#dean brutal meta

[ananke-xiii]

okay but hear me out: a SPN spin-off but instead of the characters we have the SPN writers in the writers' room and it's The Office-like.

[finalgirlsamwinchester]

re: last post and rambling thoughts on torture before i pass out - the key thing about represented torture to me is a matter of bodies being humiliated and punished before an audience. there's a distinct line between who experiences bodily torture and gets violated on screen vs. the threat of or implied past torture. more important to me is the matter of who gets visually stripped of power before us, as the voyeuristic audience. when i speak on humiliation - it can be something as simple yet starkly different as dean getting to keep his shirt on while hooked up in hell vs. meg strapped to a table naked in s6. abbadon threatening dean with possession described as a kind of rape (9.02) vs. crowley making a rape joke before possessing sam a few episodes later. (and yeah, stuff like possession falls under the added filter of genre fantasy, separating us from the reality of the violation that's occuring). really, torture just comes down to one thing: what gets shown to us. what gets lingered upon.

no one's free from physical torture/humiliation on this show. but there's a hierarchy for depicted humiliation etched out on the basis of masculinity (a Hero can never appear too weak) and gender - but most importantly, divided by monstrosity/humanity - especially obvious in how it treats its women (thinking on the good charlie/bad charlie plot from s10. who gets brutalised on screen?). there's also the added dimension of race, and the brutality of deaths inflicted on characters of colour on this show. there's a difference between a regular on-screen death and an excessively cruel one. the difference between getting stabbed vs. being made to drink bleach while your wife watches (3.01) vs. your head garroted on screen (3.07). one carries heavier overtones of humiliation. because to bring it back around again - torture is a theatre of punishment, first and formost, just like a public execution. it functions as a warning, but it also acts as a social sacrificial ritual. a means of collective punishment.

and on this show, the lines get blurred between its metaphorical hierarchies (monstrosity/humanity) and incidental inclusion of real world systemic oppression (along the lines of represented gender/race/disability etc.). monstrosity often gets used metaphorically in speculative fiction to stand in for categories of marginalised people, and it also functions similarly on this show. it all boils back down to a fundamental truth: torture, just like sexual violence, just like abuse, is the natural language of hierarchies. it's the language by which power (re)asserts itself. everything falls under the umbrella of systemic violence.

Black Sails S2E1 because this is one of the clearest illustrations of this principle i've seen yet on tv

(yes i'm throwing Foucault's Discipline and Punish onto a harebrained Supernatural meta i'm writing at 2 am. what about it)

[shallowseeker]

Optimism freeform meta

Jack, Harper, and the folly of pursuing of immature, illusory Perfection as the antidote to life's many disappointments.

///

Okay, here it comes. It's our rambling, group Optimism meta from discord that I promised once upon a time I'd post here. Apologies ahead of time if I get your Tumblr names wrong.

Harper's flat is decorated in ooey-gooey symbols of love.

Green for growth (though Harper's growth pattern is certainly arrested), and red for passion. We have the green-Italian amore in the symbolic kitchen of life, and a bright red heart near the entrance.

BEWARE: You're entering Harper's heart. It's black and bloody.

We also see that her home is full to the brim with books and stories. She clings to them, hoping they'll bring her life meaning. The blood-red-pink-purple color theme continues in the form of her array of romance novels.

Harper herself is clothed in red, in a Sayles-coded corduroy, perhaps a mate to the hunter's anorak jacket. Her little scarf is certainly Scooby-Doo-Daphne-esque, but it's also a RED BANDANA calling to mind that she's an OUTLAW, like Dave Matthews in the Tombstone episode.

///

But her bedroom is more serene, stuffed with zen colors, serene green, and a bedful of childish stuff animals. It's dominated by strong protector-types like lions and elephants.

via @honeyedwhiskey: okay so I got intrigued by the fact that she has these particular stuffed animals. the lion, symbolizing stalking her prey, elephants for their memory and their brutality (maybe a nod to wanting community) and the tiger for her actual isolation. the puppy seems to be an older addition, maybe from childhood, and the smallest and most vulnerable one is being protected by the dog which seems to be a bear cub? reference to maybe a mama bear that protected her? the three at the top are what interest me the most though because harper is represented by the heart and the color red so the mouse is her, and the two pigs seem to be her parents, with one being a combination of colors and patchwork looking. so it seems to me that one of her parents was zombie-fied, maybe from a young age.

I like the symbolic nature Whiskey acribed to the stuffed animals above a lot!

I too think her reaction to abandonment and Vance speaks to something really fucked up in her necromancy family, like maybe a necromancy-coming-of-age-trial that went REALLY REALLY badly and wound up with her being totally alone.

Maybe it's like how Sam jokingly told Charlie: "You're not really a hunter till you've come back form the dead." Or like Cas told Jack of his own death, "It's something of a rite of passage around here."

Maybe you're not really a necromancer until you've killed and brought your family back and ofc Harper failing that test would fuck her up forever.

//

I noticed the teddy bear, too! There's a tee-tiny nod to the teddy-bear lovers' symbol above her bed, same as Marvelous Marvin has a red heart on his chest in season 15's Gimme Shelter. (And Dean's I Wuv Hugs from a million years ago.)

[The stuffed bear is] a simultaneous motif...of sexual intimacy and The Lover, it's also representative of The Beloved Child resulting from their contact.

(Jack is Marvin.)

///

Here's love in the corner, illuminated by two lamps. Harper is getting Jack a book, a book about her little beloved hometown, McCook.

Deep down, Harper is lonely, and unlike her disdain for her other suitors, she's a little different with Jack here: she wants to be understood.

She wants him to understand her and her hometown. Just a little. She's prodding at the niggling, unusual, UNFAMILIAR feeling. So, she sits down and invites him to sit, to learn more about her.

By this point, it's possible she's figured out he's a hunter, which opens up the possibility of revealing her true self, for better or for worse. It's an intoxicating thought for Harper.

Jack hesitates, clearly interested but also a little bit "!!!!"

He's framed by the heart on the wall. Indeed Jack, like Dean and Mary, is a "heart" character. He's even clothed in one of Mary's key colors: dusky orangey pink. (Aside// You'll notice Connor also wears this color in Gimme Shelter.)

///

Unlike in Tombstone, where Jack wasn't (via script) all that interested in Athena and Dave's relationship, now Jack's clearly grown. He's even interested in physicality.

Even though his emotional core can be kinda prickly, like Dean and Mary, he's at root a very affectionate character, interested in experience affection/connection with others:

So, he sits. Perseveres through he awkwardness. And lo and behold, Harper is as weird as he is.

They talk about having a positive outlook, even though they've had and terrible pasts, have done terrible things. And hey, look--she's getting the lamp treatment! How lovely.

They sit on the blue couch, as Harper tells him more about her past, subconsciously seeking his acceptance. The blue of the couch mirrors the blue color of her past, of her prom dress. We see her little prom queen crown, and we wonder...Harper is so awkward...

...does she really seem like the Prom Queen type?

I suspect it was fake. That she manufactured her own popularity with bit of magic. To meet the perfectionistic obsession with her romance tales. She is at core a fearful character, fearful of messing up, or being imperfect, of not living up to The Dream (TM).

///

Jack makes a quick getaway. In this shot, he's effectively the trope of the divine masculine, fleeing from love, "amore."

It's interesting that the kitchen, a bit like the bedroom, is earthier in tone, filled with more "valley" colors: of browns, greens. The kitchen is about the imperfect strivings of every day life, divorced from the high-dollar reds of Harper's romance-novel decor.

In the bathroom, Jack is clearly interested in exploring "love."

To Dean, he says, "Just in case (she is in love with me)...tell me everything you know about sex. Go!"

Jack is a curious-and-courageous character, too. He's prone to experimentation, which is also why he so often gets the drug ("I like cocaine!" and The Who) motifs. Like Cas, he's maybe a little scared, but he's going to go-for-it no matter how silly and awkward he might look.

That courage is probably something Harper senses in him. It's attractive to her, like the symbolic stuffed-animal lion-and-tiger protectors she has in her bedroom. She wonders:

"Is he strong enough to love the real me?"

In THIS sense, the thing with Vance isn't completely "a naughty nurse game." Deep down, at her root psychological base, Harper is testing the potential lovers' strength. Very classically mythical, really. And she's disgusted by her suitors because they keep failing and failing.

No one is like Vance. Not even Vance is like Vance. Her idea of Vance was never real, and she was never prom queen. But admitting that to herself is so painful, she constructs this horrible pattern of death and destruction.

///

"Her apartment has a lot of wallpaper/furniture from the 50’s! Or with that general aesthetic!" -Cal (@13-01)

It's so interesting, because this 50s retro theme is something that Jack, Dean, and Cas carry a lot, especially in terms of their "old-school" button-up pajamas and dressing downs. (Cas himself, with his overcoat, could be plopped in the middle of Mad Men tv series and fit into the surroundings, haha. And although we rarely see Sam carry the motif, but he dips into it in Peace of Mind as well.)

At the end of this episode, we'll see Harper seated in her own retro cafe with the same 50s vibe as well, a Charming Acres-sort of feeling. To me this symbolizes a backwards-looking illusion of perfection, that everything used to be simpler and better, and with enough effort, it can be simpler and better again.

Also there are dragonflies in her bathroom, a bit of a parallel to the lonesome fly plot that Sam and Charlie are on (in this same episode).

This too is the backwards-looking motif, of holding onto the illusory idea of Happiness (TM) so tightly that it becomes tragic and destructive.

///

Since even her idea of Vance isn't real, it's become like Amara's illusory idea of love. It can never let her down. "It can never hurt her."

[mydemondetoxmanual]

Rewatching SPN is such a journey tbh.

Like Cas falls for Dean Winchester in season 4. And the writer told us we were wrong and the internet said we were wrong hell the actors said we were wrong. Being a teenager and trying to understand your own identity and watching a show you love bash its brains in. It’s watching Cas rebel against his own family, his own morals; against heaven, hell, God for one man and realizing that’s what love is. Love is brutal and broken and not perfect syrupy sweet. It’s work but not to me not if it’s you.

They made a love story without trying and mocked us to tell us we were wrong. What is love if not standing in the face of cruelty? Did they mean for it to be that meta? Love is accepting the worst parts of something and loving it anyways. The show is bad and terrible and I’ll love it until my dying breath.

Dean dies without ever saying I love you back. A man doomed to a narrative he never wanted. He wanted love and family. He died before his family and his love is ripped away. A show doomed to its worst parts of itself.

Anyways I start season 6 today :))

[pendragony]

I've just finally worked out what Dean's face makes me think of here - it's the expression of a parent who's just been reunited with their lost child.

[keen-eye]

you know what would be so meta and funny (to me at least)

if in pac-man fever when charlie tells sam and dean that she read the supernatural books she also said she read fan forums and that apparently a lot of the audience really dislikes sam lmao. he’s already one of the most tragic characters ever for his treatment in universe (which i love) and out of universe (which i hate). let’s just amp it up because there’s no winning for him anyway

imagine if sam knew that the audience prefers dean and even supports his abuse of sam because dean is ultimately always viewed to be in the right. on top of knowing that the prophet/later-revealed-to-be-god chuck that literally wrote the story of their lives is unsympathetic to him and also prefers dean. for good measure, i want to rewrite the french mistake and have the writers giggle about how they’re going to torture sam next because they and the audience think he deserves it. and make it so au jared knows about it too. let sam be repeatedly and mercilessly brutalized to an extremely comical degree because it’s entertaining to everyone in and out of universe. but he’s aware of this now and yet he still remains kind-hearted through it all because that’s what makes it so ludicrous and fun. make him think “it can’t get any worse than this” but it absolutely does.

keep the momentum of sam wanting nothing but to be good but have everyone else always treat him like he’s the problem. turn the truman show into the sam show. have single episode side characters break the fourth wall because their hate for sam is so strong just by being around him. make it extremely obvious that sam does nothing to warrant this and that he’s being gaslit in and out of universe. he can be aware of how strange this all is and wonder if he’s actually insane but the scene needs to change quickly so he doesn’t have time to fully deal with it because hurry sam there’s more pressing matters!! have him try to bring it up to other characters but they immediately change the subject until sam lets it go

have it be a social experiment, write dean to be even worse than he already his, more psychopathic super villain, see how far it can go before people turn on him (we all know they won’t). in each episode near the end have sam begin to truly realize that he needs to escape, but have him die a random death like in mystery spot which resets him for the next episode. the audience can even vote for what it will be each time. it’s cathartic for them. dean lets this happen because he needs his sammy to stay with him. keep the ending the same. sam marries his blurry wife and names his son dean jr, then sam joins dean in heaven for all eternity. don’t ever let him be free.

[antigonewinchester]

🔥 jack

I quite enjoy him as a character and dislike the majority of fandom discourse around him.

Jack is clearly favored by the writers & story in his seasons: he’s given the sympathetic cute white guy treatment in casting AlCal, he’s an entirely new character who becomes arguably the 3rd lead, he a part of major plots and has narrative focus**. given all that, I can very much see why some ppl dislike him, his role in the story, etc. hate away! but the other side of it, fandom’s woobification of him, making him literally a child, or downplaying his choices / agency / incredibly strong powers, is also incredibly boring. despite his narrative focus there’s room for a lot more fandom explorations of Jack.

Jack’s ending of becoming God was foreshadowed from S13 and I think the writers had something like it in mind from early on.

Kelly's death & sacrificing her life so Jack could live influenced him from Day 1 and Jack was going to have major guilt issues and feel like he had to do good / live a good life even if he hadn't been raised by Sam, Dean, Cas. some of Jack's issues are all his own.

S14 is by far the best Jack season and the tragedy of it doesn’t work unless Jack is actively making choices and has agency within his story—choosing to sacrifice his soul to save his family, choosing not to tell Sam & Dean (or Cas) about almost killing Stacy, choosing to brutally kill Nick, etc. 14x16 – 14x20 from Jack’s perspective is excruciating and that’s what makes it so good! put that guy through the horrors!! as messed up as 14x20 is, the fandom framing of Evil Abusive Dean going to kill Poor Sweet Jack misses 1) the deliberate narrative reversal of the beginning of the season w/ Jack saying they'd have to kill Michael!Dean to protect the world, and the season climax in Dean believing he has to kill Jack [and himself] to protect the world, What Could It Mean, and 2) Jack actively choosing mercy instead of fighting. Jack could’ve run or easily incapacitated / killed Dean with his powers but decides he'd rather die than risk hurting or killing someone else. which is a fucked up but compelling & interesting character choice!

speaking of 14x20, I’m surprised I’ve never seen a comparison between 4x20/4x21 and 14x19/14x20. [there’s… a very cynical meta-through-line I’ve thought about here, but I’m not sure if I’m reading too much into it.]

reveal of Sam drinking demon blood & his ‘monstrousness’ > Dean & Bobby lock Sam in the panic room > Sam breaks out thru angelic power > Dean goes to confront Sam

reveal of Jack killing Mary and his soullessness > Dean & Sam lock Jack in Ma’lak box > Jack breaks out using his angelic powers > Dean goes to confront Jack

**Dabb & his writers wanted to keep exploring generational traumas & familial cycles and brought in Jack to continue that thread as Sam & Dean had mostly worked thru their issues, but there’s a feel of warped or forced character development to make it all fit—say, Dean as Jack’s “cool uncle” is arguably more realistic given Dean’s understandable distrust of Jack and resistance to parenting him from early S13, but the writers wanted to explore the conflict of Dean as Jack’s father figure and so that’s what the dynamic had to become. so it's less that the characters are OOC but the way the writers approach it & the narrative framing of it all that's overly simplistic.

Send me a “ 🔥 ” for an unpopular opinion.

[holyfreaks]

Sam/Mary for the ship ask game

OOOO OKAY

okay so sam + mary has always driven me bonkers but like. in a jesus/mother mary kind of way. like pieta

I don't really view them in a romantic context (I feel like even though Mary was in the hunting life as well she is... more "normal" if that makes sense? like I feel like the way john raised the boys was so not normal even outside of the hunting thing. but that's another post). but also like. point me in the direction of some good fics or meta posts and I could be convinced.... 👀

my thoughts on them are: sam growing up saw her as more of a person than dean and john did in after her death. like dean and john saw her as the Perfect Mother and Perfect Wife (esp in the early seasons, before all the time travel stuff), almost like a Saint. and when she comes back I think sam can relate to her more than anybody else bc he never really saw her as that, he saw her as someone he never met but loves, he saw her as his mother but also a person who had hopes and dreams and a family. and I think mary can see that in sam. plus there's the whole "being raised in the life and wanted out and managed to get out before it dragged them back in by tragedy" thing they can bond over

I think sam might struggle at first in the fact that mary technically sold him to the devil in her deal with azazel but only for like a second. and then he forgives her bc he's sam winchester and he loves her and he's made deals before too

I was gonna add links to this post of some edits I think that helps encapsulates my feelings about them but they're not working so I'm just gonna rb them

idk if ANY of that made sense but yeah. them <3

send me a ship and I'll give you my (brutally) honest opinion about them

[shallowrambles]

OOF. Imaginary lovers never turn you down.

This is one of Dean's Harper-coded neuroses for sure.

I think because John was hot-and-cold caretaker, Dean is very...insecurely attached. Even as a child, we see him balking at Sam seeking college, to the point of accidentally smothering the dreams on occasion, and pressuring even when tries to be "sorta okay with it." (Like how we see him in Drag Me Away from You)

///

So anyway, it's a neurosis I love love love to see. Dean will use phrases like, "This isn't really you," and occasionally always-and-never statements whenever he's glomped on a brand new ally to fulfill the fantasy of "never letting him down / disappointing him." SUPERMAN, even. That old hero worship.

But much like with Harper Sayles, even Vance isn't Vance! And so, none of Dean's idealized figures are really them either. He struggles with balancing trust and instinct. (Note: This is how all relationships tend to work. It's what's so LOVELY about Dean growing through these imperfections. He gets older and wiser. "He can try to get better, every day.")

He eventually starts to accept the mistakes of his loved ones: Sam, Mary, Cas. HIMSELF. We see in s15 when he insists he always "knew Chuck was squirrelly" when he clearly didn't. Dean is so used to being right about people/intuition, it's REALLY had to swallow when he's dead wrong. "I didn't wanna admit I was wrong." (He got played by Crowley, by Cain, then Chuck. It sucks to get manipulated so thoroughly!)

///

Anyway. This theme of imperfection, of seeing one another is even what's driving SPNwin.

It asks the question: "What if mom and dad had been REALLY able to truly see one another?"

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ANYWAY, this stuck out to me!!! I don't know if I want it to be a meta or not, so it goes on the vent blog instead...

IN SEASON 10, Dean is spiraling and running. It doesn't matter who. He's disinhibited, used as a pawn to ensure a "rich man's" continued place as ruler, just as Michael would have used him as a sword to win a war/maintain power.

In season 9-10, Dean is vulnerable. He's reeling from rejection and being shunned for his mistakes. This makes so much sense in the terms of the scripted season 8, with Dean saying "I love you" and getting rejected by Cas, and then again for trying to save Sam's life and “trusting the wrong person" the way Cas (in parallel) trusted Metatron to try to protect others…

After spending all of season 8 coming to terms with the imperfections of his family and loosening up on some of his rigid expectations, after dealing with the complexity of both his little brother AND his would-be love interest, it all blows up in Dean’s face.

Itssooooooooo

//

-> Dean was rejected by his bro for trying to do the right thing, for trying an experimental treatment to save his life, which lead to both the unintended rejection of Cas and Kevin's death. (Sam will later "get Charlie killed" in his attempts to save Dean with ....an experimental hail-Mary.)

-> And in season 9, Cas got back into the Angel war, and Dean didn't like him being a military man again, fearing that it would be Groundhog day all over again. And so, Dean continued to spiral. He was continually paralleled with both Josie Sands-Henry relationship and Josie's shadow self, Abbadon, a knight of Hell, a shrieking wrathful pain.

Dean is become like knight of Hell Abaddon herself at first, before later reversing course to parallel another knight of Hell: Cain.

//

I think of this like Dean's reversal power arc. Dean is become like Rowena: I'll never be powerless again. And his whole world reverses: he gets to call out Sam for the evil Sam is doing, Sam gets to be the one who makes mistakes when trying to save him, and Cas gets the "wife" treatment instead of the war husband one.

Dean is the one to beat Cas up for once, and Cas is one of the characters who gets the brunt of Dean's brutality, because Cas is the one who hurt him the most.

Which brings me to this. Oof. Imaginary people. Imaginary lovers. Escape to the fantasy world. It doesn't matter WHO. Just keep running.

In season 9-10, Dean escapes more fully into a more extreme version of his season 8 neuroses, a world where no one lets him down, except this time he's flipping from imaginary person to person, searching for anyone that "won't let him down."

And guess what? The world still does. And Dean's tired already. Chasing freedom didn't free him or bring contentment.

With the toiling work of Hell on his tail, he runs again, this time to Anne-Marie, who despite his demonness and Crowley's ire, Dean seems to be catching feelings for. Crowley clocks it right away: "Damanged. I can see the old you falling for that."

(Because Dean already is. His humanity is a glimmer, but it's still there. We'll see it in demon Dean’s dispatchment of Lester rather than his assigned target, the wife.)

And more than that, Crowley misunderstands Dean's whole deal: that he is simply running. Running, running, running. Anyone will do.

"Somewhere else.” He says this to Anne-Marie. In a way Dean’s running is checking out of life, a bit like season 7 Cas (nihilism/existential crisis) and season 8 Sam (white picket fence as purely escapism).

But you can't run from yourself.

Dean's humanness hangs on, even in the midst of his Hell tasks, and his humanness persists even in seedy bars with random women-he-should-feel-nothing-for. It is a vexing thing.

He's supposed to feel nothing, to be a rolling stone.

And he isn't.

///

And Dean himself has been a little bit like Anne-Marie herself. It's an old wound by this point, but I see it as a nod to the whole Cas-Raphael thing.

Dean was so busy spiraling over Cas being in danger in s8-10 that he never had time to process all of what happened with Cas’s betrayal. He's still hurt.

And with s9 Cas rejoining the angels, though understandable and well-intentioned...it opened that old vein.

& things like this are in parallel too.

Cause Cas was saying he was doing it for Dean...and then he kept going, punishing Heaven. (There are real feelings for Dean in the mix, but nothing is singular…it’s always tied up in other things.)

I disagree with Metatron in saying that Cas “in love with humanity” solely explained his actions. Yes, Cas is motivated by protecting his human fam, but there have been incredible moments where he wanted to punish the other angels, where he inflicted unnecessary violence on demons (like the demon looting and fleeing Hell in 15x03 The Rupture.

Demon Dean’s “I protected your honor, didn't I?" sounds a lot to me like, Cas’s “Has any but your closest kin ever done more for you?"

Cas did all that for him, or so he said, and yet...

///

Because imho what was going one with Cas wasn't solely about protecting his human family.

There's other complicated stuff in the mix.

It was also about the feelings of betrayal BY Heaven. (Which is why he didn't even trust his own rebel angels!) Cas was utterly rejected by Heaven, MURDERED without a thought by Raphael.

Cas gave into his authoritarianism because he was angry. He was emotional and he was channeling that. They need a firm hand because he loves them. You know, like the specter of pizza man and the babysitter.

///

And yeah, it’s okay that Dean hasn't fully reckoned with that. Dean in s9 said, “Cas, I know you try to be a good guy, okay?" Anne-Marie...she almost...echoes that sentiment when she said “I thought you were a good guy playing bad.”

It's off-key, but it's...similar somehow.

I love that Cas toppled from the Superman pedestal, hitting at Dean's emotional interiority and challenges in the most extreme example possible!

I feel like Lily Sunder flirts with the shadow version of this, because when she first met Ishim, she thought he was PERFECT, too.

It's not one-to-one, but it sure as Hell is getting at Dean's "Cas makes so many mistakes" anxieties, which AU Michael will tap into, too!

But mistake-making IS humanity! AU Michael doesn't get that. (Metatron eventually will. "Sure they lie and they cheat and they steal...but they never give up. YOU do!")

///

So back to Anne-Marie. When she calls Dean on his deeper issues, he:

DEAN: *belittles her judgment and demeans her, calling her a skank* ANNE-MARIE: I'm so screwed up myself. I'm gonna walk out of here thinking I actually deserved that.

This conversation is a a little like this one, where Cas belittles Dean's human status. It's not *skank* but he does call him *just a man.*

CAS: You're just a man.

Anyway, when Dean starts becoming enamored with Anne-Marie, he's not only clinging to humanity, not only starting to love even when he isn’t supposed to be able to (another Cas parallel), he’s doing his own version of soul-searching, seeing himself in someone else.

But because this is his reversal arc, where HE has the power, he gets to be in Cas's more powerful position here and he gets to lecture Sam.

(Until Amara, ofc, where he will abruptly flip to a powerless default.)

ALSO!!!! There’s this swirling painful question of being nothing more than an EXCUSE to do violence…or used as THE MUSE to give another false person’s work “more importance.”

Dean is afraid he is both for Cas.

I mean. Cas left after season 5, after a weird convo where Dean tries to figure out if Cas plans to stay and/or cares about him by “fishing” for info.

Cas also left in season 8 to go and lock up Heaven behind him forever, etc etc.

Dean worries that he’s more muse than loved one. A banner to wave in the war. An excuse. Inspirational, at best.

///

And Dean is working through his defense mechanisms. And like I said, idealization is a normal part of most relationships.

It usually occurs in the early phases and signals immaturity. But choosing to move past these phases, choosing to stay with people and keep striving can be a wonderful theme of resilience, even if in SPN does it in extreme strokes.

///

And then we get MARY, the motherload of Dean's idealization.

In season 15, when Dean says, "My mom is my hero," he means it in a different way to his early idealizations. He means warts and all! It’s so great!

///

Which is why I love Optimism SOOOOOooooo much. You get Harper, who struggles with similar things...and we get that dynamic scene of her crowing about perfection is contrasted with Dean's wisdom he's giving to Jack!

BONUS thoughts:

Cas, Raphael, and Dean, and the triangle with Dean, Hell, and Anne-Marie reminds me of this SPNwin scene:

Ah, yes, another fave motif. The John-Cas-Jack boxing motif.

Anyhoo, we have John saying he wants to PROTECT Mary...to KEEP HER FROM DYING. He's doing this to protect her.

And...

Yeah, sometimes I will kiss Robbie on the mouth.

BONUS BONUS thought: in SPNprime, Mary does the same thing for her kids....resonating with John's journal and his fear. Mary dives head-first into trying to eradicate ALL the danger...to win the ENTIRE war so her sons can be safe.

(Aside///Samuel C does this in SPNwin too...with the box that would eat up all the evil in the world.)

I love the theme. Mary nearly destroys the thing she was wanting to protect in the first place. (Like Henry. Like John and his boys. Like so many others.)

BONUS:

It's not either/or! For the matter, why is it peace OR freedom, never both!

[lateral-org]

1 13 and 18!

1) Is John misunderstood or a villain?

False dichotomy here. I think John is well understood by many fans in that he was a traumatized man and absent father who indoctrinated his sons into a brutal and violent lifestyle (raised them to be soldiers). Like Henrikksen was pretty spot on when he called him a cult leader. The demons just happened to be real.

It's disgusting to me how much John actively avoided his sons during season 1. They didn't even know vampires were still around! (???) John would just drop a pin at a location and send them on goose chases and maybe grace them with his presence if he needed them or they literally tracked him down. Despicable parent behavior.

I don't think this makes him a "villain" though. He's not actively antagonizing the boys (other than giving them soooooo much trauma that they aren't gonna work through). Arguably the most villainous he is is when he tells Dean he's gonna have to kill Sam, and then he dies.

So I don't know. I think he's a shitty dad who fucked them over at every opportunity, but in my head there's nuance between that and villain.

13) Leather jacket or Mary’s ring?

I'm definitely forgetting or missed the lore about Mary's ring, I'm assuming its one of the rings Dean used to wear before Jensen decided no he wouldn't. Or maybe it's from s12? Either way it didn't leave an impact on me (feel free to send me meta to change my mind 👀)

If I have to choose based on symbolism, leather jacket. The leather jacket is such a strong visual signifier of John's impact on Dean's life (your car is his your clothes are his even your music is his etc) AND the fact that he sheds it after a while demonstrates his growth away from being John's shadow. (I know they lost it but still it works for me in canon)

A ring just doesn't have that same (hah) ring to it, especially in a live action show where we don't get that many lingering shots of hands, or insight into how Mary affected Dean.

However. If Sam was wearing Mary's ring... That's something I could get into. Something about Sam latching onto a piece of the mother he never knew, wearing it every day (maybe on a chain so he could hide it under his shirt). Sam wearing the ring when he meets Ruby, wearing it on his hand after Dean goes to hell and staring at it when he exorcises demons (he's doing it for Her but really he's doing it for himself, just like John)

Agh I'm driving myself crazy with this idea actually, maybe the ring if Sam gets to wear it

18) When did Supernatural start declining in quality? (If it did?)

Hahaha well

I'm currently rewatching it so it's fresh in my mind. I've always said 4 and 5 are my favorite seasons but rewatching really cemented that for me. Supernatural is a show that varies in quality season by season, and after a certain point it varies drastically episode by episode. Seasons 1 and 2 are really fucking solid, but season 3 sucks a lot in a lot of ways due to the writer's strike. Then 4 and 5 come in and pick up the pieces pretty effectively.

I think if you're looking for a cohesive show with an ending that makes sense and narrative themes that work, you stop at the end of season 5. Season 6 is a huge dip in quality for me. The first half of the season is so fucking boring and confusing, and by the time it gets it's act together it's time for the finale. But that also makes it similar to season 3, just if season 3 had time to redeem itself.

But I love season 7. I love the new characters and the leviathan and the weird 2011 liberal sensibilities. Season 8 is straight up a vampire diaries soap opera.

Visually the quality declines drastically after season 5. Seasons 4 and 5 use a lot of interesting framing and visual symbolism which stood out compared to the rest of the show, and a lot of that is absent post season 5. A few episodes try to recapture it but the direction becomes pretty generic. The color grading too suffers a lot. There have been so many meta posts about it but truly why does the show get so bright and colorful. I'm not supposed to be able to distinguish dark green from black.

Character writing also suffers post s5. They put the boys through the same wringer over and over and Dean gets angrier and Sam gets quieter and that's it. Not that there aren't good lines or arcs, it's just that compared to the content of the first 5 seasons it's worse.

Notable exceptions, like I said I like season 7. I also think 11 and 12 are good. Season 15 is fucking crazy and evil but it also has like. A plot. Like it's doing season 5 again but at least it knows where it's going.

But yeah. Decline after season 5

Spn Discourse ask game

[theyarebothgunshot]

The Winchesters is back from hiatus! Live-blogging in your inbox here lol:

-Carlos and Lata's friendship is quite possibly my favorite thing about this show. Love them so much! (And so, naturally, I'm very worried that they were be brutally killed off)

-ooh we have the aftermath of the kiss: no regrets, but also not ready to jump in (my god, Dean really is his mother's son lmao I hope they decide to make John and Mary essentially married before they ever acknowledge their feelings for each other again)

-Gabriel!! Gabriel!! I've been waiting for him to make an appearance! Okay, we know he likes to mess with perceptions, especially since in this time period, he's still undercover as Loki, so I'm keeping an eye on him on a meta-narrative level too (how is he affecting Dean's perceptions?)

-Aww Carlos wanted to be a musician: dreams deferred, hunting takes over everything and becomes an inescapable obsession

-John meeting Sam and almost immediately dropping this bomb: "the least you can do is treat her more like a daughter and less like a soldier" (pterodactyl screech)

-Well, we know the plan to kill Loki won't work, and I don't think he'll actually follow through with killing Carlos (Gabriel/Loki's pattern is to force people to recognize some truth they're unwilling to admit openly, so what's his game here?)

-Excellent needle-drop with "Saturday Night's Alright" lmao (very Shaun of the Dead fight sequence there)

-Ah, just making Carlos acknowledge how much everyone means to him and reconciling the two incompatible desires he has (to be part of this hunting family and to live a freer life of his own, be an artist)

-Time-traveling Dean gave John the letter!! (And yes, I already know about how Sam was photoshopped out of that shot lmao I'm sure there is a narrative reason for that -- maybe Gabriel related? Lens flashes are associated with angels, Gabriel messes with perceptions, etc. Funnier explanation, it's just Cas being a bitch to Sam because he likes to do that periodically. Actually I'm gonna go with that one!)

Honeymoon Anon

yesss they are back babeyyy!!! loved reading your thoughts, i'm also very excited to see where this all leads to!

[watchingspnagain]

Rewatching Fresh Blood

Welcome to “There’s More Than One Way to Behead a Vampire: A Supernatural Rewatch Blog” with Lor and Mace!

 Up today, s3e7: Fresh Blood.

   Sam and Dean stumble onto a vampire who's growing his vamp family by spiking women's drinks with his blood. Meanwhile Gordon (ugh) is back on their trail, but when he has a run-in with the drink-drugging sleazo, he gets turned himself. Even losing his humanity doesn't deter Gordon from his obsession with killing Sam, though, and now he's got vampire superstrength. Ooof. It all comes down to a mano a mano between Sam and Gordo, and Sam wins, killing Vamp!Gordon in a particularly savage way that takes Dean by surprise. The real winner in this episode, though, is Sterling K. Brown, who delivers a fantastic performance. Seriously, goosebumps.

  Below is a log of our real-time reactions as we watched. Remember that there may be spoilers for any part of SPN’s 15-season run here. Note also that the nature of our conversation is adult and thus it may contain adult language and themes.

   [and we begin:]

 Lor:

sigh Gordon

 Mace:

ugh Gordon

Mace:

 HAHAHAHA

 Lor:

lololololol

 Mace:

 “are you off your meds?”

 Lor:

i love how she just stares him down with her sass and logic

 Mace:

she’s smarter than you, Gordo

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

oh Dean, honey

 Mace:

ooof Dean

 Mace:

 that slightly crazy look in his eyes

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 Mace:

 oh look, it’s Harmony

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 come on, call him blondie bear

 Lor:

lololololololol

 Lor:

Sammy is worried

 Mace:

 HE IS

 Lor:

lol Dean's face

 Lor:

and Sam's good copping

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

"old like 30" EXCUSE YOU LUCY

 Mace:

HAHAHA RIGHT?!

 Mace:

aw, Sammy’s face

 Mace:

 he’s sad for her

 Lor:

yeah

 Lor:

Sam is all sympathetic and Dean can't believe how dumb she is

 Mace:

yep

 Mace:

“wavy gravy”

 Mace:

 DEAN

 Lor:

someone needs to hug that boy into a better attitude

 Mace:

 okay, I’ll hug the other one then

 Lor:

sounds like a plan

 Mace:

 YAS

 Lor:

oooof the wince

 Mace:

 yeah

 Lor:

GORDON

 Lor:

jeebus, man

 Mace:

 right?!

 Lor:

“one of them was real tall”

 Lor:

Sam Winchester is the only tall man in this world

 Mace:

 HAHAHAHA

 Lor:

I'm gonna need you to stop being so cavalier with your one precious life, Deano

 Lor:

LOCK THE DOOR

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

Dean, you’re not going to kill her.

 Mace:

 angry sex? maybe. but not murder.

 Lor:

right? no one believes you, Dean

 Lor:

I hope Sterling K. Brown is not actually lying on exposed rusty springs

 Mace:

 HA!

 Lor:

GORDON can lie there forever

 Mace:

YEP

 Mace:

 I do love the poetic justice here, though

 Lor:

YEP

 Lor:

lol Dean's little voice

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 he’s so good in this part even though i don’t like the character at all

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

I was just thinking that

 Lor:

I don't enjoy Gordon but SKB does an AMAZING job with the character

 Mace:

agreed

 Mace:

 “well, there’s hell” DEAN

 Lor:

"you ever felt desperate" and then the shot of Dean

 Mace:

 BABY

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

the way they're threading what's going on with Dean into the MoW stuff

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 and also Sam maybe not being quite human paralleled with Gordon becoming the monster he hates

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

that whole convo where Sam was fine with the idea of killing Gordon

 Mace:

 yeah and the way in which he actually does it

 Lor:

ooooof that moment where he collapses into Gordon's shoulder

 Mace:

yep

 Mace:

 “a massively dangerous day at the office"

 Lor:

for some reason the fact that Dean comes in and washes his face... strikes me? I don't know what it means or anything but

 Mace:

 we should track those times because it’s not the only time he does that

 Lor:

YES

  Mace:

 “more like a ninja"

 Lor:

LOL

 Mace:

 “it’s a little funny”

 Lor:

"it's a little funny"

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"what rhymes with shut up Sam?"

  Mace:

 oh god this Sam speech

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"this is exactly how you act when you're terrified"

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

"i wish you would drop the show and be my brother again" gaaaaaah

 Mace:

and Dean relents

 Mace:

 jesus

 Lor:

the way Dean gives in

 Lor:

and his FACE

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 a tacit admission that he’s scared

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"you don't kill innocent people. you're still a hunter"

 Lor:

the coooooode

 Lor:

I love a moral code

 Mace:

 it’s more of a guideline, really

 Lor:

LOLOLOLOL YES

 Mace:

“DAMMIT SAM”

 Mace:

 oh Dean

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"Sam be careful" pets him

 Lor:

Dean sure does fire his gun lying on his back a lot

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

HA

 Mace:

 ooof the look on Angry Sammy’s face

 Lor:

I'd forgotten Dean gets drunk from

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 Lor:

and this is such a GRUESOME way to kill him

 Mace:

 YEP

 Lor:

Sammy, please go get a tetanus shot

 Mace:

 lookit them

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 Deans face when he sees the headless body

 Lor:

"that's a little reckless doncha think?"

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

omg it's THIS SCENE

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

UGH

I’M NOT CRYING YOU ARE

 Lor:

NOPE IT'S YOU

 Mace:

YOU

 Mace:

 but also HOT

 Lor:

the way Sam doesn't catch on right away

 Mace:

Dean teaching car stuff

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

OMG DEAN'S PROFILE THERE

 Lor:

YAAAAAS

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 oh Sam’s face when he does get it

 Lor:

"you should know how to fix it. you're going to need to know these things for the future"

 Lor:

YAAAAS

 Mace:

 YAAAAS

 Lor:

and Dean's face when Sam takes it

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 damn

 Lor:

SITTING ON THE GREEN COOLER

 Lor:

"put your shoulder into it"

 Mace:

 YAAASS

 Lor:

I LOVE HIM

 Lor:

aaaaaah it's the Christmas one next. I LOVE THAT ONE

 Mace:

 WOOOOT

[shallowseeker]

Rambling about the Macleods and Castiel friendship today:

I looooove how Rowena and Crowley will go out of their way to annoy everyone:

Rowena (11x03)

Rowena: You wouldn't think a road trip with two such strapping lads could be this tedious. Shall we have a wee sing-song? Sam and Dean (in unison): No!

///

Crowley in early 12x03: YAY ROAD TRIP!

Unlike in the past, Crowley is making himself as ADORABLE AS POSSIBLE THIS SEASON, ESPECIALLY TO CAS. Hilarious change of tactics. Truly. Crowley and Rowena both want friends so badly!

Crowley singing!

12x03

&

Crowley singing again!

12x15

///

Crowley is ALSO blowing a lot of hot air this season. Which continues into the next episodes.

12x03

Cas, as usual, not reacting much to Crowley's attempts to wound. (This is partially why Crowley goads him; the game is in getting Cas to react, which... he almost never does.)

////

But it's is soooooo funny, though. Crowley calls himself a "Jay-Z" and a POWERFUL demon and keeps trying to make digs at Cas as only "kinda powerful"...

...and yet insisting Cas go ahead of him, BWAHAHA. I love Crowley so much. I never thought about how Metatron-coded hs is a lot of the time, and it's... hilarious. (I'm a huge Metatron girl, so.)

"You first, Cas, go go!"

//

Also, I'm 99% sure this is the era where Rowena notoriously flipped on Cas, deciding he was super desirable, and I'm 99% sure this drove Crowley insane.

///

Rowena is in her dating-any-men-possible era, and she instantly starts velcro-ing herself to Cas. Later we'll see her go, "Ooooh, is the handsome angel there. Hi, tweetie pie!"

////

But yeah. Metatron, Crowley, and Rowena want to be popular kids and have friends soooooooooooo bad and I love them all.

///

Literally, all Crowley wants from life is to steal Sam and Dean's (and Cas's) roles. As we saw in s10, he HATES work. He wants his life to be one long fun road trip, filled with booze and bar-hopping.

///

Also LOL at Sam assuming Rowena got some licks in and did some damage. I love that he has this wonderful assumption of Rowena's strength:

///

///

///

Crowley tries much harder than usual to muster up (transparent) bluster. He's feeling insecure, lost. He wants friends, family, security. I think he's partially throwing his weight around because Lucifer represents his deepest insecurity: his job.

Beating Lucifer is the last peak, and maybe if he climbs it, he thinks, his life will finally even out.

&

///

AHAHA. Crowley loves being annoying, and he loves trying to break Cas's poker face.

///

And speaking of uncool, Sam and Dean are pretty "uncool" this episode too, LOL!

&

VERSUS

Despite the others nagging him, it's CAS who establishes a rapport and gets the "in" this episode.

Cas does this being being unashamedly uncool, not being a yapping Hell-king, or trying to appear "hip" like Sam and Dean do.

///

And Cas's stoic heroism seems to rub off on him. Crowley, not willing to fight Lucifer for Rowena in 12x02:

Crowley, who deep down wants to be more heroic like Cas, Like "Superman"...

...Is now trying his best to be a little more of a hero, following Cas's lead (he says it's because he hates Lucifer, but we'll do Crowley take up for friends and even the rescued-girl-of-the-week in later eps: Stuck in the Middle (with you) AND Somewhere in Between Heaven and Hell.

///

A hero's entrance:

//

And again, I had a meta about this before, but it's sooooo interesting that Lucifer is using Cas as a Chuck-stand-in: "Took you long enough," like he's been waiting for Cas, specifically. Like he wants a reaction out of Cas specifically.

//

And you know what else is fun? Lucifer attacks Crowley brutally with a guitar

And two seconds later Cas doles out the same thing to Lucifer.

ANYWAY.

This is the era when Rowena starting referring to Cas as "the handsome angel," and he actually gets fidgety and shy about it, and Crowley is probably losing his mind over Rowena's developing crush on him, especially since Cas, by all appearances, treats Rowena so nicies in comparision to Crowley.

BUT! In the next episode, Cas is a little nicer to Crowley, playing along by calling him Agent Zappa. Seems like they're KINDA friends now.

[zmediaoutlet]

Do you think Dean would have any kinks he would be too embarrassed to share with Sam?

uh fam idk if you can hear this from here but let me try:

like, FUCKIN YES. So much yes. Beyond yes.

–that being said, obviously this depends on how you characterize your Dean-who-is-sleeping-with-Sam. (I assume that’s the context of this, and it’s not, like, actual Show Canon!Dean who’s just chatting away with Sam about his kinks. That dude would also probably not share some of his real kinks, but would make up silly shit specifically to torture his little brother.)

A wincest-possible Dean can be spun a bunch of different ways, clearly, and a lot of it depends on if you alter their background a little, or what you think Dean’s sexuality is (straight with an exception? fully bi? various flag-bearing options?), and how they get together, and when they get together, and when the conversation about kinks is happening. A defiantly mostly-queer toppy Dean who prostituted himself as a teenager who finally kissed Sam in s2 and thinks John’s opinion can go fuck itself–that guy is going to have a different conversation about it than a shamefaced “am I really bi? oh no?” 29 year old Dean who’s about to go to hell and can’t quite look Sam in the eye. It all depends.

Now, the way I prefer to write it, most of the time–I really, really like a Dean who struggles to look the full weight of his want in the face. Granted, I adore–ADORE–established-relationship married!chesters, and I love hedonist!Dean, and I love him being kind of… certain of Sam, in a way that maybe wasn’t possible when they were younger. Still, though: my understanding of Dean’s canon self folded into a wincest-possible Dean leaves a lot of room for… shame, basically, and the shame is where I think there’s a lot of interesting work to do.

As I mentioned recently, Sam and Dean are really very, very, very normal. Dean’s got a pretty meat-and-potatoes way of looking at the world, 90% of the time, and so I don’t necessarily want that to be totally removed even if he does take little brother d on the reg. (If the character’s wholly altered just because of buttsex, then why would I want to write or read about him? I still want him to feel like Dean, as much as possible.) So, what does a guy like Dean like? We get a lot of random info, and a lot of stuff he fantasizes about (hentai!! what a dingus), but when we actually see him have sex it is… boring, normal people sex. So the things he would think are kinky–they’re not necessarily that far out there. Getting tied up and panties, and maybe a little light domination, that’s like !! gosh!! alarm bells!! so kinky!! Those I think he wouldn’t have much trouble sharing with Sam, although it’s easy to extrapolate how it could be a major issue (and indeed I wrote like 60k on the subject).

The things I think would be really, really hard for that Dean to share? Again, it depends, but the things that come to mind first are the things that are… mentally and emotionally revealing. Like, what if he really wished Sam would dom the fuck out of him, but the reason isn’t because toppy Sam is sexy but because he has this inchoate wordless desire to fall so deep into subspace that he can’t think about how shitty he is? What if he craved praise? You can’t say that to your little brother–please tell me I’m worth something. What if he wanted something sharp and terrible that’d make Sam hurt to give it–what if he wanted the softest, gentlest domesticity, which they’ll never be able to have? It’s that stuff. He’d have no issue grinning at Sam and saying, “hey, let’s pretend you’re the robber and you’re tying me up and ravishing me.” That’s a shrug, that’s just for the lulz. It’s the stuff that means something that’s scary.

But oh man, when they get there.

[darkshrimpemotions]

This popped up in my notifications again and it's such a good addition and one of the reasons I emphasize whenever asked that this meta is looking at SPN through a very specific, limited lens. And also why I feel that SPN's homophobia problem is far more...solvable, shall we say...than its racism problem.

Like the homophobia of SPN is loud, but not deep. It could be more or less resolved with a few key tweaks to the narrative and characterization. Let Dean be openly queer. Don't kill off or disappear all the queer characters. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be miles better with just those two changes.

But the racism of SPN is DEEP. It can't be resolved by tweaking the plot a bit. It's in the worldbuilding, the casting, the writing, the humor, the basic premise and mythology of the show.

There's a whole concept of "Americana" that's central to SPN's entire deal, and that concept is inextricably tied to the country's history of white supremacy and colonialism. Even the "road story" format is pretty heavily tied to settler colonialism. The whole notion of some white working class middle American finding some essential Thing--be it self, purpose, home, etc.--by traversing the expanse of the country is just a reenactment of Manifest Destiny being played out over and over.

There isn't some easily-articulated overarching WHY behind the racism of SPN. It's in the unexamined biases of dozens of writers, casting directors, set dec, the show's creator, the material that inspired him. It's in the very history of the show's setting. It's in the lack of characters of color. It's in the roles they're chosen to play. It's in the way those characters are treated within the narrative, the way they're fridged or brutalized or forgotten. It's in the lack of awareness and examination in the writers' room across the board.

And it's also in the fandom.

I'll admit, limiting this meta as much as I did to only a queer lens only wasn't an active choice. I wrote about what I saw as a queer person. As a white person, especially 2-3 years ago, I didn't see the racist aspects of the show until it was pointed out to me. I mean I recognized that there were specific episodes that had issues, but I didn't see how racism and colonialism permeated everything in the show. And even after I began to learn, I didn't feel...qualified, for lack of a better word, to write extensively about it. I still don't feel qualified. But I don't think that excuses me from making the effort.

So yes. Deviance in service of the community still upholds the norm. That's a beautifully concise way to put it. In show, Dean and Sam have often framed it as sacrificing their chance at a normal life so someone else doesn't have to, or doing the work no one else can stomach. But ultimately, it's still acting as exterminators of the Other to protect the white middle class American dream. And Dean and Sam being positioned as at odds with the white American nuclear family thematically doesn't change the fact that they're also positioned as its xenophobic serial killing protectors narratively.

The reason SPN is both quintessentially queer and quintessentially homophobic is because it’s a straight man’s fanfiction of a queer text. That’s really it. It’s a straight man seeing the isolation and liminality and impermanence of queer life in the mid-20th century as told in On The Road and romanticizing it, and wanting to claim it for himself.

Which of course doesn’t work, because in positioning his main characters as protectors of the middle American heterosexual nuclear family, he has already fundamentally misunderstood them. Their very existence is something middle America views as a threat, and middle America is to these characters a trap, a prison, a slow death rather than a quick one for which they nevertheless yearn because we are all taught to do so. (Perhaps what they truly yearn for is to want that life, but I digress.)

The American road story, the drifter’s story, is a queer story. It is not compatible with the white picket fence, in fact the white picket fence’s primary purpose is to shut it out. The white picket fence is a symbol of stability, comfort, prosperity (conformity, stagnation). The road, on the other hand, is a symbol of upset, disquiet, transience (freedom, transformation). Adventure and uncertainty are the cornerstones of the road story. It simply makes no goddamn sense to take characters from the road story and position them as protectors of the middle American nuclear family when their very existence is positioned as a threat within the cultural context of middle America.

Keep reading

[keagan-ashleigh]

Hi! I don't know if I'm onto smg but I took some notes about the box's poem in The Winchesters, bc I felt like there was something weird in the way it seems to be a direct message to us...

Thought I'd share it here - those are unorganized thoughts, I will maybe go further into it later.

Follow the path of I toward Heaven

Second spot is four less seven

Find the fourth behind Hells door

Six suns set on the Western floor

I will always lead you there

Ending the darkness that we all fear

What is this referring to? (besides the obvious aka the way to open the box)

• ​Heaven is where Dean is currently, and maybe he wants to lead us there bc this is ultimately where is the thing he wants to show us

• "The path of I" - the way it implies "I" is a god-like entity, or God, even, who lives in Heaven. Spn has established God = the narrator so what if "I" here is the narrator?

• ​Imagine if numbers = spn seasons - s4 & s7 - s4 introduced Castiel (ohoh!) and 7 is the whole Leviathan and Godstiel thing, it's when Dean and Cas get sent in Purgatory. So - s4 less s7, means Castiel's arc story without his descent in madness? s7 is known to be the worst season for most - on a meta level: what would've happened if the situation had been different? What spot would they be in if s7 didn't happen ? What if Chuck didn't write it this way? idk

→ it's less like s7 and more like s4 ? will we get the thrill of this 1st meeting? given that TW tells the story of John & Mary's meeting - mirroring Cas/Dean meeting (cf the entrance scene in trailer), it's kind of a retelling of that story - second spot = second show, second story, we're getting back to that s4 moment, w less of s7 nonsense? or w/o s7 Cas & Dean separation?

s7 also first meeting w Charlie who had the other most brutal BYG of the show

Other interesting things abt s7: Dean forgives Cas, Bobby gets hurt, Dean sent back in time, the "facing your fears" episodes, intro of Kevin Tran, Sam haunted by Lucifer, etc...

But the main thing about s7 to me is how it ends w Purgatory AND the fact Cas wasn't planed to be a series regular this season (tvline 20th may 2011 see fr wiki)

• ​"find the fourth behind Hell's door",wow, if number = season, s4 being sent in Hell, like, the whole Castiel arc being sent to hell bc of the ultimate choices made in last season by writers/Chuck - also s4 starts w Dean in Hell, being raised from Hell by Castiel

• ​​Six suns set on Western floor - idk yet

- Sun: positive, light, warmth

Sunset : Dean driving in sunset

Sun setting: ending of day

- 6, 6 like what? dean + sam + cas + mary + john + jack: family?

6 main chars: Mary, John, Carlos, Latika, Ada, Millie

6 writers ? (which)

obv 6= hexagon (box shape)

Random: 6= Dream Theater, 6th song of second disc Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence: following 6 chars w diff mental illnesses

Aristotle's 6 elements of tragedy : plot (mythos (which means LIE lmao)), character (ethos), diction (lexis) , thought (dianoia), spectacle (scenic effect) (opsis), song (music) (melos)

In religion: seraphs have 6 wings, 6 points of David star, creation in 6 days, is "perfect number"

Also: virgo 6th astroloical western sign, sixth sense, us army radio call sign (rainbow six),

- western, cowboy hats

western: america? Hollywood ? western canada: Vancouver? idk

• ​I will always lead you there : Dean/Jensen saying "this is where I want this story to go, that's the plan"

• ​Ending the darkness that we all fear - in text the darkness we all fear is death, pain, suffering, and facing our sins, basically. The poem on a litteral level says tge suns/positive stuff will end death and suffering that demons represent. This much is obvious. You can't end death though, it's a natural thing that's meant to happen. Unless you're in a story and your death has been wrongly written UH OH we got something there ! 👀

• The darkness could very well be the Empty / bad writing / homophobia on a meta level. We all fear it, "we" the audiance, the queer audiance that's been here since s4. We all feared queerbaiting and Cas' death and Dean's death and that's what happened in spn. Jensen / Dean tells us, if he's speaking here, "fear not my gays, all will be well because this fear of yours is over, we're going to fix it, to cast the darkness (death & separation of those chars) away.

Note about the runes in the picture:

- ingwaz/ing (associated with Yngvi/Freyr - fertility god, commands rain and sun light, brother of Freyja goddess of love (and according to me goddess of shipping lol) ) / means protection

- not an original futhark - means energy, maybe a combination of the o and r of a latin version of the futhark / also looks like a reverse fehu + raidō (f and r) - I am not knowledgeable enough to trace its origins.

I am no expert I'm guessing by the look of the letters but go see the Wikipedia page.

In internet esoteric culture it's protection and energy.

Given that we know Richard is returning maybe foreshadowing Loki/Gabriel.

I don't know if it's right I just laid my thoughts randomly, it is not a completed work. The whole thing just sounds like Jensen/Dean talking directly to us about his plan in narrating this story, it makes a clear parallel between John and Mary and Dean and Cas, and also he takes Chuck's place here, in a way, and is going to set the record straight on it all, fix some wrongs, give a new frame of reference for reading spn, you know what I mean? Goes along with the whole "I'm chosing the music"/" the main villain is a DJ", etc, implying Dean is becoming the driver of the whole narrative. It's all very symbolic and I'm really liking the level of meta here.