#even if he doesn't actively call himself that he's still never shown romantic interest in anyone in the main series

[wereh0gz]

Everyone can headcanon whatever they want but if you say sonic is straight and/or cis you're just plain wrong that boy is queer as hell

[chronicbeans]

Romantic Yandere Lucifer x Reader Headcanons

I've been tossing this idea around in my brain for days lol.

TW: Yandere Behavior, Obsessive and Possessive Thoughts, Panic and Anxiety, Depression, Blood and Injuries, Denial, Overprotective Behavior

• When he first met you, it was when he visited the Hazbin Hotel upon Charlie's request. You were sitting at the table with the rest of the staff and guests, acting the most... Well, normal out of all of them, besides Husk. You smiles and waved his way once Charlie mentioned your name.

• It wasn't like those fairy tales, where it is love at first sight. No, he had to talk to you, of course. After everybody else introduced themselves to him, you walk over to him, shake his hand, and introduce yourself. "Hello, your majesty! My name's (Y/N)! It's nice to meet you!" That's when he falls for you. Throughout the small conversation you both have, you treat him like... well, a normal person. Or, at least, as normal as you can treat the King of Hell, himself.

• The moment he leaves and returns home, he feels extremely guilty for falling for you. Especially since it was so quick, and for such a simple reason. He barely knows you! Why can't he stop thinking about you? He silently vows to never go back to the hotel, not because he doesn't support Charlie, but because he's scared of falling for you even more. However... Calling Charlie and asking about the Hazbin Hotel doesn't sound too bad, yes?

• Soon, asking about the hotel turns to asking about the people there... which, in turn, means asking about you. How have you been doing? Have you shown any interest in the activities and workshops at the hotel? What interests do you have. Of course, Lucifer asks the same questions about everybody else, to not seem suspicious, but he's mostly just interested in you...

• He only falls even more as he hears about you. Lucifer hates himself for it. So, he begins to distance himself, again. He goes back to making his rubber ducks, trying to distract himself from his thoughts about you. However, over time, his ducks slowly began having features that remind him of you. You like drawing? Duckie with a pencil and paper. Singing? Duckie that plays music. His mind can't escape you.

• Once the exterminators show, and the fight with Adam commences, he sees you again. Not in the best condition, either. The dust settles, Niffty absolutely brutalizes Adam, and now everybody is looking for you and Alastor. As Lucifer wanders the area in a frantic search for you, he happens to notice a battered hand sticking out from underneath some rubble. Moving it out of the way, he's now in a panic as he realizes it's you. You're alive, thankfully, albeit heavily injured and hanging on by a thread. That, and passed out.

• The next few minutes are spent with him becoming way too protective over you, holding you in his arms and becoming extremely defensive. His obsessive crush has finally reached more twisted levels, and he's mortified by the thought of letting you out of his sight. Even Charlie is starting to catch on that something is not quite... right about her dad. He's holding you tightly and not letting anybody come near you, despite the fact that you clearly need help. Then again, his angelic powers could probably be used to help you heal, but the point still stands. The only person who's allowed to come close is Charlie, and even then, he's keeping a close eye.

• He's now by your side constantly while you're recovering. He almost lost you! It's a very sudden change in his behavior, considering how he bottled up all of his feelings for you for so long... Nobody even knew he cared about you in specific, much less this much. Whenever you wake up in your bed, staring at the hotel, he's the first person you see. Whenever you fall asleep, he's the last thing you see. He's there throughout the entirety of the day, acting much more like your caregiver than your friend's dad. Bringing you food, getting you water, getting you some blankets and pillows... He's even taking care of changing your bloodied bandages out for new ones.

• At first, you just assumed that he was worried and wanted to help you recover. It'd make sense. You almost died, after all. The behavior doesn't stop after you're fully recovered, though... in fact, it gets worse, somehow. He makes sure that you aren't in danger, be it real or perceived. Somebody who he doesn't know talking to you is just as big of a threat in his eyes as somebody pointing a gun at your face. He's immediately standing by your side, glaring the stranger down.

• He may not be that intimidating, but he's the King of Hell. Many people know how strong he is, even if they don't find him to actually be intimidating to look at. So, they back off, usually. Those who don't get a brief look at his demon form, before getting knocked out. No, no... He doesn't kill them. He can't kill anybody when you are around. He'll wait until later.

• He's a yandere that would never cross any physical boundaries with you. He's spent years isolating himself from people, so as sad as it is to say, he's pretty used to not getting any sort of affection. He doesn't need compliments, hugs, or cuddles ( at least, that's what he tells himself). However, if and when you start showing affection towards him, he's going to need it constantly. He needs reassurance, comfort, a shoulder to cry on, somebody to give affection to... And you are now the only person he feels he's able to do so, with.

• He's going to want to own your soul, so be on the lookout for any tricks he might pull. Well, it's more correct to say he doesn't want to own your soul, but feels like he must. He doesn't like the idea of being in a relationship with such an intense power dynamic, but he's so frightened by the idea that Heaven might take you away, that he feels that he simply must own your soul. He feels that, if he does, it's less likely you'd even be able to go to Heaven, since you're technically owned by him. And he knows he's never going up. Even you just mentioning Heaven throws him into a panic... Don't say that word, alright?

[shippingmyworld]

Hi there!

I read that one and really liked your headcanon about Danny and his relationships with his exs and wondered if you had any for JimmyTimmy? I know you're more a tigerghost blog so it's okay if you don't!

It's so funny that I have that reputation since I've only been active in the fandom for like a few months.

But actually I do have a few! I was playing with the idea of expanding this into an actual fic at some point, but if you're curious I included the main points below the cut.

I like to hc that Jimmy's never actually been in a relationship or even kissed anyone before. I know his implied love interest in canon is Cindy (I don't recall if they actually get together in canon or if there was anyone else he showed interest in), but I always saw them more as rivals that end up begrudgingly becoming friends over the years. I also believe that Jimmy would know he's demi-sexual and homo-romantic from a very early age. It just never comes up in conversation because he simply shuts down any conversation about romance by saying he doesn't find the person his friends are talking about attractive (Cindy starts a betting pool with the others because she's picked up on the fact that Jimmy is basically gay but everyone else thinks he's ace).

While Jimmy's love life is rather drama-free for most of his adolescence and early teen years, Timmy on the other hand experiences the equivalent of seven different disney channel tween rom-com movies. He's caught up in the fantasy he's created of Trixie, and his affection will bounce between her and Cindy depending on which girl has shown more attention in the last few days. He'll often annoy Jimmy with his elaborate plans on how he intends to ask one of them out. Occasionally he'll also spend an entire afternoon on an inter-dimensional video call about how annoying Tootie has been lately and what her latest scheme had been to win Timmy's affection.

Jimmy meanwhile has realized he has feeling for Timmy, but locks them away because he believes Timmy is straight. He's honestly just content that Timmy reaches out to him as often as he does and that they're able to still spend time together. He also never points out that what Tootie is doing to Timmy is the exact same thing that Timmy is doing to Trixie and Cindy.

Right before they enter high school, Timmy will read the signals wrong and ask Cindy to go steady with him, but Cindy will politely turn him down and say she'd rather they just be friends. Completely crushed, he'll double down in his attempt to woo Trixie and pull out all the stops, putting on this extremely cringey and embarrassing performance to ask her to be his girlfriend (he got the idea from Cosmo). She'll just straight up laughs in his face and will stomp on his heart, leaving him to be the laughing stock of the school. When Tootie comes and tries to comfort him, Timmy will snap and yell at her, saying all sorts of hurtful things to her face and making her cry.

High school starts, and Timmy finds himself a complete social outcast. No one want to be associated with him after the stunt he pulled to ask out Trixie (even Chester and AJ don't want to spend time with him). Timmy then starts spending more time in Jimmy's universe, annoying Jimmy by randomly showing up inside his lab. Jimmy's annoyed at first, but realizes that Timmy's just lonely and lets him stick around. Timmy eventually makes himself at home (he sets up base in a small corner of the lab that is basically his area that Jimmy doesn't interfere with), and will say something to Jimmy along the lines of "I'm really glad you're apart of my life." Which just kills Jimmy a little bit because he knows that Timmy means it platonically.

After a few months of teen melodrama and some advice from Jimmy, Timmy will approach Tootie with the intent of apologizing to her. He finds her is eating alone in the lunch room at school and just spits out the apology point blank. It will take some time, but the two will reconcile and become friendly with each other, but Tootie will still harbor feelings for Timmy.

Meanwhile, for plot reasons, Remy will transfer to Timmy's school. Timmy expects that Remy is going to make his life hell, but a few weeks pass and Remy seems to actually be avoiding Timmy. It's messing with Timmy's head. He can't have his guard up the entire time at school, Remy was always more of a threat than Mr. Crocker ever was. So during one of the school's pep rally's, Timmy will pull Remy under the bleachers and confront him. Remy promises that he's done with trying to expose Cosmo and Wanda, and Timmy wants to know how he can trust Remy's words. Remy will then kiss him, confusing the hell out of Timmy. He says he has feeling for Timmy, and would never do anything that would hurt Timmy and ruin his chances. Timmy is hung up on the fact that they're both guys and Remy just kissed him??? So he says nothing and just walks away.

The next day he'll be sitting with Chester & AJ in class and tells them about it (they never apologized for ditching Timmy at the start of high school but he doesn't really have any other friends and they're forced to talk with him since they all sit next to each other). AJ asks if Timmy knows what homosexuality and bisexuality is, and Timmy has honestly never heard of those terms before. After all, his parents never let him watch TV or give him money to go out, and still force him to have a babysitter at his age. When AJ explains it all (he has graphs and examples of non-heterosexual relationships observed in other mammals) something just clicks for Timmy. When school is done with, he runs home (ignoring Remy and Tootie who are both planning to confess their feeling again) and poofs over to Jimmy's lab.

Jimmy's surprised to see him. But he's even more surprised when Timmy just grabs him by both shoulders and pulls him in for a kiss without another word. Jimmy's brain literally crashes (he wonders if he's having a stroke or some sort of stress-dream), and when Timmy pulls aways he's a blushing mess. Timmy will apologize and start rambling on about how he just found out that this was a possibility and that it makes sense. He always feels comfortable around Jimmy and once he realized two guys could be together, kissing Jimmy was the first thing that popped into his head. Timmy keeps talking for several minutes as Jimmy attempts to process everything, but Timmy will end up taking Jimmy's silence as a bad sign and try to leave. Jimmy's forced to grab Timmy's hand to make him stay and they then just sit in silence for several hours as Jimmy rearranges his thoughts (Timmy will eventually fall asleep on him as they just sit on the floor of the lab).

After that they start dating. Tootie and Remy have no idea until Jimmy shows up one day to pick up Timmy from school for a hang-out/date. Timmy is casually chatting with Tootie and Remy (as both of them continue to interrupt each others attempts to ask Timmy on a date), when Timmy suddenly breaks away from them and charges at a boy they'd never seen before (Jimmy) who just showed up at the school gate. Timmy tackle's Jimmy at top speed, nearly barreling him over as they hug and plants a big kiss on Jimmy's cheek. He waves goodbye to Tootie and Remy, who are just watching slack-jawed as Timmy walks away hand-in-hand with Jimmy. Tootie and Remy then form an alliance to take down Jimmy so they can go back to fighting for Timmy's affection.

[zelaznyharper]

Actually yeah we've seen him fight for his relationship with Buck and Eddie time and time again!(sticking around after Eddie left the 118, introducing Eddie to Carla so Eddie wouldn't get in trouble, sticking around during Eddie's crisis in S5 and helping him recover, s7 when he confronted Eddie about Kim,....)

Now whether or not you read those as romantic is up to you - but you brought up Chim and Maddie too, which are clearly not romantic, so even if it's just a friendship it's clearly a friendship Buck fights for. So.

I see what your saying, but I don't necessarily agree that those 'count' for what I'm asking. Buck is all in for helping a friend or lover, romantic, platonic, friendly, filial, whomever, whenever. No doubt. And no doubt he's ride-or-die for Eddie (whether you read it as romantic or platonic). He would cut off a limb if he thought it would make Eddie's life even a little bit easier. He will go to hell and back again to get Eddie what Eddie wants or needs. He will stick around, even if it means hurting himself, until he's told to go.

The closest I've seen to Buck pushing at someone else's boundaries, ignoring what he thinks they'd want, in order to fight for them is him confronting Eddie about Kim. And that wasn't for himself, or his and Eddie's relationship, it was closer to an intervention to try and keep Eddie from self-destructing. And in another timeline, this could have led to Buck fighting for his and Eddie's relationship. If Eddie had taken Buck's confrontation badly enough. If it had led to Eddie implying that he and Buck don't have the kind of relationship that allows for Buck to call him out on the Kim situation. If Buck had to tell Eddie to pull his head out of his ass and accept that he doesn't get to tell Buck how much he cares. That would be Buck fighting for this relationship.

Eddie and Buck's relationship is it's own thing. It's a beautiful once-in-a-lifetime kind of partnership. Aside from the Kim situation, the only other time I think there was an opportunity to show Buck fighting for his place in Eddie's life is after the tsunami. After Chris had been found and everyone was home safe. If Eddie hadn't shown up with Chris the next day, and Buck had to reach out and say 'I know you're probably furious with me, but please still love me anyways.' That didn't happen, because Eddie wasn't mad, and Eddie reached out. (And it probably couldn't have happened until after Buck's epiphanies in Buck Begins). Buck is the one who has doubts about the strength of their relationship, and Eddie shows up for him.

But, what I need to see is Buck fighting for himself. For him to allow his partner to be the weak one, the one with doubts and insecurities, and for him to say 'I'm worth fighting for. We are worth fighting for.' It's an active self-interest in love that's needed in moderation. Too much and you get abusive controlling relationships, like Doug, but none at all? You get Buck, at home, wondering why he's always too much and never enough.

[theghostbunnie]

How do you see Max and Neil relationship? I mean I know you ship it but why specifically? I’d love to hear your thoughts on it!

I see them my personal fannon wise as having a really deep connection and dynamic where the lines of platonic and romantic love get blurred (when they're older) and even though they're both really terrible at communicating that verbally, and their emotions in general as people, they both just know they can be way more comfortable, honest, and vulnerable around each other than other people bc they really are each other's person. Even when I'm shipping them with other people their friendship is still greatly important in their lives.

Just a silly little HC I have but: Max is shown to be impressed with Neil's capabilities and Neil is shown to be attention and ego-driven. Even though Neil knows not to take Max's opinion too overly highly bc, c'mon it's Max, I HC Neil secretly really likes the way it feels to be "Max's exception." The asshole with few friends and is hard to impress or understand.™

I think I've said it before but I'll say it again too much of maxneil is just ""max and his boyfriend"" rather than Max AND Neil. Max being a huge fan favorite and some fans wanting to give him a romantic partner and Neil being the closest dude in arms reach. Often just focusing on what Max can receive, how Neil feels about Max, what he can do for him, ect.

I love Neil as a character, he's my silly skrimbly and deserves his own life with intricate issues, and affection, and his own needs and flaws.

Neither one of them has endless patience!! They're both very morally grey just in different ways! I love using those aspects about them to come up with angst.

More Cannon-wise though I mentioned how Max is BIG on first impressions not only that, he's goal oriented and specifically wasn't looking for friends in the first episode. When meeting Neil for the first time this kid was: A: very openly unhappy with the situation, and B: smart. Max saw Neil as useful and felt a sensation of kinship. It wasn't until he cussed and yelled out Campbell did he also find him interesting and someone to give more respect towards, due to that sensation of kinship multiplying at the display of taking no shit and yelling at authority about it.

Max still wasn't looking for friends but Neil had showed him a side of his personality that paved a good way towards that anyways. Max trusted him pretty quickly to escape with him.

We know Neil and Nikki had both been victims of bullying, (Neil mentioning being the outcasted kid himself in the Jermy Fartz episode) so they developed a heavy clingyness to their first friend. (In the episode foreign exchange campers they're incredibly distraught he didn't want to be on their team. They're watching him and getting angry/sad about it. I honestly think this same problem they have socially comes back in the recent finale. Neil and Nikki need people to like them more than Max does, he's actively seen trying to calm them down about it.)

So where Max has a "push everybody away" method Neil and Nikki have a "hold on and never let go" to an unhealthy amount. Nikki moves past this partially, Neil doesn't.

Neil had a robot he made JUST to be his friend turn on him FOR being clingy and needy. He blinked away a TEAR when Max called him temporary. Max may have saw him as a friend first but Neil more openly held it closer to his heart.

They both have way more in common than people notice, Neil isn't really the voice of reason to Max's chaos. It depends on the day. Max can loose control of a situation he created for his own gain, Neil looses control when trying to gain attention or gain lack of it actually.

When Max thought he lost Dolph to bears Neil said hope you find him! And outed, But in camp cool kidz when Max starts an uprising after Neil gives him the idea, he's the only person to willingly stay on his side.

When Neil's AI got out of hand Max was impressed, but Neil had to drag him to help. Where as when Neil was lying about the story of Hanukkah, Max tried to give him advice and help him out.

Max both simultaneously uses Neil like a henchman sometimes, but Is impressed by his actions and capabilities. Neil is VERY attention and ego-driven. Max saying he's too dumb to find something just so Neil will happily fetch it for him is him playing on that, although it's a mean move it really shows how well he knows Neil. And even openly admits Neil knows him well too.

Max was the only person who knew/Neil trusted with his bathroom issues. (I hc Neil asks Max to whistle outside the outhouse for him and Max is like "do you know how many superstitions tell you not to whistle outside at night/j" and Neil is like neither one of us is superstitions just start that remix already istg!!!)

Both of their personalities hold so many similarities as well as alot of negative traits so they do bump heads alot, unlike Nikki's behind your back type shit talk, Neil insinuates once to his face he was smarter than Max and got a foul reaction from it.

This post is a lot more messy than the Nikki one as I can probably easily break down a timeline where Max warmed up to Nikki, but with Neil he seemed to connect with him pretty quickly, in reigny day where I mentioned he was quick to shut nikki down, in the same episode he's very driven to figure out where Neil is. Their dynamic is more complicated I think bc when Max and Neil aren't getting along it's more clear and direct and often due to their similar things. Pettiness, selfishness, egotisticalness. On the other side of the same coin they act silently attached to the hip and almost above other people together.

So I guess I ship it BC I like interpreting them with that very big understanding they have of one another, that deep rooted camaraderie, balanced out with that banter of being sassy little shits but in different ways. The potential angst of when they've already become THAT close but their problems of different moral greyness get too big.

The idea of them spending nearly every day together, and deeply loving each other but never actually saying it or expressing their affection in traditional ways, yet still feeling and knowing that love is there.

[bidisasterevankinard]

Reasons why I`m not giving up on canon buddie after season 6

btw remember you always have fanon. And buddie is pretty popular ship. ao3 is always here to have your back

I'm just will hope till every last episode

Buck should have chose his couch by himself. But also thing he should have stopped to be scared to "make a mistake again". Buck decided to try it with Natalia. It doesn't mean they are 100% are going to be together. He just let himself to try to live without fear of making mistakes. Because you cant live without them. Because you always is going to make mistakes in something. But you should allow yourself to live and learn from them

Also Buck asked her "to help him to pick a new couch". Not picking for him. Not just bringing her couch. He wants to be active in relationship now, and he wants the person he consider as a possible future partner to be with him in this. But the word "help" is interested. Something telling me Buck sees Natalia as a way to deal with his death. And I dont believe he is accepted this fact.

Maybe Buck is ready to try to be active in relationship we still needs to see if Natalia is ready for be with Buck at his worst and let him be with her at her worst (but for now she just run away after bad dates)

Eddie never just date people. He never had fun. And all this years he was closed after Shannon. He needs to try to open his heart a little bit, try to date someone for himself and answer what he wants. For now he is just excited to make something for himself. And it's amazing. But you can't always make it easy. Problems in relationship sooner or later will be here (fantasy vs reality). It can't be just "magic" every day. Can't be the best day every day. And Marisol was here as a perfect answer for Eddie's attempts to find magic in "dream" T-shirt

Eddie is scared to be alone, but we never heard him to name what exactly he wants from partner FOR HIMSELF. Never said what love for him. He always tried to connect again/find a mother for Chris, not partner for himself. Dates with Marisol is a good opportunity for him to think about what he wants. And how to make it reality

And here we can remember the "so many excellent choices right under his nose". It's about both of them. Eddie for years was closed after Shannon, believed he wasn't good romantic partner ("I wasn't enough"). Buck was making mistakes trying to cling to people and then scared to make mistakes again so tried to close himself from romantic relationship. He wanted real love all his life but settled to less because never believed he could have more. They both were creating their partnership with hearts close to real love, close to even let them try to see it. So yes they don't see each other as a romantic partner for now. They can't see the answer right in front of them. And before see each other they need stop to close and hide themselves, stop to be scared to make mistakes. And they are trying to do it now but with other people. It doesn't mean this people are their engame choices

If 911 creators really wants people to like LI for Buck and Eddie they should give them normal screen time and backstories and really good development on screen. And I can't see how they can do it with Marisol and Natalia even if abc will make it 22 episodes. They both for now is just LI characters and it`s boring. Their works also can't be put in the show for them to be not Ali/Ana again. Because Taylor at least somehow could be close to calls and her job made sense to be shown.

I'm still see couch as metaphor for Buckley-Diaz family. Because what was the point of introducing it like that? Family dinner. And Chris first started conversation. If it's not about Chris and Eddie, they could make it conversation with Maddie, Bobby or just with Eddie while they drink bear and talk about life. But it wasn't like that. it was cute family dinner with family recipe, with a board game

"Dating someone from the call..." Both met their new LI on calls

[yvtro]

https://at.tumblr.com/scintillyyy/ah-thank-you-for-the-correction-you-are-correct/nwppbs9d8f1g

That whole thread really highlight how lonely Jason's Robin run was. Honestly it makes me sad how he didn't have many friends back then compare to others. He had Eddie but even then dc forget about them.

i don't really agree with lots of points in this thread, mainly because of tim exceptionalism (or the main character complex, whatever you want to call it) + it assumes that things that happened pretty much only because of jason's death would still occur.

having said so, i do agree that jason's robin run was (in a way) incredibly lonely!

now, personally i don't think that jason noticed it much, but that's part of the problem. i have touched upon it briefly in my other posts about vigilante/civilian identity (look: here, for example), and i think it's worth to make a quick comparison of pre-crisis vs post-crisis jay.

so, tldr, pre-crisis jason is shown to have a whole life at school, he has friends and even a romantic interest. post-crisis jason has none of that. we see him working for an extra credit at school, but if i recall it right (might have been a pre-crisis story retroactively included in canon though) the only time we actually see him *in* school is when he thinks about how he would like to join the theatre but doesn’t have time for that because of robin responsibilities. we don’t see him having any social life outside of robin, but also as a member of the community he doesn’t have anyone close his age. his cameo in titans is very dear to me, and you know, as a person with siblings i will tell you, you can absolutely be friends with your older brother’s friends, but we don’t ever see him developing a lasting bond with any of them (which is also because he died quite soon after that. i’m not saying that donna, for example, didn’t care about him, but i don’t think they had a chance to grow very close).

there's eddie, sure, but even that relationship is that of penpals, and by the time jason comes back from the dead, eddie is completely retconned, so it's safe to assume that in the current continuity they have never known each other at all.

i'm not going to comment on dc trying to sell the concept of roy and jay being childhood friends in n52.

so i’m thinking, you can make an argument about how jason knows little besides vigilantism, but i believe there’s an additional layer to how even his “nightlife” (debatable term btw, we see robin jay operating in daylight along with batman all the time but i guess that was a whole another era) focuses pretty much on bruce and no one else. he really doesn’t know much beyond batman and robin.

and it obviously wasn't really the writers' intention, i bet it's mostly the result of the fact that they weren't really interested in exploring his character much, but jay's world is so very narrow and centres around bruce. and i can see how bruce wouldn't really see any problem in it at first, because (while it's not really canon, as there's a time skip and we don't even get to see how he settles into the manor, nor much of his training period) it is safe to assume that it took some time for jay to gain bruce's trust and to get used to a role of a child (since he was used to fending for himself/presumably being briefly a caretaker for his mother before). so when the kid finally learns that he can depend on bruce and actively seeks him out, that's great. it took so much to coax him into allowing to be cared for, now the issue is solved. (wrong.)

i think it really puts post-resurrection jay's mentality in perspective (even if winick did not intend it this way; he clearly had no interest in jay's 80s characterisation). of course jason's anger, disappointment, and feelings of betrayal focus on bruce; bruce was everything he had. at this stage, he doesn't know much beside him, and being robin.

and i don't think that jason then was quite aware that he was lonely. he had his dad, which was the most important thing for him for a while, he had alfred. dick might not have been home much, but their interactions we got to see were meaningful, and flashbacks (such as the famous ski trip) suggest that they did spend more time together. babs was around. he probably made so many brief connections with gothamites in his time as robin too.

it all becomes a problem when jason grows. when he can't see a line between being a robin and a son, and looks for another parental figure, and he doesn't have anyone to talk to about it. everyone he has a lasting relationship with is part of the family that he worries he doesn't belong to, so he just resolves to find someone new to depend on.

it becomes a problem when he digs himself out of grave, and later comes back to gotham, and there's such a limited number of people he can (or could, if he wanted) turn to.

i also believe that even if the plot of 'a death in the family' never occured, the fact that he went from a hyper-independent parentified child to someone who spends most of his time with his dad or alone (and i don't think he minded alone time all that much at first) would backfire otherwise. i'm joking, but at this point there probably would be some separation anxiety, on both sides.

i just wish i could grip jay with bbq tongs and put him in east gotham to allow him to stay in touch with his community. of course he probably was around there as robin a lot, but as a civilian? i doubt it.

[colourful-void]

Supporting Satoshi - an examination and comparison of JN36 and XY121

Part One: Snowballs do not cure depression but it was worth a shot

You know that episode of Pokemon where a gym leader beats Satoshi in a battle so hard that one of his pokemon gets mildly hurt (though there's no long term effects) and because of it he becomes depressed, closing himself off from his friends before someone comes along to pull him out of that mental state, and also severe weather phenomena is involved and a reflection of a persons mental state? Or rather, the two episodes?

So when I was watching Journeys, I noticed an episode that had a similar-- but distinctly different-- plot to an xy episode I had seen before. And what was particularly interesting was that while I couldn't stand the xy episode, the journeys episode was one of my favourites. I won't drag this out for you guys, I love the journeys episode and re watch it a LOT and the xy episode sort of just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. and don't go claiming its solely ship bias, because i saw the xy episode first and disliked it then.

This will analyze both of these episodes, comparing them against each other. Specifically within the context of how Goh and Serena both help Satoshi through a similar situation There will be some discussion of AmourShipping and Satogou in this analysis. I'm going to be a bit negative regarding Serena's actions and the potential "romantic" weight of them here, but I want to be clear that I Do Not dislike Serena as a character. Personally, I wish the writers had given her more room to grow outside of her romantic interests, but I do not hate Serena as a character. I do, however, disagree with her actions in this episode. Please don't take this out of context and dont be ship fighting in the comments, it's boring. This is a comparison of These Two Episodes, not of Goh and Serena and their respective ships as a whole.

This part mainly focuses on the xy episode and the second will focus mainly on the journeys. It's only divided into parts because of the tumblr post limit.

(If you like the xy episode or hate the journeys episode, awesome! having your own opinions is great. these are mine though, so i hope you'll listen to them)

With that out of the way, let's start. And I'm going to use mostly japanese names here because I'm taking screencaps from the subbed japanese copies.

The set up for each of these episodes is eerily similar as pointed out in the gag at the start.

Xy has a bit more set up before the episode in question though, with the initial loss and retreat into the forest by Satoshi taking place the episode before. The episode opens up proper with Satoshi taking time to breathe to himself, alone in the forest.

Emphasis is placed on him taking a deep breath, aided by the visuals showing them (thanks cold air) and the silence of the rest of the soundscape, with the only other sounds being the wind and some bird pokemon, plus some falling snow.

Journeys Satoshi starts off in a better mental state than Xy, with the episode starting off with him jogging along with his pokemon.

However, we can still see that he's been affected by the last battle he lost, against Saitou, as he's putting a lot of effort into training and doing better.

Which, doesn't go well for him, as he loses his next two battles as well, and drops in the World Championship ranking as a result

And he's pretty upset about it too. Same thing as over in xy. In both cases, a respective friend/love interest notes that Satoshi is upset and expresses concern.

He's got support from his friends in both situations! But that support comes across in very different ways.

But, to understand how that support manages to affect Satoshi, we need to understand the problem at play.

Now, I wanna make something clear here. Satoshi's problem is not that he is a sore loser. I'm not arguing that's not a contributing factor, or that he's not upset about the loss (particularly in the world championships), He's still bitter about the lost part, but the root of the problem is not losing, he's been shown to be fine with losing (if not a bit more motivated to win now) in prior episodes.

Satoshi's problem is that his pokemon are getting hurt. Satoshi's problem is that his pokemon are getting hurt, because they're losing battles. Satoshi's problem is that his pokemon are losing battles because he's not training them well enough. And to clarify, that's not my viewpoint, it's his. Satoshi's problem is that he's not good enough for himself, and he feels that that's something he has to fix on his own.

So how do we help him?

Our weather event in question is introduced in separate points in the episodes, but I'll cover them both now.

In xy, it's this snowstorm, which conveniently becomes a problem directly after Serena returns to the Pokemon Centre.

In journeys, it's a sandstorm! That's in near direct contrast to a snowstorm! Incredible.

Heading back to xy Satoshi, things aren't going great in the forest. Luckily, Serena's run off to find him.

I think it's of note here that Serena runs off with the best intentions, she wants to help Satoshi, plain and simple. It just sort of goes wrong along the way.

It's worth noting that Xy Satoshi tries to bring himself out of being sad by the tried and true method of "stop being sad"

Despite telling himself this, he doesn't get anywhere. Which makes sense, because it's not getting the the root of the problem. It's not even addressing it at all. He's just trying to 'be better', which isn't even a battle strategy. However, it is something I can see him saying, so this isn't a critique of Satoshi's thought process, but me pointing out that this isn't really effective. Which is supported by the narrative, because again, he doesn't get anywhere, he doesn't even move.

I can't show it in screencaps but the lights in Satoshi's eyes are shaking here, something that they consistently do throughout the series when he's feeling a particularly strong emotion. Keep that in mind. It couples well with another trait of his, and that's his hat!

And by that I mean how he hides his eyes with the brim of it when upset, something he does exactly as Serena shows up and calls out to him. Now, he's not upset that Serena is here. He's upset about the pokemon stuff still. He's trying to hide the fact that he's upset from Serena.

Serena starts off with her speech well, trying to appeal to Satoshi to let her in and talk things out. And maybe it's because he wasn't ready for it yet, or because of the way she phrases it (a lot of 'i' and 'me' language which can be helpful but can also come across as though she's making it about her. not her intent i don't think, but a possible interpretation.), it's not her fault for how Satoshi reacts regardless.

But how Satoshi reacts is not good.

Now it's really interesting to note that before this, Serena was standing while Satoshi was sitting, putting her above him in terms of active power, when it comes to how the shot is presented, but when Satoshi stands up, the camera tilts with the movement so that they're on equal level. Neat!

And Serena yells in return, scolding Satoshi for not talking about it. Not the best move, since pushing someone to talk about something that's upsetting them isn't really productive, but she's trying here and she's frustrated.

Satoshi continues to withdraw and self isolate, claiming it is his problem and that he wants to be left be. Now, this is the mindset of a clearly upset person and isolation may not be the best option, but he did make the explicit request to be left alone here.

He's clearly upset as he turns away from Serena's eye and slumps over a little.

And then Serena throws a snowball at him.

Angry as he is, you can see Satoshi's expression change when he sees Serena's reaction.

Serena tells Satoshi that she's not like the Satoshi she knows, who is always full of energy and positive and a leader, and a bunch of other positive traits. The problem here, is that Serena's looking at an idealized version of Satoshi. And while the intent here was probably meant to be something more like "you have so many wonderful traits about you I know you can do this", coupled with the snowballs and the phrasing, it seems as though Serena is scolding Satoshi for being sad.

Or rather, being angry with him for not living up to her idealized version of him, and not wanting him to express any negitave emotions.

Which is sort of a really bad mindset.

The snowballs continue, never once does Satoshi fight back. In fact, he stops arguing entirely after the first one. Serena knocks him off his feet and tells him he's not being himself, before running off. (In the english dub, Serena claims that Satoshi isn't being "the real satoshi" and then demands that the real Satoshi be "given back", so it could be worse)

Satoshi decides to literally run his problems away, because it will help him reach some kind of conclusion, and immediately trips and falls down a large hill. No, I'm not making that up. Something like this just isn't like him. He's just gotta stop being sad!

Now personally, I really disagree with the idea that "being upset" isn't "like a person". That's because based off of my own experiences, I know it can be really damaging to hold the mindset that any negative emotions you feel aren't a part of you and that you shouldn't be upset because you're usually a positive and happy person. Not the case with every person, but I personally really have a problem with shows telling children that they just shouldn't be upset instead of processing their emotions in a meaningful way. (The journeys episode doesn't do an outstanding job of it either, but this is a bit of a tangent anyway. A show that does do this right is "OK KO! Let's be Heroes" which actually deals with this problem in greater depth and does a fantastic job of it.)

But the snowball scene ends here. Now I'll get back to Journeys in a moment, but since Serena has finished her part of the comparison for the most part, I'm going to summarize a bit more of the xy episode.

Satoshi decides to literally run his problems away, because it will help him reach some kind of conclusion, and immediately trips and falls down a large hill. No, I'm not making that up.

The snowstorm kicks in, Serena get back annoyed, then similarly groans and yells, and the whole xy gang + pokemon go running off in search of Satoshi. Pikachu appears the most concerned.

Now Serena tells the others she lost her cool and said something horrible to Satoshi, but explains its because Satoshi is someone she admires. Cool motive, I get it, still kinda bad.

and in the end, it's not Serena's words that get he message across to Satoshi. The solution to this problem was Satoshi finding a way to reaffirm his abilities and instinct.

In the xy episode, he helps some pokemon out of the tree, and when his very cool frog friend shows up, they're able to work together with their bond to save this one from falling off a cliff.

Here's the point. Satoshi learns by doing, by actions. He needs to see first hand that there are ways of getting past his problems, and that it's worth having the courage to keep going. The lesson is about valuing pokemon as equals and partners, and specifically that trying to be better as the trainer alone isn't going to help.

This is essentially where this plot line ends, team rocket is there for a bit as well but as much as i love them they're not relevant here, and some fun stuff with the league, love it not important right now its like 3am and I'm not sleeping until this is finished so we gotta keep things moving.

This was no doubt Serena's intent to get a similar point, but she goes about it the wrong way. She tries to convey this with words, as conversation and motivational words have helped her in the past (Elle's words of praise stick with her, Satoshi's words from when they were kids, etc). It's a good idea, but their different ways of learning and growing from a similar situation are incompatible, and that's why things don't work out in Serena's favour. There's also still the problem of "pulling yourself together" not being helpful in this case.

There's also a very similar line in this scene to the one at the end of the journeys episode, as Satoshi says to his frog that they should start over from scratch. It's essentially the same phrase with different wording. It's great. The Storm ends as he realizes this as well! Wonderful in terms of pathetic fallacy.

The gang all reunites, its nice. Satoshi thanks Serena for what she said after apologizing to everyone, which contradicts what he said earlier but I've already established that I dislike this message here so I won't go over it too much. I guess he's right in a literal sense in that in response to her words he went and ran until he tripped off a cliff but the emotional growth here was because of his own actions (and the frogs), not Serena's. Sorry Serena, you'll get em next time.

This is essentially where this plot line ends, team rocket is there for a bit as well but as much as i love them they're not relevant here, and some fun stuff with the league, love it not important right now its like 3am as I write this so we gotta keep things moving.

So. What about Goh?

Well...

(Part Two here on account of image limit!!)

[incorrect-ikevamp-quotes]

why does jean warn up to mc so quickly? ikevamp makes it clear that jean is a pretty reserved person and doesn't open up or let people in easily but he seems to let mc in quite quickly and it confuses me quite a bit.

Oh boy, where to begin with this one.

Well, I have a lot of Feelings^TM about this, but I'll try to be concise. Essentially, I think Jeanne doesn't recover in the other routes--or the general storyline--largely because he's just a lot to unpack narratively speaking. And without some pretty direct intervention, he has a hard time healing. MC’s direct intervention was meaningful because it was focused, consistent, and adapted to Jeanne’s specific needs. She also doesn’t make light of his experiences which is key; she fully understands that she can’t fathom what he’s been through. There is a very weighty respect and acknowledgement, a seriousness with which she treats his wounds that’s important.

It’s easy to make this a “why is MC nOt LiKe ThE oThEr GiRlS” but honestly that’s just not the sense I get when I look at all the information available to us. 

That being said, I also just feel like every person's recovery from traumatic events doesn't really look the same? I mean Leonardo’s cptsd isn’t going to operate the same way Jeanne’s wartime/Inquisition cptsd is going to operate. Some people require very individualized healing, others will often require a large scale group effort to lift them up.

Typically people don't ever just get over what happened to them and never worry about it again, either. It's usually a process of coping; the hope is that with time you find healthy ways to deal with grief and move forward. Therapists aren't magicians, they just help people process painful experiences/thoughts. It's honestly up to individuals to find meaningful ways to implement these tactics. 

Tl; dr: My contention is that Jeanne doesn’t open up or choose to stay alive because MC magically heals him, rather his recovery is a convergence of many people’s efforts and hopes that he stays alive. Gilles (he insists that Jeanne must live, asks him to promise), MC (affirms and bolsters that promise), Comte (makes a second life and recovery possible)--and in no small measure Mozart and Napoleon--all make an active effort to buoy him. As people often say, it takes a village to raise a child.

While Jeanne seems to respond most powerfully to MC’s attempts, it feels more like a product of chemistry/compatibility than it does a random cop out. There is no insinuation that only romantic love can heal; after all, MC gets close to him without any romantic intentions at first. They’re just good friends? It’s more that their feelings simply moved in a different direction after a point, which doesn’t necessarily happen all the time. Jeanne is also incredibly moved by Mozart’s love for him as a friend, Comte’s love for him as a father, and even Gilles’ love as a comrade to an extent. If anything, without their input Jeanne’s capacity for romantic love would be questionable at best.

Now, because I can never for the life of me stop analyzing, I have a more large scale outline of my thoughts below. Spoilers for Jeanne’s route:

If we look at Jeanne's life history, he has pretty specific trauma. Most of the harm he endured was a direct result of human rights violations after the war itself. He didn't enjoy fighting and killing people, but he's also very much a man that sees the reality of his position: it's either kill or be killed. His entire goal was to defeat the enemy as efficiently as possible in the hopes of ending conflict, and with his enormous resolve turns the tide. He had no innate interest in inflicting harm, or lack of control when engaging. He isn't pathological about it, and doesn’t dehumanize the other side. He was more "this was an act of necessity, but those are still human beings." So as far as I can tell he has a very strong moral compass and sense of duty, he doesn't show much delusion/confusion in that regard. (Also evident in his conversations with the young orphan boy.) Furthermore, he has been shown to have a sense of humor--cracking jokes with Gilles and boosting morale for his fellow soldiers.

His childhood abandonment is significant (he left his home because he was "not an adequate farmhand and they had no ability to feed all their children") but I don't know if I would consider it a huge trauma point for him. It seems as though he deemed it an act of necessity--not spite. It was simply the way of things, and he couldn't help his wiry constitution. You'd be surprised how common that was once upon a time, tbh... While it's certainly not right or fair, it does appear that in his perception it was the choice he made and he moved on after he became a soldier. Just focusing on what he could do, rather than everything he lacked. For people in his position, they often feel it is useless to linger on what should have been. There’s no time to linger or doubt, life hangs in the balance.

That leaves us with his time under the Inquisition, just before he was slated to be burned alive. I think this is the keystone trauma point for him, because there are a lot of moving parts to his powerlessness here. The first part is that his entire life's mission--ending the war so that people would no longer have to die and/or starve as a result of senseless violence--was just sabotaged. All those years of doing things he never wanted to do (wartime violence) and being forced to leave his family to ensure they didn't all starve, all of it treated like some kind of joke. Like he didn't sacrifice years of his life and sanity to protect a people who were happy to call him a monster and watch him burn alive. The second part is the overt gaslighting and rewriting of Jeanne's personal history (and overall French public perception) for the sake of the King's political agenda. To call him a treasonous danger to the country when he was once lauded a hero. The third portion is the actual physical helplessness of being arrested, starved, and continuously maimed for no reason beyond pure malice. While it's never right to do that to any human being, this was done to a man who prided himself on his stalwart moral code. To abuse and torture him for something egregious that he would never do (at the risk of death) is just another slap in the face to everything he is and believes in.

I just feel like the context clarifies why that period of time would be the tipping point. His entire moral code and life’s work is being called into question and swept aside, as well as his agency? He believes very powerfully in a sense of right vs wrong, what's fair and what isn't fair. Somebody else deciding that for him--and deciding in a way that is openly unfair/incorrect--further makes him lose himself and his sense of reality. A person in that situation begins to doubt if they are good or bad. His belief in god all the more pressing; if he was a good person, why would fate bring him so much suffering? Honorable soldier or not, his blade has drawn so much blood...

People often reference his stilted social skills (and I am of the belief that he is on the autistic spectrum) as a reason why he is so "people-adverse" but tbh? I don't agree. His memories before the onset of this trauma reveal that he was actually a very warm person, and that people were more than willing to fight under his banner. He had friends, and he had comrades--his country loved him. He was the picture of well-meaning civic duty. Just because he doesn’t integrate smoothly into larger social groups or adapt well to socially shifting circumstances, doesn’t mean he just hates people lmao. When people give him the space to exist within his comfort zone and don’t take advantage of him, he thrives. Compounded by that, we also have his actions in the present to further prove what is true and what isn't.

While he is stern with the orphan boy (I'm sorry I can't remember his name, damn it) there is no malice or cruelty in what he has to say. He doesn't punish the kid or do anything out of line. It may not be fair in terms of the adult level of discretion he asks of him, but the kid also didn't have a lot of options realistically speaking lmao. Same thing with MC, she and the orphan boy are nearly identical in how Jeanne treats them. He's a little rough, but the route reveals that his intentions are just a reflection of what he's been through. He truly believes that if a person isn't strong, they won't survive--because his entire life was a series of trying to be strong/reliable because nobody else would. There was nobody to protect him, and nobody to care for him went things went south. It was him and his sword against the world, and even his exceptional skill as a fighter did not protect him from the Inquisition's arbitrary torture. He has lived in a world where good acts can become absolutely meaningless, where following rules and helping people still gets you slaughtered. That's going to take a considerable toll on his mental health: where do you find the will to go on when the next second of your life could mean the devastation of everything that matters to you?

Spoilers: you don't. Or if you do, every minute of the day is a fight to stay alive. That is the point at which we meet Jeanne. Caught in the hellish whirlpool of wanting more, wanting better--but being terrified of the cost. The cost of hoping, only for his entire world to go up in flames again. It's not a small thing, in my view.

If you have any doubts as to whether or not that is the case, I direct you to literally every singular instance in which Jeanne's emotional sensibility goes visibly dark/south. When do these instances happen? When it rains, for one. And when Shakespeare deliberately starts pressing on his sensitivities: about the soldiers he was forced to kill, about the nation that spurned him, how he's truly "wicked" at heart and doesn't deserve to be happy--seconds before flames erupt for the festival. Does that really sound coincidental? I mean lmao. The rain is a painful reminder, but MC transforms that memory into something a little lighter with her bet. He has nothing to lose in her game, all she does is ask for time with him or offers him something if she loses. There's a playfulness there, a restoration of agency and ease that's invaluable to his recovery.

As for Shakespeare's deliberate retraumatization...I can't even begin to explain how damaging that event was. Shakespeare is undermining Jeanne's agency in that he--not unlike the corrupt monarch of Jeanne's era--is twisting Jeanne's beliefs to work against him. He knows full well that Jeanne doesn't feel like he deserves somebody so bright and understanding (we need to remember it's not really a luxury he's had much in life, especially after the war ended). He knows Jeanne has a tendency to impose that strict moral code on himself even more than he does on others. To reaffirm his every worst fear and lurking terror only throws Jeanne into a vicious downspiral. Jeanne doesn't reject MC out of disgust or hate. He rejects her because he literally cannot handle the concept of trying to be happy again, or of burdening her with his constant struggle to move on while he’s in the middle of a bad episode. He knows he won’t be able to stop reliving the past, that every second of his life and breath will be colored by his gruesome memories. He's trying as hard as he can to keep the intrusive thoughts quiet, to move on. But I'm not going to lie to any of you, that is incredibly difficult to do alone.

The next obvious question is, well why can't the other men help him? This isn't to say that they can't--we see how much solace Jeanne finds in Napoleon and Mozart. Even Isaac is gentle with the veteran. But there are limits to how much they can do. Napoleon is struggling with his own wartime trauma, and it's not identical to Jeanne's. Plus there’s a distinct difference in their sensibilities? Napoleon is the type to habitually seek comfort in helping others when he can't help himself, he's not as in tune with answering his own personal feelings and regulating them. (I mean just look at his new ES: he knows what he wants, but it takes a nudge from Isaac for him to go through with it.) He’s very communally reliant in ways Jeanne isn’t; Jeanne is a very private person, and typically prefers one on one from what I can tell.

Mozart is the definition of repression, and if you look at their interactions it's usually Jeanne that's smoothing over Mozart's rough edges. Mozart says as much himself: that he feels like a rotten friend because he knew Jeanne was struggling with a lot of intense trauma, but he didn't know how to unravel it without hurting him in the process. Mozart calls it personal cowardice, but honestly I just feel like they both had too much going on to be able to help each other effectively. (And Jeanne expresses this sentiment too? This idea that he's not angry with Mozart? He knows they're both carrying a lot, he's just touched Mozart cares about him in return.)

Okay, briefly unrelated, but like. Am I the only one that wheezes uncontrollably when Mozart is like "?????? Idk what it is about MC...I don't want her to be scared of me..." in his own main story in the baths. And Jeanne. IS TRYING SO HARD. NOT TO SPILL THE BEANS ABOUT HIM O B V I O U S L Y BEING IN LOVE. THE HILARITY I CAN'T DO THIS. Jeanne was like "yeah....yeah that's rough buddy.......[screams internally, give your boy time Jeanne he's fragile]"

Honestly? That's the thing about Jeanne too--he has incredible self-awareness and hyperarousal-related (I mean the PTSD kind, get your head out of the gutter) awareness to the people around him. He's very, very conscious of the fact that he is surrounded by geniuses when he can't even write his own name. Just because he has the fortitude not to lash out with his insecurities, doesn't mean he never feels stupid or inferior. And it doesn't help when there are people in the mansion who call him--a fucking war veteran from 500 YEARS AGO--nAiVe. He's not naive lmao. He just doesn't know how the world works so many years later, and it's a ridiculously steep learning curve? Leonardo and Comte are nearly 500 years old, but they lived throughout every hour of that time in a linear fashion. It is a big deal to be moved from 1430 to 1890 in the span of a second asynchronously, and then be expected to function without a hitch??? Given the circumstances he adapts well.

That atmosphere--this constant impatience with what he doesn’t understand, his inability to be caught up to speed quickly--is going to hinder his recovery lmao. He feels like a burden most of the time, and agency and freedom are crucial.

Another thing that occurs to me about the mansion's arrangement is that there is a power dynamic, just as any space with people in it has some level of hierarchy (unless you live with miraculously chill people). Jeanne is acutely aware that Comte is the most powerful being in that space, and he is not only hatefully angry at him--but likely afraid too. We have to remember that the biggest betrayal he witnessed in his life was at the hands of a monarch; it was the aristocracy that turned on him and erased the truth. Comte is openly a child that resulted from both that era and that type of lineage, I don't really blame Jeanne for being wary. He intimately knows how willing rich people are to throw normal folks under the bus to suit their ambitions/whims. Comte, while not deliberately threatening, also seems to be painfully aware of this impression he gives off. His "chad persona" as I've mentioned allows him to navigate his life in secret by necessity, but it’s actively damaging to his son. He can't reveal the truth because of Vlad's betrayal, and he's openly unsettled by what it could mean to be honest. Will they wonder about Vlad and find themselves ensnared under his mind control as Charles and Shakespeare are? Will Comte himself be subjected to the mortifying ordeal of being known only to lose them?? That's a risk he isn't willing to take--and that leaves him in a double bind.

What is it that they say, the truth will set you free? This is where MC and Comte come into enormous play when it comes to Jeanne's recovery. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the people in the mansion have their own traumas they're trying to carry, and I feel like a lot of them are unsure how to approach Jeanne. Or if they do, he's very guarded. It takes a lot of consistent effort to get through to him. What does MC do when Jeanne unleashes his harsh worldview on her? She's understandably frightened, but Jeanne isn't malicious (so she chases him around). In fact, he openly avoids and runs away from her--well aware that what he's done is wrong. If anything, he did it on purpose, bringing us right back to Shakespeare's verbal undoing; why does Jeanne attack her in the first place?

LMAO. He attacks her because she essentially says "oh thanks for helping me!" "I am not nice. Watch yourself." "But you seem like a nice guy to me?" "REEEEEE" Does the pattern become a little clearer? When people think kindly of him, his instinct is to shatter that illusion with an impulsive reprehensible act. When people think poorly of him or lash out, what does he do? When that orphan boy starts yelling and screaming, Jeanne is nothing but calm. He explains the situation, and offers the kid a choice, perfectly happy to be the bearer of bad news. This operates on many levels I’m sure, but I have a feeling it has something to do with him being hailed a saint and a war hero only to be tortured and branded a monstrosity (and he probably thinks being a vampire is doubly monstrous). He’s more comfortable being hated because he feels it’s what he deserves in a lot of ways.

Jeanne has a lot of internalized self-hatred because of what he's done, and because of how much harm was inflicted on him outside of his control (he's Catholic and he was tortured, come on this writes itself). If I'm honest, I think that's actually the greater part of why he hates Comte lmao. Comte refuses the very concept of being cruel no matter how much Jeanne lashes out. Sure he lectures him and scolds him, but he never actively limits what's important to him or controls or harms him. Comte fully realizes the tragedy of how Jeanne's life was used by a nation in dire straits, and knows he needs time and acceptance to heal. No matter how dismal or unhappy, Comte doesn't stop--he fully believes Jeanne should have time in his life where he can really live for himself for once. But therein lies the issue, Jeanne doesn't know how to live for himself.

Which brings me to how MC and Comte "heal" Jeanne. I feel like they give him the space he needs to recover, and that's what results in his gentled temperament and happiness. Remember that so much of his main story is MC endlessly chasing after Jeanne. No amounts of his hissing or running or threatening stops her. Even if his refusals are empty of real dislike, they're enough to deter most people. Not MC. She's able to see through to the depths of who he is, and doesn't just use him for her own ends? She actively seeks to teach him (to read and write) to help him settle better in this era, she actively tries to ease his distaste for rain with a well-meaning bet, and she never gives up on him. (Actions mean so much more to him than words in general too, tbh...). Love is more easily defined by work and effort than it is by attraction.

When he has his episode at the festival, sure she's rattled; but that's because she truly believed that he didn't want to be around her anymore. When she notices he really doesn’t want to be followed, she stops like any normal person would. It’s only when she reads his notebook and sees the truth for herself (that he’s given up despite having the same feelings for her) that her determination is rekindled. She doesn't approach him fearfully, doesn't treat him like he's made of glass either. She just wants him as he is--accepts and loves him as he is. Scarred, bloody, exhausted, abrasive, terrified. She doesn't define him by how easy he is to love. That is a huge issue with traumatized people lmao. Because of their maturity, people always just assume they don't need help, or they rely on them to an extent that isn't sustainable. The second they reveal need or that they struggle, people walk away or victim blame them because it’s easier than taking them seriously.

While MC's attempts may be a little more obvious (cherishing his lily field, wearing the hair pin he gave her, careful about his gruesome injury, really listens when he talks about the horrors of his life and accepts that he experienced a level of agony/terror she can never understand, tries to express her feelings no matter his evasion) I think it's also important to consider Comte's large scale effort. I don't say this to undermine MC, I say it because Jeanne's life was defined by a complete lack of security. He left his parents to make their lives easier, he lived in a war that meant life or death any second, and his country's leader branded him a traitor which lead to his endless torture and public execution. Jeanne does not know a life in which safety is the norm. Point blank. He does not understanding going outside and not expecting the worst anymore.

Comte not only understands that level of despair, but treats it with dignity and respect. He fully accepts being hated if it means Jeanne can use that hatred to live on and find a way to heal. And most importantly, when Jeanne begins to move forward with MC and Mozart's help, Comte never once holds it against Jeanne when the truth is revealed. He's not angry, this isn't about reprisal or reparations or revenge. It's just love.

Jeanne doesn't really have a concept of this? His entire life was mostly transactional, defined by strength and efficiency. Nobody gives a damn about your feelings. You either hurl yourself at the problem or die. Nobody is going to help you or carry you or save you. While he may have had a little more support while he was in the military from his fellow soldiers, that support system was ripped away from him during the Inquisition.

One very common sentiment regarding elongated imprisonment and torture is that survival occurs in pairs. It is an undeniable fact that people need others to survive. It is the nature of who we are. Individualism has never proven to be successful, or if it is, its dividends are astronomically minimal when compared to people working together.

What does it mean to be the most reliable, steady person in the room? Usually it just means you don't know how to ask for help when you are no longer capable of maintaining that stance. Napoleon is guilty of it. Leonardo, Comte, and Jeanne all are too. It's part of why MC and Comte's capacity to see what he needs and provide as much as they can is such a big deal. That sort of consistent support (without a constant necessity to beg for help) allows Jeanne to be able to re-integrate into his new reality and find joy. Even if his nightmares and memories never go away, they are now being actively overrun by positive experiences. That's the thing about recovery, really--it tends to be more about drowning out the negative as much as possible and coming to terms with it, than it is about forgetting or never feeling it again. It’s about softening the sharp edges of pain like sea glass.

So is MC magical and randomly got Jeanne to open up? Nah, I don't think so. I think it was a series of persistence and real acceptance of who he is that made him warm up. People really seem to underestimate how deeply affecting understanding is, but that's how damage is undone. Jeanne can't really linger on the idea of his own monstrousness, his unworthiness, a lifetime of misery, when the person in front of him actively listens and cares about him. Makes him laugh and smile and lose himself in warmth for the first time.

If I'm honest, I feel like people also just...underestimate the level of traumatic resurgence that's perpetuated and inflicted by society’s standards in general lmao. This rhetorical structure in which good and bad exist in moral extremes, this idea that people should be able to recover and never experience relapses or periods of sensitivity. The refusal to radically listen to people and their problems, and make active attempts--not matter how small--to mend/ease those hurt feelings. Granted there will always be people in the world who do not want to improve, but I feel like most people want to. It's hopelessness, silence, and stigmatization that remain the true enemies of traumatized/mentally ill people everywhere. And among that population are always war veterans...

[mementofloreo-archived]

flowers he would give as gifts for the windblume festival are based heavily on his favorites, plus the nature of what he wants to convey to the receiver. for instance lisa(starsdescent's) is the first friend he made after moving to Monstadt. It's thanks to the kindness she's shown him that he is able to make more friends afterwards. In this regard, she's helped him open up or "bloom", so he would give her nap-at-noons, which only bloom at certain times of day and in sunny enough conditions.

for general friendly acquaintances or people he has interacted with regularly for adventuring work in monstadt he would probably gift an assortment of anemone, because they are also commonly called windflowers. It would be a gesture to show appreciation for helping him get settled in his new home. As for someone he is romantically interested in/attracted to... Nettle has little if any, experience with romance. Any he does have doesn't involve any kind of confession, dating or relationship- just an acknowledgment that he has a crush. He's never been approached or approached anyone else- so it's unlikely he'd use the windblume festival as an opportunity to make his feelings explicitly known. HOWEVER, he would still want to do something- a hint, just a little different from his other gifts, to let that person know they are particularly important to him(how they choose to interpret it beyond that is up to them).

To that end, he'd probably go with a selection of pink, white and yellow tulips. Pink: Caring, Good wishes, Friendship, Joyful Occasions, Confidence. All these connotations are ones he wants to communicate, so it would probably be the most plentiful. Yellow: Cheerful thoughts, Sunshine, Hope. These would also be central. Though he hasn't courage or confidence to actively pursue a crush or think they might return his feelings, Nettle still finds romantic love a happy and fulfilling feeling. It brings light and meaning into his life. White: Forgiveness, Remembrance, Worthiness, Sincerity. The last two are the ones he's going for here. Sincerity because he wants this person to understand they are genuinely and truly significant to him. Worthiness because even if he can't verbalize it, being able to be a positive part of their life in any way has made him feel better about himself, helped him be kinder to himself, made him more confident. okay that got long winded but listen i love plant symbolism---

nettle fun facts:

he uses the elemental powers granted by his vision as much for recreation/creative purposes as for combat. Growing flowers, for instance.

he loves all flowers! but he definitely makes sure to put together displays of kinds that grew around his previous hometown to spruce up his sister's shopfront- and he keeps a garden on the upstairs veranda of their second floor home that is just some personal favorite plants.

he'll also regularly grow small flowers to put in his hair.

some general favorite flowers of his are: -nap-at-noon (common star of bethlehem) -honeysuckle -speedwell -hollyhock -violets -forget-me-nots -white clover -roses(more for the scent than appearance but that's beside the point)