#elmike season 4

[gayofthefae]

Yes! Season 4 is full of using ily to contrast Mike and I've been saying this. Even if improv, they kept it (only the Eddie one was).

Jason tells Chrissy.

Nancy and Jonathan say it about each other.

PAPA FUCKING SAYS IT ABOUT EL AND HENRY. PAPA. they are establishing so strongly that you can say it without meaning it or believe it without it being true RIGHT before Mike says it.

And then there are TWO OTHERS IN 4X09 *THE SAME EPISODE*, originally intended one but now two

Right after Mike's, Eddie tells Dustin and Dustin says it back.

And BIGGEST TO ME OF ALL, they SCRIPTED to one-up Mike and Eleven in the last scene before El's fighting started/jumpstarting the impending ily speech:

Jonathan says it to Will.

Everybody cared more about that and they knew it.

Know what else? You probably didn't know any of that. And as I've said before, I wouldn't doubt that Mike loved El if he'd never said it. Until 3x06 I assumed that he had. Even after he did, it was only when everyone reacted with alarm that I discovered he hadn't. It was obvious to me. But now I don't believe him anymore.

They had the most people ever say "I love you" in season 4. Every scripted case being first. By the time Mike says it, we have seen it done better, and we have established that it can be unreliable. And only THEN do they let him.

I remember thinking they would use a song to wake Nancy then realizing they wouldn't because for marketing they would want Running Up That Hill to be the "season 4 song". They reserved a song for the whole season. They damn well could have reserved an "I love you". By the time it was Mike's turn, we had heard it at least FIVE TIMES ALREADY - "at least" because I wouldn't be surprised if I'm forgetting a Hop about El or Victor about his family or something.

Mike was SIXTH. And by keeping the cut of Eddie they didn't even make him the closer! He was SIXTH of SEVEN! And the one that was a LIE DIRECTLY REFERENCED MIKE'S PREVIOUS ATTEMPT

Never over how much more Jonathan saying it to Will matters to literally everyone than romance - queer acceptance is more important than even the sweetest love story and people empathize with that - and they put it JUST A FEW SCENES *BEFORE* MIKE'S to keep in your mind fresh what it's SUPPOSED to look and feel like.

Saw someone on Reddit point out that it took Mike an entire season to say I love you to El while Jason was able to say it to Chrissy in ep one and. Yeah. Kinda interesting how Mike is set up from the very beginning of the season to be the opposite of the macho hometown hero like that.

Not that the writers could possibly be trying to tell us anything though

[phoebebuggers]

what if i said i laughed out loud

[gayofthefae]

"I should have explained myself because maybe then Eleven would have taken me with her, but - I don't know. I didn't know what to say."

That isn't what he said the first time.

"I should have said something. And maybe if I had said that thing, Eleven would want me there with her."

The sentiment of him being with her and knowing/ensuring she's safe is consistent. But he isn't actually repeating himself. There's no need for him to as a person and as a screenwriter, repetition should DEFINITELY be cut.

He's changing. He's brainstorming. He's starting to consider other angles of the "could have"s. The "what if"s.

He starts with "what if I'd just forced an 'I love you'". But I think he likely settles on what we can logically deduce for ourselves in that situation - "I made the right choice prioritizing with what I knew of the consequences at the time".So he changes. He changes.

He changes to "I should have explained myself".

"Explained myself" is NOT the same as "said that thing" and that is VITAL.

I should have just sucked it up and told her I loved her if it meant keeping her safe.

No, I did the best I could with the information I had

I should have told her the truth. Maybe she would have taken it better if I had just told her that I don't love her but it's my fault, not hers. Now she thinks it's hers and that I'm hiding it.

And, perfect timing, Will comes in with (in Mike's pov) "It makes sense why you didn't, though, don't beat yourself up. She was gonna get hurt either way and everything would have been a risk as to how much."

And Mike nods. And the next time we see him, he's saying

"Will she still even want me in her life if I can't give her the love she wants? All I can do now is to make sure she knows it isn't her fault, that's the selfless act I can do for her, but if I confess I don't love her, what other use am I to her? Will doing what's best for her by telling her it's not her fault, it's mine, instead of continuing to lie make me lose her?"

He says "explain". He starts with "maybe I should have changed the 'what'". Then he shifts to "maybe I should changed what she thought of the 'why'". Ironically, his question in the van once he's come to that conclusion is "how?".

The first pitch he makes is "maybe I should have told her I loved her" and Will says "don't worry, you'll have another chance", and he turns away and introspectively reacts with

aversion.

But then he says "maybe I should have just explained the real reason behind my actions instead of denying them all together" and Will says "that's a scary thing to do. It's a hard decision. You're doing your best", and he turns away and introspectively reacts with

understanding.

Honestly, being understood. And sometimes that's what you need to find understanding. He's been confused this whole time, that's been his whole thing, but he looks like he's starting to piece something together now - finally. Will put his own feelings into words for him to hear out loud so could finally get them and get them in a validated way.

Instinctively, he knew the first one was easier but wrong. He didn't want to lie to her. Both times Will said "if that's what you want to do, I believe in you", but only once did he agree. He knew it felt like the wrong choice the first time and you can see it. The second time was a new choice he was considering.

And you know what? While we're here. Telling her he loves her: aversion. Telling her the truth: understanding and drive. What happens next?

He expresses "what if when I tell her the truth, as I've decided is the right choice, she appreciates it but doesn't need me for anything else beyond that?" And Will says "she'll stay. You got this.", and he reacts with

Comfort.

He didn't know what to do. Then he did, but he was scared to do it. Then he wasn't so scared anymore.

He's thrilled to see her and forgets for a second but - much like El with Will on roller rink day - is reminded by seeing Will that now that she's actually here, it's real. He's committed to his actions and they're impending.

But he's not so scared anymore. Bravery, though, doesn't mean no nerves. He's hesitant and not happy looking when he talks to her about it first. He tries to lighten the mood - "the whole world went to shit and everything" - and he's watching her reactions like a hawk. It feels like less of a risk now enough that he can do it, but not so little that he isn't scared. Either way though, it's worth the risk for her to know the problem isn't her.

He didn't know what to do. Now he does. He was scared, but he's not as much anymore. Not too much to do it. They're interrupted. Okay, oh well, he'll find another time.

And now to break your heart:

Mike had an idea, Will said it was good, but Mike met that with aversion.

Mike had an idea, Will said it was good, Mike met that with understanding and agreement.

Mike was scared, Will said he had no reason to be, Mike met that with comfort.

(I'm sorry) Mike was scared for El - unrelated - and looked to Will for comfort - as he had every other time - when he tapped him on the shoulder, Will said he should tell her he loves her, and he reacts with

anguish.

This was not Mike's plan.

This was not their plan, so he thought.

Mike's reaction tells us everything about what he knew and what he meant for what's to come. This was not what he meant. That was not what he was going to say. This was not his plan.

And there's that part of you too that always wishes to go back to semi-ignorant bliss. Even if just panicked confusion. Because wasn't it nice: when telling her you loved her evoked this

And not this

Wasn't it nice when you knew...just a little less?

Wasn't it nice, in a way, when you couldn't see the happy ending so clearly?

Don't you sort of miss - when you couldn't taste it?

also fuck it for just for that list bit and the bridge of this song here's my illicit affairs edit linked because "you showed me colors you know I can't see with anyone else"

[spookystarfishzombie]

[considermeadream12]

You all moved on but I'm still thinking about the woman in the Lenora police department who believes that El has three brothers...

[groovinrightalong]

I don’t know if it’s been done already but?? This song with Mike and El???

Like. Especially from Mike’s point of view, it’s perfect?? I could see him moping in his basement season 3 era blasting this in his headphones or something. Please there could be like the coolest animatic to this, or an edit, anything. Do yall see the vision?

[dapunzel]

I do not know what it is like to lose. And as a mileven I never will. Here is the link for the script.

[urlocalbylershipper]

I didn't feel like retyping it so here

[pinksmonkey]

Lol

[justcameheretobyler]

I’ve been reflecting on Eleven and Mike’s fight in Season 4, and I feel like Mike doesn’t get the justice he deserves in that scene. Most people focus on his defensive side, which is fair, but it misses the complexity of his character.

First, let’s talk about Eleven.

El and Mike’s bond is incredibly special. He was the first person to offer her a warm place to stay and give her comfortable clothes—clothes he wore in the first scene of the show btw. Mike became a pillar in El’s life. Does she need him to survive? No. But she loves him deeply, just like she loves Hopper. Both gave her a home when they didn’t have to.

When Mike found Eleven, he had no idea she had powers. He stood up to Dustin and Lucas to keep her safe, showing how much he cared about her as a person. Even the lines people criticize him for—like calling her a "weapon"—weren’t meant to dehumanize her. Mike was just trying to convince Lucas to let her stay with the party. He’s always been tender with El, promising her they’d meet again when she rang the doorbell.

But let’s focus on the fight scene.

El had just lost her powers—the one thing that made her feel safe and in control. Mike had warned her this might happen, but the loss left her vulnerable. Without her powers, she reverted to the little girl who was bullied in the lab. This explains why she let Angela bully her, even though El is normally confrontational. She was scared of being different and wanted desperately to fit in. She also let Mike lie to her because she didn’t want to lose more than she already had. Deep down, she suspected Mike didn’t love her the way she wanted him to, but she couldn’t face it.

So, El lied to Mike, just as Mike was lying to her. They both clung to a "safe path," pretending everything was okay when it wasn’t. When El told Mike he was scared of her, she was really projecting her own fear—her fear of herself. She didn’t want to confront the possibility that she was the monster in her broken memories. Blaming Mike was easier. That fight became a turning point for her, forcing her to confront the “I love you” issue and begin facing her own fears.

Now, let’s talk about Mike.

Mike was unhappy and anxious, but he didn’t fully understand why. He had mixed feelings about himself—and about Will—but he likely suppressed them because they didn’t feel "right" or "normal." He clung to the idea of being the boyfriend of his “superhero girlfriend” because it seemed like the path he should take. Plus, Mike has always felt responsible for El’s happiness. From the moment he took her in, he probably felt like he had to protect her, and since he knew El loved him, he assumed it was natural to love her back.

He should love her.

But he doesn’t

And he can’t say it.

That’s what makes their fight so uncomfortable and lacking intimacy. Something is broken—not just between them, but within each of them. They were both pretending to belong to something normal, and it didn’t work. They couldn’t face their truths, so they stayed stuck.

By the end of Season 4, though, things seem to shift. El realizes she’s not a monster, and Mike starts to accept his own feelings—at least a little. It’s hard to say what will happen in Season 5, but I think it would be strange if they stayed together. A breakup and an honest conversation would be so much better for both of them.

Even before I started shipping Byler, I didn’t think ElMike was my cup of tea couple. It’s just not my relationship goal. Byler, on the other hand, works because of how they accept their mistakes and apologize to each other almost immediately (in their own way).

So, I hope these three people can have their own happy ending.

I'll keep our tags cuz I like this side of tumblr.

[carmenilla]

incoming anti-milkvan rant but pro-elmike rant (and some byler mixed in there because you know me)

my rants aren’t very organized so i apologize :,)

mike and el haven’t been together since like the first season, and their relationship has been descending since then.

the most they’ve spent by each other’s side was in season three, and even then they were in a group setting like the whole time and it wasn’t them, together. also we’ve all seen the season three blocking. they are almost never next to each other

with will it’s the opposite. mike and will spent no time together in season 1, but spent 90% of the time together in both season 2 and season 4 (el was barely with mike in either of these seasons) and while season three had them be less of a pair, once again, the season three blocking comes in clutch and makes sure to pair mike with will in every group setting

they even spent the end of season 4 together. even after mike confessed his “love” for el. el and mike aren’t talking, they aren’t with each other, they’re not even paired together in the blocking of the final shot. (we all know who is, though.

when are mike and el ever together since they’ve been dating, excluding scenes that further the deterioration of their relationship? they’re barely together at all.

el continuously has a plot/subplot of coming into her own. being independent. not being defined by papa, or her dad, or mike (as max says in season three). obviously she wants to have a family and loved ones. she deserves to have that. she does have that - but that’s not going to be taken away or lessened by her standing on her own two legs without anyone else telling her how they want her to do so

all of this has been leading to a milkvan breakup. it’s been built up for multiple seasons now. they’ve laid the ground work. mike and el were best together and understood each other the most when they were friends.

notice how i didn’t say “just friends” - romantic relationships are not actually any stronger than friendship. just different. in fact, friendship is stronger, and while romance can heighten that (like with other pairings in the show) sometimes it just doesn’t (like with mike and el).

mike and el haven’t been friends for a while. like how people say “just friends”, they’re just dating. they’ve been doing this since they were so young and they’re still so young and they don’t understand the importance of the friendship aspect of romantic relationships. they only understand what girlfriend and boyfriend are supposed to do, and they can’t even try to do that without it all falling apart.

they need to be friends again. their relationship would be so much stronger. i miss their friendship. they were so sweet and so understanding and so good together when they were actually friends. a lot of couples are both friends and dating, especially in stranger things - look at lumax, my favorite example of this and why i love them so much. but mike and el aren’t. and they should be. they were best when they were

i fucking love elmike and there’s no chance of me getting them back if they keep trying to date each other “correctly” instead of, i don’t know, trying to be friends again. making genuine connections with each other. being true to the nature of their relationship. they are such friends, and maybe if they were friends and dating it would work out, but they’re not and it’s clear they’re not going to be. so if it’s one or the other, they should pick friends. they are amazing together as friends. they were always best as friends.

and then when we flip over to the byler side of things. mike and will have had a long time being friends. they’ve been friends, best friends, since kindergarten. in season 5, they’ll be in junior year, and they will have been best friends for ten years. they’ve had time to have their relationship develop, unlike mike and eleven. they are so clearly very good to each other and with each other as friends - but there is something grating on their relationship and friendship recently. something bubbling beneath the surface, making smooth sailing not so smooth.

yes, this is a metaphor for homosexuality. homosexuality is banging on their door. these bitches GAY. and it’s straining their friendship. they’re still friends, obviously, and they still want to be, but by ignoring this whole other piece of their relationship, they start fighting and misunderstanding each other for the first time in the history of their friendship. something clearly needs to change here.

when byler does become canon, there is zero doubt in my mind that they will still also be friends. that is the backbone and most important part of their relationship, and that is why their relationship will work. and that’s also 80% of the reason why i ship them, especially over milkvan, who just aren’t friends anymore like they were in s1.

something needs to change here in both mike and el’s relationship and mike and will’s. something that will benefit all these characters individually and their relationships. something that the creators have been laying the groundwork for for multiple seasons now. and i cannot wait to watch it happen. i love all three of these characters so much and i need them to get their happy ending

[gayofthefae]

"Mike can't tell El he loves her because he's scared she'll leave him and it's an anxiety based in his parents' relationship. People don't get that, that's the only reason they want him with somebody else" So close! That is actually Nancy Wheeler's season 4 storyline beat for beat.

In season 1, Nancy mentioned anxiety of becoming her parents' and their loveless marriage. In season 2, it was established that when she feelings anxious about a relationship she "retreats" to her comfort zone romantically which is, in this case, Steve. In season 3, she and Jonathan have issues that bring up their parents and are treated seriously by the show. This all sets her up for season 4: When, prompted by Jonathan's avoidant behavior in their most recent calls, she fears he's going to break up with her, so when Steve comes back into her life and shows romantic interest in her, she allows him to.

On the other hand,

Mike has never once in the show made any acknowledgement of his parents' relationship in any capacity and has never expressed resentment for it. In season 3, his behavior is not consistent with avoiding admitting he loves El to himself, in fact, he smiles when he attempts to tell her. In season 4, he exhibits odd behavior around both his past flame and current partner surrounding the same topics, prioritizes his past flame in a moment of simultaneous conflicts, then, after being unable to explain or resolve his relationship issues, seeks out his past flame himself to spend the rest of the season with.

Nice try, though.

It is an easy misconception, but because there is no such thing as objective storytelling, it is actually not factual that all Wheelers dread becoming their parents. Only Nancy. We have no reason to believe Mike holds any resentment towards their lifestyle. In fact, his behavior would indicate the opposite in many instances (and costuming choices). There is a difference between a parallel and a retelling. People noticed a consistent behavior between siblings and assumed the consistency was correlated between the behavior and their siblinghood rather than the behavior and their also paralleling situations.

But in season 3, Mike completely lacked any demonstration of fear to "admit to himself" that he loved her. And in all seasons, he has never once noted or displayed any effects on his romance from his parents.

Once again, they did do the plotline you think they did. But they did it already - with someone else. And they did it better.

If that been true about Mike, they would have set it up in previous seasons - as they clearly know how to do with this exact plotline, like they did with Nancy.

The real question is: why would they tell the same story twice?

(spoiler: they didn't)

[spookystarfishzombie]

[miamc]

recently i’ve come to the conclusion that the only reason a lot of people hate s4 v2 is because they genuinely think will lying about the painting actually put elmike in a better place when it clearly didn’t. i also know a lot of people view s4 mike as the duffer’s mishandling his character but i also don’t agree with that either but in the case of mike it’s kinda hard for me to explain 😭😭

it also gets the label of using will’s feelings to benefit a hetero ship but i honestly can’t come to a conclusion on that part until the last season is actually out tbh but where it stands now, sure it encouraged mike to ‘confess’ to el but she actively distance herself from him because of it.

s4 mike would only be a mishandling of his character if everything he said in the monologue was true, he has no inner struggles and was behaving strangely for no reason, and the painting lie strengthens his relationship with el.

now, we already know that he was lying in the monologue (you fell in love with her the moment you saw her? really mike?) and we know that the painting will be brought up again in season 5. we already saw that the monologue (which only happened because of will and is based on a lie) didn’t really fix anything since el is now ignoring mike. i don’t believe that the duffers would end their show after suddenly transforming what is arguably the main character from a thoughtful caring kid into a jerk without an explanation why. they know that the audience (and the actors and even the characters) has grown tired of mikes behaviour.

so yeah basically as of now, season 4 was not a mishandling of mikes character. in fact, for someone who is struggling with internalized homophobia, it makes perfect sense. of course we can’t be 100% certain until season 5 comes out but… yeah. it all seems to make sense right now.

[groovinrightalong]

Okay but “I only exist within the warmth of your gaze” is something so Mike Wheeler coded and I think we should talk about it

[noihavenosanitythanksforasking]

broski, you keep saying mike is unable to say i love you to his gf, but at the end he finally said it (9 times) so whats your point literally?

you are holding onto old crap, and beating a dead horse. He said he loves her multiple times, boys are generally hesitant in expressing their emotions (patriarchy asks them to be tough ,not open up and everything), but he overcame that by the end of the season

do you think mileven is gonna break up after how explicitly he told el he loves her???? el also loves mike very much, its just a fight she's upset about, but people can FORGIVE and move on from past misunderstandings you know? el is veryymuch in love with mike since season 1, she can forgive mike for his one mistake (he basically rectified it too at the end of the day)

y'all keep saying mike gets upset when will doesn't talk to him but at the end of season 4 mike is upset that el is not talking to him much because she's grieving

ahhhh this is so exciting!!! i feel like ive made it or smth!

sorry for my late response i was in my physics class 😔

now, we dont KNOW for SURE what mike truly feels. you dont know. i dont know. no one will ever know until s5 comes out. however i have my speculations and so do you. and thats okay!! we dont have to agree :3 your allowed to believe whatever you want in regards to mike and els relationship. it doesnt affect me at all.

however, sense you app care about what i have to say so much i will yapp somemore about what i think. you dont have to agree with me. in fact ik you wont. and thats okay, clearly you are insecure enough about your own opinion that you feel the need to go to the other side and argue with someone in their anons. bc if your opinions were solid and unshakable youd have your url showing. but i get it i really do :)

anywayssss. charecters can lie.

just like people can lie.

i was in a romantic relationship with someone for about a year. and throughout that time, i told them i loved them multiple times. did i? no. did i want to? yes. i wanted to be in love with them. they were very very important to me and when they asked me out, i thought to myself 'well i do really like this person. why not?'

i was not in love with this person. i did not have romantic feelings for them. but i convinced myself i did. in the end, one day we were sitting next to each other and it just hit me. i didnt want to be here anymore. i had met someone else and was developing a crush on them at the time. so i broke up with them.

all this to say, mike can lie. hes not a high fantasy elf. something i feel is a big disconnect between bylers and milevens is that milevens tend to read most things at face value. just bc you say you love someone doesnt mean you do.

as for the patriarchy comment, mikes story line has never had to do with being tough, or not being man enough. he repeatedly says that he doesnt want to be popular, he doesnt care about fitting in. ofc this can still be a factor but i doubt its a huge point of his character arc. if it was they would have made a point of adressing him struggling with it before this.

on your point about moving on from fights, your so right about that. i dont in the slightest think that elmike are going to be on BAD terms in endgame but i dont think they'll be on romantic terms. even if byler isnt canon, and mike is straight. i still believe that.

as for his mistake being rectified. girl what u yappin ab. no it wasnt. if it was why was el not talking to mike in the van on the way back to hawkins

mike says in the last episode that they werent really talking. a little bit but not much. you could say that el was greiving max. but el DIDNT KNOW max was in a coma. when they get back to hawkins, dustin has a line where he explicitly says

"oh you guys dont know" in refrence to max.

is el traumatized? definitely!!! but she doesnt know max is in a coma. and even if she did, why wouldnt el seek comfort in her bf if they had fixed everything???

as for your last point, yeah mike is upset about el not talking to him. duh. however lets compare.

when mike is mad at will for not paying attention to him at rink o mania he actively brings it up. he actively pursues will and expresses his frustration over will being dismissive. he is visably upset. on the other hand, in the last ep of s4, mike doesnt even bring up el until will does. he seems mildly annoyed and confused about the situation and makes no moves to pursue her or seek out resolution. he makes no moves to comfort her about max ever. he doesnt walk with her, he doesnt hug her. nothing. the only affection between then is when EL puts her head on mikes sholder. mike makes no moves to comfort her more but he doesnt push her away. this is also right after mike activly began walking sideways to be able to stand next to will when there was an open space for him to stand right next to el im front of him. odd.

also you do realize that someone can be upset at the prospect of two people that are important to them being upset at them

its not will or el

its never been will or el

this has always been about mike and how he handles conflict and shit.

anywayssss my hands r going to freeze off bc its like 19 F outside and i wrote this walking across campus

hope this helps 💙💛