#dc sucks with characterization

[ormymarius]

friendly reminder that it’s always okay to pick and choose your own canon in comics because many comic writers do it themselves anyway and canon is always going to change in the end.

you’ll enjoy more stories that way too.

[cyanide-sippy-cup]

Whoever decided to put the Batfam member who's supposed to come from a dark place in life and understands how slippery the slope really is when it comes to falling into crime in the fucking Kite Man show and have her mindlessly impale a guy should be slapped. Once for making a Kite Man show and once for Steph.

Like she's not above killing people. She's not like Bruce who refuses to take a life ever. She'd blow the Joker's fucking head off if given the chance. But she's supposed to understand the regular dudes. She understands the importance of a life. She knows that guy's probably got family at home, or at least deserves to be given a chance. It took a long time before anybody gave her a chance, she knows how hard it is in that life.

Then again it's a spinoff of the Harley Quinn show so what did I expect.

[kittygawa--jr]

i don't think i could ever ever ever get back into overwatch's characters or lore like i used to thanks to now getting into marvel but thank god i'll at least never be a marvel rivals player

[cyatzura]

i am a real hater about this like the fanonization of characters has been rampant for years but then that part of the fandom was rewarded with the wfa webtoon and it's popular so ofc they would try cash in on other parts of the fandom so we got this abomination

[newgraywolf]

So, I lied, apparently the brain worms are too strong, So here’s part 2! Same as last time, I’m on Mobile, and I’m sure there are many errors/mistakes, please tel me and I will edit it once I can!

Red Hood was having a bad life day. First, he has to deal with Bruce (he was supposed to protect him, save him, save everyone) trying to get him to come visit (as if he doesn't want to, but he can't, not until He's dead not until he (they,she,he,it ) had vengeance).

But then he has to deal with Replacement (his brother, (Their King, the Ruler, will he help them, can their revenge finally come?) And he just can't calm down! He can never be calm while He's still alive!

He can barely even remember what he was saying, and looking back at his helmet footage his voice doesn't even sound human sometimes, and some of his words seem to be, different (why can nobody hear me,him,her,them, why, why, why, someone please listen, someone help us).

But he does remember one moment, in the middle of his rant he, he felt calm, content, almost relaxed for the first time in years (for the first time since he (They,she,he,it) died).

But then he noticed something, barely noticeable. When he looked at Tim's shadow, he noticed it seemed a little different, a little off in a way he just couldn't quite seem to grasp, but then he noticed it reaching out to his shadow and his shadow, seemed to move too? Despite the fact that neither Tim nor himself moved.

And then he looked at his shadow and squinted his eyes, he swore he saw a crown with flames made of shadows and a small ring on its hand as it reached over. And when their shadows seemed to clasp hands, and he swore he saw a flash of Lazarus Green come from Tim's shadow, and it seemed to be a little more solid, the flames on the crown grew a little, and when that happened, he seemed to feel. Content (Their king, protector, Ruler, savior, has promised, he will help us, he will avenge us).

Jason knew one thing was sure, he would need to tell Bruce about this. Maybe he could come over to the Manor, he didn't feel quite so angry anymore.

Short DPXDC Prompts #809

Danny is extremely weak and injured and he really hates overshadowing people. He does the next best thing: takes over the shadow of a person. Unknowingly, Danny just possessed the shadow of Red Robin.

[frownyalfred]

Hi. I'm not a canon purist and enjoy some fanon content very much, but I do think people in the fandom should at least familiarize themselves with the canon content and source material. It's easier to break the "rules" so to speak and experiment with canon when you know what that actually is. I've noticed a lot of fans that are only familiar with fanon criticise content that doesn't line up with what they believe to be canon but isn't. The Red Hood for example. I've seen writers who portray him as the violent criminal he is in much of the canon be completely decimated by Jason fans who only know fanon and the retconned version of Red Hood and completely deny canon even exists and refuse to even glance at the comics. Transformative works are important and playing in the sandbox is for everyone but fandom literally cannot exist without canon. Canon is important and people can do whatever they want with it but they should respect it enough to at least look at it.

Hi anon, I'm going to hold your hand as I say this, and I will say it as gently as I can: This is still a form of canon purism.

We can absolutely agree that readers shouldn't berate or abuse writers for how they choose to portray characters in fic, whether that's a more canon-faithful characterization or a popular fanon version. If readers don't like how a character is portrayed, we should encourage them to hit the back button instead.

I want to draw your attention to some of the words you used in your ask above: "should" "respect" "decimated" etc. Those are some strong words to describe how you think people need to behave, in order to exist in fandom. Of course, there is no fandom without canon source material -- I'm not denying that. But with such a wide and varied canon, the DC fandom has examples of the Red Hood you mention above, AND the "retconned" version you also reference. Both are canon, as in actually, officially, canon. WFA is canon, and that Red Hood looks very different from the Red Hood you describe.

Now, I think your issue is that you enjoy a certain version of canon, and you're frustrated that the fandom doesn't also, as trends ebb and flow, enjoy that canon as much as you do. Again, I want to acknowledge that just because a certain version is popular, it doesn't give folks the right to berate authors for writing a different version. But again, I don't think that's what we're really talking about here. From your ask's tone, I think you're suggesting that people should, in order to participate in fandom, read that older canon, that different version, or as you say, "glance at it" before enjoying or writing the fanon version.

Guess what? They actually, really, really, don't have to. It sounds like you have some issues with judging your fellow fandom members who don't read what you do or reference certain canon. But the magic of this fandom is, you can enter it at any point. We're a big pool, and if someone's entry point is the Lego Batman movie and that's it, that's still valid.

Fandom stems from canon, yes, but I almost never hear people talk about movies, or web comics, or other media when they talk about "required reading." It's always a comic. I really wish people would reflect on that before suggesting it as the one true path to being a fan.

The other thing I don't see asks like these reference ever is the reality that sometimes a fandom outstrips its canon material, and that that's an eventuality in some spaces. Fanon interpretations become popular, and people write about those specific characterizations or scenarios. They ebb and flow, like I mentioned, and some are more canon-faithful than others. Some completely reject canon, and again -- it's still fandom. It doesn't make it better or worse than a more canon-faithful fic. It's just different.

I had a couple asks about this topic a few weeks ago, and I'm assuming you haven't read those or you likely wouldn't have sent me this ask. But in them, I discuss how sometimes we need to suck it up and be unhappy that canon-faithful fics aren't as popular in a fandom at a specific time, and stop punishing fellow fans for writing and enjoying those fics. And we really need to stop shitting on them publicly on Tumblr.

Because often, what you're really saying is that you wish more people would write more canon-faithful fics, and stop writing ones about fanon topics you don't enjoy or think are accurate. And to that, I again say, there is nothing you can or should do to change that behavior from others. If you want to read it, write it, enjoy it, etc, do it yourself. Build the comic-faithful community here, write fics and promote challenges, create a discord channel and discuss your "required reading" there.

We are all writing and reading fanfiction at the end of the day. It is a great equalizer in many ways. My silly Lego Batman fic is just as valid as a canon-faithful rewrite of a certain Batman issue. One is not better than the other, or more deserving of respect. You will never get me to admit otherwise on this blog.

tl;dr: people should absolutely not berate authors who choose to write canon-faithful characterizations. however, there are layers of judgement and disdain many DC comics canon-faithful authors/readers have for their fellow fans that I think we need to examine critically in order to coexist respectfully.

[glitter-stained]

Omfg can we please stop talking shit about how Gretchen Felker Martin is gonna fuck up the comic so much it's not even out it's coming in September I'm not even expecting the fandom to give her the same kind of leeway they give cis white male writers all the time I'm fully expecting it to get scrutinized heavily and everyone is suddenly forgetting how bad the Lobdell era was but can you please at least wait until September? Is that really so much to ask?

Also can I just say, the leap between the preview going "Jason is sexy. So sexy. His brooding hotness. It's going to be a pg 17 comic. Because Jason is sexy" and "GFM is going to massacre Helena with sexist objectifying writing" is so frustrating. I know we've all been burnt by DC editorial before but please let's not go in there assuming this leftist trans woman is going to be just as sexist as known sexual aggressor Scott Lobdell. I don't personally care for jay.hel as a ship, I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the idea either, but Jason isn't gonna "ruin" Helena's character by sleeping with her, be serious (if he even does; again, aside that (very pretty) nick robles cover where they're not even actually kissing, the preview consistently characterized Jason as sexy. Also honestly if I were a dc writer or artist this is the exact sort of smartass rugpull I would do, keeping people on their toes.)

Also I wish people would quit that "she doesn't deserve him" mentality about ships like there's a million other ways to approach it "I don't think they'd be compatible", "i'm tired of seeing her as somebody else's love interest", "i don't think his story needs a new love interest right now" okay sure I see your point. But "X deserves better than Y" always frustrates me so much. By what metric? "You deserve better" in a relationship is about behaviour in the relationship, not the inherent value of the partner (which honestly, that's also kind of a random insulting pot-shot at Jason tbh), and also nothing here hints as a romantic relationship rather than just a sexual one. Also btw going "Helena deserves better than Jason" about them hooking up in the same sentence you say you have no issue with them teaming up is kinda like. According a really weird importance to sexual relationships. I don't know how other people feel, but I'd rather have sex with someone sexy I don't get along with than work with someone sexy I don't get along with. And again, by what metric? "Helena deserves better", as in what, a higher value male? And also what does it say about Artemis Rose and Isabel to go "oh Jason already *has* Artemis, Rose and Isabel (very debatable) coming and going, he doesn't need Helena she deserves better!" like dude if Jason sucks so bad what did Artemis Rose and Isabel do to deserve him.

*sigh*

Rant over because I'm even mad at myself for talking about it because I don't want to until it comes out and I've said this shit again but genuinely. Give Gretchen Felker-Martin a fucking minimum of grace instead of rushing to crucify her for a story you haven't even read yet. Tom King is returning to goddamn Batman and meanwhile y'all are sending GFM mail asking her whether the story she's writing is going to suck. What the hell. Do NOT let this be another Devin Grayson situation I swear to fucking God.

[ladyloveandjustice]

Sorry, I know this isn't the point of your post but the idea that Jason Todd of all people is the most popular character for Batfamily fanfiction blows my mind. He's my absolute top pick for "this character should have stayed dead and nothing they've done with them since bringing them back justified it."

I really disagree with you there! First of all, I don't like that Jason died in the first place--the reasoning for him being unpopular was very. of it's time. I personally do not mind that Jason may have killed a rapist, and I enjoyed him as Robin. Holding a poll to kill a child character and then killing him in SUCH a violent, painful and drawn out way is...in poor taste at best...I'd call it gross and ghoulish, myself.

Yes, he's a fictional character. But this is from the same company that was like 'we hate this kid maybe we should give him AIDS' because that's apparently a punishment or whatever and also said "cripple the bitch" about Babs. They way they treat these characters, and encourage fans to treat them, speaks of deeply held attitudes. Like we can't pretend classism wasn't involved here any more than we can pretend it wasn't misogyny with Babs, the aids thing was 100% "well he's a dirty street kid why wouldn't he get aids!!!"

It fostered a really fucked mentality in fans, and it's just incredibly close to torture porn too. Aaaand it and the Killing Joke pretty much ruined the Joker as a villain he cannot be fun or tbh, interesting anymore, the fact that a kid died being Robin ruins the wish fufillment of Robin and makes Batman look horrible for letting kids fight crime , when it's NOT supposed to be realistic! It's supposed to be fun and cool and a genre convention!

Jason was also relentlessly victim blamed after he died. Like I've been going through some comics where Jason was just mentioned and 75% of the time they find some way to blame it on him, he 'disobeyed orders' he 'wasn't skilled and all he had was anger' (that one's super bizarre because he was never presented as incompetent)... One thing that's happened as a result of his resurrection is the characters don't consistently do that anymore since it's awkward to do it when he's right there and he does not agree it was his fault (rightly!)

Second, they'd done absolutely pretty much every story they could do about his death anyway in the fifteen years. Bruce grieving, every member of the Batfamily hallucinating him, comparing everything reckless thing any Robin or Batgirl or Spoiler does to Jason, cute little ghost appearances, it's all been done. So like...why not bring him back if that leads to a new story? That's the thing with comics ongoing forever and a big reason I think characters tend to come back from the dead a lot. If your story is neverending, you'll naturally come to 'hey what if so and so was alive again".

So I don't really think there needs to be a justification for coming back, it was a poorly written story that shouldn't have happened in the first place, and also why not, there's a lot of interesting directions it could have gone in.

The way it was executed was bad. Lost Days is a surprisingly solid comic rereading it again, but other than that. man, The writing for Jason was a mess. But that doesn't mean he should have stayed dead, just that DC sucks at writing.

But he seems solid in a couple more recent comics I read in the Jason doc, and I think he's a fun character in Wayne Family Adventures (it's for kids and sometimes a little saccharine, yeah, but it means he's at least consistently characterized.) You definitely can write him well or at least as interesting.

Jason being popular with fans (particularly fanficcers, a good portion of whom are women) isn't really a big suprise--he is edgy and angsty and sarcastic boy and has the most tragic and broken relationship with Bruce probably which means daddy issues and family drama galore, which fanfic loves. and also is mad at Bruce the most and anyone who has to read Batman will want to rage at this man too so. I get it.

(There's also the fact that all the times he did "excessive force" as Robin involved violence against women (or children, once). This was definitely not on purpose, it was just because DC considered it to be EDGIEST THING, but it does make it easy to sympathize with his POV over Bruce when you read that).

And also seemingly BECAUSE DC doesn't handle him great-- a lot of the top fanfics (and ones I've read) are alternate takes on what could have happened-- what if catatonic Jason was found before Talia got him, what if she decided to bring him home after the Lazarus pit, what if the first meeting with Tim had gone differently, etc etc. And a lot of them are pretty good! I am all for kid Jason coming back and having good things happen to him and him actually awkwardly reinitegrating with everyone...it's really interesting.

So yeah, I get it re: Jason. I just think the girls are just as interesting, and it's very notable you have to go through pages and pages on Ao3 to get anything focused on one of them when you sort by kudos (I actually didn't find any...it was making me too annoyed so I didn't keep searching. There was one goofy one that Stephanie played a big role in at least)

[bloomeng]

I always hear discussions about Jason and pit madness and whether or not it’s canon and I mean on the surface level it’s not canon in the way most fans use it in their fics. But pit madness is canon; the difference is it supposedly only lasts for a brief stint right after getting out of the pit. So to say Jason didn’t suffer from it is also not technically true. Now I haven’t watched/read every piece of Batman media about the Lazarus Pits and it could I guess be a later retcon, but if it is then it’s at least existed in canon since BTAS.

What I don’t love in this discussion is the policing of people when someone suggests Jason might struggle with it. Like yeah I agree Jason is far more interesting if you don’t write away his actions based on “pit madness” but this is fandom. Since when have people not played with ideas like this? Sure there’s also the annoying thing where people learn about it through the grapevine and think it’s canon but there’s nothing we can do about that. Anyway, antagonizing people is always going to be a worse offense.

Like ok. I don’t like wingfics, (I swear I have a point with this) I think they generally don’t improve the canon story especially in Batman where one of the most interesting plot points is them not having powers. But that doesn’t mean I go up to people creating wingfics and tell them it’s not canon and imply they’re dumb. Headcanons by nature exist to play in a sandbox and I feel like this fandom routinely forgets that. They’re so invested in a canon— that is canonly malleable— that they forget how fan spaces work in the first place. I get it that the DC fandom does have more issues with incorrect characterization and people not being willing to consume the source material than your average fan space. And I agree it can be annoying. But antagonizing people creating stuff isn’t helpful either.

Fun fact I actually read a really good batfam wingfic that took the idea but went in a completely different direction. Point is concepts you don’t like like pit madness can act as a form of constraint which can yield some pretty cool things if you’re open to it. And if you read something and it’s bad you can close the tab.

Anywayyyy pit madness Jason may suck his characterization away but damn if the art doesn’t look great. Red and green contrasting colors. All I’m saying.

[perfectmanisperfect]

god being a tim drake fan is the worst. yeah this is me admitting i am a tim drake fan. my favorite robin whatever BUT IT SUCKS. he’s been robin for so long. his robin series alone is 183 issues. he has so much good stuff. and bad yes i know. but he had so much going for him. and then new 52 happened and ruined everything. i can’t even find enjoyment in anything he’s in nowadays because it’s like his entire character has been changed. who is that man i don’t know post 2011 tim drake. except in rare cases and then dc changes that. there’s a story here or there i love but overall it’s just so boring. and then i go back and read the stuff he was doing in the 90s and 00s comics and what part he played and WHAT HAPPENED. so upsetting. i will forever be reading the same comics i guess.

and i don’t even wanna get into fanon. it’s torture over here. canon or fanon. but fanon you know what you did.

every time i read anything pre new 52 it just makes me sad cause tim barely exists in current runs it feels like. and this is not me trying to say anything bad about any other robin. like i’m pretty happy with damian right now. but i just hate that there’s nothing consistent with tim. which is a huge issue with pretty much every dc character but tim is killing me. and then i have to see crazy takes from people who haven’t even read a comic and it’s like you don’t even understand!! and i can’t let it go. maybe i should drop the comics but something keeps dragging me back. i will avenge you yj98. i mean if i hadn’t liked tim’s characterization in the first place i would have never picked up a comic so i just want to see dc make up their minds about something. they don’t know what the hell they’re doing.

[jayladfanpage]

what jason ships are you partial to? reasonings and silly musings would be fun to hear as well :) My personal fav is jaykyle !

To be entirely honest, there's very few Jason ships I outright dislike, those being Jaymia, Jaytim, Jaydick (no real reasoning behind this one, it just icks me), and Jaykara. Everything else I can at least partially get behind. My FAVORITES, though...

Jayde/Sladejay is a big one. I'm obsessed with Jason dating older men and I do see Jason, at least in his villain era, appreciating the fact that Slade respects his methods and his ideology. Slade himself has a lot of hard-set morals and a deep, obsessive love for his family despite causing them nothing but pain, which sounds like a certain Gotham vigilante I know. Also, we all know Slade likes them younger. (Even though that's really bad characterization, it's still funny, so whatever) and I do see them genuinely making each other "better" in that villain power couple way. They wouldn't make each other good people, but they could make each other happy and content and fix their emotional cravings together.

Another big one is JayKyle as well! They're just so toxic and messy I fucking adore them. The epitome of "If we hate each other enough this might work." Both of them need to get dicked down good in order to shut up and the other is more than willing to do it. Jason being completely isolated when he was a hero vs Kyle being introduced to so many heroes at once it's hard for him to forge genuine connections with most of them in the beginning. Both endlesly getting compared to their better, more loveable predecessor. I'm insane

... Jayroy. And I'm not sorry about it. Obviously if you’ve seen my ao3 you're aware of how much I just adore them but. ARGH THEY MAKE ME INSANE. Part of this is because RHaTO was my first DC comic and I'll always be at least a little emotionally attached to it, for all that it sucks ass. Also, I do thing that Roy "Savior Complex" Harper would obsess over the idea of fixing Jason -- especially since Lian had just died when they formed the Outlaws in my timeline. I also think Jason would help Roy with his rampant abandonment issues ( @royboyfanpage has some great posts about that if you're interested) due to how unwilling he is to let go of people, RHaTO characterization notwithstanding. And I just think Roy Harper is really fucking hot and Jason deserves a kind, stern dilf with long hair

You may notice that none of these answers include women and that's because Jason's kind of a dick to most women he interacts with. I am excited to see where JayRose goes though!

[junkdrawerfan]

And so we continue! Part Two:

Previous || Next

Robin II (1991)

Tim Drake vs. The Joker! I can only assume they created this set of comics to prove that Tim Drake is better than Jason.

AHHH! Finally I get to see some examples of Normal-90s-High-School-Boy (TM) Tim Drake lol! I am so excited to see Tim as this like "TOTALLY NORMAL NERDY RELATABLE BOY" even though that gets stripped away over time. Having read some modern comics, Tim Drake is NOT a normal boy and considering some of the hijinks I've heard about I refuse to believe he was ever a Normal Boy.

As part of his relatability he plays DC's version of D&D. But also he's got a way cooler fit & hair compared to his equally nerdy friends. God your shonen protag vibes are showing, Timmy!

Maybe I am gushing too much but this is such a fun civillian dynamic to have! Why don't I see this in fanfics!! Tim who is being courted by the popular crowd and refusing them. Fuck peer pressure Timmy! I know this is 9th grade. I am sure his high school experience evolves but still... I have ideas now for fics!

He does like coffee!

Hmmm.... don't love that. I heard about this aspect of Tim's character. Gonna keep my eye on this thread.

So I guess people don't realize there are multiple robins huh? Thats fun!

I know stories are happening in between Robin I and Robin II in the Batman & Detective Comics series where Tim is working with Batman. And both Robin I and Robin II are fairly early in Tim's run, but it is interesting that the boy who volunteered, who insisted that Batman take him on is so filled with self doubt. It gives an interesting characterization of Tim. Tim Drake is a boy who doubts himself but can't stomach not trying anyway. Or maybe...Tim Drake is a boy with a gut of steel and a heart full of fear.

Alfred is really holding it down! I love his relationship with Tim. He is Tim's mentor just like Bruce. <3

Ah Tim! You little GENIUS! Bruce is out of town and Tim is afraid the Joker will realize the Batman isn't there to keep things inline. So he makes a hologram of Bruce to scare small time criminals and keep the Myth of Batman going! What a smart cookie! He's truly the Robin with The Plan!

Aw man, the hologram fell apart and Joker realized Tim isn't Jason. What will happen next!!

Politicians such and these old geezers suck a lot. Learning more about the political system and the cops in gotham, Gordon doesn't really strike me as a model cop -- especially considering modern standards. He's very much that 90s cowboy of a cop. Obviously, a victim of the time period. Thats why i maintain the only decent rewrite of Gordon I want is a Gordon who was a former Internal Affaris investigator who witched to officer just so he could become a Commandor who pours most of the budget into Internal Affairs to get rid of corruption in the GDPC and reform the cops!

He and Buffy should meet! I think they'd have a lot to bond over.

Dick where are you! Your little brother needs you! For real though its interesting to me that Joker is around and Batman is out of town and neither Alfred or Tim are like "We should call Dick to help so Robin is facing the Joker alone." Of course i know its to get the Timmy vs Joker show down we want and prove Tim can outsmart the Joker! Like comics are always ready to manufactor that drama. But taking it at face value, how poor is Dick and Bruce's relationship in the beginning of Tim's time as Robin that Tim doesn't think he can rely on Dick despite admiring Dick and Dick helping Alfred convince Bruce to keep Tim as Robin in Batman #442!

Woo! He beats the Joker in the end. It takes a lot out of him but his plan comes together and he wins! So proud of you Boy Wonder!!!

Robin III (1992):

Okay we've skipped some time ahead (note to self go back and figure out when Tim's Dad woke up!) and Timmy is back with the Drake's, shit is going down in gotham with gang wars galore and he's struggling to balance that Superhero-Civilian lifestyle

I get why people write Jack Drake as jealous of how close Tim and Bruce are in fanfics.

The Drakes being neighbors means we get cool shit like this:

Why isn't this in more fanfics!! Thats cocol as hell!

WOOO! King Snake is back in town!!

Also Tim has lied to Bruce in like every comic I've read about him except his intro and Robin II (where he couldn't lie to Bruce because Bruce was out of town lolololol). Tim you king

OOOO! I didn't realize this plot happened! Thats awesome! Again WHERE ARE THE FANFICS!

Fucking Teenages Man! Even when they know the right answer, they don't do it!!

Okay thats enough for this run. I will continue in part 3!! I am excited to get to Robin 4 :D

[mrmanbat]

Ik it’s easy to look at the shitty comics DC is putting out these days and get frustrated. And yeah, it’s easy to point fingers at that cringey fanfic written by a middle schooler who’s never picked up a comic in their life.

But I need you to understand—fan fiction is not the reason the comic industry is struggling.

I get it. It’s frustrating when your favorite characters get woobified beyond recognition. But fanfiction is what keeps fandoms alive. Sure, sometimes bad characterization slips into canon, and yeah, that sucks—but honestly, that’s the worst thing fanfic is doing.

If anything, fanfiction is propping up the comic industry. You know how many people get into comics through the fanfic pipeline? Way more than you’d think.

You’re not doing a public service by hating on fanfiction. You’re just being pretentious.

[artbyblastweave]

🔥 Textually "political" superheroes, ala Green Arrow being a leftist and Flash being a conservative, Bastion being cancelled, etc.

Rapid-firing your specific examples- half the fun of Green Arrow is the tension between his leftism and his absurdly privileged status as a billionaire superhero. I wasn't actually aware Flash is a quote-unquote conservative- I'm assuming this came up in that godawful comic that tried to map out how the League would vote in the 08 election- but honestly this is kind of a "he's a white midwestern cop" moment, I feel like the politics associated with his job are always a little bit of an elephant in the room for the Flash Fandom. Bastion is his own post I've been meaning to make for a while, but the short version is that Bastion is a really, really funny dark comedy beat, if you choose to apply that lens.

Circling back to the Flash specifically, though- I get the sense these days that big-two superheroes are rarely characterized as meaningfully politically conservative, in the quotidian manner in which many, many real life people are. I certainly get why they shy away from that, I'm not saying that I want them to pick a couple leaguers who seem like The Type and have them start flying Gadsden flags, I'm just saying it has a certain impact on the verisimilitude of the setting when nobody on these teams has the generically shitty politics of that coworker you roll your eyes at or the Uncle you dread seeing at Thanksgiving. I think it was Memecucker that had a post a couple years ago about how you probably couldn't get away with anything analogous to that thing they once did where Hal Jordan was expressly racist as a character flaw that he had to overcome- you probably aren't gonna get an A-lister who's transphobic and has to be taught the error of their ways, for example. I'm not entirely certain how true that is- pretty true in my reading experience, but then again, there are a lot of comics, so maybe someone took a swing at that hornets nest and I just missed it and I've been talking out my ass for about 800 words.

(I did hear rumblings that they tried to do like, a coming-out-to-tepidly-accepting-parents metaphor with Franklin being a mutant during the Krakoa thing? I don't recall people talking about that beat in a positve light, which makes sense. "Have you tried not being a mutant" has always been a fraught analogy no matter which group is being referenced.)

Anyway my final takeaway is that indie cape things, by virtue of not having to keep everyone in their casts sympathetic and marketable in perpetuity, generally have way more leeway to depict superhero communities with a much wider spread of (potentially horrific) personal politics. Bastion being an example of that- if he showed up in Marvel or DC, he'd be, like, a bit character who shows up in a two-shot issue to get demolished or shown-up by Actual Superheroes (tm) but in Worm? Nope. There's no decades-long protagonist like Spider-Man or Batman through whose lens we view this setting by default. Bastion's as much a superhero as anyone else we've met, he's exactly as real, weighted exactly as much as the rest of them. And he sucks.

[imsaunteringvaguelydownwards]

On the topic of the tim drake coffee addiction thing bc Im thinking about it again. I’ve seen loads of people make arguments for both sides and tbh both sides have valid points (tho I will say the comic people have considerably more valid points).

Like on one hand, yes it’s fun to play around with their Fanon characterizations, yk the whole Batfam schtick, Bruce Wayne being a good dad (tho that’s a whole other issue), tim and his fucking coffee, blah blah blah. I won’t lie, sure I joke about these characterizations bc it’s fucking fun. It’s alright to enjoy a media in a lighthearted manner bc fuck if life doesn’t suck rn. HOWEVER I think it’s equally important to be able to acknowledge the canon characterizations.

because in all honesty, a lot of the Fanon characterizations butcher their canon versions. Tim CANONICALLY prefers energy drinks (if you want a coffee addict I point you to a miss Barbara Gordon), he CANONICALLY is a chronic napper, and CANONICALLY is more of a skater boy than your typical smart nerdy boy. Yes, dc is a sandbox of canon, you Frankenstein what you want half the time with all the different authors and characterizations, but this doesn’t mean we should completely ignore how they act in canon.

yes, some of them in canon ARE badly written, but some of them are also people just wanting their favorite characters to never fuck it up. Both can be true.

long story short I think comic fans and fanon fans need to find a happy medium. Comic fans can try and get off their high horse and find what they like in these fanon versions, maybe even work to make the fanon versions more canon. Fanon fans need to read some comics and maybe watch a few more shows than just young justice (yj ily but there’s DEFINITELY some inconsistencies there) (kon im sorry for what they did to you) (give this boy his jacket and sunglasses back please god) (I’m not saying fanon fans only watch young justice but it’s certainly a trend I’ve noticed)

anyways yeah this isn’t meant to be serious if you wanna engage and continue this conversation just try to have an open mind and take a step back. A couple of fictional characters we all love are not worth pulling teeth.

[sassylittlecanary]

Just finished Black Canary: Best of the Best #5 and guys, Tom King is actually, officially on my hit list. His writing of Shiva is just offensive at this point (calling Dinah "white trash" and mocking her mother's death? seriously? this woman has HONOR, assassin or not). But also I've decided I kind of hate his characterization of both Dinah Sr. and Dinah Jr. I think any modern DC writer needs to read Canary's Golden Age series before writing her, because this is just atrocious. Making her so unlikable is such a disservice, plus what's this BS about Dinah Jr. not being as good/trained a fighter? Golden Age Canary is a martial artist. Post-Silver Age Canary (Dinah Laurel Lance) is one of the best martial artists in the world to the point where Shiva thought she was worth training. All respect to Dinah Sr., but she's very average compared to her daughter. Everything about the way Tom King portrays the passing of the Black Canary mantle sits so wrong with me. It's probably not King's intention, but it's making Dinah look like a pale imitation of her mother (especially if she didn't really want to be a superhero in the first place). I get that comic continuity is weird, but this just sucks.