#donna x leia

[that90sgifs]

2x02 || 3x04

[thatseventiesbitch]

Eric Forman as a dad. It was worth the wait. 😭

[will80sbyers]

[thestupidhelmet]

I'm disappointed That '90s Show isn't getting its third season. I wanted to see the end of that story, which very likely would've/could've wrapped in a 16-episode season 3. Instead, we've got an unfinished show -- like an unfinished fic (those are so frustrating).

I accepted (or viewed) it as its own show outside of That '70s Show. I enjoyed what we got, and seeing more of (mostly) in-character Red and Kitty in their relationship was a particular treat.

I can only speak for me, but I I think the reason T9S ultimately didn't garner enough of an audience is multifactorial.

1) It tried to appeal to T7S fans' nostalgia while also trying to get brand new fans for a show full of new characters (save Red and Kitty) as principals. This middle ground approach made the show neither fish nor fowl.

2) That '70s Show experimented with ideas new to network sitcoms: regular fantasy sequences, regular pot circles, and characters with emotional depth and psychological complexity who are also funny. It has a certain quirkiness -- along with approaching the 1970s setting in a non-gimmicky way; rather, depicting the sociopolitical and economic issues of the '70s seriously.

While the quirkiness remained for many sessions, the commitment the 1970s setting faded -- although the time period continued to remain relevant to the characters' core throughout and to plots through at least season 4, albeit to a lesser extent than seasons 1 and 2.

3) The writing on That '90s Show didn't go deeply enough. '90s references abound, but they're not essential to the who the characters are and the show's plots. The '90s setting is fun window dressing, but if removed, the characters' personalities wouldn't be affected. They're written closer to modern teens who have an affinity for '90s teen culture, not as actual'90s teenagers.

The characters (new to the show) don't have the same level of stakes as those from T7S, whether as an individual or in their relationships. Nothing is necessarily wrong with having lower stakes, but teenagers tend to experience everything intensely, whether or not that intensity reflects what they're actually going through.

For comparison, in T7S we've got the characters' first experiences with sex -- or adding sexual connection to their relationships -- treated seriously and realistically while also deriving humor from these character-developing stories. After Jackie and Kelso consummate their relationship, for example, Jackie's so afraid of losing him that she acts servile in "That Wrestling Show" -- a complete reversal of her behavior so far but substantiated by the writing. Feminist Donna makes Jackie aware of her faulty thinking, which Jackie interprets very much in-character and seizes back control of her relationship with Kelso.

In T9S, Leia and Jay's first time having sex is depicted as cartoonish -- and as an actual cartoon. In writing, form follows function. The emotional stakes are very low for Leia and Jay, which the cartoon device both represents and confirms. While Jay's revelation in the following episode that all the sex he had before Leia was meaningless shows depth, it doesn't lead to any changes for the couple. Jay had already made the shift in season 1 from being a womanizer to a monogamist.

In T7S, Eric and Donna having sex the first time in season 2 is huge for both of them. Donna has trust issues because of her parents' relationship to sex, how they use it to manipulate each other, their lack of boundaries in regard to keeping their sex life private from Donna. She's afraid that adding sex to her relationship with Eric will destroy it.

Once Donna feels secure about her parents' relationship, she feels secure enough to have sex with Eric. For him, connecting with her that way is very deep and meaningful. It's not just the fact he's having sex but having sex with her. The love Eric feels for Donna is very evident and moving during the scene where he kisses her neck and begins to undress her.

In the following episode, however, we learn that Eric and Donna had two very different experiences during their first time. Eric is emotionally high from a) having sex and b) connecting with Donna sexually. Donna, however, didn't orgasm. Worse, she felt so disconnected from Eric while they had sex that she disassociated. Likely because she was terrified and Eric didn't check in with her and remain emotional present for her. He also orgasmed quicky, which is a realistic detail for a male teenager who'd built up this moment in his mind for over a year.

Their relationship is negatively affected by their lack of communication during sex and afterward. They both end up feeling miserable. Eric feels humiliated when he learns the truth of Donna's experience from a secondary source, which is ultimately the result of Jackie's gossipy nature. But Jackie, as ever being the font of experiential wisdom in certain areas, tells Eric his first-time performance was normal -- as a way of taking responsibility and making correction for her not keeping Donna's truth to herself.

The emotional and relationship stakes in this storyline are high. They're depicted as such, and that creates an emotional connection in the audience.

Moving away from sex (mostly), Hyde's home life in season 1 is depicted as precarious. We learn that his father abandoned him almost ten years ago and that his mother is an alcoholic who's had many sexual relationships and exposed Hyde to most of them. We also learn that Hyde's mom has left him for stretches of time regularly.

He grows up in poverty. The state of his house, its furniture, and the TV is proof of that, along with the fact he has six dollars and some cents total at Christmas to buy a gift for Donna.

In "Career Day," we get a glimpse of how Edna treats Hyde. She either doesn't view or doesn't care that Hyde was a child (and still is at seventeen, albeit old enough by then as not to be completely dependent on her for survival) when she exposed him to her sexual partners and provided/provides no parental stability. She acts entitled to her narcissistic behavior, which unfortunately often goes with being an addict. She constantly equates him with his father, the man who abandoned him to the abuse and neglect of his alcoholic and selfish mother. She clearly expects him to take on the responsibilities of a husband in all ways but sex from the time Hyde is nine. She's transferred her resentment of Bud onto Hyde.

That's enough emotional trauma for any kid, but in "Prom Night" and "Punk Chick," Edna's abusiveness is expressed through her words to him whenever he leaves the house. His sarcasm (at times biting) is clearly inherited from her. His paranoid belief in conspiracy theories also stems from having the two people (i.e. his parents) responsible for his physical survival and emotional well-being creating an unsafe, unpredictable environment. His passive aggressiveness, (which is a lesser part of his characterization until season 5 when the writers intensified it to serve the season's final arc / plot) is inherited from his mother, as well

Then his mother abandons him. He's seventeen. His father's nowhere to be found. His uncle's in prison. He has no family. If Eric and the Formans hadn't taken him in, he would've ended up in prison himself or dead.

Once he does move in with the Formans, we learn even more about his home life with Edna. He lived in a house full of vermin. He was not fed properly ... and his mother hit him, implied to be a regular occurrence.

His emotional defenses are totally understandable. But "Prom Night" establishes that he cares so much about the vulnerable, even for people whose personality he finds abrasive and unlikeable, that he'll put his own comfort and safety aside to help and protect them. This is his core, and it's reconfirmed in the last episode of season 1.

In "The Good Son," he doesn't act entitled to the Formans' help. He's grateful and shows himself to be the opposite of what his mother always accused him of: being lazy like his father. He does chores around the house happily and without expectation of reward. It's his way of "earning his keep".

But when Eric gets jealous of Red and Kitty's positive acknowledgement of Hyde, Eric acts out by bouncing a bowling ball in the living room, with the unforeseen result of destroying the TV. Red is furious. Hyde, out of gratitude for Eric's friendship and being the reason he has a safe home, takes responsibility -- which could result in him becoming homeless vs. Eric being punished relatively benignly. Hyde again sacrifices his safety to protect someone else, this time his best friend.

All of the above about Hyde happens in season 1 and is depicted throughout a portion of its episodes. One season. A handful of episodes. Plot is created organically from the characters, and the plot -- in turn -- affects the characters organically. Humor rises organically from the characters and plots as to be informed by them rather than the characters and plot being manipulated to fit a punchline.

The depth of writing in T7S creates a significant emotional connection with the show's characters in the audience. This depth is what's lacking in That '90s Show despite its pleasures.

Leia, Gwen, Nikki, Nate, Jay, and Ozzie had the potential to become emotionally complex characters. The first few layers are there, but the writing needed to go much deeper -- at least for me -- for a deeper emotional connection to the characters. The emotional stakes had to be higher.

Accepting that T7S S4 Jackie and Kelso are Jay's parents, that Jackie and Kelso divorced twice and Kelso had a child with Brooke during one of them -- or that impregnating Brooke was the cause of the first divorce -- Jay would not have grown into a carbon copy of his father. He would've been a completely different character, affected by his parents' personalities and toxic relationship. I could write a meta about what I believe Jay's personality actually should have been according to the facts of his upbringing.

Nikki is, for me, the most deeply portrayed character. I think the credit goes to the actress for that, not the writing. She has a nuance to her performance the other younger actors lack.

Leia and Gwen, from T9S's first episode (and through season 1), have a massive amount of chemistry that season two (particularly the second half) intentionally dismantles. I'm not saying all the characters in every show evarrrr need to be LGBTQ+ in some way, but Leia's unhappiness in Chicago in the '90s could've had a much deeper, higher stakes reason than T9S gives us (which pushed the limits of my belief).

Leia being bisexual or gay and hiding this fact at her old school would have explained her misery believably, as she's written and depicted in T9S S1 E1. Discovering Gwen through Gwen's window (queue the Melissa Etheridge song if you want; it was released in '93😅), the freedom of expression Gwen displays, the obvious attraction Leia experiences to both (which doesn't have to be romantic or sexual and canonically isn't) -- with different writers (or Netflix allowing it because they can and have made mandates to showrunners about LGBTQ+ content in the past) -- a perfect set up.

I absolutely would've written Leia as bisexual or gay and Gwen as being gay. In the '90s, a teen discovering their sexuality doesn't fit heteronormative society was much harder than it is for teens today (and it's still difficult). Pushing the LGBTQ+ rep to a side character who is barely depicted as a character in season 1 is a safe choice. Making the protagonist not straight in a '90s setting would have opened the storylines and upped the emotional stakes.

As Cosima from Orphan Black says, her sexuality isn't the most interesting part of her. This would (and should) also be true for Leia and Gwen. But Gwen being out to her family and friends would've helped a very-much-in-the-closet Leia navigate her understanding of her sexual orientation and given her a group of people who accepted her vs. what she experienced at home: having to hide an essential part of herself to be safe and accepted.

Had That '90s Show taken writing risks instead of writing to the middle, it could have been a successful descendant of That '70s Show. The essence of T7S, at its best, is having emotionally complex characters, significant stakes, humor arising organically from the first two items listed, integrating the '70s setting into the characters' essence and plots, and innovating with the fantasy sequences -- which weren't all '70s references but the characters imagining scenarios for themselves and other characters (e.g., Red joining the circle; "I am Whipped-Cream Head. Fear me") -- and the 360 circle scenes.

The essence of T9S should've been, imo, to innovate not imitate. If Jackie/Kelso are together in that version, then write the consequences of that seriously for Jay. Kelso in T7S is clearly a product of his upbringing. We hear a lot about his family dynamics but meet his father only once and only one brother out of his six siblings. Jay would not be a Kelso clone -- but I'll save further discussion on that for another meta.

[piperslovebot]

#interrupted

[chaoticfvckingdisaster]

ik no one watches That 90s Show and That 70s Show was so long ago its obscure anymore, but I have to talk about the parallels between Leia and Gwen and Eric and Donna and how that just fuels my ship for them more. Leia having Eric's old room and Gwen having Donna's old room, and them sitting in the same spots in the basement. There's so many parallels don't get me wrong I LOVE Jay but Leia and Gwen would be so cute together

[topperscumslut]

Let’s Talk About Jay Kelso

Warning: spoilers for That 90s Show

So I just binged T90S, and I’m not really sure how to feel, particularly about Jay. On one hand, I did really like his character, but not as much as I thought I would. And part of me thinks that’s my own fault for creating this idea in my mind of exactly what I thought he would be like without the show even being out yet, but part of me feels justified in my disappointment in the way his character was written and I’m wondering if anyone else agrees with me on this.

Jay started out really strong, he was flirty and charismatic, yet cheesy and respectful. The first two episodes have kind of blurred together at this point since I pulled an all nighter to watch this and I’m coming down from my caffeine high, but I saw a lot of potential for his character that I really didn’t see fulfilled in the rest of the series. Let me preface this by saying that I do not blame Mace Coronel, who plays Jay, AT ALL for this. I adore Mace and believe he’s beyond talented and did the best he could with what he was given. I blame it on lazy writing. As much as I love both T70S and T90S, a lot of the writing REALLY pisses me off (especially the treatment of Jackie in both shows, but that’s a topic for another time).

In my opinion, Jay peaked in episode three and it was all kind of downhill from there. Again, I still enjoyed his character, but it wasn’t what I expected or wanted from him. And maybe I am just projecting and set unreasonable expectations for his character, but I have a strong feeling the fandom will agree with me on this. Ep3 Jay really felt like the fanon Jay that I had imagined in my mind and had seen in posts from other users on here. He was still a charismatic flirt, but he was also slightly awkward, incredibly sweet, and a little dorky like I had imagined him. Between what I’d seen in trailers, official character descriptions, other tumblr users’ fan theories, and my own imagination, I imagined Jay having the charm of Kelso but much more depth. I saw him as being a bit of a nerd who loves girls but, unlike his father, isn’t a womanizer and genuinely respects them. I imagined him as very introspective, poetic, and intelligent, which I didn’t really see much of at all after episode three. Kelso himself even says in the pilot that Jay has his good looks and Jackie’s brains. And Jackie was always truly intelligent, even though she usually wasn’t treated that way. He was also described as always having a camera with him and constantly taking videos and photos of his friends which, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we saw that even once in this season. In my mind, Jay Kelso was a goofy film geek who’s popular with the ladies due to his good looks and charisma, but in a much more unconventional way than his father is. But as the series progressed, I felt like he became more and more like Kelso. Which sucks because I despise Kelso with a passion.

Let’s talk about what I liked about Jay in episode three. When Leia tries to get Jay to kiss her, he turns her down because he doesn’t want her to be a meaningless fling and because he can tell this isn’t really what she wants. So I was like okay, consent king, respecting women, we love to see it. I also fully expected Jay to be a virgin for a couple reasons. First of all, in the original series, all of the core cast (except maybe Hyde) were virgins at the beginning of the series, EVEN KELSO, and besides Jackie, they were all older than the T90S crew at 17/18, whereas the next gen of Point Place kids are all 14-16, maybe some of them 17. But in T90S it’s heavily implied that the whole gang beside Leia (and possibly Ozzie, since his boyfriend lives in Canada) have all lost their virginity. Secondly, it would be such a plot twist. A Kelso being a virgin? Unspeakable! I fully expected this grand reveal of Jay saying he doesn’t want to make the same mistakes of his father and that he’s waiting for the right person, someone he’s truly in love with, and that person being Leia (though I am glad that Jay and Leia didn’t have sex for multiple reasons. The age of the characters, their lack of chemistry, and the age difference between the actors, to name a few). I was also genuinely surprised at Jay’s lack of daddy issues. All the posts with spoilers from before the show was out from people who had seen tapings suggested Kelso being an absent father who doesn’t really love or care for Jay, which led me to believe Jay would want to be as little like his father as possible, but there was literally nothing about that in the show. Also, a bit off topic, but can we talk about how awful the circumstances of Jay and Leia getting together were? Sure they developed genuine feelings for each other eventually, but it literally starts with Leia being like “hey, I want my first kiss, and my only option’s Jay. Eh, might as well, better than nothing.”

All of these hopes were crushed in episode four when we find out that not only has Jay had sex, which okay, fine, whatever, but he’s also a player who’s broken multiple girls hearts, and it’s implied that he does this on purpose. So basically Kelso 2.0. Cool. While I do have critiques for the other episodes, I did genuinely enjoy them, whereas I absolutely despise episode four to the point where I hardly even consider it canon. Between the horrible light it painted Jay in and the insensitive and disgusting Menendez brothers joke that made me actually pause the show for a good ten minutes to process it and almost give up on the show completely, episode four was horrendous. When Nikki suggests that Jay has feelings for Leia and actually sees her as a person and not just a sex object, Jay seems genuinely surprised at best, if not disgusted. While him telling Leia in the previous episode that he doesn’t want her to be a meaningless hookup implied that he treated all women with this level of respect, this seems to flip the script to say that he sees only Leia this way, because she’s “different.” Why, because she’s the main character, because she’s a “pure” nerdy virgin, because she’s “not like other girls?” Why is Leia put on a pedestal and treated like she deserves better than other girls whereas the rest aren’t worthy of basic respect? (If this sounds familiar, it’s because this is exactly how Donna was treated in the original series as opposed to every single other girl on the show, particularly Jackie.) Because Leia is “special” she “deserves” to be treated with basic human decency, unlike “other girls,” because fuck them, right? At the rave, we see what could have been a cute moment where Leia and Jay confess their feelings for each other, but instead, Jay takes advantage of her vulnerability and arrogantly declares that he “knew it” when Leia admits her feelings rather than telling her he feels the same way. However it’s hard to hold all of this against Jay considering how out of character this seems for him. Episodes 1-3 paint him as kind and empathetic, whereas episodes 5-10 continue that sort of personality for him, but also turn him into a one note love interest that doesn’t have much else to his character. Episode four Jay literally feels like an entirely different character than the rest of the series.

In either episode four or five, forgive me for not remembering, we meet Serena, who could essentially be replaced with a piece of cardboard and nothing would change. Serena literally only exists to be “the other woman” getting in the way of Jay and Leia’s relationship. While Leia, thankfully, isn’t unkind to her just because she’s with Jay, the writers are. Unlike Leia, apparently Serena doesn’t deserve a happy ending, a good boyfriend, or a shred of respect. She’s older, she dresses in a more conventionally attractive way, and her personality is nonexistent. It’s unclear if Jay *technically* cheated on Serena; while Leia calls her Jay’s girlfriend, it’s important to take into account that Leia is an unreliable narrator and it’s entirely possible that Jay and Serena were just casually going out and not official (especially considering they were just going on their first date a day or two before Leia’s birthday), but it’s also a very real possibility that Jay did cheat on her when he kisses Leia on her birthday. Regardless of if they were official or not, it’s pretty shitty that Jay entirely casts her aside as soon as Leia shows interest. Serena who, right? No seriously, that’s literally what he says. If the roles were reversed and it was Leia he did this to, Jay would be seen as a total asshole, but since it’s Serena, we’re not supposed to care. For my swifties out there, Leia is Betty, Jay is James, and Serena is Augustine - just a “summer thing.” So not only is Jay a “player” and a “man whore” as he’s called by his own friend group, he’s also likely a cheater. Sure, he’s Kelso’s son, but that doesn’t mean he has to be a carbon copy. It’s like the writers copy and pasted Kelso into the 90s, edited a few things, and said “yeah, that’s good enough, no one will be able to tell.”

While this may sound like I hate Jay, I really don’t. In fact, he’s still probably my favorite character in the reboot, although I’m probably a bit biased due to my affections for him from before the show came out (and my eight year long crush on Mace Coronel, but that’s irrelevant.) Jay does prove himself throughout the rest of the season, showing that he does care about Leia and exhibiting empathy his father could never muster, but he still doesn’t feel like his own character. While Kelso habitually cheats on Jackie and then blames her for it, admits to using her for sex and money while she’s 15 and he’s 18, and hounds her into sex until she eventually gives in and says yes so he’ll leave her alone (ie: rape), Jay is genuinely kindhearted and would never do those sorts of things (or at least I hope he wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t shock me if the writers decide to ruin his character in later seasons.) Like Red says when Kitty points out that Jay is better than Michael, the bar isn’t all that high. However, Jay does prove himself to be a good boyfriend who genuinely cares about Leia (I don’t use the word love since their relationship developed so quickly and they’re so young, so it’s unlikely that it’s real love, despite the fact that they believe it is). He exhibits true selflessness throughout the series and continually puts himself in the line of fire (usually from Red) to protect Leia.

Nevertheless, good person or not, Jay doesn’t feel original. He seems to exist only to be Leia’s love interest boy toy. Jay lacks the soul I imagined him to have before watching the show. While it’s nice to see the female characters fleshed out for once, as was very lacking on T70S, the male characters lack dimension in comparison. Leia, Gwen, and Nikki, all have their own personalities, values, and ambitions, whereas Ozzie tends to be the sassy token gay friend (although let’s bffr, none of these new kids are straight, but the writers don’t want to admit it), Jay not only feels like Kelso Lite ™, but as the series progresses, him and Nate seem to morph into basically the same person. Two well intended, yet dumb horndogs who lack depth or any true personality of their own beyond being love interests for their girlfriends and comic relief. Again, I love, love, LOVE Mace Coronel, and have since seeing him on Nicky, Ricky, Dicky, and Dawn on Nickelodeon, and don’t blame him at all for the way his character is written. Now if you follow my blog, you probably already know that I absolutely adore not only Mace, but also his NRDD costar Aidan Gallagher, who I fell for after seeing him in The Umbrella Academy. However, Mace was the one I had a crush on as a child and it was very exciting to rediscover him when I first found out about T90S. While Aidan’s NRDD character Nicky Harper and TUA character Five Hargreeves share the same cunning spirit, they’re extremely different in most ways and I was incredibly excited to see Mace show this same sort of range on T90S. And I do believe that Mace has that range, but he unfortunately seems to be being typecast, considering Jay basically feels like teenage Dicky Harper in the 90s. Maybe I’m being overdramatic, but I was really hoping for more for Jay’s character and I was slightly disappointed, and I hope he gets fleshed out more and more deeply explored in later seasons.

Thanks for reading my long ass rant lmao. TLDR; I love Jay Kelso (and Mace Coronel) but hate how he was portrayed. Justice for Jay (oh, and for Serena)

Tagging my favorite T70S/T90S blogs for engagement: @thestupidhelmet @lily-267 @thatseventiesbitch @einsteinsugly @that90sshowgoldencouple

[elianamarie-blog]

I just watched That 90s Show

And it was awesome.

They wrote the original characters like they never stopped writing, the actors never stopped playing them, and they had carbon copies of Eric and Kelso. Seeing the original cast made me so happy. I thought the jokes were going to be lame considering the current time period that we are in, but the jokes were actually funny! The beginning start off a little weak with the humor between the kids, but it essentially got stronger and better I really really hope that they do a second season. They did such a good job and I am so in love what are your guys thoughts?

[ch3rrybom666]

the leia + gwen and michael + jackie water tower parallel... i won <3

[veryberrydreamer]

The Kid is back in action!

[that90sgifs]

Niknate & Formciotti + comparisons

-> requested by anonymous

[thatseventiesbitch]

My  f a v o r i t e  Eric & Donna That ‘90s Show Moments #13

🙈👀😊

[kissandships]

https://www.tumblr.com/kissandships/734989913056018432/merry-christmas-have-a-bunch-of-christmas-otp

Geia and Formciotti pls 😭

Of course :)

Formciotti:

Who wakes the other up excitedly on Christmas morning? Which one begs for five more minutes of sleep?

I feel like Eric would be most excited for Christmas, and Donna would want more sleep

Which one hangs the mistletoe?

Eric, mostly, but Donna will do it too occasionally

Which one cooks? Do they cook together? Do they go out to eat?

I think Eric is the better cook, but Donna would want to help. Once Leia is out of the house, they definitely go out to eat. At like, Denny’s or somewhere like that

Which one can’t sleep the night before?

Eric

Which one dresses like they’re straight out of a Christmas movie?

Eric. Sometimes he’ll make Donna dress up- she hates it

Which one sings Christmas carols loudly and off-key at random times?

Eric, lol

Which one tears open their packages? Which one slowly, methodically unwraps every single one?

Eric tears, Donna saves the wrapping

Who opens their biggest gift first? Who opens their smallest gift first?

Eric would do smallest first, saving the biggest for last; and Donna would do it a random I feel

Which one makes the sappy Christmas speech?

All these answers are just Eric lol. Donna would if she’s had too much eggnog

Which one’s family do they spend Christmas Day with? Does the whole family get together, or is it just your OTP, and any kids they have?

They have to spend it at the Forman’s. Kitty insists. Bob crashes occasionally

Which one buys a gift for their pet?

Surprisingly, Donna. But it’s practical like a collar or a bed

Who dreams of a white Christmas?

I think they both do

Which one munches on candy until lunch time?

Eric

Which one goes to bed first that day? Which one stays up, being nostalgic?

I think both would be nostalgic

Which one is ready to start de-decorating on the 26th? Which one wants to keep stuff up unitl after January?

Donna is ready the day after, but Eric likes to keep it up longer

*********

Geia:

Who wakes the other up excitedly on Christmas morning? Which one begs for five more minutes of sleep?

Leia is the excited one, and Gwen would like to sleep til noon

Which one hangs the mistletoe?

Gwen

Which one cooks? Do they cook together? Do they go out to eat?

I full heartedly believe Leia would be a great cook, they do go out occasionally

Which one can’t sleep the night before?

Both, because Leia won’t shut up about it

Which one dresses like they’re straight out of a Christmas movie?

Leia

Which one sings Christmas carols loudly and off-key at random times?

Gwen, to piss Leia off

Which one tears open their packages? Which one slowly, methodically unwraps every single one?

Gwen tears, Leia slowly unwraps

Who opens their biggest gift first? Who opens their smallest gift first?

Gwen goes for the big one, Leia the small

Which one makes the sappy Christmas speech?

Leia

Which one’s family do they spend Christmas Day with? Does the whole family get together, or is it just your OTP, and any kids they have?

They spend it with the Forman’s, of course! And Sherri crashes lol

Which one buys a gift for their pet?

I think maybe both

Who dreams of a white Christmas?

Leia

Which one munches on candy until lunch time?

Gwen

Which one goes to bed first that day? Which one stays up, being nostalgic?

Leia would fall asleep first, probably while being nostalgic lol

Which one is ready to start de-decorating on the 26th? Which one wants to keep stuff up unitl after January?

Gwen says she wants it down as soon as possible, but really, she loves it. They keep the Christmas lights up til January

[thestupidhelmet]

T9S, Part 3, Episode 8 and Part 3 Overview

Commentary and spoilers:

Kitty picked up smoking again? Just ... the T7S fan in me is shouting objections.

But! Now that I've seen this episode, I can talk about it and Part 3 as a whole.

Again, I watch T9S with two mindsets: 1) as the T7S fan who recognizes how far, and in what ways, the T9S universe diverges from T7S canon and 2) the T9S fan that thinks about the internal cohesion of the T9S universe, regardless that the show's canon conflicts with the canon of the T7S universe.

The final episode of Part 3 explores the conflict between Donna's parenting and Kitty's grandparenting. In an interesting reversal, Donna is the (re)strict(ive) one who worries about Leia having similar teen years to her own while Kitty believes Leia should have more freedom (in part to spite Donna).

Hyde's absence is strongly felt by me here. He would be the one to give Donna perspective, that they all turned out fine -- not despite their teen years but because of what they learned from them. He'd remind Donna that Leia needs the freedom to make mistakes and screw up while trusting that she has supportive family (which includes Uncle/Godfather Hyde) that will keep Leia from disaster.

I'm happy that Nikki and Nate reconciled and why (in this particular episode; could have lived without that succubus who took Betsy's name). Nate has some Kelso seasoning on his character, but he's also got some of Hyde's (the self-sacrificing to make the girl he loves happy). Ultimately, though, he's become more his own character as the series went on.

The writers made what seems to be a conscious decision to dissuade Leia/Gwen shippers and wrote Part 2 and Part 3 with this goal in mind. In Part 2 episode 1, Jay sings Leia a song using Jay/Leia and Gwen/Leia's fandom ship names, saying, "It's Jeia, not Geia," or something similar to that effect. This screams purposeful intent by the writers.

Combined with the fact Leia and Gwen barely have any development, storylines, or scenes of their own in Parts 2 and 3 -- just enough so the audience doesn't forget they're best friends -- the T9S writers sent a clear message to the show's viewers. Compare Leia and Gwen's minimal interactions to Jay and Nate's significant interactions and storylines in Parts 2 and 3.

Both Jay and Nate deal with romantic relationships, but their friendship is never neglected. On the contrary, their friendship has a major arc and continues to develop. Leia and Gwen's friendship is barely seen and somewhat heard.

In fact, Gwen is paired with Nikki more often in scenes, and their friendship gets more development. Not unwelcome, but Leia's attachment to Point Place and newfound happiness began with Gwen in Part 1. The writers killed their chemistry in Parts 2 and 3 by keeping them separate. And when they do have scenes together, with rare exception, they're about other people -- like Gwen's almost-boyfriend / boyfriend.

Ozzie becomes an actual character in Parts 2 and 3, not just a snarky commentator. The connection established between him and Jay and Nate in Part 2 is carried through to Part 3. But by Ozzie's own admission to Nikki, he's a selfish person. I don't think he's selfish, though. I think he's still too separated from the other characters. His life isn't enmeshed with theirs. He has circles with them and goes to some of the same places, and he tells Leia to give Jay a break in Part 2 -- but he continues to be on the outer edge of the group.

Fez in T7S, for comparison, has a strong bond with Hyde from the start of the series and gets involved with Jackie and Kelso's lives during season 1. His friendships with Eric and Donna are less developed, but Fez is enmeshed with the group as a whole from the start and becomes more so as the show continues.

I enjoyed Red and Kitty's relationship and their storylines in Part 3. The relationship itself felt organic. That being said, Kitty's character in Part 3 was not written or depicted enough as Kitty. DJR does a great job with what she's given script-wise. Her comedic timing is on point, but I felt like I was watching a fanfic version of Kitty where the writer doesn't quite understand the character or views her through a bizarre lens.

Mitch depicted and treated as a buffoon was definitely satisfying. Instead of him bullying Fez and Kelso, manipulating Donna, and temporarily convincing Eric's girlfriend, friends, and parents how wonderful he is while effing with Eric (and as a way to eff with him to try to take his place with his loved ones), everyone important sees through him now. He was always pathetic, but he doesn't get away with it on T9S.

Earl's guest appearance and interaction with Red was also a treat

The way the show deals with Tanya Roberts's passing is touching and funny and, I think, a worthy tribute.

Overall, I experienced a drop in writing quality from Part 2 to Part 3, despite that they were produced at the same time. Other people might have a different experience than mine, of course.

I do hope the series gets renewed. I'm very curious to see how the characters' journeys continue. I'm glad we got more insight about Gwen and Nikki's families. I'm sure the cliffhanger at the end will be resolved relatively swiftly, although Leia and Jay's particular conflict will take longer to resolve.

[catherine-the-doll-ballerina]

Here’s the link of the cast “That 90′s Show” being interviewed

https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/tOGBqHnU

[piperslovebot]

eric and donna + jay and leia parallels (ft s2)