#durge can confirm

[ashvryn]

Bhaal discarded him as chosen so easily. Maybe he’ll go offer up his sword in service to a new God instead.

[ohpsshaw]

I've been veeerrrry slowly carving my way through BG3. But I think I keep getting captivated by the wrong scenes? Like when you had to dig up a dog's grave for a free steak.

My durge is a civilized nutbar tief-rogue named Typhus (because I forgot that’s just a disease and not something you name an English bulldog), and he’s only holding himself back from slaughtering innocents because of the Dark Urge to resolve friendly NPC storylines. He’s also a desperate slut who wants to get you out of those clothes so he can see your sexy, sexy character development. Whatever you’re into, c’mon. Yes, he’ll even let you put that in there.

[yoakesan]

i beg your FUCKING pardon???????

[bhaalsdeepbat]

i think astarion is going to always have a natural lust for power. like i think his vampiric nature will just forever cause certain desires, but spawn ending kinda reasserts that he has the power to resist AND shows he has people he can rely on to talk him down if he needs it.

[what-is-it-to-be-pk-esque]

You can hear them here on youtube:

BG3 Companions' Reactions Following Scratch's Permadeath

The following lines are triggered when a character throws Scratch's ball after he's been permakilled (AKA, killed at camp rather than just as a summon).

Astarion

Good riddance to the dog. Who'd miss that waggy little tail... (devnote: Pretending not to be sad and failing)

Does it have a sad squeak now? Is that even possible?

I suppose I'll just pick it up myself.

Can't believe the stupid dog isn't here to get the stupid ball. (devnote: Pretending not to be sad and failing)

Gale

You were an excellent friend, Scratch - and that's coming from a cat-lover.

I hope there's balls and bones galore, wherever you are...

Poor Scratch. I'm lucky to have met you.

I hope Scratch doesn't miss his ball, wherever he is...

Karlach

I miss my dog.

Here, pup. (devnote: Sadly. The dog is dead and she knows this.)

Why am I doing this to myself?

Scratch should be here. With his family.

Lae'zel

It's not much fun alone.

I really don't know what I thought would happen.

Solo fetch. A miserable pastime.

Can't believe I'm going to say this, but - I miss Scratch.

Shadowheart

I need to stop doing this to myself...

I didn't do this enough, when I had the chance.

I hope Scratch has a new ball to play with, wherever he is...

It's silly... part of me felt like Scratch might still show up for his ball.

Wyll

Fetch isn't much of a solo game.

Damn. I miss the furry fellow.

For old times' sake.

I miss you, Scratch.

Halsin

I hope you are happy, wherever you are.

I am sorry, Scratch

I torment myself - Scratch is not going to come

Poor Scratch. I hope he is at peace.

Jaheira

Enough. This isn't helping anyone.

You deserved better, boy

Gods, but you'd miss the fuss. The noise. Gods above, even the smell.

Pointless, without a pup to chase it.

Minsc

Scratch, come and... oh. How could I forget he was gone, Boo?

No game of fetch will bring Scratch back from death.

I know he is gone, Boo, but... perhaps this is a way of keeping him alive, no?

I miss him, Boo.

Minthara

Everyone assumes I killed the dog. I liked the dog. (devnote: talking to herself. Comic edge to this.)

Scratch reminded me of my first displacer beast. A noble creature.

Withers! Be a good skeleton and fetch that ball. (devnote: joking—doesn't actually expect Withers to fetch the ball she just threw)

Gah. I miss the damn dog. (devnote: surprised by her own feelings)

[blissfulalchemist]

Finally finished the first bg3 play through on this day of ffxiv having maintenance!

°˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

It was fun I got an ending I liked and that’s what matters when I almost got glitched out of all romances :’) can’t wait to take another 6 months to finish one of the other three I’ve started!

[fabric-shower-curtain]

By complete accident I somehow have the autopsy scar mod on top of the bhaalist tattoo mod, don’t ask me how they’re both on my durge I have no idea how it happened. But it got me thinking how would the origin characters (+halsin) react/barely react to a lover that is heavily scarred and tattooed? (Set in Act 1)

Read more for the full brainrot

Astarion: The first time Astarion saw your body for himself was when he walked past your tent late at night, through the flaps in the entrance he saw all those scars, he couldn’t tell what had you awake this late in the night, especially mostly naked with your back turned. The vampire simply continued on his way to hunt for the night. He dropped it there, until that is, the second night in the clearing you two spent together. He was lying down leaning his head against his arms as his red eyes stared at your naked body. His eyes flowed down every scar that littered your body, he barely seemed to look at the tattoos but that’s what he asked about first “So, can you translate that one?” - he points to the tattoo across your left arm, lifting up the limb you pull your skin to take a proper look at it. It’s been a while since you properly saw it, because just out of sight enough to make it annoying to stare at. When you tell him Astarion seems content with the information. His fingers drift across the tattoo. It’s a tender moment until the elf’s hand floats toward your neck. His ice cold fingers dancing across the lingering puncture wounds on your neck - “But these are by far my favorite mark on you,” You lean into Astarion’s touch releasing a chuckling sigh before calling him the weirdest flirt you have ever seen.

Gale: He really didn’t mean to go to the river at the same time he truly meant to go two hours early when he said he would, but that tome was particularly interesting - the effects of adrenaline on libido, certainly important for a man so restricted by his netherese orb. But now it was two hours past and he definitely had a musk going on. Taking an extra robe and rag Gale went to the nearby river, only you were there too. Illuminated in moonlight you were bare in front of him. Gale cleared his throat loudly, trying to let you know he was there. What he did not expect was for you to whip around and get out of the water to say hello. He tried his best to only look at your face, he did not succeed. Your skin was glowing with a vei of water cascading down in droplets. Gale’s eyes followed one droplet from your hair, down your neck, across your chest until a certain tattoo caught his eye, infernal script. Trying to keep his focus on the tattoo rather than the flesh its on he asked you if it meant what he thought it did. He was right in fact, and you told him the story behind why you got it, quite the nice tale. The wizard relaxed enough to notice another scar across your soldier “Is that from a magic missile?” He asked without thinking. Nodding in confirmation you turned to show your shoulder blade where the other two missiles struck. As you turned around the coldness of the night hit you like a thunder wave, a massive shiver shook your entire body spraying tiny water droplets around. “Gosh you must be freezing,” - Gale wrapped you in his towel-rag before stressfully ushering you back towards the camp. Once you got back to your tent you realized you left your towel and clothes on a nearby rock, you could return the peeping Tom favor.

Halsin: Halsin adores you long before he ever saw your birthday suit, sure he thought about it, quite a lot, but with his focus deep on the shadow-curse he doesn’t have time to do much other than think about out. But the first time he does see you was far from romantic or sensual. A hook horror had slashed your entire back open when you got to close, and Halsin watched it all happen. Before the beast even hit the ground he was rushing over to you, he didn’t think, he just ripped your armor right off of you to get to the wound. You might have been screaming but his ears were ringing too loud to tell one noise from another. Halsin couldn’t even see where scar ended and fresh cut began, your tattoos were doused in enough blood to make them impossible to see against your skin. The bear of an elf’s hand floated above the wound with the same glowing blue light the hook horror’s body was basking in, thank silvanus he was far enough from the sussur tree for his magic to work. Even with his healing a scar in the same place as the monster's claw marks stayed. Halsin’s druidic skills must be faltering, that’s what he determines at least. Until the next day, you’re healed fully up and about getting ready to leave camp for the day. Halsin calls out your name - “I’m sorry I could not heal you fully, I tried best I could but the scar persists” to his confusion you begin laughing. The scar he’s so upset about has been on you for so long now, and you tell him such. His healing left no scar, in fact he healed you so well an old scar was able to show.

Karlach: The first time she saw you naked you were bathing next to each other after a battle. Even with Dammon’s initial upgrade you can’t touch each other, but you swore to find ways to be intimate without touching, just like this. However you neglected to inform her about what lay under your clothes until now, scars covering you head to toe interlaced with tattoos of varying quality. “Hey Soldier! How come you didn’t tell me before stealing my aesthetic!” You didn’t even register this was the first time exposing yourself in such a way, a brief moment of panic before you burst into a smile. “Come here, let me see them” Karlach makes you twirl around, using the faintest touch of her fingers to pull your arms out and see the tattoos wrapping around them. Her eyes continued to trail down your body, after a gasp she jumped back up to your face - “That burn scar looks like mine!” She said before pulling down her trousers to show you the near identically placed scar on her thigh. But Karlach didn’t ask about the obviously fresher stab scars, she continued to smile at her new discovery but lets the two of you properly bathe for once.

Lae’zel: Even when pinning you against a wall the githyanki warrior wasn’t particularly gentle. It’s not like you didn’t know what you were getting yourself into tonight, she had said pretty explicitly she seemed carnal pleasure. Somehow Lae’zel was even more assertive in such a scenario than during your adventures. You couldn’t even take your own armor off, she practically ripped it off of you. Your body is exposed to her in an instant, she doesn’t react, her hands go immediately to unlace your trousers and undergarments. The night is enjoyable even as exhausting as it was. Only much later does Lae’zel ever comment on them, and its in a conversation praising you two’s battle prowess “Each scar is a battle fought, a battle won.” You try not to tell her you have at least two scars from dropping the knife while cooking with Gale. She’s sweet in her own way.

Shadowheart: Shadowheart first saw you naked while healing a particularly cruel wound, goblin had snuck up on you and slashed your torso deep. You stabilized yourself quick enough with a healing potion but the wound persisted. After the battle you wandered your way over to Shadowhearts tent, asking for help. She laid you down atop her bedroll, sliding your shirt off as you let yourself relax into the makeshift bed. And then you caught it, Shadowheart’s eyes widened, shit. But she didn’t say anything; she pressed her warm hands towards your open wound as they lit alight with magic. Radiating from your gash the warm feeling washed over you, your eyes closed softly breathing out in relief. Shadowheart quelled her magic, looking over you for a fat moment. You can feel her eyes wandering over you, up and down your chest, down your stomach and across both your arms. The relief of healing has left you now but you’re still too scared to open your eyes. And then a soft hand traced along your largest scar, her fingers were so light it tickled. “I like your tattoos.” The half-elf’s voice was soft, her eyes focused back on your large scar, “How’d you get that one.” Whether or not you tell the story she’s content, happy to have this extra piece of you in her memory.

Wyll: Poor Wyll just wanted to ask about the plans for tomorrow, but not only did he smack his horns on the skeleton of your tent while entering but you’re also as naked as the day you were born. The man nearly shrieked like he saw a ghost, his entire chest swelled up with his shoulders shooting up and he looked like he just swallowed a frog. Without a word Wyll turned on his heel and left your tent, only after trying to cool his blushing face off did he even process all your markings. Upon the log he sat on he dragged his hand up and down his face trying to process what the hells just happened. And then you exited your tent, completely decent this time. You greeted Wyll and sat beside him wondering what he had barged in about in the first place. But the poor man can’t even look at you. He as calmly as he could gave you the sincerest apology you’ve ever heard. After your acceptance he finally turns to you “So what does that tattoo across your back mean?” You pause for a moment, then explain as best you can. And that conversation continues just like that, he’d ask how you got a certain scar or tattoo and you’d answer him. In return he showed you one particularly nasty scar on his arm from a monster he fought while traversing the sword coast. What may have started as the most embarrassing moment of your partnership ended with you closer than before.

[alijuan]

Ascended Astarion is true unlike Spawn Astarion who pretends to be good for Tav

If i see that opinion again i will explode���

It's funny because Astarion will only approves if you persuade him not to perform the ritual.

A lot of people don't understand the concept of grey morality and it shows. Many people justify him but this type of AA fan thinks worse of him than he really is. He needs the ritual not because he's a power-hungry villain, but because he needs safety for himself and his lover. Depending on Tav/Durge's actions, he either stays with the feeling of fear (AA is still afraid deep inside, the game files confirm this) or he fights against it and becomes truly free of Cazador and fear (spawn ending). The dialogue with Durge about not being afraid is wonderful and shows difference between SA and AA.

Astarion: This little adventure of ours has taught me that we can't let our lives be ruled by fear. Or else we never really live. Astarion: I'm not afraid. Not of you, not of your darkness, and not of our future.

The point of the spawn ending is that Tav/Durge saw him as more than just an outward image of a power-hungry killer incapable of becoming a better person. But if you can't see beyond that image, he will think that he has no choice but to continue living in the world that Cazador has built for him. If you think that AA is his best ending because he is evil then you have failed to understand his whole personality.

I feel safe with you. Seen.

Despite of his love of killing (he is a vampire after all), he repeatedly showed compassion and guilt for luring people. Before the ritual, he literally convinced himself that he should kill spawn for power. Astarion rationalises this to protect his psyche, because he’s clearly not the type of guy who can sacrifice thousands of people to the devil and not feel anything about it.

Durge/Tav: This isn’t you, Astarion. Not really. Astarion: It should be.

I really like that the player technically makes the insight check and that there’s an advantage when they're romancing Astarion. Tav/Durge could see through the image Astarion was trying to create. They saw an elf whose fear prevented him from seeing all the possibilities.

Astarion: When I look at my future, anything and everything feels possible now.

Just as Astarion saw Durge not just as serial killer, but as someone who could defeat Urge and become a better person.

Durge: I am myself at last. You don't need to fear anything from me ever again. Astarion: I knew you had that sweat heart all along. I was alarmed by you sometimes, scandalised even, but somehow by your side, I still only ever saw you.

AA fans also often ignore the fact that the game has good and bad endings in the companion stories. And it's not about morality. All companion quests are literally about how the desired and obvious path leads to a bad ending. And Astarion is no exception. In a good ending, he gets the chance to heal and finally acceptes himself and his vampire nature, in a bad ending, he gives up and regresses as a person.

Spawn Astarion knows what he wants and says it. SA is ready for a relationship and sex. Ascended Astarion can’t answer the question of what he wants, so he acts as a vampire lord should. AA is literally back to the state of the first act and has started manipulating Tav/Durge through sex again (even repeating the same phrases). This is why he doesn’t really want sex (he approves if you choose the no sex option and he definitely dissociated during the sex scene) unlike Spawn Astarion who initiated it.

Spawn Astarion is the same Astarion who enjoys “murder and terror” and you can see that clearly in his “hero” ending (more like “antihero”). And this is the ending without romance, he chose it himself. And the whole idea of him pretending to be good for Tav is actually meaningless without romance.

Ascended Astarion is the same Astarion, but stuck in a black and white world of fear and domination.

SA scene ends with hope music (instrumental version of I want to live) AA scene ends with chains.

And there’s so much more. Larian specifically showed the difference between good and bad endings in the dialogues, scenes after ritual, recent updates and even the interview so people would definitely understand, but they didn't🙃 Some AA fans (especially on youtube and larian forum) are on a new level of delusion.

[trappedinafantasy37]

So, I'm in the middle of typing up a mini essay about fandom opinion about Minthara and how she is often mischaracterized, especially by those who do not know her. One of the points that I bring up in that essay is that she is the most loyal companion. Then, I really started to question to myself, how exactly is Minthara the most loyal?

Shadowheart will leave your party if you don't take her to confront the Nightsong. Astarion will leave your party if you refuse to help him at all with the ascension ritual. Lae'zel will leave the party if you try to leave the creche without going into the Astral Prism and you fail to convince her to trust you. Wyll and Karlach will leave the party if you raid the grove. I believe Wyll may also leave in regards to a very specific outcome with his dad, but I can't find anything to confirm this. Gale will leave the party if you fail to convince him to stay after the grove raid, or you fail to stabilize his orb by the end of Act 2. Halsin will leave the party if you fail to resolve the Shadow Curse by the end of Act 2. Jaheira will leave the party if Minsc dies, or if Durge accepts Bhaal. Minsc will leave the party if Durge accepts Bhaal.

But there is not a single decision you can make that will make Minthara leave your party. Once she is there, she is there for good. You can make whatever stupid decision you want, good or evil, and she'll still be right there. You can make whatever decision she disagrees with, and she'll still be right there. You can leave her behind in camp when confronting Ketheric or Orin (even after she begs you to take her with you), and she'll still be right there. You can blow up the Netherbrain, and she'll still be right there. You can literally be the nicest do-gooder in the world, and she will still be right fucking there. She might be irritated, but she'll still be right there.

You literally have to purposefully drive her away to get her to leave, and that can only be done by getting her affinity deep into the negatives. And even the most morally good of players won't be able to naturally do that on their own. You have to go out of your way and purposefully choose every option that will piss her off. So, as long as you're not an asshole to her, she will stay by your side no matter what.

That's what I love about BG3 and the subversion of tropes. The one companion who will stick with you through thick and thin, is the "evil" one. The one companion who will never betray you in any way, is the "evil" one (which is ironic as she comes from a culture that is all about betraying the ones closest to you). You can recruit all 10 companions and have all of them leave your party at some point, and the only one who won't, is the "evil" one.

This is no longer just an opinion of mine. It is a fact, Minthara is canonically the most loyal companion. She will always stand by you no matter what you do, even if she hates the things you're doing.

[ashvryn]

Monster with a side of daddy issues anyone?

[rosys-fans-fics]

How Gortash reacts to Durge’s new lover

Gale

Out of all four male romance options, Gale is the one Gortash would like the most. Someone who is also intelligent, ambitious, messing with power beyond his control. Gortash likes how that reflects back onto him.

He thinks you’re with Gale because you loved those elements about him.

He’s also the least threatened by Gale being in your life because he has a magical bomb in his chest. If needed, Gortash can find a way to get him out of the picture.

But Gortash is not a possessive man, he would not want to keep you from exploring other men, just as long as you come back to him. If Gale decided he wanted to keep you all to himself, then Gortash would have no problem disposing of that little problem.

Gortash and Gale would definitely be friends, both nerding out on magic and tech.

Astarion

Gortash sees his younger self reflected in Astarion. Someone who has been used and abused by a master, now free and trying to grasp at any power he can get his hands on so he never has to go back to his past life.

He’s not willing to reflect on their similarities and instead focuses on Astarion’s weaknesses.

Astarion is a walking corpse, he escaped murder before. Would Bhaal not be pleased with the murder of a man who slipped out of his grasp? But Astarion’s death can not compare to Gortash’s death at your hands.

Gortash would also be incredibly toxic and compare their trauma and their escapes. Gortash sees himself as suffering more and being stronger for escaping on his own. He’s unwilling to let go of the idea that he suffered more but rose to such greatness.

Part of Gortash fears that you liked him because he was weak when you first met and now have chosen another weak man.

Astarion and Gortash do not get along and will spit venom at eachother whenever they are within eyesight of the other.

Wyll

Gortash absolutely despises that you chose to partner with Wyll. The young, heroic, and highborn man who’s the complete opposite of everything Gortash views himself as.

You being with Wyll truly confirms to Gortash that the person he loved is utterly and truly gone. Changed so beyond recognition that it’s easier for Gortash to view you as another person just wearing the face of who he loved.

If Wyll has been turned into a devil, Gortash is even more taken aback and disgusted by your choice of him as your partner. Gortash opened up to you pre-tadpole about his time in the house of hope and his hatred for devils.

Part of Gortash envies Wyll’s life. He wants the life that Wyll left behind. To be born into power, to have family that won’t sell you, but to know Wyll left that all behind to be an adventurer leaves sour taste in his mouth.

[alpaca-clouds]

Something that will forever amuse me about BG3 is how the game goes: "Monsterfuckers, we gotcha!"

You can fuck a squidman, you can fuck a bear (werebear?), and you can fuck an incubus. Sure, I personally still do not like the last scene because it is so darn rapey, but... It is there. And it is content for the monsterfuckers.

And then there is also the fack that Halsin does confirm in some idle banter with Lae'zel to be himself a monsterfucker.

And... I think I just had a dialogue in the game that confirmed that some githyanki have a thing for fucking their dragons. Because Lae'zel talked to my romanced dragonborn durge and was like: "Don't worry about our dragons, we will reward them with treasure and other things. You have dragonblood as well, I am sure I will find something you'll appreciate too."

And, I mean... What can I say? Like the DnD world generally is just filled with a lot of monsters that will pass the Jack Harkness test in flying colors.

(Note to self: Monsterfucking March writing challenge?)

[bharv]

My TikTok is full of people saying Durge canonically has been with Gortash and I’m here to say for all the people who are taking this second hand information and running with it?

It’s not true!

It’s ambiguous as ever! There is no concrete reference to it being romantic or sexual at all! At most the new lines confirmed that:

He missed the slightly combative nature of your relationship, whether that was sexual, romantic, platonic, or as colleagues.

He sees you as a Bhaalspawn of particular standing and does not expect you to fully defer to him. He sees you as a worthy sparring partner who is on a level he can respect.

That’s it. You are free to read this as whatever but it’s so silly seeing people say that a durge who is a lesbian or ace is now invalid because of these four lines.

[archduchessgortash]

Unpopular opinion...

These two were NOT manipulating each other.

They tried, at first... but it didn't work. They were too evenly matched in terms of charisma.

Default Durge is a sorcerer with charisma for their casting stat and proficiency in intimidation (from their background) and persuasion (from their class).

Pre-tadpole Durge, much like Gale, Wyll, and probably Shadowheart, was unlikely to have been level 1. It is most likely that pre-tadpole Durge was between level 9 (same as in-game Gortash) and 12 (same as in-game Orin). It is also possible that, as a Chosen, they may have had their stats similarly boosted, akin to those of the Chosen we fight in-game.

If we assume Durge was level 9, without any special boosts for being the Chosen of Bhaal, they had 2 feats under their belt, which would most likely have been invested in bumping charisma up to 20, placing them 2 points above Gortash, who has 18 charisma. This means they would potentially have had an easier time convincing Gortash to do what they wanted than many players probably suspect.

I find it more plausible that they respected and admired one another.

When Gortash greets any other origin than Durge, he is in full-on charming yet pushy, cleverly manipulative tyrant mode. He needs the help of these prism-bearers to fix the mess that he surely believes that they, alongside the Emperor, caused by killing Ketheric, given Gortash is unaware of the Absolute's manipulation at the time.

Gortash is more friendly with Karlach, but in a more patronizing, saccharin sort of way, that sours very easily if she behaves as though she is even slightly troubled by how his actions have harmed her. He clearly and sadly does not respect her, in spite of how deeply she had previously trusted him.

He is also in his sassy manipulator mode when speaking to Orin and Ketheric in Moonrise Towers, in spite of the fact that they are allies.

With Durge, however, he appears not unlike a man whose mask has been torn away to reveal his true self. He is happy to see Durge in a much softer, more genuine manner than we've seen from him with anyone else. He feels like a different person with Durge, especially if met alone. Is this not how we, as real-life people, react to our safe people, the ones we trust, with whom we can be our authentic selves?

Let's discuss 'not looking for Durge' which many cite as proof that Gortash saw Durge as nothing more than a useful ally...

We, as players, have no reason to believe that Gortash had any idea that Durge was even alive until the scene at the start of Act 3, in which Orin confirms their survival and that she caused their brain damage and subsequent memory loss. I've found no evidence that Gortash knew Durge was alive before this scene. Why would Gortash look for them if they were dead? If they were slain in a Bhaalist duel in the Temple of Bhaal, what reason would he have to believe he would be allowed to see the body? If they were slain in Moonrise Towers, they were most likely consumed by the Absolute. It's logical and reasonable that he wouldn't look.

If he knew before the scene with Orin, why did he sound surprised, pleased even?

Playing devil's advocate, let's say he did know... we'll say Orin told him what Gortash tells Durge, that she humiliated them sometime prior to the start of the game. If Durge truly valued Gortash, wouldn't they have come to him, even humiliated?

Isn't it reasonable to think that, if alive, having not come to Gortash after their betrayal, out of shame or a belief that he wouldn't help, Gortash might believe that Durge simply did not have the same high opinion of him as he did of them?

We can take it a step further and consider whether Gortash knew everything--that Durge wasn't dead, that they were tadpoled, about Kressa's experiments, and how they became the first True Soul.

If he knew all this, he is definitely a consummate manipulator, even better at it than a vampire with over 200 years of experience manipulating people. That Astarion is using the main character is intended to come as a surprise to the player as a layer to his narrative, but I, as the player in my own playthrough, saw through him immediately. I know some people didn't. I don't know how they didn’t. He was obvious to me. Why, then, does Gortash feel authentic? It's certainly not a question of attractiveness. To me, they are both attractive.

Perhaps it is my logical brain recognizing the fact that there is no evidence in the game that Gortash was aware of Durge's survival until Orin told him in the scene at the start of Act 3.

Now, let's talk betrayal...

Durge's Prayer for Forgiveness is most likely pre-tadpole. More on that later.

Ketheric's intention to betray is noted in the document Elder Brain Domination, its context indicating it was written post-Durge's impromptu lobotomy, and most likely quite some time prior to the document we find in Act 3 confirming Gortash's intention to betray the others as well.

The entry we read in the Journal of Enver Gortash is quite clearly written after Ketheric's defeat at the hands of the 'vagabonds' as he refers to them. This could mean that Gortash never intended to betray anyone, not until Ketheric failed to recover the Astral Prism.

About the Prayer for Forgiveness...

We find it in the mind flayer colony. The likelihood that Durge would ever have written down their intention to betray the others pre-tadpole is a bit suspect, made even more so by Balthazar's post-note about Orin. I know we need the note for lore, but that could easily have been accomplished by making it a memory that returned via the narrator, as many other Durge-specific pieces of lore are provided to the player. The fact that this one is only in the form of a note has always made me wonder if Durge was forced to write it after the tadpole was inserted, most likely by Balthazar before sending them off on the Nautiloid.

If anyone has other evidence, especially the contradictory kind, please comment. I'd love to look at this further.

[riza-hawks-eye]

The Dark Urge is just a mimic of whatever race you choose for them. The dialogue you get if you long rest alone on the first night confirms that the Dark Urge is disconnected from their race any surrounding communities.

A big part of a redeemed Durge's story is being able to reclaim that identity that Bhaal never let them have.

Imagine a Tiefling Durge learning infernal from Karlach. Or an Elf Durge learning Elvish from Astarion. Imagine Githyanki Durge getting vigorous lessons from Lae'zel on Githyanki customs. Or Drow Durge paying the Drow twins at Sharess' Caress for the whole night just so that they can ask them questions about the Drow of both the Underdark and the rebels of the surface.

It's a new adventure for the former Dark Urge.

[lillotte17]

I just woke up, so good morning, let me see if I can string any words together in a coherent pattern. This has actually been on my mind for weeks. Slowly driving me insane.

200 years. Two. Hundred. Years. 2 HUNDRED years.

That amount of time is literally incomprehensible to us in terms of personal memories and trauma. We can barely remember anything collectively as a species for that amount of time without losing bits and pieces of it. It is more than 2/3 of the time that Astarion has been alive. Well, "alive."

I am currently in my mid thirties, it would be like if I had died when I was 7 or 8 years old and then had to try and remember everything about my personality and my family and my morality from that time period. I do remember it, of course, but a lot of it is pretty vague. A lot of things that I know happened, or that I know I did, I remember because there are other people in my life who knew me then. Astarion wasn't a child, of course, but time still has it's way with things, and there is no one in his life he knew from before he became a vampire, with the possible exception of Cazador, and he's hardly a reliable source of information. Trauma also damages memories, and he has spent more that 2/3 of his life being constantly starved and beaten, and abused in pretty much every possible way a person can be.

The main point being that it is simply not possible to make any firm assumptions about the kind of person Astarion was before he was turned. Maybe he was a horrible, power-hungry, back room dealing, lying, racist, POS trash-man who deserved what he got when that group of thugs jumped him. Maybe he was kind underneath all his bluster, and had a strong sense of justice, and he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most likely, he was something in between. But we can't know. And Astarion probably doesn't really know anymore either.

(I firmly believe that Cazador chose him specifically to be a spawn, and possibly even orchestrated the attack on Astarion. They might not even have really been Gur. Astarion would only have Cazador to rely on for confirmation about what really happened to him that night, and having a culture of people who hunt monsters and were likely already targeting Cazador himself be the same group that murdered Astarion seems pretty mmmm convenient.)

And for all that he is a chaos gremlin, prickly rat-bastard, dumpster fire of a man, it is honestly pretty astounding (and rewarding imo) just how much growth he can have over the course of the game, which is only a few months, tops. (assuming, of course, that you are playing a good aligned Tav/Durge) But even before that, after the first night he tries to bite you, he is the one who immediately promises that he's not going to feed from innocents, with no prompting at all from the player. He doesn't ask to keep feeding from your PC, and he only drinks from you if you offer it. (unless you direct him to in a fight, I guess, lol) That feels huge to me. He has been STARVING for 200 years. Part of being a vampire is that he's always kind of starving, but he doesn't want to be a slave to that hunger any more than he wants to be a slave to anything or anyone else.

I'm not saying that he's secretly a good man deep down, but even from the start, the potential for him to be better was already there. Which is AMAZING because, as I said earlier: TWO HUNDRED YEARS.

Like, imagine that you know absolutely nothing about yourself except misery and torture and losing things, and it fucks you up, and you KNOW it's fucked you up, and you are terrified that one wrong move could send you back to the place that you just escaped from, and you still say, "I'm still not going to attack the innocent people around me for no reason, though. Sure, I might laugh if they manage to get themselves killed in an amusing way, but it's not going to be my fault."