#dual destinies critical

[trlvsn]

honestly my biggest issue with aa5 (besides the jury system erasure) is that it doesn't trust it's audience at all. i feel like i'm being shown cocomelon videos as an adult (fuck you 17 counts as adult if i say so), everything is rubbed in my face and nothing is left for optional observation. it's in the gameplay (i can't investigate the places that aren't strictly relevant, i have to follow the notes characters make to progress in a strict linear way, etc), it's in the dialogue (nothing is subtextual, characters explain themselves over and over with annoying clarity and simplicity), it's in the ideas (you basically get a moral of the story summary by the end of each case, there is nothing to learn besides that), it's just. everywhere. tl;dr: BOOOO BORING BOOOORING BOOOOOO

[huesofvioletandpurple]

there's no reasonable excuse for the writers of dual destinies to completely ignore mentioning Clay until his death btw. how much more haunting would it have been if he'd been a reoccurring fixture of the cast and the player realises that his jacket looks Awfully close to the one Apollo wore at the start and then remember that he wasn't in that case and they come to the realisation that maybe something has happened to him and the only way to get confirmation is to continue playing. like c'mon it writes itself

[littledemon55]

Can we talk about how bad the endings of all three Apollo Justice Trilogy games are? 😕 (Obviously spoilers for all three games.) This is just my opinion, I'm not necessarily stating facts.

Apollo Justice, Ace Attorney: A new justice system gets a test run and is supposed to be a huge breakthrough. It's introduced by Phoenix Wright, not Apollo Justice, and it will never be used after this one trial. (Except if you count TGAA's system.)

Apollo and Trucy aren't being told that they're siblings, which would be fine, but yet again this didn't happen in later games either.

Kristoph Gavin's black psych locks never getting explained or his motives in general for that matter.

Klavier Gavin only appears once after this game, as a side character in one case of Dual Destines.

Apollo Justice wasn't the main character in his own game from start to finish.

Ace Attorney, Dual Destines: (I didn't even play this game past the second case. I ended my playthough when Simon Blackquill appeared on screen and everyone collectively lost their braincells.) But I've heard that the police officer is some sort of copycat spy in disguise working for an evil terrorist organisation. If that doesn't sound dumb than I don't know what does.

Ace Attorney, Spirit of Justice:

Apollo: *already said enough*

Wright: *encourages him to do more*

Apollo: *says something lame and obvious, pointing his finger at the queen, what just makes her stumble back*

This entire plot with the kingdom would've been great, if it wasn't as see through as water. Like, seriously, Capcom? It had ALL of the clichés.

Nahyuta Sahdmadhi's redemption felt so dumb and unearned.

Critique to all games: THERE ARE LITTLE TO NO STAKES! NOTHING FEELS EARNED! THE CHARACTERS ARE A MIXED BAG AT BEST! THE FINAL BOSSES ARE ALL UNDERDEVELOPED! EVEN THE MAIN CHARACTERS ARE UNDERDEVELOPED!

(This is my favourite side character btw ↑)

Anyways, I don't recommend these games, except if you can handle badly written plot and linear gameplay that demotivates you to continue playing.

[shitpostingkats]

(for the record. i love the aj trilogy. i'm not trying to dunk on anyone here. just calling it as i see it) one very funny thing about aa4 and aa5 and their active conversation with one another is aa4 is a game about defending criminals. all of whom are at least a little sympathetic but still. committed crimes (but it's still your job to defend them because they still deserve a fair trial and a shot at a better life). and its also a game that's like "hey evidence is cool and all. but like sometimes :) its not enough :) sometimes the law is wrong and sometimes you lie and you win and no one finds out you lied that's just for you to think about at night" (it wasn't even your choice. you didn't even know what you were doing). with that in mind. it's then really funny to play aa5 a game which is begging you PLEASE DO NOT DO BAD THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF A GREATER GOOD. PLEASE FOLLOW THE LAW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. YOU CAN FLIP COPS BUT THAT IS IT. and with that in mind it's absolutely hilarious to me that one of these games was sponsored by the japanese government and it WASN'T aa5.

Oh definitely. I personally wasn't very grabbed by aa4 as much as I would have expected, partly because I was spoiled by playing the great ace attorney games first, and apollo justice brings a lot of things to the table that get further refined in that duology. (Everyone should go play tgaa if they haven't already- *I am dragged forcibly off the soapbox*)

But I find it interesting that in aa4, you are defending criminals, and that's a very good thing. You are Apollo Justice. All your clients are criminals, yes, and through investigation get found out and are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. (Aside from Phoenix, cough cough). The Kitaki's leave the mafia and become honest buisnessfolk. Vera's forgeries are discovered, preventing further pieces from being sold on the black market. Machi actually hands himself over to the Japanifornia courts because it is viewed as more benevolent and trustworthy than returning to his home country. They're all sympathetic criminals, and the court is sympathetic to them in turn. The judicial system is painted as something that reforms people and finds answers.

Meanwhile in aa5, the courts are a mess. There's a whole case dedicated to blatantly showing how legal professionals are being trained to disregard actual facts and the one person trying to root out corruption is murdered. Your client goes behind your back to indict themselves because they don't trust the system to not blame an unrelated innocent party. Multiple times. Aura kidnaps and threatens half a dozen people as a direct response to knowing her brother is going to be executed for a murder he didn't commit. There's multiple discussions of not just copaganda, but actual propaganda for the courts as well. It makes everything about the judical system come of as shady, dishonorable, and in desperate need of reform.

Aa4, the game sponsored by the japanese government, is the story of how guilty people come into contact with the court system and stop doing crime, while aa5 is the story of innocent people coming into contact with the court system and immediately doing so much more crime.

[mitskiluvr]

i only know vague details about the apollo justice trilogy like: something something the dark age of law, goth felon turned into a prosecutor, and narumitsu got married and went on a europe trip

[roseofspades]

I thought the jump from the original trilogy to Apollo Justice was crazy. Going from Apollo justice credits to a full on animated scene with voice acting in the opening of duel destiny is giving me fucking whiplash oh my god why can I hear them?? They have voices now?!! That don’t just say objection. Not to mention how I just watched a courtroom blow up?!!

[topaz-mutiny]

Man, I haven't played Dual Destinies since it first came out.

(oh god it's been 10 years)

Totally forgot about the cutscenes.

Totally forgot about the voice-acting in the cutscenes.

And now that I have watched a truly terrifying amount of Critical Role, it is now painfully obvious that Sam Riegel is voicing Phoenix Wright.

[annonymouslyannoying]

Me: Wow I hate Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies

Some dude: **reasonably criticizes Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies**

Me: WHAT. THE HELL. DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT MY BABIES. (Agrees with the criticisms but is still triggered for some reason)

[attorneys-against-court-violence]

Dan Castellaneta as the voice of Bobby Fullbright.

[nutzgunray-lvt]

This will never not piss me off.

You can't have Apollo be "massively injured" (an actual fucking quote in the game) to where he passes out from his wounds re-opening, and then have him be magically fine the next day.

I like to hc that the courtroom collapse actually had lasting physical effects on the people caught in it, you know, like a courtroom bombing would

[dilfphoenixlover]

I’ve made some ace attorney redesigns, and let me explain the design choices! (Criticism is appreciated, but keep it constructive)

First is Edgeworth! (There are two versions because I couldn’t decide if I wanted the suit long or not)

So this is when he comes back in Dual Destinies, and I always thought his outfit was a little disappointing. So I gave him gloves, ruffles, a pin (which is his prosecutor’s badge) and a different waistcoat.

This was mostly just to give him a more fancy look, and I think it fits him.

So I didn’t change a lot for these two, but for Apollo I just changed his suit and hair.

But for Athena I gave her pants, because the skirt, leggings and boots did NOT look good together in my opinion. So I gave her black shoes to match with everyone else, and I made her hair a lighter color.

Anyway, that all. Let me know if anyone has any questions! <3

[velvees-archive]

save for the dual destinies dlc case, i’ve finished my first play through of the mainline ace attorney games. incredibly solid series. i have a draft with my thoughts on each case in the aj trilogy + game ratings. dunno if i’d wanna post it though, it’s kinda long.

so instead, i’ll post some misc thoughts about phoenix and edgeworth portrayals across mainline/aai + my personal favorite interpretations of them by the writing team!

spoilers for AA mainline and AAI duology

by far, my favorite phoenix portrayal is og trilogy phoenix. the way he interacts with his environment and the people around him is very authentic, albeit rude as hell (which, in hindsight, is even more authentic for phoenix, so…). saw someone’s tumblr post mention that phoenix is such a “straight guy” which…yeah LMAO. real to life accuracy, so much so it’s infuriating. i think what i’ve played of dd’s dlc case captures what i wanted to see from post-trilogy phoenix in that he’s still an asshole and comically stupid, but not actually stupid, if ykwim. something i disliked abt the rest of aa5 and aa6 is how the writing team watered his character down to the following two oversimplifications: “phoenix only wins cases bc he bluffs!” and “uhh...what evidence does phoenix present now?”

don’t mistake a silly man for a stupid man. mia calls phoenix a genius in the og trilogy. phoenix dives in head first but he’s meticulous when it comes to drawing out the truth. most of all, he doesn’t outwardly show how frazzled he is (see that one drew misham quote about phoenix quietly watching the court as he’s accused of forging evidence), even if he feels that way. i get the colorful usage of expressions is for comedic effect but it just makes him look like he doesn’t know wtf he’s doing, and that’s a disservice to his character. yes, he bluffs, but he isn’t clueless. anyway, i’m excited to replay the first trilogy now that i “know” second trilogy phoenix. that might also just be my way of saying “give me back MY phoenix”, bc the last time i’m (mostly) on board w his portrayal is in aa4, and even then i didn’t like the dialogue in his forged evidence trial.

*though, as of writing this, i’ve seen some good arguments abt his forged evidence trial dialogue that make me think ok maybe it was actually pretty accurate. let’s see wht i think on replay

on the other hand, my favorite edgeworth—at least in principle—is post-apollo justice edgeworth. in many ways, i think how he’s portrayed at 35 is how he would’ve been had dl-6 not occurred, barring his career choice. still a bit pompous, still fairly mean (at least on the surface, we all know he cares more than he lets on) and perhaps a bit uptight, but self-assured and just. the writing team makes a point to show that edgeworth doesn’t care about prestige or fancy titles. that feels like him in a way post-first trilogy edgeworth doesn’t. this particular point was fleshed out in aa1 and rfta, tho, so idk if i can give yamazaki credit for it.

there are some things that will always bother me abt post-first trilogy edgeworth (the problems are present in the aai duology as well) where the writing team shoves him into a box teeming with boring tropes for his character archetype.

an example:

creds for both these pictures: me

edgeworth is fine w pictures in the first trilogy, but comes to hate them in the aai duology.

ik it’s small but honestly what was the reason? what justification is there for this outside of wanting to fit edgeworth into a “cold character” stereotype?

bridge to the turnabout and turnabout ablaze are only about a month apart. i’m not buying into the sudden aversion to picture taking, regardless how minute a criticism it is. in any case, i feel like what i’m trying to say comes through w these screenshots: yamazaki’s edgeworth is always just a little off.

i am forgetting where i saw the post and i have too many liked posts to scroll thru to find it again but i saw a reblog?? tumblr post?? abt yamazaki and takumi’s diff approaches to edgeworth, where takumi says edgeworth listens to trot while yamazaki thinks he’d listen to classical music, and if that doesn’t drive the point home, idk wht will.

why then, did i enjoy post-aj edgeworth most? short answer is i’m taking liberties w his development and its implications. while i never completely buy into post-aa3 edgeworth, i can digest and get behind most of him when i’m not nitpicking, unlike w post-aj phoenix. does edgeworth feel a little uninspired and one- as opposed to three-dimensional? yeah, but his core is so strong i can overlook it. i’ll miss seeing a developed edgeworth when replaying the trilogy. him at 35 makes me feel warm inside.

anyway, i didn’t intend to start hating when i made this post bc i ultimately still believe the second trilogy was pretty good, if not overly ambitious with it's storytelling. maybe i'll post that AJ trilogy review.

overall, tho, t&t and aai2 were my favorite games to come out of the franchise. i’m going to do that slow replay of the first trilogy, aai duology, and aj:aa before making final judgments.

[1960z]

last reblog was a post specifically about the original trilogy but this is exactly how I feel about a lot of the ‘criticisms’ of athena’s writing on here as well.

“oh she was never given the spotlight she never had any moments to shine… I’d like her more if she wasn’t so underwritten :/” meanwhile the entirety of dual destinies’ plot literally revolves around her arc. they gave her a fully realised personality and backstory, gave her unique relationships with every single major character in that game; she was that story’s whole emotional core, but apparently that still isn’t enough to catch the attention of these people. idk it feels like you would only think she didn’t get any focus is if you were actively trying to ignore her at that point.

“athena should get her own game!!” she did babe, it’s called dual destinies

[lexch4n]

Ok so just this comparison is not good.

On the right you have the official drawing of Apollo, made by Kazuya Nuri, to present the character.

On the left, it's the look at 3d models for Dual Destinies : the point is not for the 3d models to look good, it's just to show what they are. That's why all the characters make a very neutral pose that doesn't match their personalities ; 3d models are like dolls.

If you want to compare, then take Apollo full Body illustration from Dual Destinies by Takuro Fuse, that is a good way to highlight the differences of style.

What I just want to say is don't make unfair comparison, try to take two elements that where made with the same technique/in the same goal.

I never realized just how badly they fucked him up but wow

[oodlyenough]

aa5 update while i'm thinking of it:

finished 5-3 turnabout academy the other week and honestly i enjoyed the hell out of that entire case, lol. i thought the npcs were all funny (robin is the MVP), a lot of the reveals were hilarious, i am dual destinies klavier's #1 fan apparently.

assigned prosecutor at birth

the lore of Law High School was something i'd seen mentioned in fandom sometimes and i always rolled my eyes at how stupid it was but in true ace attorney fashion it was in fact SO stupid it came all the way around to being hilarious. themis pumping out under-educated self-described prodigies who only know how to eat hot chip, forge evidence and lie. funny as hell. junie and apollo's weird oedipal moment right in front of klavier and athena's salads was hysterical.

i love the idea that japanifornia has stricter age limits for being a crane operator than for being a lawyer or a judge. hugh the 25 year old deciding to go to themis instead of ... regular law school.... so he could experience the triumphs and defeats, the epic highs and lows of high school mock trials is funny as all hell

athena's ptsd sprites are pretty haunting looking, i have to say.

have since started 5-4 turnabout cosmos and so far it's not quite as bonkers fun but i'm enjoying it ok. more under the cut:

it feels like we're finally going somewhere and building to something, with athena lore and apollo lore and blackquill lore, etc. i remain ambivalent to simon but i am thrilled to have finally met his hotter meaner gayer sister and i can't wait for more of her. truly what dual destinies has lacked to this point is a mean woman. deliver me, aura.

unfortunately all the clay-apollo lore is goofy as hell to me, but "goofy" is still more enjoyable than "boring" so i'll take it. the "i'm fine!!!!" thing is IMO a classic example of when a prequel tries to explain something that never needed explaining. it's just not that poignant of a phrase to make the crux of this relationship, and clay never being mentioned before is so mels pond/Jack Black in that one episode of Community-core.

ah yes, we all remember that classic scene from ace attorney 4: apollo justice where apollo talks to his best friend clay.

finally: this is the funniest thing they could possibly have written to follow up on a game that ended with apollo's long lost mother knowing exactly who he and trucy are ...and fucking off out of the country to sell albums without ever telling him.

why do we bash deadbeat moms for not being there for their kids and never question if the child has bad vibes or is unpleasant to be around

a lot of my earlier complaints about DD stand -- primarily and foremost that it's ridiculous how much this game doesn't want to be a game. we are skipping so many opportunities to investigate, to present, to connect the dots ourselves as a player, even fingerprint minigames and stuff like that just get auto-completed by athena. i like athena as a character, but i have to wonder if part of the "mary sue" criticism i've sometimes seen is just misguided frustration about how much she autonomously solves puzzles for the player instead of letting the player participate lol.

but considering how much i really thought 5-2 monstrous turnabout was just. like. absolutely brutal. a devastating low point for the franchise ... at least 5-3 and, to this point, 5-4 are more interesting. thank god

[dumbasswhatever]

One thing about me is that I am always down to criticize dual destinies. Any time, any place. I live for it