#don’t get me wrong I love Steve and his arc

[madbyer]

Steve getting a summer job at 18 bc his dad made him vs Jonathan working since he was really young to support his family. Steve having all of his needs met vs Jonathan having to help pay bills. Steve not going to college bc he didn’t get in vs Jonathan not going bc of his guilt and anxiety about leaving his family. Steve smoking weed for fun vs Jonathan smoking it to cope. Steve ‘babysitting’ Dustin vs Jonathan parenting Will. Steve’s ‘asshole’ Dad vs Jonathan‘s abusive Dad. Steve being excited about his future kids vs Jonathan‘s fear of turning into his Dad. Steve idealising Nancy as his wife vs Jonathan being terrified of holding her back. Steve getting to be a teenager while Jonathan had to be an adult. The audience forgiving Steve but not Jonathan. Steve running from the cops vs Jonathan getting arrested. The audience loving Steve but hating or ignoring Jonathan.

[thestobingirlie]

conformity in stranger things

(as we see it through the characters of steve, dustin and eddie)

dustin meets steve while steve is already heading down his own path — he’s leaving behind ideas about high school and relationships, and figuring out who he is without them.

steve, by season two, had already become disillusioned with the idea of high school, and power struggles, and being the most popular guy in school. which is why he doesn’t react to billy’s taunts.

despite what the fandom may have you believe, steve’s seasons long arc about his struggle with conforming to the person people expect him to be is done.

don’t get me wrong, steve is still hanging onto some ideas in s2, like pretending you don’t care to get girls, and seeing nancy as different to all his other girlfriends (though i personally think that speaks more to steve’s prior relationships than the way he views woman).

and so, dustin and their friendship play a major role in steve fully moving on from the concept of ‘conforming’. steve doesn’t want to change who he is to get people to like him, or love him!

and with dustin, he doesn’t!!!

they make up dorky handshakes, and give each other advice. they talk about girls and steve teaches him how to achieve his signature hairstyle.

their relationship impacts both boys, but neither of them are conforming. it’s pretty much the exact opposite!!! despite what some fans would have you believe steve and dustin have a positive impact on each other!!!

dustin doesn’t change who he is to impress steve! he’s just as dorky as before, and in fact imparts some of that dorkiness onto steve!! steve and dustin help each other to find who they are, and figure themselves out.

on the other hand.

eddie had a negative impact on dustin.

dustin in s3 is dorky. he likes science, and school, and building great big radio towers up hills.

dustin in s4 is failing classes, treating friends like shit, his hubris is at an all time high; all aided by eddie’s high opinion of himself and ideas about conforming.

see. when eddie talks about conforming, he doesn’t really understand what he’s talking about (which is why his fans don’t either).

when he criticised people for ‘conforming’, all he’s really talking about is people being interested in things he doesn’t like. parties. band. science. basketball. he looks down on them all.

he makes snap judgments, and reduces them down to stereotypes. we literally watch him learn this on screen!!!

we literally watch as he verbally recognises that he knew nothing about steve, and yet reduced him down to his interest in basketball.

and here’s where the irony comes in. eddie is literally leading the club on conformity.

everyone in hellfire wears the exact same thing, and he makes fun of the clothes they used to wear. he seats himself on a thrown, and judges anyone that wishes to come before him before he deems them worthy to play a game. he’s not accepting all losers. he’s literally telling them they’re lesser than as he stands on tables in the cafeteria, and then fights against erica playing with them… just because he thinks she has to prove herself to him first.

that’s the point of eddie’s character!! that his whole big speech at the beginning of the season is wrong. and we literally see how he’s wrong scenes later when eddie interacts with chrissy.

people watch eddie learn and grow as a person, and then reduce his character right back down to who he was when he was first introduced.

tl;dr — if one of dustin’s relationships is about conformity, it’s his friendship with eddie, not steve. his brother dynamic with steve is about the complete opposite. about reaching across dumb nerd v jock social divides and finding a family.

in looking up to eddie, dustin has let his other interests fall to the wayside. he’s snarkier, makes fun of steve more (just like he’s been watching eddie mock jocks for months), his friendships with the rest of the party are at an all time low.

and yet. some people would have me believe this is dustin’s truest self? who gets his mormon girlfriend to hack into his school because he’s failing latin. who mocks steve for ‘wanting to be a hero’ when just the season before he was prepared to die by steve’s side.

[fullyinconsequential]

Here’s a 3am Steddie rant I think every Steddie lover (and possibly hater) should hear. I have no goal to convert anyone—just to say that the ship did not actually “come from nothing.” Here’s why:

I don’t understand how there wasn’t Steddie foresight in the writer’s room.

So they play it up in season 3 like Steve just can’t get the girl and when he does she’s not the right girl and yada yada yada—cool beans. I love his character arc with Robin, their friendship, her queerness. I love their entire bathroom interaction.

Specifically: “It’s somebody that I didn’t even talk to in school. Maybe cuz Tommy H. would’ve made fun of me, or I wouldn’t be prom king…. First of all, she’s hilarious. So funny. I feel like this summer I have laughed harder than I have laughed in a really long time. And she’s smart—way smarter than me…. She’s honestly unlike anyone I’ve ever met before.”

Traits Robin Also Has that Eddie Shares:

Outcast

Band Kid

The Witty Banter

Eddie’s personality is VERY Robin. Not perfectly so, but maddeningly close.

Another point:

This is just the same person in different gender specific fonts, A.K.A. Steve’s “love interest” versus a guy who called him “big boy” completely unprompted and interrupted a tender moment between him and his “love interest” and complimented him for an entire scene while Steve wore his clothes.

So, really, one of them’s Steve’s love interest and the other is Nancy Wheeler /hj.

I write a lot, and as someone who both writes and consumes an abhorrent amount of media, whoever wrote this down, casted and costumed this way, and allowed for the interactions between Steve and Eddie to be as nuanced as they were (EX: the scene in which Eddie steps forward like he has more to say to Steve before he goes off and kills himself) had to have known what was going to happen. There is simply no way of not seeing it.

And if they didn’t want people shipping Steddie at the scale which they do, here’s what went wrong:

First: defaulting to Steve wanting his ex back is just plain shitty writing. It means you don’t know where to go with the character anymore, and since you’re certain he’s done all the growing he can do, he’s just gonna double back to the conflict he was in in the FIRST SEASON.

Are you serious right now, bro?

Steve’s arc as a character has been absolutely heartwarming to watch. If anything, he’d have been better off given the “I need to figure out how to be happy on my own” narrative. Throwing him back at Nancy is a cop out, a big one.

Second: Eddie. Throwing Eddie in the mix was absolutely a WILD decision, because he looks like Nancy, he banters like Robin, and GENDER IS NO LONGER A PLAUSIBLE REASON FOR AN AUDIENCE TO DENY CHEMISTRY, OR EXPLAIN IT AWAY. Not in the year of our lord 2023, no sir. Not unless you’re going to explicitly state in some way to an audience that these characters are DEFINITIVELY STRAIGHT. And with Eddie, they went as far off that course as possible.

The outcast stuff. The D&D stuff. The hatred of the system. The mysteriously living with his uncle and not his parents. THE HANKERCHIEF IN HIS BACK POCKET.

So essentially, this is what they did:

They took a beloved character, flubbed over his character arc because they weren’t sure what to do with it.

Then, they created a SECOND beloved character, made him likable, lovable, even, and relatable. Then they gave him half and half personality and looks of Steve’s last two love interests. Then they gave us scenes of them together where they showed chemistry, genuineness, and playfulness.

Then they EXPECTED that we as an audience had enough heteronormativity left as a society to say—oh, those two guys aren’t flirting with each other even a little bit because they’re two guys and obviously that doesn’t happen.

WHEN IN THE SAME SEASON WE WATCHED WILL AND ROBIN GO GAY PANIC AND DESPAIR LIKE?????

Pick a side pick a side, are your characters fucking gay or is your audience fucking blind?

Point being, I have some friends IRL who don’t really get this. They think Steve and Eddie hardly interacted enough for there to be romance at all, but I think it’s less about how much they interacted and more about the (unintentional) set up they were given by the writers.

Steve’s a truly beloved character and I don’t know on ST fan that wants to see him just end up back with Nancy Wheeler like his entire character arc was just to “get the girl” and “have six kids.” Which he already has by the way.

Anyway, that’s just my two cents. I’m not advocating for anyone to ship them, I’m just saying it’s honestly a perfectly logical conclusion to make, especially if you CARE about Steve as a character, you know? We want him to be with someone genuine, someone who challenges him to be better, to be different than he was. Nancy couldn’t handle doing that. Robin could, but they’re platonic af.

So why wouldn’t it be Eddie?

Rest in peace, by the way. You would’ve loved this text post.

[lucystark12]

mike wheeler and jaime lannister are the same character and that also means byler is real 🥳

my last post about game of thrones versus stranger things where i talked about writing and what went wrong with dan and david did pretty well so i figured id elaborate just a bit on my quick side note i had in there about mike reminding me of jaime because it’s something i literally cannot shake. they are so similar it causes me extreme amounts of stress. and im on a two hour flight so i have time to explain it all to you 🥳🤗

to begin, my favorite stranger things characters are mike and nancy and my favorite game of thrones characters are sansa and jaime. if you already see a pattern, then you’re on the right track, because yes, i am a believer in the misunderstood character who is widely hated amongst fans but is arguably the best written one in the given source material. sansa and nancy are both fundamentally similar characters- they both start out as naive girls who are very singularly focused on their reputation and how they’re perceived by the people around them. this is evident in nancy’s relationship with steve and with basically every single action sansa takes in season one of game of thrones. through being forced into a dangerous environment however, both characters learn to shed the ideas they had about what it means in their given world to be “successful” and “important.” i tend to love characters like that because their so realistic. even if we aren’t all being abused by kings or shooting demegorgans, most of us can relate to wishing we were something we weren’t and having to learn the hard way that it’s just better to be yourself

i just wanted to get the nancy sansa pipeline out of the way first before i talk about mike and jaime, because where nancy and sansa are similar, jaime and mike are practically twins.

let’s look at both characters at the beginning of their respective story-

- mike is 12 years old and knows close to nothing except for the fact that he wants to be able to protect the people he cares about. throughout the first season, we see mike’s guilt for not being able to find will metaphorically eat him alive, coming to a head at the cliff scene where when his other best friend is in threat of being harmed, he decides that he would rather die than not be able to save someone he cares about again.

- jaime is mike on a twenty year delay, but his story begins about where mike is at in ~season 3. however, when jaime was about 15, he was appointed to the kings guard, a position he partly sought out to be close to cersei (his affair partner (and sister but that’s a conversation for another day)) (also, mike acts the way he does when will goes missing partly because he’s lost somebody he subconsciously loves too and if you don’t think mike has been subconsciously in love with him this whole time ily but womp womp ur wrong) but also partly sought out because of his notions of what it meant to be a knight- it means that you’re fighting for the people and essentially saving as many as you possibly can. jaime is a character who cares very much about the people around him, similarly to mike. jaime’s situation comes to a similar head when he kills the king to prevent him from essentially bombing the capital city and killing half a million innocent people, which in doing so he puts his own life and reputation at risk

these characters are both so similar because they both value life. they are willing to sacrifice themselves and their reputation in the interest of other people. this is who they both are at the core of their person. however, at some point throughout their arc they both go back on their previous behaviors. they don’t so much regret the way they behaved, but the pressures about their roles that have been put on them by society lead them both to believe that their behavior is wrong in some way.

with mike, i’m talking about how affectionate (?) he was with will in season two. i’m naming what happened after the whole hospital “best thing i’ve ever done” sequence and before season three as mike going through the same thing jaime does in the period between when he kills the king and when the show starts. i think in both of these time frames, the two of them start to have this realization based on the people around them that what they did was wrong and won’t be widely accepted. jaime’s king slaying was treasonous and mike realizes that his love confession coded monologue to will in the hospital wasn’t necessarily normal behavior. this is also the exact time period in which the raegan bush election is happening. they literally probably voted during season 2. id also like to point out that both of them come from very rigid and strict families. and if you’re denying me this for mike, they have a raegan bush sign in their yard.

now we pick up in season 1 for jaime and season 3 for mike. this is where im going to bring up the singular most important part of both of their respective arcs- the love triangle. season 1/3 are the most important times for both melvin and jercei (?). melvin is at peak affection, and basically mike’s entire story for a good portion of this season revolves around her. this is basically the peak of jercei because it’s right before they get separated and their whole dynamic changes. but uh oh! there’s trouble in paradise for both! suddenly mike and el are broken up and jaime and cersei are separated by the war of the five kings. this next part bleeds into season 2/3 for jaime and season 4 for mike, when mike and el are quite literally separated.

so, both of them are separated from side one of their love triangle, who both are using as a gateway to solve what they think is their biggest flaw- jaime his narcissism and mike his sexuality. then, and this is one of my favorite little parallels, they are both literally escorted home by the other side of the triangle, where “home” (hawkins for mike, kings landing for jaime) serves to say the truth about who they are as people that they weren’t quite ready to face before they set off on their respective physical journeys. (mikes trip to california, jaimes push north)

obviously in stranger things mike and will literally go back to hawkins together. in game of thrones, jaime gets captured by the opposing army and is escorted back to the capital by a knight for the opposing army, brienne, under the condition that he will safely return the king’s sisters to him. throughout both of their returns home, they both are forced to come to terms with their feelings just a little bit. jaime admits the truth of his kingslay to brienne, and mike is given the painting. i don’t think mike has put ANY of the dots together on the painting yet, but once he does, this will serve as a HUGE influence on his character development and relationship with will (another thing i could talk about for hours). then they both get home, and jaime’s view starts to shift just a little bit… he starts thinking “hey wait… maybe brienne is onto something. maybe i don’t have to be so terrible all the time and conform to what society wants me to be.” now obviously we don’t know if mike is thinking this way yet, but my guess is that he probably will start having a similar thing next season.

the reason both brienne and will are so important to their character arcs are because in the context of the love triangle or decision their romantic interest is making, they serve to symbolize non conformity and embracing the truth about who you are and what you stand for. brienne isn’t conventionally attractive like cersei and actively goes against what was expected of women at the time. being with will would make him a part of a gay relationship, which was very nonconformist at the time. where cersei and eleven serve in the relationship to show pretending, insecurity, and lies since they are literally the exact opposite of brienne and will. and guess who doesn’t lie? FRIENDS.

so, what i’m saying is that will is essential to ending mike’s character arc just like brienne was to jaime, and that if stranger things fumbles the bag and doesn’t make it happen like game of thrones did, then mike will live in infamy as an unfinished character who had a stupid ending just like jaime did.

also, i am a “jaime should have killed cersei and then died in the fire with her” truther and similarly believe that mike should sacrifice himself in the last summer to come full circle to the sacrificial person he used to be. i also don’t believe in happy endings because they’re boring ❤️

this is why im SO FUCKING NERVOUS about mike. i’m literally having ptsd god help me! 🤗🤗 pls matt and ross learn from the mistakes of your elders and break the game of thrones curse!! as daenerys targaryen would say- BREAK THE WHEEL!!

[holylulusworld]

Not a queen (8)

Summary: You are no one. What if fate makes you queen?

Pairing: Bucky Barnes x Maid!Reader x Nick (Fowler) Barnes

Warnings: dystopian world, modern royal au, shy reader, arranged marriage, idiots in love (kinda), hangover, fluff, cuddling, mentions of groping during sleep

This series takes place in the Two kings universe, at the same time. I recommend reading this story first to understand this universe better.

You can find all arcs here: Of Kings and Queens Arcs

Not a queen 7.5

Not a queen (Arc 2) masterlist

“Hmm…” you mumble in your sleep. Your eyes are still closed, and you snuggle into your pillow to get more sleep. You feel warm and safe. “Hmm…”

“Mouse,” a voice whispers in the back of your mind. “What if I make you mine? I could crawl under the covers and taste your sweetness.”

You feel a warm body press against your back. A hand moves over your arm, tickling your skin. It’s soft and gentle.

“Doll,” another voice purrs in your ear. “What if we both make you ours right now? We can just lay claim on your body.”

You flutter your eyes open only to meet a pair of ocean-blue eyes.

“Morning, doll. How did you sleep?”

“I bet she slept well,” Nick nuzzles his face in your neck again. He inhales your scent deeply and purrs your name. “She was between us, brother. The place where she belongs.”

Bucky presses a soft kiss to your temple. He smirks against your skin when you weakly push against his chest.

“We will go for a walk later. You can choose who will go with you. The other one will stay here. From now on, one of us will always accompany you. These are dangerous times, and we need to keep you safe.”

“You are saying this all the time. What’s going on? I don’t understand,” you look at Bucky, demanding answers. “I deserve to know.”

“You’ll get to know everything today. We will talk about it tonight. Give us a bit more time to sort out our thoughts. Nick and I need to think about a few things. The meeting with our allies was fruitful but…alarming.”

“I don’t understand what you are talking about. You’re worrying me,” you sniff. “I don’t want to be a part of all of this. My life was simple, but it was mine.”

“It was a life the law forced you into. They took away your brother from you! You need to face the world as it is,” Bucky sneers. “A rotten place. Dark, cold, and loveless.”

“Buck don’t scare her,” Nick sighs behind you. “It’s not her fault this world is a bad place to live in. She lost her brothers and parents. I think Y/N knows exactly what this world is.”

You lean into Nick’s touch when he wraps his arms around you. He seems to be in a protective mood, and you don’t mind having him close. “Nick, we talked about this. We will fill her in tonight. Period.”

“Fine, but stop being so loud. I still got a hangover and my mouse is already shaking. You’re scaring her.”

“Doll, I’m sorry,” Bucky presses his lips to your temple. “I didn’t want to get loud. I think it’s for the best when you go for a walk with Nick today. I’m a little pumped up…”

Nick holds your hand, smiling wildly as all eyes are on you and the prince. It’s a rare moment. Most of the time Bucky gets all the attention.

“Why is Bucky mad at me?” You question. “Did I say something wrong? I didn’t want to anger him.”

“It’s not your fault, mouse. Bucky is not mad at you, but at the situation we are in. Our friends…King Steve, his father-in-law, and our friend Tony want us to join a fight we aren’t prepared for. At least that’s what Bucky said.”

“A fight?” You whisper. “What do you mean by a fight?”

“We can’t talk about this here. Let’s enjoy our time in the garden,” Nick stops walking. He cups your face with his hands, leaning closer and closer until you feel his lips on yours.

“Nick,” you mumble, but kiss him back. “What about Bucky?”

“I saw you first. I want to have one thing first too,” he presses another kiss to your lips. “You’re my mouse, and he cannot have the first kiss.”

“It was a nice first kiss,” you shyly look up at Nick. He furrows his brows and purses his lips. “What?”

“Only nice?” He shakes his head. “No. We gotta change your mind.” Nick cups the back of your neck and brings your face close to his. He grins and dives back in.

His lips move against yours, taking your breath away. He slides his tongue inside, swiping over your tongue, snaking it with yours. You close your eyes and let yourself fall for the first time in your life.

Your legs wobble when he finally breaks the kiss. “That was,” you breathlessly say, “a kiss…”

Nick grins. He wraps one arm around your shoulders to steady you.

“That it was, mouse. A kiss.”

Bucky watches you curl into a ball on the sofa. You watch the fire feast on the firewood, yawning loudly.

“No sleeping yet, doll,” Bucky crouches down next to you to run his hand over your head. “We wanted to talk. Do you remember?”

“Hmm…I know. You wanted to tell me about the things your friends said, or want you to do.”

“Why did you stay in the garden for so long, Nick? You knew that we need to talk to Y/N,” Bucky sighs as his brother sits next to you on the couch, grinning. “What is it?”

“I stole the first kiss!” Nick proudly states. “I made her legs wobble, and she suckled at my tongue.”

“You did what?” Bucky grunts. “You fucker!”

“Language, brother,” Nick singsongs. “She enjoyed every second. I told you she’s my sweet mouse.”

You look at Bucky who glances at your lips. He sighs deeply. Of course, he wanted to kiss you first, but he knows his brother always came second. Even to their father. “Did he kiss you good, doll?”

Your cheeks heat up at Bucky’s question. You run your index finger over your lips, still feeling Nick's lips on yours. “It was very nice.”

“I’ll steal the next kiss, Y/N.” Bucky grins. “But only if you want me to.”

“I want you to,” you can believe you just said that. “Maybe tomorrow, when we go for a walk.”

“We need to talk about a few things first.”

“Nick said something about a fight.” You slowly sit up to look at Bucky. “What does that mean, Bucky? Will you get hurt?”

“Buck…don’t…” Nick shakes his head as his brother takes a deep breath. “Can we not keep her out of this?”

“I want to know.” You grab Bucky’s hand. “Please don’t shut me out. If you want me to become your wife, you cannot hide things from me.”

“It’s not a fight,” Nick shakes his head. “It’s…” He grabs your hand to press a soft kiss on your knuckles.

“A revolution I suppose…” 

>> Part 8.5

[thesapphicsoldier]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like most st*ncy fans are Steve fans who want them to get together simply so he gets what he wants. Because I think most Nancy fans know that Steve isn’t what she needs.

She doesn’t want to be her parents, that has been shown to us many times. Marrying young, having 2+ kids, being stuck as a housewife for someone she doesn’t truly love— that isn’t her legacy. She doesn’t want a nuclear family, she wants to be a journalist. She wants a career, she wants a life of her own. That doesn’t necessarily mean she’ll never get married and have kids, but it isn’t her focus. She wants to be happy first and foremost.

Steve has gotten better, yes, and he and Nancy could probably have a happy relationship for a little while. But that’s the thing, it wouldn’t last. Because Steve does want a family. He wants a wife and “six little nuggets.” He wants a big family that he can travel around with, a tight-nit household full of love. And that’s great, but it isn’t want Nancy needs.

Sure, Nancy seemed into it when Steve was talking about his dream future, but just because she thinks she wants it doesn’t mean she does. We know what Nancy wants, because it’s been spelled out to us from the beginning— and if season 5 counteracts that, then it’d just be bad writing.

I think most Nancy fans understand this, at least from what I’ve seen, and that’s why I think most st*ncy shippers are Steve fans. Don’t get me wrong, I love Steve and I want him to have a happy ending— but he doesn’t need a girlfriend for that to happen, especially if it harms the both of them in the long run. And frankly, I think Steve being all Nancy Nancy Nancy in season 4 completely diminished his arc in season 3, and I hope they fix that next season.

[byersfanclub]

This will be considered controversial, but shouldn't be:

Bylers shouldn't be expected to love El as a character. They shouldn't be expected to care about her endgame. They shouldn't have to go out of their way to justify how Byler endgame is also what's best for El (since she'll gain independence.)

No one else is expected to do this.

J*ncy shippers aren't expected to write essays about why their ship being endgame is also best for Steve.

Lum*x shippers didn't have to bend over backwards talking about how much they loved Dustin during s2, and defend why they personally preferred to see Lucas with Max.

J*pper shippers were never expected to clarify that they love Bob, and repeatedly hype up his positive qualities whenever discussing their ship.

El is a character. People should be allowed to like her or dislike her, just like everyone else. Mlevens constantly talk about how much they hate Will, throw slurs around, and make shit up about him that directly goes against canon. But the second anyone says anything that could possibly be viewed as negative about El, they're ready to start world war 3.

I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the people who support the LGBTQ ship being expected to uphold this moral high ground, where they must acknowledge the other ship, care about how those shippers feel, and discuss the virtues of the character who would not be chosen if their ship is canon.

I have never seen another fandom put those expectations on people. In every other fandom, people are allowed to just not like characters and ships.

oh i completely agree. i mean i love el, but she’s not even in my top 5 favorite characters and i simply just analyze her character arc and hope that her arc comes full circle because she gets placed in this box by a lot of GA and m1lev3ns that she’ll be with mike forever and get married which just infuriates me. but no one should feel the need to constantly feel like they have to talk abt how much they love and also ppl shouldn’t feel bad criticizing her character as if she’s done nothing wrong when she absolutely has.

a lot of ppl in fandom fixate on characters they like and don’t tend to delve into others, that’s completely normal. it’s like you said abt jancy and steve, a lot of those ppl fixate on the older party and don’t really care much about the og party which is fine.

overall, agreed.

[mississpissi]

i started writing this in the tags on bulk's post but i got pretty off topic so i'm just gonna put it here.

whenever theres a conflict in night vale, i like think about whats going on in the real world. finknor are really really good at satirizing very real and heavy issues and somehow finding ways to bring out the beauty and awe and community that can exist no matter how bleak things seem- it’s a huge part of what i love about wtnv.

this arc and janet specifically is so interesting to me because of exactly this. 

i think part of why we're so obsessed with lubelle as a villain is bc we KNOW she's the villain. we can see her disrupting the town and using her language and “logical explanations” to get rid of things she doesn't like- to get rid of that which makes her uncomfortable. its satisfying for us to hear cecil call for the town to shut her out! its satisfying to hear of the town storming her campus, confronting her and calling her out as being in the wrong! its satisfying to know that, by the end of this season, things will be resolved in some way that leaves us feeling hopeful. that things might look different, that dynamics might change and characters will have changed, but that there is some sort of resolution coming. 

it’s also heartbreaking (though very fun from strictly a storytelling perspective) to see that the efforts cecil and the town have made so far aren’t working. it’s heartbreaking to hear cecil be at such a loss as to what he can do, to try to avoid violence for carlos’ sake, to feel hopeless. to watch him put his trust and hope in someone who is promising freedom from janet's tyranny only for that to be shattered.

sometimes i wish i could go grab a pitchfork and storm on the people who are trying to explain away the existence of people i love. i would be lying if i said i didn’t sometimes feel at a loss as to what i can do- as to what authority figures i can trust, where i can put my hope. sometimes i want to yell on public radio for everyone to shut out the hateful, hurtful people in power. sometimes i feel paralyzed like i imagine carlos has in this arc. i don’t know that there will be a neat resolution to everything going on in the world right now, but i am trying to remember that there ARE people taking action. that there are people trying to make the world a better place, who want good for everyone around them. that there ARE people marching and yelling for change. that there IS beauty and awe and good and community no matter how bleak things feel. idk. i might be projecting too much here but also isn’t that what art and story is all about? just… i love this narrative bc its fun and exciting, but also bc it is such a brilliant mirror being held up to world rn. and now im gonna go back to hoping cecil is kidnapped and so so sad and scared and hoping that steve carlsburg will use his hope and love of his community and unique knowledge and perspective to save the day. or carlos or whatever. sorry im so insane ab this little podcast.

[luna-rainbow]

I feel to a degree that Sam and Bucky's attitudes towards John Walker in TFATWS was kinda...needlessly cruel. Like, they had problems with him even before Walker had done anything wrong, simply because he was wearing a Captain America uniform and was no Steve Rogers. I think this really showed in their fight with him at the start of episode 5, which honestly feels to me more like "Sam and Bucky gang up on and brutalize Walker while he's still going through the process of grieving his best friend who was just brutally murdered in front of him."

I have very little sympathy for Walker, because he reminds me keenly of the particular type of person (often white and male) who has been smooth sailing for all their life and gets their way by trampling over other people but has absolutely no self-awareness of this, attributes their own success not to systemic privilege tipped in their favour but rather believes it’s all from ‘individual hard work’, who then struggles because for once in their life things don’t go their way and their tantrum behaviour escalates until it ends in violence.

I know there are more sympathetic readings of his character (he has PTSD, was unsupported, didn’t get much help) but this is the archetype I saw and…to be honest, if I met this kind of person, I would give him very little patience too.

Also, I remember Walker’s introduction very differently. Sam donated the shield to the museum to lay Captain America to rest, and his wish was disrespected. You can argue that’s not entirely Walker’s fault but he’s also not innocent either, so Sam has plenty of reason to distrust him at the get-go. Walker then went on TV and says “I never met him (Steve), he feels like a brother,” which, aside from being a mockery of the friendship between Steve and Bucky, was a weird ingratiating line while disrespecting Steve’s wishes of handing the shield over to Sam (and thereby letting Sam decide what should happen to the shield). So Bucky, too, had plenty of reason to distrust Walker before they met.

The truck fight I’m putting down to shitty writing. You’re telling me two veterans who had fought super soldiers and aliens and everything in between couldn’t handle a bunch of kids until Walker arrived on the scene? I call writer bias, and I’ve talked extensively in the past about how Walker was the only character in that series given the protagonist treatment of agency and a complete character arc at the expense of our two eponymous protagonists, who were passive and whose character beats happened off screen.

Taking away the writer issues, Sam and Bucky were both pulling their punches because they realised they were up against kids. Walker pulled out a gun and shot one of them (can’t remember if the kid died or not). That’s a much better metaphor for police brutality than the traffic stop scene later, and gives more concrete reason for Sam and Bucky to distrust him.

The only thing mean from Sam/Bucky’s side in that conversation was Walker asking to work together and Bucky saying “Just cos you carry that shield, it doesn’t mean you’re Captain America.” Which, after all we’ve seen of him so far, is a pretty fair assessment.

As compared to all the awkwardly cocky stuff Walker says in return. “Yeah, I have (jumped on a grenade), it’s a thing I do with my helmet” which undermines what it says about Steve’s moral character by covering a grenade with his body. Are we forgetting the “That serum doesn’t exactly have a great track record. No offense”? I love the no offense, which is standard repertoire for entitled people to put the burden of offence in the listener’s court instead of apologising for the offense they’re causing. Are we forgetting the “uh no we didn’t track them we tracked you through Redwing” with a smug grin? Are we forgetting his deaf dismissal of Sam trying to rationalise with why a bunch of impoverished kids are successfully leading a revolution (god the way he just ignored Sam’s point is so close to how entitled white men in real life talks it makes my blood boil)? Are we forgetting the “It’d be a whole lot easier if I had Cap’s wingmen on my side”?

I don’t think Sam and Bucky were “needlessly” cruel. I think they had an understandable emotional reaction - during a period of emotional vulnerability for both of them - to someone they see doing their memory of Steve dirty, and an understandable escalation in their distrust by what Walker then showed of his convictions, attitudes, and intentions. From a writing point of view — yeah I do think Bucky’s disgust was more exaggerated than I personally would have written him, but as far as all the OOC shit Bucky has done in this show, being aggravated by Walker was the least of it.

And by episode 5??? By then Walker has said and done a whole bunch of deranged shit. Sam and Bucky were not “ganging up” on him. Are we forgetting that Sam asked nicely for him to hand himself in? And then Walker going full gollum-mode (“my precioussss”) because Sam mentions the shield once?? (But also yes I agree the writing was once again shitty and focused weirdly on retrieving the shield instead of, you know, the priority of apprehending Walker) And sorry, going back once again to the entitled white men trope, because that’s what Walker is — did Walker show any respect to Sam and Bucky for grieving over Steve? Then why should we expect people to afford him leniency in return? Not to mention that they did approach him kindly and say that he would likely be judged leniently because of Lemar’s death. And even as they’re trying to be kind to him, Walker snipes at Bucky “I’m not like you” (actually you’re not, you dipshit, because Bucky never killed anyone in spite or rage) and assumes the worst of Sam for asking for the shield.

Look, I am all for a balanced view on Walker, because he is a layered character who tries his best but was never good enough, and the sense of inferiority escalates his immature emotional response beyond control. But that’s because of his glaring, major, inexcusable character flaws that he only has himself to blame for. He’s basically Tony Stark who has been trained for violence through the military and doesn’t have the wealth or brain power to channel his anger anywhere else.

Not to mention that Sam and Bucky never sought him out even once, and he’s the one barging in on them multiple times despite them making their boundaries clear.

[nakianshuri]

I keep seeing well-meaning posts about wanting Steve and Jonathan to be friends, and I might have felt that way at the end of season 1. But since then it’s been a no for me.

I think Argyle is a great friend for Jonathan to have. However, Jonathan has only ever been interesting to me in his family relationships, which the show has neglected since that first season. Would have been interested to see his reaction to Bob’s death and confront his biases about people since he seemed to have dismissed Bob as being too normal or whatever in S2. He probably also resented him for dating Joyce and perhaps inserting himself in their family dynamics.

Would in theory be interesting to see his reaction to Jopper, which I assume would also be met with hostility for similar reasons, or how he interacted with El being around.

So there are interactions that I think could be enlightening to see that center Jonathan.

Jonathan and Steve, however, feels like it could be repetitive? Every season, Steve has to redeem himself to someone or show that he’s not at heart an asshole. It would have been great if in a very different season 2, Steve’s redemption arc started with Jonathan and if the show established some kind of basis for mutual respect and perhaps friendship between them that would have been an nice wrinkle to the love triangle at that point.

That’s not what happened, and instead we see Steve grow through Dustin and being the “babysitter,” and with Robin and learning to deal with rejection while becoming a good friend to her. We even seen this a little with Eddie, who explicitly says Steve’s a better guy than he thought, and with Steve learning to get along with Eddie after thinking he’s a freak. We’ve seen this arc 3 times in really compelling ways imo.

Some people say Stancy is character regression, which I disagree with because both characters were in a way reintroduced to each other after being apart and changing.

However exploring Steve and Jonathan after 4 seasons of no interaction feels like regression to me bc I don’t think Jonathan has changed, nor has his point of view of the world. It potentially leaves Steve in an atoning position we’ve already seen him in, and although he loves Nancy, he hasn’t exhibited any hostility toward Jonathan for season 2. So potentially any animosity that arises might be from Jonathan’s side, and I’m just not interested in that at this point. I’m not interested in him realizing Steve’s changed either because we’ve done that already three times already with other characters, too. So it’s St*nathan not Stancy to me that feels regressive.

I hope I’m wrong and there’ll actually be some great interactions between the two (bc the actors might have some great on screen chemistry) or that they mostly stay in their corners as usual and engage with other storylines.

[thestobingirlie]

I feel like you’re giving Steve (who I love, don’t get me wrong) a little too much credit here—

I don’t think Steve ever went out of his way to bully anyone, so I don’t think he ever bullied Robin or Eddie and only got an attitude with Jonathan after he took the pictures of him and Nancy.

But I think the argument that Steve would’ve stood up to Tommy and Carol and stopped them if they were bullying or just generally being dicks to other kids is a little overly optimistic. I think Steve wouldn’t have done anything— he wouldn’t have joined in the bullying but I don’t think he would’ve stopped them either unless they were going too far. I think his whole arc in season 1 is that he was a popular kid who went along with what everybody else did and what he was expected to do and it was because of Nancy that he finally said fuck these guys and dumped Tommy and Carol and went to go apologize to Jonathan.

I think “bullying” is only viewed in this fandom in black and whites when we are shown that Tommy and Carol were mean kids, they both tried to bully Nancy away from Steve, both made fun of Jonathan for being weird and the whole thing with his brother, and they were both kinda dicks to Barb. I don’t think this makes them evil characters but kids bully other kids, and bullying isn’t solely classified as beating up other kids and stuffing them into lockers.

I’m glad Steve had the arc he did but when people say he would NEVER stand by and let Tommy and Carol bully other kids when he has just takes away from Steve’s whole arc.

Now when people want to act like Steve could act like a bully after season 1, that’s where I have a problem. Because it was that whole arc in season 1 of realizing that Tommy and Carol are “both assholes” who don’t care about anyone but themselves, that brought Steve to become the characters he’s been since the end of season 1 forward.

let’s think about tommy and carol’s ‘worst’ behaviour:

tommy giving barb a wet willy — kind of behind steve’s back, who’s talking to nancy at the time and busy.

“it’s tuesday…” (carol and tommy mocking nancy about the party) — steve huffs out a laugh, and then goes on to try and reassure nancy.

the “jonathan killed his brother” joke — steve swats tommy and tells him to shut up.

tommy pretending not to know barb — steve tells him not to be an ass and to just answer the question.

carol and tommy sex noises — steve smirks, and kind of jokingly gestures for them to be quiet, but does nothing.

the camera — steve leads the charge (tommy and carol don’t actually do that much here, but i figured i should add it).

the graffiti/confrontation — steve actively goes along with it and helps.

carol calling nancy a slut — steve yells in her face, and tells her to watch her mouth.

(i don’t think i’ve left anything out, but obviously correct me if i’m wrong!!)

i do think steve usually goes along with those jokes a little more, and he’s trying to be on his best behaviour for nancy. but clearly he’s not afraid of standing up to them. he doesn’t dawdle about telling them to stop until nancy pushes him to do it. he just does it.

and more than that, tommy and carol seem to listen. they don’t fight back against steve until their big argument (and even then, tommy only really gets serious after steve shouts in carol’s face).

i think these scenes also give us the chance to see what the dynamic of the group is. which seems to be mainly bitchy jokes made out of earshot of the target of said jokes. and having seen the kind of jokes they make, i wouldn’t really say they regularly go “too far” or bully anyone.

like, as someone that got made fun of in school, i wouldn’t class what we see carol and tommy do on screen as bullying. they’re being twats, and making annoying jokes and loud sex noises. but bullying requires… like, effort. and i don’t think tommy and carol care about other people like that lmao. which is what steve says when he ditches them! that they don’t care about other people. that they’re content being judgmental assholes, but steve isn’t anymore.

steve doesn’t want to be surrounded by mean, petty people that bitch about everyone, and who he feels like he can’t be himself around. but i think most of that behaviour happened within their group, and not towards other people unless it’s a more extreme situation (e.g. confronting nancy about the ‘cheating’).

steve’s a very introspective character, and he has spoken about regretting high school, but those regrets were more that he wasn’t friends with whoever he wanted to be friends with because he was worried tommy would make fun of him, and not that he regrets watching bullying happen and doing nothing. which, by all accounts, steve would regret.

i think most of the groups worst behaviour was directed inwards. mean jokes shared between friends, making someone feel like a bit of an outsider because you’re cracking inside jokes, judging pretty much everyone else for bullshit reasons. the kind of stuff that made steve feel a bit shit every single day, but didn’t actually have that much of a ripple effect on the student body at large.

also, and i recognise this is just me being nitpicky, but i didn’t say that steve would stand up for all victims of bullying, just that i don’t think he’d want to be friends with people that horrifically bullied everyone.

[despapillon]

stupid how you managed to make a dick joke out of innocent shot. and hosegate oh no that is awful. Byler is not going to be in relationship. what show have you been watching certainly not Stranger Things more like Gayer Things. Duffer have had an emotional love declaration by Mike and you believe Byler? that is sad. it may not be romantic but to Duffers it is. same men that wrote in Steve talking about his breeding kink to Nancy and framed it as romantic. just because something is the better choice in your eyes does not mean that will happen. after events of show i can only see Mike and El get married. Duffers try to convince he is straight and they intend him to be but Mike reads as deep in closet. fans dw Will is going to get over Mike and find a bf that is give him happiness he deserves. but Mike? Mike will forever be in loveless marriage and he is never ever going to get over Will. in his thirties and beyond that he is going to suffer and not stop thinking about how everything would be different if he accepted his sexuality and chose Will not El. he is going to hate himself for making such a mistake

listennnnnnnnnn. ppl were talking about hosegate so i just made a reference to the rolled up painting shot. i wasnt the one that noticed it first. i only knew it was a thing because of Bylers discussing it. i had the pic saved, as i was preparing a post that i scrapped that was about Will and the allegations he had, including fake stuff spread around that S3 Will would have a p*rn magazine and the speculations that Will is going to sleep around with random men in S4 and my thoughts on this plus the sexualization dramas like Byler sex in the show, Byler kiss not being chaste, writing Byler smut, Mike supposedly checking Will out, hosegate and other phallic imagery. i decided against that and now i think that was a good choice because it would drive some wild.

i never truly meant the rolled up painting thing was intentional i was simply saying what was a regular shot became dirty to me thanks to Bylers influence. i’m sorry i didn’t mean to offend anyone. i still find it funny but i feel bad for making that post. i guess i should have kept it to myself. i had no idea it would come off this inappropiate. though the characters are only 15 (i think) so that is on me for not caring how uncomfortable it could make others.

now onto the rest of your ask. i don’t know if Byler is going to be together. i don’t. i ship it because i like it. when we get the next season we will see. i willingly choose to spend my time on discussing Byler knowing i’m not really that confident in it. nobody is forcing me to do this. i know we may get queerbaited. but i don’t care.

there is that section of Bylers that got utterly destroyed by vol 2 and either converted to M!leven and now mock us for still shipping Byler (there must be a name for that phenomenon because how) or are bitter and lashing out at Duffers because they lost their faith and now Byler bad. i assume you are the second. i hope you are proven wrong because you seem heated about the topic. to the point you sent me an ask about it.

Duffers did make a lot of writing mistakes and choices i disagree with. whether Byler happens or not i do plan on discussing what i had a problem with after watching s5 because i need to see how they will handle the characters’ arcs to make a post as there could be surprises awaiting us. and talk about how i’d handle certain plotlines as a person that can’t write anything coherent.

keep in mind that Montauk, the original ST, drew inspo from It, and if there was a potential season 2 to Montauk, they wanted to straight up go the It route by having the characters grown up and some leave the town then come back when it all gets fucked up again and join forces for the second time.. they do also mention It, and Stephen King as inspiration. you can see it in the current series too. Willelmike is literally a ripoff of the love triangle between Ben, Bev and Bill. Ben’s poem and Will’s painting.. it’s so blatant. and those that watched the movies know how said love triangle ends.

Gayer Things is a great series that i suggest you need to have more faith in.

[incorrectklavekatz]

klave or wesper and what do you like most about both ships?

For reference I’m going to be talking about the show versions of both of them because Dave did not exist in the comics!! (Klaus instead opened a strip club in Vietnam got married and had a child but that’s a rant for a different ask.)

I honestly don’t think I could choose between both of them, I think wesper is more well written, because obviously Dave only gets at tops a couple minutes of screen time, and Klaus’s Dave only gets around two minutes, but I love the trope of ‘nobody has truly loved all of me until you’, and the angst that comes with the fact that Klaus had to go all the way back to the Vietnam war just to be loved truly and completely for himself. The way their so gentle with each other in the middle of a war and how they look at each other like nothing else matters and klaus begging when Dave gets shot and ah- I love them too much, truly, but Steve black did them dirty.

Wesper on the other hand I think is written much better, and I like the contrast in the show of just being able to have a happy queer ship. Between two men who have no shame about their sexuality’s or relationship, don’t get me wrong, I love a good coming out story and learning to love yourself, but I like that their trope is more about finding themselves and helping each other rather than finding themselves with each other, and they get to have their own individual character arcs and stories, while Dave only gets small details about his life thrown about in seasons one and two, then is forgotten about in season three.

Overall two of my favourite ships, six of crows is my current fixation so wesper is currently more at the forefront of my mind but overall they both take first place in my favourite ships!

Thank you for the ask!! <333

[baynton]

tagged by @blackbeardsblanketfort​ - thank you 🥰

8 shows to get to know me better

1. bbc ghosts

this is where the mat obsession started. it actually started as a ben/patcap obsession, funnily enough, but within mere weeks of being back on tumblr i had spiralled into mat insanity, never to return. for real though, this show is so good. i love it so much. i love all the characters. patcap is real and i love it. i don’t really need to say anymore about it since i think everyone who follows me here has at least SEEN ghosts. 

2. spy (2011)

spy is so important to me. it gave me chris pitt-goddard. he is me, i am him. i love him more than i love life itself. one of the best mat characters to ever exist. thomas thorne could never. the rest of the show is fine, the other characters are alright (i am soft on tim though) but chris MAKES the show. the things he comes out with are iconic. plus. without chris, the iconic chris x joe ship would have never been born (which would have been an absolute TRAGEDY) 

3. reluctant persuaders

because this is about shows rather than specifically television shows i am including reluctant persuaders, hit bbc radio show. it’s funny, it’s iconic, all the characters are phenomenal. even if mat wasn’t in it, i would still love it. but he is, and he plays joe starling, the soggiest wettest most pathetic mat character to ever exist. my mans is insulted by everyone every episode. they all comment on how pathetic he is all the time. how sad and lonely he is. how he looks about 10 years older than he actually is. it’s wonderful. and, of course, without joe, the iconic chris x joe ship would have never been born. tragic. but it’s ok because they’re here and i was here to coin the ship so we can all heave a sigh of relief. 

4. you me and the apocalypse 

okay, you might be sensing a theme here. and yes, okay, the theme is that they are all mat shows (i WILL be including at least one non-mat show though, never fear). but this one gave us two PHENOMENAL mats. the twins. THE twins. of all time. cersei and jaime were usurped by ariel and jamie (idk why iconic twins always have a jamie but it’s NOTED). this show is also just objectively brilliant. it’s not like spy where it would suck without the mat character. this show is just great. 

5. the wrong mans

i can’t talk about mat shows without THIS one. because mat not only wrote and starred in this beautiful wonderful show, it’s also iconic for the soppiest wettest mat character we get to see on tv. (the only one who holds a candle here is william from quacks but.. i think sammy takes the cake). he’s a cute tiny baby and i love him dearly.

6. inside no.9

okay, so this one genuinely doesn’t count as a mat show, but mat is very beautiful in the few minutes he has in that one episode and so, here u go, mat gif. i loved this show long before i descended into mat madness, and for good reason! it’s brilliant, inspired, genuinely incredible. and watching it again with @the-20th-century-girl has been an absolute joy. looking at reece with her (and yes, okay, SOMETIMES i look at steve and his lovely legs too) is always a good time. i love almost all the episodes. anthology series are fucking fantastic but this one takes the cake. i love black mirror, but black mirror wishes it was in9. 

7. ted lasso

this show is absolutely fantastic and i went absoltuely insane watching it over the space of about 5 days. i was then left with the last 4 or so episodes to watch as they came out, which was brilliant. i got to experience the end with everyone else, lol. but seriously, this show has some fantastic characters and storylines and character GROWTH. jamie tartt at the start of s1 vs jamie tartt by the end of s3 is just. INCREDIBLE. the whole nate the great arc. like holy shit this show went HARD and it paid off.

8. bbc merlin

going RIGHT back to my roots with this one. while glee got me onto tumblr and twitter back in the day, it was merlin that got me INVOLVED in fandom. i learnt to gif because of this show, i went to my first fandom event because of this show (bradley and tom’s football game), i made my first group of fandom friends because of this show. it’s still one i go back to and rewatch every now and then. sometimes i still read merthur fic when i think about a Specific Fic i remember i used to love. i will always have a special place in my heart for this show fr.

right! there we go, that’s it! tagging: @matbaynton, @toomanyfandomsneverenoughtime, @the-illuminated-one​, @the-20th-century-girl​ and @catboyrightsdefender​ but no pressure if you don’t want to 🫡

[a-strange-inkling]

im sure its been theorized before but hear me out. Im high and this idea is ENTIRELY MY OWN. copyright 2023.

ok so what if this whole thing is a dream or manifested massive delusion driven dnd game for will. its been more or less confirmed that the next season is centered on will’s character and it makes sense that the show will start and end with him. Firstly it seems unsatisfying narratively if Will would have anything less than a villain/hero arc. Secondly he is shown driving the story at the start of every season by entering a fantasy scape. And, given that his primary insecurity is being left, it makes sense that every season resulted in reunions and drawing all the story lines together?

like a master dnd dm would? Will/Mind Flayer has been building quests and storylines this entire time?

do you see what im getting at? master of puppets is will!! (or will by proxy, not sure yet but still)

anyway, do you know any more about the will theory? would love to hear your predictions about s4!

Okay…

Mom?

Is that you? What are you doing on Tumblr?? Please don’t read my ao3 😭

No, I kid!

My mom and I spend many of our morning coffee chats theorizing Season Five and she’s convinced it’s all a dnd campaign on Will’s end too!!! And she’s brought up all of these points and more, which is pretty cool, as she doesn’t even have any online presence (or does she?? 👀). But when I explained the lyrics to Master of Puppets and the Mind Flayer, she said what if the master isn’t Vecna?

What if it’s Will, what if it’s all Will?

She’s also pointed out that Will hasn’t had that much agency in the series. Always a victim, or an observer, a watcher. In Season Five will he finally become a player/hero? Or a villain? Is this what it’s all been leading up to?

She even thinks that they’ve pulled a HIMYM and have already filmed the ending back when they actors were kids. It will end on all them playing in Mike’s basement.

This is such a wild theory and I’m always trying to disprove it lol because I don’t think the Duffers have the foresight or the planning skills for that (bless their hearts) and I’m just like what is Will on if he conjured all this up on his own? Won’t this take away from the story as a whole to make it all just a campaign? What about El? What about all the character growth of characters like Hopper and Steve?

But she’s so convinced that she’s slowly convincing me too 😂

This ask made my whole day!! She’s going to be so validated when I tell her this lmao

Oh, Season Five… Season Five

I don’t have a lot of theories or even desires myself… Not to be a stick in the mud, but I have to be honest, I haven’t really been invested in the plot of Stranger Things like I used to after watching Season Three. In comparison to where we started, I think the writing and the characters in general has progressively weakened over the seasons (there’s been exceptions, of course!)

If not for Joe, Gwen, Mason and Jamie (all the new comers) putting THEIR FUCKING ALL into their SIDE ROLES/VILLAIN ROLE I probably wouldn’t have enjoyed Season Four much at all. I’ve made the joke about myself that Stranger Things has become Eddie and Chrissy with some other people around for me lmao and sadly it’s not too far from the truth. And then they killed them off! 😭 The fresh faces and incredible chemistry they desperately needed! They really shot themselves in the foot. We were so robbed!

As for the main cast (still incredibly talented and wonderful, don’t get me wrong) they just sort of feel tired in their roles despite their best efforts, a lot of that chemistry in the beginning sort of fizzing out with all the same issues reoccurring when they should have been resolved by now. I do have to give props to Sadie and Caleb this season, out of the main cast they really shined. But, lot’s of the things I cared about I just don’t anymore. Like the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan storyline. Used to be invested. Don’t care at all. Even Jopper finally getting together really didn’t impact me. And they were my first otp in this show!! I’ve been waiting!

So, while I still love discussing it and hearing theories, I don’t expect much other than a pretty straight forward happy ending maybe with a few character deaths (Steve… Jonathan… be safe out there boys). Ooo wait a Jonathan death would really trigger a Will villain arc and maybe be the gravity this show needs.

I do see Will on the precipice of a hero/villain journey, dark side light side stuff, ultimately choosing hero and maybe saving El for a change.

I’m going to tell my mom about the Jonathan death theory this morning when we get coffee though!

I’m also in the minority here, but I don’t want Eddie back (unless Chrissy gets to too 😤. Let him rest. I think anything outside of a flashback or a Vecna vision would be bad for the narrative as a whole. Could also ruin his character if they aren’t careful. But I would fucking love a flashback of Eddie and Chrissy at Hawkins High or something like that. Oh yes please!!

Overall, I think the main cast really need to have the focus put on them to wrap this up neatly. (However, Kas!Eddie rising from out of the Upside Down as an undead vampire/zombie to a raging metal soundtrack would be so sick… bad writing… but very, very sick lol)

Okay, wait though… speaking of screw it all, let’s go insane writing, may I tell you the stupid thing what I want so badly?? I want a Ted Wheeler redemption arc. I’m dead serious! I want him to save the day like a badass for NO REASON or build up. I want everyone to be in the heat of battle and the world going to hell in a hand basket and I want Dustin (it has to be Dustin) to be surrounded by Demogorgons or whatever, about to die and then, out of nowhere, Ted revs in with his fucking station wagon and runs them all over, skidding to a stop (Holly is in the back seat in her booster). Dustin dazed and confused stares up at him with his mouth agape as Mr. Wheeler opens the passenger door and just says ‘Get in.’

Sorry, this came out long winded and all over the place lmao! I’m so sleep deprived presently!

I’m still going to watch Season Five, because I have to see where they end it after all these years!! Just not on the edge of my seat about it.

But, who knows maybe Season Five will grab us all by throat and surprise us (in a good way)!

[erin-bo-berin]

I’m not a big Stancy shipper either, but I think it really hurt Nancy’s feelings that Jonathan wasn’t there with her, but steve was. Steve, a guy who literally has no connection to the situation besides caring about his friends and being there for them. But Jonathan, her boyfriend of like 2 1/2 years wasn’t. When he’s fully involved. I really think it broke her heart (since Jonathan never even reached out and didn’t even know the ENTIRE time they were dealing with the upside down) at first but Steve helped her through it unintentionally.

I dont think she wants a big family or any of that, and Steve doesn’t have big aspirations for a career like she does. I don’t think they’d work out but I do think if they got back together they would be exactly like their parents reversed. Example: Nancy would be her dad making the money and supporting Steve and the kids. Steve would be his mom following her on business trips, and hoping she doesn’t cheat. I don’t like it but it’s kind of realistic.

Yes exactly! I hated that for her when he didn’t show up and clearly Jonathan was dealing with the college problem and that was creating distance between them. I also think the move and missing her contributed to a lot of why he decided to check out and stay high most of the time 😕

Although with season 5 saying that everyone will be back in Hawkins, plus with the end of the world a la Vecna, I’d think the college thing wouldn’t be such a problem between them. It does make me a bit nervous though with the time jump, does Jancy make it and they’re still together? Will it be Stancy together again? Or maybe even Nancy single? I love all three of the characters individually but I really hope they don’t have Nancy going back and forth between them. Cause if they pull the Stancy then Jancy thing again like that happened in season 1 that’s just so old. At this point, either keep her with Jonathan or let her be single. I know in reality people are messy and things can get messy, but our girl Nancy deserves better than that kind of character arc lol

I agree though. If her and Steve were to end up back together it really would be like her parents. It would be sad though too because as she told Jonathan in season 1 she didn’t think her parents ever loved one another, which may have been true or it could’ve been they loved one another once and just grew apart and became too different but stayed together for the sake of their family. I could definitely see that happening with a future Stancy which would be heartbreaking. Steve is loyal and probably will always love her cause I get the feeling she was his true first love. But they both deserve better too. Steve deserves someone who could actually love him endlessly back and have and WANT the family he wants with him. Nancy deserves to have an education and career and whatever kind of family she wants. Oddly enough, I always though if Jancy was endgame and they married, I could see them being a couple to a) not have many kids and b) have them a lot later in their marriage. Obviously there’s no wrong way to have a family, but I imagine there wouldn’t be any potential kids on the way until after Nancy was in a stable journalism job.