#daisy tonner analysis

[astralsyst3m]

Daisy is. Such a complicated character.

She's introduced as a cop who doesn't want anything to do with the Institute, not really. She doesn't trust anyone but Basira. She thinks Jon killed Gertrude and she isn't scared to blame anyone in order to get her way and find who she thinks the killer is.

She went through so much hell and was marked by the fears as a fucking child. She hid how much it hurt her as much as possible, though in a way it controlled her. Her name, Daisy is from the scar that resulted from the attack. She was Sectioned because of the Coffin and later is thrown into it.

Daisy doesn't know how to do much besides Hunt, it has gotten to a point where the Hunt is all she knows how to do. Its all she knows. She's a Hunter through and through. The only person she trusts (precoffin) is Basira. Her partner, the one who has her back. Afterwards? She realizes how Dangerous life is and how she could die or have a fate worse than Death, a fate without Death, trapped by the Buried or another similar Fear.

She begins to trust others, terrified of being alone when she used to thrive in the times she was alone. She stops Hunting, she doesn't want to Become a Hunter, she knows what happened to others and doesn't want to become that. She doesn't want to disappoint Basira. She's seen how Jon's treated. She doesn't want Basira to shun her as she does Jon.

Then she Becomes and loses herself to save Jon, Martin and Basira. She asks Basira to kill her because she trusts her. Because Basira is the One Person she trusts with her Life and with her Death. She trusts herself to not hurt Basira. She knows that if it comes to it she would let Basira close, wouldn't dare kill or Hunt Basira. She could trust Basira to kill her because she could trust herself not to kill Basira.

[abessive-art]

*Archives your Magnus*

[thermodynamic-comedian]

not judging anybody, but i find it genuinely interesting that so many fans categorize the fear avatars as either "good" or "bad" based on wether they feel bad about what they do or not, or if they've deemed their backstory tragic enough. because that's literally something talked about in the show explicitly; wether jon is a better person than other avatars because he beats himself up about what he does. he still hurts people. he still feeds on fear. but he feels bad about it, so is he a more morally correct person than someone like helen, who shamelessly enjoys the fear she eats? is suffering righteous if it doesn't help anyone?

there's also the topic of daisy, melanie, and decisions. daisy chose not to feed, but eventually the hunt still claimed her. melanie chose to quit, but that didn't stop or even interfere with jonah's plan. they made the morally correct decisions, but in the end, it didn't matter. but it mattered to them that they did what they could. i don't think either of them thought they could affect the outcome; they made the decisions they made out of nothing except their own moral integrity.

none of this is a criticism or an opinion, just me rambling on about the magnus archives and how it handles the topic of morality and nature and people making morally correct decisions that don't affect the world at all.

[necromancers-incorporated]

The thing that I don't think people understand is that Jon and Daisy are so obviously parallels of each other. They both experienced traumas that pushed them towards their respective entities as children (Mr. Spider, the story of Daisy's scar), they both go into jobs related to that trauma because of how they have been marked, and they both slowly become corrupted by their respective entities.

The only difference? Daisy didn't have anyone to stop her. Jon had Martin and Tim and Sasha (memory of) and Melanie and Georgie and everyone else there to remind of his humanity. When he started hurting people and succumbing more to the Eye he had people there to stop him and pull him back. Daisy didn't have that.

All Daisy had was Basira, and she herself admits to enabling Daisy's behaviour and turning a blind eye to it. Daisy does stop, or tries to, even though it hurts, her after being in the coffin. She gets reminded of her humanity and is able to, like Jon, resist the pull of the Hunt.

In episode 160 Daisy does exactly what Jon does in episode 200. She gives in to the Hunt to save everyone else, the same way Jon becomes the pupil of the eye so that Martin can kill him (like Basira later kills her) to both keep the people they love safe.

Jon would have turned out exactly like Daisy if it hadn't been for the rest of the people in the institute, and Daisy would have been much more like Jon if she'd had good friends who called her out on her shit.

Yes, Daisy was very much a part of a corrupt institution and committed awful deeds, but she was driven there by the Hunt the same way Jon was pulled to the institute by the Web's manipulation and stayed there because of the Eye. Let's not forget that Jon also hurt innocent people because of the Eye, the same way Daisy hurt innocent people because of the Hunt. Daisy hurt people and so did Jon. The only thing separating them is the fact that Jon had Martin and Daisy had Basira.

[nerdetiquette]

Idk if this is a hot take or anything but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Jon didn’t have any friends (besides Martin) basically the entire series.

Sasha was nice enough but she was strictly professional. Tim was reasonable in the beginning and I like to believe they were friends but honestly he’s pretty wary of Jon s1. Melanie hated Jon the whole way through. Georgie was there for a bit before things got too messy, but the way she treats him s5 is like a time bomb. Basira treated Jon like a stove with a broken gas release, and Daisy, my god Daisy. I could go on and on about their relationship but it was really clear after the trauma she inflicted on Jon he could never truly trust her.

They all feed into the theme of Jon’s inhumanity, but I remember listening and being confused because I always saw ppl treating this like a found family when they never were.

[cult-of-the-eye]

MAG 82 let's gooooo

Ok we're gonna get some answers as to what the fuck is happening here nice nice

DAISY MY BELOVED

God I love scary women

Martin's more clever than people give him credit for I think, he immediately notices something is up with this new case and the way daisy is handling it even if he doesn't know what to do about it

He seems like a huge mess my poor dude, he's desperate to believe its not Jon who killed leitner but he's running out of options and answers and hes going about it the right way, by trying to involve Tim and talk about it to figure out a plan but Tim's too wrapped up in his hatred of the situation to try and get out of it

I love him so much I understand the ACAB Martin memes now

Underneath it all, he's just as desperate as desperate as Tim and as much as it seems like he's trying to deal with it constructively, he's putting his faith in the police by sticking with his Michael and Helen story even though they've literally been like yeah we can do whatever we want here

Omg I forgot basira quit!! It seems like she cared about her

Martin K Blackwood being told "everyone I've talked to says you and him were close" literally giggling and kicking his feet

Were they close? I feel like she was mostly saying that to get a reaction from him but I guess Martin did do his little Jon check ups so there's that

Imagine getting framed for someone's murder and then finding out your coworkers were all like yeah bitch had no friends...

NO WAIT THEY DONT KNOW ABOUT SASHA OH MY GOD

TIMOTHY I LOVE YOU

ELIAS MY BELOVED

When he gets back??? What do you mean by that Elias???

I'm so confused why is he being terrible at framing him?? Like just fucking say he did it, why all the dancing around like yeah he could never kill someone but I hope he could??

WHATS SO FUCKING FUNNY ELIAS

YES DAISY DRAG HIM

(although I feel like Elias gets stronger every time he's called a weird little freak)

ALICE???????

Oh my god I understand now we do know why she's called daisy and it is sad

Oh my god I can feel her rage through the screen

Ha Elias calling it a strange musty place as if he isn't the head of this strange musty place

Oh he's such a bastard

STATEMENT NEVER GIVEN OH THAT FUCKS SEVERELY

Oh my god daisy backstory

Oh my god I can imagine how fucking shitty it must feel to have your story be told by this random weirdo freak who absolutely shouldn't know this and the dissonance of him speaking as you, saying how you felt and saying the words "I like to feel strong. To be in control", while wrenching the control from your very hands

Oh my god I could rave about the "that's why it was my fault" "it wasn't my fault" FOR HOURS. Does Elias want her to think it was her fault? I don't think so, cause the statements tend to be truths, so I guess daisy actually does believe it's her fault underneath it all but has attempted to convince herself over the years it wasn't actually her fault

So then feeling that ripped away at that moment must've been fucking terrifying, like you've been slowly plastering a wall over and over again over years and then someone comes and bulldozes it

OMG YOU CANT KNOW THAT. she's accepted that he's telling the truth and that he does know and that she did feel that excitement, so she might be very quickly adapting to what she thinks might be the best course of action, which is going along with Elias or she refuses to accept that the event was her fault but she has no problem accepting that she felt excited seeing the bodies

I guess accepting it was her fault would be a sign of vulnerability right but accepting the excitement is a show of a kind of secretive power

He can't know how terrible she is cause then the secretive bit is taken away, which then takes away from her power

Her whole thing is that she can do whatever she wants when the police department doesn't care, but Elias knows and is threatening to tell them and therefore remove her power

Oh my god she's so interesting I want to study her under a microscope

Jesus Christ that's fucking horrifying

"you've made your point" god she wants it to stop but she's still keeping up pretences of power, she's flipping between horror and fury in response to Elias

It's so interesting the power dynamics here, it's two people used to being the most powerful in the room, one because of the lack other people's knowledge of what she does and the other because of his knowledge of what other people do and in this scenario, Elias obviously wins out and it's clearly the first time she's encountered this kind of struggle and therefore lost a struggle

Which adds to her violent and terrified reaction

WHY DID SHE KILL HIM??? WHAT

SHES KILLED MORE PEOPLE???

Id let her do whatever she wanted to me

"Does close the case and move on" mean pin it on Jon??

KILL HIM QUICKLY???? WHAT

"there's not telling what he might be capable of"????? BITCH YOU SAID HE DIDNT HAVE THE STOMACH FOR MURDER

WHAT

Why doesnt daisy notice his obvious lying???

Is she so rattled by him giving her statement???

YESSSSS I HOPE SHE KILLS HIM I SUPPORT WOMENS WRONGS

God damn that was such a badass way of saying that

TIM NO

I think part of Tim does believe Jon didn't kill Sasha

Tim just wants Martin to show a little bit of anger at the situation, to show that he's not alone in feeling the injustice, cause I guess to him it seems like Martins just taken it all in his stride, he's just been like yeah this is happening now (maybe it's a different type of trauma response? Having to move on cause what other choice is there) which totally makes sense for Tim

Oh god SASHAAAAAAAA

Hmm wonder what could've been said for Michael to come across as "Working with Jon" as opposed to "stabbed him in the shoulder and has been a generally nuisance all season"

[ceaseless-rambler]

Okay Basira is an important character and her arc certainly adds to the story. But she pisses me off so much

- She totally ignores Daisy's killings until it inconveniences her (Jon dying making it harder to get Elias)

- Despite this, she spends all of s4 treating Jon like he's a horrible person for trying to survive, even though he had even less of a say in his avatarhood than Daisy

- A lot of people seem to like her more than Daisy, but post-Buried Daisy was constantly trying to better herself, even knowing that it couldn't absolve the wrong she'd done and not expecting forgiveness

- Basira, meanwhile, acted like she had the moral high ground in every situation. She wasn't an avatar and seemed to think that made her better, even though none of the main cast of avatars had a whole lot of choice (Jon was manipulated, Melanie had the ghost bullet, Daisy had some choice but the Hunt got her pretty young)

- She straight up thought that it would have been better if Jon died in the Unknowing and didn't even try to deny it. Jon woke up from a six month coma to her thinking he shouldn't have

I really appreciate her character arc, and good character doesn't mean good person, but also she makes me so mad

[the-magpie-archives]

Daisy and Basira's relationship is such a sweet agony, because at its foundation it's so transparent, so honest. They both know what they're doing, however much they pretend to lie or hide it. Such is the situation they're in that there's no choice but to cling to eachother.

Have you ever been in that sort of situation? The type where the closest person to you is deeply morally flawed and you're realising just how in the wrong you are, but their hand is the only one to grasp. You see the claws along their fingertips and you turn your head and hold them close.

On many occasions Basira talks about the wrong Daisy's done, she knows where Daisy's kill spot is, she figured that's where Jon would be. And yet she never tries to convince everyone that she's capable of fixing daisy, because she knows she's not. Daisy knows this just as well, and perhaps it's a foundation of their trust.

To be loved is to be changed but to be changed is to be hated; a relationship where you accept each others flaws is a commodity, and a rare one at that. Whether those flaws are mundane or deeply damaging, these kinds of connections have a tendancy to grow beyond the point of return.

To know that you're in the wrong together is a comfort. It's not good, nor is it right, but it's a place you can sit. A place you can stay. And as your comfort grows so does that leeching wrongness you protect, and in the end it may just eat you up.

To continue the way Daisy and Basira did was what drove them towards their end, but even at that last painful moment there was a tenderness, a rose in the thorns that makes the wounds worthwhile.

[infinatenoise]

Oblivious Hunters - An analysis on Alice "Daisy" Tonner and Basira Hussain and the ways they foil each other

Major spoilers for TMA!

Throughout The Magnus Archives, Daisy and Basira have always been foils to each other, but the way they contrast greatly changes as the show progresses.

When Basira Hussain is first introduced, she is presented as a polite, no nonsense but good hearted policewoman, taking the mantle of the stereotype of "Good cop". She talks sternly, but quite openly and she does agree to help Jon. She is polite and well meaning, and is an exemplary officer. However, when her best friend Alice "Daisy" Tonner was introduced, she is shown as a very aggressive character, reluctant to answer Jon's question (Most likely only compelled to by The Eye), presenting her as a "Bad Cop" archetype.

Daisy's role as the bad cop is presented even more clearly in MAG 82 - Eye Witness, which details Alice's backstory and the source of her nickname: Her friend who became an avatar of The Hunt cut it into her in an attack. The scar looked like a daisy to the doctor who treated her, so Daisy stuck. Alice liked Daisy as it sounded soft and gentle but the scar showed strength. This could be symbolic of how the hunt actually affected her: Daisy is who she should be, gentle and kind, but the Hunt, represented by the scar, twisted her into the violent woman she is. MAG 82 establishes that Daisy has killed many more criminals, but also shows Daisy's violent nature through the way she speaks to Elias, as she repeatedly threatened to hurt and kill him. This initially contrasts with Basira, who's repeated appearances demonstrate her "good cop" role, consistently helping Jon and being polite (Even taking it very well when Jon mentions that Tim thinks they're dating), but upon closer inspection it unveils a flaw in Basira's character. She is letting Alice do all this. It is stated that Alice and Basira are very close, as close to being "best friends" as their job allows. The police don't take notice of Alices actions because she's Sectioned and they don't want to get involved in that, but Basira has no excuse. She says she "had a feeling" that was going on but she never made any action about it. Basira felt alone and Alice was stopping her from being alone, so Basira let her get away with horrible things.

So through their initial introductions, the way Alice and Basira contrast are very clear: Alice is the violent "Bad cop" who actually has no choice, and Basira is the calm "Good cop" who chooses to let Alice do horrible things. But after the S3 finale, things change.

Alice is trapped in the buried. This causes a lot to change in both characters.

Without Alice, Basira does feel alone. There is no one she can relate to anymore, no one who thinks of her primarily. She is left alone with only her thoughts of Alice, the idea of who she thinks Alice is in her mind all the time. She tries to fill Alices role, shown in her aggressive way of speaking to Elias and her hateful attitude towards Jon. However, Alice being stuck in the buried separated her from The Hunt, and left her alone with her own guilt and thoughts. She realises what she has done is awful and she is now scared. Futhering her development, she is separated from Basira. Basira enabled Alice to do these things, she let her get away with her terrible actions and didn't even think twice. But now Basira isn't here to support her violent thoughts, to justify her gruesome actions, and Alice can finally think about what she's done, and she regrets. And when she is rescued, she is still no longer violent. She starts being more social, wanting to hang around when Jon is making a statement. She wants company, mainly due to her isolation in The Buried but also because she is human now. She is Daisy, she is kind and gentle, and most of all, she regrets her actions. Basira still tries to fill the role of Alice, even when she is back, being rude and violent to those around her, specifically Jon. And when they have the intervention with Jon, Basira starts ranting to him about being a monster, a heartless avatar, disregarding Daisy's actions. Daisy even tries to bring this up, that she is guilty like Jon, even more so, but Basira doesn't want to hear it, not even from Alice herself. She has idolised Alice, and refuses to hear anything bad about her, not even an admittance of guilt. And she tries to bring up that Daisy is trying to change, which she is, and Jon tries to say he is too, but Basira doesn't want to hear it.

At this point in the show, the roles have switched. Alice is now the gentle, kind "good cop", and Basira is now the heartless, violent "Bad cop".

Then the S4 finale happens, and Alice is forced into her hunter state once again. She makes Basira promise to kill her, and Basira does. Alice turns her back on the progress she made to save Basira, her best friend (/Non canonically lover), and now Basira is lost. In the apocalypse, she hunts Alice, but does not know if she could kill her. Alice hunts down criminals, like she used to when she was a hunter, and brutally slaughters them like a predator. Basira is still defending Alice, however, even though she knows she isn't human she still tries to justify her actions, which is not what Daisy would have wanted. She never asked Jon for forgiveness when she tried to kill him, and didn't expect it. She could have taken full responsibility for her actions if Basira had let her, but she kept assuring her that it wasn't her fault, that she couldn't help it, so Alice could never fully overcome the Hunts influence. When they finally meet, Alice recognises Basira and asks her to join the hunt. Initially it would be assumed that its because Alice had such strong memories of Basira that even when she is a beast she recognises her, but I believe the real reason is much more sinister. She recognises Basira because The Hunt recognises Basira. The Hunt knows Basira let Alice get away with what she did, allowed her to indulge in The Hunt's influence, defended her when her crimes were brought up. She was no better than Alice. She had technically assissted in the deaths of all those Alice had killed because she didn't want to see a problem with it. Basira was a killer in the eyes of The Hunt, she was an ally to its cause. And Alice's recognition of her made Basira realise this. She realised that this situation wouldn't have happened if she had stopped Alice before The Hunts influence took effect. Basira was face to face with the consequences of her actions taking the face of the one person she trusted and loved. By blinding herself to her actions, she had brought about Alices ruin. So she finally takes the responsibilty of putting Alice out of her misery, ending the one person who she shared a real bond with for the second time.

[lilyminer]

I’m so convinced I’m Your Man by Mitski is a majorly daisira coded song. Like, that song is absolutely about my favourite corrupt sapphic pairing. If you don’t believe me I’ll make my case:

So, starting with surface level cuz I gotta mention it, the whole hound theme in general. Especially the barking at the end is just so Daisy.

But the song itself feels to me like how I think of Daisy’s relationship to Basira. She knows loving her is corrupting Basira in so many ways, she can see the ways this love is sending Basira into a spiral of becoming a worse and worse person.

To me it feels like Daisy is attached to Basira but doesn’t understand why her feelings would be reciprocated. She feels like if Basira fully understood her she wouldn’t be in love with her, she assumes a logic that love doesn’t follow.

There’s just this codependency turned mutual destruction to daisira that this song absolutely nails in my opinion. This inevitability that they’ll ruin each other in the process of being in love.

To me Daisy’s final arc during season 5 is almost like her trusting Basira to kill her not only to stop her from causing further harm and as a final act of true, uncorrupted justice. But as a punishment for all the ways she’s hurt Basira herself, even if Basira doesn’t know that. Trusting her to take revenge for the ways she’s been wronged.

But this is just my interpretation of their dynamic, characterizations and the song itself. To me it’s a perfect fit.

[vmprsm]

𝘛𝘔𝘈: 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘈𝘳𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘚𝘵𝘢𝘧𝘧 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘈𝘯𝘹𝘪𝘦𝘵𝘺 𝘚𝘰𝘯𝘨

Since I apparently have to find the weirdest ways to appreciate a piece of media, here's a fun little music dive I did when I realized a lot of songs in my personal playlists have to do with the feeling of panic. (Starts below Read More, songs are all linked by title.)

The Staff: Attack of Panic, Aly & AJ Here me out here. This song has an urgency, an inevitability, and it also has the self-awareness that everyone else is feeling it too, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's all about clawing towards control in an impossible situation, and it's a theme song for everyone when they're in the Institute. "It's okay, keep breathing Only way it's leaving It's okay, keep breathing Fighting for a feeling, There's a panic in you There's a panic in myself Talking heads inside us And they try to bring me Down" Jonathan Sims: Panic, DEZI Raw is the word that comes to mind for this one, and the lyrics are so spot on. It's got a deep, uncomfortable feeling to it, the recognition that you are changing and its scary and you can't stop it. This is Jon slowly figuring out that he can't go back, he can't get away from the things that want him and want him dead. "I don't wanna panic But I see myself across the room It's fuckin' cinematic But honestly it's torture too I'm switching into autopilot Empty thoughts, radio silent I don't wanna panic, Sometimes I crave going numb I crave it 'til I succumb I'm somebody I don't recognize Seeing through matte black eyes I don't know what I'm about I am within and without Stalling out at a green light My breath is getting too tight, Fight, fly, freeze I'm on my knees Everybody's telling me it won't last But I'll be here forever 'till I bring myself back"

Martin Blackwood: Panic Attack, Liza Anne This song has a ton of self-deprecating energy, and the gentleness of Liza's singing really softens the blow. It's a classic, clean song without a lot of electric influence that exemplifies the quiet panic of suffering alone. "I never learned to pull myself Out of my own damn head Shoulders caved in to protect All of my insides from falling out Of the hole above my neck I'm feeling light in my head Somebody come close I just wanna be alone.. ...Think slowly, try to remember I'm alive My body is here and I am inside"

Sasha James: Panic, Caravan Palace It sucks we got such a little time with her, but this one has the joyous, wild, creepiness that I'd associate with the Stranger. Plus, the lyrics, whoof. Have fun translating the French at the beginning. "I will never (I will never) Free you (Free you) Hand in hand (Hand in hand) Oo oo Together (Together)"

Timothy Stoker: Panic, SM6 Tim was SO SO hard to pick for. He's a complex character, and an asshole (lovingly). I picked this because its a straight panic song, no frills, and Tim was a straight-forward guy who knew he was marked, and its got some punk vibes that really ring to me for him. "I'm spinning out right now No highs only come downs Why do I feel so trapped? Why is my head so loud? I'm really freaking out I'm so fucked up right now I'm in the state of emergency, It feels like What's this? Can't breathe All my anxieties Coming for me I try to scream but I just start to panic"

Melanie King: Panic Room, Au/Ra I'm content on the song choice here, but I m torn between the original and the acoustic. The acoustic is more lonely, while the original has more horror movie feelings. I picked this one because it really reminded me how easy it is to lose yourself, and how she almost did. "My phone has no signal It's making my skin crawl The silence is so loud The lights spark and flicker With monsters much bigger Than I can control now... ...Welcome to the panic room You'll know I wasn't joking When you see them too, see them too"

Basira Hussain: Panic Switch, Silversun Pickups For much of the series, Basira is defined by Daisy, and this is the source of most of her anxiety. This song shows that and also the panicky guilt of knowing your choices are wrong. It's also got a good upbeat yet dark energy that I like for her. "When you see yourself in a crowded room Do your fingers itch, are you pistol-whipped? Will you step in line or release the glitch? Can you fall asleep with a panic switch? ...If I go everywhere you want me to go How will I know you'll still follow?"

Daisy Tonner: Panic Attack, Dream Theater & Panic Cord, Gabrielle Aplin Hey Alice, why does your mom let you have two names AND two songs? Well, in my mind there's two Daisy's. There was the one that was the Hunt, and the one that fought back. The first song is pure terror and speed and heavy instruments and its drawn out to eight minutes like a good hunt. "Rapid heartbeat pounding through my chest Agitated body in distress I feel like I'm in danger Daily life is strangled by my stress, A stifling surge shooting through all my veins Extreme apprehension, suddenly I'm insane Lost all hope for redemption A grave situation desperate at best" The one that fought never looked for forgiveness, but was always worried about her existence around those she had wronged. This one is far softer. "Maybe, I pulled the panic cord And maybe, you were happy, I was bored Maybe I wanted you to change Maybe I'm the one to blame This meant more to you than it did to me I was full of doubts and you believed The more that you keep coming over The more I know it's over"

That was longwinded!! I really like music and super like putting things in little boxes like the advanced monkey I am, so I hope you enjoy. I'm very normal about TMA.

[ghostinacardboardbox]

And this becomes especially clear when you compare him to Daisy, both with how the two of them became avatars and then the different ways they’re treated by others.

Like in Jon’s case he literally didn’t know at all what he was signing up for when he took the archivist job. It was, from the outside, a safe (if slightly eccentric) office job. He didn’t consent to anything that happened to him. The fact that he is responsible for his actions after that point can coexist with the fact that he himself did nothing to crest his curren situation. And yet other characters (especially Basora and Melanie, but also to an extent Georgie) act as if Jon not only is accountable for his actions re: taking live statements, but also the events that led them here. Which is blatantly untrue and acts as if Jon taking accountability is equivalent to Jon taking blame for everything that has happened.

Daisy on the other hand is more complicated and is part of why i started thinking about TMA in a context of uninformed consent and consent under false circumstances. On the surface Daisy chooses everything that happens to her. She likes hurting people and convinces herself that because she does so in the frame of law enforcement, she’s still able to be a good person. She chooses a career that will not hold her accountable and that will protect her from the consequences of her actions. She is not complicit or unknowing about this and is guilty of those actions. But she doesn’t actually know about the Hunt (it could be argued that she’s willfully ignorant, but i genuinely don’t think she processes her status as an avatar until way after the fact). Her consenting to being a power-abusing cop is not the same as consenting to serving one of the entities. She likely still would have behaved the same if she knew, honestly, but the point is that she didn’t and the fact that she would have done the same thing with all the information isn’t relevant. It’s not true consent if you aren’t fully aware. And yet Daisy is treated so differently from Jon. Basira especially is constantly enabling Daisy. She’s insistent that Daisy isn’t as much of a monster as Jon and that she didn’t know better.

So there’s this weird dynamic where Jon, who didn’t consent, is blamed fully while Daisy, who “consented” in that she gave in to her Hunt tendencies but not in that she was fully aware of what she was doing, is given plausible deniability (and this relates to the idea that law enforcement systems will protect their own from accountability constantly; Daisy is untouchable as long as another cop is there to vouch for her, even if she and Basira have quit). Which i think about all the time.

I just think it’s interesting that even the avatars we think of as willing participants usually have this idea of not knowing. For some it could maybe be called a leap of faith. But for some it’s still just more decisions that they’re making because of a lack of information, a lack of other choices, or both.

the problem with the addiction metaphor for avatars in the magnus archives isn't actually with the metaphor itself, it's that it's treated as the Only way to understand monsterhood.

"jon made the choice to go after live statements because they felt good" is true

"jon felt good when he took live statements as a metaphor for addiction" is true

"jon felt good when he took live statements because victimizing people feels empowering" is true

"jon felt good when he took live statements Because Eating Feels Good" Is Also True

it's easy to say that jon made The Choice to continue being a monster, there's plenty of characters in the show who've said as much.

but the choice to continue being a monster is Equally the choice to Survive, to continue living. and trying to have a conversation about the Morality of jon's choice, as if it is Only about how good it feels to be monstrous, as if the addiction to living can be separated from the reality of dying. is a bit ridiculous !

the whole point of jon's situation, of Being an avatar, is that it's not Fair. jon was turned into a monster without his knowledge or consent, and then was told that there was no way out of it but to die.

it's not Fair to blame someone for wanting to live, it's not Fair to hurt someone to continue living. both are true, and that's Exactly what makes it interesting ! Why avatars can be both victims and victimizers in turn.

what makes someone like jon different from someone like jared hopsworth isn't their capacity for violence or to cause pain, it's the Choice To Continue Feeling Compassion For Other People. to make the active Choice to see other human beings As People and care about the harm you cause them.

so much of the narrative of tma is about characters who are stripped of agency, who still make Meaningful Choices Anyways. by Choosing to care, even as that choice hurts you. to continue to care even though it would feel Good not to.

this isn't Separate from the metaphor about addiction, it's in Conversation with it.

[thermodynamic-comedian]

you guys better not start simplifying morality when i say this

ok now with that warning out of the way

do you guys ever think about the parallels between daisy trapped in the buried and barnabas bennett trapped in the lonely. and how their respective pet eye avatars made the two opposite decisions on how to proceed. how jon threw himself into that coffin with little to no hesitation and jonah just kind of. watched.

[the-butterbun]

Hello. I’m glad you like my descriptions for your TMA Tarot.

They are very basic for cards. Mostly just enough to get a message.

But given each Tarot deck is personal to the images they use, I might eventually have time to really go into depth of cards meaning. I have 5 decks myself, and though messages can be the same, the way they are presented are different depending on the cards images.

(Example being my Arcana Deck’s star is very big into hope and courage. As the person who represents it is these things. But my Vampire Deck’s Star is more about the determination and desire of hope than the feeling of it.)

So for your deck I’d be going into more about how the Star and The Dark go hand in hand. Your deck would talk more about the facing of darkness rather than the hope the Star invokes. And would give more messages to the reader that, say reversed, means they are in despair.

So say they got Strength and The Star reversed, the reading would indicate they are in despair and fear, the darkness is about to consume them, and Strength would tell them to face the Dark with calmness and resolve. Invoking in a way two beings, to face the fear of The Dark you must embrace the strength of The Hunt.

I hope this gives you an idea of why I adore Tarot Deck’s that are stylized to certain fandoms. Because though the meaning of the cards are roughly the same, the way they are presented and told to the reader is very different depending on the art and/or fandom they are based in.

Sorry for this info dump, I wish you well with your exams and your project. Dont feel any pressure to continue it, doing 72 cards with 22 of them being heavy stylized as Major Arcane is not easy. (Not to mention the 16 Court Cards.)

((Dude!! The Court Cards could easily be the 14 fears with the Magnus Institute and its Underground being the last two))

Ah, sorry getting carried away with this ‘ask’. Again good luck and hope everything goes well!

I absolutely love your descriptions for the tma tarot cards I drew!

I don't have a lot of practice with more flowery/metaphorical language. Seeing your proposals for the card meanings really sparked up my drive for this project once again. I can go in depth about my reasonings and analysis but poetic prose is a whole other ball park.

The fact that I don't actually have a lot of experience with tarot is also certainly a factor. at the beginning I had trouble matching characters with their cards since all decks are different but that is also the beaty of tarot I learned!

Here's the whole list of the Major Arcana matches so far (keep in mind these might still change, some of theses matches I am more attached to than others)! I paired up all these cards a few months ago so atm am a bit fuzzy on my exact thought process but I made it a point to give each fear AT LEAST one card of the Major Arcana (including the extinction). I have not done the Courts as of yet and probably won't for a while.

0 - the fool - Micheal Shelly

1 - the magician - Anabelle Cain

2 - the high priestess - Melanie King/Helen Richardson (I'm still split on this one)

3 - the empress - Gertrude Robinson

4 - the emperor - Jonah Magnus/Elias Bouchard

5 - the hierophant - Raymond Fielding

6 - the lovers - Agnes Montague and Jack Barnabas

7 - the chariot - Julia Montauk and Trevor Herbert

8 - strength - Daisy Tonner and Badura Hussain

9 - the hermit - Martin Blackwood

10 - wheel of fortune - Georgie Barker and Oliver Banks

11 - Justice - Peter Lukas

12 - the hanged man - Jonathan Sims

13 - death - Gerry Keay

14 - temperance - Jared Hopworth

15 - the devil - Nikola Orsinov

16 - the tower - Micheal Crew

17 - the star - Manuela Dominguez

18 - the moon - Gary Boylen

19 - the sun - Jane Prentis

20 - judgement - Hazekiah Wakely

21 - the world - Simon fairchild

I have my in depth notes on these somewhere in my journal so if anyone's interested I can go in depth on each card, why I chose who I chose as well as alternative candidates :)

PS.: Actually I should probably check out the Courts before I finalize these matches. who knows maybe I'll find better ones and push off some of the Eye servants over there I mean I love them dearly but also this deck is VERY heavily Eye stacked. the 'one card per fear minimum rule' definitely stays regardless

PSS.: (god I can't even even fit them all in the tags, my pookies...)

[ao3feed-jonmartin]

THE LAST TAPES // we'll keep dancing 'till we die

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/M28KqVY by drunkspacearchivist Transcripts from season two of Gerard Keay's music and pop culture podcast, "THE LAST TAPES". Meanwhile, two years earlier, Jonathan Sims has stepped away from the spotlight, and is very much done with music, thank you very much. But when he meets a mysterious man at a party, he is pulled back into the music scene, and maybe even back into love.   Or, a Band AU that is half narrative and half podcast transcript. Title partially from "Die Young" by Kesha. Words: 1597, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: The Magnus Archives (Podcast) Rating: Mature Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: F/F, Gen, M/M Characters: Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Gerard Keay, Martin Blackwood, Georgie Barker, Melanie King, Basira Hussain, Alice "Daisy" Tonner, Michael Shelley, Helen Richardson (The Magnus Archives), Tim Stoker (The Magnus Archives), Sasha James, Elias Bouchard | Jonah Magnus, Gertrude Robinson Relationships: Martin Blackwood/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Georgie Barker/Melanie King, Basira Hussain/Alice "Daisy" Tonner, Gerard Keay/Michael Shelley, Tim Stoker / Sasha James QPR, implied background Agnes Montague / Gertude Robinson Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Bands, Alternate Universe - Podcast, yes it's an alternate podcast, Dual Narratives, Past Drug Addiction, Past Abuse, Past Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Recreational Drug Use, Explicit Language, Slow Burn, Mutual Pining, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Musicians, Asexual Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Autistic Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Trans Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Nonbinary Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist Needs a Hug, Martin Blackwood Needs a Hug, Everyone Needs A Hug, Songwriting, Songwriting as a love language, Non-Sexual Intimacy, Past Relationship(s), Past Elias Bouchard | Jonah Magnus/Jonathan "Jon" Sims | The Archivist, Anxiety Attacks, Hurt/Comfort, Critical Analysis of Fame and Noteriety, Does fame count as identity porn?, if you are constantly broadcasting a false version of yourself read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/M28KqVY

[sweetcactojuice]

https://youtu.be/kPzY_kQJboA

Here's the link to the video for those asking! It's a really good general analysis, starting from the smallest level of individual character analysis and working up to the worldbuilding structure :D

Watching a TMA theme analysis video in which the person pointed out that both Daisy and Basira's and Jon and Martin's relationships both ended in the same way, with the less corrupted one killing the other as they were being lost to their dread power. Fuck. I never drew that comparison and it floored me. I had to pause the video and say fuck out loud. Fuck me bro.