, for not producing a child after she had wickedly married a ‘Spaniard’, but the real damage to her reputation comes from the burning of nearly 300 Protestants during her short reign. To being too old and increasingly ugly is added the charge that she was a religious fanatic and bigot, and in thrall to two foreign powers, Spain and Rome, which did not have the ‘true’, Protestant, interests of the English at heart. But even leaving these common stereotypes aside, a real problem remains. How did Mary come to back a campaign against individuals which led to their publicly enduring a horrible death? Mary had, after all, been known in her youth not only as beautiful to look at but also as possessed of an idealistic and ‘pure’ Christian humanist, religious nature. These ideas were strongly opposed to the religious and secular violence which was then tearing Europe apart. 

At the centre of her religious life, Mary had a deep devotion to Christ both in His personal sufferings, as recorded in the Bible, and as He was present to her in the consecrated bread of the Eucharist, which she kept constantly by her as a focus for prayer and contemplation, in the form of the reserved or exposed sacrament. She fully shared the intense attachment to the saving sufferings of Jesus, in particular His trial and Crucifixion, which had been a central theme of Christian belief and practice all over western and central Europe up to and including her own lifetime. This core belief and attachment affected people who ended up on both sides of the Catholic–Protestant divide which was hardening during her reign. 

There was in fact no real conflict among Europe’s rulers and religious leaders over the centrality of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. His sufferings were described in agonizing detail in the Gospels, interpreted in the rest of the New Testament, and re-enacted in the traditional liturgies of the Church, especially during Holy Week, which had flourished in England, as elsewhere, up to Henry VIII’s reign, and which had been gradually restored when Mary became Queen. One might suppose that this form of religious devotion, together with ideas from predominantly pacifist Christian humanism with its intimate involvement in Christ’s suffering, would have led to compassion, rather than violence, in royal policy towards those who had followed Thomas Cranmer and his allies in their interpretation of the Gospel, and of what Christ did on the cross. Why was this not the case? 

In recent years it has been suggested that the hermetically sealed denominational narratives – Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed, Anabaptist – of those who died for their faith in the sixteenth century need to be treated as equivalent, without ignoring or downgrading the particular religious feeling and emphasis which underlay their suffering and death. Henry VIII had over thirty English men and women, some with a Catholic and some a Protestant orientation, executed for religious offences, the former category, with the exception of Friar John Forest, being convicted of treason, and the latter burned as lapsed heretics. Mary in effect added adherents of Cranmer’s reforms to the list of potential victims, which seems to be the right word to use in this context. 

In her time, religious knowledge among the general population, and not just the educated elite, whether lay or clerical, was amazingly extensive and sophisticated by twenty-first-century standards. People generally thought they knew very well how a good person should die, and what the death of a bad Christian or ‘heretic’ should be like. Yet there is ample evidence, not least from foreign ambassadors’ reports and from John Foxe’s Actes and monuments (‘Book of martyrs’), that people in the crowds which witnessed the burnings of heretics in Mary’s reign were also very sure who was a martyr and who was not, though they might differ in their views of each individual case. Words like ‘martyr’ and ‘heretic’ are slippery, though, and need to be looked at more closely

Put simply, ‘martyr’ is a version of the Greek for ‘witness’. In the first three or four Christian centuries, when followers of Jesus’s ‘Way’, as members of the Church, had been persecuted by ‘pagan’ authorities, ‘martyr’ was used to describe those brave or foolhardy individuals who died a horrible death for their faith, often in public arenas. Both concepts – witnessing for one’s faith, even to death, and the violent and cruel form of that death – had become fully part of the religious life and the procedures of the Church long before Mary’s time. ‘Heresy’, also a Greek word by origin, meant ‘choice’, but had come to mean, in the religious context, ‘wrong choice’. To it had become attached a set of unsavoury concepts involving anti-social behaviour and disease. ‘Wrong’ religion was thus an infection which had to be cauterized or cut out of the individual and of society. Those among sixteenth-century scholars who, like their medieval predecessors, engaged in the generally harmful and misleading practice of dredging for appealing texts in the Bible and taking them out of their contexts, could easily develop ideas about ‘sheep’ (Christians) who became diseased and infected the rest of the flock (the Church). 

By Philip and Mary’s time, such people were commonly dealt with by an ‘Inquisition’. This word, from the Latin inquisitio, was used to mean a legal inquiry, and from the thirteenth century it began to be applied to heresy. Specalized tribunals of churchmen, with papal authority, operated in some parts of Europe, notably Spain and, from 1542, Rome, to identify and try heretics. By 1500, a complex set of laws and procedures had evolved to deal with such cases and it was accepted that although the Church itself, through its clergy and lay officers, could not shed blood, lapsed heretics, in particular, could and should be handed over to secular authorities, who would administer the death penalty, usually by means of fire. This would purge church and society of their sin and, according to the prevailing Augustinian theology, send their souls to eternal damnation, as indicated by Jesus in Matthew’s Gospel (25: 46).

Without awareness of all this, it is impossible to explain Mary’s readiness to adopt such methods in 1554–5, and persist with them until her death. In the summer of 1553, she had at least appeared to outsiders to be willing to allow the reformed services of the 1552 Book of Common Prayer to continue, if only for a time, alongside the beginnings of the restoration of Catholic worship. It is commonly understood that, to begin with, she and her closest advisers, especially Gardiner and Bonner, thought that if they took the reforming leaders out of circulation, notably Bishops Cranmer, Latimer, Ridley and Hooper, their followers would quickly return to the old faith. It soon emerged, however, that this approach would not work, and even though the kingdom was still technically in schism from Rome, the Queen and her advisers chose the traditional remedy of an Inquisition. The problem was that the old English heresy laws, which were part of statute not canon law, had been removed in the previous reign.”

- John Edwards, “Battle for England’s Soul.” in Mary I

[draconicfaenerd]

Obey Me Theory: In Which God is an Asshole and Solomon Might be a Good Guy?

Okay, here’s the deal. I have way too much time on my hands at the moment and was suddenly struck with inspiration, so I decided to cook up a little theory of my own.

Well, not so little. I’ve been writing this over the last few days, and this turned into something bigger than I was expecting.

Alright, here we go.

One of the great mysteries of this game: who the fuck wrote the whole Tale of the Seven Lords series? I mean, it foreshadows so much of the game’s plot twists that it’s absolutely insane! My initial thought was that Barbatos wrote it, especially since he’s the one who has a bunch of time travel/timeline powers that are, frankly, quite frightening. However, this theory leaves one gaping plot hole: how does Simeon know what’s gonna happen in the upcoming volume? Even Mammon and Satan take note of the fact that they have no idea why Simeon would know something like that. Who besides Barbatos could possibly have the power to see the future? Given this game’s penchant for foreshadowing, this is undoubtedly an important question we need to ask ourselves.

And I’d like to make you think about something as you answer that question.

While we know a fair bit about Barbatos’s power, we know practically nothing about the angels’ powers. Surely it doesn’t make sense that the demons have access to this wild reality-bending power that the angels don’t. Unless they actually do. How is this possible? Well, I turn to my knowledge of Christianity for this part of the theory.

According to many people’s interpretation of Judaism and Christianity, God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing entity. He knows anything and everything that has happened, is happening, and can/will happen in the future. Additionally, He can set everything up so that events happen according to His plan. Pretty difficult to go up against, right? Now, granted, we don’t know a lot about the game’s interpretation of God (yet); there are enough twists on Biblical canon that it is difficult to determine what direction this is going to go in. However, I do expect that God is supposed to be a ridiculously powerful character in-game; maybe as powerful as (or even more so than) Barbatos.

Side note: However, he is not all-powerful, and here’s how I know: he wasn’t able to just erase Lilith. Yes, I’m sure he was powerful enough to kill her, but not so powerful that he could just kill her immediately free of consequences.

But more on this later; now back to my original point. God is the author of TSL. Or, at the very least, is the divine inspiration behind it (where one of the angels or a specifically chosen human is the one to transcribe it). This explains why an angel such as Simeon would have knowledge of the upcoming plot. Another piece of evidence to back up my point: exposure to divinity. One point that pops up a few times in the Bible is the idea that anyone/anything who comes too close to God’s presence directly will perish. A couple of examples of this are the burning bush that Moses faces and the Ark of the Covenant which the Israelites are forbidden to touch. Now, you may be wondering what these examples have to do with Obey Me. The answer is simple: the TSL soundtrack. Remember why Lucifer was so interested in this soundtrack in the first place?

First off, a scene where the Lord of Corruption places a curse on the heroes? I have a few thoughts on that, but I’ll get to that in a little bit. What I’d like to focus on is the mysterious composer and the people who die surrounding the soundtrack. Lucifer tells us on our final night in the Devildom that the record isn’t actually cursed:

But. Well. I don’t trust that. He’s (probably) not purposefully lying to us, but I don’t think this can be a coincidence. I think that TSL was divinely inspired (along with its soundtrack) and for some reason, this particular soundtrack was too much for ordinary humans to handle (we know that MC isn’t ordinary because of their amount of hidden power that has been discussed; more on that later.) 

So I’d like to bring up something else. Propaganda.

God has already spread copious amounts of propaganda about the brothers. Why do I say this? Well, I’m going off the assumption that the human world MC comes from is pretty similar to the human world that all of you readers (and me, obviously) live in. Why does this matter? Religious texts. There’s no denying that Judaism/Christian and their respective texts have greatly influenced the course of world history. Which means, in canon, those same texts no doubt exist in the Human Realm. Now, assuming they were “divinely inspired” (another assumption, but one that seems to make sense to me), a plethora of lies were told. First of all, many of these texts paint Lucifer (the Morningstar) as: the original Fallen Angel, The Devil, the Prince of Hell, and the reason why Sin and Death entered the world (meaning he was the one who tempted Eve). In Obey Me canon, Lucifer was the leader of the rebellion, yes, but he is very different from how he would be painted in Biblical texts. First of all, the Devildom was around for a very long time before the Fall (leading to questions on the true power of the realms, but more on that later). Furthermore, Diavolo and the Demon King are more of what we consider to be “the Devil”; sketchy motives aside (which I’ve discussed in other posts), they are the ones that have the final say in the Devildom’s affairs. Not Lucifer. Yes, the brothers might hold the titles and responsibilities of being the “Seven Rulers of Hell,” but ultimately their will is overridden by Diavolo’s. Additionally, I’d like to talk about that last point: sin and death. In the Bible, Lucifer brought sin and death into the world by tempting Eve to eat the fruit from the forbidden tree. However, in Obey Me canon, we know this is not the case; death existed long before the Fall. We know this because Lilith’s human lover was going to die, hence why she fed him forbidden food from the Celestial Realm. Then, God was going to have her erased and ultimately sparked the Rebellion against Him.

So. We know that God is plenty willing to pin plenty of shit on Lucifer. But other than causing an abnormal amount of daddy issues, what does this have to do with anything? Well, remember how I noted earlier with the TSL soundtrack that it was supposed to be used in a scene where the Lord of Corruption placed a curse on the heroes? Well, the Lord of Corruption represents Lucifer. So, given the game’s penchant for foreshadowing, it seems like Lucifer is going to place a curse on the heroes (forgive me for making yet another assumption, but I interpret MC and the brothers as the heroes). Given Lucifer’s love for his family (and later MC), this doesn’t really make any sense. My initial thought was that the whole attic debacle was the curse, but that doesn’t really make sense either. But. Remember what I just said about God pinning shit on Lucifer. What if God is the one planning to put a curse on the heroes? Just think about that for a bit, let it sink in.

Now, why would God place a curse on the heroes? We know that He and the angels were able to defeat the brothers before, so they could do so again if the need ever arose, right? And why place a curse on MC, an ordinary human?

Well, not-so-ordinary human.

Remember why Asmo made a pact with MC in the first place? Solomon talks to us about how everyone has magical power within them, and it manifests itself in some, but not in others (this is already suspicious as fuck to me that a power as strong as MC’s wouldn’t manifest itself, but our in-game knowledge of magic is vague enough that I’m not really gonna dance around that right now). Anyways, MC gets stuck with Mammon, Beel, and Levi in the underground labyrinth again, and they summon Asmo and draw out even more power than Solomon can. Pretty strange, right? Belphegor also alludes to MC’s great power with his whole “you have the power to control demons” speech.

So basically we have this incredible power. And, if I’m on the right track here, then we’re a threat to God. As I explain here, Lilith is the reason we were chosen for the exchange program in the first place. Additionally, when you meet her as you’re dying and you reply to her and ask her what she’s doing, she says this:

So… there’s a lot going on in her whole dialogue. Really. There’s so much to dissect. And frankly, I don’t think I can dissect it all. So for now, I’m going to focus on the snippets that stood out to me. “I’ve been waiting for so long, you see. I’ve been waiting for you to come find me.” Um, what? First of all, Lilith’s spirit has been around for several thousands of years, right? Granted, the Obey Me timeline isn’t super clear, but still. Even if Lilith has been waiting around for MC ever since their birth, MC is however old the player is (probably late teens or in their twenties since that’s the demographic the game is geared towards); but even if MC is supposed to be way older than that, their lifespan is a very short time compared to Lilith’s existence. Unless. Unless Lilith has been waiting for longer than MC is supposed to be alive. Unless Lilith knew that someone as powerful as MC would come into existence and… do whatever it is Lilith wants us to do. Still not completely sure about that. (Also take note that Lilith never tells us herself that MC is her descendant; make of that what you will).

Also, she says that she’s worried about all her brothers and tells us to “save them” and that she’ll “lend us her powers.” So at first, I thought she was worried about them emotionally, and that she wanted us to save them by serving as emotional support for them. But we didn’t need her for our consciousness to transfer, and Barbatos took care of our alternate self. So what did we need her power boost for? The answer: something that’s coming up in the future. What exactly? I’m not completely sure. But, I do know that Solomon has an idea of what it is, based on the text conversation with him right after leaving the Devildom.

Now, is it possible Solomon knows because of his pact with Barbatos? Yes, it absolutely is. I know that I’ve said time and time again that Solomon’s pact with Barbatos is going to prove to be crucial in future chapters, and I still firmly believe that. However, if something is happening on the Celestial Realm side of things, Solomon has a connection there which would allow him to know the goings-on.

So for those of you who grew up in religious families, you probably remember a little bit about King Solomon; the “man after God’s own heart” (different translations may say something slightly different, but that’s the version most of us probably heard) who, when he had the chance to ask for one gift from God, chose to ask for wisdom. Now, many clues in-game point to show that there’s a good chance that this Solomon is supposed to be that very same guy. Such clues include his mystical powers and his many pacts, particularly his pact with Asmodeus. Now, remember when Solomon told us near the beginning of the game about the Ring of Wisdom he received? He never tells us about the mystery person who gave it to him, but I personally think he received it from God; since in Biblical canon God “gave him wisdom.” Additionally, remember how he talked about getting drunk off its power at first? That piece of information coincides with my earlier point about how exposure to divinity is difficult for humans to handle.

Also, remember that Solomon is a VERY big fan of TSL. (Enough to impress Levi, and enough that he has that super-rare pendant of the Lord of Corruption’s wing). So, given that God is probably the one behind the creation of this series, it stands to reason that his connection to God has something to do with this.

Additionally, while on the topic of Solomon, there is yet another chat (the one that he sends you on your birthday) that shows that he seems to be well aware of something that you, the player, are not:

As I’ve said before, this game really loves its foreshadowing. So, we’re definitely gonna have to save Solomon at some point: now, I know I’ve called him shady many times before, and he really truly is. But.

Maybe he’s not nearly as evil as I originally thought. He has helped us before, but it’s admittedly difficult to pin down his motives. However, if saving him is going to be necessary to the plot, then Solmare probably isn’t gonna make us rescue a bad guy. Emphasis on probably.

Also… he says “first birthday here in the Devildom”... which leads me to believe that MC will have many, many birthdays with the brothers to come in the future. So. Now that I’ve talked about Solomon, I’d like to talk about Luke.

He sends you a chat that opens up some pretty good insight into the whole situation:

Now, we know that Luke is pretty fond of MC, and we’re led to believe that Simeon cares about MC too; however, this whole “charm that attracts both demons and angels alike” doesn’t sit quite right with me. Now, yes, both the in-game angels care about MC, but that doesn’t seem to quite cover Luke’s statement. But what if… There are other angels that have taken an interest in MC? And I don’t mean romantically, I mean… what if one or more of them know about our power? As I said before, Lilith gave us a power boost for something that’s coming up in the future. Something big. And if MC truly has a special sort of charm that attracts demons and angels alike, they could prove to be very dangerous if, say, there were to be another power struggle between realms. But what does this all have to do with Luke anyways? Remember who Luke works for? Michael. Yes, that’s right, the Archangel Michael. Probably the most powerful angel in all of the Celestial Realm. What does this have to do with anything? Well, after the exchange program ends, the higher-ranked angels (including Michael) are no doubt going to want reports of everything that happened during the exchange program… including information about MC. And really, who better to ask that information from than someone as utterly devoted to Michael himself as we’ve seen Luke is?

And if this is the case… Michael will probably hand all of that information right over to God. Given how the Obey Me God seems to be, this is not good news for MC or the brothers.

Now. Just because we can’t trust God doesn’t mean we should go blindly trusting Diavolo and Barbatos either. In fact, @phairfantooooom does a phenomenal job here explaining just how sketchy and terrifying they really are. Maybe I’ll have more of my own comments to add later if the mood strikes me, but for now I’m gonna leave it at that.

One final word: MC is being used as a pawn in a grander game between the realms for which they have no idea how to play, but they better figure it out fast.

Or maybe, just maybe, I’m losing my mind during quarantine and I really just want the sexy, shady sorcerer to not be a bad guy.

We’ll see. So... what do you all make of this? I’d love to hear your thoughts.

[adarkrainbow]

Meta-fictional explanations aside, this logic could work if in universe the texts of the fairytales are considered as important as religious texts. The very description of these improbable books becomes the norm if for example fairytales are, in these fictional Middle-Ages, the equivalent of the Bible.

Just a few days ago I reblogged on my side-blog this post about an illustrated, precious, gem-incrusted gospel book. It is just the most recent example I can get my hands onto, but when it comes to religious texts, there's tons of volumes which aren't even the full Bible, just one book of it or one set of texts, and yet are filled with rich illustrations that take entire pages, and tons of illuminations, and always with covers of the most precious materials. Because these were the sacred texts, you know, so having an EXTRA-DE-GOLD-WITH-GEM-EXTRA edition of them, with illustrations from THE innest, trendiest illumination workshop of the decade was what any lord who wanted to look good (and make himself feel good) needed. Even if they couldn't read. The jewels and the beautiful drawings made the job.

Also, we can imagine that the texts contained within these books isn't the original, short material, but rather a textual version of the Disney take on the tales - which immediately requires much more pages to explain what every character is about and what everybody is doing.

I don't want to be that person to point faults in logic in Disney movies, but...

I absolutely love Disney Storybook openings and they do wonders setting the tone of the films they are in.

But if you think long enough, they don't make much sense.

Fairy tales are usually very short stories. Some are from ten to fifteen paragraphs long.

Who would dedicate a entire delicately ornated book to just one fairy tale?

Snow White alone came from a collection of hundreds of them. Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty came from a collection of at least half a dozen.

It gets worse when the book appears to be from middle ages, with pages that look like a illuminated manuscript.

During the Middle Ages, who would dedicate so much craft and artistry to just one single short story? A story that has no deep religious or other practical reasons to exist?

Is there any Watsonian explanation for this?

@ariel-seagull-wings @princesssarisa @adarkrainbow

[edge-lorde]

the religion of the galactic horde

“You seem reluctant to help me. But I only wish to use your weapon to bring peace to the darkest corners of the universe. (Glimmer: Peace? If you activate the Heart of Etheria, there will be no one left.) Yes. No war, no pain. Old worlds swept aside, a new beginning for the universe.” --Horde Prime explaining his motivations to Glimmer

the horde in shera was definitely inspired by Christianity and uses a lot of its imagery, the most iconic being the baptism scene. it certainly gives off the vibes of a christian or christian adjacent cult, but what is its actual doctrine? i have some thoughts about that. 

first here are what i consider to be the 3 main differences between real christianity and the horde: 

Their jesus didn't ascend to heaven. He's still with them.

They don't have a larger creator god. They worship horde prime like he is a living god but they don't believe that he created the universe.

They have no focus on the afterlife

this is going to be long.

before i begin heres the sparknotes version of christianity for anyone not familiar. I am not evangelizing this, just think of it as LORE. 

Once upon a time there was a guy named Jesus. He was the son of the one true god, who both created everything in the universe, is everywhere and knows everything, and controls the afterlife. Jesus is god born as a mortal person, sent by god to teach all of humanity the errors of their evil ways so they can repent and go to the good afterlife when they die. There're two afterlives, a good one and a bad one, heaven is the good one and its run by god and his army of angels, which are divine beings that god can send to earth to do things. The bad one is called hell. 

Anyway, in his time on earth jesus was the only person ever to never do anything bad ever (called sin). He tried to teach people how to be good but was Too Good for this Cruel World and was killed. 3 days later he came back from the dead, proving his divinity. Some time after that however, he ascended into heaven without dying, telling his followers to spread the word because hes going to be coming back. Christians today are still awaiting his return. In the meantime, christians follow his teachings left behind in holy texts. 

The crux of christianity is to get to heaven when you die, and this can only be done by following the teachings of jesus christ, believing in god, and believing that jesus was the son of god. Its a given that everyone will do bad things at some point in their lives so you're supposed to pray to god and ask for forgiveness regularly and if you really mean it then god will forgive you. 

thats the basics. 

to my first main point from above, if we posit that horde prime is the jesus equivalent of the horde religion, because hes treated as a living god, his goal is to spread his philosophy throughout the universe, then in the horde religions jesus never ascended into heaven. this would be like if jesus in our world rose from the dead and just picked up where he left off, and never died after that and was alive today. that would be pretty good proof of divinity. 

to my 2nd point, theres nothing in the show that suggests that horde prime thinks that he created the universe. this means that he did not get his divinity from anywhere but inside himself, hes not claiming that hes the rightful ruler of the known universe for any other reason besides his ideas are the best. 

the 3rd point is that the show does show horde prime or the horde caring one bit about the afterlife, save for one line from wrong hordak.

"Brother, I hope you, too, are full of only love for Horde Prime and have no crippling doubt eating at your soul."

meaning that they have the concept of the soul. which is very interesting and ill get to it, but on the whole the hordes focus seems to be on the here and now. this is a huge departure from christianity because chrisitanity is all about getting to the afterlife. that is the reason that christians are supposed to follow christ and recruit as many people as possible to do the same, because if they dont, they or other people will supposedly go to hell when they die. i say supposedly because at funerals, even if the person who died wasnt a believer, in my experience no christian would ever ever ever insinuate that someone went to hell. 

but the difference still stands. following real christian ideology is supposed to have benefits for the individual in the afterlife, while in the horde religion salvation seems to only be found by submitting to prime in this life and being either a tool that he can use to further his goal of purifying the universe or by letting him remove you from it. 

on top of all that, horde prime has the hive mind, which he uses to control the thoughts of all his followers. this means that theres no room for a bible study, no need of a holy text at all in fact, and no room for interpretation. horde prime delivers orders to your brain directly and can tell if you think anything out of line. real Christianity does have the idea that a sin that you just think about doing is as bad as actually doing it, but in the horde these thoughts can be easily discovered and punished. 

the horde religion seems to me to be a strangely secular version of christianity with only the bad parts remaining; the control, the blind faith, the certainty that you are right and everyone else is wrong, the not questioning authority. with none of the good aspects like community, and good deeds. it is a cult in the truest sense of the word, a religion that begins and ends with one person only, that person being horde prime.

so, if you take horde prime out of the equation, what, if anything, would be left? 

i find the plight of the horde clones here to be the most interesting. we know that they do have thoughts about their religion, as it was hordaks belief that he could earn his way back into horde primes god graces that kept him going all those years in despondos, and wrong hordak is distraught when he discovers that horde prime lied about krytis. 

unlike both the chipped people we see in the show and real religious converts, the clones were born into this cult that values blind obedience only, and have no prior ideology or cultural identity to fall back on when they are taken out of it. 

so to answer this question, i must add some conjecture to horde primes backstory and how the clones see themselves in horde primes universe. I already wrote up a brief backstory idea for horde prime/the clones and have it posted on here somewhere. I'm not going to dig it up but you could probably find it in the #horde prime tag on my blog if you dig hard enough. 

To summarize it though, I have it as horde prime was once a regular (bad) dude who became a cult leader under the premise of preaching peace --> he becomes disillusioned with people and even his own followers because he doesn't actually like people, he likes manipulating them. --> this and the power of being a cult leader go to his head and he starts to think that he is the only person in existence capable of living a moral life and everyone else needs to be saved from themselves, the world would be a better place if he could just make everyone's decisions for them. --> he somehow gets a hold of the technology needed to set up the hive mind, be it by inventing it himself, stealing it, finding it, or being gifted it. 

I'll pause here to address the theory that horde prime was originally an eldritch being that simply possessed a dude who would become the template for the clones. I think there's enough stuff in the show that this is a valid read and might even be canon but i don't really care for it. For me, what makes horde prime a compelling villain is that he's a very human evil, so having him actually be an evil demon thing instead of a really bad but believable dude who got near ultimate power weakens his character. BUT, i’m not going to address it in my comic so i'll leave it open as to whether he's got that going on or not. If he is, the clones don’t know about it and neither they nor the other characters have any way of discovering it. IF he is though, it would happen here. I could see it being a cool idea for him to get the hive mind from the eldritch being that would then possess him and haunt his lineage for time immemorial as a deal with the devil sort of thing, but he has to be a bad person before that.

Anyway he gets the hive mind--> he gets all of his followers to chip themselves --> gets those people to chip everyone else on his home planet --> use his planet wide army to harvest all resources on the planet and build his first space fleet and take to the skies and start his conquest--> realize that if he is to succeed hes going to need to both become immortal and find a steady source of new followers because chipped people die eventually and he doesnt care about people enough to figure out a way to keep a self sufficient population of followers alive, he just wants people around to adore him and do his bidding--> invents his cloning system-->

and heres the big one,

his original body has to die so he can upload his consciousness into a new clone.  

and THAT, to the clones, would be the moment that horde prime becomes a god.

his reliance on the hive mind and vast network of followers are what give him his godly abilities, but just as the horde clones could not exist without being cloned from horde prime, so too could horde prime not exist as he does in the show without them. 

i see it as both a christlike sacrifice and a cyclical system of debt and sacrifice. horde prime dies for our sins, so that he might continue to purify the universe so that there will be no more death and more clones will be born, while the clone hes possessing has to essentially die by giving himself up entirely to become the new prime so all this can happen too, and to repay primes death. not all clones can become the next prime however, but all must be ready to die for him, hence horde prime having clone infantries despite also having robots he could send instead. 

i dont have clear thoughts about what the green goo is, but horde primes words about his brothers lending him their life force go along with this idea. the clones give him theyre life force, so he can give it back to them.

another interesting aspect of this is that prime always portrays himself as a brother to his followers, never a father as christ is portrayed as in christianity. i know this is from hordak and horde prime being actual brothers in the 80s show but ive seen this trope come up a few times in media before, where a man raises a kid but has them call him their brother instead of dad. it seems so deliberate. because a parents job is to take care of you, but a sibling, might take care of you sure, but thats not their job. its like hes deliberately trying to place himself on the same level as his ‘sibling’ so he can demand the same amount of respect you would give to a parent without taking on the responsibility to not... ya know... screw them over in the head? idk it seems very slimy to me. but that says more about prime as a character than how the clones see him.

and we still have the concept of the soul to fit in here somehow, and do they have an afterlife? im going to say no to the afterlife. theres just not enough in the show to go off of and everything that we do know about horde prime points to him only caring about himself in life. HOWEVER, there is nothing more quintessentially christian than the concept of hell and i think that will be of use here. 

since the creation of the clones is tied with the creation of their religion, this would put the clones themselves less as allegories of people who need to be saved and more as the horde version of angels. in my telling here, horde prime views all people who do not submit to his will as net negatives to the universe who have to be removed for peace to exist, so by this view the chipped people are the saved, the people that horde prime kills are the sinners, and his military campaign is one long apocalypse slowly working its way through the universe, with the clones carrying out his righteous judgement. but the afterlife isnt involved in this, so even if some chipped people are left alive, eventually they will all die out, and then it will be just horde prime and is clones in a perfect, peaceful starless sky, and thats what heaven is. 

getting to heaven is the main goal of real christianity and it is the same in horde religion, but heaven isnt a place in the horde cosmology, its a physical goal that has to be created. not all clones will make it to heaven of course, because most will die before they reach total destruction of the universe but the clones arent supposed to think of themselves as individuals anyway. they have to be willing to die for horde prime and die for the cause or be cast out and thats hell. 

i dont see prime as someone who would kill his own followers outright too often even though he could. plus they arent supposed to value their individual lives the same way normal people do anyway it doesnt seem like a real punishment, they need something worse than simple death to fear. so by my view hell for the clones is separation from prime. it can be in life or death. no matter how bad it is in the horde being on the outside of it has to seem worse, and thats where the concept of the soul comes in. when one is a part of the hive mine, their soul is with prime. they are not supposed to have a will or any thoughts beyond love for prime, its essentially the same as not having a soul but they think of it as being at peace. being cast out is to be never at peace and would be told to them as being the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone because it corrupts the soul. 

“a lot of unpleasant things happen in the horde so just imagine how terrible it must be outside of it! you cant because i protect you from that. now get in the goo, this is for your own good” - horde prime probably 

this is why outsiders are so resistant to submitting to primes light and also why its ok to kill them, in the hordes view. 

so, to start wrapping thigs up, there is no horde without horde prime. the religion starts and ends with him. because he is supposed to be the only person ever to be able to make true moral and just decisions, without him is followers cant take any actions without worrying that they are going against primes will. since they have no holy text they cant extrapolate and try to figure it out either. its up in the air whether or not they are going to find a way to get the horde to make the jump from cult to regular religion.

its late i got to go to bed now

[quillquiver]

Alex’s Big Nerdy Destiel Canon Rant

I love talking about canon: what it is, what gets to be part of canon, etc. so I want to add my two cents to all the discourse! To my mind, yeah, literary theory uses the word ‘canon’ to describe the complete text (including subtext), but like... that definition isn’t necessarily useful in a fannish context, and it’s certainly not useful in the Destiel fandom.

Just hear me out: even deciding what is part of SPN canon text-wise is a mine-field. Are we counting what Jensen and Misha have said at cons? Are we counting tweets? What about the series of SPN tie-in books that exist? If all these things are paratext, and we’re really only looking at what has been said on the show that’s cool, but I suspect that many people have differing opinions on what SPN canon even consists of! And this makes a lot of sense: the show has been around for 15 years, and the fandom is composed of a whole bunch of people whose ideas about canon, even coming into the fandom, are probably pretty different. Plus, we’re an online fandom, so things are de-centralized and it’s wayyyy harder to even agree on or establish a definition of what the actual, canonical source text even consists of. 

Setting that aside, language has also always evolved to suit the needs of the community using it. Queer culture, for example, re-appropriates, reclaims and creates new terms all the time (that then may get picked up in mainstream media, where the meaning may change yet again!). Because fandoms can sometimes drastically differ in terms of language usage, I can’t speak to other fandoms besides the ones I’m in. But! By my reckoning, Destiel fandom took the word canon, (which in a perfect world refers to a single, total, indisputable source text, subtext included), and changed its meaning. In the linguistics world, this is called a semantic change! We’ve largely removed ‘subtext’ from one of the things we consider canon, because that doesn’t suit our purposes - due to the really fraught history between SPN creators and DeanCas fans, canon for us has come to mean something different. But more on that later.

At this point, I know a lot of people are gonna argue with me. BUT THAT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE THERE’S AN AGENDA! LANGUAGE IS OBJECTIVE! IT’S A TOOL! To which I say: language has never ever been objective, because people aren’t objective. If you think that language does not exist to serve a purpose, consider the assimilation of Indigenous peoples through the use of English. Or the fact that the Ancient Greeks used to describe colour differently than we do, because that served them better. Language always exists so we can better communicate and understand each other, and policing it has always been a form of subjugation, whether that be through the policing of what language or dialect you are/are not allowed to speak, or how to speak it. One of my profs loved to remind us that grammar is classist - as long as we can understand each other, how something is spelled really shouldn’t matter. 

But back to SPN. We as a general fandom have a really unique relationship to our content producers. We always have. It’s the reason we’re the go-to case study when fan studies scholars want to look at the fan/producer relationship in western media fandom. Destiel fandom? An even more fraught relationship, because for a very long time, the producers did not consider Destiel as part of the canon of their own show. If they had, we wouldn’t be having this conversation! But the first time SPNs narrative even deigned entertain the idea of Destiel as existing seriously and explicitly in the narrative, it was during their 200th episode, and it was a “you have your interpretation, we have ours”, which super invalidates the mocking hell they put us through beforehand. The fact that DeanCas fans have been condescended to and queerbaited for so long means that, largely, we’ve decided that DeanCas canon cannot and does not include subtext... even though, yes, the existence of Destiel romantic subtext technically means the ship is, was and has always been canon (i.e. part of the complete episodic source text). After being told you’re delusional, you’re wrong, you’re crazy for so many years, the idea of a canon DeanCas became entwined with the idea of explicit, incontrovertible romantic text in the show, because it’s not only about Dean and Cas... it’s about the recognition that our reading is also correct. That we were right all along.

People will argue with me here, but don’t misunderstand me: I’m not saying that fandom needs approval or validation from the creators - we really, really don’t. Whatever we see in any show is canon just by virtue of it being there, and so is a valid reading, and that is definitely enough. But SPN is nothing if not the exception to almost every rule, because context: 12 years of being told you’re insane by the people in the diver’s seat, and 15 years of having this on-and-off fraught relationship with creators in a way that had previously never happened. SPN fans are close to the writers and producers and actors in a way that very few other shows are, and we have been for a long-ass time. The writer’s room is an authority, for sure, but they’re also like a group of fans we're constantly at odds with, and that means we treat them like we would other fans. We discuss, we ask questions, we argue. And yeah, the mentality of fighting over ownership of the narrative is one that is very early 2000s, but considering that’s when the show started, it’s not a surprise that it never really left us. In other words: because of our closeness to TPTB and our history with them, there’s a desire for recognition and validation (vindication?) that is unique, but nonetheless there and important.

Back to canon. In the literary world, canon is used to describe a complete text (which again, people have a hard time agreeing on what that even consists of), but it’s also used to describe a complete body of literature. For example, you often hear literary scholars talking about “British literary canon”. Here, canon is used as a way of organizing the most important, worthwhile works of a community, and so is also used as a tool of exclusion and subjugation. Canon excludes people, like BIPOC and women writers, to serve the most powerful culture’s interests - it has a very specific purpose. In this same way, I’ve seen people using their own definitions of canon to invalidate the feelings, experiences and definitions of other fans. For example, there have been a couple posts floating around saying that we absolutely and in no uncertain terms need to use the canonical definition of literary theory (one single, subtext-included source text to rule them all) and I have an issue with that because first of all, not everyone knows literary theory, and second of all... why? Canon is and always has been a polysemic term - it has multiple meanings. The OG example of this is religious canon: it eventually stabilized, but like, I’m Greek Orthodox, and my bible does not look the same as that of a Catholic Christian. But to hear both sides talk, they each have the real canon. So canon can mean something different depending on who you’re talking to, even when you’re talking about the same thing. The important thing is that whatever a community decides is canon, that’s it. That’s what canon becomes. 

But what if your community doesn’t have one single definition, because canon means something slightly different to everyone? Well, that’s also fine! Because again, language is only there to allow us to understand each other. If we’ve all been talking about canon and largely understanding one another for the past 12 years, that means we actually never had to have these kinds of conversations, because we largely agreed that subtext was not canon, and destiel never really left the subtext. But we just had Castiel confess his love to Dean (still reeling from that), and so the minutiae of what constitutes canon (a kiss, a hand-hold, a love confession) is suddenly pertinent and important - because we’re all on the same side, but we all have slightly different ideas regarding the details, and who the heck knows what we’re gonna get in the finale, if we even get anything. So we’re all talking and yelling at each other, all trying to say my very specific definition is the right one because xyz when in reality... all of us are right. 

Believe it or not, this discourse about what the minutiae of canon is, is actually how we come to a more specific definition. That takes years, and will be infinitely more difficult in a community that is so de-centralized and whose members are always changing, but it’ll eventually happen. Maybe. For now, though: your definition? That’s the right one for you. 

Do not let anyone shame you for thinking Destiel was already canon, or not thinking it is by the end, or insisting their definition is the best, right and only one. Canon is a polysemic term, and that means your reading is in there. But that also means everyone else’s is, too. 

[ready-to-obeyme]

[OM!] How I think Obey Me could end (Theory)

Whether this stays a shitpost or becomes a real prediction is up to time and the devs

This is a prediction made after finishing CH 22 and glancing at some dialogue from CH 23 (so there will be some spoilers of what I know from CH 23) and to PREFACE because this fandom has a lot of-- um, drama, this is my opinion and a fun theory so if you do not agree, please delete it from your mind ty!!

Also, this is just a theory, so honestly if this doesn’t happen in the game, I’m totally okay with it; I would never demand the game to cater to my will. If this DOES end up happening in the game………. lol that’s neato 

Without further ado, this is my take on what’s going to go down in Obey Me and how Obey Me could end (among other theories and observations that come with it). did this end up as an essay? maybe

Taking into account:

the recurring (if not main) theme of family in Obey Me

the ambiguous nature of the Celestial War

the fact that many angels still look up to Lucifer (and the other brothers), including Michael, who in the Bible was said to have sent Lucifer down to hell 

CH 23 that lets us into the Celestial Realm and do who knows what else (maybe meet Michael???) 

and Diavolo’s main plan to unite the three realms together in harmony (also the main reason why you’re in Devildom in the first place)

I have no other choice but to conclude that the Obey Me! climax will occur after you fight god (maybe not literally but wouldn’t THAT be LIT) and choose a demon boy to marry/live your life out. 

(And if you almost start Celestial War II and cause the apocalypse because of it-- I mean, all is fair in love n war.)

Asides from the fact that I simply would like to see a scene where MC literally confronts the creator of the world (or at least ⅔ of it)... Considering that your role as the MC has been to reconcile the relationships between the brothers and encourage open communication between them, I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch to imagine that your next task as a human ambassador and family therapist is to mend the relationship between the demon brothers and their angelic brothers and father (aka God). 

Maybe adding God into the game as a possible character you speak to is forbidden territory considering… y’know, God, but in CH 23 Lucifer and the demon brothers still refer to God as their father, which is true to the story but also oddly humanizing. Whether this is just a title or not, it’s compelling to think that like all the other demons and angelic figures that are idolized in religious texts, God could be just another character-- the father-figure that you must confront so that the demon and angel brothers can have closure after the Celestial War and successfully fulfill Diavolo’s dreams to unite the three realms.

And this is why I think so:

Miscommunication and lack of communication have been a problems that MC has had to resolve among the brothers, and this relationship between the angels and demons as well as the angels with God is lookin’ to draw more and more parallels. Like, why are the angels so on the down-low about their concern for Lucifer and his brothers? Why is Lucifer so convinced that all the angels would rather have nothing to do with him (besides self-deprecation) but everyone else knows that angels like Michael still love him as much as he did before the war? 

And most importantly, what HAPPENED during the Celestial War? Was it the angels’ choice to oppose Lucifer and his brothers? Do the angels know why Lucifer incited the rebellion in the first place-- and is that why they are reluctant to scorn their fallen brothers? 

In various unlocked texts, Simeon considers Lucifer to be his brother still, as do many of the other angels who ask for Lucifer’s well being. Taking into account that this is FIVE THOUSAND YEARS (or so) after the Celestial War, the fact that Lucifer, their fallen brother, is still on their minds is not something to simply brush past. While I am unsure whether all angels still consider Lucifer their brother, the ambiguity of how the angels-- how the Celestial Realm as a whole feels about the Celestial War and its outcome is something that I hope we delve into and hopefully resolve as MC travels to the Celestial Realm and Diavolo pushes onward with his goals, using you as a conduit. I'm thinking the reason why the angels do not have a unified front on how they feel about the War is because their father isn't sure and has not decreed their fallen brothers to be particularly "bad." This helps with the success and good reception of the exchange program. 

Coming to my last point, in order for Diavolo to unite the three realms in harmony, he must have assent from each of the worlds. I am assuming he’s taking your word for the human realm (lmao) and following that line of thought, someone high up in the celestial realm-- perhaps God even, has agreed to work towards the goal of unification and set up this exchange program. If that’s the case, then it seems like God IS willing to reconcile with his fallen sons, given the fact that the angels are still able to view Lucifer in a good light and the existence of this exchange program. (I correlate unification with equality, and being considered equals is the requirement for proper peace and harmony.)

Not that it’ll be EASY. You can’t just decide to give the green light for an exchange program in hopes of uniting the three realms because you want to repair your relationship with your sons whom YOU banished from your home and killed one of their sisters-- all very traumatizing experiences that have wounded the demons brothers and have never been truly addressed. A true apology must be said and amends must be made for the relationship to be set on a proper path of mending-- which is where MC will play the main role.

When the momentous and magnitude of gods, angels, and demons are condensed into family problems, MC is literally the One For the Job. 

Is it blasphemous for a mortal to solve the problems of immortals? Maybe. Is it possible MC will die? Honestly, not their first time facing near death-- and if they haven’t died (permanently) yet, there’s a good chance they PROBABLY won’t die while confronting God and the angels. (Who knew family therapists could live a life of such danger?)

When tensions rise, when the MC has finally unlocked all the secrets, the traumatic memories, and the feelings of those involved, it is then when MC will finally be able to speak to God and basically be like “...bro you gotta just talk to them.” And when God asks you why you’re so determined to do something about this other worldly problem, you tell him simply because you’re in love with one of them (yay!). 

Will their relationships be mended? It’ll take a lot of time-- time that you won’t be ALIVE for, but you will be the catalyst that will start the mending of their relationships--- which will allow for the unification of all the realms. :))

(This is also based off of no evidence whatsoever, but it would be nice if God knew Diavolo reincarnated Lilith as a human and thus grants the demon brother of your choice to be reincarnated as a human so he can live the rest of his life with you-- as mortals. Wouldn’t that just be absolutely romantic (and easier for God and the brothers to mend their relationship)? I’m REALLY hoping that MC doesn’t end up immortal, but it’d be nice to see that because the three realms are united it won’t matter whether MC ends up an angel or a demon after death because they’d still get to spend the rest of their eternity with the demon bro they love. And isn’t that just what we all want in the end??)

If you’ve gotten this far, thanks for reading!! I just enjoy the game and all the possibilities we can imagine using it as a foundation :)) Would love to know what you think of everything and this lowkey shitpost. <3