#durge boss fight

[kawareo]

My Durge's stats pre-tadpoles are absolutely insane so I've been thinking what it'd look like if Orin failed to lobotomize him... Like the fight with him a Tav would have to win?

It'd be a bitch but there'd be fun options to make it easier and winnable

Him and Gortash would be working together still but what'd complicate things would be that Bhaal would've grown impatient and reduce Durge to a mess that would've dragged hinself in his temple and stay there. When Tav talks to Gortash, Gort has a massive fresh scar over his neck where Durge nearly killed him last time they were together. Gortash sends Tav to the temple but he fully expects/hopes they would die and that that could bring Durge back to his own mind.

If Orin would still be alive? Tav could make a deal with her that she'd help them find the temple, where she'd eventually need help in the combat with Durge, but if Tav would've helped her, that'd initiate a fight with the entire temple and with Orin, who'd be furious that you intervened.

Then, fight with Durge would be a bitch to win, but there would be some ways to get around and make it easier. Most of all would be useful a Persuasion or Deception proficency, and also going around Baldur's Gate and finding information about him - what would be Tav's best option would be to provoke Durge to a degree that he loses his already fragile cool and Bhaal forces a Slayer form on him - that way he loses his spellcasting abilities and also the double attack he gets from his fighter levels, and his paralysis weapons!

Options for that would get him to lose his shit would be

- [Deception] Gortash has sold you out, you mad dog. You've grown too unpredictable after what happened, we're here to put you down.

Has Advantage if Tav found notes between them or used Detect thought when talking to Gortash and asking him about his injury. He lies to Tav's face but thinks about how Durge mauled him last time they fucked and Gortash had to fight him off of him

- [Persuasion] Look at what you've became; Chosen of Bhaal, yet fighting His gifts? Your own Kin died for what you're rejecting so.

Only available if the above mentioned Orin thing happens. Durge stares at her corpse for quite a while, then proceeds to sort of... Give up. Accepts the Slayer and surrenders himself fully to his Father.

- [Persuasion] [Unholy Assassin] You think you know better than your own god, Chosen? You, who has failed him so in every way?

He starts to yell at Tav that he didn't fail, then as if something hit him, clutches his head and starts begging Father for forgiveness (reciting some parts of Prayer of Forgiveness). While he prays, he cuts himself, the blood drips down his arms and draws itself into the circle of Summoning for the Slayer.

When Tav wins, Durge lays there dying for just a bit longer, stares into nothing and clutching at his wounds and begging Father to forgive him because "im not done yet, Father, please, I can do better, plea-!" And then his eyes roll up suddenly and he dies in a moment, when Bhaal chooses so. His body falls apart and leaves behind only the Stillmaker, his Netherstone, and a half-writen letter that's like Prayer of Forgiveness, but adressed to Gortash and one Durge never got to finish.

The idea is very rough but essentially I love the thought that Bhaal is the one who fucks it all up because he can't be patient for two minutes, and Gortash is still delusional enough for him to hope Durge can go back to normal. If you win and kill Durge, Gortash will be upset and surprised, but will kind of shut off the grief in the moment to focus on dominating the brain. If you would've lost, the canon ending would be that Durge pulls through with the stones, him and Gortash get the Brain under control, and then Durge almost immediately slaughters both of them, leaving Toril to the Brain's mercy.

Another bonus option in the dialogue would be to tell him that you killed Gortash, but if you lied or didn't have Gortash's head to prove it, he would just laugh at you. That option wouldnt be a good idea in any way, because if you wouldn't pass the deception check (DC20) or wouldn't have the head, the laugh would clear his mind enough for him to focus on the fight (not as a Slayer) and if he WOULD believe you, he'd get so angry that he would start a fight with an extra feature that would be an absolute bitch to deal with.

[leyartser]

*runs into another one of her victims* God she's such an artist <3

[asteriasfallingstarsandtears]

It kinda drives me nuts that Gortash spills the whole Absolute plan in front of everyone at the Coronation. What the hell man, I know you're killing everyone after I leave, but still?

In front of everyone? Anyway, what if Durge went to visit him the night before? What if he spoke some phrase that was meant as an invitation that only the Durge would know or be insane enough to know it's for them?

[tavs-brainworm]

Ascending Astarion and immediately changing his color scheme from blue to black >>>>

[abelas]

I beat honour mode 🥲

[maleficore]

I'm sorry but the second Durge turns into the Slayer when fighting any Bhaal cultists they should all immediately go "aw shit nevermind". I don't care that Orin supposedly has them in her pocket, you can't convince me that people that fanatical about their worship can see the avatar of their god manifest before them and still try to beat the shit out of it lmao

[maegalkarven]

Nemo was that kind of the leader who acted overly familiar with his subordinates. He knew them all by name, knew their habits and quirks. Helped two of his men move homes and lay low after they got under suspicion of the Flaming Fists. Took several starving orphans off the streets and made them into the unholy assasins.

His subordinates could approach him, talk to him, touch him. For him the cult of Bhaal was a family and he made it feel that way for many initiates to come.

He made it feel like a special club with people who are better than everyone else, where people ascended over the "normal" understanding of things, became better beings.

Is it a crime for a wolf to eat a sheep, for a man to crush a rat under his feet? Is it a crime to get rid of the vermins populating YOUR city? No, it's only the right thing to do; this is not only accepted, but expected.

He accidentially lowered the level of religious worship of the entire cult and made it more self-sustained. Of course all of them were doing it in Bhaal's name, for Bhaal, by the Bhaal's will. But holy assasins rarely hear Bhaal the way bhaalspawn does, so they heavily relied on what their leader, the Prodigal Bhaalspawn, told them.

They trusted him, they followed him.

And one day he disappeared and Orin climbed the ladder.

[communistfries]

Spam kissing astarion while my husband sorts all the bones and candles he looted i love being a gamer ❤️

[clowndensation]

the question is: if i side with the goblins, do i get to see wyll and karlach again later in the game after they abandon my ass for being evil.

[asterdeer]

nothing like blazing through the cazador fight with almost 0 damage taken, not even on baby mode, perfect party dynamics for once, and then immediately picking the wrong astarion dialogue so i have to do the damn fight over again. love that. thanks fangs, love that for me, i have nothing but time and energy to baby you out of your homicidal impulses, please let's do this five more times, it's so much fun

[autisticforbg3]

So early today as I was reading some posts I came across something interesting involving the soundtrack that plays during a durge run! (Lightly Referenced spoilers btw for The Urge quest line.)

On the soundtrack a song that will play for both Tavs and any Durge run is “The Legacy of Bhaal.�� However, when you are playing The Dark Urge this song is more likely to play more often. In a standard run, this song acts as enemy music for battles.

In a durge run however…

The song acts as fight music not for the enemies that you’re fighting, but for the enemies fighting YOU. The melody is quite literally announcing The Dark Urge’s presence on the battle field and the faint shadow of Bhaal cast by the disgraced blade. It isn’t rocket science to see the song name and the vocals heavily imply that the song is one that heralds the Lord of Murder.

You are essentially the boss fight, you’re the one stealing the show! It’s such a subtle shift in atmosphere to realize the music is essentially your wwe entrance.

[y-rhywbeth2]

I’d love to know your opinion on BG3 Sarevok as a fellow BG1-2 enjoyer!

Personally I very high-key dislike his existence in the game (as well as the Five tbh). I also dislike that Orin’s genesis seems to ignore any of his ToB character development (even if he remains evil). But honestly, the rest of the Durge/Bhaal subplot I enjoy a lot, so in the Murder Tribunal I simply:

The short version, on an emotional level:

And while adapting BG3 onto my own personal Realms Sarevok is absolutely not present. He's fine! He's one of my Charname's high priests and, having gotten bored of playing lackey courtesy of his ambitious nature, is now plotting to usurp her as a god (Solath is aware of this, and amused, and encourages him. Godhood can be lonely and boring at times).

The wordier version:

I hate this decision so much. I can actually see how this came about, looking at some parts of BG2. Cernd, Jaheira and Nalia all point out that Sarevok is fundamentally wrong, trapped between life and death and not really either, unable to belong in the world of the living which instinctually rejects him because it shouldn't be possible to resurrect a Bhaalspawn who died-died, or something:

Cernd: 'I... I apologize, Sarevok. I know that there are reasons for your presence amongst us, but... you seem so unnatural to me that I cannot help but be repelled. '

Jaheira: 'You exist; you do not live. You will miss the Great Mother's embrace in time. You are nothing.'

Nalia: 'Keep your eyes off me, Sarevok. I don't know what you are, but I don't want you near me. [...] I know that you're not truly alive, and not undead. You're flesh, but not truly alive no matter what [Charname] did to you. So keep away.'

His epilogue mentions that he was restless due to both regrets and his inability to cope with normal life and never found peace. That was interpreted by 5e as his struggles eventually leading to him becoming an addict, and Bhaal - on resurrection - still saw a use in him and promised him restoration of his divine status and power to fuel his ambition in exchange for service. (Of course that means that Orin and Helena would've had to have been born a long time before he re-joined the faith, and would've been raised Bhaalist by somebody else.))

Bhaal's personal abilities include inverting emotions, including forcing individuals to love and adore him where they actually hate him, so Sarevok could just be heavily brainwashed.

But I honestly cannot tell whether this is intentional or if nobody was paying attention, because so much of the BG2 references are just plain off. (Like: Nobody was fighting to be Chosen. The Five wanted to be demipowers subservient to Bhaal, but they were outliers. Everyone else was either trying to stay alive or replace Bhaal. Nobody could even be Chosen, because Bhaal was too dead to Choose. There was only one prophesised heir to the Throne of Blood and it was explicitly Charname. Durge should collapse into ashes and return to Bhaal on death. Sarevok was never a faithful/religious Bhaalist, and he suffered horribly in the afterlife and blackmailed his way out. Amelyssan was completely erased from existence. The final boss battle was in the Throne of Blood in the lower planes, not the Astral Plane. Larian, what are you TALKING about.)

Ultimately it doesn't matter if it can be justified, I haaaaate thiiiisss.

[alpaca-clouds]

You know, I will endlessly rage on the topic of how BG3 does allow for so many ways to play the game - but not for a fullon pacifist run. You know, speaking as someone who often plays pacifist TTRPG characters. But I do understand that the game does not want to keep like 50% of its game mechanics from you - meaning all the battle mechanics and stuff. I still wish that at least some of the boss battles could be avoided through negotiations, but I understand that a fullon pacifist run is just not something that a video game intends to offer.

However... There really is one combat encounter that I just... It drives me nuts so much. And that is the "rescue Halsin" encounter in the first Act. Like, I get the entire discussion we can have on the topic of "Goblins are evil, and hence killing goblins is fine". It is not a believe that I subscribe to.

But really, my main issue in that encounter is... The goblin kids. I recently tried literally everything in my Durge run to avoid killing the goblin kids. Were they cruel to Halsin? Yes. But they are bloody kids. If you grew up rurally there is a good chance that you have at some point seen some kids throwing rocks at an injured animal. And responsible adults will reprement them, but they will not KILL THEM (hopefully)!

When I did my first Tav run, I had used up my daily charge for mind control, so I was forced into that fight either way. But now with my Durge I mind controlled the goblins and went like: "Hey, I am a True Soul, let that bear go." And they did. Only for Halsin go: "It's murder time!"

And while I can tell my team to use non-lethal damage in that fight... Yeah, Halsin is just gonna murder. And given he is closer to those kids, they will most likely die. After trying for basically ever, I managed to block Halsin from going after those two kids, and let them run. They left the room and are now gone. (No, they did not raise an alarm.)

And I am sitting there: "Halsin, you are supposed to be a good guy. Can we not at the very least agree on not murdering any children, whatever species they might belong to?"

Sure, it kinda makes sense under the idea that Halsin is a werebear. And as a werebear, sure, he might be a bit murdery when angry. But...

[crossdressingdeath]

I'm still rather charmed by the fact that, if you search through Gortash's bedroom shelves after the boss fight, you can find a biography of Dribbles the Clown. I guess Wyll isn't the *only* member of that fanclub. (Which may explain a) why Durge can remember going to the show before and b) why Orin specifically named Dribbles as a target)

You can find what in Gortash's room?! I'm going to have to backtrack, see if I can still get in there now that Gortash has gone to the Morphic Pool.

Anyway, that's... actually kind of cute. Clown nerd. And the image of Gortash taking Durge to the circus because he really likes Dribbles and he wants Durge to see the show is very very fun and really does explain why the serial killing cannibal leader of Bhaal's cult has gone to the circus before. And Orin deciding to kill Dribbles just because Gortash likes him is... very her. So petty!

[backonrepeat]

BG3 Villains modern corporate au

Gortash: tech bro/genius entrepreneur. His "rags to riches" story has been covered in dozens of think pieces and business profiles. Probably was on one of those 30 under 30 lists, or something, at some point. He plays the "outsider" card to great effect (terrible haircut, fancy sneakers, no tie,...) and is quite popular, despite the numerous reports on the terrible working conditions in his company and his ideas not being near as profitable as he makes them out to be (or not being entirely his at all). Despite all his wealth, he's still ultimately beholden to his VC investors, Bane Inc. (I don't want to say he's like el*n musk, because i despise that man but... He's exactly like el*n musk except more charismatic and with jason isaacs' voice)

Orin (and Durge): nepobabies. Super rich family, Succession-style, where maybe dad Bhaal was the one to make a fortune and all his kids ride on the coattails of his success, fighting amongst themselves to be the one who gets to succeed him. Durge is the heir apparent, smart, charismatic, and with a true killer instinct, until Orin leaks some scandalous info that gets them cancelled and fired from the company. (Gorion's Ward is the kid that left the family to go and be a social worker or activist)

Ketheric: old school CEO, inherited a small family company, he used to be a good boss and look out for his employees. After a bitter divorce, and a fallout with his daughter after she came out, he buried himself in his work, became obsessed with success to try and win his family back. He sold the company to a large multinational in order to run Aylin's rival company out of business, screwed over his employees (and himself), and has been unsuccessfully trying to reconcile with Isobel ever since.

Auntie Ethel: runs a very successful MLM essential oils scheme

Raphael: bastard son of star lawyer Mephistopheles, tries his best to follow in his father's footsteps, to become a cutthroat lawyer. He even starts screwing his secretary, Harleep (Mephisto's spy, of course), to emulate his father's toxic behaviour. Deep down, he dreams of Broadway (and is part of an amateur musical theatre company)

The Emperor: former activist, now part of a political large lobby, still convinced he's on the right side of things. Tries to get all his activist friends and colleagues to join the lobby, after all the pay is so much better, and is puzzled when they refuse and call him a sell-out.

Vlaakith: career politician. Has been in office for what feels like forever, there's no removing her. There are better, younger politicians in her party who have great potential, but she sabotages them in order to remain in power.

[animentality]

So one thing I wish we’d seen fleshed out a bit more is whether or not Gortash is actually decent in combat. The fight against him is pretty lame at least compared to other bosses and while we know he’s adept with his crossbow we don’t see it get significant use. We know that he hired Karlach as a bodyguard, implying that he may not be confident enough in his skills to keep himself safe from threats. I think she also described him as an indoorsy type at one point, or something to that effect. He relies heavily on the steel watch and guards for safety, which feels pretty par for the course for a wanna be dictator to be fair, but also suggests that he’d rather not end up in direct combat himself. Iirc he also doesn’t have a backup weapon apart from the arbalest but I may be blanking on that.

However, we also know that Durge considered the Hall of Wonders heist a means of testing his mettle in combat, and the fact that they went on to work closely with him suggests that he proved himself in one way or another. The fact that he got his start in Baldurs Gate in a gang before moving on to smuggling and arms dealing seems to suggest a likelihood of some type of fighting proficiency, even if just in knowing how to brawl. And while we don’t know much about the Mephistopheles heist, it’s hard to imagine Durge walking into the Hells next to someone who is useless if shit hits the proverbial fan.

All this to say it almost feels wishy washy as far as if we’re supposed to take away the idea that without outside help is Gortash basically all but defenseless, or he’s dangerous and would just rather not get blood on his hands. The Orin fight is a little disappointing too, but we know from the game just how dangerous she’s supposed to be, likewise with Ketheric. Part of me blames the fact that he doesn’t have an (official in the game) class for us to make better assumptions off of. In fact, all of this really makes me warm up to the idea that he should have been an artificer with a gun, because that seems like the perfect fit for his character.

ANON, Gortash makes no fucking sense stat wise.

He has BOOSTED stats even though he's like an Artificer and his best stat SHOULD BE intelligence.

He used a magical crossbow, EXCEPT HE HAS GAUNTLETS FOR PUNCHING WITH HIS BARE HANDS?

He technically belonged to a gang back when he was young, but you expect me to believe a dude who plays with ranged toys really wants to GRAPPLE with people?

EXCEPT THAT HE DOES?

Which is so weird.

Plus he seems to love traps and buffs and debuffs, and relying on the Steel Watch, but then it still doesn't make sense with the gauntlets????

So I don't know.

He SEEMS like a squishy little wizard nerd, but the game thinks he has amazing stats even though he looks like a pathetic wet kitten that spilled its milk bowl on itself.

Look at this fucker's stats???

Why does he have high strength and dex and intelligence and wisdom and charisma????

Excuse me?

This freak?????

NO.

His intelligence and charisma, fine, but his wisdom and dex should be 10.

Strength I'll give him only because I suspect he has to at least marginally lift shit to work on in his workshop, maybe.

But dex???? No.

This man does NOT get up out of his office chair. His spine is deforming.

Plus this bitch ain't wise! He's intelligent, but he's not WISE.

Just look what happened with the netherbrain. Didn't see that shit coming, now did he?