#dbda theory

[justa-moth]

fun charles rowland fact!

So I was going back through the show and trying to get some gifs of Charles, and I found out something interesting!

I was going back to get a silly funny clip of that ghost guy's head blowing up in E3, and I realized something that I have no idea how I didn't pick up before.

Charles is left handed!

Which I was like, wow! Cool! I don't know how I didn't pick up on that the first time around because I usually get excited over small character details like that, but whatever, right?

(putting the rest of my revelation under a cut lol)

And then on my continuation of said gif quest, I was getting a clip of Charles pulling his cricket bat out at Esther's in E1.

He pulls out his cricket bat and attacks with it with his right hand.

Then I was like, oh cool! He writes with his left, but attacks with his right, that's sick.

But then I wanted to go back to moments I remembered Charles using his cricket bat/other weapons, just to see, and I found out something even more interesting (at least to me).

During both instances in E1 where they have to fight someone, both the WWI ghost and Esther (the gif earlier), Charles uses his right hand for weapons, while drawing the demon sigil with his left (though he does use his right to set the paint brush down at the very end).

(When he cuts the mask off the ghost in their office he does use his left hand, but I'm not counting that because he was physically incapable of grabbing the knife with his right hand at that moment.)

However, despite the two instances of him using his right hand for combat purposes in E1, he seems to use his left in every other instance I can find.

Here's some examples (mainly bc I wanna show off my collection):

(From left to right: Facing the Cat King in E2, Bludgeoning the Night Nurse in E4, Fighting David in E6, and Fighting Esther's Snake in E8) (I didn't mean for these all to be even numbers, I swear 😭���)

Anyway, when I first was making this post I thought I was gonna find a cute fact out about Charles being ambidextrous fighting wise, but the fact that the only instances I can find of him using his right hand are in E1 is throwing me off.

Did the show originally plan to just have it be "Charles writes with his left and fights with his right" and that be it, but then realize it would be better if he just only ever used his left?

I don't know if that's the case, but I choose to run off with my original "he just uses whichever hand he feels like" theory and running away with it as a headcanon until someone proves me otherwise.

Anyway though, I hope you all found this ramble of a post informative in some kind of way hsdfhkld

[the-gladiolus]

Do we have any ideas as to why Charles goes by Charles instead of Charlie or Chip or some other nickname?

Growing up in the ‘70s/‘80s it was totally normal to go by a nickname, especially for a kid - to this day, hardly anybody named Charles actually goes by it. And especially since Charles was sorta punk and alt, I would guess he’d want a nickname to distinguish himself from what his parents named him, to establish some individuality.

My theory is that he did go by Charlie or something when he was alive, but when he met Edwin, Edwin called him Charles by habit. During the early 1900s nickname use was less common, especially among the posh high-brow society Edwin grew up in. To my understanding, it was seen as “low-class” or undignified to go by a name other than your formal name, and demeaning to call someone a nickname as such. In the scene where they meet in the attic we don’t actually see Charles introduce himself, so we don’t know what name he gave. My guess is it was Charlie or something, and Edwin probably called him Charles as a sign of respect, and Charles just liked it, or thought it was cute that his new friend gave him this name, so he decided “new astral plane, new me” and started going by Charles in the afterlife.

[fandom-related-me]

I find it very interesting that one of the main causes of the strain in Charles and Edwin’s relationship is that both of them are hiding things that they think that the other could possibly change their perception of them for.

I mean, I believe Charles is hiding the abuse from Edwin not only to hide the abuse, but because he is so scared that he’s just like his father and probably even more scared if Edwin found out and agreed with him (which would never happen but you know, teenagers). And it only starts being a problem when Crystal knows about it and the Devlin case, when there’s already a strain in the relationship because Edwin is hiding what happened with the cat king, and it must be so rough on Edwin when Crystal tells him about it because how is it that this alive girl shows up for two seconds and knows more about Charles than I do when I’ve known him for decades? And it’s probably because Crystal doesn’t have years of forming and image of Charles, it’s easier to be more open with someone who doesn’t already have an image of who you are, and Edwin’s friendship means so much to Charles that he couldn’t risk him knowing and changing his perception and worst of all thinking that he’s anything like his father. (Also one of the reasons why Crystal arguments about his anger issues hit so hard, he becomes so quiet immediately after that)

And Edwin is scared of being open with the thing about the Cat-King not only because he hasn’t figured out the meaning of it himself but because he’s scared of Charles changing the way he thinks about him if he were to find out that he likes men, that all their relationship built for years were the fall down because of it, he probably knows that Charles would say that it’s alright but I’m sure it would kill him again if Charles were to change the way he is with him and that’s why I think it’s so so brave of Edwin to want to tell him about his feelings the moment he accepts them himself.

And it’s only after both of them start being more open with each other that their relationship improves

[ticktockheartstop]

I just find it sooo interesting how Charles chooses to kiss Crystal after the most emotional day in Port Townsend so far. Let’s review:

1. Charles is clearly jealous of Monty and Edwin at the beginning of the episode: “You? Him? Spending a lot of time?” (Whether this is platonic or romantic jealousy, I’ll leave that up to you… though I definitely have thoughts.)

2. Edwin is really trying, for maybe the first time ever, to comfort Charles and get him to open up (because the Devlin case in the previous episode made him realize that Charles has major walls up). Edwin paying, even slightly, is definitely a new, potentially kinda scary thing for Charles.

3. Crystal is really concerned about Charles and not afraid to hide it, and it’s clearly irritating him. So much so that he nearly snaps at her — which he never does to her — and he stops himself, only to say, “As long as I’ve got my best mate and a case to solve, I’m good.” *pause* “I appreciate you. But leave it, yeah?” I just think it’s really significant that Charles didn’t say “as long as I’ve got you guys” or “my mates” or “you and my best mate.” Crystal was a hit of an afterthought, I think.

4. Charles tells Edwin off for not telling him about the Cat King, so much so that Edwin feels the need to say: “I don’t understand why you’re so angry.” Charles is clearly not in the best mood, not thrilled about the case they’re facing, and not thrilled about his “best mate” hiding things from him.

5. Charles nearly watches Crystal jump to her death, and it wasn’t even him who saved her. It was Niko. He looks the most devastated of all of them, and then gives her that big speech of how important it is for her to know that jumping isn’t worth it, because it’s not actually her mom, no matter what it feels like. And she basically tells him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, because she knows her mom wants to see her.

6. Charles is so jealous, watching Monty flirt with Edwin as he’s stuck digging through a dumpster.

7. Let’s just be clear on one thing: Crystal was the first to “attack” the Night Nurse, even if she tried to do it psychically instead of physically, and no one bats an eye. But then, when Charles gets violent with her after she threatens to take Edwin back to hell and makes him relive all his trauma, all while basically teasing him, everyone FLIPS OUT about him attacking her. It’s honestly kind of unfair, and I’d lose it too if my friends looked at me like that.

8. Charles really loses it for the first time (maybe ever in front of Edwin). He feels like he can’t help Crystal with her problems, and he can’t get Edwin to be honest about what’s going on in his head, so he definitely can’t help him, and it’s heartbreaking. But the real kicker is that the only one who steps up to try to comfort him in that moment is Edwin, because the others are still stunned by his outburst. But Charles flinches away from his touch, because he can’t fathom how anyone could love him or want to be near him in that moment.

8. If that wasn’t enough, as they leave the lighthouse, Crystal is staring at him with major concern. For obvious reasons. But I relate to Charles in the way that that look would drive me CRAZY, and I think it’s so important that later, when offering an understanding ear, Edwin doesn’t let Charles see the scope of his concern for him. That’s why I think Charles responds more politely to his offer to talk to him if he ever needs it.

9. Slightly out of chronological order here, but before going into their respective rooms, Niko says, “I think I’m going to go do something where I don’t have to think now.” And Crystal says, “Yeah, I’m with you.” … and then she goes and makes out with Charles.

10. Idk, it just seems a bit self-destructive of Charles to go make out with a girl right after she says that, and to kiss her for the first time right after she says “I just want something that’s real.” After he spent the whole day being jealous about Edwin spending time with Monty, and keeping a meeting with the Cat King from him, and after Charles lost his mind (understandably). Like, this is not the time to make romantic decisions! This can only end with someone getting hurt.

[thepopsicle]

This watch party is almost 99% focused on domestic payneland rn

[silly-little-songs]

If someone were to make a season 2 fanfic…what would you want to be in it? (Theories, storylines, etc.) Asking for a friend 🤨

[dranathedragon]

Random thought I had, in one of Crystal’s flash backs, we see her planning a party or something, saying her parents won’t notice. Then when she turns, they’re standing behind her giving her disappointed parent face.

If I remember right, when she downs a handful of memory marbles after the disastrous call to her parents, I think there’s still a few left.

What if one of those memory marbles contains a memory of her mind whammy-ing her parents into not giving a crap about what she was doing when they confronted her there. Like…what if her parents aren’t really as neglectful as they seem, but she made them that way so they’d be off her back and she could do whatever she wanted.

I hope that’s not the case, I really like Post-David-Crystal, but mean girl Crystal forced a dude to WALK INTO TRAFFIC, so it’s not completely out of the realm of possibility for someone like that.

It’d also be a cool thing for her to have to deal with/rectify in (🤞🏻) season 2.

[starrylayle]

dead boy detectives season 2 (and possibly season 3..) predictions

ok i know that dbda has not even confirmed a season 2,,,, but a girl can dream. So here's all the things i want to see in this hypothetical season 2:

Finding Niko!! there are a lot of speculations that she didnt actually die and was saved by sprites (due to that lucky charm the walrus man gave her). And i hope this is true!! And if it is, i'd like to see they boys, crystal and possibly jenny getting wind that shes not alive and go on a rescue mission,, meanwhile niko is experiencing supernatural shenagians of her own.

Speaking of Jenny,,, more of her please. Love our goth butcher lesbian father figure and i want to see more of her. Also i want her and the night nurse to fuck. it would be so good. i literally ship them so much and they've barely interacted lmaoo.

I want charles and the cat king to have a one night stand. I dont care how it happens i just want it to happen. And i want charles to find out and get jealous :)))

Justice for monty!! I kinda hc that he tries and to break free from Esther's control and finds his own place. Maybe he calls on the cat king for help. Maybe the cat king is annoyed at first but slowly warms up to this crow boy. maybe he teaches him how to shift from creature to human. and one thing leads to another.....

I want Charles to have a sexuality crisis.

Edwin going on little gay ghost dates. possibly a new secondary love interest for him and jealous charles???

More of Edwin and Charles' times at school!! I wanna see flasbacks, how they were like when they were alive, their friends (or lack ther of..) and family dynamics. And for charles, i want to see how his cultural background and mixed heritage played into his life.

More slowburn of charles and edwin please.

Charles and edwin accidental and drunken kiss scene. Escaalates charles sexuality cris and edwin's gay pining.

I realised I havent mentioned Crystal yet, but i want lots of exploration on her too!! Her dealing with the effects of having her memory back, trying to right her wrongs, interacting with her parents, etc.

Oooh also idk if anyone else wants this, but i like the idea of crystal meeting the boy whose body David possessed and getting to know him better. Maybe they could even become an item!! It would be jarring but pretty interesting.

New characters (+possible secondary love interests??)

Pretty much it for now... but this show is slowly consuming my life so there will probably be a part 2 lol.

[nikalibres]

I have learned way too late that Sedna is a real Inuit goddess (thanks @legbird for your post) so I did a little bit of research and I propose a theory:

At the end of episode 8, Niko and the Sprites are in Adlivun, a frozen underworld ruled by Sedna.

I believe Niko did die but, as confirmed by the writers, her soul is still out there:

Yet, this "astral plane" she's in doesn't look like it's either heaven or hell, at least in their catholic/western depictions.

But maybe hell is not the only land of the dead that there is in this universe. This one more or less fits the description of the Inuit underworld, Adlivun.

When she died, Niko had the bear token gifted to her by Tragic Mick which makes it very probable that it was related to Sedna. Since she had it, it seems like Sedna claimed her as belonging to her underworld after her death.

I'm still not sure why exactly Litty and Kingham are there with her, since they weren't even close to her when she died, but it says above that Adlivun houses not only human souls, but also souls of animals and possibly other creatures, so them being there would not rule out this theory.

In the show we don't get any explanation as to why they're gone, apart from this mention by Crystal.

Now, why is Niko there and will she get out?

(Note how Niko is still visibly cold despite wearing thick clothing, sitting beside a fire and sheltering in an igloo. This is a supernatural cold, hence I don't think she was literally physically teleported to the North Pole or something.)

I think we can all agree Niko doesn't deserve to be punished, so perhaps her souls is just going to be kept safe there by Sedna before she can move on?

Hopefully during her stay there Niko gets to convince her (directly or indirectly) to send her back, in one way or another. (Simply as a ghost? As a zombie? As a polar bear?)

Introducing another underworld along hell would have huge implications for the world building but hey what else would this be.

[arrow-jsy]

Research for my monty fic

What do we think happens in the snake pit? Does snake just nom? Does snake drain like a vampire? How does that then get to esther?

What are you thoughts?

[thepopsicle]

This boy really doesn’t understand the concept of needing to “think on it”

the way that charles seems to be walking on air, schoolgirl-level giddy in the scenes after edwin’s confession instead of awkward or distant. the way he seems soooooo satisfied after all these bouts of jealousy over other guys edwin’s been entangled with because out of all those options he’s the one edwin chose. the way he responds ‘it didn’t’ without needing to think about it for a single second when edwin expresses his fear that he’s made him uncomfortable by confessing. the way he’s flirting with him by the end of the finale, teasing about how charming his smile is to the guy who he knows very well has been charmed by him. charles rowland you are not subtle

[give-me-a-username-plz]

i have had enough DBD sadness. canonically, they cannot see themselves in mirrors, which means charles and edwin are constantly fixing each other’s hair, clothes, wiping dirt of each other’s faces. there is no other reasonable explanation for them both being so well kept.

[the-gladiolus]

It always bothers me when people say Edwin has green or emerald eyes. Really, he has very nice blue-grey eyes: I always figured the Cat King said emerald because it’s telling of his surface level interest in Edwin, showing that for all the time he spends ogling him he never bothers actually seeing him, checking what color his eyes are—the windows to the soul. Or, he realized Edwin’s eyes are grey-ish and couldn’t think of a pretty thing to say about that, so he stretched reality in order to get a flirty line in, ignoring what Edwin is in favor of what he wants him to be.

[fandom-related-me]

Is it ever said who the dude inside Angie is? Is it Solomon? I just thought about it because of the rings and the contract with the devils and such, also the ring he gave the Night Nurse shines ominously right after Edwin’s taken? It might be because of the hubris thing that he said as well anyways just a thought

[ticktockheartstop]

DBDA catch/theory time, are you ready?

First, let me remind you of the fact that Tragic Mick gave Niko the bear charm-thing because she listened to his story and tried to help. And then he tells her, “You never know when the good you do may come back around.”

*Big skip through much of the episode*

So. The Night Nurse’s supervisor showing up at the agency in the final episode kinda makes sense, right? The Night Nurse has clearly had a lot of trouble with Edwin and Charles and could use some back up. And the supervisor acts whole lot like the Night Nurse, telling the boys when they protest that she can’t just take them to the afterlife: “I can do anything I like!”

But then: She turns to their case file. And as she’s telling them some technical jargon about forms, she’s looking over the case file. Near the end of her sentence, she squints at something. But then she turns back to the boys and asks them if they have the form she’s talking about.

AND THEN she puts her glasses on, turns back to the case file, and asks about it. And as Charles is explaining, we switch to the supervisor’s POV as she is scanning over all the cases. Her gaze stops at the top and lingers on the file labeled “Niko Sasaki.” And then the camera switches back to show her face, and we see her begin to point at the Niko’s file. Her facial expression changes so that she’s frowning, almost looking sad, and she reaches a hand up to her neck/shirt collar.

That’s weird, right? But it gets weirder.

The supervisor behind listing all the people the boys have helped, and though she doesn’t say Niko’s name, her eyes linger on that file:

After this, she makes the decision that the boys will stay on Earth to keep doing what they’re doing, much to the surprise and horror of the Night Nurse. This isn’t what she asked for help for!

The supervisor turns to Edwin and Charles and says, “You never know how the souls you help, the marks you make — you never know when the good you do may come back around.”

And then she pauses and just looks at them like this:

Idk about you, but she seems emotional to me. So here’s my question: does she know Niko!?!? Because why would she change her mind when she saw Niko’s case file if she didn’t know her or wasn’t connected to her somehow?? And why would she give the boys the hint of using the exact same wording as Tragic Mick used with Niko if she wasn’t trying to tell them something!? She knows they’re detectives! So she’s giving them a clue to figure something out, is she not??

My brain hurts.

[read-write-thrive]

in my head it boils down to:

- instead of dying, the polar bear token from Mick transports her soul/being (including the sprites since they were a part of her for a time or whatever) to the artic-esque (astral?) plane we see at the end of the show

- the three spend some time just surviving there (again as we see at the end of the show) during which time Niko is aging (since it’s a different plane you could make an argument that she ages faster/slower/not at all but it doesn’t matter much here)

- at some point they are able to leave this plane—maybe it takes years and she’s aged plenty, maybe there’s some outside intervention relatively early on, maybe they do it all on their own, again not important—and so resume trying to get home. if an outsider helped them leave I assume they get sidetracked travelling with them, but even if they do it on their own I imagine it’s not a straightforward trip

- cue montage/years/etc of hopping from one plane to another. since this is the sandman universe there’s a few established planes we can work with, like the Dreaming, but it’s also all fiction so the world’s your oyster. Niko is still aging throughout this!!

- in the angsty version in my head, Niko doesn’t make it back to Earth/the boys and co. as her normal self and dies at a relatively old age (aka the age we see her as the principal)

- when Death comes for her, she puts up a fight bc she’s been trying so long to get back but hasn’t been able to so she argues with Death à la her convincing the Night Nurse to let the boys stay topside

- Death, who works outside of the usual time constraints and has a soft spot for the boys lbr, is like “actually I have the perfect job for you” and grants her the Principal job/role/whatever in charge of the Lost and Found department (which both already exists and hasn’t been founded yet bc of the whole “outside of time” business of Death) — with this, Niko is now an immortal being but appears the age she died as, hence her physically having changed !!

- Niko, now as the Principal, establishes the Lost and Found department as inspired by the boys and by her own experiences being a lost soul

- she also knows to take on the Night Nurse (however that hiring process works I have no idea— did the Night Nurse exist as a human prior to her role, or is this all she’s ever been??) so that everything still goes as it should with Edwin being saved from Hell

- Niko is also now privy to a lot more universal knowledge so is able to make sure to save the DBDA as we see at the end of the series (and as Death initially encouraged her to do when she was “hired”)

- now after the series I think it would be interesting to explore what Niko can/can’t tell the DBDA regarding herself/her journey to get there/etc—we know she sees the case board with her name on it (and smiles briefly!!) but she doesn’t tell them right then and there for some reason. If we think she does make it back to Earth earlier on, maybe she can’t say anything to not mess that up, or maybe she is t allowed to talk about it as per Death’s instructions but is going to start leaving clues for the DBDA to figure out regardless of those instructions, etc etc — I might write a fic of this in particular but it would require a lot of planning so idk

anyways here’s my theory, excited to see other ppl’s theories/reactions/thoughts on it all !!!

I need to know everyone’s theories about the Niko> lost and found department thing bc it’s hurting my brain trying to figure out how she went from being in a blizzard at 16 to leading the lost and found at like 50

Because if she dead/an infinite being why did she age??