#dunmeshi discussion

[sporesgalaxy]

The way Dungeon Meshi does gender makes me insane. It’s stated over and over that Falin and Laios really are more similar than anyone is looking for- Laios directly states as much at one point, Marcille mentions it when Falin wakes up the first time and starts bemoaning not eating any monsters, the magic mirror story even has fem!Toshiro crushing on Laios- but Laios is so protective of his little sister. Laios leaves home to start making a life he can one day share with her. And she leaves magic school because he has failed, and failed so hard that she’s worried that she might never see him again if she lets him leave without her. He wants to protect her from the way the world treats him, but he does not or does not want to understand the terrible truth- the world will never treat her as harshly as it does him, because she is a pretty ‘quirky’ girl and he is a big autistic man. Falin is happy, doing well in her own sphere, making a single friend (because she is still autistic, and has struggles of her own, even if they’re a different kind), but Laios still feels a need to protect her because his experience of this world has been nothing but cold shoulders and distrust all the way down. This story makes me want to sprint into the river. Laios and Falin are the best characters of all time.

Ouhhhhh I dont have time to reread dungeon meshi to give you good sources but based on my doodoo memory and vibes therein: I have to disagree that Falin was necessarily doing "well," and I especially disagree that the tragedy here is that Laios was doing something unnecessary by trying to make a place in the world for him and Falin.

Falin gets along seemingly ok in the world but it's because she's agreeable to a fault .

What's so interesting to me about the Touden siblings is the different ways they've learned to deal with being The Odd Man Out. Laios set out to try and forcefully carve out a PLACE for him and Falin in the world, where they could both openly and unabashedly be themselves.....Falin stayed behind, and learned how to hide the things that made her stick out too much, and how to appease people on the verge of rejecting her and Laios.

That can be functional, but it isn't good. It isn't happiness. It hurts in a million tiny ways every single day, to hide yourself out of fear of rejection like that.

At school, Falin must have spent a lot of time alone before she befriended Marcille, since Falin was familiar enough with the surrounding wilderness that she knew where that small Dungeon opening was. She sought out what happiness she could by following her unusual passions in more private ways, where no one would judge her for it. Falin didn't expect anyone NOT to judge her for her "weirdness" before she met Marcille, so Falin didn't even try to connect with anyone before Marcille at a level more personal than "classmate." That's not doing well. That's not living.

This kind of self-isolation is a coping mechanism for neurodivergence that functions for a while, but it eats away at you. Falin considered marrying Toshiro despite not loving him, essentially because it seemed like the normal thing to do and she didn't think she'd get another chance to be married at all. What if she had gone through with that, or something similar by the same reasoning? Laios lived in a state of being rejected over and over, which obviously hurts like hell. In contrast, Falin was willing to live a life she never wanted just to avoid total rejection. That can be incredibly painful too, in its own way.

Falin and Laios were BOTH tragically fighting doomed battles to find a place for themselves in the world during the time they were separated. Working together, supporting each other, they're able to do a lot more. Cries.

[deletedelight]

it's always so funny when people show kabru as a nagging wife or something like that because he WAS shown as a toxic girlfriend in that one genderbend omake

like it's canon

[mango-macaron]

Tragedy? In Dunmeshi? Yeah it's there alright.

Kabru, an orphan, raised by a high elf who views his species as infants. Who hates monsters because his home town was massacred by a dungeon being overrun.

Laois, alone for his childhood years, floating around and only finding direction in his sister. Wanting to save her because he doesn't know what to do or where to go without her.

Falin, sneaking out of school to see her brother, only in the magic school because of helping one spirit and being outcast by the village that saw her save him. Using her last amount of energy to save her party, knowing she would die.

Marcille, tied to the hip with Falin. Her best friend, follows her and they teach one another. Uses dark magic to resurrect her crush to see it crumble in front of her eyes as her best friend turns into a monster, something she hates.

Senshi, not feeling the same interests as his race is associated with. Treats monsters with delicacy, how he wants to be treated. Saw his olders die from a monster he didn't know, slowly starved in front of him as he barely got enough to survive. Makes sure they don't feel the same hunger he did.

Chilchuck, divorced. The one love he had separating from him, barely seeing his kids. Union worker, has seen first hand how his race has been treated and strives to make them protected as workers.

Izustumi, unable to be wholly human. Part monster, feels pitied on by Shuro's family, can't accept the Touden party's affection since she's not used to the feeling. Craves parental love more than anything, but can't break down the wall she's made of herself. Afraid to get hurt.

Toshiro, alienated from his family much like Laois was with the army. His culture is part of him, engraved into his core, but no one on the island understands. Not even he understands sometimes.

They're all my favourites because I, too, make really depressing oc lore./j

[touden-laios]

[ace-robot-has-matcha]

Trigger: *makes many scenes and shots more cinematic and beautiful than they are in the manga, animates the manga beautifully and brings the artstyle to life, and generally adapts the manga in a very accurate and straightforward way*

Fans: 😑

Trigger: *removes one shot that was in the manga*

Fans: OHHH MY GOD 😱😱 I can’t BELIEVE they cut this shot!!! They clearly don’t understand the manga! 🤬🤬🤬 I’ll never forgive them! Terrible adaptation 😔

[dungeonmeshin]

I kind of feel for Laios in this moment. During my teens I was really into space to the point where one of my friends asked me if it was a fetish. To my face. And I laughed it off because huh what? Space is awesome. But in this instance, Laios gets kind of embarrassed about Chilchuck's question? Like, personal question, for one. Two, we're just enthusiastic about things! I just felt super in Laios' shoes. Even though this interaction passes and everything's fine, Laios still probably lulled in it for a moment like "weird fantasy? me? they see this as a weird fantasy? I'm weird?" and "do they think this is sexual in nature?" so he switches the topic and clarifies himself, just like I had to when I was really into space. Except I very loudly proclaimed "IT'S NOT A FETISH IT'S A HOBBY." rip to everyone who overheard that without context

[blue-unifox]

Tfw u got obsessed w both and both have potential for interesting interactions so you make a lot of doodles.... 👉👈

OH ALSO HAPPY BDAY PYRE!!!

[porcelaintoybox23]

The funniest part about Milsiril is that she acts like a real mom. My mom is somewhat sane, but tons of people have doting, overbearing moms that see them as children or drop by unannounced.

I honestly think she favors Kabru over the other kids she's adopted. She teaches him to swordfight and took him to see her family, a thing she avoided for decades.

You don't teach a pet to swordfight. You tell it to shut up and eat cake.

Milsiril isn't a good mom or a good person, but I think she genuinely cares about Kabru to a degree.

[1lb5oz-chuckanut]

What if he had rodent teeth instead

[sporesgalaxy]

I’ve thought about it some more and I want to rephrase: the specific thing about the way Dungeon Meshi handles gender and autism that makes me bonkers is the blunt way the author states the differences between Laios and Falin’s treatment by the world. If Falin had been the one to try and carve out a space for the both of them, she would have been dismissed at best. But Laios was the one to try that, and for the crime of being a big autistic man, he was beaten for it. Many- most, even- aspects of this world and the real world favor men, when a gender or presentation is favored. Misogyny is extremely present in so many of our lives. But it is naive to pretend that there are no downsides to being seen as a man, especially one of color, or one that’s not neurotypical, or any number of things. Falin faces unique struggles as an autistic woman, usually internal, and usually to do with the social pressures placed on her to be seen as nothing but agreeable. But Laios faces unique struggles as an autistic man, like getting the shit kicked out of him or punched in the face or having people plot to kill him.

I’m super not trying to say that either has it better. Facing conflict because you are incapable of not presenting as exactly the kind of person you are isn’t inherently worse or better than being unable to present at all, trapped within yourself. But the way it’s presented in Dungeon Meshi is fascinating to me.

Ok so first of all I want you to know I GET IT. I HAVE SEEN HOW BAD IT CAN SUCK FOR AUTISTIC MEN IN A LOUD AND OPEN AND PHYSICAL WAY and how NO ONE FUCKING DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT because Guys Are Supposed To Be Tough and You Should Just Stop Acting Weird And Having Feelings and all that bullshit!!!!!!! I watched that happen to someone very close to me over the course of My Whole Childhood. It's fucking dismal and it makes me really happy to see a character like Laios where those struggles are front and center.

BUT! I also want to point out that your wording here, altho it is not your intention to belittle Falin's suffering, makes it seem like her/typical autistic women's suffering is wholly immaterial. Which is NOT true. It's not that Falin's emotional suffering is equal to Laios' physical suffering, it's that their autism/neurodivergence makes them both vulnerable to physical AND emotional abuse, but in different ways because of gendered social dynamics.

•••

(Quick aside: non-autistic men and women both experience physical as well as emotional abuse because of their percieved gender as well, btw. Yes, men get priveleges, but patriarchy harms them, too. You know what, this video discussing the strengths and weaknesses of The Barbie Movie actually explains it really really well. Anyways, back to the main point.)

Due to the different gendered social expectations placed on men and women, yes, men are more likely to escalate social conflict to physically fighting each other. But the same way that doesn't mean that there's NO emotionally abusive aspect to men's social punishment for being too different, the fact that women are expected to use emotionally abusive tactics to address social conflict does NOT mean that there is no physically abusive aspect to the ways that autistic women are mistreated.

The same way Laios' inability to hide his autistic traits puts him at risk for both getting the shit beaten out of him AND being lied to for purely social reasons, Falin's coping strategy of being agreeable puts her at risk for being shunned emotionally AND enduring physical harassment.

If Falin had tried to actively & forcefully carve out a place for herself and Laios in the world, dismissal is NOT the worst that could have happened to her. What Falin's childhood experience being subjected to folk rituals by her mother and rejection from the town REALLY shows us is that, if Falin was TOO unnacceptable to the people around her it would have become someone else's responsibility to "fix" or "cure" her. Her parents', or a doctor's, or a betrothed.

I'll try to find it later, but in one of the bonus comics where we learn more about the Touden sibs' relationships to their parents, one of the things we learn is that their mother tried to "treat" Falin's magical abilities using a variety of ineffective folk cures. Their mother felt pressured to do this by the townspeople's very negative response to Falin's magical abilities, which along with their father seeking advice from a Gnome, proves that the threat against Falin was not completely in Laios' head.

Falin says she saw this as quality time with her mother, but...I mean, girls with unhealthy relationships to their bodies often see childhood dieting and clothes shopping with their mothers as quality time, even if that "quality time" instilled in them a deep-seated belief that they should mistreat their bodies and view themselves as objects to be consumed. Just because Falin thinks of it as quality time now does NOT mean that there was no damage done.

In a world where her social and fiscal autonomy are already highly limited, Falin's physical autonomy is threatened by her neurodivergence, just in a more roundabout way than Laios' is.

[deus-and-the-machina]

ngl I might get crucified for this but I think the dunmeshi yuri/yaoi discourse was stupid and misrepresenting the ao3 factoids. as of today the most written for mlm ship is labru with 69 (nice) and the next most popular has less then half that at 31. meanwhile farcille has 125 out of the 154 F/F ships in the tag. it is by FAR the most popular ship, with the next two most written about sapphic ships being marcille/izutsumi (9) and kiki/namari (4) and also a couple of x readers? so farcille dominates by far

it seems to me that what's going on is that several mlm ships are in rotation in terms of popularity whereas farcille dominates as the singularly popular wlw ship.

and this doesnt mean that the issues people were bringing up about the general lack of sapphic content and the way fandom treats female characters aren't valid, but idk man when farcille fanart is cropping up daily and getting thousands of notes and has about twice more the amount of fics that the most popular mlm ship on ao3 has its like. I dont think this is really a fandom that proves that point.

I would like to see some more variation in smaller wlw pairs to make up the difference though! I dont think I see any tade/izutsumi fics and we need to change that they could be so cute.

[troythecatfish]

Imagine if Netflix released:

Along Side Already Having:

Personally, I think I’d be pretty interesting if Netflix tried to collect The Big 4 Modern Fantasy Anime like they were Pokémon Cards.

What Do You All Think?

[lilypadmomentum]

K, I'm now confused af

I saw fanart angst of marchille x chillchucks

And then there's one person in the comments saying

??? Bro???

Since when are people against straight ships?

What in the tomfoolery is this??

They just ship whatever they want just like how YOU ship what you want

Is this reverse homophob or I'm just dumb and this is a one time thing??

I don't understand

[nulli-cat]

What do you think Laios fav band is? Like what does he listen to?

I keep looking at playlists and it’s all angst songs relating to the story and not his actual tastes

I couldn’t think of any ideas for what he’d like so here’s a poll

These options are super random and idk if he’d actually like any of these

[lavendertrash39]

(CW for discussions of death. Spoilers for up to Chapter 85 of the Manga. There's now also some spoilers in replies and all of that so beware 😅)

shoutout to dungeon meshi for handling death in one of the most unique and interesting ways I've ever seen before.

I feel like it's really easy for when universes allow reviving to happen that life just like... loses its weight. Dungeon Meshi manages to have reviving and species that often mix that all have different life spans, and it's just... so impressive. It's so cool how it all ties together, and you realize as you go on, this has been a theme throughout the whole story.

Marcille has genuinely become one of my favorite characters because of her relationship with death. It feels like it just works so well. It doesn't feel like her feelings towards it came out of nowhere. It's always been there. It's rare for elves to be in parties. But she's in a party. She's in a party with people she knows are going to live not even 10% of her lifespan.

Just... that line. "You run faster than everyone else... so you're going to have to watch lots of people go away." Shit dude. That would've fucked me up so royally if I'd heard that about my own life when I was little.

Marcille's fucking desperation to extend her friend's lives because she can't stand the thought of the other 70-90 percent of her life span being without the people she loves. She's fighting tooth and nail against death because all she can think about is that backwards ticking clock on her friends' lives.

There's so much weight in life. Marcille is so desperate to keep her friends alive. I think a part of me actually shattered when Laios said "Besides, we've known all along how to stretch our life spans without the winged lions power." and they all say those three things Senshi had originally said... it's so simple.

It's acknowledging the fact that they aren't powerless under death. There isn't any ticking clock counting down that they have no control over... they just have to take care of themselves.

Marcille is still going to lose them. It is still going to hurt badly. But she has them now, they're doing what they can now. 100 years is far away, she can start to think about the now. She doesn't have to live according to a countdown.

Idk,, it just hits really hard. I really love this manga 😭

[ghostlight-prod]

ID:

"// ED, dunmeshi spoilers but not really?

one thing i wish we could have seen is senshi interacting with someone who genuinely has a bad relationship with food. how would he react to someone actively sabotaging their access to nutrition by way of an eating disorder or otherwise?"

this is a thought I've been having because i struggle to follow the train of people who are eating better because of dunmeshi because of my own case