#dean brutal meta

[ananke-xiii]

okay but hear me out: a SPN spin-off but instead of the characters we have the SPN writers in the writers' room and it's The Office-like.

[pendragony]

I've just finally worked out what Dean's face makes me think of here - it's the expression of a parent who's just been reunited with their lost child.

[keen-eye]

you know what would be so meta and funny (to me at least)

if in pac-man fever when charlie tells sam and dean that she read the supernatural books she also said she read fan forums and that apparently a lot of the audience really dislikes sam lmao. he’s already one of the most tragic characters ever for his treatment in universe (which i love) and out of universe (which i hate). let’s just amp it up because there’s no winning for him anyway

imagine if sam knew that the audience prefers dean and even supports his abuse of sam because dean is ultimately always viewed to be in the right. on top of knowing that the prophet/later-revealed-to-be-god chuck that literally wrote the story of their lives is unsympathetic to him and also prefers dean. for good measure, i want to rewrite the french mistake and have the writers giggle about how they’re going to torture sam next because they and the audience think he deserves it. and make it so au jared knows about it too. let sam be repeatedly and mercilessly brutalized to an extremely comical degree because it’s entertaining to everyone in and out of universe. but he’s aware of this now and yet he still remains kind-hearted through it all because that’s what makes it so ludicrous and fun. make him think “it can’t get any worse than this” but it absolutely does.

keep the momentum of sam wanting nothing but to be good but have everyone else always treat him like he’s the problem. turn the truman show into the sam show. have single episode side characters break the fourth wall because their hate for sam is so strong just by being around him. make it extremely obvious that sam does nothing to warrant this and that he’s being gaslit in and out of universe. he can be aware of how strange this all is and wonder if he’s actually insane but the scene needs to change quickly so he doesn’t have time to fully deal with it because hurry sam there’s more pressing matters!! have him try to bring it up to other characters but they immediately change the subject until sam lets it go

have it be a social experiment, write dean to be even worse than he already his, more psychopathic super villain, see how far it can go before people turn on him (we all know they won’t). in each episode near the end have sam begin to truly realize that he needs to escape, but have him die a random death like in mystery spot which resets him for the next episode. the audience can even vote for what it will be each time. it’s cathartic for them. dean lets this happen because he needs his sammy to stay with him. keep the ending the same. sam marries his blurry wife and names his son dean jr. then sam joins his abuser in heaven for all eternity. don’t ever let him be free.

azazel’s actor about sam

[shallowseeker]

Rambling about the Macleods and Castiel friendship today:

I looooove how Rowena and Crowley will go out of their way to annoy everyone:

Rowena (11x03)

Rowena: You wouldn't think a road trip with two such strapping lads could be this tedious. Shall we have a wee sing-song? Sam and Dean (in unison): No!

///

Crowley in early 12x03: YAY ROAD TRIP!

Unlike in the past, Crowley is making himself as ADORABLE AS POSSIBLE THIS SEASON, ESPECIALLY TO CAS. Hilarious change of tactics. Truly. Crowley and Rowena both want friends so badly!

Crowley singing!

12x03

&

Crowley singing again!

12x15

///

Crowley is ALSO blowing a lot of hot air this season. Which continues into the next episodes.

12x03

Cas, as usual, not reacting much to Crowley's attempts to wound. (This is partially why Crowley goads him; the game is in getting Cas to react, which... he almost never does.)

////

But it's is soooooo funny, though. Crowley calls himself a "Jay-Z" and a POWERFUL demon and keeps trying to make digs at Cas as only "kinda powerful"...

...and yet insisting Cas go ahead of him, BWAHAHA. I love Crowley so much. I never thought about how Metatron-coded Crowley can be a lot of the time, and it's... hilarious. (I'm a huge Metatron girl, so.)

"You first, Cas, go go!"

//

Also, I'm 99% sure this is the era where Rowena notoriously flipped on Cas, deciding he was super desirable, and I'm 99% sure this drove Crowley insane.

///

Rowena is in her dating-any-men-possible era, and she instantly starts velcro-ing herself to Cas. Later we'll see her go, "Ooooh, is the handsome angel there. Hi, tweetie pie!"

////

But yeah. Metatron, Crowley, and Rowena want to be popular kids and have friends soooooooooooo bad and I love them all.

///

Literally, all Crowley wants from life is to steal Sam and Dean's (and Cas's) roles. As we saw in s10, he HATES work.

He wants his life to be one long fun road trip, filled with booze and bar-hopping.

///

Also LOL at Sam assuming Rowena got some licks in and did some damage. I love that he has this wonderful assumption of Rowena's strength:

///

///

///

Crowley tries much harder than usual to muster up (transparent) bravado. He's feeling insecure, lost. He wants friends, family, security. I think he's partially throwing his weight around because Lucifer represents his deepest insecurity: his job.

Beating Lucifer is the last peak, and maybe if he climbs it, his life will finally even out.

&

///

AHAHA. Crowley loves being annoying, and he loves trying to break Cas's poker face.

///

And speaking of uncool, Sam and Dean are pretty "uncool" this episode too, LOL!

&

VERSUS

Despite the others nagging him, it's CAS who establishes a rapport and gets the "in" this episode.

Cas does this being being unashamedly uncool, not being a yapping Hell-king, or trying to appear "hip" like Sam and Dean do.

///

And Cas's stoic heroism seems to rub off on him. First, Crowley was not not willing to fight Lucifer for Rowena in 12x02:

But then Crowley, who deep down wants to be more heroic like Cas, Like "Superman"... does this:

Now, he’s trying his best to be a little more of a “hero,” following Cas's lead (he says it's because he hates Lucifer, but we'll shortly see Crowley take up for friends and even the rescued-girl-of-the-week in later eps: Stuck in the Middle (with you) AND Somewhere in Between Heaven and Hell.

///

Cas: A hero's entrance:

//

And again, I had a meta about this before, but it's sooooo interesting that Lucifer is using Cas as a Chuck-stand-in: "Took you long enough," like he's been waiting for Cas, specifically. Like he wants a reaction out of Cas specifically.

//

And you know what else is fun? Lucifer attacks Crowley brutally with a guitar

And shortly later, Cas doles out the same thing to Lucifer.

ANYWAY.

This is the era when Rowena starting referring to Cas as "the handsome angel," and Cas actually gets fidgety and shy about it, and Crowley is probably losing his mind over Rowena's developing crush on him, especially since Cas, by all appearances, treats Rowena so nicies in comparision to Crowley.

BUT! In the next episode, Cas is a little nicer to Crowley, playing along by calling him Agent Zappa. Seems like they're KINDA friends now.

[mediawhatwiveswatch]

The Wives Watch: Supernatural S2 E17-E22

Happy Valentine's Day 💕 Before we started we were researching different degrees of murder and various restrictions/additions to murder law. We think the boys can be held to every single one of them.

For one night only we will be Murder Lawyering the boys referencing American case law

E17 - Not All Dogs Go To Heaven

Can werewolves get rabies?

Cold Open - Is that Bucky Barnes????

That is the most inefficient way of filling up a coffee pot

Do they sew up dead people after they get slashed?

Creepy neighbour guy

(Wife 1 Predicts Neighbour Guy Is Werewolf - "He has werewolf vibes" - she watches Wolfblood she knows these things)

The Wife Watch Cinematic Universe has extended into SuperWhoLockInBlood (+merlin, +wolfblood)

Rock paper scissors for who gets to talk to a woman

This woman is really not being subtle and yet Sam is still struggling

This man had a long term relationship how can he not talk to women

Sam getting to watch actual TV for the first time in months

Sam keeps up with the Kardashians

(Wife A Predicts Lady Is A Werewolf And Ex Is Stalking Her To Try And Kill Her)

Strip Club Spying

Seriously how can the lesbians clock a vibe and he cant????

(Wife A is vindicated)

Okay so from this girls perspective this is actually terrifying. Like some guy shows up and insists on staying at your house then you wake up naked with a cut on your arm and get tied to a chair by this guy who admitted to lying about being a cop

Girlie looks really like the actress who cancelled Ellen

(Wife 1 is vindicated)

So killing the pretty lady, absolutely not shes innocent she doesnt know what shes doing! Killing neighbour man, oops oh well had to be done

Dean trying to wingman his brother while also hating the idea of being a third wheel

Sometimes you just gotta hook up with a former werewolf (is this the first Sex Scene in the show)

"What if he wakes up and theres just a fucking terrier in the bed"

Wolfwoman Roll Out

Dean really wants to shoot a werewolf. He is being denied the opportunity to shoot another werewolf. Sam does not want to shoot the werewolf

Any woman who spends more time with Sam than Dean is gonna get got

INSANE WAY TO END AN EPISODE

Murder Degrees of Episode 17 (Based on California State Law):

Dean: 1 count of 2nd degree murder (killing in defence of another)

Sam: 1 count of 3rd degree murder (assisting a suicide)

Both counts included a gun which increases the sentence

S18 - He's One Hellova PA

Dean is living his best life recently

B-list horror films how we love you so

Dean when theres a case in hollywood: THIS IS GONNA RUIN THE TOUR

The meta of having your set be a set

Honestly the suit is right about having good lighting in horror films and he should say it

"Whats a PA" "They're kinda like slaves"

Sam is gonna be a vegan by the end of this show. Calling it now

Anytime the boys talk to a woman we actively yell "walk away"

Dean being a b-list horror fan is very on brand

He would love Zombeavers

If a horror film went "demons must have super hearing" it would go in our top 5 films immediately

Producer gets hung "we had a moment of silence for him at breakfast"

HOW DID DEAN GET A HEADSET??

Dean just wants a normal job

The effects on the ghosts are very cool

Producer got final destinationed

Trailer in the middle of an episode is so fun!

Is Dean the voiceover guy??

The ghosts have unionised!

"Maybe the ghosts want to stop the film cuz it sucks" Sam support your brothers interests

Walter is doing the most

Are you ready for FAN PART 2

This is giving 13 ghosts and thats awesome

The phone screen ghosts feels like Duck Hunt

Motorola ad

Real anti-capitalist messages this episode

Dean's really been having fun

Murder Degrees of Episode 18 (Based on California State Law):

Technically no murder?

Could argue for solicitation of murder but soliciting ghosts isnt a crime

[[At this point we decided to speedrun the rest of S2]]

S19 - Police Brutality: The Episode

This episode is about a guy pretending to be a corrupt police officer to convince corrupt police officers to leave the boys alone while they hunt a dead corrupt prison worker

FBI Episode lets gooooo

Randall fully knew what was going on with that guard

The boys commit crimes badly on purpose

Its official! 3 counts of 1st degree murder

So like they are considered criminal masterminds who are wanted by the FBI and they're hanging out in a county jail

Like theres probably someone the next cell over who forgot to pay a parking fine

Dean says fuck Texas (Hes right)

Dean causes problems immediately and gets hit with an automatic Geneva convention violation

Do jails even have solitary??

TV show or not you can't act hard and say freaking

The ghost effects are so goooddd

Public Defender lady is awesome. First cop to have braincells

Dean is already king of the cell block

GET EM TINY I LOVE YOU

Do they put inmates in cages in med bays??

The ghost reveal is very well done

Dean is somehow still having a good time

Public Defender is coming through as promised

Dean really geared up for that punch on Deacon

"We're wanted for so many crimes quick put on the clothes you wear every week and jump in our highly recognisable car"

Don't think Henrickson understands how laws work

SWAT team on route but the boys gotta watch the fire for a bit

Public Defender said lie to the Feds (Shes right)

Slay queen what an icon 💅

Murder Degrees of Episode 19 (Based on California State Law):

Technically no murder again

confirmed 3 counts of first degree (actually way more for sure)

E20 - Dean gets Trolley Problemed

Sometimes a family is your dead mum, your brother who hates you, his fiance who got ceilinged, and a beer advert model

Both immediately "Ooohhh typewriter"

Deans dream life is to have a hot girlfriend and to watch Day of the Trifids

Was this genie up all night photoshopping family photos

His dream is for Sammy to go to college <3

Dean doesn't know how to interact with his mum

Angels watching over you???

Dean got to go to high school finally

Even in his dream life Dadchester is dead

Dean is actually John's biggest hater. We didn't recognise your game

Multiple people have asked Dean if he's drunk. If this is how a drunk person acted we'd be so concerned

Dean is continuing his streak of Having A Good Time

Dean's dream job is in a garage

He dreams of being a terrible brother? And a bad son?

Dean's getting Wonderful Life-d

Dean is no longer Having A Good Time

Getting the good silver

Honestly banger episode concept

AU Sammy has no survival instincts

Jinn is putting a lot of effort into convincing him to stay

Everyone gets a monologue

"In here we're a family. Your brother hates you and everyone thinks you're a deadbeat alcoholic"

Real Brothers Unite

Murder Degrees of Episode 20:

2nd degree murder of the Jinn but they also saved someone so like we cool?

S21 - Sam Gets Got

The ceiling babies get Hunger Game'd

OOOOOOOHHHHHH THINGS ARE HAPPENING

Sam got ren faire'd over pie

RIP to Deans happy streak

Andy is high. Good lad

Ava and Andy are LOSING IT

Jake and Lily are TOO CALM

PARTY MAN ASH NOOOOOO

ELLEN NOOOOOO

Andy buddy, forcing someone to watch gay porn in their mind is sexual harassment

If it weren't for the demons, this town would be so sick to explore

Bury your gays x2

Dean getting a taste of what Sam's had to deal with

Jake and Sam are bonding which either means he's about to die or about to betray

It's Sam's turn to get the guilt

AVA NOOO

Ava realising she can't lie to the ghost hunter

Jake sent Ava to go see the rabbits god damn

Did Yellow Eye Guy just like BCC all the ceiling babies on the same spiel

JAKE THERE WAS NO NEED

SAM GOTTEN GOT

"It's my job to take care of my little brother" DEAN BABY NO

Murder Degrees of Episode 21:

Jake got at least 2 1st degrees and betting hes gonna get more

S22 - Dean, Deals, and Demons

OUR BOYS

Bobby is trying to dad so hard and Dean DOES NOT NEED IT

Jake you can't blame Yellow Eye Guy

"You made me kill those people" WHO MADE YOU DO WHAT EXACTLY

Dean sweetheart, your gonna do something stupid we know it

Imagine trying to make a deal for your soul and getting told it aint worth it bro

Dean is managing to pull celestials from both sides. Bros got game even in grief

SAM GONE BE MAD AT YOU

BOBBY IS GONNA BE MORE MAD

Bobby adopted Dean and Dean adopted Sam

Fuck Wyoming apparently. Nobody likes squares

Bobby said get self esteem or get out

ELLEN!!

Samuel Colt was On One. This is what happens when you touch too much grass

(NGL Yellow Eye Guy is actually funny)

THERE ARE 4 OF THEM! ONE OF YOU SHOOT HIM!

OH HE TARGETTING ELLEN. SEXIST DEMON HELPER

YOU CAN OUTSHOOT HIM STOP PUTTING YOUR GUNS DOWN

WHY ARE NONE OF THEM PULLING OUT THE GUN!!!!!!

DONT NEED ALL 3 OF YOU TO WATCH SAM LOSE IT

SAM YOU HAVE LIKE CEILING BABY POWERS HELP THEM CLOSE THE DOOR

Yellow Eye Guy has big Willem DeFeo energy

GOD DAMN IT JOHN IS BACK

Demon Dead!! End of Show!!

All 3 of the Winchesters have been dead. Trauma Bonded

He didn't go back down? Who knows where he's gone. Hopefully dissipated never to return

The brothers got a year to live it up. Next season is a season long beach episode

God please give Dean therapy. God give him self esteem and joy. God please. Please God please

Does angel dude help him not be sad? Please say yes. We need to know. Unless the answer is no. Then say nothing.

Murder Degrees of Episode 22:

Sam got Jake but that's like life for a life so

Everyone but Ellen got a shot in

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH VERY LONG POST. 7 hour marathon. Can't wait for S3. Wishing for good fortunes for the boys. Bobby legally adopt these adult men

Season 2 general wrap up + thoughts post coming soon to a cinema near you

{{ 13% through }}

[mydemondetoxmanual]

Rewatching SPN is such a journey tbh.

Like Cas falls for Dean Winchester in season 4. And the writer told us we were wrong and the internet said we were wrong hell the actors said we were wrong. Being a teenager and trying to understand your own identity and watching a show you love bash its brains in. It’s watching Cas rebel against his own family, his own morals; against heaven, hell, God for one man and realizing that’s what love is. Love is brutal and broken and not perfect syrupy sweet. It’s work but not to me not if it’s you.

They made a love story without trying and mocked us to tell us we were wrong. What is love if not standing in the face of cruelty? Did they mean for it to be that meta? Love is accepting the worst parts of something and loving it anyways. The show is bad and terrible and I’ll love it until my dying breath.

Dean dies without ever saying I love you back. A man doomed to a narrative he never wanted. He wanted love and family. He died before his family and his love is ripped away. A show doomed to its worst parts of itself.

Anyways I start season 6 today :))

[antigonewinchester]

🔥 jack

I quite enjoy him as a character and dislike the majority of fandom discourse around him.

Jack is clearly favored by the writers & story in his seasons: he’s given the sympathetic cute white guy treatment in casting AlCal, he’s an entirely new character who becomes arguably the 3rd lead, he a part of major plots and has narrative focus**. given all that, I can very much see why some ppl dislike him, his role in the story, etc. hate away! but the other side of it, fandom’s woobification of him, making him literally a child, or downplaying his choices / agency / incredibly strong powers, is also incredibly boring. despite his narrative focus there’s room for a lot more fandom explorations of Jack.

Jack’s ending of becoming God was foreshadowed from S13 and I think the writers had something like it in mind from early on.

Kelly's death & sacrificing her life so Jack could live influenced him from Day 1 and Jack was going to have major guilt issues and feel like he had to do good / live a good life even if he hadn't been raised by Sam, Dean, Cas. some of Jack's issues are all his own.

S14 is by far the best Jack season and the tragedy of it doesn’t work unless Jack is actively making choices and has agency within his story—choosing to sacrifice his soul to save his family, choosing not to tell Sam & Dean (or Cas) about almost killing Stacy, choosing to brutally kill Nick, etc. 14x16 – 14x20 from Jack’s perspective is excruciating and that’s what makes it so good! put that guy through the horrors!! as messed up as 14x20 is, the fandom framing of Evil Abusive Dean going to kill Poor Sweet Jack misses 1) the deliberate narrative reversal of the beginning of the season w/ Jack saying they'd have to kill Michael!Dean to protect the world, and the season climax in Dean believing he has to kill Jack [and himself] to protect the world, What Could It Mean, and 2) Jack actively choosing mercy instead of fighting. Jack could’ve run or easily incapacitated / killed Dean with his powers but decides he'd rather die than risk hurting or killing someone else. which is a fucked up but compelling & interesting character choice!

speaking of 14x20, I’m surprised I’ve never seen a comparison between 4x20/4x21 and 14x19/14x20. [there’s… a very cynical meta-through-line I’ve thought about here, but I’m not sure if I’m reading too much into it.]

reveal of Sam drinking demon blood & his ‘monstrousness’ > Dean & Bobby lock Sam in the panic room > Sam breaks out thru angelic power > Dean goes to confront Sam

reveal of Jack killing Mary and his soullessness > Dean & Sam lock Jack in Ma’lak box > Jack breaks out using his angelic powers > Dean goes to confront Jack

**Dabb & his writers wanted to keep exploring generational traumas & familial cycles and brought in Jack to continue that thread as Sam & Dean had mostly worked thru their issues, but there’s a feel of warped or forced character development to make it all fit—say, Dean as Jack’s “cool uncle” is arguably more realistic given Dean’s understandable distrust of Jack and resistance to parenting him from early S13, but the writers wanted to explore the conflict of Dean as Jack’s father figure and so that’s what the dynamic had to become. so it's less that the characters are OOC but the way the writers approach it & the narrative framing of it all that's overly simplistic.

Send me a “ 🔥 ” for an unpopular opinion.

[holyfreaks]

Sam/Mary for the ship ask game

OOOO OKAY

okay so sam + mary has always driven me bonkers but like. in a jesus/mother mary kind of way. like pieta

I don't really view them in a romantic context (I feel like even though Mary was in the hunting life as well she is... more "normal" if that makes sense? like I feel like the way john raised the boys was so not normal even outside of the hunting thing. but that's another post). but also like. point me in the direction of some good fics or meta posts and I could be convinced.... 👀

my thoughts on them are: sam growing up saw her as more of a person than dean and john did in after her death. like dean and john saw her as the Perfect Mother and Perfect Wife (esp in the early seasons, before all the time travel stuff), almost like a Saint. and when she comes back I think sam can relate to her more than anybody else bc he never really saw her as that, he saw her as someone he never met but loves, he saw her as his mother but also a person who had hopes and dreams and a family. and I think mary can see that in sam. plus there's the whole "being raised in the life and wanted out and managed to get out before it dragged them back in by tragedy" thing they can bond over

I think sam might struggle at first in the fact that mary technically sold him to the devil in her deal with azazel but only for like a second. and then he forgives her bc he's sam winchester and he loves her and he's made deals before too

I was gonna add links to this post of some edits I think that helps encapsulates my feelings about them but they're not working so I'm just gonna rb them

idk if ANY of that made sense but yeah. them <3

send me a ship and I'll give you my (brutally) honest opinion about them

[lateral-org]

1 13 and 18!

1) Is John misunderstood or a villain?

False dichotomy here. I think John is well understood by many fans in that he was a traumatized man and absent father who indoctrinated his sons into a brutal and violent lifestyle (raised them to be soldiers). Like Henrikksen was pretty spot on when he called him a cult leader. The demons just happened to be real.

It's disgusting to me how much John actively avoided his sons during season 1. They didn't even know vampires were still around! (???) John would just drop a pin at a location and send them on goose chases and maybe grace them with his presence if he needed them or they literally tracked him down. Despicable parent behavior.

I don't think this makes him a "villain" though. He's not actively antagonizing the boys (other than giving them soooooo much trauma that they aren't gonna work through). Arguably the most villainous he is is when he tells Dean he's gonna have to kill Sam, and then he dies.

So I don't know. I think he's a shitty dad who fucked them over at every opportunity, but in my head there's nuance between that and villain.

13) Leather jacket or Mary’s ring?

I'm definitely forgetting or missed the lore about Mary's ring, I'm assuming its one of the rings Dean used to wear before Jensen decided no he wouldn't. Or maybe it's from s12? Either way it didn't leave an impact on me (feel free to send me meta to change my mind 👀)

If I have to choose based on symbolism, leather jacket. The leather jacket is such a strong visual signifier of John's impact on Dean's life (your car is his your clothes are his even your music is his etc) AND the fact that he sheds it after a while demonstrates his growth away from being John's shadow. (I know they lost it but still it works for me in canon)

A ring just doesn't have that same (hah) ring to it, especially in a live action show where we don't get that many lingering shots of hands, or insight into how Mary affected Dean.

However. If Sam was wearing Mary's ring... That's something I could get into. Something about Sam latching onto a piece of the mother he never knew, wearing it every day (maybe on a chain so he could hide it under his shirt). Sam wearing the ring when he meets Ruby, wearing it on his hand after Dean goes to hell and staring at it when he exorcises demons (he's doing it for Her but really he's doing it for himself, just like John)

Agh I'm driving myself crazy with this idea actually, maybe the ring if Sam gets to wear it

18) When did Supernatural start declining in quality? (If it did?)

Hahaha well

I'm currently rewatching it so it's fresh in my mind. I've always said 4 and 5 are my favorite seasons but rewatching really cemented that for me. Supernatural is a show that varies in quality season by season, and after a certain point it varies drastically episode by episode. Seasons 1 and 2 are really fucking solid, but season 3 sucks a lot in a lot of ways due to the writer's strike. Then 4 and 5 come in and pick up the pieces pretty effectively.

I think if you're looking for a cohesive show with an ending that makes sense and narrative themes that work, you stop at the end of season 5. Season 6 is a huge dip in quality for me. The first half of the season is so fucking boring and confusing, and by the time it gets it's act together it's time for the finale. But that also makes it similar to season 3, just if season 3 had time to redeem itself.

But I love season 7. I love the new characters and the leviathan and the weird 2011 liberal sensibilities. Season 8 is straight up a vampire diaries soap opera.

Visually the quality declines drastically after season 5. Seasons 4 and 5 use a lot of interesting framing and visual symbolism which stood out compared to the rest of the show, and a lot of that is absent post season 5. A few episodes try to recapture it but the direction becomes pretty generic. The color grading too suffers a lot. There have been so many meta posts about it but truly why does the show get so bright and colorful. I'm not supposed to be able to distinguish dark green from black.

Character writing also suffers post s5. They put the boys through the same wringer over and over and Dean gets angrier and Sam gets quieter and that's it. Not that there aren't good lines or arcs, it's just that compared to the content of the first 5 seasons it's worse.

Notable exceptions, like I said I like season 7. I also think 11 and 12 are good. Season 15 is fucking crazy and evil but it also has like. A plot. Like it's doing season 5 again but at least it knows where it's going.

But yeah. Decline after season 5

Spn Discourse ask game

[saratsuzuki]

Riverton, Wyoming: January 24th, 1996.

[watchingspnagain]

Rewatching Fresh Blood

Welcome to “There’s More Than One Way to Behead a Vampire: A Supernatural Rewatch Blog” with Lor and Mace!

 Up today, s3e7: Fresh Blood.

   Sam and Dean stumble onto a vampire who's growing his vamp family by spiking women's drinks with his blood. Meanwhile Gordon (ugh) is back on their trail, but when he has a run-in with the drink-drugging sleazo, he gets turned himself. Even losing his humanity doesn't deter Gordon from his obsession with killing Sam, though, and now he's got vampire superstrength. Ooof. It all comes down to a mano a mano between Sam and Gordo, and Sam wins, killing Vamp!Gordon in a particularly savage way that takes Dean by surprise. The real winner in this episode, though, is Sterling K. Brown, who delivers a fantastic performance. Seriously, goosebumps.

  Below is a log of our real-time reactions as we watched. Remember that there may be spoilers for any part of SPN’s 15-season run here. Note also that the nature of our conversation is adult and thus it may contain adult language and themes.

   [and we begin:]

 Lor:

sigh Gordon

 Mace:

ugh Gordon

Mace:

 HAHAHAHA

 Lor:

lololololol

 Mace:

 “are you off your meds?”

 Lor:

i love how she just stares him down with her sass and logic

 Mace:

she’s smarter than you, Gordo

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

oh Dean, honey

 Mace:

ooof Dean

 Mace:

 that slightly crazy look in his eyes

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 Mace:

 oh look, it’s Harmony

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 come on, call him blondie bear

 Lor:

lololololololol

 Lor:

Sammy is worried

 Mace:

 HE IS

 Lor:

lol Dean's face

 Lor:

and Sam's good copping

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

"old like 30" EXCUSE YOU LUCY

 Mace:

HAHAHA RIGHT?!

 Mace:

aw, Sammy’s face

 Mace:

 he’s sad for her

 Lor:

yeah

 Lor:

Sam is all sympathetic and Dean can't believe how dumb she is

 Mace:

yep

 Mace:

“wavy gravy”

 Mace:

 DEAN

 Lor:

someone needs to hug that boy into a better attitude

 Mace:

 okay, I’ll hug the other one then

 Lor:

sounds like a plan

 Mace:

 YAS

 Lor:

oooof the wince

 Mace:

 yeah

 Lor:

GORDON

 Lor:

jeebus, man

 Mace:

 right?!

 Lor:

“one of them was real tall”

 Lor:

Sam Winchester is the only tall man in this world

 Mace:

 HAHAHAHA

 Lor:

I'm gonna need you to stop being so cavalier with your one precious life, Deano

 Lor:

LOCK THE DOOR

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

Dean, you’re not going to kill her.

 Mace:

 angry sex? maybe. but not murder.

 Lor:

right? no one believes you, Dean

 Lor:

I hope Sterling K. Brown is not actually lying on exposed rusty springs

 Mace:

 HA!

 Lor:

GORDON can lie there forever

 Mace:

YEP

 Mace:

 I do love the poetic justice here, though

 Lor:

YEP

 Lor:

lol Dean's little voice

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 he’s so good in this part even though i don’t like the character at all

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

I was just thinking that

 Lor:

I don't enjoy Gordon but SKB does an AMAZING job with the character

 Mace:

agreed

 Mace:

 “well, there’s hell” DEAN

 Lor:

"you ever felt desperate" and then the shot of Dean

 Mace:

 BABY

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

the way they're threading what's going on with Dean into the MoW stuff

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 and also Sam maybe not being quite human paralleled with Gordon becoming the monster he hates

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

that whole convo where Sam was fine with the idea of killing Gordon

 Mace:

 yeah and the way in which he actually does it

 Lor:

ooooof that moment where he collapses into Gordon's shoulder

 Mace:

yep

 Mace:

 “a massively dangerous day at the office"

 Lor:

for some reason the fact that Dean comes in and washes his face... strikes me? I don't know what it means or anything but

 Mace:

 we should track those times because it’s not the only time he does that

 Lor:

YES

  Mace:

 “more like a ninja"

 Lor:

LOL

 Mace:

 “it’s a little funny”

 Lor:

"it's a little funny"

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"what rhymes with shut up Sam?"

  Mace:

 oh god this Sam speech

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"this is exactly how you act when you're terrified"

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

"i wish you would drop the show and be my brother again" gaaaaaah

 Mace:

and Dean relents

 Mace:

 jesus

 Lor:

the way Dean gives in

 Lor:

and his FACE

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 a tacit admission that he’s scared

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"you don't kill innocent people. you're still a hunter"

 Lor:

the coooooode

 Lor:

I love a moral code

 Mace:

 it’s more of a guideline, really

 Lor:

LOLOLOLOL YES

 Mace:

“DAMMIT SAM”

 Mace:

 oh Dean

 Lor:

YES

 Lor:

"Sam be careful" pets him

 Lor:

Dean sure does fire his gun lying on his back a lot

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

HA

 Mace:

 ooof the look on Angry Sammy’s face

 Lor:

I'd forgotten Dean gets drunk from

 Lor:

RIGHT?

 Lor:

and this is such a GRUESOME way to kill him

 Mace:

 YEP

 Lor:

Sammy, please go get a tetanus shot

 Mace:

 lookit them

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 Deans face when he sees the headless body

 Lor:

"that's a little reckless doncha think?"

 Lor:

YES

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

omg it's THIS SCENE

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

UGH

I’M NOT CRYING YOU ARE

 Lor:

NOPE IT'S YOU

 Mace:

YOU

 Mace:

 but also HOT

 Lor:

the way Sam doesn't catch on right away

 Mace:

Dean teaching car stuff

 Mace:

 YES

 Lor:

OMG DEAN'S PROFILE THERE

 Lor:

YAAAAAS

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 oh Sam’s face when he does get it

 Lor:

"you should know how to fix it. you're going to need to know these things for the future"

 Lor:

YAAAAS

 Mace:

 YAAAAS

 Lor:

and Dean's face when Sam takes it

 Mace:

YES

 Mace:

 damn

 Lor:

SITTING ON THE GREEN COOLER

 Lor:

"put your shoulder into it"

 Mace:

 YAAASS

 Lor:

I LOVE HIM

 Lor:

aaaaaah it's the Christmas one next. I LOVE THAT ONE

 Mace:

 WOOOOT

[zmediaoutlet]

Do you think Dean would have any kinks he would be too embarrassed to share with Sam?

uh fam idk if you can hear this from here but let me try:

like, FUCKIN YES. So much yes. Beyond yes.

–that being said, obviously this depends on how you characterize your Dean-who-is-sleeping-with-Sam. (I assume that’s the context of this, and it’s not, like, actual Show Canon!Dean who’s just chatting away with Sam about his kinks. That dude would also probably not share some of his real kinks, but would make up silly shit specifically to torture his little brother.)

A wincest-possible Dean can be spun a bunch of different ways, clearly, and a lot of it depends on if you alter their background a little, or what you think Dean’s sexuality is (straight with an exception? fully bi? various flag-bearing options?), and how they get together, and when they get together, and when the conversation about kinks is happening. A defiantly mostly-queer toppy Dean who prostituted himself as a teenager who finally kissed Sam in s2 and thinks John’s opinion can go fuck itself–that guy is going to have a different conversation about it than a shamefaced “am I really bi? oh no?” 29 year old Dean who’s about to go to hell and can’t quite look Sam in the eye. It all depends.

Now, the way I prefer to write it, most of the time–I really, really like a Dean who struggles to look the full weight of his want in the face. Granted, I adore–ADORE–established-relationship married!chesters, and I love hedonist!Dean, and I love him being kind of… certain of Sam, in a way that maybe wasn’t possible when they were younger. Still, though: my understanding of Dean’s canon self folded into a wincest-possible Dean leaves a lot of room for… shame, basically, and the shame is where I think there’s a lot of interesting work to do.

As I mentioned recently, Sam and Dean are really very, very, very normal. Dean’s got a pretty meat-and-potatoes way of looking at the world, 90% of the time, and so I don’t necessarily want that to be totally removed even if he does take little brother d on the reg. (If the character’s wholly altered just because of buttsex, then why would I want to write or read about him? I still want him to feel like Dean, as much as possible.) So, what does a guy like Dean like? We get a lot of random info, and a lot of stuff he fantasizes about (hentai!! what a dingus), but when we actually see him have sex it is… boring, normal people sex. So the things he would think are kinky–they’re not necessarily that far out there. Getting tied up and panties, and maybe a little light domination, that’s like !! gosh!! alarm bells!! so kinky!! Those I think he wouldn’t have much trouble sharing with Sam, although it’s easy to extrapolate how it could be a major issue (and indeed I wrote like 60k on the subject).

The things I think would be really, really hard for that Dean to share? Again, it depends, but the things that come to mind first are the things that are… mentally and emotionally revealing. Like, what if he really wished Sam would dom the fuck out of him, but the reason isn’t because toppy Sam is sexy but because he has this inchoate wordless desire to fall so deep into subspace that he can’t think about how shitty he is? What if he craved praise? You can’t say that to your little brother–please tell me I’m worth something. What if he wanted something sharp and terrible that’d make Sam hurt to give it–what if he wanted the softest, gentlest domesticity, which they’ll never be able to have? It’s that stuff. He’d have no issue grinning at Sam and saying, “hey, let’s pretend you’re the robber and you’re tying me up and ravishing me.” That’s a shrug, that’s just for the lulz. It’s the stuff that means something that’s scary.

But oh man, when they get there.

[keagan-ashleigh]

Hi! I don't know if I'm onto smg but I took some notes about the box's poem in The Winchesters, bc I felt like there was something weird in the way it seems to be a direct message to us...

Thought I'd share it here - those are unorganized thoughts, I will maybe go further into it later.

Follow the path of I toward Heaven

Second spot is four less seven

Find the fourth behind Hells door

Six suns set on the Western floor

I will always lead you there

Ending the darkness that we all fear

What is this referring to? (besides the obvious aka the way to open the box)

• ​Heaven is where Dean is currently, and maybe he wants to lead us there bc this is ultimately where is the thing he wants to show us

• "The path of I" - the way it implies "I" is a god-like entity, or God, even, who lives in Heaven. Spn has established God = the narrator so what if "I" here is the narrator?

• ​Imagine if numbers = spn seasons - s4 & s7 - s4 introduced Castiel (ohoh!) and 7 is the whole Leviathan and Godstiel thing, it's when Dean and Cas get sent in Purgatory. So - s4 less s7, means Castiel's arc story without his descent in madness? s7 is known to be the worst season for most - on a meta level: what would've happened if the situation had been different? What spot would they be in if s7 didn't happen ? What if Chuck didn't write it this way? idk

→ it's less like s7 and more like s4 ? will we get the thrill of this 1st meeting? given that TW tells the story of John & Mary's meeting - mirroring Cas/Dean meeting (cf the entrance scene in trailer), it's kind of a retelling of that story - second spot = second show, second story, we're getting back to that s4 moment, w less of s7 nonsense? or w/o s7 Cas & Dean separation?

s7 also first meeting w Charlie who had the other most brutal BYG of the show

Other interesting things abt s7: Dean forgives Cas, Bobby gets hurt, Dean sent back in time, the "facing your fears" episodes, intro of Kevin Tran, Sam haunted by Lucifer, etc...

But the main thing about s7 to me is how it ends w Purgatory AND the fact Cas wasn't planed to be a series regular this season (tvline 20th may 2011 see fr wiki)

• ​"find the fourth behind Hell's door",wow, if number = season, s4 being sent in Hell, like, the whole Castiel arc being sent to hell bc of the ultimate choices made in last season by writers/Chuck - also s4 starts w Dean in Hell, being raised from Hell by Castiel

• ​​Six suns set on Western floor - idk yet

- Sun: positive, light, warmth

Sunset : Dean driving in sunset

Sun setting: ending of day

- 6, 6 like what? dean + sam + cas + mary + john + jack: family?

6 main chars: Mary, John, Carlos, Latika, Ada, Millie

6 writers ? (which)

obv 6= hexagon (box shape)

Random: 6= Dream Theater, 6th song of second disc Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence: following 6 chars w diff mental illnesses

Aristotle's 6 elements of tragedy : plot (mythos (which means LIE lmao)), character (ethos), diction (lexis) , thought (dianoia), spectacle (scenic effect) (opsis), song (music) (melos)

In religion: seraphs have 6 wings, 6 points of David star, creation in 6 days, is "perfect number"

Also: virgo 6th astroloical western sign, sixth sense, us army radio call sign (rainbow six),

- western, cowboy hats

western: america? Hollywood ? western canada: Vancouver? idk

• ​I will always lead you there : Dean/Jensen saying "this is where I want this story to go, that's the plan"

• ​Ending the darkness that we all fear - in text the darkness we all fear is death, pain, suffering, and facing our sins, basically. The poem on a litteral level says tge suns/positive stuff will end death and suffering that demons represent. This much is obvious. You can't end death though, it's a natural thing that's meant to happen. Unless you're in a story and your death has been wrongly written UH OH we got something there ! 👀

• The darkness could very well be the Empty / bad writing / homophobia on a meta level. We all fear it, "we" the audiance, the queer audiance that's been here since s4. We all feared queerbaiting and Cas' death and Dean's death and that's what happened in spn. Jensen / Dean tells us, if he's speaking here, "fear not my gays, all will be well because this fear of yours is over, we're going to fix it, to cast the darkness (death & separation of those chars) away.

Note about the runes in the picture:

- ingwaz/ing (associated with Yngvi/Freyr - fertility god, commands rain and sun light, brother of Freyja goddess of love (and according to me goddess of shipping lol) ) / means protection

- not an original futhark - means energy, maybe a combination of the o and r of a latin version of the futhark / also looks like a reverse fehu + raidō (f and r) - I am not knowledgeable enough to trace its origins.

I am no expert I'm guessing by the look of the letters but go see the Wikipedia page.

In internet esoteric culture it's protection and energy.

Given that we know Richard is returning maybe foreshadowing Loki/Gabriel.

I don't know if it's right I just laid my thoughts randomly, it is not a completed work. The whole thing just sounds like Jensen/Dean talking directly to us about his plan in narrating this story, it makes a clear parallel between John and Mary and Dean and Cas, and also he takes Chuck's place here, in a way, and is going to set the record straight on it all, fix some wrongs, give a new frame of reference for reading spn, you know what I mean? Goes along with the whole "I'm chosing the music"/" the main villain is a DJ", etc, implying Dean is becoming the driver of the whole narrative. It's all very symbolic and I'm really liking the level of meta here.

[shallowseeker]

Optimism freeform meta

Jack, Harper, and the folly of pursuing of immature, illusory Perfection as the antidote to life's many disappointments.

///

Okay, here it comes. It's our rambling, group Optimism meta from discord that I promised once upon a time I'd post here. Apologies ahead of time if I get your Tumblr names wrong.

Harper's flat is decorated in ooey-gooey symbols of love.

Green for growth (though Harper's growth pattern is certainly arrested), and red for passion. We have the green-Italian amore in the symbolic kitchen of life, and a bright red heart near the entrance.

BEWARE: You're entering Harper's heart. It's black and bloody.

We also see that her home is full to the brim with books and stories. She clings to them, hoping they'll bring her life meaning. The blood-red-pink-purple color theme continues in the form of her array of romance novels.

Harper herself is clothed in red, in a Sayles-coded corduroy, perhaps a mate to the hunter's anorak jacket. Her little scarf is certainly Scooby-Doo-Daphne-esque, but it's also a RED BANDANA calling to mind that she's an OUTLAW, like Dave Matthews in the Tombstone episode.

///

But her bedroom is more serene, stuffed with zen colors, serene green, and a bedful of childish stuff animals. It's dominated by strong protector-types like lions and elephants.

via @honeyedwhiskey: okay so I got intrigued by the fact that she has these particular stuffed animals. the lion, symbolizing stalking her prey, elephants for their memory and their brutality (maybe a nod to wanting community) and the tiger for her actual isolation. the puppy seems to be an older addition, maybe from childhood, and the smallest and most vulnerable one is being protected by the dog which seems to be a bear cub? reference to maybe a mama bear that protected her? the three at the top are what interest me the most though because harper is represented by the heart and the color red so the mouse is her, and the two pigs seem to be her parents, with one being a combination of colors and patchwork looking. so it seems to me that one of her parents was zombie-fied, maybe from a young age.

I like the symbolic nature Whiskey acribed to the stuffed animals above a lot!

I too think her reaction to abandonment and Vance speaks to something really fucked up in her necromancy family, like maybe a necromancy-coming-of-age-trial that went REALLY REALLY badly and wound up with her being totally alone.

Maybe it's like how Sam jokingly told Charlie: "You're not really a hunter till you've come back form the dead." Or like Cas told Jack of his own death, "It's something of a rite of passage around here."

Maybe you're not really a necromancer until you've killed and brought your family back and ofc Harper failing that test would fuck her up forever.

//

I noticed the teddy bear, too! There's a tee-tiny nod to the teddy-bear lovers' symbol above her bed, same as Marvelous Marvin has a red heart on his chest in season 15's Gimme Shelter. (And Dean's I Wuv Hugs from a million years ago.)

[The stuffed bear is] a simultaneous motif...of sexual intimacy and The Lover, it's also representative of The Beloved Child resulting from their contact.

(Jack is Marvin.)

///

Here's love in the corner, illuminated by two lamps. Harper is getting Jack a book, a book about her little beloved hometown, McCook.

Deep down, Harper is lonely, and unlike her disdain for her other suitors, she's a little different with Jack here: she wants to be understood.

She wants him to understand her and her hometown. Just a little. She's prodding at the niggling, unusual, UNFAMILIAR feeling. So, she sits down and invites him to sit, to learn more about her.

By this point, it's possible she's figured out he's a hunter, which opens up the possibility of revealing her true self, for better or for worse. It's an intoxicating thought for Harper.

Jack hesitates, clearly interested but also a little bit "!!!!"

He's framed by the heart on the wall. Indeed Jack, like Dean and Mary, is a "heart" character. He's even clothed in one of Mary's key colors: dusky orangey pink. (Aside// You'll notice Connor also wears this color in Gimme Shelter.)

///

Unlike in Tombstone, where Jack wasn't (via script) all that interested in Athena and Dave's relationship, now Jack's clearly grown. He's even interested in physicality.

Even though his emotional core can be kinda prickly, like Dean and Mary, he's at root a very affectionate character, interested in experience affection/connection with others:

So, he sits. Perseveres through he awkwardness. And lo and behold, Harper is as weird as he is.

They talk about having a positive outlook, even though they've had and terrible pasts, have done terrible things. And hey, look--she's getting the lamp treatment! How lovely.

They sit on the blue couch, as Harper tells him more about her past, subconsciously seeking his acceptance. The blue of the couch mirrors the blue color of her past, of her prom dress. We see her little prom queen crown, and we wonder...Harper is so awkward...

...does she really seem like the Prom Queen type?

I suspect it was fake. That she manufactured her own popularity with bit of magic. To meet the perfectionistic obsession with her romance tales. She is at core a fearful character, fearful of messing up, or being imperfect, of not living up to The Dream (TM).

///

Jack makes a quick getaway. In this shot, he's effectively the trope of the divine masculine, fleeing from love, "amore."

It's interesting that the kitchen, a bit like the bedroom, is earthier in tone, filled with more "valley" colors: of browns, greens. The kitchen is about the imperfect strivings of every day life, divorced from the high-dollar reds of Harper's romance-novel decor.

In the bathroom, Jack is clearly interested in exploring "love."

To Dean, he says, "Just in case (she is in love with me)...tell me everything you know about sex. Go!"

Jack is a curious-and-courageous character, too. He's prone to experimentation, which is also why he so often gets the drug ("I like cocaine!" and The Who) motifs. Like Cas, he's maybe a little scared, but he's going to go-for-it no matter how silly and awkward he might look.

That courage is probably something Harper senses in him. It's attractive to her, like the symbolic stuffed-animal lion-and-tiger protectors she has in her bedroom. She wonders:

"Is he strong enough to love the real me?"

In THIS sense, the thing with Vance isn't completely "a naughty nurse game." Deep down, at her root psychological base, Harper is testing the potential lovers' strength. Very classically mythical, really. And she's disgusted by her suitors because they keep failing and failing.

No one is like Vance. Not even Vance is like Vance. Her idea of Vance was never real, and she was never prom queen. But admitting that to herself is so painful, she constructs this horrible pattern of death and destruction.

///

"Her apartment has a lot of wallpaper/furniture from the 50’s! Or with that general aesthetic!" -Cal (@13-01)

It's so interesting, because this 50s retro theme is something that Jack, Dean, and Cas carry a lot, especially in terms of their "old-school" button-up pajamas and dressing downs. (Cas himself, with his overcoat, could be plopped in the middle of Mad Men tv series and fit into the surroundings, haha. And although we rarely see Sam carry the motif, but he dips into it in Peace of Mind as well.)

At the end of this episode, we'll see Harper seated in her own retro cafe with the same 50s vibe as well, a Charming Acres-sort of feeling. To me this symbolizes a backwards-looking illusion of perfection, that everything used to be simpler and better, and with enough effort, it can be simpler and better again.

Also there are dragonflies in her bathroom, a bit of a parallel to the lonesome fly plot that Sam and Charlie are on (in this same episode).

This too is the backwards-looking motif, of holding onto the illusory idea of Happiness (TM) so tightly that it becomes tragic and destructive.

///

Since even her idea of Vance isn't real, it's become like Amara's illusory idea of love. It can never let her down. "It can never hurt her."

[theyarebothgunshot]

The Winchesters is back from hiatus! Live-blogging in your inbox here lol:

-Carlos and Lata's friendship is quite possibly my favorite thing about this show. Love them so much! (And so, naturally, I'm very worried that they were be brutally killed off)

-ooh we have the aftermath of the kiss: no regrets, but also not ready to jump in (my god, Dean really is his mother's son lmao I hope they decide to make John and Mary essentially married before they ever acknowledge their feelings for each other again)

-Gabriel!! Gabriel!! I've been waiting for him to make an appearance! Okay, we know he likes to mess with perceptions, especially since in this time period, he's still undercover as Loki, so I'm keeping an eye on him on a meta-narrative level too (how is he affecting Dean's perceptions?)

-Aww Carlos wanted to be a musician: dreams deferred, hunting takes over everything and becomes an inescapable obsession

-John meeting Sam and almost immediately dropping this bomb: "the least you can do is treat her more like a daughter and less like a soldier" (pterodactyl screech)

-Well, we know the plan to kill Loki won't work, and I don't think he'll actually follow through with killing Carlos (Gabriel/Loki's pattern is to force people to recognize some truth they're unwilling to admit openly, so what's his game here?)

-Excellent needle-drop with "Saturday Night's Alright" lmao (very Shaun of the Dead fight sequence there)

-Ah, just making Carlos acknowledge how much everyone means to him and reconciling the two incompatible desires he has (to be part of this hunting family and to live a freer life of his own, be an artist)

-Time-traveling Dean gave John the letter!! (And yes, I already know about how Sam was photoshopped out of that shot lmao I'm sure there is a narrative reason for that -- maybe Gabriel related? Lens flashes are associated with angels, Gabriel messes with perceptions, etc. Funnier explanation, it's just Cas being a bitch to Sam because he likes to do that periodically. Actually I'm gonna go with that one!)

Honeymoon Anon

yesss they are back babeyyy!!! loved reading your thoughts, i'm also very excited to see where this all leads to!

[antigonewinchester]

Taking a bit of a break from my Gadreel / Trials meta to look more at the Mark of Cain arc. I’ve not seen much recent meta about the Mark and what’s going on with Dean in the narrative at this point, which also gives me some more analytical space to work in here. Felt like with my Gadreel / Trials thoughts, I was at best starting to just riff off of what others had written, and at worst just repeating what others had already argued better than me, and that’s no fun for anyone.

First, I’ve been trying to sort through the writers’s overall framing around Dean and violence, particularly post-Kripke. At the time when the Mark became a plot point on the show in season 9, the writers seemed to see Dean as a uniquely violent character, drawn to brutality and killing in a way that Sam (and somewhat Cas) were not.

The theme of Dean being violent is a thread that goes far back in the show. For example, there’s the exchange at the end 02x03, “Bloodlust,” which shows a dynamic of Dean drawn to violence and Sam questioning it:

DEAN What if we killed things that didn't deserve killing? You know? I mean, the way Dad raised us…

SAM Dean, after what happened to Mom, Dad did the best he could.

DEAN I know he did. But the man wasn't perfect. And the way he raised us, to hate those things; and man, I hate 'em. I do. When I killed that vampire at the mill I didn't even think about it; hell, I even enjoyed it.

SAM You didn't kill Lenore.

DEAN No, but every instinct told me to. I was gonna kill her. I was gonna kill 'em all.

SAM Yeah, Dean, but you didn't. And that's what matters.

DEAN Yeah. Well, 'cause you're a pain in my ass.

SAM Guess I might have to stick around to be a pain in the ass, then.

However, after this episode and over the rest of the Kripke era, Sam, Dean and their relationships to violence continues to evolve. Dean’s violent side is balanced by his hidden sensitivity and protective streak, while Sam’s innocent side is balanced by his hidden ruthlessness and drive for revenge. Over seasons 1 – 5, Dean gradually begins to question his violence and eventually expresses a desire to leave the hunting life, while Sam gradually becomes more violent, increasingly driven by his (both metaphorical & literal) thirst for retribution.

Post-season 5, however, Dean and his violence becomes a focus of the narrative again, often contrasted with Sam and Cas as less violent foils. Although both Sam and Cas have their violent moments, such as soulless!Sam in season 6 and Cas as Godstiel in season 7, Dean and his violence are especially highlighted within the story. For instance, Dean is presented as a “killer” while Sam and Cas are not, even though they also kill. Soulless!Sam is even framed this way in season 6, through the lens of Dean as a killer:

DEAN I thought [Soulless!Sam] was a monster. But now I think… [...]

DEAN He's just acting like me. [...]

DEAN No. But what I'm good at... is slicing throats. I ain't a father. I'm a killer. And there's no changing that. I know that now.

The Mark of Cain arc often presents Dean’s violence as something tainted or pathological; occasionally in season 10, Sam and Cas will use violence in a similar way to Dean, but only Dean’s violence will be pointed out by the narrative as something bad. During this arc, Dean is directly paralleled to Cain, the world’s literal first murderer, while Sam and Cas get paralleled to Colette, Cain’s loving and non-violent wife, with Sam also being linked to Abel, the world’s first victim. In season 11, Dean is explicitly linked to Amara, the amoral embodiment of destruction, with Sam more indirectly linked to Chuck, the embodiment of creation as God. While Dean is ultimately presented as ‘better’ than both Cain and Amara, overcoming the Mark’s curse unlike Cain and letting go of his resentments and choosing family unlike Amara (and in fact helping Amara to do so herself at the end of season 11), these parallels do frame Dean as a particularly dark figure within the story. And as I understand, the Dean as “killer” idea doesn’t resolve at the end of the Mark of Cain arc, as one might expect thematically, but continues on thru to the end of the show.

This thematic consistency makes it harder for me to sort through why the framing of Dean as violent works in earlier seasons but doesn’t feel the same to me in later ones. While this meta is going to be me thinking aloud, so my thoughts may change or shift as I go along, what I’ve come to so far is this: unlike most of the early Kripke seasons, later seasons decontextualize Dean’s violence from the ways he was coerced into violence in both childhood and adulthood, with the attention instead placed on Dean as being an innately violent person.

I want to talk about this idea first as it relates to Dean’s time in Hell and how I see that connection as an important part of the Mark of Cain arc.