#doing things bc you believe you are the moral authority without thinking through the actual morality

[thewingedwolf]

some parallels between the prequel trilogy and the acolyte

[themyscirah]

Started thinking about the Amanda Waller + Ben Turner relationship again.... fuck, I'm gonna need a minute

[mademoiselle-cookie]

@supremechancellorrex So I'm only responding bc you have the delicacy of tagging this as 'pro-jedi'. Since you give me the stick to beat you with, I will comply.

First, Slick

Slick is a clone who sold information to the enemy for money, which led to the death of his own brothers. He blew up the armory, increasing the future death toll as the clones wouldn't have anything to defend themselves with. He also tried to blame another of his brothers and kill Cody and Rex when he was discovered.

To put it simply, he's a villain.

It's not complicated. It's a children's show. If a character commits bad deeds, he is a villain. So you shouldn't foolishly believe what he says. It's a narrative rule. Every child knows that.

If Slick blames the Jedi, it's to justify what he did, like when Anakin says the Jedi are evil after slaughtering them, including children. If the show wanted to tell us that he was right, he would not have put this episode in the 1st season, it would have waited for arcs like Umbara, to show that, indeed, the clones suffer in the presence of the Jedi. It also wouldn't mention that Slick received any money. And his victims would not have been only HIS BROTHERS, the same ones whose cause he claims to defend.

One is defined by his actions, not his words. Slick did shit for his brothers.

Take a look at how the rest of the clones think of the Jedi as a whole.

And it's just the obvious. I'm not quoting all the times we see the clones and the Jedi being friends, trusting each other, or saving each other. But here a few links : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. (you seem to understand that Jedi are good with them but a reminder is clearly necessary)

Also, the Jedi don't own the clones.

Clones are property of the Republic. Not the Jedi.

Only the Senate and the Supreme Chancellor have a say in the clones fate. You can't be a slavers if you don't have slaves.

Yes, the Jedi were their Generals. But it has nothing to do with that. The Jedi entered the war because the Separatists were over-armed, guided by a Sith (natural enemy of the Jedi who can only be stopped by them, and a former member of the Order), and very determined to massacre and dominate the universe.

The Jedi cannot but go to war. Their inaction would kill too many people.

"It’s a tough call. It’s one of the conundrums of which there’s a bunch of in my movies. You have to think it through. Are they going to stick with their moral rules and all be killed, which makes it irrelevant, or do they help save the Republic?" George Lucas, The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020

And you know who would have died in greater numbers without the Jedi? The clones.

They wouldn't have been led by compassionate leaders, but by Admirals like Tarkin. They wouldn't have competent and experienced fighters with magical powers with them on the battlefield. Or they simply wouldn't have kind companions who push them to think by themself (Nala Se: "I'm afraid the Jedi have inspired creative thinking in some of the clones." (ep3 s6)).

Again, clones are not the Jedi's slaves. (so we must also forget this idea of "nice masters")

In fact, the Jedi are the people who fight the most against slavery in SW.

There's a whole arc about an empire of slavers who hate the Jedi for destroying their trade, and who started to re-emerge BECAUSE the Jedi were too busy with the war.

Darts D'Nar: "For thousands of years, Zygerria supplied slave labor to the galaxy. We prospered. Our customers prospered. Then the Jedi came." (ep11 s4)

But why people who fight slavery don't say a thing about the clones situation?

Because the writing of the show sucks.

Narratively, clones aren't slaves.

They're only a drafted army (well, to be fair, draft is actually close to slavery if you look closely, which is what the clone situation criticizes, but the authors didn't realize how this one isn't just a draft).

And though it sucks, the Jedi can't say anything because they too are drafted.

"The Jedi weren't meant to fight wars. That's the gig issue in the prequels. They got drafted into service, which is exactly what Palpatine wanted" George Lucas, An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode 1, 2019

If the show meant that the clones were slaves, it wouldn't have had only one person to say it (someone who's an unreliable narrator) but by people we trusted like Rex or Cody. It would have shown Padmé, who openly despises slavery, speaking out against their plight, especially when fighting against buying more clones in one episode (while unlike the Jedi, SHE has the power to fix their situation). It would have been said during the Umbara arc or the Zygerrian arc where Rex, a clone, is enslaved. It would have Cut Lawquane, a deserter (not an escapee, a deserter) said he had enough of their slavery, or he would have critised the Jedi since they're slavers right? But no. Not a world against them. Only against the Republic.

(remember when I said SW criticizes draft?)

So yeah, the clones situation sucks, but even if the Jedi were fully aware of that, they couldn't have done anything. They didn't even have political powers. They can't stop themself for being drafted. They're only servants of the Republic that even nice Senators like Riyo Chuchi think she can order around (with a literal Council Member, no less). The Chancellor was even able to force them to stop looking for a Sith Lord, a massive danger for the Republic and their natural ennemies.

What make you refuse to help the clones when they're the only who did? Padmé and Bail don't do anything when it's their role to do so, and we know they're nice people. Slavery is prohibited in the Republic, someone (who's canonically not a liar and a traitor) should have said something in this regard. The Senate shouldn't even be able to buy clones, it's against their laws.

It's sad to say but the authors don't care about the clones. They're mostly canon folder meant to die in number because it's a show about a war.

You talk about challenging its leaders.

Do you remember when Qui-Gon, a respected Jedi Master, argued against the Council? When a newly knighted Jedi threatened the Grandmaster of the Order to leave if he didn't get what he wanted? When he argues against the mission the Council has entrusted to his Padawan? All the times Anakin disobeyed an order and it was either ignored or complimented? When the Younglings in the Gathering arc disobeyed Obi-Wan direct order and he complimented them for that?

Or are you saying that along the lines of the Jedi versus the Senate?

Don't you remember when Obi-Wan was suspicious of Padmé because she was a politician? And that he followed with a criticism of the Chancellor of the Republic? When the Council was fighting against their draft before they knew about Dooku? When Obi-Wan refused to obey Riyo's orders? When Mace was ready to fuck a political treaty to save an innocent animal? When the Jedi were thinking of overthrowing the Supreme Chancellor even before they knew he was a Sith Lord? When they sent Anakin as a spy against him? When the Jedi were the only ones to actually do anything against him?

About the Citadel arc.

It's rather telling that you think that a compassionate Jedi is sassing someone death instead of just giving the spectators an information (IT'S A KID SHOW). It's an extremely dangerous mission and they HAD to finish it, they don't have time to mourn or slow down for any reason (including searching for clone corpses). But even if they didn't have that time, the show take a few moments to show us Obi-Wan's sad face when someone died. So no, he won't make a joke for something like that.

Out-of-universe, the reason as to why Piell has a funeral is bc he is a character who has appeared several times in the movies and a Jedi, which makes him narratively more important than the clones (for the authors, I specify). So he MUST leave with more ceremony.

In-universe, if Piell was able to have one, it was because they had the time and opportunity. In his case, the group wasn't actively being chased and they had lava just next to them. Let's remember though that even here, Obi-Wan reminds during the funeral that they need to be quick, which he does all the time in the arc, he makes no exception with Piell.

You mention Pong Krell, but you don't think he lied to the other Jedi about the reasons behing his casualty number? They don't stalk or monitor their people, they can't control everything they do. Krell was raised with them as a family member, of course they trusted him. It's his fault for betraying their trust, not the Jedi's for being betrayed.

During the Wrong Jedi arc, the Council didn't trust Ahsoka BECAUSE of Pong Krell, they learn their lesson.

Jedi don't have political power BY CHOICE.

First, because it's not their role, it's that of the Senators. And that of the citizens is to hold them accountable. Jedi have to stay neutral to be efficient diplomats et negociators. A community of 10 000 persons, including children, don't have to do everything to make the Republic work (they are a very small minority on Coruscant, so on the scale of the universe…). Do you expect them to be judge, jury and executioner? It's the first step towards tyranny.

Second, do YOU want powerful wizards who can mind trick people in charge of governements and laws? Wouldn't you be afraid that they would go too far or that they would use their powers for selfish ends? Because it's a perfectly normal reaction, and something that can indeed happen. Too much power can corrupt someone, so not having political power when you already have magic power is a good idea.

But even in this case, the Jedi were the only to do anything about the state of the Republic (the Delegation of 2000, which was erased of ROTS, was only thinking of doing something).

It's telling you use the words of someone who want to slaughter the Jedi. You didn't think for a second that he wasn't a reliable source of information about them? Really? How obvious does a kid show have to be for you to notice its message? THE BAD GUYS LIE. It's a trope in fiction. You have to be very careful with the words of a villain, ESPECIALLY when he seeks to criticize the good guys, who they want to kill I remind.

You're visibly the kind of people who will believe blindly the nazis lies about the Jews (and do you know the Jedi were inspired by Jews and the Sith by nazis? So don't give me the "exaggerated comparison" excuse)

But if you want to play this game, in TPM (the "golden age" of the Jedi according to Lucas, so an example of how they act in usual situations), the Chancellor go seek their help IN SECRET, because the Senate is useless. They didn't follow the Senate's orders. Because the Senate refused to act. So they would have never asked the Jedi to intervene. And when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan came back with Queen Amidala, no one cares that they did something without their approval. And it was the Council alone that sent the two Jedi back to protect Padmé after the Senate proved to be useless again.

(Please don't use the excuse of "but the Chancellor told them to intervene". This is a crisis on an intergalactic level, the Jedi cannot intervene at will. They must be sure to be useful otherwise they will create even more problems. The galaxy was lucky at this time that the Chancellor was competent)

I would also like to note the irony of Dooku, apprentice of Sidious, who complains of a corrupt Senate, while he knows perfectly well that his Master greatly worsens the situation.

And how much the Jedi could have fight for the clones when they were DYING IN WAR? They don't have time to think, that's why it takes them so much time to investigate the clones' origin. It's easy to say they should have done better when you're a spectator well settled in your seat while they're constantly busy to do something that's the complete opposite of their values and they can literally feel their family being killed. And did you forget the anti-Jedi campaign? The Senate and the citizens were more and more suspicious and aggressive against them, they had even less power than before the war.

(And if there were clones in the Temple, it's maybe because the Jedi who held these positions went to war or are dead?)

As tragic as it was, the clones' situation was very far from being the Jedi's priority.

You really used the Wrong Jedi arc.

This arc is funny because it doesn't criticize the Jedi but Ahsoka. Ahsoka who was completely rulled by her emotions and refused to trust the Council for no reason, when they never give her a reason to do so before. And SHE gave them plenty of reasons to not trust her.

But let's look at the situation from the Council's point of view. One of yours is accused:

of strangling someone to death, with video as evidence,

of running away from her cell (which she did),

of having killed the guards with her lightsabers when she is the only person in the building who knows how to use this weapon and that she has the said weapons in her hands (weapons which were confiscated from her),

of running away (which she did)

of allying with a known Sith/Separatist (which she did)

of attacking clones (which she did)

of causing the explosion at your home, which killed civilians and clones, because she was found on the place where the nanobombs, which were used during the attack, were.

And it's against the backdrop of Dooku and Pong Krell, respected Jedi who have betrayed the Order and fallen to the Dark Side. Not to mention that her Master offered her to come back and let you help her (because it's your role), which she refused.

What would you think?

(And the Council was right. There was a Padawan who went to the dark side and who orchestrated the Temple bombing, strangled Letta to death, and killed clones.)

And it's wrong to say that they threw her under the bus. During the pursuit after her escape, the Council allowed Anakin, her Master, to be part of the team to capture her, they try to fight against the Senate to keep Ahsoka (without success admittedly, but they tried several times, while they have very little screen time), they take care of finding a defense for Ahsoka, they let Anakin continue the investigations*, etc...

*They could have forbidden him but they didn't (and him not being a member of the Council, he could do whatever he wanted). It's not even a matter of not knowing since Ahsoka has publicly confessed that her Master continued the investigation (and you'd have to be a moron to think he wouldn't).

What could they have done anyway? Ahsoka's case was not just about the Jedi but about the Republic itself. Because she was accused of HIGH TREASON and killing Republic citizens/properties, and there are people out there angry enough to blow up their house. And that's not counting the fact that the war didn't end just for Ahsoka's trial, the Council Members are still War Generals and some aren't even here because of that.

It would be showing enormous favoritism to risk the Temple and all the Jedi (and by extension the war effort) just for ONE person, who has chosen not to trust them anyway. (And isn't that the definition of attachment?)

The Jedi didn't have time to do their own trial (which would have had no value in the eyes of the Republic since they wouldn't have been judged impartial), so in a hurry, they took the only logical, legal decision that causes the least damage to the greatest number.

What Ventress said was : "My master abandoned me and that's exactly what you did to her. You and your precious Jedi Order."

In other words, she's PROJECTING!

Her situation has nothing to do with Ahsoka's. Dooku actively tried to kill her for no (legitimate) reason, when Ahsoka was accused of terrorism and the Jedi did try to help her. What do she think Anakin was trying to do by interrogating her? The main person she's accusing is innocent, so the rest of her accusation is worthless too.

This dialogue is there to tap into Anakin's insecurities, not to criticize him and the Order.

And again, Ventress is not a reliable narrator.

When did the Jedi are ever seen enforcing laws exactly?

I return to this example but we see not only a Member of the Council but the Head of the Council prioritizing the life of the Zillo Beast over signing a treaty. During a war.

Woah, they really lost their way and let themself be corrupted.

There is also the example of Satine who fights against the Senate for NOT having the presence of the Republic on her planet and Obi-Wan, Member of the Council, helps her. He think neutrality is not a good choice (he's right) but he respects her and Mandalore's decision. Even if it's against the Senate's desire.

"inevitably screwed over"

You mean when they were genocided for the crime of existing?

Because it's that, pratically all the Jedi were killed, including the elderly, non-combatants and children. Their culture were erased, their home desacralized, their memories tarnished and their survivors hunted and if captured, tortured either to death or into brainwashing to hunt down their own family.

No one deserves that and no one is responsible of that.

The reason Sidious wanted to get rid of the Jedi is because they are NOT complacent. That's the whole point.

The "fall" of the Jedi was a genocide. It's absolutely disguting to place the blame on them.

They see that Palpatine was shady, even before the war (cf Obi-Wan), but there is little a small community without political power can do.

The Jedi did protested against their draft, they didn't want to bring their personal matters to the Chancellor but it's Anakin who argued to do so, Mace did fight for saving the Zillo Beast and was openly against bringing it on Coruscant... Even in relation to Sidious, Obi-Wan found the clones and Geonosis sooner than expected, the Jedi were able to recover the children before Sidious experimented on them…

And in the end, they did act directly against Palpatine. So what's the problem? Did you see the movies?

You acknowledge that the Jedi had no choice but you also say that they are making the worst possible decision. How?

"Cool motive, still slavery" is not an argument. It wasn't a motive. They simply don't have a choice. Letting the Republic and the clones be killed by droids is not a choice. Is it ethically worse to have a drafted (or slave) army or to let the Separatist slaughter, enslave and destroy every planets (even neutral) they encountered?

You think doing discreet resistance would have been efficient, really? When the Senate never listens to them and they are extremely busy with the war? And again, for it to work, it needs the authors, LucasFilm, to aknowledge the clones as slaves. But no one, not George Lucas, not Dave Filoni, not Pablo Hidalgo, no one ever said anything along these lines.

The Jedi are the good guys

That's how they were created, the way the light side of the Force works. They can't be corrupted otherwise they would have fallen to the Dark Side. They're the kind monks whose main value is compassion and who spend their time trying to save people. That's why their genocide is unilaterally a bad thing and announces the beginning of terror and dark times. That's why Anakin becoming again a Jedi in Return of the JEDI is a good thing.

There was a anti-Senate sentiment (not anti-Republic, because the very principle of the Republic is a good idea and worked for 1000 years before the arrival of the Siths) since before the war. But they know that a mutiny against the Senate would have created more problems than it would have solved, until it was the only option. Jedi think before they act and prioritize the good of the greatest number. That's why they helped neutral and even Separatist planets when they can, without the permission of the Senate.

The citizens of the Republic felt abandonned by the Jedi because they were busy dying in a war to protect them. Don't forget they were feed anti-Jedi propaganda during all this time.

The PT wasn't about how the Jedi were corrupted which cause their genocide (it's the dumbest thing I ever read), but how Anakin and the Republic allowed themselves to be corrupted and become responsible for the massacre of a group of innocent people, either directly or by complicity. You complain over and over that the Jedi said nothing in accepting a clone army, but where is that verve for the people of the Republic? They had the power to say something and they weren't busy by fighting in a war, they could have done something, at least protest. Of course they didn't, since the army was originally supposed to be made up of citizens, and they're all too happy not to die. They prefer to complain about those who did die for them.

In the end

I understand feeling sad at the horror that happened to the Jedi and wanting to find escapes. I understand (no) wanting to blame the victims to alleviate the tragedy. But the least you can do is to leave the pro-jedi fans alone instead of pissing them off with bullshit that a 5 year old can debunk.

Leave us alone.

I hear a lot of anti-Jedi and pro-Jedi going back and forth on this platform, but I wonder if we're only dealing in absolutes. That's it, everyone on tumblr is a Sith. Confirmed.

But, seriously (I was serious), are the Jedi good? Are they evil? Are they somewhere inbetween? And what is the system they support? Are they being their 'best selves' by the twilight years of the Republic? Am I a jerk? Are they jerks? Are you a jerk? Well... let's look at both sides and canon as it is, and see where it goes.

Should we ignore the problems and implications?

Dogma: "No! We have orders! We have to go through with this!"

First things first, let's start with negativity, because that's life possibly. There are a number of criticisms which are levelled against the Jedi in the canon. The Star Wars writers didn't always just put scenes and lines in for fun.

Slick: "It's the Jedi who keep my brothers enslaved. We serve at your whim. We do your bidding. I just wanted something more."

The Jedi are accused of slavery in Star Wars: The Clone Wars, which was created by George Lucas as Executive Producer, along with Dave Filoni and a whole host of writers working in collaboration. When Slick accuses the Jedi of being his and other clones' slave masters, it is never refuted by any of the characters, even Obi-Wan and Anakin who he is speaking to. It's never refused by the narrative at all.

Canonically, the Jedi as citizens and their military generals act as the clones superiors and also masters by proxy in the command chain. Slick's accusation is that the Jedi "keep [his] brothers" enslaved, not that they even necessarily enslaved them in the first place. He is indicating that the Jedi have power and agency, which they do as natborn citizens, but they don't direct it for justice and meaningful change in regards to clone rights.

Satine Kryze: "I remember a time when Jedi were not Generals, but peacekeepers."

Now, people have argued that the Jedi do help the clones and they are "in charge of [the clones] care", as Master Shaak Ti says during a continuing arguement where her and Nala Se debated on who Tup, Fives and clones in general belonged to as "property". The Jedi could think think themselves better caretakers of the clones troopers than natborn officers like Tarkin, although this verges on character speculation. Canonically, we do see evidence of care, such as Shaak Ti advocating for Domino Squad and calling them "living beings" that didn't deserve to be "cast aside", Mace and Plo Koon and other Jedi do show concern for their men's lives.

But, arguably it doesn't account for much when the Jedi are still working in the framework and structures of slavery instead of protesting it. Being kind to clones doesn't mean much when you prop up the meat-grinder of a system that uses them as cannon fodder.

This is exemplified in the show itself.

Ahsoka: "It's every citizen's duty to challenge their leaders, to keep them honest, and hold them accountable if they're not.”

Unjust actors and systems are to be challenged. The Jedi being nice isn't an absolution for their participation in this system, just as a slave master or a deputy slave master being nice in any context doesn't change the fact that they are still in command of slaves getting thrown into the meat grinder every day. If you support an unjust system, you bear responsibility.

And, moreover, despite moments of compassion from Jedi, for people who value life, the Jedi as an organisation still show a concerning ease with clone death as the war progresses. The Citadel Arc is a great example of this. As Clone Trooper Charger falls to his death and collides with a shock mine, Obi-Wan sasses "Well, they know we're here now" as the other clones still are reaching out in horror. Every time a clone dies on that mission, they leave them behind, even Echo (who turns out to still be alive and is captured by the enemy and tortured). However, despite the urgency of the mission, when Jedi Master Even Piell dies, the Jedi pause the mission to give him a funeral and burial even though the enemy is closing in. If there was ever a message that the Jedi value their slave soldiers' lives less, this is it.

Further evidence includes the fact that Jedi Master Pong Krell's casualty numbers were well-known in the military, to point Torrent Company were openly debating them, and yet no other Jedi General had felt the need to propose a military investigation. Additionally, when the Jedi were fed the cover story the inhibitor chips in their men's brain were just designed to make them less aggressive and more docile, there is no evidence they protested this mental violation. Another neglect in a series of many. Taking this into regard, I think the unfortunate implications are clear.

Perhaps the Jedi should find better use for their mind tricks and lightsabers than cutting up droids and planetary militias all while propping up an unjust regime?

Master enablers

Jedi Master Dooku: "The Jedi blindly serve a corrupt Senate that fails the Republic it represents."

Canonically, the Jedi are deeply flawed as an organisation. They are politically centrist in a way that does not benefit either themselves or the Republic in end, shown to be enablers that uphold the system and law as it is, regardless of how unjust.

How can the Jedi have the high ground when they appease a Senate that supports slavery regardless of how the writers try to downplay it? How can they be morally righteous when they bow down, without much resistance if at all, to such system that uses slave soldiers? Clones die under Jedi command, they work in the Jedi Temple as both soldiers and technicians. The Jedi claim they just can't get involved in changing the system because it's beyond their mandate when what's on their doorstep, what's in their temple, is slavery, slavery that they even benefit from arguably to even maintain their transports and technical systems.

For any person or group in any system, there's a breaking point where things have gone too far, but how much one tolerates up until that point says a lot about their moral character. The Jedi were drafted by the Chancellor (Oh you) and perhaps they thought being 'kind' to the clones when they interacted with them was enough, but it wasn't. And while the Jedi continue to believe in the Republic far beyond acceptable, victims mount.

During the Wrong Jedi Arc, the Jedi Order also show themselves in bad light. It would have been one thing to believe Ahsoka was guilty and leave it at that, yet they practically threw Ahsoka under the bus for politics in reality. Mace kept talking about the politics, essentially showing Jedi PR was a more important factor than Ahsoka's life.

Mace Windu: "I understand your sentiment, Obi-Wan. But, if the council does as you suggest. It could be seen as an act of opposition to the Senate. I'm afraid we have little choice."

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan advocated for Ahsoka briefly, expressing doubts at her guilt, but at best casts a vote in her favour when he knows it won't be enough. Give it to Anakin in this instance, at least he did an actual private investigate to prevent a wrongful conviction instead of sitting back. Like Asajj Ventress said when confronted by Anakin, the Order abandoned Ahsoka and appease a Senate that supports authoritarian policies, kangaroo court trials and a slave army. What a state to die for.

Ahsoka: “This is why the people have lost faith in the Jedi. I had, too, until I was reminded of what the Order means to people who truly need us.”

How can the Jedi believe in the Republic to the point they were surprised when they got inevitably screwed over? Again, the narrative supports the idea the Jedi have lost their way and become enforcers for the Senate, however fascist and dangerous it has clearly become. You kind of have to have in order to become key leaders of a slave army when you were peacekeepers beforehand. The Republic is failing, but so are the Jedi. They fight the war with the tools they are given, from their lightsabers to their slave soldiers, with no solution or appropriate concern for the legislative catastrophe happening at the heart of the Republic until they realise Palpatine's been in a little long with his executive powers. They enforce laws, unjust systems and follow orders.

Fives: "I'm sorry. I cannot just follow orders when I know they're wrong. Especially when lives are at stake."

Captain Rex: "You will if you support the system we fight for."

Fives: "I do support it. I do! But I am not just another number! None of us are!"

TCW shows us that following rules and regulations when they're immoral is the wrong course of action, yet no matter the signs and warning, the Jedi continue to play into Palpatine's hands with their misguided patriotism as the Republic becomes increasing draconian and despotic. The most problematic factor about the Jedi is that they don't acknowledge the problems and the fact the clones' situation is unacceptable on every ground. They don't acknowledge the clones' situation, they don't acknowledge the Republic is bad or try to think of solutions to that even if they don't work. The situation is complicated, but the Jedi went along with bad options when they should have known what the Republic was by this point. How can the Jedi enforce justice when they enforce the corruption of it?

The Jedi continue to believe in the Republic and their part in he hierarchy when it seems more akin to a hostage situation with slaves in the balance. If they're blind, they're fools. If they knew, they're knowing enablers.

A tight spot

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "For over a thousand generations, the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic... before the dark times... before the empire."

Now, the flaws in the Jedi are clear, but it's all well and good to critique them. What could the Jedi have done effectively instead? If the Jedi were more keyed in on the Republic's unsalvageable system and decided to be proactive in regards to it, what could they do realistically? Aside from the emotional weight of getting people to abandon their home and a multi-generation relationship the stretches back centuries and centuries, the logistics of getting 10,000 people to desert and transporting them without the Republic and GAR noticing and stepping in feels unrealistic. Not only this, but they'd be ditching the clones to slavery yet again, as it's not like the Jedi can all desert and take the clones with them like they're plushie toys. Each clone is a different individual and deprogramming child soldiers is difficult.

People like Dogma, Neyo and Bacara wouldn't canonically desert without the right circumstances, Captain Rex wouldn't just desert with Anakin, nor could Obi-Wan sashay Commander Cody and his troops away like some of the fandom thinks. A lot of clones were indoctrinated to be loyal to the Republic from a young age. If the Jedi had just flat out tried desert, Order 66 would have likely happened earlier and Palpatine would have easily painted the Jedi as traitors.

Of course, there are the inhibitor chips as also a factor, but we can only judge the moral character of the Jedi based on the knowledge they did have and what they chose to do with it.

Barriss Offee: "An army fighting for the dark side. Fallen from the light we hold so dear. This Republic is failing. It's only a matter of time."

However, this is no excuse for the Jedi Order choosing the worst option out of a bad bunch. The Jedi crossed the moral precipice. They crossed it ever since AOTC when they decided that indoctrinated, slave soldier of dubious origin were just what they needed to throw into the desert meatgrinder that is Geonosis as the war started. There reasons make sense in their way, there's millions of units of droid army marching their way and the Republic and Senate have only a ten-thousand strong Jedi and the Judicial Forces. At the same time, the reasons for that humanitarian crisis aren't justifications. 'Cool motive. Still slavery' applies here.

Ethically, Yoda and Mace shouldn't have just gone along with the draft without any counter-strategy, especially if they cared about the clones as human beings and a people. They could have pretended cooperation and done discreet resistance at least. Of course, the Jedi even if they resisted weren't probably gonna have a happy ending, as generations under Republic thumb had neutered them and taken their passion and power, but they would have taken the moral and right action.

Instead, the Jedi remain the face of the war effort, using a Trojan Horse slave army just given to them with no real protest. If the Star Wars had truly wanted the Jedi to be wholly good, they'd have had them be more begrudging, cynical and weary at being pressured and coerced by the state. There'd be growing Anti-Republic sentiment, which would have been a start. Rebellion, dissent and mutiny would have been even more valuable and expected. Instead, the Jedi Order are loyal to the regime until the very last moments of the war.

In Conclusion

In the twilight years of the Republic, Palpatine really used every weakness of the Jedi against them. As an organisation, the Jedi really can't save themselves. Individuals can, as shown by Ahsoka leaving, but the Republic destroyed the Jedi, it took their soul, it bureaucratised and militarised their culture, and the Jedi just slid down that slope. That's part of why the people felt abandoned by the Jedi, as the Jedi were too melded to the system both functionally and idealistically, trapped in the snake, them and what they stood for slowly digested as they safeguarded and enforced unjust status quos. Even when Dooku was young, as The Tales of the Jedi said, they were already damned. Ahsoka left, every Jedi should have at that point. The Republic definitely would fight an en masse desertion, but it'd have been the right thing to do.

Some Jedi realised and left, others were to committed the belief of a Jedi Order that had become a shadow of what it was. The Jedi are a warning of what happens when governments, hierarchies and religion connect and influence each other for centuries. At the same time, adult Jedi were responsible for their actions, and each could have done more for the clones than they did.

Fives: "We must be trusted to make the right decision, especially when the orders we are given are wrong!"

[swinging-stars-from-satellites]

I love your takes so i wondered what are your thoughts about He Who Remains offering Loki and Sylvie his power?

In my opinion, this was a deception which is symbolized by Kang eating an apple. He and Miss Minutes tempt Loki and Sylvie by offering them their hearts' greatest desires: being together and power. While Loki had the good intentions at heart, i think he is Eve in this scenario, however, Sylvie is no Adam. Kang miscalculated one thing: Sylvie hates power because the authority is what made her life miserable, she won't take this job because she thinks the system itself is evil. She does not care about tormenting Kang or The TVA or creating the worlds to her liking, she wants the justice, revenge and this fascism to end.

I don't think that killing Kang was a mistake even if the chaos followed, i believe that's what the universes have to go through in order to resolve the whole multiverse problem once and for all, because while the many bad variants are no good, the authoritarian regime obliterating many innocents for the sake of the few is no better. Sorry for a long ask! 💚🗡

hi!!! dhsjdhdjs thank you sm for the compliment, I'm happy you like my takes on stuff!!

ok this is kinda fun for me bc I am a Christian, so I definitely pick up on the imagery and themes and it's pretty interesting how they used that?? (also the free will/determinism discussion is much fun for me bc I can be a bit of a theology nerd dhsjsjssksj)

I don't have a whole lot to add to what you said, except just that you're,,, very right. I dunno if I can get into the free will vs/and determinism stuff without it sounding massively unhinged and only making sense to my theology mutuals (@ontologicalmoki @kayliebooks @ the rest of the knitting circle hiiiiiiiiii) but it is a very interesting concept within the show, because it's very... black and white?? like my belief is that, somewhat paradoxically, both can coexist. can't really explain that one without faith, but yeah. and the Loki series takes a very "one or the other" stance BECAUSE the person doing the determining isn't actually God — so of course HWR's taking away of free will (and I would argue that there *was* still free will even with him around, @fortes-fortuna-iogurtum said something about this a while ago but I forget how she put it shjdjsks) isn't right or reconcileable!

your last paragraph is the one that stands out to me tbh, because like... I mean this is obviously fiction so I'm not taking it as anything with actual moral weight, ya know, but I don't think killing HWR was either wrong *or* necessarily right, either? the timelines were freed before Sylvie killed him. the threshold had been crossed and the timelines were all splitting anyway (which is something I think a lot of people miss??? idk but it seems very clear to me when I watch the episode); at that point it wasn't about free will, and really, was it ever?

like YES 100% that is Sylvie's beliefs and she HATES what the TVA does and what HWR was perpetuating and she is RIGHT bc no one should ever have that kind of thing down to them, but her end goal wasn't, ultimately come right down to it, about that ideal and that freedom for everyone else. it was personal — it was ALWAYS personal to her, she says that herself — and it was about killing the man who, by virtue of his position, took everything from her.

(an aside in two parts: number one, that i would argue that the far more personal side is between Sylvie and Ravonna. Ravonna is, after all, very very directly — more directly even than HWR, despite him orchestrating everything — the person who stole Sylvie from her life and her life from her. Ravonna is the one with a pretty clear vendetta and who very personally hates Sylvie. HWR actually doesn't seem to dislike her, which is mildly funny tbh, but Ravonna? H A T E S Sylvie. imo I feel like that's the more revenge-worthy side of it tbh, because directly and personally Ravonna is the one who took everything Sylvie ever cared about and who ever cared about her — including Loki, at the end of ep4!!! — from her.

secondly: HWR says that it isn't personal; yet, as a matter of fact, he's intentionally orchestrated everything just to get Sylvie and Loki to the Citadel. sounds pretty personal to me tbh. and like yeah I know he's Not a good dude and he's Very Much Not above lying but that's... interesting to me?? because he's obviously manipulating the situation and I think he wants to cause a schism between Loki and Sylvie. he sees the way they're magnetized to each other and almost immediately starts planting seeds of doubt for Sylvie: "you really think you can trust this guy?" etc. BUT THE THING IS that he says that bit about it not being personal, even though it actually is personal on some level, and I wonder if that wasn't just to make Sylvie angrier? like... he's kinda playing with her, in the worst way. and I think he wants her to be a little bit unhinged, if only because her desperation and hurt and anger is entertaining for him or because of some purpose he may have for it, idk.)

Sylvie's justification for killing HWR (aside from the fact that she doesn't have any qualms about killing in general) is entirely wrapped up in her own vindication. she wants her right to exist and she wants revenge for what's been taken from her. she's made her entire purpose and identity about this, because what else did she have to build herself on? her entire mission and so much of her identity is very negative-focused: she is AGAINST the TVA and HWR. but the question is (and I very much hope the second season will delve into this), what is she FOR? who is she with that mission behind her and what does she fight for instead of simply the things she fights against, if that makes sense.

so like, yeah, I think that that was what was meant to happen. the multiverse was always gonna break free; there was a clear threshold and even HWR knew that. the thing with setting it up to get Sylvie and Loki there was that he wanted them to take over, which neither of them wanted (rightly!!). this is what idk if people actually *get*: it was always going to happen. there's no other way it could go; the timelines were always going to break free. there's not a thing anyone — HWR, Loki or Sylvie or both of them, even the TVA as one massive whole — could have done. someone/thing that is not God cannot, in the long run, fill God's role.

and honestly??? I think that's a really dang interesting angle to write a TV show on.

[the-sanders-sides]

(wtit spoiler warning)

unpopular opinion, but im not really a big fan of the idea of the orange side being wrath or anger. while similar to inside out, the sides arent really emotions; rather, they are your different conflicting thought processes when you work through a problem. you have the side of you that is logical and knows the facts and tries to use reason to solve things, the side of you that focuses on your morals and tries to use steadfast loyalty to your values to solve problems. there is the side that is anxious and tries to use to make use of fear to protect u and solve the problem.

there are the sides of you that are creative that think of fantastical solutions to your problems, whether good or bad, that try to take you to your dreams and desires. with roman, this is with disney-esque tales and hopes that keep thomas going and having a reason to things. with Remus, I think it may be using the intrusive thoughts to get Thomas to slow down when thomas is overwhelmed and wants to rest, which makes sense bc, at least with me, ik when I have an uptick of intrusive thoughts, it usually means i need to rest and relax so I'll be less overwhelmed and take care of myself.

and there is the side that is deceitful and cunning and mean and self-centered as a means towards approaching your problems with your self-preservation as the primary thing to uphold. unlike morals which may tell you to share what you have, this deceitful side of you acts selfishlessly to make sure that you are put first, no matter the cost. which is why I think any anger or wrath would come from Janus. anger as an emotion is often an expression of self-preservation. you feel anger when you know you've been hurt and you lash out in anger to protect yourself. janus has lashed out a fair amount for the small amount of episodes he's been in.

by now, it's also fairly agreed upon that Janus and patton are opposites/counters as well as roman and remus. with both pairings, it's seen that you need a healthy balance between those two sides, those two lines of thought, to not completely fall apart.

i am a firm believer that anxiety is the counter or parallel or opposite of logic. your logical thought processes get so messed up when you're anxious and scared, and logical thinking is often used as a tool to combat anxiety. this was explored between Virgil and Logan very early in the series. virgils anxiety causes cognitive distortions that weaken logans logical processes in being listened to. logans logical thoughts are able to tame Virgil's anxiety when it's too strong. i think Logan and Virgil balance each other out. those are the two who make a healthy balance together which has been discusses, albeit briefly, early on (remember the Yerkes Dodson curve?).

this is why I think that whatever the orange side, the seventh side, is, it won't be a counter to anyone in specific, and it won't be wrath/anger. right now, orange is showing up when Logan is weakened in someway. when janus kidnaps him in svs redux, orange only shows up after that. when Remus messes with Logan in today's wtit and logan is frustrated and out of it, only then did orange come through. we don't know if orange can control other sides as well, but if it's like janus at all, where janus tries to remove logan and his rationality from the problem solving, there's a reason it would focus on messing with logic & rationality to achieve it's goal of however it helps thomas.

because remember, all the sides do what they think is best for thomas. the sides are the manifestations of his different thought processes driven by different outlooks that all have an end goal of trying to solve thomas's problem in that way. but in the end, it is always up to thomas to choose which thought pattern he'll listen to. thomas chooses what he will do based on the persuasiveness of his different thought processes.

(for example, c!thomas comes across a wallet on the sidewalk. morally, he thinks the wallet should be turned in to the local authorities at all costs no matter what. his self preservation instincts tell him to take the cash and leave the wallet behind since the detour would waste his time. his anxiety tells him to leave it alone so he wont get framed for stealing. good creativity/roman would make him imagine a grand heroic prize for tracking down the owner of the wallet and personally delivering it, and bad creativity/remus might make c!thomas imagine finding and killing the wallets owner so he can take all the money. logical thought would say for c!thomas to return the wallet to local authorities if he has the time to do so, and if not, to leave it be. these are all just the different thoughts running through c!thomas's head which can then be personified as sides, and whichever action he does is attributed to the side who had the most persuasive line of thought, but none of these lines of thought are trying to hurt thomas, it's all different ways of protecting/helping him.)

so whatever orange is, needs logic and rationality to be a bit disrupted before being able to be persuasive enough to be listened to. this doesnt really seem like anger/wrath to me. someone can be rational and angry (ie. planning a revenge later rather than hurting someone now, passive aggression, etc.) which all feels more like Janus things to me, and I think you actually need to be rational to use your anger effectively. going ham on someone without thought will not have the same effect as thinking about the best places to hit without them getting you back. anger and logic don't need to keep each other in check like deceit and morality or logic and anxiety; rather, they need to work together. i dont think logan would be opposed to a side that represented anger at all. and orange would not destabilize logan so much if it were anger.

plus, Virgil is the only side that really represents an emotion. but I think people generally always have a sense of anxiety and fear in their problem solving, but anger/wrath isn't always there. for a quick issue like a lost wallet, i can see how these other sides of thought processes can exist, but i dont know what anger would tell Thomas to do there since anger is just an emotion.

so the question is, what is a thought pattern that exists when solving problems that tries to protect/help you, while also needing to push away or overpower your sense of logic & rationality to be persuasive enough to be listened to? I don't have the answer to this but I'd love to hear what other people think about this! especially if u see flaws in my reasoning of why orange isn't anger, I'd love to know!

[radiantmists]

i feel like this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but i sometimes see people talk about grizzop as a sort of paragon of logic and morality and it always bugs me.

bc like. yes, i love grizzop. and i think it’s clear that he is very much trying to be good, and he’s very committed to doing what he sees as the right thing. 

but the same are true for azu and hamid and plenty of characters, and i don’t think he’s any better at moral reasoning than most of the rest of the party. i think the impression that he is comes from his unshakeable confidence and his mastery of what I’ve started to think of as catholic logic. 

(this is fairly stream of consciousness and i’m not gonna tag it bc it’s not gonna be entirely coherent or especially well argued, i’m just getting some thoughts down. but my understanding is that sometimes untagged stuff shows up in search, plus ig i have followers, so feel free to reply and discuss this, i’d actually love that. but not much i say here is stuff i’m super confident about so... please don’t get too offended by my wrongness. just tell me why you feel im wrong without aggression, or move on.)

the first bit is the confidence. we don’t ever see grizzop have a moral crisis in the way that most of the other characters do. I can’t think of a time that he’s appeared to look back on something he’s done and wonder if it was wrong; the closest that occurs to me is when he regretted shooting the guy’s legs off in the cairo bar, but tbh i think that was more of a judgement error where he expected to hurt the person much less than he did. we don’t see him question things like flooding the orc town near damascus or dragging sasha into the politics of ancient rome when she didn’t want to be, and honestly, i think this lack is mostly to do with how short a time he was with the party.

most of the arcs he were present for were focused on hamid and sasha’s growth. where he played respectively the accuser and the protector, both roles that made him look good because they cast him as the arbiter of who was right. 

i think hamid, especially, bought into this in the cairo arc, because i think hamid is very consciously in the process of recalibrating his moral compass at the time and he has a marked tendency to do so based on the people he admires-- and the loudest voice in the room. hamid really doesn’t like people he admires having a problem with him, and he already felt that he wasn’t necessarily a good person, so he was very open to seeing grizzop or azu as the authority on whether he could be good, and since grizzop pushed where azu prevaricated, grizzop was the one who got the final say.

but in the same arc, you can see sasha and azu starting to question grizzop’s moral compass; sasha notices how legalistic grizzop’s judgement is, and that it really ought to condemn her too, while azu takes issue with how brutal grizzop’s methods are (see punching wilde). but neither of them are willing to press the issue with him at that point, and so he’s never really confronted with something that contradicts him.

and notably, grizzop’s confidence comes from the obvious source: he believes that artemis is inviolably good, and he knows she approves of what he’s doing because his powers still work. but there’s an arrogance here, too, a very strong belief in his own moral superiority with the slightest confirmation; look at rome, where he refuses to listen to azu and ed’s assertions that there’s something wrong with the gods there, because he was able to bull through to artemis the one time he tried, so obviously he must just be a better paladin of a better god, right?

grizzop has very strong beliefs and opinions, and he takes whatever route works best to fulfill them-- both in terms of actions, and in terms of logic. take his decision to forgive/endorse hamid near the end of the cairo arc: by his own assertions, people should experience consequences for their actions, and we know he knows what manslaughter is because he brings it up when hamid first starts talking about accidental murder. but where saleh and carter belong in jail because they’re ~bad~, hamid is allowed to continue on because he’s ‘trying to be better’, never mind that that  was hamid’s whole argument about why saleh didn’t deserve to go to jail. plus, saleh’s one goal when he thought he’d killed someone was to resurrect them, which imo makes a lot more sense as a redemptive gesture than going around killing entirely unrelated people. the rules are different because grizzop likes hamid (and probably a bit because ben didn’t want to break the party, but shhh).

this twisting of the logic to fit what you’re trying to prove is what i mean by ‘catholic logic’ (i’m catholic dont @ me); it sounds really good if you don’t think about it too hard, but in fact it’s generally post-facto rationalizations for decisions that have already been made.

grizzop is very enthusiastic about poking holes in other people’s moral reasoning, as we see with apophis, but i think his issue is that he’s got a blind spot when he looks at himself and his own decisions. in grizzop’s world, grizzop is right as long as artemis is still with him and everything else comes after.

now i’m personally of  the opinion that alex doesn’t bother/want to engage with the idea that gods take away powers, post-poseidon nonsense, which if true i sympathize with; doing so is either going to lead to the sort of inscrutability zolf had a meltdown over, or put a player in the weird position of making their character do what alex has decided their god would require or having to entirely reinvent the character without those divine powers.

on another meta level, my understanding is that grizzop  was designed to be very resistant to doubt because of ben’s difficulties playing zolf, so i think he might have been nearly as resistant to growth on that front as bertie was in general, because believing unshakeably that he’s right is a core element of his character. 

but i think if grizzop had lived longer, alex absolutely would have done some hammering at that absolute conviction. that might have come in the form of vesseek and the fact that grizzop is apparently an absentee father; even if he is sending home money, i can’t imagine that not being something that gets mined for angst. 

i also think he would have eventually come into a similar sort of conflict with azu, sasha, or cel (whoever was there) that zolf is in right now, where he absolutely believes that whatever killing he’s committed/intending to commit is not only right but a moral imperative, and they disagree. 

now whatever side you fall on in the barrett debate, i think grizzop ought to be a lot less willing than zolf to say ‘i’m not gonna go through you lot to do it’, not because i’m convinced grizzop would be hugely more willing to physically fight the rest of the team over it, we know that despite his practicality he seems to overlook some ‘’’wobbles’’’ in people he already cares about,  but because zolf is capable of giving up on something in a way that grizzop just isn’t. i dont know how that would play out; chances are, it would get interrupted by a fight, but. who knows.

[iamanartichoke]

I started typing this in the tags of this post, and it got too long, and then I was going to just reblog the post with this as an addition but that got too long too, and I've been meaning to make a post addressing free will vs. predestination since the premiere anyway, so - here we go. Spoilers, obviously.

Cut for length and spoilers. Please blacklist #loki tv series spoilers, #loki series spoilers, and #loki spoilers.

This is kinda rough and I'm not sure it actually makes any sense but I'm posting it anyway.

I realize that the post is a joke, obviously (and it is hilarious) but I started thinking about the implications and couldn't stop because it's honestly a goldmine of existential reflection and an inevitable crisis or three.

Let's look at a scenario.

Say you're late to work for reasons totally beyond your control: your neighbor stopped you to ask a question on your way out the door; you swung through the drive-thru for a quick coffee but the person in front of you is ordering a full continental breakfast ffs (this happened to me this morning); there was an explosion and then the Winter Soldier randomly dropped from the sky and landed on the hood of your car. Whatever. Shit happens.

So you're late, but on this particular day, your lateness somehow has consequences that lead to and create a nexus event and the next thing you know, you're being arrested, tried, convicted of time crimes and ultimately (a version of you is) erased from existence.

And this is if it's not even your fault you're late.

Now say that you're late and it is your fault. You took a new route on a whim and drove a little more slowly because you passed a particularly pretty meadow; you hit the brakes at a yellow light instead of speeding through bc you wanted the quick chance to check your email; you sat in your car for a few extra minutes in the parking lot, because maybe your job sucks and you really needed those extra minutes today to psyche yourself up into getting out of the car and going inside and clocking in.

These little choices are you exercising your free will. Because to me, free will is all or nothing - it doesn't just apply to the big decisions.

On the other hand, predestination means that regardless of the choices you make or if it's a big decision or not, everything you do is ultimately going to lead you to a set point or position or place (your destiny).

And I can kind of look at it like a GPS - that is, there are a number of "insignificant" choices you could make and they will still lead you to where you're predestined to go. Like how a GPS will reconfigure your route if you miss your exit on the highway. It doesn't matter if you took Route A or Route B, you're still going to end up at your destination.

But say sometimes the route does matter. Say that there are certain scenarios in which there's only one road (for example, 14 million losses vs 1 win) and you can only get on it by following a specific series of events and what determines the ultimate outcome is whether or not you're late to work that day.

If you decide to wait those extra five minutes in the parking lot, that means that you weren't in your cubicle at 9:03 when Stanley from Accounting wandered by with his giant stack of papers, and when Mary Sue said hello to him, he got distracted and tried to wave and ended up dropping those papers. Had you been at your cubicle, you'd have swooped down to help him but since you weren't there, Stanley is crouched on the floor alone and doesn't notice Joe coming at him with a paper trolley so when he stands up, he and Joe collide and Stanley loses his balance and goes face-first toward the trolley and breaks his nose when he hits the metal handle on his way down.

Now Stanley has to go to the hospital to get his nose set because you wanted to sit in your car and spend five extra minutes hating your life that morning.

If the sacred timeline says that Stanley is supposed to be in that ER at that specific time on that specific day, and no other set of circumstances would get him there, because this will ultimately take Stanley down the road to whatever greater journey he's supposed to go on, then it has to happen. But say you exercise your free will and decide not to wait those five minutes, because the free will applies to every choice you make, even the tiny, insignificant ones. You chose to put on your big person pants and took a deep breath and just head inside - and because you chose to do that and because you were at your cubicle to help Stanley with his papers, Stanley never ends up in the ER and the timeline that's supposed to happen is suddenly at risk and the TVA has to get involved (I assume).

So having free will introduces way, way too many variables into a fixed timeline to ever keep track, because you're taking these tiny, seemingly insignificant choices that people are making every minute of every day, and you're multiplying them by trillions of sentient beings in the universe, and you're saying the fate of the timeline and reality itself depends on all of these beings either always making the choice they're supposed to make or constantly sending the TVA out whenever they don't.

It's fair to conclude, then, that both free will and a fixed, single timeline can't exist at the same time. Either you adhere to the fixed timeline and everyone does exactly what they're supposed to do every second of every minute of existence, or you have free will and autonomy over all of your decisions, no matter how big or small, and those decisions can result in a number of outcomes, ultimately leading you to one of several possible destinations.

Case in point: Tony didn't have to snap his fingers in Endgame. He chose to. Had he not, Thanos would have won. It doesn't matter if there was one way to victory or 14 million ways to failure; the timeline could ultimately only go one of two ways and the choice Tony willingly made determined that Thanos lost. It wasn't predetermined because if Tony had not chosen to snap his fingers, the timeline would have gone the other way.

My personal belief - and this isn't necessarily for the MCU, but in general - is that we do possess free will and the future is ever shifting and changing because nothing is written in stone. It holds up against most, if not all, of the world's belief systems. For example, if you believe that people have guardian angels, the rule is generally that your guardian angels can help you but you have to ask them; they can't decide to intervene without your permission because to do so would infringe upon your free will.

Similarly, you can go on etsy and pay $5 for a funsies psychic reading or pay a lot more money for an in-depth, specific tarot reading and both will tell you that the outcomes may change depending on the paths you take, and that their ultimate advice is for you to keep your focus on your goals and your own self so that you can be subconsciously manifesting the best possible future for yourself. (Not that I know this from experience. It was one time. It was a few times. My point stands, and also stop judging me.)

To get back to the MCU, though - if you determine that both a single, fixed timeline and free will can't simultaneously exist, and your ultimate purpose is upholding said timeline and not letting anyone fuck it up, lest it break off into lots of different branches, then it poses a pretty serious moral and/or ethical question of - who decides what choices we make and what paths we're destined for? The time lizards? Who gave them that authority? Did anyone, or did they just manifest themselves into existence one day, create the universe, and then decide all of the rules (and, if so, where does that leave the norns and the gods and other super powerful beings who are generally thought to be in charge of things)?

If free will doesn't exist and everyone is acting based on what has been predetermined for them by some higher being (or, in this case, time lizards), it takes away our autonomy, and if everything we do and every single tiny step we take is decided for us, what makes us any different than cogs in a machine just following orders? What separates us from robots?

Speaking of robots, it's interesting to me that the TVA's screening process (if you can call it that) has a failsafe against robots specifically. Any robot that might come through is destroyed immediately and in this case, “not a robot” is defined, more or less, as a sentient being that possesses a soul. What does the TVA have against robots if their ultimate goal is ensuring that the robotic machinations of the time lizards are consistently carried out to protect the sacred timeline?

A soul makes you human; the energy of the soul is what you, at the core, are. It can be assumed that having a soul also means that you have some sort of moral and ethical code by which you live your life but, if you don't also have free will, then what is the point of possessing a soul and a moral and ethical code?

Loki is a villain and he's told by Mobius, the TVA, Odin, and pretty much everyone who ever meets him that the only thing he's good for - the only reason he exists - is to cause pain and suffering and death. This has been predetermined for him; this is not his fault and he did not choose it. And every single choice he makes has either already been destined as the choice he was supposed to make, or will be pruned so it won't grow into the wrong timeline. Ultimately Loki can change neither his final destination, nor the purpose and meaning of his existence.

Which leads me to the theory that the several Loki variants that the TVA keeps coming across are the result of Loki consistently resisting against his predetermined path; he's trying to find the timeline where he is able to latch onto and keep his own free will in defiance of the timekeepers but, so far, he hasn't been successful. This could segue into why the current Variant is now going scorched earth and just obliterating the main timeline completely - because if there is no sacred timeline, there's nothing dictating who or what Loki can be, and free will is regained. If there's a multiverse that branches and branches beyond anyone's control, then there must be a branch in there, somewhere, where Loki can exist on his own terms and decide how his own story goes.

This also might be a theory for why Loki is already setting his sights on taking over the TVA (assuming that's not just something he told the variant for reasons). But my original point in delving into all this is to ask: if Loki is predestined to always be a villain whose story plays out exactly the same way because that's what's supposed to happen, then how can anyone ever hold his misdeeds against him? He's literally just existing as the timekeepers decided he would exist and everyone is blaming him for it.

And this leads me to ask, as well, if one's soul is generally good, and one possesses more good traits than bad, what is the logic in making them exist only for pain and destruction? If it's for a greater good, then it stands to reason Loki is not the only one predestined for misery, and what greater good could come from all that suffering?

Conclusion: the existence of the TVA as an organization means that there is one fixed, sacred timeline but the existence of said timeline is immoral and unethical because it means no one actually has any free will at all in the MCU. The very notion of heroes and villains is pointless because it has nothing to do with your own qualities or morality, it's literally the luck of the draw. In order to have free will, the sacred timeline has to be destroyed, and so my prediction is that the Big Bad of the Loki series is not the TVA and not the time keepers but the actual timeline itself, and the entire fate of the MCU rests on whether or not Loki can ultimately succeed.

Also, don't be late for work.

[themilky-way]

like water {din djarin}

gif credit: no-droids

pairing: the mandalorian/din djarin x fem!reader

summary: when the one person he cares about is threatened, he lets himself indulge in the aftermath of defending them. 

warnings: some violence in the beginning, choking (not in the fun way), depictions of scratches, punches, and minor abrasions; the reader is hurt basically. oh and mando’s gun bc yeah❤️umm that’s it i think? nothing too horrible tho but if this thing triggers you, please don’t read !!

author’s note: not to be conceited or anything (is that even the right word for it lol?) but im super proud of how this turned out! requests are open btw for anyone who wishes to submit anything (if unsure, just ask which fandoms)!

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cyar’ika-> darling, sweetheart

nothing in that exact moment had made much sense. one minute the most precious thing to ever exist to him was snatched away, and the next his hands were gripping the treasure beneath his holster. his knuckles were lily-white at this point, holding the gun as hard as his body would allow him to without crushing underneath him, and the urge to cock it made him visibly shake. he’d been given a command, and out of all the merciless men in the filthy galaxy, he needed to follow it, so his weapon of preference stayed where it needed to. 

the meager specks of emotion that still lived within him betrayed his prominent composure, the view in front of him blocked by the sudden glaze of his eyes. the small drops of saltwater puddled together in his now hazy orbs, holding on until it was nearly impossible to stay put and then rivered down his cheeks. the cause? well, you.

you were filling up the mandalorian’s line of vision, his eyes darting between you and the bounty that had gone wrong. an alienated hand was wrapped around your innocent throat, your feeble hands wrapped around its wrist in a dumb attempt to break free. the ground you were roaming on before appeared to be never ending, and in the same way, the darkened sky absorbed you whole. vertigo was now in full effect; any quick movement caused you to shut your eyes tightly and hope to the maker you’d get through it. it took a few seconds for you to regain your balance, a sharp pain pinging around your neck forcing you to find it. you half expected to be back on the mud again, to have the man you had spent the past year flying around with pulling you to safety. instead, you found din frozen in place, an instinctive action rooted in the steel handle of his pistol. he wasn’t moving, too scared to blink as if you’d disappear if he did. 

perhaps you were; someone like you seemed too good to be true. in all actuality, it may be that you were a fever dream, a celestial that had come down from the sanctity of your home to finally rescue him from his burdens. amidst his frantic glances, he reminisced every second he’d spent with you since your unforeseen arrival, and that somehow worked for him. the gears in his brain started to turn again, and with every ounce of his strength, he pounced on the quarry and did what he should’ve done the instant you were taken from him. anger took over his worry, the effects illustrating themselves in a collage of mitted fists and blood. the pistol residing on din’s waist was useless compared to his hits; the softened position of his jawbone was locked firmly as a result of his gritted teeth and he was going to need more than your delicate hand on his shoulders to ground his senses. 

the mandalorian never expected to succumb to anyone, nor to feel remotely joyful upon hearing someone’s laugh. the idea of kindling a relationship was ludicrous, utterly impossible if only he weren’t bound to the chains of his creed. oftentimes, he wondered if someone would one day traverse his path and make him question every moral he’d been taught. din had dismissed the thought, as any other member of his intricate society would have, but the wondrous insight depicting a different lifestyle always lingered faintly in his mind. 

today, the very same visions behind his recurrent insomnia framed themselves in a frail art piece. din’s focus laid directly ahead, the fingers navigating the center controls as tight as they’d been on his gun. his eyes deserved to rest, perhaps take in the splashes of color nature was offering him, but he landed them on the same lovely sculpture adorning his cockpit. 

you were seated in the chair adjacent from the pilot’s, with your knees closely tucked to your chest. one large scrape designed itself on your leg-a dull reminder of the ordeal you were involved in hours earlier-with flakes of arid blood protecting the wound. bouncing off the skin of your throat were shades of red and purple, now properly mixing into a deeper complexion that’d require you to hide it for some time. besides the scattered nicks living on your face, and the other couple dozen on your arms and legs, the outcome wasn’t as terrible as the one your attacker received. it was a rule of thumb to not mess with a mandalorian, much less with the pretty little lady clutching his arm as if it were second nature. the foolest of fools wouldn’t even have done such a foul thing, and this particular creature came to know the punishment for harming what wasn’t rightfully his. 

it truly amazed him; the way you seemed to be so unphased by a traumatic circumstance. the woman beside him-the same one who couldn’t sleep unless a window was open-had endured pain, and the marks on her skin proved themselves in jagged indications of it. through the darkened screen of his visor, din could make out your hands neatly intertwined around your folded knees, your chin simultaneously resting on top. you’d been as observant as you always were, hardly missing his actions as he navigated his newfound family to a safe stop. sure, you were unaware of the loving term he considered of you and the baby, but it didn’t hurt to keep it a secret, right?

“hey.” it came out more hoarse than he intended it to, but the emotion behind it flowed out nonetheless. “you okay?”

not really. i don’t feel good. it was easy to say exactly that, to speak the truth, but it was even easier to lie. for the sake of his own worry, at most. your eyes were still glued to his armor, taking in the rough outline of where you imagined his skin would be underneath, or moreso the abstract idea of feeling it with your hands. reflections of your yearning came and went like the mandalorian’s missions, almost impulsively at times, and the curious, teasing tilts his helmet would bid you only encouraged that craving. much like now; the black “T” of his expressionless face leaned to the side, asking you to earnestly respond. “mm, yeah. ‘m kinda tired, though,” you mumbled.

you threw him a lie and he caught it. “don’t lie to me.” din swiveled his chair to accordingly match the peripheral of yours, his elbows coming to rest on top of his beskar-clad legs. “can you look at me?” he inquired softly. then, his intent fell on the slow shift of your head and how it turned to face him, your cheek settling on your unscathed knee. a breath fell from his lips at the doting admiration swimming in your stare. “there she is,” he confirmed with an upward curl of his lips. “is there anything i can do?” it was sincere; a genuine concern to accompany his question. you hummed in response, fearful to accidentally voice the confessions you hid from him. you blinked once, twice, until his question became a plea. “please, cyar’ika.”

reasonably, you were too busy exploring the shape of his helmet, permitting your creative imagination to paint images of the man next to you; so when your ears perceived his sudden name of endearment, there was nothing amongst the stars that you could’ve possibly denied him from. “you’ve never called me that before,” you smiled, all big and brilliant. 

“i’ve wanted to,” the man replied. what resembled ages of pent up stress released with a few curated words. his muscles relaxed, something he never believed to be attainable given his vigorous profession. “god, i’ve wanted to.” 

he followed it with a humble laugh. a sound so familiar and warm, so genuine that it empowered your grin to spread higher. “by all means, keep saying it.” now it was your turn to nervously giggle, and him who embraced the noise with everything he could. a mutual infatuation, so wonderfully obvious, yet it was refused acknowledgment. “i think there is something you can do, though.” silence advised you to continue, “can i sleep with you tonight?” 

the misguided pieces of your minds’, maybe even your souls’, reattached themselves that very same night. as the both of you slept, hands, calloused and smooth, intimately merged against the cushions of the warrior’s bed. tender kisses planted to your forehead left electricity in their wake, and the dark ambiance of his dwelling favored the entanglement of your tired bodies. 

“i wish i could see you, din,” you sighed. the manner in which it was expressed, full of sleep and everything akin, urged him to lift your weightless wrist to his lips. 

“you’ll get to one day, cyar’ika. for now just let me hold you, yeah?”

[alliterative-albatross]

So, I sent you (@disgruntledspacedad) a pretty long ask a while ago (back when you had anon on) and I'm decently sure Tumblr ate it (or maybe you ignored it, in which case, feel free to ignore this one as well). But then I saw one of those "writers appreciate feedback no matter how long" posts, so I'm back here. Here is my mediocre attempt to rewrite my original review of your work. Bear in mind that English is not my first language, so if at any point my phrasing sounds weird to you, you know why. Mandatory disclaimer/apology: this might get a little too long 😅

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

I remember being SO mad at myself for not finding this sooner. I binge read it one afternoon with no thoughts for any real life responsibilities I might have had (and no regrets). Javiears is one hell of an unconventional relationship in the beginning, and I really love what you did with them. The whole premise of your story is quite refreshing, and you somehow manage to convey the trust and mutual respect there two feel for one another without explicitly showing us the beginning of their "entanglement".

Also, fuck you for what you did to poor Emilio, that man was a saint and he deserved better! I honestly can't believe that I got so attached to a character that appeared so little in the story, but it happened, and his death kind of broke my heart.

But the Javiears reunion + mild confession was lovely, and felt completely deserved. And of course the sex scene. I won't lie, I expected a bit better from Javi there, but I did like how utterly /human/ it was. Capturing that humanity, the imperfections in each character is something you're really good at (more on that later).

AFTERSHOCKS

Ah, my emotionally constipated babies who really need to work out their communication issues. I do love them, though. And this short series did a really good job of delving a bit deeper into Ears's and Javi's psyche. Kudos to you for dealing with the medical "aftershocks" of living through an explosion AND using that experience to move your emotional plot forward. These two need to grow a lot before they can get to a stable point in their relationship, and you really manage to convey their insecurity and fear of commitment/intimacy while making it clear that they're in it for the long run and that theirs is a relationship that WILL work out so help them God.

IF I FALL

Ouch. Punch me in the gut while you're at it, why don't you?

But seriously, "If I Fall" is SO FUCKING GOOD. Don't get me wrong, it's angstier than an image of Jesus on the cross (don't judge me, it's Holy Week and I just got home from accompanying my grandma to church), but it somehow works beautifully. You, my dear, play heartstrings like they're a fucking guitar and I AM HERE FOR IT.

You're doing an amazing job at making me feel everything these characters are feeling, which is both awful (bc pain) and impressive.

Also, if anything happens to Ana I will cry, because she is adorable and wonderful and has suffered way too much already and really deserves a break and some cookies.

Also also, if anything happens to Ears I will cry, because she is badass and wonderful and has suffered way too much already and really deserves a break and some cookies.

Also also also, if anything happens to Javi I will cry, because he is loving and wonderful and has suffered way too much already and really deserves a break and some cookies.

Basically, I am really invested in the well-being of these characters and can't wait until they're happy and safe again (please tell me they will be, my heart can't handle much more pain).

A quick note on the angst complaints: yes, this story is way angstier than most other fics out there and it can be a bit too much at times, especially considering how many chapters of pain it's been. BUT it's obvious that "If I Fall" NEEDS this amount of angst to get where it's going, to send the message it wants to and to properly develop its characters. The pain is as important to this story as flour is to bread. You may not like eating flour on its own (I don't think anyone does), but you love bread (because bread is amazing) and you must recognize that bread NEEDS flour to work. It wouldn't be bread otherwise. And eating the flour as part of the bread even makes you like the flour because the bread is just DELICIOUS.

I fully understand and sympathize with the people who have elected to table "If I Fall" until it's completed so they can binge read it knowing there's a happy ending in sight, but in case you're feeling a bit self conscious about all the angst, please know that your story is beautiful not in spite of the pain, but rather /because of it/.

PS: No, I'm not high/drunk, I just really like bread

AUTHOR'S NOTES

Silly thing to comment on, I know, but I do feel like it's important that you know how useful your ANs have been. There are many details in the story that I simply wouldn't fully get without reading your comments at the end of each chapter, and I appreciate your writing a hell of a lot more knowing how deeply you understand and care for each one of your characters. Plus, it is obvious how much work you've put into researching a country and a time period that are (from what I gather) unfamiliar to you, and I really do believe you've done an amazing job of it.

JAVIER PEÑA

My boy. I love your characterization of this complicated character, and I have eagerly read each and every one of your headcanons about him. I can't really say if your version is fully faithful to the source material because it's been a while since I saw Narcos, but your Javi most definitely reads like a real person. He's fairly consistent as a character, and I feel like everything he does is perfectly natural for him to do as a character. He makes for an unconventional yet deeply interesting romantic lead, and so far I have thoroughly enjoyed all his POV chapters/scenes.

OCs

I know you've gotten some flack for making her into an OC halfway into the story, and while I get why the sudden change may have felt like a disappointment for some, I don't share that sentiment. I firmly believe that this fandom is unfairly harsh towards Original Characters and their creators, and I don't really understand why. Listen, I love Reader fics, and consume many Reader fics. I have read dozens, maybe even hundreds, and I can safely say that I've only ever "inserted" myself in approximately 10% of those stories. Reader characters are not as blank as their writers may want them to be. They can't be. They're characters, and character have personalities and moral values and senses of humor and a bunch of other things. Reader characters may not have a backstory or a physical description attached (and even that's not guaranteed), but they're still characters.

And on a more personal note, pretending they're actual blank slates is naive at best and insensitive at worst. Reader characters are American coded 99% of the time, and white coded 95% of the time. Not every readers is white nor American, even if that's the predominant demographic on Tumblr. When I read a JavixReader fic about a woman who speaks exactly zero Spanish, I know she's not me. The story may be beautifully written and have an amazing plot and character development, but the Reader *isn't me*. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and some of my favorite xReader stories feature a "reader" who couldn't be more different from me, but it's something that enemies of OC fics should take into account. Particularly if they are white and/or American. But I digress.

HANNAH AARONS

Your character is amazing. She's strong, smart, confident, independent and an all-around badass. She gets kidnapped while pregnant and still focuses on problem solving and survival. But she's also overly guarded and mistrustful, and really needs to work on her communication skills. There are times when I absolutely love her and even admire her, and other times when I want to whack her with a slipper. She's no Mary Sue, but remains interesting and likeable throughout the story. She feels wholly human and real, and that's no easy task. I like her, I am invested in her, and I can't wait to see what's next for her. She's a compelling and three dimensional protagonist in a complex story who never fails to draw me in. I love her. She's your baby, and you should be proud of her.

Also, quick question about personality types: I know you've typed Javi as ESFP and Ears as ENTP (100% agree on both, btw), but have you given any thought to their enneagram types? I personally have always seen Ears as being somewhere on the thinking triad, maybe a 7 or even a 6w7, but I'm not too sure about Javi. 9w8 maybe? He could also be a 6w5 🤔

PARTING THOUGHTS

Basically, I love your story, your characters and your writing in general. You are a fantastic storyteller and wordsmith. You get into the heads of incredibly different characters personality-wise (Ears, Javi, Berna...) and manage to capture all of their complexities and quirks every single time. And it doesn't feel like it's something innate for you either. To me, it seems that you have put a lot of work and effort into understanding each and every one of your characters, who they are, why they do what they do and what they want. And let me tell you, all that effort has been more than worth it. "Better Love" is a fanfic, but it wouldn't be out of place in a regular bookstore, if I'm honest. I don't know what you do for a living or if you've ever considered writing professionally, but you clearly have the skills and the drive to create some masterpieces.

You are amazing and your writing is a gift. Thank you for sharing it with us, and have a nice day! ~ 🍪

~

My friend, I apologize for hoarding your first ask. I’ve been sitting on it because I’m not gonna lie, I enjoy going back and rereading it. It gave me a lot of comfort when I was in a pretty dark place, both personally and in regards to my writing, and I was reluctant to send it out into the the abyss of Tumblr where I might never see it again. 

That’s not fair, though. You put just as much effort into sending me that review as I put into my writing, and I apologize for never responding to you.

Okay, anyway, so twice now, you’ve made me cry. In a good way, I promise! 

I absolutely love your bread/flour metaphor. It made perfect sense. I want the emotional release of Javi and Hannah’s reunion to be earned, and in order to do that, the angst has to come first (there are also a few plot “ingredients” that have yet to make their appearances). Thank you very much for understanding that, and for voicing it so eloquently.

I appreciate your comments on my research and characterization. You’re correct that I’ve put a lot of time and effort into crafting a universe. In a lot of ways, I’m doing my best to stay true to the source material (regarding culture and timelines in particular), and in others, I’m branching into my own territory. 

On that note, I’ve never once regretted fully embracing Hannah Aarons’ identity as an OC. She’s stayed consistent in my mind from the beginning, and it was a relief to finally share my vision of her with the audience. And for the record, I totally agree with you regarding “reader” characters. Every reader insert echoes the perspective of their author, no matter how vague the physical description. I can only imagine how grating that must be from the perspective of a non-white, non-american reader. Thank you so much for sharing your insight! I will certainly keep it in mind the next time I write a “reader insert” fic.

Okay, enneagrams! I am much less familiar with enneagram than I am MBTI, but I agree 110% that Javi is a 9 with a strong 8 wing. I waffled back and forth on Ears a little, but eventually landed on 8w7 for her. It came down to the eight’s deepest fear, which is being controlled. That’s Ears all over, and the fact that she and Javi share that eight willfulness means that they might butt heads a little, which also seems very appropriate for them. Big thanks to @remusstark for her insight into the eight frame of mind - our conversations helped solidify my decision on this. :)

Anyway, I’m just rambling now. The big take-away point that I want you to get is that I am so, so grateful to you, both for your insightful feedback and your dedication in making sure that I actually saw it. You are an absolute gem and a deep thinker, Cookie-Anon, and if you ever feel like sliding into my DM’s, I’d welcome the opportunity to get to know you better.

Mad love and soft hugs, 

~ Jay

[scarabbai]

For your role reversal au, what happens after Yuu and Grim are booted out of the dorm? Do Azul and co still help them? Or does Yuu think of a way to get back inside and help?

ANON I HAVE FINALLY (somewhat) WORKED OUT THIS PART SO I CAN NOW ANSWER YOUR QUESTION!

Important (and new/previously unmentioned) context and details behind when MC and Grim are thrown out of the dorm:

(YET ANOTHER “INFO UNDER THE CUT” POST BC I HAVE NO SELF CONTROL AND TALK A LOT)

In order to keep MC and Grim entertained during their stay at Scarabia (and to keep the dorm members busy so they can’t ask MC for further help/explain their situation in more detail) Kalim has the dorm put together preparations for a grand Winter Break banquet to “celebrate the arrival of [their] guests.” This puts the dorm members to work without it being too obvious/them being too upset since Kalim already tends to plan and throw parties pretty often in order to boost morale. While the bulk of the work is done by the dorm members, Kalim himself plays the role of an excellent host and entertainer by accompanying MC and Grim everywhere around the dorm and showing them all the wonderful things about Scarabia, subtly assuring them that everything is fine and wonderful in the process. After all, how can there possibly be anything wrong when the dorm members are all smiling, laughing, and having fun while putting up decorations, when the dorm is alive with music and dance practice, when Kalim gives MC and Grim all the best that Scarabia has to offer?

Sure, the actual dorm leader doesn’t make many appearances during MC and Grim’s visit, but when he does, he’s kind! Civil! Polite! A generous host, don’t you agree? Don’t pay any mind to the way the dorm members get a little quiet when he shows up! They’re just very focused on their tasks in order to impress their dorm leader, you see. That’s not fear in their eyes, it’s respect! The dorm leader is incredibly responsible, brave, and intelligent after all. He’ll never let anything bad happen under his watchful eye! Disregard any rumors you’ve heard about Scarabia and Jamil...everything is fine. Kalim says so, and his sunny personality and bright smiles feel so genuine, it’s hard not to believe him. Something about the way he speaks, the enthusiasm and warmth in his words, it draws you in, makes you trust him.

Something still doesn’t seem quite right though, so MC and Grim stay at Scarabia for a few nights to wait and see. For a while, it seems like Kalim’s telling the truth. Everything does appear fine...up until their third day at Scarabia, when the banquet is finally fully prepared. Everyone is having fun, chatting and laughing while eating lunch together, but everything gets quiet when Jamil takes a seat at the head of the table, Kalim loyally at his side. For context, prior to MC’s arrival at Scarabia, Jamil threatened all the dorm members into silence and as a result is currently ruling by fear instead of true leadership. Therefore, everyone is afraid to say anything that might even vaguely hint at rebellion or discontent, and the banquet takes on a very tense and uncomfortable air.

Grim, fed up with this sudden nosedive in atmosphere, snaps at Jamil. Since it was his presence that brought on this sudden fearful energy, it’s clear that the rumors are true. The dorm members were telling the truth when they said Scarabia was a nightmare, Jamil’s a lying snake, and Grim and MC were right to come in and investigate. The sudden accusations and questioning of Jamil’s authority do not sit well with him, and he basically loses his shit bc not only did Grim admitting they came to the dorm to investigate and not to just “see how great Scarabia is” mean that they snuck in under false pretenses (BAD move) and thus are a threat to “the security of the dorm,” but also this is a surefire sign that Jamil’s control of the dorm isn’t absolute and there are little rebels in his midst. Given Jamil’s past experiences with rebels and traitors in his family, it’s not surprising that he lashes out at Grim and ends up exposing his tyrannical/controlling nature. Before Jamil can do anything serious though, Kalim holds him back and very strongly “advises” Grim and MC to go back to their guest room.

Effectively banished to their room for the rest of the day, Grim complains and stews over the confrontation for hours, getting more and more upset that not only are he and MC getting ignored by everyone now (nobody comes to visit them or tell them what happened afterward) but also that Jamil is an asshole who’s been mistreating his dorm members. It becomes very obvious Grim didn’t learn his lesson from the lunch incident when late that night, he takes it upon himself to leave the guest room and rush toward Jamil’s room with the intention of barging in and giving him a piece of his mind. MC, in an attempt to stop Grim, chases after him. However, neither of them get very far—when Grim is just a few leaps away from Jamil’s door, he gets snapped up and completely immobilized in a sticky magic webbing that comes flying out of nowhere. MC, who is only a few steps behind, also gets stopped in their tracks by an arm around their neck and a blade at their back.

Kalim, his protective nature and moderate guard training having taken over, doesn’t even bother to put up a cheery or delightful front as he questions (read: interrogates) both MC and Grim on what they’re doing. It’s in the middle of the night, they were practically charging directly at Jamil’s room while he was sleeping, they’ve lied and caused trouble already, and both of them joined the school under odd circumstances. Who’s to say MC and Grim aren’t secretly after Jamil’s life? Under Kalim’s intense scrutiny, they very quickly explain themselves, and though the smile Kalim gives them doesn’t reach his eyes at all, he seems to accept their answer. However, this doesn’t stop them from being kicked out of Scarabia. After pocketing the blade (it practically vanishes when Kalim puts it away, did he have it on him the whole time?) and grabbing Grim by the scruff of his neck, Kalim personally escorts MC to the dorm’s exit mirror. On their way there, a rather panicked looking dorm member runs up to Kalim, asking when they’ll finally go through with “The Plan” and rambling about how they’re “worried Jamil will find out.” Kalim quickly shushes the student before shoving MC and Grim through the mirror.

Now fully aware that Something Is Up, MC and Grim decide not to head back to Ramshackle immediately and instead think of who might still be on campus to assist them. Considering the Octavinelle trio are at NRC for the holiday and that they kinda lowkey owe MC gang for resolving the events of Ch3, they decide to go directly to their dorm despite it being in the middle of the night. Floyd’s happy to see MC gang, Jade is curious as to why they’re here so late at night, and Azul is interested in the strange situation they claim to need help for. After MC explains everything they’ve seen and heard, the fish are most definitely intrigued, and Azul, who never passes up an opportunity to get on Jamil’s nerves, declares that they’ll assist in the investigation. This is a side to his classmate (and classmate’s close friend) he’s never seen before, and he simply must know all the juicy details. Thus, MC and Grim spend the rest of the night at Octavinelle, and the following morning they all go to Scarabia. Unfortunately, due to Grim’s stunt the night before, MC is no longer welcome in Scarabia and the dorm itself is on high alert per Jamil’s orders and Kalim’s strict enforcement—not a single outsider is making it in.

So, what now? The group brainstorms for a bit back at Octavinelle before they realize there’s a loose end they might still be able to investigate despite not being allowed into Scarabia: the mysterious plan mentioned by the student. Jade asks MC to recall what the student looked like, and they’re able to give an accurate enough description that the fish now have a target. They spend the rest of the day going from place to place to find said student, and when they do, the tweels corner them. Jade uses Shock The Heart to find out the details of this plan and when it will take place, revealing that the plan will be executed tonight and that it’s a covert operation to sneak students with urgent financial/health/family/etc situations out of the school and back home for winter break. Knowing the student won’t remember giving up the secret, they let them go and plan a stakeout. If they get footage of the students’ escape, they can use it as leverage/a reason to be let into Scarabia for further investigation. That night, they do manage to record what happens:

A small group of students slipping out of the Scarabia dorm mirror, assisted by none other than Kalim himself. Any whispers are too hushed to make out what’s being said, but all in all it’s very clear that Kalim is the leader of the operation and the one guiding the students to the main magic mirror. Each of the students thank Kalim before disappearing home, most with tears in their eyes and some even taking Kalim’s hands into their own in grattitude. Kalim gives each of them a kind smile before they go. It’s a very sweet moment.

A true shame that this very moment is the catalyst for the disaster to come.

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

[garetthawke]

and literally as someone who (like everyone else at that time,) was a fan of john green's books as a teenager...y'all literally never read them and hate them based on your assumptions from reading the synopsis and seeing that the author is an adult man.

are his books above criticism? absolutely not. but the valid parts to criticize are, frankly, never the things i see people calling out. i only ever see his books reduced to a bunch of bullshit assumptions that aren't even close to being true.

paper towns wasn't the manic pixie dream girl romance, it was a deconstruction of that genre that undermined teenage boys' obsessions with girls and their projections onto them, breaking down the idea that you can love someone by holding onto your idea of them without ever really knowing them. the literal end of the book is the "manic pixie dream girl" shutting down the affections of the lead character, telling him he literally doesn't know her, and forcing the reader to realize the romanticized image of her was entirely the perspective you were reading that was all in this kid's head as he obsessed over her.

and yet after the movie trailer dropped, literally the ONLY criticism i saw was "ugh john green has manic pixie dream girl fantasies about teenagers" like hello???? what??? use your fucking brains

and the fault in our stars, while definitely the book that recieves the most fair criticism, also gets some of the most UNfair as well.

please tackle to hell parts like the leading couple kissing at the anne frank museum, bc ugh. but like? do not fucking complain about this book for being a romanticization of cancer or depression.

this book was my absolute FAVORITE as a teen, because i was struggling so deeply with depression, completely alone, and it made me feel seen and understood for the first time in my LIFE. the exploration of depression in it is so on point and personally relatable, i cried my way through most of the book not just because the contents were sad, but because i realized i was not alone in the feelings I've had.

and as someone who has watched multiple family members pass after a long battle with cancer...this book also gets down into some of the ugly truths of what it looks like.

and i don't think that was well recieved, because while doing all that, the book wasn't a hopeless, bleak, "life is pointless pain" message at all, which is what i think people tend to demand out of "realism."

but the point of the book was the yes, life can be ugly and painful and unfair, but you can still Love in the midst of all that, and find incredible purpose in that in the time you are here. and that is ao fucking far from romanticization - it is finding the joy in life that is something to cling to when you are at your lowest.

and that was an incredibly powerful, important thing to tell people, and it really was a an encouragement to me when i was suffering the most.

and the book mostly, to this day, gets belittled because people think some of the lines are pretentious and cheesy (nevermind that they mostly come from a teenage boy, and oh yeah teenage boys are never either of those things. /s)

and idk. it just. annoys me very, very deeply that john green is one of the most outspoken and supportive (verbally AND financially,) of minorities as a very privileged cishet white male celeb, and people refuse to listen to any of the points he makes or good things he says, and assume the actual worst. projecting that shit onto him bc he's a privileged man...doesn't help minorities?? at all???? maybe YOU feel good about yourself, but those of us that would actually benefit from john green's support are left to deal with MORE negativity coming at us from the fake accusations of it than if you would just fairly listen to his supportiveness...

and even like the infamous cock post from years back? yeah that shit wasn't funny AT ALL. the brothers are some of the few privileged white men I've seen to be so supportive of LGBT people, and yet the big joke that "bullied" john on here was seemingly implying that john being gay was embarrassing and funny. that kind of joke is usually rooted in the humor that the person in question IS homophobic and actually upset at being seen as gay, but john is?? an ally??? so where is the joke. how is the joke not "haha it's funny to make a gay post about a straight man"?? how am i, a gay person, supposed to read that "humor" and not think my sexuality is the butt of the joke? especially when it's specifically at someone who supports my sexuality?

you can mock john green all you want, but it's 2021, no one should be believing it's some sort of "woke" humor. you don't have a higher moral ground for it.

[frostiifae]

hi i’m not gonna engage directly with that post about masculinity and the pressures it’s put under growing up bc i am much too fragile for that, but also my feelings on that post wind up going out to jupiter and back instead, so sorry about this but --

I’ve been mulling over the idea that maybe social media, as a whole, is a bad place for social discourse (shocking, I know). The core idea of it is simple - you take a statement like “men are overly sexual”. This statement is at least glancingly true, but not ironclad. It is true enough to make a specific point in context, but it isn’t true enough to project outward into the world without context.

People with more authority than me have already done plenty of research to demonstrate how modern social media is designed specifically to present ideas free of context. It’s virtually impossible to have a meaningful conversation in the open space of Tumblr, Twitter, or Facebook, for varying reasons - but the sites do their best to trick you into not noticing. 

In a post I exchange between my two best (female) friends, we may cajole about the horrors and ugliness of men, saying things we don’t really believe, partially tongue-in-cheek, partially to make fun of the radical ideas that say these things without the requisite irony. But it would be so very easy for someone - even someone that knows me, someone I care about - to stumble upon that post and misunderstand. In reality, that post wasn’t really meant to be public. It was just for the three of us, because we have a shared context that changes and colors the way our words are interpreted, and without that context - the things we make look alien, or worse.

How easy it is for this simple misunderstanding to repeat itself at progressively larger and larger scales. Isn’t it amazing how Anita Sarkeesian attempted to say something hardly controversial and completely understandable, but a lack of context drove an entire counter-cultural movement and drove a wedge into the heart of the community she wanted to speak to. Incredible how, even as we all rally behind the cries Black Lives Matter, Defund the Police, we still have people claiming to be races they aren’t, asserting themselves over marginalized voices without thinking - and how, even as I do my best to keep my mouth shut, I can’t help but wonder if something is being missed because I can’t find the words to ask the questions I wish I could ask. 

I keep wondering, what if I could just pluck one of those horrific alt-right reddit meme boys from their chair and sit on a park bench with them, offer to get them lunch, and just talk about our visions for the future. Surely, we’d disagree on a lot of things, but I’m used to that. I’ve always been a weird kid, and I found solace in understanding the why of people’s beliefs - people’s reasoning always made more sense to me than the conclusions they would reach because of that reasoning. And I really feel like we could find a lot in common, if we could break past the surface layer of what we believe, and instead talk about the experiences that led us there. After all, I, too, was once a disenfranchised middle-class white male on the Internet, whose favorite pastime was to lose themselves in an emerging culture of chaos and creativity that seemed impenetrable from the outside. I, too, was once frustrated with the posturing of feminism, with the idea that men ought to be judged demographically without regard to their individual status. I still am frustrated with that idea, even now that I’ve come to grips with why it keeps coming up. I can’t say that it’s false. But I can’t say that it’s true, either. 

I wish I could explain that it doesn’t matter whether it’s true or false - that it never has mattered - that none of this was ever about telling people how they should think, or what words they are and aren’t allowed to use, or how they should volunteer their assets in the name of the less-privileged, or how they should sit at the back of the bus to make way for the flavor of the month. I wish I could explain that I understand how it seems from the outside, I really do, because I was there once, and it seems like such a mess of contrarian nonsense that can’t even find time to agree with itself, but you have to understand, it’s not about rules and regulations, it’s not about a strict moral or social code, it’s just about trying these ideas out in a public space and seeing if they make things better for people, because the way the world is now isn’t working. 

But I know what would happen if I tried that: I would get told, “And what about me?” and, well, there’s the rub, isn’t it? What about you? 

Is it selfish to focus on one’s own problems? Is it “male privilege” to listen to a talk about feminism and ask “but what about us?” Does that make you a pillar of the patriarchy? I feel like the answer is so obviously no, but we keep reacting that way, because when some dude comments on a feminist post and all we have to go off of is a name, an anime avatar (and believe me, I love anime avatars, so don’t think for a second I’m going to judge you for having one) and a single off-color remark, we have to come to some kind of judgment and it’s never going to be accurate. We tried so hard to teach everyone to think about the person behind the screen, but at the same time the Internet evolved in such a way that we know less and less every day about the screennames we come into contact with; the mountain is being built higher and higher ahead of us as we climb. 

I think the solution is to just stop. I really, really do. 

I was educated in feminism by a person who sat down with me in a series of one-on-one conversations and answered my questions as patiently as they could. I’m not friends with that person anymore - we wound up having a lot of disagreements on finer points, even besides the way we actually treated one another - but I deeply appreciate that time they spent with me. I refined my knowledge of feminism by taking those conversations to other people I trusted, and seeing how they felt about those ideas, further whittling away at this chunk of philosophy I had been given, turning into a thing I, personally, could believe in. This is the way human beings learn: we find a teacher we trust to confide in, we find a place to practice that feels safe so that we can try things out, and we build up confidence in private before taking our findings into the open. 

What do we accomplish by taking two people who have already cemented their convictions and bashing them against each other in a public space? Spectacle. That’s really all there is to it. Hate to sound like an old batty cynic but social media really is built around social spectacle. Twitter’s Trending tags, fandom discourse, political pages on Facebook mocking each other in memes that spread through social circles while dissidents look on in quiet disgust. The point of the whole model is to turn human culture into a hadron collider. This is not the place for nuanced debate. We should all know better. But, somehow, we don’t. And all the worse for the younger people caught in the crossfire that don’t understand what’s happening. 

It’s funny how you hear about things happening to other kids, parents and teachers and principals setting rules that seem completely ridiculous and unfair, and then you grow up and start to realize that - even if you still disagree - there’s a hint of wisdom in there. I dunno, maybe we should be withholding the internet from our kids until they’re adults. Not because they’re not mature enough for the Internet, but because the Internet isn’t mature enough for them. 

ᵒⁿᵉ ᵒᶠ ᵗʰᵉˢᵉ ᵈᵃʸˢ ᶦ ᵍᵒᵗᵗᵃ ᵐᵃᵏᵉ ᵐʸ ᵒʷⁿ ˢᵒᶜᶦᵃˡ ᵐᵉᵈᶦᵃ ˢᶦᵗᵉ

[howtotrainyouragents]

Agent H’s Book Reactions

The Wrath and the Dawn by Renée Ahdieh 

Shahrzad vows to marry the murderous king and kill him, but she discovers there may be more to him than meets the eye

-Allow me to set the stage: I am not a fan of Ahdieh’s stuff. I’ve tried starting this book multiple times in the past and was turned off. I read A Flame in the Mist last year and rated it one of the worst books I’ve ever read (admittedly, I was in a very different mindset when reading these two books). But for some reason, I was in the mood to hate-read this book. So I did, and, though fully expecting to loathe it, I really loved it

-If I had read this earlier in my life (re: before I developed critical thinking), I would have without a doubt been obsessed with this book. It is everything younger me could want. I deeply regret this, but I find comfort knowing it came out when I was in college and already had critical analyses skills :/

-This book actually has a lot of good things going for it: great incorporation of culture/setting, mostly interesting characters, cool premise. The purple prose is a bit excessive, but I thought it was written way better than in a Flame in the Mist despite being written first.

-The biggest issue I had was that the author didn’t want to commit to making her characters questionable. You have Shahrzad whose whole premise is to commit murder, but at no point does she actually come up with a good plan to commit murder or attempt to follow through. You have Khalid who is a murderer. Now from the beginning, I was expecting her to explain away the murders, but I was disappointed that the genesis of the murders still casted him as passive good guy when he should have been really morally grey or outright evil. Btw this and FitM, the author thinks that she can write enemies-to-lovers when really she can only write insta-loves (which is fine! I enjoyed the insta-love)

-There is such a disconnect between who people say Shahrzad is and who she shows to be. Tariq, Despina, her father, Khalid all say that she is brave and smart and loyal, but alot of times she’s not? She’ll talk back and she can shoot a bow, but they hype her up way more than she actually is and she becomes more passive as the book goes on? 

-I can’t believe I like Khalid. I can’t believe I swooned so hard over this romance (once I got over the fact that it was a insta-love and she had no intentions of killing him). Like damn, Ahdieh, you got me; I owe you many apologies

-Irsa should have been important in the book :/

-Tariq was the Nice Guy and it was fun to watch him lose

-I loved Jalal and and the JalalxDespina storyline, but 1) Despina should have been WAY more freaked out, she’s literally an unmarried woman in ancient times carrying a royal baby.  2) They should have interacted more! She blushes once at him and Shahrzad guesses their whole relationship from that; but also, they would have GREAT chemistry and we should have gotten to see it 

-I didn’t read the nightly tales Shahrzad told. Sorry not sorry

-The action scenes were like how I would have written them... and I can’t write action scenes. I will use this as an opportunity to encourage people: if a type of scene/plot is not your strong suit, you don’t have to write it in!

-Musa Zaragoza, Khalid’s mother, the magic rug (which was a Chekov’s gun unfired), and Khalid’s uncle were such interesting plotlines that should have been way more prominently featured

-The most emotionally gut-wrenching scenes I’ve read in a long time: Shahrzad finding the letters and Khalid telling her to kill him. Holy shit. I do not forgive the author for cutting the tension after these scenes

-Speaking of, this is just a general rule of thumb, but, yes, sex can be the culmination of tension, but it also cuts the tension and when you cut the tension, we no longer care. Straight men and women, ya’ll need to learn to YEARN

-I’m disappointed in where the story left off because it did not resolve anything, and I think it should have just been one big book instead of a duology. 

-I was just skimming at this point, but Jahandar started the fires right? Bc that’s the kinda of questionably grey actions this book is missing! 

-The fact that Khalid visits only her (like he just fell in love with her the moment he saw her?) makes no sense. The curse makes no sense. The fact that Shahrzad stayed alive for so long and it took so long for repercussions to happen makes no sense- but I do like the fact that there were repercussions at the end and not in the way we were expecting! 

[thedisorganizationofelliot]

podcasts

This past year I’ve gotten really into podcasts as a way to help manage my adhd, so i’ve gone through quite a few of them and i thought about making my own rec post. obviously i have adhd and was putting it off lol but my friend expressed interest so here’s the list of podcasts that i’ve gotten through at least a full season of and loved.

The Bridge

10/10 erie atmosphere

"A podcast about the fictional Transcontinental Bridge, the people who live there, and the stories they leave behind. Oh, and monsters."

The Magnus Archives

holy crap this is so well done. it’s horror so i can’t listen to it to help me sleep but if you want fear and true spookiness this is great. the main character is a department head for an institute that deals in the paranormal. his job is to record ppl’s statements of the weird unexplainable things that happen to them. but he’s more on the skeptic side of things which creates just enough humor to get me through a horror podcast. queerness does happen in the background. 

The Adventure Zone

i feel like if you’re looking for fiction podcasts you’ve already heard of the adventure zone. three brothers and their dad play tabletop rpg. it’s hilarious and made me cry. when they accidently do something like say kill the first lesbian couple on the show, they actually do make up for it and apologize for not realizing. their solution was to keep giving us so many lgbt characters that i didn’t even notice that the first were playing into the bury your gays trope until i went back and listen to their the the adventure zone zone eps. 

Victoriocity

 do you want quirky crime solving steampunk adventure? bc this show will give you just that. It’s full steampunk victorian london shenanigans. reminds me of patrick carmen’s writing a bit if you read his books as a kid i’d highly recommend this. 

Inn Between

okay this is a show that’ll give you a toothache. it’s all found family adorableness. it takes place in the inn that the group goes to in between dnd adventuring. it’s very heartwarming and i adore all the characters. 

The Penumbra Podcast

if i only had the choice of listening to one podcast ever again, this would probably be the one i choose. its so goddamn good and so goddamn queer. they’ve given me my dream sci-fi world and fantasy. there’s a canon poly relationship that i love soooo much.

The Amelia Project

what does one do when they want to disappear? why call the amelia project of course! each episode starts with a phone call, involves hot coco, and crazy schemes to make ppl disappear. 

Girl in Space

i can’t say too much about this without giving things away. there’s a girl alone on a spaceship with a very important job and a copy of jurassic park. then suddenly she’s not alone and it turns out that her ship is full of something very valuable and isn’t technically hers.

if you want space adventures about friendship not romance this is one for you. seriously i love it so much.

The Strange Case of Starship Iris

this one is totally completed. it’s short. in my eyes it’s a better firefly. you’ve got your morally questionable main crew (and the pilot is an alien bc they’re not cowards) who take morally questionable jobs. they end up picking up the only survivor of starship iris and well there’s some fishy things that happened that everyone wants to figure out. 

We Fix Space Junk

do you fear corporations taking over the world and charging so much for things that you’ll be in debt for life? well this is your fears come true.  it’s lighthearted tone makes things even more unsettling at times. it’s main plot is between a women who’s been working off the debt of her ship for way too long and her new, previously an heiress, apprentice. 

Be the Serpent

three red headed fantasy authors talk about books and fanfiction and make dick jokes. i love them.

Death by Dying

i dont really know how to explain this one. it’s kinda got a pushing daisies style to it. the obituary writer goes around and sorta accidentally solves murders while he’s doing his research.

Eos 10

did you want a scrubs in space? bc this is scrubs with space pirates, a reluctant recovering alcoholic, a hypochondriac disposed alien prince who is now a dishwasher planning to a kitchen revolution, a nurse who’d could kill you but has, hopefully, decided to help you.  it’s pure shenanigans. they get into so much craziness. definitely has that found family vibe bc i know what i’m about.

King Falls AM

did you also listen to nightvale in highschool but gave up on it after 20 or so episodes bc it didn’t really have a plot? then this is perfect for you. two dudes run a late night talk show in a perfectly normal town. it’s completely normal to have ghosts that move road signs, a lake monster, a vampire???, alien abductions, and calling your favorite local radio station about all these totally normal happening and how you can’t believe they’re interfering with the fishing tournament. 

i’ll be honest this was annoyingly boy heavy for me at first. the only women at first seemed to be the perfect librarian, the soccer mom,  and gwendolen the racist witch. but then there’s a plot about punching himminsts and all these women getting fed up. so i think it's totally worth it. THEY GET FLESHED OUT EVENTUALLY 

The Bright Sessions

for a podcast about a therapist to ppl with superpowers this one stresses me out. which is good. i mean there’s a lot going on and a shady government agency

The Ordinary Epic

a group of fictional ppl play as fictional dnd characters. Season one left me on kinda a cliff hanger and idk how to feel about it. It entertained me, so like a 6/10 maybe a 7? so far. 

The Two Princes

gaaaaaaaaay if you want a fairytale romance this is the place to be. 

[bakedcookies-a]

𝐛𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐟: 𝐦𝐞𝐭𝐚 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐥𝐢𝐞'𝐬 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐩 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐨𝐭𝐛𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐨𝐲𝐬. 𝐡𝐨𝐰 𝐝𝐨𝐞𝐬 𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐞𝐞𝐥 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐢𝐭 ?

@crownedguilt / send me things to write metas on

ok buckle the fuck up gang this ones gonna be Long

first of all: charlie Did Not Expect that he’d be the next captain. is he good at the game? yes. is he the nicest jock on the team?? almost definitely. but captain? he never would’ve imagined himself as captain. the teams his family, he cares about them all very much, but he always kind of assumed they’d find someone better for the job (his money was on luke or diego). the win itself?? is a giant shock to him and when he’s asked to say a few words??? he kinda stumbles over his words a bit but essentially rehashes zachs speech from when he became captain, said that the team are all his family and that he loves them and that he Knows they can all be good people, says that he's gonna try to lead by example and says that he’ll do anything for the team.

when it comes to actually being a leader though? no one takes him all that seriously. he tries, he does, but as we see in the scene in 4x03 where jess talks to the team he’s a little too softspoken and everyone tends to talk over him a bunch and sometimes doesn’t listen to him BUT the team has his back anyway. like ok im goin all in on that scene but he immediately stands up to luke and tells him to show some respect and the guys in the back all stop laughing when he does but as soon as luke talks back to him the guys are laughing again and charlie’s clearly kinda deflated in that moment and he’s talked over and ignored when he tries to quiet them down and it’s not until diego makes some noise to shut them up that people do listen and. there’s a whole other meta on how charlie is trying to support jess in that scene but. i feel like it’s a v big display of the dynamic?? like they listen to him and all but they also know it’s easy to talk over him without consequences? and while he’s the one with the ideas and he has the influence i think his actual power as a leader comes mostly from diego amplifying his voice? like i think they all Know what he’s saying is right and they all see him as a leader but... don’t really respect him as much? especially the seniors i think aren’t big on having a junior as the leader so they listen to diego more so a lot of charlie’s work goes through diego?? and now i have an entire new emotional rant to go on about charlie and diegos friendship but i’m not gonna do that right now that’s not for this post

in terms of how charlie actually feels about it?? he’s not entirely sure he actually deserves it? definitely thinks diego’s a better leader than him even if he’s not quite as nice as he is. wholeheartedly wants to be like zach in terms of leadership and wants to be this awesome good captain that continues the legacy that zach started to build and just generally looks up to zach’s way of leadership a lot but.. as confident as he can be he lacks the ability to not crack with peer pressure i think? like he’s still v much a kid and when it’s a whole group against him he struggles to find his voice and make his point clear, but he’s very clearly v close to everyone on the team (the teams excitement at the prom kings announcement??? they love charlie u can’t convince me otherwise) and he definitely opens up to them a lot. i think the team probably is the first people he really comes out to, and even then it’s not really like a big coming out sorta thing? he just makes some offhand comments here and there and assumes they’ll work it out and we see at the very least in diego that it’s working but it’s also v obvious in luke bc luke kinda hangs around in the back of a couple of charlie/alex scenes and Definitely Knows whats up and i think he’s definitely the one that put the prom kings plan into action and again i could go on and on ab his relationship w luke BUT i digress

essentially? charlie doesn’t feel like a leader even though he is one and the team can kind of sense that and sort of use that to talk over him a lot but there’s also definitely some disconnect w the team over his feelings towards monty (not wearing monty’s jersey for one, diego saying “unlike you she’s sad he’s dead” which brings on Yet Another whole ass rant) but the team does genuinely care for each other a lot and he’s not afraid to stand up to them, he just tends to be outnumbered on a lot of things and whether or not someone else backs him up tends to be the swaying vote on how the team reacts. in terms of actual football leadership? charlie knows what he’s doing and the team listens to him, but when it comes to moral leadership he definitely has more of a subconscious influence than he does an outright one if that makes sense

i haven’t even touched on justin helping him by being co-captain, which i wholeheartedly believe charlie did so that he’d have someone with authority on his side, but justin being co-captain is v important for charlie thanks for coming to my TED talk