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messiahzzz · 1 year ago

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thank you sm for the ask!! 💕 i’m glad you enjoy my posts and it is not a strange request by any means!

note: this is merely my read on gale’s sexual preferences/kinks. i don’t want to police anyone on their headcanons or claim they are “incorrect”. since the game doesn’t provide too much detail, many things remain up to interpretation. (and lest we forget fanfiction has always encouraged the exploration of dynamics that may not be present in canon.)

gale is a character who isn’t interested in walking the straight and narrow route. he is all about new experiences, favoring non-traditional means, putting his own spin on things, and the thrill of seeking the forbidden. the sheer romance of the uncharted and the unknown. he is enthusiastic in almost every aspect and possesses an infectious zest for life. in regards to his sexual preferences, this translates into an eagerness to explore, witness new sensations, and reach new heights together. while approaching the topic of sexuality with a generally playful, adventurous attitude.

if you’re looking for harder kinks, however — i don’t believe gale is the character for you. and in case it needs to be said again: there is nothing wrong with being vanilla.

initially, i see gale as a switch, who gravitates more towards assuming a dominant role, due to his ever-present desire to give and to impress. i do think he enjoys giving up control, yet you still have to actively convince him to let himself go and be spoiled for once. his first focus will always be to fulfill his partner's needs and drown them in his all-encompassing love and adoration. i also believe that gale will grow more comfortable with being the center of attention, once their relationship has reached a point of total security (and he had ample opportunities to show in just how many ways he can wow them). gale is not a strict dom, nor a sub. in his ideal relationship roles would be discarded entirely, deeming them too restrictive in his expression of intimacy with a trusted partner. it’s all about variety and ridding oneself of the shackles of the worldly, after all. melting into one perfect whole, not knowing where he ends and his partner begins.

gale: we are all sensual vessels. illusory magic lets us sail farther, and feel more deeply.

gale: [..] i could use the weave to make us feel sensations beyond reckoning.

based on what we know about gale, these could be some of his kinks:

lots of praise (this is non-negotiable), sensation/temperature play (waxplay, electrostimulation/all the many perks magic has to offer), sensory deprivation, light restrictions and bondage, the occasional roleplay, katoptronophilia (self-explanatory), altered mental-states (hypnosis, psychedelics), orgasm control & denial, body worship, olfactophilia and given his propensity towards verbosity: narratophilia and some very inventive dirty talk. as for my own self-indulgent take: due to the recurring emphasis on hands during his romance, as well as his being the main tool in how he shapes and navigates the world: quirofilia.

nodecontext: flustered, standing in front of his romance partner in bondage gear. not necessarily uncomfortable with the bondage aspect, just trying to stay focused.

now, what are gale’s hard-limits?

gale, after the player received loviatar's blessing: your hide, your choice. not quite my cup of tea though.

while projecting your own kinks and fantasies onto fictional characters is fine and well, disregarding and ignoring the source material (and the character's stated boundaries) is another matter entirely. fanon!gale is rather ooc and very different from his canon portrayal, which is something that tends to irk me. although this remains a common fandom phenomenon.

personally, i don’t see gale as someone who enjoys pain of any kind, be it giving or receiving (with the exception of spanking and light choking, if a certain mood strikes. although it is kept mostly playful). contrary to what fandom may claim, having self-worth issues, being loquacious, emotionally expressive, and vulnerability-seeking (as well as being commonly perceived as arrogant and insufferable) doesn't automatically equal having repressed masochistic tendencies. he could be convinced to dip a toe into sadism, but only upon his partner’s insistence. although i doubt he himself would find enjoyment in that.

the same applies to degradation/humiliation. i doubt that a character who is still very much struggling with inherent self-worth issues and a general feeling of being defective/not worthy would derive sexual gratification from being degraded. yes, it can certainly be healing for some, but gale doesn’t strike me as someone who would find particular enjoyment in that. quite the contrary, actually. nor would he like to do the degrading for that matter (he would vehemently refuse. all he wants to do is sing your praises.) gale wouldn’t enjoy being leashed and/or collared in any way either. the prospect of being tied up or restricted is rather intriguing, cause it serves to center one’s vulnerability while also allowing for more intense sensations. anything that taps into the puppy play/slave territory tho? he would find it demeaning… and, quite frankly, silly.

gale is also not a voyeur, nor a cuck. the entire scene with the drow twins leans way too much into dub-con territory for my tastes. the only way you can get him to participate at all is by rolling a persuasion check with DC 25. in every other dialogue option, he immediately (and explicitly) declines. even if you do manage to pass the persuasion check, he is still very hesitant about participating.

gale: i might enjoy watching you tangled up with the drow, as long as i was five paces back.

he then immediately runs from the room, because sending a simulacrum in his place was the only way to somewhat remove himself from the situation while still being able to please tav. because of course he wants to please and clearly this is important to tav so he might just… have to discard his reservations and... just go through with it?!

gale: well i suppose it would do no good to back out now. let us begin this little anthropological study, if we must.

i am aware that fandom uses the fact that his “orb lit up in telltale excitement” as a justification that persuading him was the right choice, as well as confirmation that he was secretly into it and “just needed a little push" to explore his desires/get out of his comfort zone. that implication alone is very suspect and goes straight into the sort of logic abusers often use. you can be physically aroused by certain scenes, images, or sounds, even while being visibly uncomfortable with the presented scenario. it is a natural response that you can’t often control. which is what he is showing throughout the entire scene: discomfort. he was coerced into this situation, without any prior discussion or an opportunity to talk about his boundaries. furthermore, this is what he has to say if you approach him after the threesome:

gale: ahem. i hope you're not here to ask about our recent, erm, activities. i'd rather those were consigned to the footnotes of our romance, if it's all the same with you.

since he is strictly monogamous, any arrangement involving another person is also a no. he made this rather clear when tav sought him out after receiving halsin's proposal. him being monogamous isn't solely rooted in his trauma, it isn't something he has to “overcome” in order to heal, nor does it mean that their relationship is any less fulfilling. call him greedy, stubborn, or old-fashioned, but he cannot comfortably agree to that.

#baldurs gate 3 #bg3 #gale dekarios #gale of waterdeep #bg3 meta #now what do i even tag this as?#coercion cw #degradation tw #humiliation tw #will have to do some more thinking about the whole “gale has a breeding kink” take #as of now i don't believe that it is a kink nor a squick of his #as long as there's no actual risk of pregnancy involved that is #btw guys i love answering these #if you enjoy reading my long ass posts feel free to clutter my inbox #it speaks

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thecoolerliauditore · 3 months ago

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Very Long Post about Flower Husbands, Interpretation and Character vs Content Creator

This is a toxic flower husbands post. Btw.

I'm not sure when or why it happened but somewhere between limlife and the 24th joelshipping discourse cycle, "flower husbands is toxic" became a mainstream opinion on both here and traffictwt, usually sourcing Scott's ingame words and actions as evidence.

This interpretation has existed within the fandom for a fairly long time, although the words "toxic" and "abuse" were often omitted. Here's one example of a popular post that implied FH was less than ideal for Jimmy.

This does not mean the interpretation was widely accepted, however - hell, I even put this under a cut and warning for a reason. For every toxic FH believer that comes crawling out of the woodwork there comes another post defending their legacy.

For the record, despite what some threads on twt I've read seem to imply: There is nothing morally wrong with liking a mcyt ship regardless of what discomforts other people see in it. There is no explicit "wrong" way to interpret the series. There is no canon. It's fandom shit. It's not that serious.

However, I'm unfortunately abnormal about this series and possibly mcyt as a whole. So I'm forced to grapple with the fact that most non-toxic flower husbands posts seem to either self-contradict or come off as purposefully trying to incite some sort of culture war. As such, here's a list of common arguments I see proposed against the toxic flower husbands interpretation and why I personally don't find them convincing:

The CC Side of Things

Alot of anti-toxic flower husbands posts will accuse toxic flower husbands fans of disliking Scott, the content creator IRL guy, and often imply the interpretation is born out of homophobia -- usually through some variation of the phrase that the interpretation villainzes "the only openly gay CC in the series"

I take issue with this. While Scott is the only homosexual CC in the series, Cleo and Martyn have both been here since 3L and are both very openly queer. Gem has also since joined. You could argue that Scott is The Gayest but that's opening a can of worms in terms of queer discourse I don't think I want to go touching anytime soon.

Even if he was the Only Queer CC In the Series, applying different standards of fanon to Scott just because he is gay feels.. wrong to me. In the same way it's often argued that Jimmy does not need to be babied from his friendship dynamic, Scott too is a grown man who can simply choose to not look at fanart/fanfic if it upsets him, which from what I have personally observed, he hasn't shown any sign of feeling "uncomfortable" by more intimidating or villainous portrayals in the past.

Here's an example of him liking my art that did not paint him in a completely morally good light.

Why can't gay people be calculating? Controlling? Abusive? Why are we applying a higher standard of morality to the gay CC when the rest of the fandom is having the time of their life calling Grian a homophobe, a murderer, calling Scar an arsonist, calling Martyn a loser and pathetic, so on and so forth. Is telling a story about an abusive gay relationship any more "problematic" than telling a story about an abusive straight relationship?

I don't want to imply anything about peoples intentions but it feels sometimes, to me, that the "homophobia" card is being played out of some obligation to protect Scott and his brand rather than out of genuine concern for homophobia in the fandom -- because then, I ask, where is that energy for critiquing the homophobic humour prevalent in CC circles?

I've certainly heard Jimmy make jokes about Scott's sexuality in videos before. Where's the breakdowns of the infamous "I am a straight man and would like to be represented as such" incident from Pirates? Where's that energy for referring to shipping as a "bit" or Etho "gagging" at fanart of him and Bdubs?

I'd even go to argue, in terms of homophobic caricatures, Martyn and Iskall are both often more akin to the classic "gay guy in love with you who won't take no for an answer" stereotype than Scott has been. Martyn at least we know is queer, does it simply not matter in his case? Despite the fact that Martyn is very much more villainized than Scott is, to the point where his Limlife win is often portrayed as maniacal and cackling rather than with the solemn acceptance of Scott's LL win or the heartbreak and regret of Grian's 3L win? Please know that I personally Do Not find these portrayals homophobic (although the Iskall side of things has peeved me in the past), I'm just questioning why homophobia in the fandom seems to start and end with one guy only.

In addition: "internalized homophobia" is certainly a thing, but the vast majority of toxic FH fans in my circle at least are very much gay. We're on Tumblr. Fork found in kitchen. I've seen more than one person express that Scott's behaviour in one or several of the seasons was reminiscent of a toxic or abusive ex, or reminded them of some other trauma. It just seems unkind to me to claim "homophobia" and then turn and tell very gay people talking about their very gay experiences that they are somehow The Problem.

Jimmy Likes It, Though

Often in response to toxic flower husbands posts, people will cite the many times Jimmy has said in the past that he actively requests to be bullied, as part of his youtuber persona, since he finds it funny.

I've always found this kind of strange, since unlike the homophobia claims which 99% of the time are unambiguously about the content creators, this is often said in response to people talking about the series as a story with characters first and foremost.

While the area of interpretation differs for all of us, most people do not choose to include behind-the-scenes youtube talk as part of their storyline, since this detail changes Jimmy's character drastically and impacts the tone of the series overall. So what, they were dropped into a death game arena and Jimmy... told everyone they should bully him, cus he thought it'd be funny? Offscreen, with no interactions or monologue in the series itself even alluding to it? It's kind of awkward to work in and there's really no reason to if what you are invested in is viewing the series as essentially an ultra meta theatre performance.

Now, I personally do work in some out-of-series material into my headcanons and interpretation, so let's say that Is a canon part of Jimmy's character -- maybe he knew the group beforehand and this was their established dynamic, or he simply offscreened it all. Now we have to deal with the fact that this is interpretation and the unreliable narrator aspect of the series.

Jimmy (the character) might've asked for this, but under what circumstances? Why does he want this? Is this really healthy behaviour or is it self-destructive? I never see this explored and instead "Jimmy says it's okay" is treated as word of god, which I find to be painful to deal with when it comes to this series (I'll get to this later).

Even if we throw out the character side of things completely, there are perfectly valid issues to have with this dynamic. I've seen people debating the ethics of presenting this type of humour to a young impressionable audience, I've seen people who find it upsetting because it reminds them of their own toxic friendships. CCs have no authority here, Jimmy does not decide where peoples discomfort starts and ends.

I admit this is a far reach, but indulge me and imagine for a second if the roles were switched and the homophobic jokes about Scott were what was leaned in to but Scott claimed he "liked being bullied". Would that be okay too?

People are Allowed to Dislike the Real Guy, it's Okay

There are plently of reasons to dislike CC!Scott that aren't rooted in homophobia, I can assure you.

Let's put it this way: Scott does not have to read this post if he doesn't want to. In fact, he'd have to actively go out of his way to see it in the first place. The fanfic writers are not calling him an abuser in his youtube comments section. This fandom bullshit is not clogging his notifications.

I don't dislike CC!Scott, I don't love him either but I think he's just kind of your average kind of a loser youtuber guy. But even if someone truly did find him to be the most abhorrent human being to walk the earth, talking about it on tumblr should not hurt him. You often see reminders that Jimmy is a grown man who can speak up if he finds things in videos hurtful, and I'd go on to argue that the same logic is never given to Scott who is, also, a grown man who can control his internet usage.

It's all just Minecraft and jokes

The most buzzkill of all rebuttals, in my opinion, is this argument that toxic flower husbands is "taking it too seriously" and that they are just "friends playing Minecraft".

Like when people bring up Jimmy's behind the scenes request, this confuses me because it is brought up 99% of the time to rebut posts that treat the series as a storyline rather than a youtube playthrough. You can't have the grief of Scott losing his husband and Grian's despaired suicide and Pearl's sanity slippage and still acknowledge that it is all "friends playing minecraft".

In fact I'd even argue flower husbands is pretty non-toxic if you look at it Purely from a friends playing Minecraft perspective, but that is never the case. Scott's grief over Jimmy's death is treated with utmost seriousness, but Scott hitting Jimmy for not listening to him or wanting to "whittle him down to nothing" never is. It's this pick-and-choose that drives me insane more than anything else.

In addition to this, while I might be mistaken, it seems like most FH fans are not super accepting of RPF so I wonder what the intent is in the first place.

Furthermore, I do find it odd when it seems like the issue is that abuse specifically is "taking it too seriously" in a series where murder is pretty much the main theme. Adultery is mentioned multiple times in Double Life. Martyn even says the words "toxic relationship" in Double Life regarding himself and Cleo. It's clearly something that is referenced directly in the series and not any darker than what is already commonly accepted in fanon, so I don't understand why it's such a taboo and gets hit with the "no fun allowed" stick more than Scar being a cannibal serial killer.

With the same logic, I could argue that Scott was serious when he said Jimmy was useless, redundant, etc. and joking when he said he was sad his husband died but. I don't do that. Because that'd be insane

But Scott Loved Jimmy

Onto the stuff that's more purely in-universe, the argument is more uncommon now but I used to see alot of claims that flower husbands couldn't have been toxic because Scott "loved" Jimmy, usually citing the positive interactions the two do have throughout Third Life.

I think this is kind of difficult to talk about because, to me, it comes from a genuine misunderstanding of how abusive relationships work and what they look like. I won't lecture the reader on the theory behind abusive relationships and the trauma bonding cycle but I will say that the good does not balance out the bad and sometimes, context is severely lacking.

E.g. the cake. Late in the series Scott bakes a cake for Jimmy and hides it for him to find. This is a moment that I think is fascinating because it showcases both Scott's genuine care for Jimmy and the sadism he gets out of Jimmy's suffering at the same time. Jimmy is actively afraid of the cake, says to Scott that he thinks it's a trap and tries to get Scott to try it instead because Scott was still on green. Scott simply laughs and pushes Jimmy to try it, later mocking Jimmy for being scared at all.

Scott not taking Jimmy's fear seriously in this scene always seems to get cut out, or is paired with the usual insistence that it's okay because it's a "joke", and the cake itself is what is focused on.

Long story short: Abusers can love and care for their victims, abusers can be romantically attracted to their victims, abusers can feel trapped in the cycle just as much as the victim (e.g. the classic "look what you made me do" wifebeater excuse).

"Home?" "Home." and Word of God

In a similar vein, lots of people point to Scott's Third Life ending as proof their relationship had a happily ever after. This is one example of a trend I see within rebuttals where Scott's word is often treated as canonical Word of God.

Word of God, for those unaware, is the concept in storytelling of communicating definitive, unbiased information to the audience. Some iconic examples would be the Star Wars intro scroll, or any of the "once upon a time..." set-ups in fairy tales. Sometimes a character will temporarily possess Word of God and lose it later, such as Katara's intro narration in ATLA.

The subversion of Word of God would be Unreliable Narrator, where the person telling you the information is, in some way, not to be trusted. Some media play entirely on this concept, the Stanley Parable being one iconic example.

My personal interpretation of the traffic series is that every POV is unreliable narrator, with some being worse offenders (e.g. Scar and Martyn). I feel like it does a disservice to other POVs if you simply take one as Word of God, since some characters really do seem different until you see their side of things (some poignant examples would be Last Life Joel, Last Life Scar and Double Life Pearl). However, I must say again, this is not Correct nor is taking one POV as Word of God Wrong. That's just the rules I'm used to operating under.

So first off, operating within my rules: the "home?" "home." scene only appears in Scott's POV and is never acknowledged outside of that one scene. Jimmy clearly remembers the events of Third Life but never says a thing about him and Scott's shared afterlife (more on Jimmy's behaviour post-3L in a bit) and neither does Scott himself. To me this scene has always been either a tragic dying hallucination or an outright lie Scott invented to cope with the events of Third Life. I don't think there's any reason for me to believe the Jimmy in this scene is really Jimmy.

With that being said: taking the scene at face value as something that actually happened and it being a real afterlife Jimmy and Scott were sent to, there are still sinister elements that go entirely unacknowledged. Scott specifies that the flower valley was decorated to his plans, never mentioning Jimmy's, the same valley he previously insinuated he designed specifically so that he'd be "over" Jimmy.

Including Last Life and beyond as part of canon: this is very much not the "happily ever after" for Scott and Jimmy as. Well. They don't stay there and end up getting thrust into another death game where, again, this scene is never spoken about again and Jimmy only acts more and more antagonistic towards Scott as the seasons progress.

Disregarding Last Life and beyond: there is so much ambiguity that it's hard to take it all at face value, are there any other players in this place? Are Scott and Jimmy doomed to die knowing no one and nowhere else? Can Jimmy walk 15 minutes westward and come across the home of the guy who murdered him? Or is this a paradise where all the players can remain? What about Scott, is he going to go back to treating Jimmy the same way he did when they were both alive? How does he deal with the fact that his dead husband is suddenly back?

I do think this last one (taking Scott's POV as word of god + disregarding everything past this point) is the closest you're gonna get to an entirely non-toxic reading of this scene, but even then you'd have to work with the previous episodes of Scott hitting and berating Jimmy continuously.

Finally, one last issue I take with the "Scott's word = Word of God" interpretation is that it is, once again, inconsistent. If Scott ever says anything to contradict his "good husband" persona it's written off as a joke, but him saying that Pearl "cheated on him" is treated as if she really did commit adultery. There's also things that are just ignored, such as Scott saying "You guys (the audience) are obsessed with flower husbands, when really it's just been me and Pearl," in Secret Life -- words that would imply he really did not care that much for Jimmy.

"Nuance."

I see people just saying the word "nuance" or "scott isn't abusive it's more nuanced" like that's an actual sentence with worth really often. I'm sorry this section is harsh but "nuance" is not an argument, abusers can have nuance, real people are always nuanced and real people can be abusers. To imply that abuse cannot be "nuanced" is a little insulting to me.

Please just say "idgaf" and move on this isn't politics we don't need flower husbands centrism

Jimmy is the Abusive One

This one drives me insane but I see it fairly often and I. honestly don't know what to make of it. Sometimes it's coupled with an insistence that you can make anyone in the cast abusive if you try hard enough which... yeah I, I agree. We're agreeing here.

Seemingly most prominent during Limited Life, there's some claims that people are unfair towards Scott and that Jimmy is the real abuser, but I find the examples of his behaviour weak more often than not because they are usually 1. in direct response to something Scott did, 2. using psychic powers to sense characters motives (such as claiming he is guilt tripping people when he apologizes when nothing suggests that is the case) or 3. behaviour that not only is not toxic, but is very much harmless

Examples of the third one include things such as him refusing to say "love you" back to Scott during Limited Life and Secret Life, which he is not obligated to do. Some people insist he "owes" it to Scott somehow for Third Life which I find not only overestimating how much Scott aided Jimmy during Third Life (Jimmy Did die first, after all) but kind of. Dangerous? To say that you can somehow "owe" another person love and affection if they perform enough chores for you.

Another is the claim that Jimmy acts overly flirtatious with other men which hurts Scott which. I feel like needs an essay or two on slutshaming to make my point clear.

What really does me in is that this point is often paired with the insistence that Flower Husbands Would Be perfect if Jimmy just stopped "acting out" and did what Scott wanted him to. I don't really know how to explain why I find that kind of bad.

To me, it seems as if it's almost an admission that the further away from Third Life you get, the more clear it becomes that Jimmy does not have the highest opinion of Scott and in order for the non-toxic interpretation to still apply you need to stretch things, which often comes with the unfortunate side effect of saying some historically not awesome things about people like Jimmy.

Why Only Scott?

This often comes in hand with the first point about homophobia, with claims that Scott is the only one accused of being abusive to Jimmy, when others like Grian and Joel are the same if not worse.

This is another take that's strange to me because.. It's just untrue? I think it might be the shock of the culture shift of toxic fh that's spearheading this, but most of the smallidarity stuff I've seen, for example, come with some level of acknowledgement that Joel is a massive bitch. Sometimes it's through bully x victim AUs or storylines where he learns the error of his ways, but he's a bitch to Jimmy like. Most of the time.

Solidarian is a much lower sample rate ship for a character with a way too high sample rate but Grian characterization ranges from "pure evil watcher who feeds off suffering" to "previous abuse victim with trust issues". Very few times have I seen Grian presented as purely good in interpretations.

MOST of the jausage stuff I've seen is straight up sausage being. Weird.

There was a hilarious confessions blog anon awhile back that tried to claim shipping scarian was somehow morally wrong because Scar(???) abused Grian(???). It happens.

To add to this: very few of Jimmy's other romantic interests were literally calling himself his "husband" while hitting and berating him. The only other "canon" couple I can think of that come close is Jizzie and the way Lizzie will sometimes hit Joel, but that is primarily outside of the life series and their crimes against eachother in the series are always capstoned by almost cartoonish antics of "still love you, tho" (e.g. Joel putting Lizzie's stuff in a chest after she gets killed by a zombie or them choosing to team up Despite it All near the end of Last Life) -- I have more thoughts regarding them but this isn't the toxic jizzie post so I'll leave it at that.

Very, very rarely will I see someone who believes flower husbands is toxic but thinks joel/grian/fwhip/sausage/etc. are Completely fine. I also think it might just be that people talk about Scott more since Flower Husbands is the Iconic Ship and that gets numbers biased into people Only thinking Scott is bad for Jimmy.

It could also be argued that some of the Double Life pairings have the same level of toxic married couple energy that Flower Husbands does, but I'd argue that the soulbounds have enough variety that interpreting them as wholly romantic is difficult to do. There was also less hype overall with some of the most "toxic" pairings in DL, such as Impdubs or Box Boys, which makes it hard to find content for them -- I did a whole little liveblog of it calling Impdubs toxic as fuck. Y'all just didn't see it. Most of DL's toxic relationship themes also come from divorce quartet but admitting that those four have romantic tension in-universe gets you sniped in this economy.

To end: I talk about Scott more than the other guys because. I like him more. I like talking about people I like.

Conclusion (AKA who fucking cares)

I feel the need to restate my intro: no one actually fucking cares.

I've been talking about inconsistency in the "rules" of interpretation throughout this and I stick by my word but I think I'd have to mention that, in order to view this series as a storyline in the first place, you'd have to make some exceptions. I don't listen to the lines about youtube or viewers or when Grian talks about planning the series. I don't think it'd be Wrong to view Scott's POV as Word of God, disregard everything that implies he's a bad husband, not consider anything past "home?" "home." canon, so on. It would not be an interpretation I, some random asshole on tumblr, enjoy personally but if you're having fun you really should not give a shit about me.

However that doesn't mean people can't be rude or just straight up wrong or hypocritical when they claim toxic flower husbands interpretations are "homophobic" despite being antagonistic towards the gay people writing them in the first place (I've seen a ridiculous amount of middle school level namecalling for like no reason??) or claim that the interpretation is for people who "haven't watched their POV" as if a certain takeaway of a minecraft series presents you with some sense of superiority for understanding the cube guy harder than those horrible, horrible HATERS who think Scott killing himself over and over is sad to watch.

Oh and don't mention Pearl's role in all of this the only time I've seen someone try to bring her up I had to read it like five times and I'm still not quite sure I understand

#discourse #toxic flower husbands #random thoughts

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lord-squiggletits · 8 days ago

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Canon Pharma:

Has like one friend and that one friend is barely even nice to him

(That best friend is Ratchet who's notoriously coarse and more common folk aligned than anything)

Eyes the size of saucers with like 3 pairs of bags underneath them (looks like he hasn't slept in months)

Blatant signs of mental illness (mania)

Exaggerated theatrical air, constantly making dumb puns and jokes to the amusement of literally no one

Everyone hates him, like literally everyone

Has two defining traits one of which is being a massive supernerd (a really good doctor) the other of which is being neurotic (alleged "control freak")

Locked himself up for two months and came out with enough research notes to develop cures to 5 different terminal illnesses

Literally needed an alt mode exemption to get put in the intellectual class and be allowed to be a doctor bc he comes from an oppressed class

Somehow has less charisma than Ratchet who will snark/insult his patients to their face and openly say "damn I wish he would just die" a couple times

The MTMTE fandom 10 years ago, for some reason: "Ah yes, THIS GUY, yeah this guy is DEFINITELY the posh elitist snob who hates poor people out of all of the Autobots"

How in the fuck did anyone at any point in time look at the sopping wet disaster of a nerd from an oppressed social class that is Pharma and assume that this soaked kitten of a man was the best guy out of the whole cast to fanonize as a rich upper class socialite who loves decadence. Like what. That's not even an alternate character interpretation you just pulled an entire guy out of your brain like some malformed birth of Athena.

#squiggposting #pharma apologism #like out of all the ppl to cast as a posh snob they picked the most pathetic cringefail nerd out of the autobots #who's so unpopular that he literally fell off a cliff and no one cared enough to check that he was actually dead #like. that guy. that guy? that's the guy you think is an affluent socialite who looks down his nose at everyone? that guy.

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svsss-fanon-exposed · 11 months ago

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Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 12/∞

SHEN QINGQIU WAS BANNED FROM XIAN SHU PEAK

Rating: FANON - NEUTRAL

It is very common in fanfics for Shen (Jiu) Qingqiu to have been banned from visiting Xian Shu Peak due to his habit of visiting brothels.

This does not have basis in canon, however, it is not necessarily unlikely.

The only passage that directly mentions the relationship between the original Shen Qingqiu and Qi Qingqi is the following:

In the original work, Qi Qingqi and Shen Qingqiu had no real relationship and very few interactions. (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

While one reading of this may suggest that there was no relationship between them at all, another reading could say that there was no relationship between them that was discussed in PIDW.

It's known that Qi Qingqi doesn't have a high opinion of Shen (Jiu) Qingqiu:

Qi Qingqi wrinkled her nose. “Zhangmen-shixiong, do you actually hope he’ll remember and recover his previous…character and conduct?” (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

but her opinion of him doesn't seem to be too different than any of the other peak lords.

However, it would not be out of character for her to ban someone considered lecherous from Xian Shu Peak. Qi Qingqi is known to take protective measures, such as suggesting the following during a meeting:

Fourth, Xian Shu Peak requests permission to fortify and increase the height of their fences, and petitions for their fences to be electrified. (7 Seas, Ch. 28)

Despite this, Shen Qingqiu is still her senior so it would be unlikely for her to ban him directly or formally. Nor would Xian Shu Peak's disciples be forbidden from speaking or interacting with him. However, it may be possible that she requested he not visit, and that he agreed to this, thus creating an informal ban. It is also possible that Qi Qingqi, with her fierce and direct personality, may have instituted a ban regardless of seniority.

The only other thing we know is that Shen (Yuan) Qingqiu does not often visit Xian Shu Peak himself, instead sending Luo Binghe:

In the past, Shen Qingqiu had given Luo Binghe quite a few miscellaneous errands. Thus, one could often have found him on Xian Shu Peak. From time to time he’d gone there to deliver a letter, distribute a notice, invite someone over, or borrow something. (7 Seas, Ch. 22 - worth noting that this is from Bing-ge's perspective, so it is unsure whether this refers to Shen (Yuan) Qingqiu, or the original Shen Qingqiu. However, the characteristic of "giving LBH errands" seems much more in line with SY!QQ, so that is how I am interpreting it)

However, this isn't really support for a potential ban. It could be due to Shen Qingqiu wishing to avoid any potential accusations and/or distancing himself from that reputation, or it could be because he wishes to facilitate interactions between Luo Binghe and the members of his future harem, or just because he liked to send Luo Binghe to complete as many tasks as possible. There are any number of reasons for this.

Post canon, it is clear that there is no ban, as Qi Qingqi herself suggests that Shen Qingqiu visit Xian Shu Peak:

“What do you mean buy?” Qi Qingqi asked. “Do you not know how to use what we have? Just go to Xian Shu Peak and ask a few jiejie and meimei to make some outfits for him.” (7 Seas, Ch. 28)

But by this point, enough time has passed that it doesn't mean much, and if a ban existed, it may have been lifted.

While this is something Shen Qingqiu would have likely mentioned if true, it is possible that it wasn't mentioned in PIDW, or was only mentioned as a one-off like that Shen Qingqiu forgot about-- there are many different possibilities that could be used to argue in favor or against this headcanon.

In the end, there is not enough information to say whether or not something like this would be possible-- however, it is never mentioned in canon, so any relationship between Shen (Jiu) Qingqiu and Xian Shu Peak is up to speculation and headcanon.

#fanon exposed #svsss #qi qingqi #shen qingqiu #shen jiu

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gallus-rising · 4 months ago

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opening this with the obligatory "AUs are fun" and "you can do whatever you want forever" i'm talking about the canon relationship and characterization vs a very common fanon. so without further ado i present:

Dimple Was A Friend: A Friendship Manifesto

the fanon in question is "Dimple as Mob's Dad/Uncle figure". in general i'm tired of the fandomized “Found Family” but in this particular case it totally fucks over an entire series spanning character arc and removes the interesting nuance from Dimple and Mob's relationship.

one of Dimple's big hang-ups is that he thinks all of his relationships have to be hierarchical in some way, but broccoli arc’s whole thing is that he actually wants someone to respect and acknowledged him as an equal.

normal humans can't see spirits at best and are terrified of them at worst. most other spirits we see have degraded to mindless monsters. espers more or less treat spirits as animals, specifically as pests or pets. spirits are dehumanized to the point that Matsuo doesn't seen any problem treating Human Man Mogami like a particularly unruly pet. so if Dimple can't be treated like an equal then he can at least try putting himself at the top of the food chain. no one respects him as a person, so he'll make them respect him.

Mob is in a very special place re: attitudes towards spirits off the bat. he's grown up with the supernatural as a normal part of life and sees no significant difference between humans and spirits. at first is doesn't seen like he's treating Dimple with any sort of respect, but in retrospect it's exactly the sort of thing Dimple wants. Mob doesn't treat him like a pest, he treats Dimple like an annoying guy that's following him around. even as their friendship develops Mob doesn't treat Dimple as though he's become useful, he trusts Dimple like he would Reigen or Ritsu or any other friend in a dangerous situation.

but despite his newfound Friendship Emotions Dimple still hasn't broken out of his old mindset. there must be an inherit hierarchy to the world, and while he can't afford to lose his spot, maybe he can trust someone to be by his side.

Dimple himself repeatedly states in the broccoli arc he wants them to become co-cult leaders. he doesn't want Mob to join him as a subordinate or apprentice or anything like that, he want's Mob to join him as an equal. father/son and uncle/nephew relationships are inherently hierarchical! that doesn't necessary make them bad, but it's not want Dimple wants.

if we accept that Dimple is a father/uncle figure to Mob then the broccoli arc concludes with Dimple realizing he doesn’t want authority over people in a malicious way, he wants authority in a nurturing way. not only is that still an unequal relationship, nurturing is definitely not a word that comes to mind when discussing Dimple.

it also means we must accept that Mob sees Dimple as some kind of authority figure which is simply not true. Mob never treats him with that elevated level of respect and even gets confused that Dimple thinks their relationship is weighted in one way or the other. all in all the father/uncle interpretation is straight up out of character for both of them and downplays mp100’s emphasis on friendship.

and then it creates a second problem. since Mob & Dimple have been shoved into the Family Box that means by order of elimination Reigen is Dimple’s closest friend (or more commonly romantic partner) compared to Mob for most of the mange Reigen doesn't really treat Dimple with the same human-to-human attitude. he frequently makes jokes about Dimple being a like pet, which to Reigen is just normal snark, but probably hits Dimple harder than he realizes for reasons stated at the start.

hell during the separation arc Dimple took Mob’s side and was perfectly fine ditching Reigen even tho he didn’t really have to. he was even mean about it!

during this short exchange they're both antagonizing each other but i feel like it's notable Dimple only leaves after Reigen starts shit talking Mob. Reigen is right that Mob won't use his powers in normal day to day life and Dimple knows he's right. Dimple's been following Mob around this whole time watching life a perfectly average life. and then Reigen, no psychic defenses, charismatic guy with an established following, offers Dimple join him! oh boy is that an easy situation to take advantage of!! (and also of an example of how Dimple's started to lose sight of his "villainous schemes", but that's a whole other tangent lol)

Dimple only reaccepts Reigen into his social circle after witnessing him and Mob reconcile. by downplaying Mob and Dimple’s friendship Reigen becomes Dimple’s closest connection by default which is just not true for most of the manga, but, and i'm about to have a grouchy aromantic moment here, most people are fine with it because Shipping. now Reigen and Dimple can be Mob’s dads together :]

the power of Reigen being a fan favorite typically causes people to elevate him, sometimes even in scenarios he's not all that involved in, but please allow me to point out how amatonormativity plays into this particular reading 😒 Dimple Is Mob's Dad/Uncle doesn't always go hand in hand with ekurei of course, but i see it happen often enough to be a trend. even though a family-esque relationship should logically still emphasize their personal bond just as much as a platonic one, in this case it still typically comes with shipping, and by extension Reigen, tacked onto it.

mean aro moment over. if it sounded like i'm dissing ekurei i promise i'm not! i like it just as much as the next guy! it's just that, like all ships in every fandom, sometimes it gets pushed to the detriment of other relationships and even characterization.

but anyways. in closing: guys. they literally call each other friends.

that's it! thank you for reading my rant ❤

if you've made it this far i wanna peel back behind the scenes for a sec (because i've been trying to write this thing for so long orz) and let you know the term "Friendship Manifesto" is a play on ye' olde fandom Ship Manifestos, which i think we need to bring back in new and exciting ways. classic shipping manifestos. friendship manifestos. qpp manifestos? enemies manifestos?? should we bring back the term "drift compatible" or perhaps even the quadrant shipping system???? we're not taking proper advantage of this meta format. we need to have fun and go crazy with it.

#mp100 #shigeo kageyama #ekubo #dimple #*furious pecking*#boy and his ghost

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saintsenara · 6 months ago

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what are ur thoughts on all the young dudes man i gotta know

i've never read it, and i can't really see any situation in which i will. not only am i wolfstar-ambivalent, i'm also wizards-knowing-loads-about-muggle-pop-culture-ambivalent - so i'm very much not the target audience.

[although i'm not "what's going on in the 1970s"-ambivalent by any means, so there's that.]

but i suspect anyone who reads this blog regularly knew that - and so i also suspect [even though i wouldn't dare to assume this of you and your intentions in asking this, anon] that it might be presumed that i'm going to pop off about several of the phenomena all the young dudes has set into motion...

and sure, the contemporary marauders subfandom is not a space i'm interested in spending any time in - which is why i don't - but i think it's nonetheless worth saying something in defence of it.

all the young dudes deserves more credit than i think it gets in the fandom more widely - especially in those bits of the fandom which are more interested in canon compliance and canon coherence - for being a genuine pop-culture phenomenon. all corners of the fandom have benefitted from this - i guarantee that huge numbers of people who have returned to the harry potter fandom since 2020 have done so because they've read it [or, at the very least, heard of it], and i also guarantee that many of those people have gone on to make a home for themselves in spaces which seem to have very little in common with the marauders subfandom [such as canon-compliant jily or pro-snape spaces]. many of the things it does - especially the integration of muggle pop-culture into its worldbuilding - have clearly influenced how plenty of authors approach their own work, even if that work is otherwise removed from it in vibe. and its aesthetic is all over the non-fic aspects of fandom too - every "canon-compliant" moodboard or edit or playlist i've ever seen would fit well into the atyd universe. i think it doesn't hurt to acknowledge its influence - it doesn't mean that an author can't disagree with its approach.

[or: my view on all the young dudes is very similar to my view on taylor swift. i've never listened to a single one of her albums, i'm not sure i could name more than about five of her songs - and i don't think the five i can name are any good, i sometimes see flashes of the inter-swiftie discourse and it's like reading a text in a language i can only half speak - but i would be a fool to dismiss her broader pop-culture influence, including on musicians i do follow more closely, or the fact that the fandom which surrounds her is both sincerely interesting, not least from an anthropological perspective, and something in which people i like and respect participate.]

i also don't think the divisions between the marauders subfandom and other spaces are as clear-cut as is often made out. and i think that all the young dudes often gets used as a stick with which to beat this point - particularly because people in the marauders subfandom are frequently accused of not having read the books, and elevating atyd's interpretation of characters [especially sirius and remus] and events over the seven-book series.

that the subfandom elevates fanon and headcanon over canon is a legitimate point. but i think we should all get a fucking grip and recognise that this can disinterest us - or even annoy us - and still not be something any of us should think is that deep.

after all, like anyone, i've encountered people in fandom who write unrecognisable versions of characters, are completely resistant to the idea that their interpretation isn't correct, and believe that it's evidence of deep-seated prejudice to pair their faves with different people... and every single one is someone who believes that their approach is meticulously canon-compliant.

or - as the old adage goes - "people who live in glass subfandoms shouldn't throw stones at roadman remus".

#asks answered

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sukimas · 1 year ago

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I feel like I'm about to do something monumentally stupid by asking this, but, what was truly going on back then? I've always been on the periphery on purpose even as I slowly wormed into the franchise by 2021 just to avoid the worst of it, but the 2010s are a complete blank outside of faint feelings.

A lot less fluency in Japanese ("moonrunes") on the whole. Translators were few and far between, and many of them only translated things that personally interested them (granted, translation today is similar, it's just that there are a lot more of 'em). With this, and without the Touhou games on steam, and with Touhouwiki much smaller (it was founded in 2009, as opposed to Wikipedia's 2001), access to canon material was more difficult. There was also a lot more wilful ignorance of canon, too- and equivocation between what was popular canon and fanon due to this (because "nobody cares about Touhou for the games".) As translators became more common and the games became more widely available (culminating with HSiFS being released on Steam) there was a bit more of a push of of "hey, you know, the canon is actually pretty interesting and isn't at all like the fanon? the fanon is fine, it's fun, but it's not the same thing". There was a lot of pushback to this, though- use of the "Everyone has their own Gensokyo" quote from a rather famous doujin in contexts where it didn't really fit (everyone has their own Gensokyo, but claiming that that is ZUN's Gensokyo is something different entirely).

And then Alternative Facts in Eastern Utopia released, creating a VERY hard line between canon enjoyers and canon ignorers (due to political splitting that was already present but increased significantly). It's cooled off some since then, but a lot of people new to Touhou are completely unaware of the absolute battle it was to even discuss canon material. Many of them see older fans' insistence on "X isn't canon" as just being annoying spoilsports- and while some of that may be true, headcanon and theory aren't intended to be dissuaded for the most part. What people are generally trying to head off is genuine falsehood, which was absolutely pervasive for decades in EN fandom. Now, that's not to say that there isn't annoying fanon on JP side, but it's generally more "this is my interpretation" than "ZUN SAID NONE OF THE GIRLS ARE GAY".

(Which is, by the way, one of the common arguments that the pro-fanon side used to use back in the day. Interestingly enough. This is primarily due to the shipping side of Touhou fandom being very well aware that few of these relationships come anywhere close to canon, while the fanoneer side was distinct in that they believed their interpretations WERE canon- or at least as important as it. It's also a lie, by the way- it was a quote from a weeb version of The Onion.)

#touhou #probably inducing hell by putting that tag on here but whatever. let's rip and tear until it is done.#war stories

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raayllum · 10 months ago

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More Than Anyone or Anything

or why I think Callum is Like That: The Meta.

AKA because I realized that while I've talked about Snake Boi Callum and why I view him that way before, it was mostly in regards to explaining his canon traits that aren't usually very disputed. These being:

His sometimes obsessively dangerous qualities, specifically surrounding magic (1x04, 1x05, 2x04, 4x01, 4x02, 4x04)

His ambitious side (man heard from the one magical 'expert' he knows that humans just flat out cannot do primal magic naturally, said fuck that, and got it in a week after one week of practice)

His temper (1x01, 1x06, 1x09, 2x07, 3x08, 4x01-4x04, 5x01, 5x05, 5x08)

His ruthlessness (turning on Viren the second Ezran is in danger despite trusting him for years beforehand; his attitude towards Claudia in 2x07 after she's likewise betrayed him; smiling when killing corrupted soldiers in 3x09 even when Ezran expresses grief and Janai expresses horror when she was facing a similar scenario during the timeskip; arguing to take the violent route in 5x05 whereas Ezran and Rayla pick the more preventative one).

Therefore, for this meta, I will be focusing specifically on why I interpret Callum as Selectively Loyal to the point of being willing to help free Aaravos in order to spare, specifically, Ezran and Rayla's lives (and not necessarily anyone else's, such as Zym and Soren).

Strap in boys — this is going to be a long one.

Disclaimers: As always, this is just my opinion, and an interpretation being popular in fanon does not automatically mean it's better or more valid / rooted in canon than any other kind of (less popular? maybe common) interpretation. I will also be making it clear when I'm drawing on sections/snippets from supplementary material (TDP short stories, novelizations, and Tales of Xadia) but give that it's supplementary material, feel free to take it with the ultimate grain of salt.

Related Metas (that's worth reading if you're interested in other Snake Boi aspects that are not going to be heavily touched on here):

Callum's temper (S1-S3) and how it links to him typically feeling helpless to fix/aid his loved ones, causing him to lash out even sometimes at them

How Callum operates differently from Ezran and Rayla (S1-S4), but very well embodied I believe by the scene in 5x05 where Ez and Rayla side with the "violence as a last resort" option and Callum does not

How Callum views Zym and the egg in Arc 1 differently from Ez and Rayla, or how Callum sees things as tools and why he gets fixated on / what he projects onto objects (much like Viren with the mirror)

Differing Priorities for Callum and Rayla in TTM, in which Rayla only engages in their scheming because she thinks Viren is a threat to the whole world, and Callum comes up with their scheme because he just wants to give her closure

What does the Trio's Tales of Xadia's bios actually mean? (this one will be touched on the most down below, so feel free to skip unless you want a more detailed refresher)

Specifications:

If you're someone who doesn't see Callum this way, but you're genuinely interested in reading a differing perspective, please read on. If you're someone who doesn't necessarily see Callum this way, but you're curious and/or on the fence, please read on. If you'd like to add your own thoughts to this post, feel free to add on if it's in support; if it's differentiation, please make your own post (I'll engage respectfully with if it I want to).

If you're someone who is only going to get upset with my viewpoint, please curate your internet experience and do not read this post. If you're only going to make thinly veiled meta rebuttals of this post in a rude way ("even though some people may think...", linking to this post, general assholery), please do not read this post. You would be far happier if you were less obsessed with an opinion I've held for 5+ years and months & months before you likely joined the fandom. i just want to chill in my corner, please do not chuck pillows at me for doing what I've always had a good time doing that doesn't hurt anyone.

With all of that out of the way, let's get into it

What do I mean when I say selective loyalty?

Loyalty has always been an interesting trait to me, simply because in the bulk of storytelling, it is a necessary character trait for a story to function. One of the biggest things that a character can do to be disliked is be a traitor towards someone that trusted them, and if a character is too disloyal, they can be hard to engage with due to a lack of consistency. Characters who start out loyal to no one/nothing inevitably have arcs, provided they stick around in the story long enough, of garnering loyalty for someone (usually found family loved ones > a cause) in order for them to be able to progress as a character. We want characters to bond, and we want them to be there for each other, and if they're not at all, we want to see what happened or what other bonds they might form with other people. If not loyal, we want to see why they're working with someone at the very least.

Therefore, everyone in real life or in fiction has some elements of 'selective loyalty,' since we all have people (the people we know and love) we are more loyal to, fundamentally, than others (strangers / people don't know at all). It's just a natural normal thing to adhere more to valuing and looking after the people in your immediate circles over people you don't know at all, even if that doesn't mean we're void of caring about strangers, either. Our empathy or compassion, as well as the social structure of our living units and lives, are more cohesion for caring for strangers than it is for competing with strangers or being wholly indifferent.

For a quick overview of the way selective loyalty can work, I'm actually going to talk about Claudia quickly, and her internal hierarchy. While she is loyal to the princes ("Their Dad is dead and you lied about it. Plus they're our friends. It's wrong") to the point of that possibly being an opportunity for severance, initially, with her father ("Careful, if you tell the truth you will lose her"), Claudia's loyalty to her father ultimately trumps her loyalty to the princes, and even to her family with Soren.

For the opposite approach of selective loyalty, I'm going to talk about Rayla, who regularly bails out strangers (the boys in 1x03, Phyrrah in 2x07) and enemies (Bait as a frenemy in 1x05, Nyx in 3x05) as well as the people she grows to love (the boys on regular intervals). She and Runaan, as is Soren, are all willing to put their perceived missions/duties not only above but in direct opposition to their familial loyalty / family ties.

Callum, TO ME, is not, and here's why.

When I say that Callum is selectively loyal, I mean that there is ultimately nothing he will put above Ezran and/or Rayla at any interval with very few exceptions (aka if they're still breathing, he's still going to be fighting for them). This is for a few reasons.

I'm going to talk more about why it's Ez and Rayla specifically later, but for now I want to talk briefly about how they factor into his decision making and what see of them from people who have lost his loyalty.

Despite knowing and having trusted Viren for the bulk of his life ("Claudia! Lord Viren! Anyone!"), as soon as Callum learns that Viren has put Ezran substantially at risk ("Two [targets]? What do you mean?" "I'm here for the king, and I'm also here for his son, Prince Ezran") Viren is fucking Dead To Him.

It's not just that Viren lied, it's that Viren's lies and choices put Ezran in danger, and that's just not acceptable. We see this happen again with Claudia in S2, even after Callum defending her and trying to give her chances. She lied, yes, but she scares Ezran and attacks Rayla again, and that's the breaking point.

When you threaten the people he loves, when you scare them, if he trusted you, he will never look at you the same way again. Any loyalty he felt towards you will snap and snap hard, permanently, like a wishbone.

Callum loves and cares for other people. He loved and cared for Viren and Claudia. But unlike Ezran, who is willing to give Claudia a chance in 3x09 to the point of running after her, helping hand extended, and unlike Rayla, who still adamantly loves Runaan even after their fight and with no hint of change from him, Callum does not take other people hurting his family lightly, at all.

He loves and cares for Amaya, and Soren, and Harrow. But even Harrow, his father, is someone he's willing to put on the backburner — despite having an offered chance from Rayla to save him — in order to do what Harrow asked and what Callum's first instinct is: to look after his brother, because it is fundamentally unsafe for Ezran to stay at the castle for any longer, and he knows it.

Callum knows what the egg might mean, but he does not follow Rayla out the dungeon door blindly. He runs only after Ezran does, and only after Claudia might hit Ezran with lightning. Then he acts. Then he makes a choice. Because his loyalty to his brother outweighs after other substantial relationship in his life, at this point, but it doesn't necessarily stay that way.

Inner circle

In Tales of Xadia, all the characters are given values. While the values have more generic explanations (i.e. Callum's highest one, Liberty, is labelled as, "Have you ever resisted the control of others? This value is about freedom and autonomy. You’re motivated by a world without oppression or suppression") the characters individual bios help offer more clarity on their specifics. Callum's, specifically, states, "I am beholden to my inner circle, not some silly kingdom." Ouch, from Katolis' crown prince and Ezran's heir apparent.

It is, of course, important to not take this trait entirely literally. If Callum truly valued his own personal autonomy over everything else, he would've taken Finnegrin's deal in 5x08 in a second if all he wanted as his own freedom. Instead, Callum's highest value being Liberty is far more about his place with Freedom as a Theme more than something he wholly actively desires; again, we see in 5x08 he's willing to risk more of his freedom by doing dark magic in order to save Rayla.

There are things that Callum values more than his own personal freedom and there are things that he values more than magic (2x04: "Callum, you're being an idiot! Why would you do that? You can't risk your life to learn magic") vs throwing himself off the top of the Storm Spire at the slimmest chance of, once again, saving Rayla.

That said, this value and quote is still very useful, as it does then, beg the question, of who exactly is Callum's inner circle? Well...

Ezran and Rayla are the most important people in the entire world to him. Full stop. There is nothing he will fundamentally put above them. He only stays behind in 1x06, thereby not sacrificing the egg by proxy, because Rayla points out "We'll need to be up here to pull [Ezran] out." Even when he was stressing about whether they'd gotten to the Sea of the Cast Out on time, the second Rayla showed a hint of major discomfort/potential self-deprecation, he was offering to get back into the goddamn boat to comfort her ("I'm getting out—" "No. I can't do it, but you have to"). He's hesitant to go into town to find a vet for the egg because "We will definitely find some elf hating humans," pouting further when Rayla brushes him off, and flings himself off his balcony when he thinks there's even a chance that Ezran isn't okay into what he knows would subsequently be a trap. He's the first to say that they need to leave Rex Igneous' chambers after protecting Ezran from falling rocks with his own body, and the last to actually leave, almost being crushed by rocks himself because he's so committed to standing there and watching Rayla leave.

He equates Rayla's love for him with his love for Ezran on Day Nine (2x03: "I couldn't tell him. And I understand why you couldn't tell me. When you care about someone, it's hard to hurt them. Even when what you're saying is the truth.")

Hell, he even forgets that Sol Regem is there in 3x01 because he tunnel visions on Rayla needing his help so intensely she has to point out the massive ton dragon actively trying to kill them to him.

He's a nurturer, a fixer, a solution seeking. He wants to make you feel better ("See it's working right? Don't you feel a little better?"), he is a kind reassuring word ("Don't be so hard on yourself, Ez") always, he thinks of your problems even when you don't (Rayla's binding in 1x07), he will lay his life down for you without question ("I am Prince Ezran"), he will get mad at you for treating yourself poorly (3x04, like almost all of S4), he dotes, he notices, he will compromise his beliefs for you ("Could he really bring himself to go through with his plan? What if he didn’t succeed? What if he compromised his beliefs and it was all for nothing? [...] But Rayla was in trouble"—S2 novelization).

You mean everything to him: "Rayla's strong, thin arms wrapped around him meant everything" (S2 novelization of the hug scene in 2x04) / "You're my brother, and you mean everything to me" (2x06).

You are his whole world.

If you're part of his inner circle, and not everybody is, so let's talk about it.

[ Callum, excluding Claudia and Soren from their support system, even though the siblings haven't yet betrayed them, while including Rayla, even though he and she haven't made up yet. ]

What about Soren and Zym?

As stated before, Callum's selective loyalty does not mean he doesn't care about other people in his life, such as Claudia (in the past) and people like Amaya, Soren, and Zym in the present. Merely that, slightly like Claudia, Callum does have an internal hierarchy of care — the way you might have friends vs best friends — of who takes priority, and we see S1, S4, and S5 in particular demonstrate this quite well.

As already stated, Callum prioritizes Ezran over the egg in 1x06 and is held back emotionally by Ezran fuelled logic and physically by Rayla. In 1x07, he doesn't want to risk going into town — even to potentially find help for the egg — because of his last disastrous experience with humans and Rayla. In 2x04, Callum is perfectly happy to walk around a sea to let Rayla avoid her fear of water, and approximately 5 minutes later is getting on Ez and Rayla's case for goofing off (with Rayla's thinly veiled and fallible disguise) because "Sometimes getting someplace slightly faster is important, like right now." Wasn't quite the tune he was singing earlier, now was it? For Zym, we see this again in 3x04 — Rayla is having a breakdown, so she has more of an excuse, but Callum should conceivably be much more clear headed, and he still tunnel visions into leaving Zym alone with Nyx leading to the theft. Likewise in 4x07 when the group thinks Zym might be gone, Ezran is the one who states, "I'm not leaving without him," and Ez and Rayla are both pretty broken up about it; Callum is sad, for sure, but he mostly focuses on taking care of Ezran and placing a hand on his shoulder.

Then you have Amaya, who Callum loves dearly, but isn't particularly torn up over not trusting or lying to (1x04, 5x03) in spite of being close to her, and isn't as vexed even when he thinks that maybe something bad has happened.

Even when Callum thinks it was bad, and potentially very bad ("The way Gren was talking, I thought maybe the world was ending or something!") he doesn't get angry and he doesn't get demanding. This is very different from how he responds to Ezran and Rayla being potentially in danger or just in trouble.

Which on that note also highlights another key importance between how Callum treats Rayla, in particular, versus how he treats Soren. Now, you could argue that Callum in 5x01 has emotionally matured/healed further than he has in 4x01 prior to Rayla's return, and that would be perfectly fine to do. However, it doesn't change the fact that just the hint of Soren keeping a secret — even before Callum thinks, at all, that it's about Ezran — makes him wait on the battlements to coldly and sternly interrogate Soren about it. With Soren, he demands,

C: I know this — the ties are true as the ocean is deep [...] It means I trust her. Unconditionally. Let her go. Now. R: About your key and the bow. I can explain. C: No, I meant what I said. You don't have to explain or justify anything to me.

Even when Rayla engages in actually shady behaviour — omitting the truth if not outright lying, stealing his key, and retrieving a painfully poignant weapon — Callum doesn't get mad, at all. Soren just implied he was potentially keeping a secret from Callum at the council meeting and lowkey got his ass handed to him, with Callum literally shoving him out of his way and needing Corvus' help to coral the angry step-mage.

Furthermore, even when Soren goes missing in 4x06, although concerned, Rayla is by far the most broken up about it. Ezran is optimistic because he's, well, Ezran; Rayla is torn because even though she doesn't know Soren that well, she feels like it was 100% her fault he's gone missing and has possibly gotten hurt; and Callum, well... mostly focuses about how she feels about it, and less so about his actual friend (because if Ezran or Rayla are emotionally hurting, they will take priority to him). He's focused on making sure she feels better.

Again: Callum loves Amaya, and Zym, and Soren. He loves them dearly. He wants to and does protect them. He can and will take care of them. But push come to shove, they're not in his inner circle — he doesn't trust them the same way, and he doesn't focus on them the same way, because when it comes to his inner circle, he loves them

More Than Anyone or Anything

So after seeing Callum like this from S1 onwards, you can imagine I was pretty thrilled upon opening up his bio in Tales of Xadia — which seems to be the most 'canon' of the supplementary materials thus far (scenes and ages are changed in the novelizations; timelines get a little wonky in the prequel graphic novels; some designs from "Callum's Spellbook" ended up being different; the art book is full of beautiful concepts, of course, that never understandably got off the ground) except perhaps for Though the Moon — said the quiet part out loud. Not only does TOX have plenty of lore drops and hints at future arcs that are coming to fruition (Aaravos' connections to Elarion, mentioning the Great Bookery of Lux Aurea and Leola, etc) but they did something very interesting when it came to what values which character had. There's some leeway as this is very much an Arc 1 reading (probably most clearly seen in Soren's bio) but there is still plenty of bleed over into Arc 2.

Now, as I said before, we don't want to take the Values too literally. As talked about previously, a lot of the characters highest values seem to be things their arcs are set up to thematically test rather than being a 1:1 what they value the most. But I feel like you can glean a good deal from them, so let's look at the trio:

EZRAN:

Justice — 10: I expect the best of people and try not to become an agent of cruelty.

Devotion — 8: All creatures—regardless of origin—deserve love and appreciation.

Liberty — 8: I value the liberty of everyone, sometimes even more than my own.

RAYLA:

Devotion — 10: Love and devotion compel and define me.

Justice — 8: At great personal cost I will strive for what’s right.

Liberty — 8: My only allegiance is to my heart and those who know it.

CALLUM:

Liberty — 10: I’m beholden to my inner circle, not some silly kingdom.

Devotion — 8: I value those close to me more than anyone or anything.

Mastery — 8: I aspire to know the great wonders of every primal magic.

Out of all the more 'heroic' characters listed in the handbook (Amaya, Janai, Aanya) only Callum and Lujanne do not have Justice, "Have you ever been compelled to fix what’s wrong? This value is about balance, virtue, and reward. You’re motivated by adherence to fairness and what you think is right" among their top 3. Each have it at a 6, instead, which the guide labels as, "This matters, but so do many things" and is the second lowest ranking a value can have. None of the main cast have any value at the highest ranking, 12, either, to help indicate scale perhaps.

Devotion, then, is the one we're currently the most interested in for Callum, since as said before, while the general value descriptions are useful, the specific ones help show more indication. Devotion is referred to in Tales of Xadia as, "Have you ever been obligated to others? This value is about duty, faith, and friendship. You’re motivated by the bonds of loyalty and your love for others."

Although devotion is Rayla's highest value, her devotion value makes no indication of who/what she is Devoted to. Whereas Ezran's reflects his deep love and appreciation towards animals (hence saving the baby glow toads in S5) and Callum's we'll get to in a moment, Rayla's we're not privy to. Instead, we can look at her Liberty value, as it states that her allegiance is to her heart ("My heart for Xadia") and to her loved ones (her friends, her family). Much of her arc is therefore feeling torn between what she thinks/feels her duty is versus what her heart is telling her, indicated by her letting Marcos go in 1x01 and the subsequent fallout.

We can also see her state this more clearly in Through the Moon, in which Callum is the one primarily concerned with her parents ("he’s stuck worrying about her parents. About what happened to Runaan. She can’t move on, not without knowing the truth of what happened [...] I hope you find your parents. And Runaan"), versus Rayla going along with the plan, "Callum, listen. Soren was worried about Viren too. Worried that we never found a body. We need to know what happened to Viren. He’s a threat to the whole world! This might be the only way to be sure he’s actually gone! [Upon entering the Portal...] Okay. Viren. My parents. Runaan" and then 5x01 spells it out even more directly.

R: Callum and Ezran need me. A great evil is trying to return to Xadia and we have to stop it, at any cost. I think this is what you would want me to do. I love you, and I haven't forgotten about you. I never will. [...] It hurts me to know they're trapped like this. It's agonizing. But our mission comes first. The world is in danger, and you can trust me to stay focused.

Now this makes sense, as Rayla having this push and pull has not only been a defining feature of her arc most seasons, but is ultimately what's going to be the most challenged when the Callum possession plotline rears its head. Does she kill/incapacitate the man she loves in order to protect the world, or does she fight to get him back no matter what, even if that may lead to ruin and chaos? (I'm hoping for the second one, but I will eat either up, lemme tell you.) Does she finally refuse to sacrifice, or does she barrel on hoping she'll only have to sacrifice herself?

The reason I bring Rayla up at all is because I think it provides a good contrast to how Callum operates, specifically in 5x04, in which case he reaffirms his devotion ("I would do anything for you") and then risks everyone's lives by staying late at the Great Bookery, even when Rayla says three times that well, this isn't the time: "Not yet, Callum... Believe me, I want to do something, but... Callum, we need to leave!"

Rayla cares about everyone, and is willing to risk her life for enemies and for strangers. She will abandon her mission for the world in favour of looking after individuals because they need help, regardless of what it asks of her: "Live or die, this dragon goes home." (And because she believes Ezran and Callum can accomplish the mission without her, but that's a post for another day.) As Bloodmoon Huntress makes explicit, as Ethari says:

Who I love, where I love, what I love, are all specific. But to Runaan and those like your parents... love is rooted in all families, all creatures. Souls like that feel called to protect everyone as fiercely as those they hold close. Each time Runaan leaves, it is with the weight of knowing that he may not come back. That to fulfil his duty, he may need to sacrifice everything, himself, and all that we have here.

Rayla likewise feels called to protect everyone, and that's precisely why by the end of Bloodmoon Huntress she's chosen to literally and figuratively follow in Runaan's career path, in order to be able to help protect and save people like Suroh (a stranger she immediately becomes entangled with). As Rayla says to the vision of Runaan and her parents in 5x01, "I think this is what you would want me to do," because they are ultimately all more alike (even in the occupations Rayla holds, such as assassin or dragonguard) than they are dissimilar.

The reason I highlight Rayla here is because 1) it is her highest value, being the only character to have it as said highest value (Claudia's, likewise, is only an 8 — but everything she does is indeed for her father, and unknowingly herself) and 2) I think it provides a clear contrast to Callum.

Because Callum's devotion does outline who, or what, he's loyal to. He isn't loyal just to causes and he isn't loyal just to concepts. While he cares about the world, when his back is up against the wall and it's a choice between that kind of security vs the life of a loved on (Ez, Rayla), Callum will always choose the latter. He cares about the world — to a Point.

I've talked about it before, but merely a statement of "I value those close to me more than anything" would accordingly be a lot more vague. There could be discussions and debates on what the 'anything' constitutes (morals, responsibilities, hurt feelings) with a lot more grey room as to whether it would include people (strangers).

“Maybe there is something I can do,” Callum said. “Ezran, you stay here. Protect Bait and Zym. Don’t worry. I’ll be back soon—with Rayla.” [...] Could he really bring himself to go through with his plan? What if he didn’t succeed? What if he compromised his beliefs and it all ended up being for nothing? […] But Rayla’s blade bounced off with a clang, sparks flying. She reeled back and tried again. Nothing happened. She was in trouble. Callum inched toward Claudia��s [book].

—Book 2: Sky novelization

But the inclusion of "more than anyone" changes that. It does include people. There is no wiggle room about that.

Now, I'm not going to base my whole thing on one (1) statement from a supplementary material. As previously stated, I've seen Callum with that exact same sentiment for years now, well before Tales of Xadia (March 2022) was released, and well before S4 or S5 premiered. I've gone over a lot of the reasons I thought Callum had selective loyalty even in S1, but I haven't touched too much on one of the biggest reasons why I think that selective loyalty includes a devotional component that borders on dangerous (at least, in a story). And that's, well...

“Rayla told me you used Dark Magic,” [Ethari] said, more stiff and cold. Callum shrank a bit, but his eyes hardened. “I couldn’t just let her die.” “You’d do it again." The prince scowled. “I’m not like Aaravos. He twisted the primal to be like Dark Magic. I would never do that.” “Unless you felt like you had to,” [Ethari] reiterated. “To save Rayla.” “Wouldn’t you do anything to save the person you love?”

—chapter 13 of a fic I co-wrote called in search of silver linings (we discovered gold) from july 2019, respectively

As soon as Callum opened up the door with dark magic in 2x07, I knew it was something he likely would never be able to entirely close. Not for lack of trying or wanting — but that his willingness to engage in dark magic at all spoke to a few different things. The first was the effectiveness — what spell to use, what would be most useful, and what Rayla's biggest problem would be (her swords unable to cut chains) — but most of all was what pushed him there: his devotion.

While magic has always been the thing presenting Callum with paths (to be a mage or not a mage, to be a primal or a dark mage), his bonds with other people, and his love for them — Rayla in particular — has always been what's actually pushed him down certain paths. His love for his mother, and her love for him, is what helps him unlock the sky arcanum. Callum unlocks his wings out of his love for Rayla; he goes down on the path of mage because "you called me a mage, and that felt right."

Although mastery of magic is one of Callum's highest values (an 8, just like his devotion), it was always clear to me that magic is not something Callum values above the people he loves. He can be obsessive, and his love for magic can sometimes put himself and other people unintentionally at risk, but thus far we've always seen him course correct the minute he realizes what's happening. The second things begin to go south at the Banther Lodge, Callum reflects, "We never should've come here," and completely forgoes the quest for the cube. He tries to risk his life just for magic in 2x04, but as we've gone over, he's unable to go through with it, but he will risk his life for his loved ones.

His rejection of dark magic was, to me, of being a dark mage, of not also pursuing primal magic, of relying on dark magic. Not that he would never, under any circumstance, ever do dark magic again if the show put him in the right circumstances. And then he did, in spite of knowing it would make him more vulnerable to Aaravos, in spite of not having any confirmation it wouldn't bring on a second possession, in spite of the fact he was fine being tortured if that meant not doing it or participating.

Then we have Callum giving up the spell, and the fact that the Ocean arcanum is linked more directly to love within his arc — "To love is to simply know this: the tides are true as the ocean is deep" (5x01, 5x08) — in addition to being aware that there are unknown depths in what he's willing to do for said loved ones/Rayla.

This is not to say that none of the main cast would do dark magic — although I don't think Soren or Ezran ever would, and I think Rayla would but only perhaps using herself as spell parts — but that, as the primary mage character, it's going to and is playing a much bigger part in Callum's arc than the others, who are given other thematic considerations.

He hates dark magic. He doesn't want to let Aaravos control him. He refuses to help Finnegrin. He folds on all of those things motivated by love. It's a weakness and a strength; something that, in my eyes, will likely lead to his fall to Aaravos ("Seems to me love's got a tighter grip on you than those chains around your wrists, so I'll do you a favour [by killing Rayla] and set you free") as well as what might save him. But to focus on the fall, with everything already said behind us:

Why Love Instead of Curiosity?

Now, obviously the theory of "Callum will free Aaravos because of [insert non possession reason here]" could be wrong. There's merits in having arcs about the tragedy inherent in losing your agency, it would still open up an interesting arc after the fact, and all that good stuff.

Callum has also very much always been an Icarus figure. He can be obsessive with magic, he can take it too far, and he does have a deep curiosity and thirst for knowledge that has already gotten him in trouble by not excluding dark magic from the bunch.

And deep curiosity is already hinted to be what partially causes him to fall further into Aaravos' clutches in a few different places. The mirror ("What secrets are you hiding?") and the cube ("Perhaps it will be you, Callum, who discover's the cube's secrets") seem accordingly linked and fittingly so, for the Mystery of Aaravos, as is magic: "it's the secret of the primal".

Zubeia also warns regarding curiosity, citing that, "Aaravos was able to give them something they wanted very badly. Aaravos chose as his instruments people who had strong minds and strong hearts… but who had an insatiable thirst and fascination with magic. Aaravos could offer them access to the great mysteries of the universe. Mages were his prey," which implies that this thirst for magic is what got them (primarily) into trouble. This is reflected (pun intended) in both Aaravos' reading of Viren as "You are too curious, hungry for knowledge and power," and while Callum is hungry for knowledge (and not necessarily power), his short story in which he finds the mirror highlights one of these things as well:

Callum’s eyes prickled with dust and tears. He rushed back to the spiral staircase—but as he reached for the figurine that would activate them, he noticed one last door he hadn’t checked. The small chamber beyond it lay dark and silent. A gleam caught his eye. Callum blinked at his own reflection. Curious, he stepped through the door—and there it was. A mirror.

With all that in mind, and I'm sure there's ones I've missed, too, why on Earth am I arguing that while curiosity may play a factor, I think it's going to be love that ultimately causes his initial downfall / playing into Aaravos' hands?

Well...

For starters, I personally find "doing terrible things for love" to be not only a primary theme of arc 2, but much more fundamentally sympathetic than just getting in over your head because you were a dumbass who couldn't read the signs. I know for myself that if Callum fucks around and accidentally gets himself into a place where (under possession at that point or not) he helps free, or just flat out helps, Aaravos knowing everything that he knows, if he does it for love I will defend his choice every step of the way. If it happens just because he wants more power or magical knowledge (hello Viren 2.0 beat for beat) I'm gonna be a lot more critical of him. After all, Claudia has done a lot of awful things but I still have sympathy for her because they were for her family, in their own fractured way, and operating out of a place of deep emotional pain. If she was doing that just because she wanted to be Powerful and Knowledgable, then no, I'm not going to be that sympathetic.

The other half of it, which you might have already guessed, is that curiosity is not a Motivation. It's a manifestation of a character's pyschological makeup. Even for a character like Viren, who very much chased power, ultimately, for the sake of power, we take time to dive into WHY he wanted those things ("To know that I mean something to you, it means everything to me" / "I dream of a bright future for humanity") and his internal justifications, no matter if some of those turned out to be lies.

Characters who are curious are curious because they want to solve puzzles and have a hard time letting things go; or else they are curious because they want to prove themselves by solving things first; or else they are curious because they deeply love and want to understand and protect the world; or else they are curious because they want to know and have access to tools so that they can fix problems; or else... Well, you get the idea.

Even if it is primarily Callum's curiosity and love/thirst for magic that gets him into trouble (and thus far it largely hasn't been, as we see in S2 with his motivation for doing dark magic — yes, there was a part of him that was undeniably curious about what it would be like, but I don't think he would've pushed himself into doing it without the dire straits of "I had to, to save my friends")... That doesn't answer why he's curious.

Either he will pull a full Greek tragedy and be so scared of freeing Aaravos he accidentally walks into it by trying to prevent it directly (and one of the main reasons he's scared of Aaravos is because he's scared he might hurt people he loves through possession) or he needs another motivation, but it can't just be "Callum really wants this [insert magical knowledge here] and it ends badly," because that offers a plot summary, not an emotional character beat. There's no motivation. They'll have to explain why he wants the magical knowledge, why he's chasing it, why this level of curiosity is something he cannot or will not put down even with all the risk factors at play. It has to be grounded in some kind of sympathetic emotion, and love or fear or a desire to be helpful/useful, or all three makes the most sense to me and with all the prior setup.

Conclusion

As a closing note, as well as thank you for reading this far if you have because this got wildly long and out of hand, I want to reiterate that in many ways, to me, Callum's devotion to his loved ones — that he says "I would do anything for you" and mean it — is indeed his saving grace and biggest difference from Viren, who would rather offer up himself or others or have Harrow die than relinquish the egg, because he would never put a weapon into Xadia's hands. Being devotional — valuing the individual — is not always a good or bad thing, nor is prioritizing the 'greater good' always a good or a bad thing. TDP is deeply interested in exploring all the different circumstances of motivation, sacrifice, and choices.

Nor is selective loyalty a bad thing. I'm not wired that way, but some of my closest loved ones are (and of those in the fandom have, overall, greatly aligned with this perceived aspect of Callum). Merely, this meta is meant to examine the claim in Tales of Xadia that "I value those close to me more than anyone or anything," why I was surprised but delighted to see my view of Callum be so directly spelled out, why I had that view and continue to have it, in addition to aspects/pieces of the text that I think support it.

I believe that Callum is loyal to Ezran and Rayla on a fundamental level he does not really extend to anyone else (including many other people who are also his family) and while this is in many ways something that creates the best sides of him — his nurturing, compassionate, thoughtful and protective traits — it is also something that can be exploitable and dangerous, particularly in a narrative where he is set up to be controlled/coerced by the big bad.

And this meta hopefully explained why.

You can take it or leave it.

—Dragons out

#snake boi callum #two pillars #tdp #tdp meta #the dragon prince #analysis series #analysis #tdp callum #callum #multi #tales of xadia #this got so long YES im mad about it #characterization

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blue-rose-soul · 9 months ago

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Does alastor,, at least his living appearance, look any different in your au? I mean, lucifer can shapeshift so I assume getting a more human form would be easy, but did he get some of his traits?

So I talked about this a little here, but mainly, the only thing that changes overmuch about Alastor's human appearance is that he inherited Lucifer's pointy teeth, even as a human. Ironically, this made him embarrased of his smile when he was small. Obviously he's gotten over it by now.

I do like to think Alastor does take after Lucifer appearance-wise in some ways. I mean, they do have some traits in common in canon, which can be largely attributed to the art style. But as for his human appearance, well, since he doesn't have a canon human appearance (yet) I'm mainly basing this off of some common fanon interpretations. I personally like to imagine him with a skin tone close to what he has now in his demon form - maybe a bit more saturated - but I know he would have had to be light-skinned enough to pass for white if he worked as a radio host in the 20s-30s.

I guess some other traits Alastor could have inherited from Lucifer that wouldn't be too obvious in animation would be things like the shape of his mouth or jaw, or his eyes. He definitely got his mother's dark brown eye color though.

Thinking about it more, it's possible that even though he appeared for all intents and purposes human, he might have had some unusual genetic quirks as a half-angel, even before he died. Nothing big enough to cause alarm, just a few peculiarities, like an atypical heart rhythm, organs in the wrong place, something like that.

#ask #anonymous #Hazbin Hotel #the Devil's Bastard AU #Alastor #Lucifer Morningstar #As for the shapeshifting thing #the only thing Lucifer did to alter his appearance was giving himself ears and a more prominent nose #everyone was wearing extravagant makeup and costumes so he didn't feel the need to do more than that

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swordfright · 4 months ago

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https://www.tumblr.com/swordfright/756502816281018368/what-do-you-think-is-your-most-controversial-dsmp?source=share

I remember sending this to a bunch of dsmp blogs (starting with elmhat I think ?) bc I like when people share ideas/opinions who diverge from the main consensus because I find it the most efficient way for people to stick to canon and not fanon since people can have different interpretations of event

And it was super interesting to see the one about the experimentation being after prison rather than before (loved the two LN and Q ones too but as you said they were a bit more common. Would love to see your take on c!slime though now)

(And I wouldn't have a problem with you giving unpopular opinion about the fandom either but to be clear I was not trying to start anything with my first question, I just like seeing uncommon takes)

Don't worry lol I didn't assume you were trying to start shit. Ok, so c!Slime is pretty interesting in that he's the closest thing we have to an NPC in what is otherwise a roleplay, which implies certain things about how he can be used in the narrative.

A little bit of quick background: I spent a LOT of time as a kid doing RP online (it was an original story set in the Death Note universe and it happened on a website that went bankrupt in like 2017 and no longer exists lmfao don't worry about it) and idk what RP etiquette is like in other communities, but in the community I was a part of, it was sort of frowned upon for players to outsource heavy plot/character development material to NPCs. It was allowed and people did it, but it was seen as sort of a cop-out. The underlying idea being that if you're gonna bother to do RP, your character's most important interactions should be with other PCs, in part because it helps build/strengthen the RP community and in part because it better entrenches your character's storyline in the storylines of other PCs, which in turn encourages other players to keep RPing and keeps the story going. Again, creating NPCs was very common, but players were discouraged from having entire arcs or character trajectories be highly dependent on NPCs. It was seen as sort of a cheap, low-effort way of progressing your character's development without having to coordinate plot beats with other players, and doing it too often was seen as sort of antithetical to what RP is trying to achieve as a form of gaming-storytelling. To me, c!Slime is a classic example of when an RPer outsources a little too much narrative weight onto an NPC.

First of all, I wanna clarify that it's kinda difficult to define what an NPC is or isn't on this server, but I'd say c!Slime is more of an NPC because even though he's played by a CC with some degree of improv, we know that cc!Quackity specifically wrote c!Slime's character to fulfill a narrative role and asked cc!Slime to play that character - as opposed to alternate characters played by CCs of their own accord (Sam Nook, Dream XD, Sam Bucket, Mexican Dream, etc.) So, for example, I don't see Sam Bucket as an NPC but I do see c!Slime as an NPC. c!Slime wasn't an original creation on the part of the player, he's a narrative tool (which is fine, but it does mean that what he can and can't do in the story is limited to what cc!Q needed him to do.)

There are some things I think the addition of c!Slime did accomplish. For one, Q's interactions with him provide a platform for more introspective character work on Q's part. And while I that character work could've been done by having Q interact with a PC instead, I do think Slime is better positioned to act as an apprentice figure because he had almost no lore prior to Las Nevadas and didn't enter the story with baggage or ties to any other major characters. He's a blank slate, which makes him really easy to use as a narrative device. Q voices thoughts and ideas to Slime that he can't voice to other characters (usually because it would be OOC for him to do so, or wouldn't make sense in context), which means that Slime is sort of a vehicle for delivering Q characterization to the audience.

This is all fine and I think a lot of it was done fairly well. I like cc!Slime's acting and I think the character is a fun addition to the LN crew. That said, I don't think the payoff was great. Slime being an NPC really undermined what I assume cc!Q was going for with End of Las Nevadas, in large part because he doesn't have well-established relationships with other characters. Aside from Q, Slime basically only ever interacts with Tommy, Foolish and Ranboo, and even those interactions are limited to a really tiny handful of streams. Punz capturing and manipulating him, Slime helping c!Dream confront Quackity...all that stuff could have been a lot more interesting if it had more time to marinate. Like, I love the IDEA of Slime and c!Dream interacting, but we don't really get any meaningful interactions between them outside of Slime's function as a storytelling tool. He's there when he needs to be, and only ever when he needs to be.

For instance, I would've loved to see what Slime thinks about Q's slime army. It's really weird to model your mindlessly obedient slave army after your friend. That was a weird ass thing for Q to do, and it would've been cool to see Slime react to that. But because he's more NPC than PC, and because highly scripted lore like the LN series doesn't really encourage deviation, we never get to find that out. Slime doesn't ever really get to be his own character, which in the end kinda undermines a lot of the character development he triggers for c!Quackity because at the end of the day, it's really transparent that Slime only exists to be a prop. It's a kind of one-sided relationship that's unique to RP.

I think End of Las Nevadas was weak for other reasons too, but uhhhh yeah the Slime stuff bothered me a bit. Would've liked to see him do more. And he disappears after pushing Q off the ledge and, to my knowledge, we never see him again! If he had been more PC and less storytelling tool, presumably other characters would've had opportunities to react to Slime's role in the events of that stream, or notice that he's missing/back again/missing. But instead, he's able to just vanish from the story after he's fulfilled his role because that's all he was ever supposed to do.

#and this is a character I do really like #he just ended up falling flat #mostly due to what I perceive as kinda lazy corner-cutting #c!slimecicle #c!quackity #asks

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madara-fate · 10 months ago

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Hello!

I recently came across a post that triggered me a bit, and I wanted to talk about it.

In essence, the points raised were that:

Women are more inclined to ship Sasuke and Naruto because they have chemistry and share a lot in common.

Shipping Sasuke with Sakura makes no sense because they are too different, and she doesn't understand him.

If BoruSara were to happen, it would imply that their fathers are a thing because of the parallels.

Sakura is a poorly written character, and people can't relate to her because she's too unrealistic.

Sakura is poorly written because, essentially, she's different from Sasuke and Naruto.

First of all... SNS exists not because of the supposed chemistry between them but because they are two attractive white guys sharing a lot of screen time together and so, the perfect combo for fujoshi shipping. Justifying this expedition is like justifying the fact that the frequent depiction of partially naked women on car racing posters has no relation to the intended audience.

If Sakura shouldn't be with Sasuke because she doesn't understand him, does Naruto understand him? Seriously?

Naruto understands Sasuke's loneliness, that's it.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not bashing their connection, but let's be honest, nobody really understood Sasuke there -yet it didn't stop them from wanting to help him-

Furthermore, what does this imply? That you can only be in a relationship with someone who has a similar background?

Saying Sakura doesn't understand Sasuke at all is superficial on so many levels that I won't even bother dwelling on it.

Next, the idea that people think the parallels they cling to justify their ship is just... bizarre.

If BoruSara were to happen, it wouldn't prove anything about SNS because the biggest difference between these two ships would be the author's intention.

SNS would have happened if Kishimoto wanted their relationship that way, but that wasn't the case. It has been repeatedly emphasized in the manga that their relationship is not romantic.

If some interpret it that way, that's fine, but they shouldn't tell the author how he wrote HIS own manga. And no, it's not heteronormativity. I don't even understand why some fanon ships seek canon validation for their shipping.

Not to mention that every time they talk about these parallels, many seem to deliberately forget that these two children are not mirror images of their fathers but their own individuals.

Yes, they have the foundation of their personalities, but that's just it, the foundation. Apart from that, they differ on so many levels that it's not even funny.

Sarada also shares a lot of her mother's personality, and it's as clear as day. So, if I follow this logic, does BoruSara also imply that NaruSaku could have been a thing despite Sakura's total absence of romantic feelings?

Boruto can indeed be like his father, but he also tries to be like his mentor, so sometimes, he resembles him too. And he can be as calm and focused as his mother, not to mention he has personality traits unique to him. All this makes him someone too different from the "Naruto carbon copy" label stuck on him. Saying that is really downplaying his character.

Moreover, the relationship these two have is also different from that of their fathers: it's normal and not built on a heap of negative feelings and deadly fights that led to a vitriolic friendship.

As for the last two points, Sakura is less unrealistic than Sasuke and Naruto, yet not many bat an eye at that. Maybe because it's a shounen manga about ninjas, and unreality is actually expected...?

In fact, Sakura is the most realistic character in this series.

Her character development is incredible, not just because "she was weak at the beginning and became strong," it's more than that.

Sakura has shown me that no matter how you start, you can reach the destination you want if you work for it. Her transformation is phenomenal: throughout the manga, she radicalizes in ALL aspects. She removes her blinders, starts seeing people for who they really are, becomes more understanding and attentive, learns —and sometimes in the most brutal ways— that everything is not black and white and that you sometimes have to make horrible choices to protect others.

She changes in so many ways, and the best part is that Kishimoto didn't make her some perfect Mary Sue. He made her evolve despite her flaws, for which I will always be grateful.

Sakura is not a poorly written character. Yes, she could have been more explored, and sometimes her author did her wrong, but that doesn't make her a bad character. She could have been better —all the characters in this series could have been— but that doesn't mean she's "worse."

She is fundamentally the reason why I'm in my last year of college today and intend to persevere in my studies (and it's not even a joke).

I never had a family model I could identify with, and all the characters (fictional or not) I love or admire have always seemed out of reach, just an ideal to idolize but unable to imitate.

With Sakura, however, it has always been different; every time I look at her, I think, "if she could do it, then why not me?"

Her importance in my life in terms of motivation and emotional development has been crucial, so it's really frustrating to see people deduce that just because they can't identify with her, no one can, and she's a bad character.

She's not poorly written; she's just different.

Many of us, little girls that we were, saw ourselves in OG Sakura (whether we admit it or not) because the way she was written is how a lot of pre-adolescent girls behave (minus the rapid character development).

It was nice to grow up with her because it showed me that I didn't need to be perfect or have incredible motivations or be "cool" from the start to become someone exceptional. She taught me that my future is not set in stone. And most importantly, she taught me to be myself, to be authentic, to accept and love myself as the imperfect human that I am.

The weirdest thing about this is that these statements came from someone who claims not to care about SNS and doesn't hate Sakura. How can a person claiming to be neutral come to such a conclusion? Honestly, it baffles me; this kind of pseudo-analysis is on the same level of nonsense as what antis spew.

If some can't be bothered to understand a character, then they should simply say nothing about her.

I'm sorry for bothering you with this, but after reading this thing, I just couldn't let it pass.

I don't know how you guys manage to tolerate this fandom, let alone respond to all the strange and stupid takes you receive day after day. In any case, you have my utmost respect.

Thank you for listening, and I wish you a beautiful and happy new year.

I agree apart from two things.

Naruto and Sasuke do have chemistry, but there's just nothing romantic about it.

I wouldn't bring the colour of their skin into it, that opens up a whole other can of worms.

If Sakura shouldn't be with Sasuke because she doesn't understand him, does Naruto understand him? Seriously? Naruto understands Sasuke's loneliness, that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Naruto understood Sasuke in some ways (loneliness, being high level shinobi who could read each other's thoughts through fighting etc), and Sakura understood him in other ways (his likes/dislikes, how his mind works and his decision making processes etc).

Furthermore, what does this imply? That you can only be in a relationship with someone who has a similar background?

Yep, that's one of the things that's always irked me the most from their points. It's like they think that just because Sakura couldn't empathise with Sasuke's tough upbringing, that makes her an unsuitable partner for him, which is just all kinds of stupid. It's also one of the reasons the SK fans prefer that ship, since Karin also had a relatively tough upbringing, she'd be able to "understand" Sasuke better than Sakura. As if being able to empathise with a tough childhood is all there is to understand about a person.

If BoruSara were to happen, it wouldn't prove anything about SNS because the biggest difference between these two ships would be the author's intention. SNS would have happened if Kishimoto wanted their relationship that way, but that wasn't the case. It has been repeatedly emphasized in the manga that their relationship is not romantic.

Agreed. This silly idea that BS's canonisation would somehow serve as proof that SNS should have happened, is one of the 4 main reasons why I do not want BS to happen. Although it is the least important to me out of the 4 of them.

Not all interpretations and opinions are valid. I'm sorry but I'm sick of people hiding behind this false idea that just because they say it's their opinion or interpretation, it's just as valid as everyone else's. No, opinions and interpretations can be wrong. Authorial intent dictates how the narrative is supposed to be perceived and understood. Therefore, if Kishi says that something is a certain way, then that's the way it is, end of story, no room for further interpretation. If Kishi says that Naruto and Sasuke are platonic, and that they were never meant to be anything more than that, then that's the way it is. Other interpretations are wrong, because Kishi's word is gospel.

Not to mention that every time they talk about these parallels, many seem to deliberately forget that these two children are not mirror images of their fathers but their own individuals.

That too.

Agreed, I'd say that in terms of personality, Sarada is a closer parallel to Sakura than Sasuke, and NS obviously didn't happen.

💯

As for the last two points, Sakura is less unrealistic than Sasuke and Naruto, yet not many bat an eye at that. Maybe because it's a shounen manga about ninjas, and unreality is actually expected...? In fact, Sakura is the most realistic character in this series.

To be honest, I have no idea what they could be referring to when those people label Sakura as apparently being unrealistic.

Regarding the identification question, just because you can't identify with her doesn't mean everyone can't. I do, and many others do too because, for once, in the whole history of shounen, we have a female character with authentic and not-so-likable flaws, approaching more the human being without the need for a traumatic event or a horrible childhood to justify her behavior. Her character development is incredible, not just because "she was weak at the beginning and became strong," it's more than that. Sakura has shown me that no matter how you start, you can reach the destination you want if you work for it. Her transformation is phenomenal: throughout the manga, she radicalizes in ALL aspects. She removes her blinders, starts seeing people for who they really are, becomes more understanding and attentive, learns —and sometimes in the most brutal ways— that everything is not black and white and that you sometimes have to make horrible choices to protect others.

Unfortunately, many people just don't see any of that. They see an annoying, selfish person who treated Naruto poorly (despite that only being applicable to before the Forest of Death), "obsessed" over Sasuke (when she really didn't, and that criticism is far more applicable to Naruto anyway), broke off her friendship with Ino over a boy (showing how they missed the entire point of that fight), and was essentially useless (despite among other things, saving many important people's lives, multiple times).

"She could have been better —all the characters in this series could have been" - Yes, I'm glad you highlighted this. This is by no means a Sakura exclusive criticism. It's just more of a problem for her since she was a main character.

She is fundamentally the reason why I'm in my last year of college today and intend to persevere in my studies (and it's not even a joke). I never had a family model I could identify with, and all the characters (fictional or not) I love or admire have always seemed out of reach, just an ideal to idolize but unable to imitate. With Sakura, however, it has always been different; every time I look at her, I think, "if she could do it, then why not me?"

Yeah I get that, I said something very similar about her during this post towards the end, where I described the primary two ways in which I found Sakura to be an inspiring character.

Kishimoto once said that his goal with Sakura was to create a realistic female character that little girls could identify with and despite all the controversy surrounding her character, he actually succeeded in this challenge. Many of us, little girls that we were, saw ourselves in OG Sakura (whether we admit it or not) because the way she was written is how a lot of pre-adolescent girls behave (minus the rapid character development).

I'll take your word for it. Personally, towards the beginning I did indeed find Sakura very irritating, for several different reasons, but I grew to appreciate her for what she brings, rather than continuously judging her for how she was at the very beginning. But apparently, "character development" is either a foreign concept to these people, or can only be applied if the character in question moves on from her initial feelings. Because if not, then her entire character automatically "regresses", regardless of the reasons why she retained her feelings.

That reminds me of a video that Swagkage made on YouTube, which I talked about in great depth during this post, regarding how he tried to lie and say that he didn't hate Sakura and that he was impartial to her, yet the vast majority of the video was him hating on Sakura.

I don't know how you guys manage to tolerate this fandom, let alone respond to all the strange and stupid takes you receive day after day. In any case, you have my utmost respect. Thank you for listening, and I wish you a beautiful and happy new year

My general tolerance for people's bullshit is honestly inhuman, lol. But many thanks, and happy (belated) new year to you as well ^_^

#Naruto Uzumaki #Sasuke Uchiha #Sakura Haruno #sasusaku

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