#especially after everything that happened to louis with lestat

[thelioncourts]

+

[dominantslasherking]

Armand With Dominant Male S/o pt 1

Backstory: Louis and Armand talk to Daniel about you. Armands, strange feelings and possessiveness of you is revealed. The obsession that Armand reveals for you is unsettling, Daniel can't help but wonder, what happened to you. Authors note: Tell me if you want part 2.

My Stories are meant for the much more mature audience, 18+

The dim light of the room flickered softly over the rich crimson drapes, casting long shadows that mirrored the weight of the conversation between Daniel, Louis, and Armand. The sound of the city outside was muffled, distant. It was just the three of them now, seated in that familiar, quiet tension. Daniel, ever the sharp observer, leaned forward in his chair, the recorder beside him whirring faintly, capturing every word.

Louis’ dark eyes flickered over to Armand, who sat with a distant expression, lost in thoughts of a time long past Almost weary of the current subject that was about to be, revealed. The interview had delved into old wounds, recounting moments of blood and betrayal, moments that were still vivid in Louis' mind. The play, the Theater of the Vampires, where he and Claudia had first met Armand and his brood. It was a time when everything was fragile—when the world had cracked open and bled.

Daniel was listening intently, following the story, but there was a glint of curiosity in his eyes, something unsaid hovering on his lips.

“And this is where Claudia asked to join them,” Daniel remarked, a small smile playing at the edge of his mouth. “Bold move. She never struck me as one to hesitate.”

Louis chuckled softly, a bitter edge to the sound. “Claudia was many things, but hesitant was never one of them.”

But then, Daniel shifted, leaning back in his chair, eyes narrowing as he steered the conversation in a different direction. “Speaking of companions…” he began, his tone measured, “there’s something I’ve been meaning to ask. You’ve mentioned so many characters from your past—Lestat, Claudia, Armand—but there’s one who seems to be missing from the puzzle.” Daniel’s gaze sharpened, settling on Armand, whose stillness had taken on a peculiar intensity.

“What about the vampire [Your Name]?”

Louis glanced at Armand, whose expression remained unreadable. The air between them felt thicker, charged with something unspoken. Armand’s dark eyes flickered with something that might have been longing, or perhaps possession, as if the mere mention of [Your Name] had awakened something deep and dormant within him.

“[Your Name],” Daniel repeated, leaning into the silence. “There’s not much written about him, but what I’ve found… well, it’s fascinating.” Daniel paused placing his recorder onto the table tappingsome files. "I mean anytime you did talk about your past, never once did you mention [Your Name] despite the hints in your story that seemed almost made up, as if you were...well I don't know, excluding someone?" Daniel let out a hum, Louis faked a smile.

Armand’s lips curled into a soft smile, though his eyes remained distant. “Fascinating, yes,” he murmured. “He always was.” Armand stayed calmly distracting Daniel from Louis for the time being.

Louis shifted uncomfortably in his seat. “[Your Name] was with us for a time after we… after we thought we had killed Lestat,” he explained, his voice quieter now, more careful. “He was an old friend, or at least, he felt like one. Claudia adored him. Treated him almost like a father, after Lestat.”

Daniel raised an eyebrow, his curiosity piqued. “A father figure? That’s interesting. Especially after… everything with Lestat.” Louis opened his mouth to respond, but the weight of the past pulled him under, drawing him into a memory he hadn’t revisited in years.

--

Claudia’s youthful laughter echoed softly in the apartment room, filtered through thick curtains. You sat with her at a grand oak desk, his quiet presence a soothing contrast to the chaos that often surrounded her. He held a delicate book in his hands, showing her the intricacies of calligraphy, his long fingers guiding hers with a gentle patience that was entirely foreign to Claudia’s previous life.

“Like this,” [Your Name] murmured, his voice soft but commanding. He demonstrated a fluid stroke, the pen moving with elegant precision. Claudia’s brow furrowed in concentration, her hands trying to mimic his movement, though frustration danced behind her eyes.

“I can’t do it,” she huffed, but there was no real anger. With [Your Name], there never was. Slowly your hand brushed against her dark and flawless skin

“You can,” he replied calmly. “You just need time. We all do.”

There was something calming in his presence, in the way he never rushed her or demanded perfection, unlike Lestat. He was patient, treating Claudia with a respect that neither Louis nor Lestat ever fully granted her. It was perhaps why she came to see him as more than just another companion—he was a guide, a teacher, a quiet fatherly figure.

Claudia’s smile returned, albeit faint, and she tried again, her tiny strokes improving under his watchful eye.

Louis, watching from the doorway, had always been struck by the way [Your Name] interacted with her. Unlike Lestat, who sought to mold Claudia into a creature of his own making, [Your Name] let her be free. He offered her the tools to learn but never forced her hand. ---

Louis nodded, though his gaze grew more distant, his mind drifting back to those long, haunting nights. “[Your Name] didn’t speak much,” Louis continued. “He was quiet, gentle, with an aura that suggested he had seen more of the world than any of us combined. Claudia trusted him, perhaps because he never tried to control her. He let her be free, let her learn. I… I never asked about his age, but I always suspected he was ancient. He had that look about him. That weight.”

Another flashback enveloped the room. [Your Name] sat in a dimly lit corner of their home, the flickering candlelight casting shadows over his face. He was hunched over a piece of parchment, a quill gliding smoothly across its surface as he wrote in deep concentration.

Louis, standing a few feet away, watched the scene quietly. He had often wondered what thoughts lingered behind those eyes, what worlds [Your Name] inhabited when he retreated into his silence. There was a timelessness to him, a stillness that unsettled even Louis.

The quill scratched softly against the paper as [Your Name] wrote, never pausing, never hesitating. A half-finished poem lay before him—lines that hinted at an eternal sadness, at an understanding of the world that Louis could only guess at.

"In shadows deep, we dance and fade, Unseen by time, in darkness laid. A fleeting touch, a whispered cry, We live forever, yet still we die."

Louis had never dared to ask about the poem, nor about the others like it that [Your Name] left unfinished. There was always a sense that those words were not meant to be shared, that they belonged to a part of [Your Name] that remained forever out of reach.

Armand’s eyes flicked over to Louis, a subtle smile on his lips. “You never understood him,” Armand said softly, his voice almost tender. “But Claudia did.”

The room seemed to freeze again, the gravity of Armand’s words hanging between them. There was something more, something deeper beneath his tone, but Louis didn’t respond. Instead, he let the silence stretch.

Daniel, however, was unwilling to let the moment pass without prodding further. “And what about his work? His poetry?”

At this, Armand’s expression faltered, his usual controlled demeanor slipping for a fraction of a second. His eyes narrowed ever so slightly, but Daniel caught it. He had been waiting for this moment.

“You mean his unfinished poems,” Daniel continued, flipping through his notebook. “It’s strange, isn’t it? So much of his work was lost or… incomplete. But there’s one poem that stands out. The one about Claudia.” He paused for dramatic effect before reading a few lines:

"In her eyes, a child—yet, never to grow, Trapped in a prison of eternal woe. Her heart beats, but not with life’s fire, A doll’s existence, never to expire."

Daniel looked up, meeting Armand’s gaze. “Unfinished, of course. But haunting, nonetheless. It almost feels like he was trying to capture her essence, but couldn’t quite bring himself to finish the thought. Why do you think that is?”

Armand’s eyes darkened, a flicker of something dangerous passing over his features. “Because some things are too painful to complete,” he said, his voice low and deliberate. “Even for a vampire as old as [Your Name].”

Daniel held Armand’s gaze for a long moment before turning back to Louis. “So, he was there, part of your little family, but never truly part of it. An outsider, despite being… what, centuries old?”

Louis nodded. “He was always elusive. A shadow. There, but never fully with us. But in his own way, he cared for Claudia. I believe he loved her… as much as a creature like him could love.” Daniel snorted at Louis calling the other vampire a creature, amusing really.

Armand’s expression softened, but his eyes still held that possessive gleam. “[Your Name] was more than just a companion,” Armand said quietly, his voice dripping with something more intimate, something obsessive. “He was an artist. A mind that saw the world in ways none of us could comprehend. And in that, he was perfect.”

Daniel raised an eyebrow, sensing the depth of Armand’s obsession. “It sounds like you were quite fond of him, Armand.”

“Fond?” Armand’s lips curled into a dangerous smile. “Fond doesn’t even begin to describe it.” He glanced at Louis, then back at Daniel, his gaze sharpening. “But I suppose you’ll find that out in time, won’t you?”

The room fell silent again, the weight of the past pressing down on all of them. Armand’s obsession with [Your Name] hung in the air, unspoken but palpable, and Daniel knew that this was only the beginning. The dim lighting of the room cast long shadows across the walls as Daniel’s voice cut through the tense air. He glanced between Louis and Armand, history lingering just beneath the surface. Louis sat stiffly, avoiding Armand’s gaze, his expression unreadable but tight with an underlying tension.

"So, how did you first meet [Your Name]?" Daniel inquired, breaking the silence. He leaned forward in his chair, eyes sharp as he caught the subtle exchange between the two vampires, but his quesion was clearly direced at Armand. Louis shifted uncomfortably, his eyes momentarily meeting Daniel’s before darting away. His hands fidgeted slightly in his lap as if the very mention of [Your Name] was enough to unravel something within him. “I need a moment,” Louis muttered, standing abruptly. Without another word, he exited the room, leaving an awkward silence in his wake.

Daniel raised an eyebrow, curiosity piqued further by Louis’ reaction. “That was… strange. He usually holds his composure better.”

Armand watched Louis leave, a small, knowing smile playing at the corners of his lips. His dark eyes flicked back to Daniel. “Louis is complicated when it comes to [Your Name].” His voice was calm, but there was an unmistakable undercurrent of possessiveness.

Daniel tilted his head, intrigued. “What do you mean by that?”

Armand leaned back, folding his hands together as he considered his words. “Louis… admired [Your Name], perhaps even more than he admitted to himself. He loved him, in a way. But he never acted on it. He feared what might happen if he did. He worried about Claudia, about rejection. Louis has always been a creature ruled by guilt.”

Daniel’s brow furrowed. “So, you’re saying Louis was in love with [Your Name]?”

Armand gave a slow, deliberate nod. “Yes, but Louis’ love is often restrained by fear. He couldn’t risk what they had, the balance they had established. He was content with the idea of [Your Name] being there, even if he never fully pursued his desires. But me…” Armand’s smile grew, dark and intimate. “I wasn’t as restrained.”

“Obsessed?” Daniel offered, his eyes gleaming with interest.

Armand’s smile deepened, his gaze far away now as he recalled the moment that had changed everything. “Obsessed,” he repeated softly. “I first met [Your Name] at a play. I was performing for humans, entertaining them with our little charade. But when I saw him…” Armand’s voice trailed off, and the room seemed to darken as the flashback began. ---

The theater was crowded with the lively chatter of the mortal audience, the scent of cheap perfume and candle wax heavy in the air. The dim light of chandeliers flickered across the stage as the actors performed, though Armand’s attention was no longer on the play.

Seated among the audience was a figure unlike anyone Armand had ever seen. [Your Name], with his sharp jawline and hauntingly smoky red eyes, sat in the back row, a quill in hand as he scribbled across a piece of parchment. His attention wasn’t on the performance but rather on whatever he was writing, his lips barely moving as his thoughts flowed onto the page.

Armand, playing his role on stage, felt his concentration waver. The beauty of [Your Name] was undeniable—he was like a statue carved from marble, perfect and distant, entirely uninterested in the mundane theater around him. His very presence seemed to command the room in a way that no mortal could.

As the play continued, Armand found his gaze drawn back to [Your Name] again and again. There was something magnetic about him, something beyond mere physical attraction. It was as if [Your Name] belonged to another world, and Armand could not resist the pull of that world.

Unable to focus any longer on the play, Armand had finished early, much to the 'awes' of the mortals watching. He made his way discreetly toward the back of the theater, his eyes never leaving [Your Name]. The other actors continued their performance, oblivious to his distraction, as Armand approached.

When he was close enough, he could see the quill moving smoothly over the parchment, the words forming beneath [Your Name]’s skilled hand. His expression remained impassive, though there was a subtle grace to the way his jaw moved as he focused. His beauty was mesmerizing—those sharp, defined features, the way his fingers held the quill with delicate precision.

“Enjoying the play?” Armand’s voice was low, but it held a teasing edge.

[Your Name] didn’t look up immediately. Instead, he finished the line he was writing before raising his eyes to meet Armand’s. His gaze was piercing, deep red with an ancient wisdom that sent a thrill through Armand.

“Not particularly,” [Your Name] replied smoothly, his voice calm but with an underlying sharpness. “I’ve seen better.”

Armand smiled, intrigued by the indifference in [Your Name]’s tone. He had expected someone as striking as this to be swept up in the grandeur of the theater, yet here he was, completely unimpressed.

“I’m sorry we couldn’t entertain you,” Armand said, though there was no sincerity in his apology. Instead, his eyes lingered on [Your Name]’s form, taking in every detail—how his clothes fit perfectly against his body, the way the flickering candlelight cast shadows across his face, making him look almost ethereal.

“You seem distracted,” [Your Name] remarked, his eyes narrowing slightly. “Shouldn’t you be focusing on your performance?”

Armand chuckled softly. “Perhaps, but I’ve found something far more interesting.” His gaze lingered, making his intent clear.

[Your Name] raised an eyebrow, his expression unreadable. “Is that so?” --

The flashback faded as Armand’s voice broke through the memory, returning Daniel and the present audience to the dimly lit room. Armand’s eyes were dark with longing, his tone soft as he spoke again.

“That was the first time I saw him,” Armand murmured, his voice almost reverent. “He captivated me in a way no one ever had before. There was something… otherworldly about him. From that moment on, I knew I had to have him, despite the fact that I was...Occupied with Louis at this time”

Daniel remained quiet, letting the weight of Armand’s words settle in the room. The intensity of Armand’s obsession was palpable, and it was clear that this story was far from over

[cbrownjc]

Hi there! I'm sorry if this feels super obtuse and it has been ages since I read the novels, BUT...

After this recent episode I was a little confused about what Armand had done to infuriate Louis and Daniel so much. If he simply wiped their memories so neither Louis or Daniel didn't remember everything that went down, that doesn't seem so awful, especially since what went down WAS awful. So I think I must have missed something substantial because I was distracted by my cat, or something. 😅

BTW I love your blog and all the fantastic insight you provide! I used to be ride or die with IWTV but haven't paid much attention to it in the last 15-20 years, so I'm finding it immensely helpful for getting back into the swing of things!

Hello!

So why Louis and Daniel are so angry at Armand isn't because Armand simply erased their memories. (And, to be clear, their memories weren't actually erased, but just clouded over and blocked). Armand rewrote them. Armand basically reprogrammed Daniel and Louis' minds after the OG interview, Louis' mind especially.

That was what that final scene was about, what it was demonstrating. The answer that Louis gave at the beginning of the episode, as to why Armand saved Daniel's life in 1973 was a word-for-word repeat of what Armand's own answer was at the end of the episode to that same question.

The answer wasn't something Louis truly felt wrt his own real feelings. It was something Armand put into Louis' mind to think and say about the incident after the events of it from Louis attacking Daniel on were blocked and clouded over.

As @virginiaisforvampires notes here, the way Louis speaks of Lestat in the OG interview vs the new interview is very telling wrt that reprogramming done. Yes, in the OG interview, Louis was talking down Lestat in spiteful ways, but it was all surface-level stuff. Just saying that the way Lestat spoke revealed how stupid he was and that he wasn't at all skilled when trying to play music.

That is all a far cry from the things Louis has said and spoken about in the Dubai interview about Lestat. Lestat's crimes, as they are being talked about in this second interview, are not just surface-level transgressions said to simply make Lestat angry and draw him out, as Louis was originally trying to do back in 1973. The crimes of Lestat laid out in the Dubai interview, in contrast, are very much there to justify the murder of Lestat.

Because without that justification?

Well, we see that starting when it comes to the false memory -- yes, false -- of Louis thinking Claudia couldn't burn Lestat. Louis thinking that -- that Claudia couldn't burn Lestat -- would take away Louis' guilt at having stopped Claudia from trying to burn Lestat if it was something they both couldn't do. Especially if the killing of Lestat had been justified.

But if there was no justification for killing Lestat? Then the reason Louis stopped Claudia from burning Lestat was because Louis knew that killing Lestat had been wrong. Louis knew it the night Claudia did it, which would be the real reason why he stopped her from burning him.

And because Lestat didn't burn, because he was still alive, that led to the events of the trial in Paris and what happened to Claudia there. And what is looking to be the show's version of the Merrick reveal about Claudia's true feelings wrt Louis. Which, in the book Merrick, the revelation of that is what sent Louis to try to destroy himself via sunlight exposure, as we saw him try to do back in 1973 -- which the cocaine and other drugs that were in Daniel's blood had Louis unable to either ignore anymore -- or lifted a veil that had been placed over his mind about it until then.

Do you see the cascade effect in all of this?

And look, maybe some will see what Armand has done here as not that awful, but Armand didn't do it just to try and protect Louis. That was very damn clear when he didn't relay Lestat's full "I love you" message to Louis after Louis' 1973 attempt to end his life. It's because part of Armand very much still wants to live with the illusion that he and Louis can be happy together, even after what happened in Paris and Armand's role in those events.

I've said before that Armand's flaw when it comes to love is that he will go way, way, WAY overboard to obtain or keep love. And this is all just, once again, him repeating that pattern. Armand rewrote Louis' memories of both Lestat and Claudia's actions all to try and assuage the true guilt and pain Louis has over everything that happened and Louis' own role (mostly due to his own inactions) in it all that has led to such suicidal guilt about it, but also because IMO Armand wishes to hide -- as much as he can -- his own role in everything that happened as well . . . and all of this so as to keep Louis by his side so that Louis doesn't leave him -- be it for Lestat, or even in death.

Armand isn't being altruistic in his reprogramming of Louis' mind and memories. Because really being so would have been not only telling Louis what Lestat was trying to relay to Louis back in 1973 but then probably having to let Louis go as well . . . let Louis go back to and be with Lestat, the person who Louis was trying to draw the attention of with that whole OG interview in the first place.

Honestly, I see the whole situation as kind of expanding on this line of Louis' in the book, as he and Armand are breaking up:

And when I came to Paris I thought you were powerful and beautiful and without regret, and I wanted that desperately. But you were a destroyer just as I was a destroyer, more ruthless and cunning even than I. You showed me the only thing that I could really hope to become, what depth of evil, what degree of coldness I would have to attain to end my pain. And I accepted that. And so that passion, that love you saw in me, was extinguished. And you see now simply a mirror of yourself.

With the rewriting/reprogramming of Louis' memories, this is very much what Armand has created with Louis in many ways -- a mirror of himself. The pieces of himself that Armand blocked and changed had Louis "knowing who he was" . . . but who that person is, isn't the real Louis. Just a reflection of the person who made those changes.

So yeah, that is where the anger is coming from. Moreso Louis than Daniel when it comes to the rewriting aspect of it all I'd say; Daniel is likely just angry that his mind was messed with in the first place. One thing you can say about Daniel is that he's brutally honest, even when it comes to his own foibles. He's the type who'd rather know all the horrible shit that happened to him, than not.

Anyway, I'm glad you like my blog and comments about the show, and I hope this answer explains some of it for you. 🙂

[blueiight]

“what can the damned really say to the damned?” is what this episode asks. and well… “nothing.” is what the show answers us with.

we are introduced to louis and claudia as ultimate outcasts to the mortals around them and vampiredom: louis attempts to maintain the illusions of humanity in similar structures once more, casting grace as his lost wife and claudia as his daughter, as claudia seeks to find other vampires. armand, clearly pissed about the interview as is, decides to draw upon 150 years of prior work experience as a playwright toward the end of this episode, which is quite frankly, a bit much considering how daniel’s already scared shitless. and theres a terrible romantic specter in europe following louis thats named lestat. its a lot going on here, and im bound to not cover everything. i do want to cover dreamstat, and me and you(5x) but i will wait for the season to progress to do that^_^

‘He asked me if we could go home. Home? Can there be a more offensive question? Run back to New Orleans. Pry up his bones, why don’t you? Louis de Pointe du Lac, dead weight.’

louis and claudia’s tension in this particular episode revolve around the killing — or the betrayal that prevented the killing — of lestat. et tu, louis? stowaways on ships, trains, and wagons and a totally alien environment where even the blood is hostile to them, is it any wonder louis dreams of lestat? is it any wonder, having access to louis’s mind, in pursuit of some understanding of vampires beyond the facismile of the nuclear structure, that claudia continues to feel betrayed? i always think to myself, if claudia had qualities that made the average fan more sympathetic to her, would they understand how she was betrayed by louis specifically that night? would they be able to sympathize with claudia’s incredible perserverance despite, and because of, everything thats happened to her? and how that betrayal is the underlying tragedy and romance alike of the narrative that made 1940 mardi gras’s aftermath so haunting that louis in dubai did not remember it or was made not to until the other night?

following that in the flashbacks is when dreamstat first appears, clearly an extension of louis’s own mind at this own point, and he asks louis:

Four years of grim wayfaring, and still no sight of the benevolent vampire. So how does denial manifest itself tonight? … Was she worth it?

its so telling that lestat is the image louis calls upon to embody his most bitter feelings toward claudia in this sequence. dreamstat deserves his own breakdown, especially in relation to louis& claudia’s conversation when she first finds the revenant, as well as the wider events in dubai…

speaking of revenants, morgan in the show is a proto-daniel of sorts an abandoned journalist whos interest in photography exposes the illusion of grace the wife and claudia the impossible daughter, and tries to understand louis through the perspective of the mortal hes been given — did he go AWOL, or is he a black bolshevik? louis when questioned absconds, and closes up what little of himself he’s sold to morgan. its a smart way to include him in the narrative, as morgan is witness to emilia’s beheading after she was attacked by said revenant… and louis turns his head, truly embodying the detachment of the vampire in this moment. human affairs, their problem. this is a really good example of whats meant by ‘human affairs’ in the show, by the way. this episode features claudia & louis facing racism from military to children, and thats not framed as a ‘human affair’, but as one of many haunting aspects of their immortal existences.

claudia, in the pursuit for vampires, continues the metaphor of adoption in how she tries to find some sort of companionship and her current understanding of romania as this ancestral home to the vampire. whats also noticeable here is how claudia trying to make sense of centuries of legends is a striking parallel to how louis in the present day attempts to make sense of whats ‘true’ and ‘untrue’ from her diaries. claudia’s private accounts in the present that she never intended to be so deeply analyzed as anything other than her internal narrative in the moments she wrote them has become, to louis, a similar sort of legend thats necessary to decode for his own sense of self.

She writes here, ‘I do not dream.’ I can confirm that. At least, that’s what she said to me once when I was talking about one of my dreams which were erratic and often in those years. Of course, she might’ve just said that to shut me up, but yet… she writes it here so… let’s believe it. She continues. ‘We traveled light in our ancestral home. We slept in the earth, took circuitous routes around the mad army goose-stepping its way toward mother Russia…’

I woke that night to the sound of chaos erupting nearby. Claudia was, uh.. . she was dreaming. Her head twitching like you would. […] No, I can feel her. I can feel her next to me. She’s having a nightmare. What’s worse than a nightmare? If your soul’s projecting out its fears, at least it’s up and running. But the absence of anything? The void, the nothing, pieces… coming back. Hours, nights, objects surfacing in water… It was just something she’d wrote. But it wasn’t true. She could dream.

dubai louis’s recollection of claudia and the existential dread of eternally being damned, the terror of lacking a soul, a rather catholic fear but still having a sequence of memories that cycle back into an immortal brain, replay in this inversed sleep cycle, can be malleable, forgotten, poke a hole in louis’s attempt to utilize claudia’s diaries as but an extension of his own narrative, and offers a glimpse at what is truly at stake in this second interview.

[shesnake]

I wanted to know your thoughts on this but do you think it's fair to say either Louis or Armand are abusive in their relationship? Idek if this is a valid angle to view the characters from because I guess they're all monsters or whatever but a part of me thinks that it's kinda lukewarm to refuse to engage with the complicated themes of the show, which abuse is featured heavily and pretty clearly imo. This isn't aimed at you btw. Something I noticed is people tend to use some of Louis's less favorable moments to justify the violence he experiences. Like that post about Armand just matching Louis energy in ep 5, most of the notes are taking the stance that Louis is a cold, unempathic pimp who doesn't care about sa victims, that Armand genuinely is completely right when he says he is always cleaning up after Louis that he was only worried and tenderhearted and Louis escalated in the worst way and that after Louis said that he deserved everything that happened after. And I may be biased but to me that is so fucking crazy. To me it seems like fans, specially nonblack fans, have zero empathy for black abuse victims, actively enacting abuse culture even. But idk if that is a too reactive view. I don't want to say Louis isn't flawed because he is. But I mean we are watching the season about Armand getting Claudia killed on purpose and somehow people are still like Maybe Armand didn't do it, maybe it was all Louis, maybe Louis really asked for it. All of it. I think there's a problem there but idk I kinda feel a little crazy too. Btw disclaimer I fuckin hate Lestat this is not about comparing Loumand/Loustat lol

hi! and wow there is so much to discuss here...

I think it is fair to describe the actions of both Louis and Armand towards each other as abusive by definition but it's always important to remember that it is Armand in the position of greater power over him. Armand is older, stronger, owns dominion. He can walk in the sun, manipulate memories, and live without constant debilitating hunger for blood - all of which are things that impede Louis from being his own person outside of Armand.

Louis also faced this same predicament when he was with Lestat, but unlike Armand who uses his own innate powers against Louis, Lestat mostly used his social advantages of whiteness, wealth etc in addition to withholding key knowledge about vampirism to keep himself in control and Louis dependent on him.

and sure Louis can lash out all he wants! He can mock Armand's sexual trauma (trauma which Armand himself already gets them both to fetishise... but that's a whole different conversation...) he can hit back when Lestat hits him but when he's with either of those guys he is always going to be the victim. Nothing shitty he does to his partners, or to Claudia, or to Daniel, justifies what is being done to him by these men.

There absolutely has to be anti-blackness involved in any argument that says Louis deserves any of this. (Of course Armand as a brown South Asian man is not immune from fandom racism but his treatment is racialised in a different way that is also a different conversation). Any negative behaviour from a Black man is going to be seen by racists as exponentially more aggressive than it is, especially the cross-section with those you mentioned who aren't engaging with the complicated themes of this show exploring abuse.

They can see that Louis yelling at Armand is bad, but don't notice that Armand is being manipulative. They can see that Louis stabbing Lestat that one time during sex is bad (and still sexualise it), but don't notice that Louis is disassociating in every sex scene he has with Lestat afterwards (because they're too busy sexualising it). They can see that Louis making Daniel upset is bad, but don't notice that Daniel has been leveling dozens of racist and homophobic micro-aggressions at him since episode 1.

Armand got a few minutes to tell his tragic backstory in Louvre, Lestat had 2 or 3 different scenes in season 1 to recall his own. It's just been words. Meanwhile racists erase Louis' experiences with trauma because they never had enough fucking empathy for him to begin with to even register it happening to him! on screen! in real time! right in front of us!

And yeah Louis and Armand and Loumand are incredibly complex and compelling, and I do enjoy seeing Louis' moments of cruelty towards Armand! But he's never going to win against him in the game Armand built for him.

And in terms of Claudia, I do think that Louis failed her, as he has always failed her. And is responsible for her death in that regard. But that failure involved letting those other two fucking sharks eat her!!! I personally haven't seen anyone pushing the blame completely off Armand and onto Louis but I wouldn't be surprised. This week I've more pissed off about people levelling it all on Armand and think of Lestat as an unwilling participant.... this is of course the blonde white vampire show....

anyways sorry this is so long! thanks for the message this was really interesting to think about.

[bombasticsalt]

Loustat and Loumand love vs fascination (take this analysis with no grammar because it's 1am)

One of the scenes that really sticks out to me with Loumand in season two is when Louis tells Armand he loves him and dreamstat starts laughing it's crazy because if this were a Louis and Lestat scene it would have been framed as dramatic and their would have been tears but it's comedic almost when Louis and Armand do it especially when you remember that we never see Louis tell Lestat he loves him yet we as the audience can obviously see he did. Both Armand and Lestat stalked Louis and they both had some sort of soft spot for him before they even actually talked to him and yet, look at how different the way Louis views their first meeting as he says he left the meeting with Lestat thinking only of him but Lestat was real he said things that he meant with Armand it's almost like their meeting is framed as some meetcute he says I will not harm you which yeah sounds sweet until you consider the fact that meetings later he talks about killing Louis. Ever since they met Armand has been presenting himself as a sheep in wolfs clothing and you can say a lot about Lestat but for all his acting he showed Louis who he really was before Louis got in too deep he shows Louis his temper he shows Louis his passions his ramblings his privilege everything I think that says something that Armand would rather pretend to be anything else but what he is a dangerous predator.

And the worst part is it still doesn't work sure love at first sight wasn't something to expect in a gothic romance but listen to how Louis describes meeting Lestat he wanted to be the man and murder the man when Louis was at the party getting ready to kill Lestat he still wanted him all to himself there was this passion for Lestat since their first meeting yeah sure Louis at the moment thinks of this memory fondly but at that time when it happened he was confused like the scene was almost eerily sweet to me

I don't think Louis feels absolutely nothing for Armand I think Louis thinks he loves Armand or at least Armand interests him at first he loves armand in the way you love a spring fling that you don't expect to last through the winter it's fun, interesting and new and that's the main problem with Loumand it lasted way longer than it should have because both Louis and Armand can't be alone a spring fling is nice during the spring when you're bored and depressed but what about when you have a thousand other things you could be doing and you're stuck in a marriage thats like a candle that went out almost five seconds after you lit it for 77 years when the person stops being interesting and fun what's really left of the relationship? Love? Yeah sure maybe but not when you know there's a person out there you loved more than anybody else somebody like Lestat

I feel like this is further proved by how Lestat and Armand react to the boys Louis confides in, for Lestat it was Jonah he got mad about Jonah because he famously heard their hearts dancing and felt the affection Louis had for Jonah especially since Lestat was a lot for Louis. It seems like Lestat thought Louis could fall in love with Jonah and leave him and for Lestat leaving equates with somebody not loving him anymore what threatens Lestat is the idea Louis might not love him and that's ultimately what Lestat wants love he needs attention more than we ever see him need blood he's greedy for it. However, with Daniel he didn't even sleep with Louis so what threatens Armand isn't that Louis might not love him anymore it's that Louis finds Daniel more interesting than him because I think deep down that Armand knows that their love was short lived and the only reason why Louis was still with him was desperation and fascination because Armand knows things even though Louis isn't exactly always curious about vampires he taught Louis how to use fire he does know things that prove useful he clearly doesn't care all that much about the great laws if he let Daniel live this experience because it was never about the great laws it's about Lestat the first interview was a call out to Lestat from Louis and Armand knew that I'm not saying love isn't involved but I'm saying I believe in my opinion it was more about him not wanting Louis to leave because Armand believes he needs a master he needs somebody else to pretend like they have control over him sure yeah him calling Louis Maitre is just for fun he doesn't have to listen to Louis in fact he doesn't listen to Louis sure he keeps Daniel alive but also he turns Daniel eventually Armand is so interesting to me because Armand is a puppet master who wants to feel like a puppet because he never really realized he got cut loose from his strings that's why he potrays himself as helpless even his clothes are meant to make him seem smaller than he actually is he makes people do things for him indirectly TWICE he lets Lestat and Louis destroy his cult coven and then hides behind the words I could not prevent it. Both Lestat and Armand are afraid that Louis will leave them but for different reasons Lestat's afraid Louis will leave him because Louis doesn't love him and Armand literally fucking tortures Daniel aesthetictly just because he's afraid Louis finds him boring he has to be fascinating or else Louis will leave.

Another reason that really shows the differences between Love and fascination is what Louis says to both of them when he wants to hurt them, Louis tells Lestat that's why he's always going to be alone and why they won't work because Louis knows Lestat he knows the thing that will hurt Lestat more than anything else is threatening to take his love and affection away and leave him all alone because Lestat is also a part of the three musketeers of making bad decisions because he can't handle being alone, with Armand though Louis calls him boring because for Louis the worst possible thing to say to Armand isn't I won't love you anymore and I'll leave it's you're boring something that hurts Armand worse if Armand isn't fascinating or fun to Louis then what's the point? What's the point to be in a marriage of spite what's the point of living if Claudia is dead Lestat fucked off to God knows where after the trial and Louis's only companion has lost all the traits that make him want to stay but Louis would rather die than be alone and unloved. But for Loumand the words I love you are like a dagger in both instances when Louis says it (it's fucking 3:46 am if they say it more than twice I'll edit) it's mocked dreamstat laughs Louis laughs while saying it in San Frisco. Love is a weapon when Louis verbally says it after Paul's death. In fact Louis not saying he loves Lestat seems more romantic than him telling Armand he does. Because we as the viewers know he loves Lestat in the way he talks about him, the way he remembers Lestat's ramblings, the way he reacts to Lestat telling him about Magnus, because even though Louis memory has bias ultimately he remembers Lestat as this beautiful monster who he was in love with we're shown that he loves him. But with Armand and Louis we're told their in love but when is it shown with Loustat their was an intimacy in the shadows because they were in a openly homophobic town but with Loumand their relationship seems more like a performance they hold hands in public but in private they're divided when Louis was supposedly falling in love with Armand in Paris he says they aren't companions to Santiago and I think that's why Armand lied about saving Louis because that was the only major thing he could do that would make Louis want to stay, Lestat turned Claudia for Louis in his love Lestat brought the azalea for Louis because he loves him he shows Louis he loves him but what does Armand do? He threatens to kill Louis he won't turn Madeline for Louis sure he tells Louis he loves him but it's not shown not like how Lestat's love is. AND LESTAT DOES IT AGAIN he saves Louis again he proves that he loves Louis again when Armand can't or won't the only thing is the opportunity presented itself where Armand could take the credit for it he could please the coven and keep the guy at the same time because if Armand wouldn't have taken credit for that they wouldn't have stayed together he would have left. Would Louis have gotten back together with Lestat? Probably not but the point is the 77 years wouldn't have happened. Daniel calls it a seismic lie because it is that's what the relationship is based on that's the reason Louis stayed because he felt like he owed it to Armand and that's why he doesn't hesitate to leave Armands when he learns it.

I think that's what makes Loumand so interesting is that Louis doesn't want someone soft he wants the chaos back of Lestat once it's taken away he doesn't want a manipulative pillow who hides all his flaws and does everything he says he wants Lestat who screams back at him with the same passion that burns like a furnace Lestat who can't help but be so passionate about everything he does Lestat who does too much and that passion makes Lestat feel so human even when he's doing the most inhumane things whereas Armand acts as if he's above it all like he's some type of God but also portraying himself as weak and helpless in other situations that makes him so inhumane which could also be why Daniel ends up falling for him.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Pre season 2 rant - heavy on sarcasm!

This is the... well by now somewhat meditated on rant I promised a while ago. It has a lot of cussing, so be warned.

It is a… summary comment about some views I‘ve seen around, from “bad writing“ to the “abuse“ and other things. Oh, and it's about the "lying" subject. With receipts!

I‘m getting this out of my system before season 2 hits, and before more of the press leading up to it is released, because cast, crew and writers as well as the show have given us all of it already and, tbh, if I‘m going to see anyone scream “bad writing“ or “Louis being made a liar or the memories revisited/changed is racism“ when the changes will hit I‘m just gonna block you.

Fair warning.

This is long… so under the cut.

This show has made color-conscious choices. Brilliantly so. They also have an astonishing meta level.

And what we saw was not the truth.

That much is clear now. HAS ACTUALLY BEEN CLEAR FROM THE END OF SEASON 1 ON.

Jacob has said at the TCA panel that Louis is trying to regain his true memories.

Here is a reminder of some key statements by cast and crew:

Here are interviews and statements by Assad and Jacob and Sam and Rolin and the writers & producers that what we have seen was not the (whole) truth, that Louis’ tale has been “tinkered” with, influenced.

I'm heroically refraining from adding the gifs of Rolin and his statement again. Which are from the episode insider… and remember when that aired?! Yeah… 😒

But I've seen things recently that make me want to pull my hair out, to be frank. For example this, behind the link:

...Like, not making him a whole flat ass liar is actually the point, guys. And no it does not undermine the story....

As the writers said:

I mean, I get it to an extent. It's becoming clearer and clearer that the show some people made up in their heads is not the one they'll be getting. (We've been trying to tell them, but hey.)

Yeah.... That.

Unfortunately @blackgirlasis has blocked me, (and I have returned the favor now that I noticed), we only discussed something recently, but I think the reason might have been after I posted that video, in which it is literally said that "not everything Louis says is a lie", which, given her statements here might speak for itself, especially this part of that statement:

"It is actually ACTIVELY harmful to perpetuate the idea that the Black characters aren't to be trusted with the narrative and that we need Lestat to come through with the honest accounting."

You know, I would actually agree! Which is also why I always emphasized that we did not get the WHOLE truth. I also kept more than hinting at the fact that Armand is, well Armand.

BUT - and here it gets interesting - why is JACOB's - a BLACK man's - statement discarded? Why do they do not want to hear it that Louis does, in fact, lie? And, just to be clear - I do not NEED Louis to lie, nor be proven a liar, and I think the show will do its damndest to explain via the "tinkering" that Armand did. They will give some of the blame to Armand.

But to flip one's shit over argumentation that the MAIN CHARACTER, a BLACK MAN has already stated... that is what I find interesting.

Like, why do you* (*generally spoken, not her especially) accuse people of racism over this, when HE has already said that Louis does, indeed, lie. Why is he not actually listened to? I don't get that. Why is agency taken away from a living, breathing person to give it to a fictional character? Why is his statement that "not all representation needs to be healthy representation" not kept in mind?

Louis is Louis. Louis being color-consciously handled didn't "change the character an awful lot".

JACOB said that. Here. Interestingly enough in a comment about the racial consideration the show does(!).

Louis is NOT a whole other character despite the changes, and the twists that will happen in season 2 were always set to come, as the friggin' video of BEFORE the show aired is proof of. They talked about all that. They know it didn't all happen as shown. They knew Louis did lie. But NOT about everything.

They also knew that some of the scenes did not happen (at least as shown). And now... "it’s clear that Louis is somebody hugely angry with a man he loved deeply and now presents them as a monster…" Also Jacob Anderson.

Presents. Them. As. A. Monster.

Bailey Bass said in the SDCC interview, that it is not clear who is the "villain here" in various scenes, interestingly enough, because the dynamic keeps changing. Which of course was after they shot a myriad of scenes that would not make it into the final s1 cut. Again: why is she not listened to? Why do you take her agency away to give it to a fictional character?

And I'm not even starting on the others. Sam. Rolin. The writers.

Also, re the abuse and scenes being revisited. Again, screenshot as example:

There is nothing simple about this show. Especially that scene.

BUT the show knows what it‘s doing! I'm not going to rehash all that here now, here are links on that.

AND THE WRITERS SAYING IT WILL BE REVISITED... is from December 21, 2022.

DECEMBER 22.

A revisit and a change of that scene will not be bad writing. (Or tasteless.) They already DID so in the last episode of season 1, continuing that will simply fall into line with what we have already been given. That's not bad writing. That's just the show, and there's people who just did not want to examine that.

Because it will be echoed, and it will serve a purpose.

I know the show did the meta level of patriarchal domestic abuse, but for fuck‘s sake, the story itself is about vampires struggling, and Louis is struggling.

The show has a meta level of abuse, and patriarchy, and recognizing is valid and the meta discussions are too.

But Louis is not chained to his coffin guys, he could have left, and a fight which shows off power discrepancies within the show story line is not automatically domestic abuse.

*slow clap*

No-one wants this to happen for the sake of "redeeming" Lestat. Because he does not need that redemption. They're all murderers and monsters.

They kill. For a living. LITERALLY.

THEY ARE VAMPIRES It's not about vampires trying to find their humanity.

It's about vampires trying to find a way to live with themselves, because they are, indeed, monsters.

Doubting the narrative which was TORN APART WITHIN THE SHOW is not the same as bad writing or racism FFS, nor is actually looking at what we're given - and knowing the fucking, 50 year old books. And recognizing the hints and parallels.

I have also seen the take that Lestat isolated Louis... and like, did we watch the same show? You know, even with the vampirism (which, of course™, could not free Louis as promised)...

Months of flirting openly in NOLA, public wooing. DECADES LIVING IN NOLA. Operas. Restaurants. Family dinners. (And Louis stopping Lestat there, AS a mortal...) Cleaning the cribs, years of "human entanglement" because Louis wanted it.... Banjo barbecues, political influence, wakes... Everybody knew.

(Like, I could pull up gifs here.)

"Isolation". Right. It has nothing, at all, to do with the Rite of Passage, or Louis' depression.

Of course not.

I mean, Jacob says that Louis is very depressed during the time leading up to the fight, and his and Sam's discussion here is interesting as well, but hey, I mean, why listen to the actual black actor, right.

As a last thing.

Yeah. Tell me you know nothing about the books without telling me you know nothing about the books.

And, as a note, context is important if you pull up other scenes from the VC.

Welcome to the fucking Vampire Chronicles.

Anyone expecting big bad patriarchal abuser Lestat is not going to have a good time.

And honestly, to those: don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Good riddance - and BON VOYAGE

[obaaaa]

There are 4 episodes establishing Loumand dissolving, it wasn't sudden, all the reaction that people expected already happened in the previous episodes... Louis was just at peace with it! Also not reacting full on destructive in one of his mania outbursts, breaks expectations to show that he no longer needs Armand to stay sane, it shows maturity and finally he can be dependent on himself. All the warning to fear him, for Daniel to get out of there as quickly as possible, until the explosion of Armand's impact on the wall, the natural thing to expect it would be Louis destroying that Penthouse out of control, but in the end he holds hands with Daniel.

Now that's how i see the Loumand tale, First Armand made the decision in episode 3 after the coven gave him an ultimatum, he fell in love with Louis and went as far as he could to make it reciprocal and try to avoid his death, but he knew that everything for Louis would end in Lestat. So in the bar scene when Madeleine talks about feeling Louis' love for Armand, it was too late for him to do anything, the decision had already been made "Louis will die and i will move on!" Now when Lestat saves Louis from death, It's Armand's second chance to have him, that's why he leaves him "buried" for days, it's all the time he had to reflect about the new chance!

From Louis' perspective, when he's starting to give in to Armand all hell breaks loose. Armand finally has Louis but at what cost? He's an even more broken thing, that is only with him now to make Lestat suffer, Armand is back to square one but finally has Louis for himself and that's what matters, after everything he sacrificed he will get what he wanted one way or another...

Now i think the season ends with some loose threads in relation to Armand, which feels rushed and unsatisfactory especially with Daniel transformation, but we have to remember that it's still Louis' season, so we have to wait what tv Devil's minion has to offers us. There is still a lot to be explored about all these dynamics.

[cuntylouis]

I've probably said this before but when considering the unreliable narration in iwtv i think what we don't see is much more important than what we see. Like i think people have been since the beginning focusing too much on what is a 'fake' memory or narrative or lie. Especially Lestat fans have a tendency to do that when trying to explain away things he does saying that isn't 'real Lestat'. But there is actually very little in these first two seasons that contradicts Lestat's established characterization; what we lack is Lestat's point of view and more information. It's not about the existence of all the negative things and memories, but the absence of positive ones. We know there were good things in Louis and Claudia's relationship with Lestat but we see very little of it. There is nothing in Lestat's abusive and cruel treatment of them that contradicts that he loved them and that good things existed too. Even if he had been a hundred times more abusive it wouldn't have dimmed the reality of his love in the slightest. But that love, especially the love he has for Cladia, isn't necessarily clear for viewers or characters other than Lestat in the show because it's not shown.

When we get Lestat's version of the story in s3 it's going to be different than Louis' or Claudia's or Armand's version - but i think probably less so than most people assume. In 2.07 we already see that Lestat's version of the revisited scenes is more like an extended version and doesn't really even contradict Louis' and Claudia's story. In Lestat's version of Claudia's night of turning Louis begged him more desperately and he warned Louis more strongly, but it's actually very similar - we just didn't see everything they said. In ep5 flashback he's vague and doesn't tell everything he did (if we only got Lestat's version you'd have an impression that the assault was less violent than it was) but doesn't deny anything either and openly admits that he 'broke' Louis to hurt him. The additional scene is just what Claudia didn't see because she wasn't in the same room and it doesn't change anything, it just tells us more about what Lestat was feeling. In the same way i think Lestat's narration later is going to give his perspective and clarify his motivations and emotions, but it's not going to erase anything we've seen before. You can already guess that Lestat felt extremely lonely and abandoned and paranoid, and that he was worried and protective of Louis and Claudia and tried to control his fears and insecurities by controlling his fledglings. We'll see much more of him being vulnerable and loving and learn a lot about his past and trauma. But none of that means that everything we've seen didn't happen, and likely Lestat isn't going to claim it didn't happen either. And it most certainly doesn't excuse anything.

For example in 1.06 when Lestat forced Claudia to return, in addition to dragging her home so that Louis would stay with him i think he was also genuinely trying to protect her because he knew that other vampires in Europe would likely kill her quickly if and when she found them. But that doesn't make the way he treated her in that scene any less horrendous and abusive. The depiction of Lestat and Claudia's relationship in the show has actually been in line with their book relationship, where in Interview Lestat is often cruel to her, threatens to kill her, and indicates that he only made her to keep Louis with him. We only learn later from Lestat's own narration that he actually always loved her. The scene at the end of Interview where he's crying while clutching Claudia's dress after her death is arguably the first time we see proof of him loving her. I think it's pretty likely they're going to include that in the show, with Claudia wearing a similar yellow dress and Santiago pointedly snatching it from her ashes, and that is going to be a reveal to viewers that Lestat's feelings for Claudia were much more complex than shown so far.

I think Lestat's love for Claudia, which i'd argue is a core part of his character in the same way his love for Louis is, is the most significant part of the story that has been erased, and that erasure makes sense since Armand's narrative relies on the presumption that Lestat hated Claudia and wanted to kill her. But it's Lestat's own doing that narrative is so believable that even Louis believes his husband wanted their daughter dead. This is a tragedy that Lestat created himself. The greatest horror of the story is the continuous coexistence of deepest love and deepest cruelty. The most upsetting thing isn't that Lestat was a victim of some false narrative and didn't actually do the things he was shown to do, or that he didn't really love Louis and Claudia, but that he loved them, both of them, and still did those things

[lovebitesandcrosses]

I have got to talk a little bit about S2 E8 and the insane end of season that was.

Spoiler warning obviously so scroll now if you don’t want that //

First of all the parallels between the beginning and end of episode, right? Start of episode, Louis considers himself as good as dead. Claudia is gone, he’s resigned to his fate. The rocks being still embedded in his feet is kind of an obvious metaphor to me and the way Armand dismisses it as a dramatic gesture and nothing more because he could remove them any time. End of episode Louis, circling his feet in his stone garden, almost like they’re still ‘circling round the insulating rocks of my death bed’, didn’t he say??? And are we forgetting that they slap you in the face with the fact that he considers this apartment basically a coffin? When he’s doing the end monologue I wonder how much of himself he feels died with Claudia, maybe he doesn’t care what any of them could do to him, maybe it all circles back to him still being mentally trapped in that coffin. But I think it goes deeper than that. We have hints of Akasha now and Lestat directly references having her blood, not being capable of dying if he doesn’t will it. It’s technically possible he was fully just fucking with Louis, it’s also possible the blood Louis got was a lot more diluted so it didn’t pass to him, but what I wonder is whether, during whatever reunion Louis and Lestat had that we didn’t get to see, Lestat gave Louis the information he’d been hiding from him. Some of it, anyway. Whether Louis also has this power, and that’s why Louis is completely fearless. He knows they couldn’t do shit to him. I imagine none of my theorising is super unique on this.

What I really want to point out from the beginning though, is what Daniel says in response to Armand’s comment to Louis. ‘And he’s been lying to you all these years for effect’. Daniel knows, and he knows what he’s doing. We know he had the script at this point, we know he’s put the pieces together that Louis didn’t and is waiting to drop the bomb. Just like Armand calls out after it happens. (And the acting is fucking incredible because the look Armand gives Daniel??? So many layers to this. How does he say so much.) This is the exact weird game playing chess move only makes sense hundreds of years later with hindsight shit that all the vampires in this god damn show seem to get off on more than actual sex. Moreover, Armand gets off on it and I think especially when he sees it in Daniel. Daniel has been doing the vampire shit before he ever fucking turned, he knows the game. He delights in getting to play it. I think this is a lot more of the reasoning behind Armand’s decision to turn Daniel than keeping his word to Louis but I want to talk more about all that in its own right at some point.

The cinematography/direction as the whole thing is unraveled at the reveal is absolutely brilliant to me. It kind of flawlessly captures the absolutely horrifying and creeping feeling of finally putting something together, watching it sneak up on you until it clicks and everything shatters. Seeing Daniel in dead silence staring at the ‘GET OUT. GET OUT NOW.’ message as Louis and Armand leave the room, realising he dropped this bomb on himself. When we look to the beginning of the episode right before this, Daniel is telling the agent he wants to survive this. The agent tells him he should be fearing Louis, not ‘the other one’. Ironically Louis clearly wants Daniel protected and would not harm him now, maybe purely out of desire to get that damn book out though, knowing Armand would hate it, I don’t know. Still, he turns Daniel anyway. I cannot wait to see more vampire Daniel btw, I always wonder how much more chill vampires would be when they turned after living out a more natural length of human lifespan first. In vampire media we don’t get to see a lot of older looking vampires that are just regular people who got turned after aging, we just see completely smooth looking young adults or completely shrivelled and withered up unwell old world monster vampires. We see some of how this has given Daniel more confidence possibly, he’s being completely himself he’s just going for it a bit harder I guess. It’s gonna be really interesting to get a more in depth look at his experience though, because wouldn’t it be the best possible time to turn in some ways? The power dynamic between him and the vampires is super weird because you can tell he knows he’s in over his head but is refusing to show it and he’s able to play their games on their level, until they get into the powers and shit and he’s forced to remember he cannot be in control here. But now he’s a vampire??? Shit is gonna get interesting.

Man I didn’t even get onto discussing the Louis/Lestat reunion we got and the insane amount of shit to read into there. This is already crazy long and it’s from my thoughts on literally just a few minutes, I have like 20 more paragraphs on this episode alone in me easily, so I’m probably going to tag these under ‘vamp analysis’ so people can filter them out or go find them easier.

[murfpersonalblog]

FrankFreezy on Victim-Blaming in the IWTV Fandom (IWTV 2x1 - 19:09 - 25:34)

If I see or sense something that is problematic...I'm going to say something, and one of those things that led me to this whole thought process of speaking about victim blaming is because my whole thing with Lestat in Season One is like I have said countless times:

I'm judging and speaking on these characters based on what I am seeing in front of me.

And a lot of people have spoiled; a lot of people have hinted; a lot of people have suggested that: "Don't worry, when you get to Season Two everything will make sense!"

And I'm happy for that! I'm happy to grow and evolve...with the story as I go. I'm a patient man, and I'm a man that likes being told I am wrong, in the sense that I'm open to learn, I'm open to embrace new point of views.

However, I'm also a man who calls sh*t when I see it, or calls some kind of characters and behaviors when I see it.

Now, something I want to talk about victim blaming is: If someone SA'd someone, or abused someone, and your first comment or your initial comment is: "Hey man, we need to look deeper into this abuser's past! We need to check out their trauma and what made them do this!" Then I'm going to say something about that, because those things are valid! Mental health is important, and knowing how a character got from Point A to Point B is very valid.

But the part about victim blaming that comes up for me is: Why is the abuser's past or trauma the thing being centered in this moment??? Doesn't it make more sense that the person that is going through it or the person who is abused--their pain, their current trauma that we're seeing Lestat inflict in front of our eyes--should be centered first?!

When that person is cared for and taken care of and understood, yeah, we can run back then we can run back and check out Lestat's past or why this person got from here to here, you know?

...Because if I just got abused, and in the midst of it the first thing I'm hearing people asking is: "Oh, the person that abused me, they've had a hard past, and was hurt, people hurt people!" And all these conversations that comes around trauma, generational trauma? I would feel so neglected and messed up! Because I just went through some traumatic sh*t, and my abuser is being centered!?

...Everyone has been telling me we're just seeing Louis' point of view. Even in Episode 7, Armand told Molloy that "You only know half the story, you're going to apologize when you hear everything." I'm SO eager to hear Lestat's side and everything.... Let let me see all the nuances. And I'm happy to see how it changes my mind and all this.

But...almost every time I am cautioned or I am nudged gently in the "right direction" to look at Lestat's reasons for what he's doing, often times it never comes side-by-side with also empathizing or centering Louis, or the people who are being abused.

Like, I just posted Episode [Four] on YouTube, the episode where Claudia did her first kill [on Charlie], unfortunately, and how Lestat was after it happened. He wasn't very comforting; he forced her to look at the body, and all these things, and that's a child! Vampire or not!... I had some thoughts towards that, I'm like: "Yo, she just went through something very traumatic, and you do this!?"

And there was a bunch of folks that were on the whole: "He was training her to be what she was supposed to to be!"

...She did some self harm at the ending of that episode, and in a lot of those comments, none of...the trauma she's actively going through was centered. It was just more: "So, this is Lestat's reason for doing this;" and it gave me victim blaming vibes a lot.

...Especially with Louis, like: "Oh yeah, he was a flawed man before Lestat changed him. He agreed to it, he consented into it!"

I'm not seeing them being centered in that case. I am seeing justifications for why Lestat is doing that.

....I'm just seeing some thoughts, patterns, that I feel from my POV are like low key problematic.

-- Already LOVE season 2 🧡| Interview With The Vampire 2x1 | Reaction & Commentary - FrankFreezy (19:09 - 25:34)

[cbrownjc]

I'm curious on why do you think Daniel would hate Armand when he recovers his memory... I thought he would resent him or be ashamed of being in love with the guy who tortured him not too long ago (He could maybe even prescribe himself as having Stockholm Syndrome).

I also can't wait to see all the relationships in Dubai in S3, the angst omg

Hi!

So I don't think Daniel is going to recover all of his memories before the start of Season 3. I think he's just going to remember one more thing by the end of the season via one memory, which will reveal that he and Armand -- at some unknown point -- had sex and said "I love you" to each other.

And that is all Daniel is going to remember of his and Armand's relationship -- that they had sex at some point in time and there was an "I love you" exchange (likely during it) and that's it.

And that little bit Daniel remembers is in no way going to tell the whole story of everything. And that is going to be the key as to how and why he'll react the way I think he will.

Because there is no way, IMO, that Daniel would be happy to learn he and Armand were involved with each other like that with only that little bit of info about it all. Especially not after how Daniel has been reacting to just the whole Rashid deception.

Because after learning that Armand might have very well screwed with his mind not just for days, but for who knows how long? And doing so to hide that something like that happened? I think Daniel is going to view it all as Armand lying to him in a HUGE way. No matter what Armand's excuse for it might be.

And now also given the fact that Daniel knows Armand has messed with Louis' mind in the same way too, I don't think that is going to help Armand in any case he might plead about why he did it in Daniel's eyes either. I really do think Daniel going to see it -- at first -- as nothing but manipulation on Armand's part at first. And, as Eric himself said, Daniel doesn't like being bullied.

Now, I'm not saying that Daniel will only see it that way from here on out. But if Season 2 ends with a reveal that they had sex and said "I love you" to each other in the past at some unknown point (and I still think that reveal will be coming in episode 2x08), the first half of Season 3 is going to have Daniel super angry about that, along with some shame too as well of course, I'm sure. Especially because he's not going to have the full context of it all.

But it'll probably take until the middle of Season 3 before Daniel is even willing to hear Armand fully out about it I bet.

And honestly, I think Armand is going to have to deal with a lot of anger coming at him during the first half of Season 3, and not just from Daniel. I fully expect Lestat to be there and, since we know we're getting Lestat's backstory in Season 3 then, if you know that story from The Vampire Lestat, Armand doesn't exactly cover himself in glory during the events there either. Heck, Louis already alluded to the hands thing with Nicki in this very episode.

So yeah, Daniel won't be the only one angry at Armand for a time at the start of Season 3 IMO, but I do think he will be. And what Daniel will very likely hear wrt Lestat's backstory isn't going to help things in that regard either I bet, coupled with the fact that his memory of their time together as lovers will only be remembering one fleeting moment and that's all.

Daniel won't yet have his full memory of everything regarding him and Armand together going into Season 3; not for a (long) while IMO. And so missing a lot of context is going to inform Daniel's first and immediate reaction to learning it, IMO.

[leslutdepointedulac]

Louis says something like he doesn't like thinking of when Claudia hurt Lestat. But Louis was literally there too??? He was a part of that attack?? Also Louis doesn't even acknowledge Lestat hurt Claudia, which is what lead to the fall out.

Yes, so Louis does say that but when Claudia tells him that she's planning on killing Lestat, he's shocked and horrified and begs her not to go through with it. Even after being told what it is she plans to do, Louis questions whether or not she'll actually succeed, thinking Lestat is too powerful to be killed. He even debates going to Claudia and asking her to forget the whole idea so they can all continue with their lives like before.

Even knowing what he does, he has no knowledge of Claudia's plan outside of her generally wanting to do it. He has no idea how or when it will happen and also questions if she'll even go through with it at all.

When it comes to the actual attack itself, there are two times when Louis does actually go to step in and intervene, only to be stopped by Claudia. I honestly think that Louis just didn't know what to do, he froze up in a panic, horror, fear and the reality of the situation kept him almost paralysed. The two times where he does make a move may have been his brain kicking in, giving him the push needed to rescue Lestat, but Claudia telling him to stop made him freeze up all over again.

Louis most likely felt powerless and helpless against what was happening. Although Claudia is both younger and smaller than he is, she holds far more power over everything in that moment and has complete control. She has Louis wrapped around her finger and she uses that to her advantage, as well as knowing how, as much as Louis doesn't want Lestat dead, he's so easy for her to manipulate and keep under her control, therefore allowing her to do it almost.

I think there are a couple of aspects to why Louis doesn't like to remember how Claudia hurt Lestat. His lover was killed by their daughter and that in itself isn't an easy thing to think back to, especially when he loves them both. But I think the main reason why, is that Louis doesn't want to remember how he stood by and allowed it to happen, despite how much he didn't want it to. He may feel like he failed Lestat in not preventing it from happening, maybe even ashamed of his lack of control over everything at the time. He doesn't want to remember how his family tore themselves apart and he was too helpless to stop it.

As for the lack of acknowledgment towards Lestat hurting Claudia, the only hurt he really causes her is emotional. Partially because of turning her so young and partially because of withholding information from her about their kind.

If we take the example of turning her as such a young age, Louis is in part responsible for that too. He knows it would be unfair and hypocritical of him to place all the blame on Lestat alone, knowing that if it weren't for himself, Lestat wouldn't have had the chance to turn her in the first place.

In regards to withholding information, although Louis definitely would've felt Some Type of Way about it, considering he also knew nothing, in the future he gets his reason as to why Lestat did that. I think he may have still felt upset, maybe even angry about it, but he finds out that Lestat was only trying to do what he thought was best in protecting his family.

[calliettes-posts]

yeah that makes perfect sense!

anyways have some Claudia thoughts:

•lestats treatment of Claudia was unforgivable and the worst part of it is (at least at until she come back to try to take louis to europe) that Lestat was genuinely trying to be a good parent and break the cycle of abuse and he failed so so hard.

•the big fight scene and subsequent drop is triggered by lestat chocking Claudia and after they “kill” lestat that’s what louis does too. both of them value their dead relationship over their living daughter/sister/fledgling (lestat chocked her for trying to take louis away even though they’ve not been together properly and happily in years; louis chocked her for trying to burn lestat even though he had literally just killed him)

•Claudia’s turning isn’t even about her it’s about louis guilt and lestats fear of loneliness

•the baby lou play written to force her to relive every condescending comment is also about louis and how he’s trapped and his fall and his brothers suicide (it’s literally in the name)

•armand kills her because he is obsessed with lestat and she reminds him of his own victimhood (and a bunch of cult brainwashing but we can ignore that for now)

• the tragedy of iwtv is that Claudia will always die and it (loustats relationship, her vampirism, etc) will never be about her.

(anne rice the author of the books wrote iwtv because her own daughter died of leukaemia and louis was her self insert. the rest of the series sort of spiralled out from their but at the centre of it all is a parents grief for their child)

My heart breaks for Claudia, because at the end it's her that loses everything, including her life, like it's so annoying how she's "just" a casualty in what happens in loustats life, i think that was my biggest issue with the ship and especially lestat, because how can you "create" a daughter and then trest her like that?

And Armand, I hope he rots in hell for plotting and executing her murder, I'll make sure of that

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hello nalyra, how are you?

I wanted to ask your opinion on something.

So insofar in iwtv s01 and s02 we have had the portrayal of lestat as the villain let's say that was meant to be shown as incorrect by the episode 8 reveal.

However let's say that the "clues" that we got such as the letter still hold a sinister undertone. Many said that they saw the letter as romantic but it also could sound as a threat. Louis in season 1 ep 6 is seen to be tense verging on scared post drop when lestat yells whereas in ep 2 the jonah incident he yelled back furthering this view.

From the way I think of it, season 3 lestat cannot explain all these events from his pov making himself look misunderstood bc then inadvertently it makes the trial (lynching) version of him and the things he said there be justified and that is too much of an ask from the audience after what ep 7 put louis and claudia through.

On the other hand if he straight up says these things are not true that's not what happened then that would negate most of two seasons and I don't think rolin wants that.

At this point I'm not sure how this would work out without making lestat seem like the repentant abuser and louis the victim of both lestat and armand.

And that sort of sucks cause I'm a huge lestat fan!!

Hey, I'm good, thank you!

Nonny... you have been fed a tale for an effect. An edited (by Armand, who has his own history with Lestat) tale.

Not everything of that tale was false, and Lestat won't go and contradict it, that is not what happens in TVL. Also, the trial was a "show trial", literally. Almost everything they said on that stage there to accuse was BS. When Louis tenses in episode 6 (I assume you mean after the chess game??) it is because he cannot with the aggression, yes, but he also turns the radio louder, because he does not want to hear Lestat's words. Because Lestat knows what they're doing wrong, and Louis does not want to hear it.

Lestat was "presented as a monster" (JACOB's words!!), in order to make the murder of him seem inevitable.

The letter was romantic, Sam has said in an interview that Lestat wrote it as a bit of a contingency plan.

Season 3 will provide context. And Louis will understand after.

That won't resolve everything. But It will clear things up.

Nonny, I know the season 2 reveal was a bit... let's say rushed. It flew over a lot of people's heads, unfortunately.

But the latter half of the season, and especially 2x08 was supposed to make it clear, that

The tale has been edited with - by Armand

Not all of what Louis remembers can be the truth because of it

Louis misremembers, for example Claudia not dreaming, which was 2x01

Louis feels guilty, and his own inner thoughts make it clear he finds Lestat needing to be killed "debatable" by now, wants Lestat back, hallucinates him regularly, and Lestat is still the only on he trusts(!)

Louis wants to go home (to Lestat) in 2x01

Louis has been kept like a proverbial Stepford Wife for decades - by Armand. Mind controlled, mind-edited, words and phrases put into his head, for decades. Because Armand only sees Louis as something that can be used, a vessel.

Unfortunately the long hiatus, certain statements by podcast guests, and the show using DV to add more gravitas led to a certain unwillingness by the (show only) fandom to follow that reveal (is my impression at least). Or at least some are unwilling to follow the narrative.

This is no accusation. The show is very high level and a lot may fly over people's head.

The "audience" will (have to) follow the narrative with what season 3 will show, as the official release statement said, here by The Wrap:

The renewal announcement promised a “sexy pilgrimage across space, time and trauma,” now told from Lestat’s perspective. “In season three,” the synopsis reads, “resentful of the perfunctory portrayal in the trashy bestseller ‘Interview With The Vampire,’ the Vampire Lestat sets his story straight in a way only the Vampire Lestat can—by starting a band and going on tour.”

And that will be what happens.

Some will not like that, since they like to see Lestat as the uber villain. It's easy and practiced by now, I guess. And going to get very stale, very soon.

Because we have not seen Lestat yet, that has been also said again and again.

We have seen an edited tale, a tale edited on purpose.

I can only recommend to keep that in mind.

[ca-suffit]

“loumand were happy together most of the time” is kind of an insane take bc louis spent eps 1-4 haunted by lestat and distracted by a hallucination of him, fought badly with armand and called him a boring beige pillow in ep 5, the closest they probably came to being genuinely happy was in 6, the ep which had louis acting really off (i think jacob himself said he’d regressed to a lot of his past personality). eps 7, 8 and dubai speak for themselves lol. whereas loustat *were* happy, especially when they were raising claudia (“we were a happy trio”), and it’s clear that louis downplayed a lot of that happiness (see all of jacob and sam’s comments about dreamstat reflecting the softer and happier parts of loustat that louis wants to forget). but people also ship them because a) their intense chemistry and b) the whole show revolves around their romance, which is tragic and destructive because they love each other *so much*. it’s fucked up but also so compelling and epic and romantic because they will literally love each other forever and nothing can stop it no matter the cost. that doesn’t mean you have to ship it, but it actually surprises me that someone could even enjoy the show if they don’t even “get” loustat at all

tbh I think an argument could be made for both relationships either way. I don't think any of it has to be a contest of any kind. ppl come into the show from all different backgrounds and awareness of the books / characters or not. I think it's fine to let ppl come into the story however they want.

loustat allowed louis to feel seen for the first time in his life but also unseen in other ways. we do see them have happy moments but the more time goes on, the worse they get and the less "alive" he seems. then there's the explosive endings of the fight and mardi gras. although the show has told us there's layers to this and a general back and forth of whether things were better or worse all over their timeline.

loumand and being in paris gives louis more freedom in ways than he's ever known. he explores hobbies, he feels less judged as a black man in public spaces, he feels like he's allowed to have boundaries and voice desires. armand pretends to relinquish control at times when he knows it's what louis requires to feel good. that's something that lestat wasn't doing. for a lot of S2, in dubai, there is an unease felt and a forced manner of discussing all of these "happy" memories they have together, but a lot of it still feels real. like an authentic couple that's been married a long, long time and settled into each other. 2x5 shows us a layer peeled back and starts to break the illusion, but just like with louis' happy moments with lestat, it doesn't change that those moments still exist.

the show itself is always telling us that everything we see of any of this are parts of a whole. just like real life, all events have different perspectives. if louis' memory hadn't been erased after 2x5 then who knows what would have happened. but louis also wouldn't have left lestat on his own without claudia too, so maybe nothing?

the core of all of these relationships is what they reveal about the characters. while loustat has been said to be the main focus throughout, it doesn't lessen any of the others. all of these characters are around each other for eternity and have to endure each other somehow, whatever their current status with each other. I don't think anyone has to have any relationship preference to watch the show tbh, bcuz they're all related in the end anyway.