#donna and leia

[piperslovebot]

The Pinciottis + freaking out about their relationships with Eric and Jay

[that90sgifs]

2x02 || 3x04

[that90sshowgoldencouple]

In my humble opinion, I think Leia was a wonderful addition to the Forman Family.

I loved her scenes with each other the other family members and can’t wait for more, especially more scenes with Leia and Red and Kitty

[thatseventiesbitch]

I adore Dad Eric and Momma Donna with toddler/baby Leia, it might be possible that you wrote them with “I’m not going anywhere” please? ty 🥳

Thanks for the ask! Prompt Ask Game

"Okay," Donna peered down at her grocery list, her tongue peeking out from between her teeth. "Eric, I need you to go get the corn," she instructed, pointing vaguely to the other end of the grocery store.

"Aye aye, Captain." He gave her an exaggerated salute, causing Leia to break out into giggles.

"Get enough for us, and your parents, and mine. And the neighbors, and their kids," she rattled off all the people who would be at their BBQ.

"Your wish is my command, Skipper." He saluted again, this time adding a spin for dramatic flair. Donna was unamused, but Leia doubled over with laughter this time. Eric petted her hair affectionately. She was standing next to the shopping cart, clutching her little Raggedy Ann dolly in one arm.

"Well at least someone like my jokes."

He set off in the direction of the produce, and Donna steered the cart towards the snack aisle.

"Alright, come on Le-Le." She tapped the back of her daughter's head lightly. "Let's go pick out some chips."

"Yummy!"

The little girl ran ahead of her mom, excited to look at the choices.

Donna spotted hotdog buns, and she stopped to grab them from the shelf. She took a few moments to decide how many packages she needed to buy. Finally making her decision, she tossed them into the cart and then rounded the corner to join Leia.

Her heart quickly plummeted. The aisle was empty.

"Leia?" Donna called nervously. She scooted out into the main part of the store, scanning for her preschooler. Maybe she'd darted to another nearby display? Maybe there were more chips around the corner?

But no. Donna scanned the voluminous space desperately, praying for a peek of her daughter's little brown ponytail, for a flash of her purple t-shirt, but she didn't see her. That's when her heart started to thud.

"Leia!" she shouted it now, abandoning her cart. She flew around the corner of another aisle, and almost crashed into Eric.

"Hey," his arms were full of ears of corn, and he laughed. "Is this enough? I feel like a farmer."

"Eric," Donna choked, and his expression changed as he realized something was wrong. "L-leia. I can't find her!"

He dropped his armful of corn in the middle of the aisle. "What?"

Donna nodded, crying now. "She - she was just - " she gestured behind her, at the chip aisle, helplessly.

"C'mon." Eric grabbed her arm, and they started to fly up and down the aisles.

At the end of the bread aisle, they both heard a whimper. They locked eyes, and whipped around the corner. Sure enough, little Leia was crouched down on the ground in front of the tortilla rack, clutching her Raggedy Ann dolly.

"Hey, buddy, it's okay," Eric scooped her into his arms. Leia immediately wrapped her legs around his middle, and buried her face into his neck. "And that goes for you, too," he said gently, to Donna. She'd let out a sigh of relief and rubbed Leia's back now, but her face was still tense. "It's okay," he mouthed to her, overtop Leia's head. Donna just nodded wearily.

"Mommy," Leia reached out and grabbed Donna's hand, pulling her closer. "Daddy. Stay right here," she whined, a tear still winding down her face.

"We're not going anywhere, baby girl."

[sulietsexual]

Leia & Donna [That '90s Show] Requested by @thatseventiesbitch

[charlieconwayy]

nateleias are about to be insufferable and delusional about Nate dressed like Eric but jay is literally a kelso and there were no other options....

[internetaddict104]

I just realized that since That 90s Show takes place over the summer, and s1 is canonically 1995, and Leia turns 15 in s1, and That 70s Show ended on 1/1/80, Donna was about 2 months pregnant in the finale of That 70s Show

And since Jackie and Kelso’s son Jay is the same age as Leia, Jackie either was also pregnant at the same time, or a few months after the original finale (depending on his birthdate). There’s a slight issue with this though since Jay has his license in s1, meaning he would have to be at least 16, making his birth year 1979, but obviously we know Jackie wasn’t pregnant in That 70s Show

So we got like 2 sets of possible teen parents (and it’s double in Kelso’s case since he got Brooke pregnant in s6)

[will80sbyers]

[thestupidhelmet]

I'm disappointed That '90s Show isn't getting its third season. I wanted to see the end of that story, which very likely would've/could've wrapped in a 16-episode season 3. Instead, we've got an unfinished show -- like an unfinished fic (those are so frustrating).

I accepted (or viewed) it as its own show outside of That '70s Show. I enjoyed what we got, and seeing more of (mostly) in-character Red and Kitty in their relationship was a particular treat.

I can only speak for me, but I I think the reason T9S ultimately didn't garner enough of an audience is multifactorial.

1) It tried to appeal to T7S fans' nostalgia while also trying to get brand new fans for a show full of new characters (save Red and Kitty) as principals. This middle ground approach made the show neither fish nor fowl.

2) That '70s Show experimented with ideas new to network sitcoms: regular fantasy sequences, regular pot circles, and characters with emotional depth and psychological complexity who are also funny. It has a certain quirkiness -- along with approaching the 1970s setting in a non-gimmicky way; rather, depicting the sociopolitical and economic issues of the '70s seriously.

While the quirkiness remained for many sessions, the commitment the 1970s setting faded -- although the time period continued to remain relevant to the characters' core throughout and to plots through at least season 4, albeit to a lesser extent than seasons 1 and 2.

3) The writing on That '90s Show didn't go deeply enough. '90s references abound, but they're not essential to the who the characters are and the show's plots. The '90s setting is fun window dressing, but if removed, the characters' personalities wouldn't be affected. They're written closer to modern teens who have an affinity for '90s teen culture, not as actual'90s teenagers.

The characters (new to the show) don't have the same level of stakes as those from T7S, whether as an individual or in their relationships. Nothing is necessarily wrong with having lower stakes, but teenagers tend to experience everything intensely, whether or not that intensity reflects what they're actually going through.

For comparison, in T7S we've got the characters' first experiences with sex -- or adding sexual connection to their relationships -- treated seriously and realistically while also deriving humor from these character-developing stories. After Jackie and Kelso consummate their relationship, for example, Jackie's so afraid of losing him that she acts servile in "That Wrestling Show" -- a complete reversal of her behavior so far but substantiated by the writing. Feminist Donna makes Jackie aware of her faulty thinking, which Jackie interprets very much in-character and seizes back control of her relationship with Kelso.

In T9S, Leia and Jay's first time having sex is depicted as cartoonish -- and as an actual cartoon. In writing, form follows function. The emotional stakes are very low for Leia and Jay, which the cartoon device both represents and confirms. While Jay's revelation in the following episode that all the sex he had before Leia was meaningless shows depth, it doesn't lead to any changes for the couple. Jay had already made the shift in season 1 from being a womanizer to a monogamist.

In T7S, Eric and Donna having sex the first time in season 2 is huge for both of them. Donna has trust issues because of her parents' relationship to sex, how they use it to manipulate each other, their lack of boundaries in regard to keeping their sex life private from Donna. She's afraid that adding sex to her relationship with Eric will destroy it.

Once Donna feels secure about her parents' relationship, she feels secure enough to have sex with Eric. For him, connecting with her that way is very deep and meaningful. It's not just the fact he's having sex but having sex with her. The love Eric feels for Donna is very evident and moving during the scene where he kisses her neck and begins to undress her.

In the following episode, however, we learn that Eric and Donna had two very different experiences during their first time. Eric is emotionally high from a) having sex and b) connecting with Donna sexually. Donna, however, didn't orgasm. Worse, she felt so disconnected from Eric while they had sex that she disassociated. Likely because she was terrified and Eric didn't check in with her and remain emotional present for her. He also orgasmed quicky, which is a realistic detail for a male teenager who'd built up this moment in his mind for over a year.

Their relationship is negatively affected by their lack of communication during sex and afterward. They both end up feeling miserable. Eric feels humiliated when he learns the truth of Donna's experience from a secondary source, which is ultimately the result of Jackie's gossipy nature. But Jackie, as ever being the font of experiential wisdom in certain areas, tells Eric his first-time performance was normal -- as a way of taking responsibility and making correction for her not keeping Donna's truth to herself.

The emotional and relationship stakes in this storyline are high. They're depicted as such, and that creates an emotional connection in the audience.

Moving away from sex (mostly), Hyde's home life in season 1 is depicted as precarious. We learn that his father abandoned him almost ten years ago and that his mother is an alcoholic who's had many sexual relationships and exposed Hyde to most of them. We also learn that Hyde's mom has left him for stretches of time regularly.

He grows up in poverty. The state of his house, its furniture, and the TV is proof of that, along with the fact he has six dollars and some cents total at Christmas to buy a gift for Donna.

In "Career Day," we get a glimpse of how Edna treats Hyde. She either doesn't view or doesn't care that Hyde was a child (and still is at seventeen, albeit old enough by then as not to be completely dependent on her for survival) when she exposed him to her sexual partners and provided/provides no parental stability. She acts entitled to her narcissistic behavior, which unfortunately often goes with being an addict. She constantly equates him with his father, the man who abandoned him to the abuse and neglect of his alcoholic and selfish mother. She clearly expects him to take on the responsibilities of a husband in all ways but sex from the time Hyde is nine. She's transferred her resentment of Bud onto Hyde.

That's enough emotional trauma for any kid, but in "Prom Night" and "Punk Chick," Edna's abusiveness is expressed through her words to him whenever he leaves the house. His sarcasm (at times biting) is clearly inherited from her. His paranoid belief in conspiracy theories also stems from having the two people (i.e. his parents) responsible for his physical survival and emotional well-being creating an unsafe, unpredictable environment. His passive aggressiveness, (which is a lesser part of his characterization until season 5 when the writers intensified it to serve the season's final arc / plot) is inherited from his mother, as well

Then his mother abandons him. He's seventeen. His father's nowhere to be found. His uncle's in prison. He has no family. If Eric and the Formans hadn't taken him in, he would've ended up in prison himself or dead.

Once he does move in with the Formans, we learn even more about his home life with Edna. He lived in a house full of vermin. He was not fed properly ... and his mother hit him, implied to be a regular occurrence.

His emotional defenses are totally understandable. But "Prom Night" establishes that he cares so much about the vulnerable, even for people whose personality he finds abrasive and unlikeable, that he'll put his own comfort and safety aside to help and protect them. This is his core, and it's reconfirmed in the last episode of season 1.

In "The Good Son," he doesn't act entitled to the Formans' help. He's grateful and shows himself to be the opposite of what his mother always accused him of: being lazy like his father. He does chores around the house happily and without expectation of reward. It's his way of "earning his keep".

But when Eric gets jealous of Red and Kitty's positive acknowledgement of Hyde, Eric acts out by bouncing a bowling ball in the living room, with the unforeseen result of destroying the TV. Red is furious. Hyde, out of gratitude for Eric's friendship and being the reason he has a safe home, takes responsibility -- which could result in him becoming homeless vs. Eric being punished relatively benignly. Hyde again sacrifices his safety to protect someone else, this time his best friend.

All of the above about Hyde happens in season 1 and is depicted throughout a portion of its episodes. One season. A handful of episodes. Plot is created organically from the characters, and the plot -- in turn -- affects the characters organically. Humor rises organically from the characters and plots as to be informed by them rather than the characters and plot being manipulated to fit a punchline.

The depth of writing in T7S creates a significant emotional connection with the show's characters in the audience. This depth is what's lacking in That '90s Show despite its pleasures.

Leia, Gwen, Nikki, Nate, Jay, and Ozzie had the potential to become emotionally complex characters. The first few layers are there, but the writing needed to go much deeper -- at least for me -- for a deeper emotional connection to the characters. The emotional stakes had to be higher.

Accepting that T7S S4 Jackie and Kelso are Jay's parents, that Jackie and Kelso divorced twice and Kelso had a child with Brooke during one of them -- or that impregnating Brooke was the cause of the first divorce -- Jay would not have grown into a carbon copy of his father. He would've been a completely different character, affected by his parents' personalities and toxic relationship. I could write a meta about what I believe Jay's personality actually should have been according to the facts of his upbringing.

Nikki is, for me, the most deeply portrayed character. I think the credit goes to the actress for that, not the writing. She has a nuance to her performance the other younger actors lack.

Leia and Gwen, from T9S's first episode (and through season 1), have a massive amount of chemistry that season two (particularly the second half) intentionally dismantles. I'm not saying all the characters in every show evarrrr need to be LGBTQ+ in some way, but Leia's unhappiness in Chicago in the '90s could've had a much deeper, higher stakes reason than T9S gives us (which pushed the limits of my belief).

Leia being bisexual or gay and hiding this fact at her old school would have explained her misery believably, as she's written and depicted in T9S S1 E1. Discovering Gwen through Gwen's window (queue the Melissa Etheridge song if you want; it was released in '93😅), the freedom of expression Gwen displays, the obvious attraction Leia experiences to both (which doesn't have to be romantic or sexual and canonically isn't) -- with different writers (or Netflix allowing it because they can and have made mandates to showrunners about LGBTQ+ content in the past) -- a perfect set up.

I absolutely would've written Leia as bisexual or gay and Gwen as being gay. In the '90s, a teen discovering their sexuality doesn't fit heteronormative society was much harder than it is for teens today (and it's still difficult). Pushing the LGBTQ+ rep to a side character who is barely depicted as a character in season 1 is a safe choice. Making the protagonist not straight in a '90s setting would have opened the storylines and upped the emotional stakes.

As Cosima from Orphan Black says, her sexuality isn't the most interesting part of her. This would (and should) also be true for Leia and Gwen. But Gwen being out to her family and friends would've helped a very-much-in-the-closet Leia navigate her understanding of her sexual orientation and given her a group of people who accepted her vs. what she experienced at home: having to hide an essential part of herself to be safe and accepted.

Had That '90s Show taken writing risks instead of writing to the middle, it could have been a successful descendant of That '70s Show. The essence of T7S, at its best, is having emotionally complex characters, significant stakes, humor arising organically from the first two items listed, integrating the '70s setting into the characters' essence and plots, and innovating with the fantasy sequences -- which weren't all '70s references but the characters imagining scenarios for themselves and other characters (e.g., Red joining the circle; "I am Whipped-Cream Head. Fear me") -- and the 360 circle scenes.

The essence of T9S should've been, imo, to innovate not imitate. If Jackie/Kelso are together in that version, then write the consequences of that seriously for Jay. Kelso in T7S is clearly a product of his upbringing. We hear a lot about his family dynamics but meet his father only once and only one brother out of his six siblings. Jay would not be a Kelso clone -- but I'll save further discussion on that for another meta.

[cecinestpasunblog]

Make a poll of your favourite female characters (no limits) and see which your followers like the most!

I am tagging @pog-mo-bhlog @billpottsismygf @theheirofhades (no pressure, I just thought it'd be fun!)

[piperslovebot]

@thatseventiesbitch Do you see any Donna and Leia parallels? Aside from them being annoyed about Eric’s obsession with Star Wars, I can’t really find any. I’m asking you since you’re the Forman family expert!

[gingersaurus]

I was having trouble getting in That 90′s Show, for the main reason being the continuity errors of the timeline.

You see, The final episode of That 70′s show ended on New Year’s Eve 1979/1980.  Leia is a teenager in 1995.  Which raises the obvious question, HOW OLD IS LEIA, WHEN WAS SHE CONCEIVED, AND WHO IS HER BIOLOGICAL FATHER???

Eric wasn’t in the final season of That 70s show.  He broke up with Donna and went off to college.  In the final season of TSS (1979), Donna was dating a guy named Randy, but she broke up with him just before the season finale.

This means that if Leia was conceived anywhere between October 1979 and December 1979, She would be just on the cusp of turning 15 in the summer of 1995.  Now it feels pretty unlikely that Donna would have been 3 months pregnant during the series finale and wouldn’t have realized it, so let’s focus on the more likely scenario.  (Edit:  After watching a few more episodes, Leia has her 15th birthday in the summer of 1995.  Either she was reeeeaally premature, or Randy is her bio dad.)

Eric came back to Point Place during the season finale, and he and Donna got back together.  This reunion resulted in them getting frisky, and Leia was conceived on New Years 1980, making her birthday sometime in early October 1980, which would mean that Leia is 14 and 9 months old during That 90s Show.  Now this brings up a lot of concerns about her drinking and smoking at such a young age, but it brings up an even bigger concern and that is:  HOW OLD IS JAY KELSO AND HOW DOES HE EXIST??????

YOU KNOW WHO ELSE WAS NOT AROUND FOR THE FINAL SEASON OF THAT 70s SHOW??? MICHAEL KELSO!!!  And on top of that Jackie was dating Fez in 1979. Jackie definitely was not pregnant, had never been pregnant, and even if she was, how would Kelso have been the father?  And we can only infer that Jay is older than Leia, because he is friends with Gwen’s older brother, Nate.  And Nate and Jay have been friends "for 12 years”.

So the writers are trying to tell me that Jay Kelso is 16 in 1995??? That would mean that he would have had to have been born in 1979!  And look at how much that kid looks like Michael Kelso! That’s definitely Kelso’s son, and not an adopted child.  BUT HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IF MICHAEL KELSO DIDN’T HAVE A SON IN 1979?!?!?!?

BUT WAIT!

MICHAEL KELSO WAS A PARENT IN 1979!!!!!

Kelso was gone during the final season because he had knocked up a girl named Brooke at a concert, and moved away to help raise his “baby girl” with Brooke.  Which means that this baby would be 16 in 1995!  Which means that there can be only one in canon explanation for the existence of Jay Kelso!

Brooke and Kelso didn’t work out, and after they broke up, Kelso moved back to Wisconsin with his child 12 years ago.  He reconnected with Jackie, and they eventually got married.  Jackie adopted Kelso’s child, and became a really great stepmom who made it clear that she loved her child unconditionally.  Jay knew how much his dad and step mom loved him, and therefore felt comfortable coming out to them as trans when he was in his early teens.  Kelso and Jackie accepted their son with open arms

Brooke was also the valedictorian, which means that when Kelso says Jay “has my looks and his mother’s brains! He gets straight A’s!” He is referring to Jay’s bio mom, Brooke.  

So in conclusion, Jay Kelso is trans, and Michael and Jackie are amazing parents.  Also Jay is probably on T because Jackie scared the shit out of some poor doctor.

[that90sshowgoldencouple]

Don't know which of her parents Leia reminds me of more in this moment, but she is totally Eric and Donna's daughter 🤣

[thatseventiesbitch]

Can you do a prompt where Donna comforts Leia after she gets made fun of at school?

I was watching an ep of young sheldon and Missy was wearing a new skirt and she got made fun of for not having shaved legs. I thought something similar would be a cute idea for a t9s prompt.

Thanks for the ask! I haven't seen the show/episode, but I'm gonna run with the whole idea. 😄 If you have a request, send it to me here!

"Hey, Le-Le," Donna smiled at her daughter as she slid into the passenger's seat. Leia clumped her backpack to the floor between her feet, letting out a huff, and Donna blinked, confused by her apparent bad mood. "Um. Happy last day of school!"

"Is it?" The twelve-year-old growled.

"Well aren't you looking forward to summer?" Donna asked absently, as she navigated their car out of the pick-up lane and back into the busy stream of Chicago traffic.

"I was," Leia said lowly. She leaned her head against the car window dejectedly.

Donna frowned. "What do you mean?" They were paused at a stoplight, and she leaned over to shake her daughter's knee affectionately. "You have a great summer to look forward to. You have band camp starting in a couple of weeks, we're gonna visit your grandparents in Wisconsin for the 4th of July, and then our trip to the Black Hills in August. Remember?" Leia still didn't look at her, so Donna continued. "You can play on the slip n' slide with Marcy. I got a big box of those popsicles you like. And this weekend we can go to the beach - "

"Mom, stop," Leia cut her off, her voice swelling with emotion. "I don't think I'm ever gonna go outside again," she announced dramatically.

"Leia, don't be ridiculous," Donna chuckled, but when she noticed the tears in Leia's eyes, she stopped. "Honey, what's wrong?" Her tone quickly changed to one of concern.

"I - it's - stupid - "

"Tell me."

Leia gave an exasperated sigh, and swiped at her tear strewn cheeks dramatically. "Kelsey and Jasmine m-made fun of my legs," she finally warbled. She pulled at the hem of her jean shorts, self-consciously tugging them further down her thighs.

"What?" Donna furrowed her brow. "What do you mean?"

"Th-they said they're hairy," she whispered, bowing her head, ashamed. She ran her palm overtop her shin as she spoke, indicating the light colored whisps that had just recently started to sprout there.

Donna started to laugh. "Hairy? Leia, you're not hairy." She shook her head, bemused. "That's just peach fuzz." Then she frowned. "And even if you were. What kind of friends are they?"

"Popular ones," Leia said under her breath.

Donna continued to frown. "Since when do you care about being popular?"

"I don't," Leia's voice broke as she started to cry. "But they started sitting at my lunch table, and they're kinda mean to everybody so I just tried to you know, be quiet and hope they'd leave me alone, but today they said, 'Ew, look at Leia's hairy legs!' in front of everybody and - and - " she couldn't finish through her tears. Donna pulled over onto a side street and parked the car, before embracing Leia.

"Le-Le," she cooed comfortingly in her ear. "I'm so sorry, honey. You don't deserve that." She pulled back to look at her daughter again. "What are their names?" she implored, her eyebrow raised.

"Mom," Leia groaned, already sensing where her mother was going with this. "No."

"Leia, this is bullying, and it's not - "

"I'm already embarrassed enough," she insisted, shaking her head. "You can't tell the school. Besides, it's summer vacation now anyway," she pitched hopefully.

Donna looked at her for a long while before sighing. "Okay. Then you're gonna have to stand up for yourself next time. Deal?"

Leia made a nervous sound in the back of her throat, and began to wring her hands together anxiously. It was a characteristic she'd inherited directly from her father, and it couldn't help but make Donna smile.

"Uh. How do I do that?" Leia gulped.

Donna shook back a strand of her hair with a tilt of her head. "You don't have to be mean back," she advised her daughter. She shrugged. "Say 'Whatever, it's just hair. And you don't have to be mean to people who look different than you. Our lunch table was a pretty nice spot before you started sitting here, and we want to keep it that way, you know?'" She smiled at her daughter with kind eyes. "They'll get the message."

Leia nodded, transfixed by her mom's effortless response. "You think?"

Donna squeezed Leia's arm supportively. "I know they will."

"And you don't think I'm hairy?" Leia bit her lip and glanced down at her legs.

Donna laughed. "I know you're not." She paused. "But, I can teach you to shave if that's what you want."

"Really?"

Donna nodded. "If that's what you want," she repeated. "Not if that's what," she waved her hand dismissively, "Kelsey and Jasmine want."

Leia held her mom's gaze for a few seconds. "I think - I think I want to wait a little bit yet," she said finally.

Donna patted her hand and returned her focus to the steering wheel. "Good choice," she smirked.

[topperscumslut]

why did they make betsy’s personality in t90s basically the exact same as laurie’s in t70s?

[winnie-the-monster]