alijuan

[alijuan]

Reddit is hit-or-miss but when it hits, it fucking HITS.

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When people new to DA say things like "I didn't play any of the previous games before I played Veilguard" that's fine, but to then turn around and say "well, because Veilguard says [lore thing] that means everything in the previous games is false" makes you look willfully ignorant at best and [redacted] at worst. Veilguard did not do a good job with three games of established lore. New players apparently came out of datv not knowing what a Circle is, for crying out loud???

People who wanted to see the Veil removed have a basis for the belief that it might usher in a new age for Thedas that could ultimately make things better for elves, mages, and spirits. Or at least change the world in an interesting, exciting way. That basis was given to us by the first three games. For example:

Flemeth

"We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment . . . and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly." (DA2)

PC: "Why did Mythal come to you?"

Flemeth: "For a reckoning that will shake the very heavens."

Morrigan: "And you follow her whims? Do you even know what she truly is?"

Flemeth: "You seek to preserve the powers that were, but to what end? It is because I taught you, girl, because things happened that were never meant to happen. She was betrayed as I was betrayed--as the world was betrayed! Mythal clawed and crawled her way through the ages to me, and I will see her avenged!" (DAI)

Sandal's Prophecy

"One day the magic will come back, all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." (DA2)

Cole

"The Veil isn’t real. It’s false, fake, fabricated to forbid. Isn’t it wonderful?"

"Cole: Is there a way to save more spirits, Solas?

Solas: Not until the Veil is healed. The rifts draw spirits through, and the shock makes demons of them.

Cole: Pushing through makes you be yourself. You can hold onto the you.

Cole: Being pulled through means you don't have enough you. You become what batters you, bruises your being.

Solas: Yes, exactly. Deliberately crossing the Veil requires that a spirit form will, personality.

Solas: That concept of self gives a spirit the chance to maintain its nature.

Solas: Wrenched into this world unwillingly by the rifts, spirits suffer the same fate as my friend.

Cole: Then we will help them." (DAI)

Morrigan

"Change is coming to the world. Many fear chance and will fight it with every fiber of their being. But sometimes change is what they need most. Sometimes change is what sets them free." (DAO: Witch Hunt)

"Mankind blunders through this world, crushing what it does not understand: elves, dragons, magic . . . the list is endless. We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing more than the mundane. This I know to be true." (DAI)

I haven't even touched on what Solas says, due to his bias/the way some people refuse to consider his insight at all, even though he knows the most about the Veil of any character in the series ever. For obvious reasons.

Due to the above evidence, I completely agree that the Veil coming down would probably be catastrophic to some degree. I disagree that it would have "destroyed the world" or "drowned [it] in demons" as Veilguard loves to repeat over and over, mostly from characters like Varric who don't know jack about the Veil, magic, or spirits. And I disagree that people who wanted to see what would happen if the Veil came down are wrong or misguided--they obviously just paid better attention to what the overarching narrative than some. It isn't their fault that this more interesting and dynamic narrative was retconned to shreds and buried in the backyard.

[alijuan]

An adventurer, just like you.

This is a reupload, but I wanted to touch up this illustration because I wasn’t too happy with the original colours.

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Do you think Balduran and Ansur ever… um… while in dragon form…

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I love Larian and divinity but I agree, bg3 should've been called something else. Larian keeps adding to their games and are overly ambitious (both a good and bad thing). They still have bugs to fix in DOS2, and ignore fans who bring them up, and these are big bugs. There are broken endings and quests that go nowhere (actually). I think people underestimate how similar bg3 is to dao and other crpgs (including past divinity games) and overestimate how much plot is from the first 2 baldur's gate games. Another confusing thing I saw, (must be because a lot of people's first crpg was bg3) people were saying bg3 had an infinite amount of content and how new that was for video games? Have they never played WOTR or any crpg with several playthroughs worth of content? It also does not help bg3 that D&D, despite being the inspiration for a lot of other ttrpgs, isn't that interesting (to me).

Before bg3 was released I finally finished dos2 so I had flashbacks while playing it, especially with the group of chosens and dealing with the gods (it's not really important, but I didn't like this variety of gods because it took the focus away from the Dead Three and Bhaal in particular, especially in Tav playthrough). Later I realized it was DAO with illithids. The infection, the camp (interactions with companions, strange dreams, attacks, guests and more), the slow move to the city, gathering an army, the battle for Denerim, oh, sorry, Baldur's Gate, illithids ー darkspawn and Brain ー Archdemon suppressing their will and controlling them. And that's just the most obvious stuff. It's anything but Baldur's Gate. Larian did a clever thing by calling this game Baldur's Gate 3 to increase its popularity, but I don't respect them for it. Maybe they tried to tie it to BG2 with the Underdark, illithids, vampires and so on, but they missed the point.

Yeah, for many people it’s their first introduction to rpg and dnd. It's good that this game got them interested because many of them want to play other games, including DA and Pathfinder. On the other hand, because of this, there is so much admiration for bg3, praising it for typical rpg elements and turning a blind eye to its flaws. Same with people, who haven't played the original bg and aren't familiar with FR, talking about bg3 as a good sequel that respects the lore (especially after datv, I even left the veilguard community because I couldn't read it anymore).

About the content, I don't get it either. Variability is the basic characteristic of rpg. And bg3 is not that great in this regard to praise this game as something unique. In general, bg3 has so-called good or evil playthroughs and different ways to achieve the same result. Pathfinder, for example, has much more global choices. The most of the variations in companions, but that's nothing new either. Shadowheart has the complex plot, but Daeran is similar, his plot has 4 outcomes depending on the mc’s choice and his trust. The only unusual thing I see in bg3 is that they tried to cover every possible scenario.

I like dnd and Forgotten Realms, but I understand it could get boring. But I think if you take a deeper lore, you could make something interesting. They could have revealed more of Bhaal and Durge. I like Durge, but it's more because of my headcanons and dnd lore that I'm looking for myself. The game itself gave me almost nothing. The lack of interaction with the bhaalists, Orin, and Sarevok, as well as the general hollowness of the world, made me miss the old games. The bhaalspawn crisis is over, and it can't be like before, but why make it so boring. Durge is the former cult leader and Chosen. It could have been an interesting end to the series if they had done a proper sequel with more emphasis on Durge and Bhaal, cult and so on. Durge is the creation of Bhaal’s blood and flesh. Titans, who are above demigods with mortal parents, were created from blood. Elves, divine children who inherited Corellon's characteristics, were created from blood. They could add more depth to explain the connection between Durge and Bhaal, the divine nature, than has been shown.

Their attempts to reference past games made me want to roll my eyes. Especially references to Gorion's ward and stories of how they escaped their fate, because to me Durge is in a slightly different position. It was funny when Wyll said that considering in the canon Abdel was killed, and Bhaal was resurrected. That's the point, you can't escape, especially Durge, Larian literally showed it in the game with Sarevok. Unless you have a powerful patron, in this case Jergal (and this is interesting but the game also gave nothing). The problem is that you have to guess and headcanon everything. A lot of people outside the fandom still don't know Withers is Jergal, plus a lot of people played as Tav, who lost the logic of the story. I've seen people justify this (and Tav's poor connection to the story) by saying that bg3 is like a dnd campaign and you can create your own canon. Pathfinder WOTR is an adaptation of ttrpg, but the necessary lore has been explained (and mc was tied to the plot). It creates the complete story. BG2 also gave me freedom, the fulfilling world and story.

Anyway, if bg3 was made by a group of nerdy dnd fans, it would be better, I think. Because I got the impression that they read the FR and BG wiki and then wrote the script for the game. I know there are dnd fans among them, like Welch, and it shows in Durge and ascended Astarion, who copied Strahd (vampire lore in the game is weird though), but all those moments and superficiality gave me that feeling.

[alijuan]

I resent the glorification of BG3 over Veilguard not only because Larian copied BioWare (and not very well imo) but also because that game was a disappointment to me. I expected a sequel to BG2 but got DOS3 at best, if not a copy of DOS2. Although Durge as the culmination of the series hits the spot for me, it’s one of the few things that got me stuck with BG3 for so long.

Not like Veilguard, because DA was special to me, but still disappointing. Especially problems with lore and sometimes its superficial presentation, with a few good exceptions. And Tav as an alternative main character who doesn't fit into the series or even the plot of BG3 (typical Larian). Sorry for all Tavs, mine too, but their plot is boring and sometimes alogical; they’re not much different from Rook to me outside of roleplaying.

Larian tried to copy Bioware but it turned out to be more a parody to me. BG3 is still a typical Larian game. Hollow world that can’t be compared to DAO, the oddities and changes in lore for the sake of narrative, not a very interesting group dynamic (inspiration from BioWare is so obvious here but so superficial; it’s progress for Larian because relationships between companions weren't in their games before but overall it's average).

I think they were trying to evoke a sense of nostalgia. Astarion is a good example of this. They changed tiefling to white-haired elf who reminds Zevran, Fenris and Dorian at the same time. At least they changed that he wanted vampirism and paid for it, otherwise it would not only be weird for a young high elf to be so greedy for vampiric immortality but he'd just be Fenris 2.0.

Even compared to other similar games, BG3 is not brilliant. I usually use Pathfinder WOTR as a modern example because it has similarities with BG3 but better in many aspects, including choices, respect to lore, mc’s connection to the plot (if we speak about Tav) and many more, with much smaller budget. In my opinion, Owlcat is a better successor of classic CRPGs. Not to mention that Owlcat doesn't rewrite character stories or change scenes after release for the sake of fanservice. They stand up for their ideas when it comes to adding or changing something in their game for fans (Larian would never).

I disagree that Larian released a finished game. The third act looks rushed and unfinished, the epilogue came six months later, the evil endings only a year later. It wasn’t a final product on release because they're still changing cutscenes and dialogues like it's early access. But finally someone said that Larian didn't do something revolutionary. This is how RPGs work, and a lot of the standards came from BioWare.

I am just a little bit annoyed how everyone is comparing Bioware to Larian....

Not because I think we should be too lenient towards Bioware. God and everyone who follows me on this site knows how massively disappointed I am with Veilguard and that I am not expecting them to deliver on the next Mass Effect.

And Larian has done an outstanding job with BG3.

However: the praise Larian has gained also served to show how low expectations in the gaming industry were. I read and hear time and time again how Larian supposedly has set a new standard in gaming but they actually didn't?

What have they done? They released a finished well written and well rounded RPG. An RPG with diverging story branches and player choices with consequences.

Do you notice something? THIS IS NOT REVOLUTIONARY, PEOPLE!

A revolution by defintion entails a course of action that is entirely new and a complete break from what was done before. Larian did not do that. They simply fulfilled the PRE-EXISTING criteria for an RPG. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yet, since standards have appearantly fallen so low in the respective genre, everyone acts like adhering to the working definition of an RPG and selling a complete product is somehow revolutionary. Literally nothing about that is new. It should be standard.

And it breaks my heart everytime someone compares Bioware to Larian in this regard.

No, before you come at me, not because I want to defend and protect them. They 10000% deserve all the backlash (minus the death threats) they are recieving. But because Baldur's Gate was originally a Bioware IP to begin with.

Larian did not do anything revolutionary. They built on what Bioware has already established. And you feel the old Bioware DNA even in BG3.

You feel it in the characters, their stories and personalities, the dialogue. They brought back old characters like Minsc and Jaheira. My heart breaks a little more everytime I feel these pieces of OG Bioware. Like echoes of an era long gone, only to realize it is not Bioware.

I feel its spiritual proximity to DAO. Sometimes the combat music even reminds me of DAO combat music. I briefly think I am playing my Warden before I snap out of it and see my sorceress Tav between Astarion and Karlach. And my heart breaks.

Boo, Minsc's hamster, was originally referenced by Shepard having a hamster when the player decided to purchase one. Shepard's hamster made the same noises as Boo in BG2 and Shepard even used Minsc's signature line in regards to him "Go for the eyes." in the Citadel DLC.

Now Minsc says Boo is a miniature giant SPACE hamster and I tear up because I instantly think of Shepard and my heart breaks. Breaks but also warms because Larian thought it was important to still honor the original inventor of Baldur's Gate with a Shepard reference in return.

To sum it up: it is so frustrating to see people comparing Bioware to a developer studio that was conforming to standards implemented by Bioware to begin with.

[alijuan]

A deeply fucked up Durge who romanticizes death because murder victims are grieved and cherished regardless of how unloved they were in life. A Durge who has experienced this tragic loss so many times that it becomes a defining moment in all of their relationships, yet knows no one will ever mourn them (ie truly love them) in return.

A Durge whose darkest desire is to be missed. And they will never know that kind of love, even if they succeed, because they must outlive every person who could possibly grieve their loss.

Gortash missed them.

[alijuan]

big lizard

[alijuan]

Making his parents proud | Castlevania: Nocturne season 2, episode 8, "A Line of Great Heroes"

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🌘

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dao thru dai: the world is built by unreliable narrators. everyone has a vastly different opinion on things that colors their perception of life and the state of living. there is no one real answer

datv: the veil cant come down because thats bad

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ALUCARD | CASTLEVANIA: NOCTURNE

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The Creation.

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Dragons returning at the beginning of the Age symbolize the return of the world's origins.

Dragons ruled the skies, as ancient knowledge and Yavana said. The divine form that Evanuris copied. Thedas was a paradise when world that dreams and world that wakes were connected, spirits and titans were at piece, and dragons were in the skies. After the disruption of the paradise by the first of the Elves and the creation of the blight, a force of evil and wrath, as a result of their "sin", this world is out of balance. Now all the key forces – dragons, elves, spirits, titans – must return. Many thus think that the Dragon Age will come to represent a time of violent and dramatic change for all of Thedas.

Tearing down the Veil is the logical outcome in this narrative. The Veil is a temporary solution, a fragile cage that in some ways only makes things worse. One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide.

[alijuan]

After Trespasser I thought there would be something else besides the Veil. It's hard to tell for sure from these sketches, in my opinion the main problem in DA4 would have been not Solas' goal of tearing down the Veil itself, but his plan to freeing the elven spirits from their bodies. It's also possible that Solas is doing this to save the elves, because there's no other way. This world is doomed after the first elves destroyed the original “paradise”, leading to the creation of the blight, which probably would have been the main danger he would try to save the elves from, because I doubt that "blight is different now" is a solution the devs originally had in mind.

I will save the elven people, even if it means this world must die.

Then the Inquisitor's role would have been to convince or stop Solas from destroying this world by restoring the old world. And the Veil would have fallen anyway, I think. It would explain not only Solas' words but also Sandal's prophecy.

This is canon to me. So my Lavellan, being the important character (not like in Veilguard), has recognized Solas' plans and somehow (by giving a way to solve the problem with the blight, or something else) convinces him that there is no need to return to the prehistoric world. And I think Solas was hoping that his friend would find a different solution.

The Inqusitor: You don't need to destroy this world. I'll prove it to you. Solas: I would treasure the chance to be wrong once again, my friend.

[alijuan]

Wanderlust