#cyclopse saga

[k0t3x-n3t]

Okay, but can we talk abt the fact that in My Goodbye, Athena tells Odysseus "I'm not looking for a friend", but on SEVERAL occasions in the Wisdom Saga she refers to him, not only to other people but to Odysseus himself, as "my friend" ??

No ?? Just me crying over this ?? Okay

[fawnnbinary]

Snajis with blonde facial hair from last night,,,, so pretty

[sci-twi]

I think the most tragic part of Eurylochus’ part in Epic is that his one act of true selfishness (or two acts) are what condemns him not only in the eyes of Odysseus but also most of the audience. Warning: spoilers for all sagas of Epic: The Musical below the cut, up through Thunder Saga.

He’s introduced in the musical in Full Speed Ahead by mentioning wanting to find food to feed the rest of the men of the crew. In the same song, he grows defensive immediately after suspecting a lurking threat, suggesting that they take an offensive approach. He just wants to find what they can (to eat) on the island and keep going so they can all return to their families.

In Polyphemus, his only line in the entire song is him giving credit to Odysseus and Polites for finding the cave and takes note that there are enough sheep to feed everyone.

I have no doubt that he’s fighting along with everyone else in Survive.

But he shows his concern for the others in Remember Them. He is the one who snaps Odysseus out of the brief dissociation he experiences following the slaughter of a handful of his men. He also asks Odysseus what they should do with their “fallen friends.” Of course, we know that if people weren’t buried correctly, they were doomed to an eternity of unrest.

He’s worried about the souls of those men that they lost and is (most likely) not happy about having leave them behind and neglecting such an important ritual.

When Polyphemus awakens after being stabbed in the eye and it becomes apparent that there are more cyclopses in the cave, Eurylochus gets even more concerned and antsy, even pleading with Odysseus for them to just run before things get worse and they lose even more men.

In Storm, Eurylochus’ lines are all about expressing concern for their fleet (although a little pessimistic) and their well-being.

Luck Runs Out is personally one of my favorites and one of the most obvious signs that almost everything Eurylochus does is for the sake of their crew. The entire song is about him looking out for everyone else including Odysseus. “You could be caught off guard and lose your life. Or piss off this guard and infuse us with strife.”

It’s also important to note that the chorus has Eurylochus and the crew singing in unison. Eurylochus expresses his doubts but not because he wants power or to just get under Odysseus’ skin, but because he genuinely cares about everyone on board and just wants to make sure they’re making the right decisions.

And honestly, as a second-in-command, he should get some say or consultation and perhaps this song is him starting to realize that he is not being heard.

“I just don’t want to see another life end. You’re like the brother I could never do without.”

“And suddenly you doubt that I could figure this out?”

This right here is where it becomes apparent to me how dedicated Eurylochus is to Odysseus and the crew. And I can only imagine how he feels after pouring his heart out to only be met Odysseus’ indignant response. Eurylochus wasn’t trying to challenge Odysseus’ authority, but his response is defensive regardless.

Eurylochus switches from referring to him as brother back to referring to him as Captain, maybe sensing that sort of division, maybe sensing that he overstepped in some way. But still, he reiterates his concerns once more before Odysseus pulls him aside.

When Odysseus tells him that he needs to always be devout and comply with whatever he says and tells him to do or else they’ll all die, Eurylochus ultimately agrees. The beginning of that reluctance shows.

He doesn’t really have many noticeable lines in Keep Your Friends Close, but I do want to give you some food for thought that my partner and I @cat-gwyn-gunn discussed. Do you think that Eurylochus would have opened the bag of winds if Odysseus entrusted him with it to guard and made it absolutely clear what is inside and what will happen if he does?

How would you feel if you were your captain’s supposed second-in-command who had led the fight with you and stood by your side for 12 years suddenly came back from a god with a mysterious bag and guards it while staying awake for 9 entire days? Does that not show a severe lack of trust in your crew and would that not make you suspicious? Do you think maybe Eurylochus was sort of egged on by the crew who also thought it was treasure to check?

It’s hard to really put yourself into their shoes because we know how things end and we know that the storm is actually trapped in the bag, but they don’t.

Then, Poseidon comes in Ruthlessness. And Eurylochus sees all those men die. They went from 600 men to just 43 men. While of course he feels guilty for his decision to open the bag, he’s also hearing confirmation that Odysseus is the reason that Poseidon is after them. He probably remembers begging his Captain to just run and escape, and instead Odysseus proceeds to dox himself and all of that leads to that moment.

But still… that guilt does do something. Because after opening the wind bag, we don’t really hear any sort of defiance from Eurylochus for a long time.

In Puppeteer, we get an even further look at this growing divide between the two brothers (in-law). Eurylochus wants so desperately to let Odysseus know what he did, his tone is remorseful, he’s practically pleading for Odysseus to acknowledge him and reassure him. He is incredibly shaken after what happened with Poseidon.

Only for Odysseus to completely wave him off and send him on a mission. Perhaps it’s because Odysseus needs some time to process what happened and strategize or maybe he thinks Eurylochus is going to talk about it and he’s not ready to hear any of it. Or maybe even he’s jumping to being defensive, thinking Eurylochus is defying him again.

Eurylochus, who promised Odysseus that he’d be devout and compliant, and whose one failure to do so attributed to the loss of hundreds of their men, agrees to do what Odysseus says with little fight. However, his fears and concerns are left unaddressed and unacknowledged and he has not received any sort of reassurance.

While he is recounting his (and the crew’s) encounter with Circe, it shows that he is cautious in his decision to not join their men inside with her. Which pays off, since he gets to run back and let Odysseus know what happened.

When Odysseus says that he has to save them and Eurylochus says that they don’t, it almost sounds dismissive, like those men deserved what happened and they’re no longer their problem. This is a cold take and there’s no defending his callousness with leaving the men behind- I won’t defend it.

However, I will point out that with the next line he points out that they’ve already lost so much and gained almost nothing and once more he suggests that they run if only to preserve what little crew they have left. And again shows concern for Odysseus (or at the very least concern for him as their Captain who can get them home) saying that he doesn’t need to play Circe’s game and asking him if he will leave if she proves too hard to kill.

Notice that he says Odysseus doesn’t have to play her game instead of outright telling him not to. He’s trying so hard to be compliant because he just saw what happens when he isn’t.

He might also be wanting to avoid being responsible for even more bloodshed and loss even if slightly.

Eurylochus doesn’t really have any more parts to play during the rest of the Circe saga and throughout the entirety of the Underworld saga. He’s essentially not only just doing what Odysseus tells him to do but he’s also holding onto all this awful guilt and shame for what he did. 

Underworld is almost entirely Odysseus’ point-of-view. We really just see into his world for this saga. He tells his men that no matter what they find, keep going, yet he falls victim to the voices he hears and the guilt that arises and eventually peaks. We have no idea really what anyone else is thinking. For all we know, Eurylochus is drowning in his own visions. He has all this time to think and reflect.

In Monster, Odysseus comes to the conclusion that he will become the monster, he will do whatever it takes to get home to Penelope and Telemachus. I don’t think it’s a stretch to believe that Eurylochus also comes to the conclusion that he will do whatever it takes to make sure that the crew is taken care of and preserved. This is the beginning of when that line that truly divides them starts to be drawn. 

Different Beast is when it starts to become clearer to the crew and Eurylochus that a change has occurred. They start the song by singing along with Odysseus, using “we” and “us”. Odysseus is driving them all to be monsters. His actions are being reflected on the crew as a whole as their Captain.

Odysseus tells the siren that his actions almost cost his life, no longer reflecting on the crew’s toll as a whole, and that he must see his wife. This is when the crew starts to sing that “he” is the monster. And they end by calling his name- confirming that they are now aware that the monster is Odysseus. Really the only times someone’s name is called is when they’re an opponent like Polyphemus or Poseidon. So foreshadowing!

Scylla is where things take a turn for the worse- it’s where that line is nearly fully drawn between Odysseus and Eurylochus. But it doesn’t start off that way. Scylla begins to sing that “deep down you hide a reason for shame.” Immediately after, Eurylochus admits to being the one to open the wind bag and he apologizes profusely and pleads to be forgiven. 

Odysseus doesn’t respond but Scylla does in a way. She continues to goad Odysseus into believing that his actions are merited. It’s what he must do to survive to see his wife and son again. He has always known this deep down- he said it in Just A Man - deep down he would trade the world to see his son and wife.

The next time Odysseus speaks, he tells Eurylochus to light up six torches. Now, I imagine that this is a moment of great relief for Eurylochus. Even after the awful betrayal, Odysseus still trusts him. Going back briefly to Circe when she says “maybe showing one act of kindness leads to kinder souls down the road” maybe this (Odysseus showing trust in Eurylochus) was the act of kindness and Eurylochus picks men he trusts and likes to hold the torches as a way to pass on that kindness. 

Then, all hell breaks loose. 

He watches as all of these men are snatched up one by one by Scylla’s six heads. He comes to the realization that Odysseus knew that was going to happen, that he made him actively participate in the murder of six of their men. That he didn’t communicate anything about what he was about to put his crew through. 

Eurylochus knows what he must do. 

In Mutiny, He goes right out and demands Odysseus to tell him that he didn’t not know that would happen which is a far cry from “please don’t tell me you’re about to do what I think you’ll do.” It’s a direct challenge. He spits out the word “Captain” almost mockingly. He continues to prod at Odysseus, telling him to use his wits (when in Luck Runs Out, he said that people die on it). He brings up that every other time they faced someone Odysseus came up with a plan to save his men, but this one time he runs (when before it was Eurylochus who urged him to run with both Circe and Polyphemus). 

He has pretty much lost trust in Odysseus, but still is trying to give him the opportunity to say something, to explain. However, when Odysseus says he can’t Eurylochus says he’s forced his hand. He doesn’t really want to fight Odysseus, let alone kill him. 

Once again, Eurylochus is the voice of the crew. They know now that Odysseus is willing to do absolutely anything to see Penelope again. They attack him. They voice their doubts in him and echo the sentiment that Eurylochus does which is that Odysseus must be stopped. 

When he awakens, and they’re on the island, Eurylochus is the first man he sees and Eurylochus no longer sounds angry. He uses “we” and “us” telling Odysseus that hunger is so heavy in the crew. Voicing their concerns again. Looking out for them again. 

He holds no malice for Odysseus. He’s resigned; he has lost complete hope in returning home. All he wants is to share one last meal with his brother and friend and the crew. 

He switches to just using “I” stating that he is suffering, he is hungry, he is tired. This is one of the first times (if not the first) where he lets it known what his own desires and complaints are. Every other time it’s been on behalf of the crew. He’s being selfish. He knows this, but he’s so overwhelmed and hopeless that he’s willing to make this impulsive decision. 

Odysseus continues to respond to Eurylochus’ pain with only thoughts of himself. He says that he needs to get home, he pleads with just him. But then the crew comes in and echoes Eurylochus’ sentiments. Odysseus addresses the crew this time, switching to “we” can get home. He knows that he’s fighting a losing battle, that the crew is essentially listening to Eurylochus now, that they don’t trust him. 

And with Eurylochus’ action he declares that he’s just a man. He’s selfish. He’s hungry. He’s tired. He’s suffering. He makes mistakes. He can’t always just push through. He’s flawed.

And when Eurylochus hears the panic in Odysseus’ voice (which panic is not something he has shown before: he’s dissociated/been in shock, been angry, and desolate but never panicked) he realizes what he’s done. He immediately reverts back to seeking Odysseus’ guidance as his Captain. He calls for him by his title.

He’s relinquishing control, but it’s too late at this point.

Thunder Bringer closes out their portrayals of betrayal and brother's final stand arc with Zeus rubbing it in Odysseus’ face that his crew’s hunger is his responsibility. That as their King and Captain, he failed them so badly that they resorted to damning themselves to alleviate that hunger. He’s the one who drove them to mutiny. 

Zeus tells him to choose and the crew already knows what he’s going to pick. They realize now that the monster was with them all along, that Odysseus has come full circle to being the true monster. After they sing their piece and Zeus fills Odysseus’ ears with Penelope’s song, there’s a deafening silence as the decision is being made. 

Eurylochus breaks that silence, calling out one more time. He calls for his Captain but in his voice he’s calling out to his friend. He’s scared. He knows they’re going to die. It’s almost like they’re children. He’s making that final reach for reassurance that he already knows he won’t receive. There is nothing but resignation in his voice. 

When Odysseus confirms his choice, saying that he has to see his wife again, all Eurylochus has to say is “but we’ll die.” Again, he’s scared. He was willing to die over the cow, but that was an impulsive decision. It is very different when imminent death is staring you right in the face and especially when it’s at the hand of someone who you thought you knew and cared for. 

I imagine that as the rest of the crew rushes forward to strike Odysseus down, Eurylochus stays behind and just looks him straight in the eye. He knew all along who Odysseus would choose and he has accepted it. 

It comes full circle. Eurylochus came in as the voice of the crew and he died as the voice of the crew.

[el-jarado]

"Everything's Changed Since Polites"

In light of the extensive re-litigation of the events of Storm Saga after the Thunder Saga, I find myself thinking about "Keep Your Friends Close" a lot recently, and how I think Odysseus was set up for failure from the get-go, and not because of his crew being bad.

Polites's absence is felt like a knife in Storm Saga but the whole gang is feeling it. When "Luck Runs Out" comes up, this is the first time Eurylochus has seriously questioned Odysseus's plan in the musical; probably the first time he's seriously questioned him in over a decade. And what passes between them is pretty telling to me.

Where is this coming from, my friend? I just don't wanna see another life end You're like the brother I could never do without And suddenly, you doubt that I could figure this out?

From what I've seen, Epic takes the approach that Odysseus, Polites, and Eurylochus have been together since they were children. Polites is Odysseus's best friend, but he was Eurylochus's friend too, and he's the first of all of them to die in battle since Odysseus started leading them. They're both reeling from that loss, but how it comes out is bad for both of them. Eurylochus, as we see, is someone who locks down when he's shaken; focus on immediate safety for his shipmates even if it prevents a better course of action (run when the other cyclopses show up, the food is not worth having to take on another dozen Polyphemus; get the crew the fuck away from the sexy witch before she turns the rest of them into pigs; avert starvation NOW deal with (more) angry gods LATER). He does not want Odysseus to get hurt dealing with something as dangerous as a god, and tries to express that. Odysseus withdraws into himself and lashes out at anything that tries to reach him when he's shaken; he's already lashed out at Athena when she takes him to task while he's still grief-striken over Polites, and here he doesn't hear his brother saying "please don't be reckless, I can't lose you too", he hears "you weren't good enough to bring everyone home, and we don't believe in you anymore." He's cold and dismissive to Eurylochus's doubts to cover for his own hurt, and that just makes those doubts worse.

It's exactly the wrong mindset to approach Aeolus in, and this is the part I've really been turning over in my head. Aeolus's game does sound too easy; all he's gotta do is not open the bag, while sailing on a ship staffed by 43 men he's been leading for ten years, many of whom he's probably known his entire life. The winions add the obvious catch in that they spread a rumor among the crew that the bag is a treasure Odysseus is keeping to himself before Odysseus can explain himself, but I think in many ways Aeolus's whole song is putting a finger on the scales. Aeolus, in presenting it to Odysseus, implies that some of his brothers are enemies and should be treated as such, and the winions, spreaders of mischievous whispers, keep telling him "never really know who you can trust." (And imply he should kill and sacrifice when it's convenient, the act that ultimately destroys all trust in the crew down the road.) And I think that's a malicious twist in the game just as much as "It's treasure~! Buh-bye!" :D

Odysseus went up to the island feeling sore and defensive after his last talk with Eurylochus, and when he's told to keep his friends close and his enemies closer, it's interesting to me that he doesn't think "I don't have any enemies on that ship, those men are my brothers" or even "who can I trust to help me with this?"

He thinks "I need to do this entire thing myself." It could be hubris, a quality Odysseus certainly doesn't lack for, but I think this is the shadow of Polites not being there again. Odysseus had to leave some of his men behind for the first time in ten years, and he thinks he's lost their faith because of it. He's guided to expect a betrayal and feels like he needs to do something amazing all on his own to show Eurylochus and the others he's still got it, Polyphemus was a fluke.

Part of my understanding of human nature has been that people respond to our expectations and treatment of them. I sincerely believe if Odysseus had taken Eurylochus and/or a few of his most trusted men into his confidence for managing the bag, the temptation to open it would have been greatly diminished or negated. Odysseus doesn't treat any of his friends as if they're worthy of his trust, because Aeolus got in his head and he's trying to prove something to himself and to them by doing this singlehandedly. However, people respond to how you treat them, and Odysseus not realizing the crew are just as shaken by Polites's loss as he is and treating them with suspicion makes worry fester into doubt.

Polites's loss is felt keenly again; he's not there to tell Odysseus he can relax, that kindness is brave and he should trust in his friends to support him instead of treating them like potential enemies (Ody remarks on being unopposed as if he was expecting otherwise, which is not the relationship he's had with the crew up to now), and he's not there to reassure Eurylochus and the crew Odysseus must have a good reason for his cagey, secretive behavior and they shouldn't listen to the winions continuing to suggest a little peek to make sure of things wouldn't hurt. (I take the continued presence of the winions in the song to imply they're harassing the crew with rumor the entire time Odysseus is keeping to himself and trying not to sleep.) I don't think Eurylochus would have wanted to look in the bag if he was brought in on protecting it, that's not his relationship with Odysseus, but when they're nearly to Ithaca, Odysseus hasn't said a word to anyone in days, nobody really knows what's going on but there's all these rumors flying and the Captain's acting strange...

It would not surprise me if Epic's interpretation is similar to the Odyssey where they're almost back when the bag opens, in which case it might be even more tragic as an Orpheus & Eurydice twist; I don't think it was a case where the bag would've been opened the moment Ody turned his back, I think he stayed awake for nine days out of wholly unjustified paranoia/trying to make a point he's still got it by doing everything himself, and Eurylochus and the crew celebrated too early when their destination was in sight. They thought they were home, there's no harm in having a look now, right? Wrong; Aeolus (probably deliberately) didn't specify when it would be safe to open the bag, and certainly didn't feel the need to warn Odysseus the magic winds inside would blow them miles away from where they opened it. Like Orpheus makes it out of the underworld and then ruins his hard work because he looks back just before Eurydice has, I suspect the crew was not trying to open the bag during the days Odysseus was depriving himself of sleep to watch it; it's at the seeming end of the journey that "they wanna get the bag open so they can have closure." Like most bad ideas, it is likely Eurylochus did what he did when it didn't seem like there was any obvious harm in it; Odysseus said don't open the bag until we're home, but Ithaca's in sight, what could it hurt to celebrate a little early?

To make a long story short, I think Ody and the boys were hosed with the wind bag trial from the start without Polites around, and it's not just because the crew fell for a rumor introduced to make the game harder and Eurylochus eventually acted on it; it's also because a god Ody just met told him not to trust his friends, and he believed the god he just met instead of them because he's still mourning his best friend and misread his other best friend's concern for his safety as a sign his leadership was faltering. God games are rarely if ever fair; the house always wins, and it's a lesson Ody learns slowly and painfully.

I'm also not gonna do another long post about my point that people, Odysseus included, keep forgetting making it back to Ithaca with Poseidon still royally pissed at them would've been very very bad, but making it back to Ithaca with Poseidon still royally pissed at them would've been very very bad!

[epic-kotlc-crossover]

Remember them

this is the third chapter of the Cyclops Saga! hope you enjoy!

tags: @myfairkatiecat @sombrathedragon @bookwormgirl123 @thesfromhms @justalunaticfangirl

@ham-cheese-toastie

Everything was happening too quickly. Dex had just—died, he forced himself to think—and now Keefe was calling for him repeatedly.

"Captain! Captain!" Fitz squeezed his eyes shut, trying to collect himself. Wiping off the tears on his face, he stood up straight, the bright light of the sun making him dizzy.

We don't have much time, so we must move quickly, he transmitted out. I mixed lotus into his wine. That should buy us a little time.

"What about our friends?" Keefe asked desperately. Fitz shushed him quickly, they had to be quiet.

"Remember them," he whispered. "We will not let them die in vain."

The silence was suffocating. Every time Fitz looked up, there seemed to be a gaping hole where Dex and everyone else should've been.

Polyphemus needs to pay.

How, though? Fitz glanced around, and spied the unconscious cyclops' weapon. If they could just sharpen it—

"Everyone," Fitz said urgently, "We need to get ahold of his club."

It proved easier said than done. Even though Polyphemus was out cold, he was still enormous compared to the men.

And he'd fallen with one of his arms draped over the club.

Great.

Fitz and three of his men painstakingly lifted up the arm, and Fitz could feel his muscles straining. Internally, he berated himself. He was stronger than this, he knew that.

Losing seven of his friends—losing his best friend—must've been taking a toll.

Of course it was, who was he kidding? The 'turn off your emotions' was all Athena.

Anyway. When they finally got the club out from the cyclops, Fitz ordered some of the other men to shave down the end of the club into a sharp point, "We're going to throw it into his eye, so it needs to be sharp."

Soon enough, the smell of sawdust and the sound of scraping filled the air. It settled Fitz a little, the little ball of jitters in his chest slowing down.

It feeled like no time had passed at all when his men called him over.

"It's as sharp as we can make it," Keefe told him, looking exhausted. Fitz nodded, and gestured to some of his strongest men—excluding Keefe—to come over and help him.

It almost reminded him of home; helping with the ships. The feel grounded him again. He knew he'd need it, to be able to aim straight into his target.

They ran forward, Fitz screaming, "Remember them!"

This was for Dex.

This was for home.

They threw the club, and for a few tense moments it hurled through the air.

It hit right on target, and Polyphemus roared in pain, waking up with a start.

"Attack!" Keefe yelled. Once again they all charged toward the cyclops, painfully mirroring what had happened ten minutes before.

In the midst of battle, what sounded like thunder from the cloudy sky rang out over the land. “Who hurts you?”

Keefe whisper-shouted “There are more of them?”

“Who hurts you?” Fitz realized it must be more of the Cyclopses. How can we get out of this? he thought.

Slowly, seven more of the one-eyed beasts came into view. They looked slightly smaller than Polyphemus, but they were still hundreds of times bigger than the men.

Hide, he transmitted to his crew.  

“Captain, we should run,” Keefe said quietly, trying to tug Fitz away.

“Wait,” he said, staying in place. 

“Who hurts you?” they repeated.

“Captain, please,” Keefe begged.

“Wait!” Fitz hissed.

“It was Nobody,” Polyphemus told his fellow cyclopses.

“If nobody hurts you, then be quiet!” they snapped, turning away.

Don’t go!” Polyphemus said.

Let’s grab the sheep and go, Fitz ordered telepathically. The remaining soldiers emerged from their hiding spots, nodding and grabbing the dead sheep.

Have you forgotten the lessons I’ve taught you? Athena’s sharp tone asked in his mind. He’s still a threat until he’s dead! Finish it.

No. Fitz said. Athena didn’t see that it would be merciful to leave the Cyclops alive and wounded rather than dead.

No? She demanded.

My friend is dead and our foe is blind. What good would killing him do?

Fitz ignored her protest of Don’t! as he turned back to Polyphemus. His crew was safely on the ship, and he was the last one on the beach.

“Hey, Cyclops!” He shouted. “When we met I led with peace, while you fed your inner beast. But my friends will not die in vain! Remember us the next time that you choose not to spare your visitors!

“Remember me! I am your darkest moment. I am neither man nor mythical! I’m the reigning king of Ithica…. I am Fitz Vacker!”

[bowsers-keep]

Hot Epic the Musical take that I'm just putting out there for the hell of it.

I'm not a big fan of Open Arms. While I understand it's purpose I just don't find the tune catchy or very good overall. Definitely the weakest of the Troy saga for me which is a SHAME because the Troy Saga has an amazing opening and Warrior of the Mind. If Open Arms was just a bit better it would make the saga one of the favorite.

However how it is right now, Open Arms just feels weird? idk how to put it but something bout it just feels wrong and mixing it with the fact the tune isn't one that sticks out to me very much (Seriously if it weren't for the fact the main melody keeps coming back in other songs I would not remeber it for the life of me) it just doesn't work for me. I have a similar issue with the entire Cyclopse Saga where none of the songs feel particularly memorable (save for My Goodbye) or really hit right.

Anyways please don't crucify me Epic the Musical fandom this is but my mere opinions. I am open to discussion bout why Open Arms is so good.

[notscreamingcryingdieing]

Epic the Musical: The Cyclops Saga

When you feel bad for Polyphemus when the other cyclopses leave him but he just killed Polites so your still mad at him…

[leynaeithnea]

Alrighty Circe saga let's gooo

14.I'm super convinced Ody was in denial. He knew but in that moment , aftert losing it all right when he was so close to home , he doesn't have it in him to process this , what eury did, I think he's so defeated he's drained and does not want to talk about it.

"A woman ... What?" Is so unserious honestly

Ody here vs in Scylla really really hurts don't make me even think about it ajjsjsjsn

15.I might be physically incapable of disagreeing with you actually. It's a good song but not the best, the good thing about it it's 100% Hermes, my man comes in , all charming and silly, grants ody a crazy power , tells him he'll probably die either way and then goes his merry way. Iconic , 10/10

16.furiosly blushing at the mere thought of acting this out with someone DAMN ( good for you kakdkskksns)

LYING CHARACTERS SUPREMACY!!!! *stars shaking * *explodes *

In Ody's defence when Circe immediately proposed lust I was also like ???? Girl what??? There must be another ten thousand better ways to go about this?? BUT I realize now that Circe is probably used to dealing with scums and filthy man that at the mere mention of sex become cocky and stupid becase they want her and because they believe they are so irresistible obviously she can't resist them. Meanwhile she is getting ready to stab them several times ( queen behavior honestly)

17.I can't express into words how happy I was he refused!! The circumstances were all perfectly placed so that he couldn't say no BUT HE STILL DID!!! RISKED IT ALL BECAUSE HE MIGHT BECOME A MONSTER BUT NEVER A CHEATING HUSBAND!!!! JAKSKSKSKJS

also when circe talks about the Underworld chills kaksksmsnsn her voice is so gooood

All in all a good saga obviously, but I just might like Hermes and Circe more than I like their songs

next up Underworld Saga!!! ( I'm also really scared and I'm pretty sure I can't form coherent thoughts about the songs , only tears and anguised cries )

Edit: i messed up the post and dont remember the first things i wrote but anyway, i might send you a bunch morw things including a reprise one reactor wrote for Full speed ahead....yeah..anyway

18. The Underworld

"All i hear are screams, everytime i dare to close my eyes [etc]" man hes so traumatized, he needs a hug, i love him

Just a man reprise PLS

"Captain" "Captain, why would you let the cyclopse live when ruthlessness is mercy-" ALL I HEAR IS SCREAMS......

question: why do the men join in when he sings "every time i dare to close my eyes" and the rest...mh......

I keep thinking of the infant from that night.... HES SO HAUNTED BY hIS ACTIONS SO SO HAUNTED

"This life is amazing when you greet it with open arms" POLITES MY BOY STILL THINKING THESE THOGUHTS AS HE WAS DYING WHYYYYYYY YYYYYY ...ouchy douchy

ALSO THE way Steven sings the last "greet the world with open Aaaaarmms" its a different pace/note (?) than the other times hes sung it and its so goood

the voiceacting with Odys "Polites- " "Polites...." ....

.....

and theN

AND THEN

"waiting...."

VOICED BY JAYS MOm; PLS??? SERIOUSLY? I still sob to that song occationally, in fact im listening to the song as im typing this and my eyes are teary rn

"i took to long"....hits some fears, esp bc I'm living a few hours away from home rn bc of college and additionally Im constantly stuck between having to leave one home behind for another (college, where my friends are, my moms where my gardens, cats and little sister are and my dads where my baby brother and they are) so im constantly stuck on like.....being missed and missing people and i know that it comes down to trying to make the best of the time we do have and enjoying each moment we get but man IT HITS OUCH

"bye mom.." ouch

AND THEN THE SCREAMS AGAIN ....so good......so ouchy......most painful day

BUT I FORGOT, ELPENOR I love this funfact so much "558 men" but only 557 before poseidon, siejseigje "i drank wine from a palace ontop of circes palace and fell and broke my neck in shame" i love this so much

19. No Longer You

...ngl, i love how most animators depicted Tiresias lowkey hot af with white hair and all, ....HIS VOICE IS SO GOOD

I want to dance to this song siejgsegi (im not good but i had some lessons for my prom and i can at least do the basics in walz x))

the "there is a world where i help you get home" is soooooo well sung

also "thats not a world i know" "what???"(what saga) but also OUCH rip ody

AND THEN THE PROPHECY

"i see a song of past romance" SUFFERING

"i see the sacrifice of men" SYCLLA

"i see portrayals of betrayal and a brothers finial stand" MUTINIY

"I see you on the brink of death" END OF THUNDER BRINGER??? OR LATER SONGS????

"i see a man who gets to make it home alive but its no longer you".....ody being like "bUT WHY?" yeah his anger is justified

"i see your palace covered in red, faces of men who had long believed you dead" IM SOOO EXCITED for that song

"i see your wife with a man who is hunting, a man with a trail of bodies..." "WHO" (owl) (istg i love how many memes this fandom has)

i also love how the choir techincally spoilers the whole act 2 but we simply dont know BECAUSE JORGE WONT TELL US THE REST THAT HAPpenS AFTER THUNDER SAGA grr

20. Monster

Ody having an existential crisis fr fr

"im the only one whos line i havent crosses" aaaaahhhh

"is the cyclops struck with guilt when he kills?, is he up in the middle of the night" THIS IS WHAT ODY IS eXPIRIENCING THATS WHAT HES TELLING US HOW BADLY HES COPING WITH ALL THAT HAPpeneD THERE

"or does he end my men do avenge his friend and hten sleep knowing he has done him right" THIS IS WHAT HE KNOWS ACUTALLY hAPPENS HE COMPAReS HIMSELF TO THESE PEOPLE AND OUCHY

"when the witch turns mens to pigs to protect her nymphs is she going insane?" HE FEELS LIKE HES GOING INSANE SOMEONE GIVE hIM A HUG

"or did she learn to be colder when she got older and now she saves them the pain" THATS WHAT HE KNOWS HE HAS TO BECOME

"when a god comes down and makes a fleet drown is he scared that hes doing something wrong" ODY BABY

"or does he keep us in check so we must repsect him and now noone dares to piss him off" ODY IS SCARED OF POSEIDON NOW HES TERRIFIED

"does a soldier use a wooden horse to kill sleeping trojas cause he is vile" THATS WHAT HE THINKS OF HIMSELF

"or does he throw away his remorse to save more lives with guile" HE HAS been STRUgGLING SO HARD WITH THE GUILD AND REGRET OF WHAT HE DID IN TROY BUT HE KNOWS, when he killed the infant, he already made the choice of his family over one live BUT it haunted him the whole time, it dictated his actions with Polyphemus and all of that which eventually led to 558 men lost

"if i became the monster and threw that guilt away, would that make us stronger would it keep our foes at bay? (oh baby, its going to work for all of one song im afraid)

"if i became the monster to everyone but us" ("us" his family or his crew I WONDER???) "and made sure we got home again, who would care if we're unjust" Villian arc right here and iM allll here for it

AND THEN THE CHOIR JOining in in "if i became the monster" AND THEN ODY SHIFTING TO "Oh ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" EMBRACING IT

"and deep down i know this well, i lost my best friend, i lost my mentor my mom 500 men gone this cant go ooon" the way this ascents and gets more powerful is sooo good

"I MUST GET TO SEE PENELOPE AND TELEMACHUS" his motivation and reason for everything, im so excited for telemachus voice

"AND IF I GOTTA DROP ANOTHER INFANT FROM A WALL IN AN ISNTANT SO WE ALL DONT DIE" WHEN HE KILLS ANOTHER INNOceNT SO HE CAN get homE OMG PLSSS

and then the whole last part is suchhh good music with choir and and everything aaaaah

"ill become the monster (BAM)" so good.

im scared of the thunder saga one though BECAUSE i have SOOO MUCH to say about this one

[rosetherandomreblogger]

I’ve decided I’m gonna rant about EPIC: The Musical cause it has my whole brain at the moment

so I’m currently listening to the Cyclops Saga and the way that they’ve mixed Polyphemus’s voice is so GOOD 

Like... they did so well to make it sound inhuman, but it’s still understandable and it sounds so fucking GOOD 

and the way that Jorge introduces Odysseus as ‘Nobody’? That man is showing off and I am here for it. Not to mention the Lotus in the wine trick! That was so good! And Remember Them is so good just a;lngahtlg;njkh ehtou 

The way the other cyclopses cut off Polyphemus when he says nobody hurt him? DAMN IT SOUNDS SO GOOD! Plus just... how the other cyclopses sound and how Odysseus is keeping his men calm while they talk! AUGH! 

AND ATHENA! Athena I understand why you’re upset BUT ODYSSEUS HAS A POINT THAT MERCY IS A SKILL MORE OF THE WORLD CAN LEARN TO USE 

AND ODYSSUS’S HUBRIS! He only gets cursed by Posideon because he tells Polyphemus his name- if he hadn’t done that, they wouldn’t have known to curse and ANSGJHAT;JRYHB VOITVN It all sounds so GOOD 

[zdbztumble]

“Kingdom Hearts II” revisited, Part VI

On the one hand, I can understand how something like this could slip under the radar, as it’s a small point; on the other hand, that small point can make a big difference, depending on who you are. It matters less to me, as I’ve played the game before, but it still bothers me: why would the Secret Ansem Report you get after the retreat from Hollow Bastion give away the name “Radiant Garden?”

In any event - the second pass at the Disney worlds is considerably shorter than the first. I had forgotten how zippy this stage of the game could get. In a way, I suppose that’s a bit of a missed opportunity to let the Organization show their stuff a little, but this game is plenty long as it is, so I can’t say that I fault them for that. As it is, I think the second pass is slighter than the first on content...but it’s also better in how it spaces that content.

Before we get into each of the worlds, though, I want to touch on the concept of “filler.” Whether it’s worlds in the Kingdom Hearts series, non-manga-inspired episodes of Dragon Ball Z, non-League related episodes of Pokemon, or even individual scenes in a movie, there’s a fairly common attitude that treats any and all filler as automatically bad - that anything not immediately germane to the central plot is a flaw. I’ve never understood this line of thought. The “filler” episodes of Gohan surviving alone during the Saiyan Saga are a highlight of the DBZ anime. All my favorite Pokemon episodes are “filler.” Filler is only a bad thing when it takes up too much time, distracting or undermining the larger story. But when it’s well-placed and well-paced, it can be as good as any plot-centric episode, and can even enhance the greater story through unexpected means.

I said in Part IV that I can understand how this game got the reputation for the Disney worlds being filler based on the back half of the first pass, but thinking more about, that isn’t technically true. I can still certainly see how those worlds would give that impression, because the story falls into a repetitive stall, but technically, things related to the main story do happen - Pete and Maleficent try to rebuild their forces, and get thwarted. That this was done in the way it was, with so little variety, cost the story a sense of progression even as nominally important events, like Disney villains being turned into Heartless, took place. By contrast, the second pass on the Disney worlds has more true filler. But because it’s shorter, and because there’s more variety in how things play out in the respective worlds, the overall effect is much more pleasing to my narrative instincts, even if it falters a little at the end.

As it did in the first pass, the Land of Dragons follows naturally from the set-up immediately preceding it (assuming that you play through the worlds by villain level.) In this case, Sora has finally learned the plan of Organization XIII - let the Heartless run amok, then harvest the hearts released when the Keyblade slays the Heartless. Since lives will be in danger if he does nothing, Sora has no choice but to keep fighting. And, when the player arrives in the Land of Dragons, this is exactly what we see illustrated. I know that some people object to how brief Xigbar’s appearance is, but I don’t see how that’s a problem. The Organization’s plot is established by this point; one can easily assume that Xigbar is in the Land of Dragons to further that plot. By the end of the level, that’s confirmed; he was turning dragons into Heartless. And just as Xaldin was teased in the first pass at the Beast’s Castle without getting into a direct scrap with Sora, Xigbar here is given some build-up ahead of his role later in the game - and, by succeeding in making a Heartless, and leaving his Nobodies behind to fight, he avoids coming off as ineffectual, the way he did during the Organization’s first appearance to Sora in Hollow Bastion.

What’s more, the Land of Dragons is arguably more concerned with bringing Riku back into the plot. At this point in the game, we have just seen him leave the ice cream and photo for Sora, but to actually show him taking a personal hand in trying to keep the worlds safe is a significant step. A case could be made that this should have happened earlier in the game, but Riku’s absence from the first pass is a concept that’s grown on me as I’ve gone on playing. There’s a real impact to his finally turning up in a Disney world at this late stage, and I like that Sora was 1. not made arbitrarily stupid for the sake of “mystery,” and actually recognized Riku right away and 2. did have a moment of doubt and confusion about Riku’s alliances. Plus, there’s a great comedy bit derived from all this too: “He was rather rude.” “Then it WAS Riku!”

From there, we have the Beast’s Castle and Port Royal - two worlds, back-to-back, that feature members of the Organization taking a very direct hand in the events playing out, more than any other Disney worlds. It’s Xaldin and Luxord doing the honors, and they are a perfect example of what I’ve meant when I’ve said in the past that Organization XIII works better as a concept and a collective than as individual members. I’ve never meant that in a pejorative sense; what I mean is that it’s the group, the monolithic unit of the Organization as a whole, that is the antagonist of KH II. Xemnas may be their leader, and Xehanort its instigator, but they are a hive mind when it comes to the goal: collect stolen hearts to get hearts for themselves. The individual members shown in KH II don’t really have their own agencies beyond serving that goal, except for Axel, and they aren’t very fleshed out as individuals. Xaldin is just as one-note and empty of personality as Zexion and Lexaeus were in CoM (though gifted with a much better English VA), and Luxord’s gaming sensibility (and Demyx’s incompetence) are only a slight step above that. But they don’t need to be any more defined than they are, because they’re 1. Nobodies devoid of hearts (at this point in the series anyway) and 2. cogs in the wheel that is Organization XIII. Unlike the Organization members we meet in CoM and R/R, they aren’t commanding huge chunks of screen time to blather repetitively among themselves - they appear when the story needs them to, and no more. They provide gradually greater challenges for Sora in combat, creating a boss battle ladder to climb until Xemnas is reached, and also help build up the scale of threat that Organization XIII really poses to Sora after being absent for so long in the first half of the story. It’s video game logic applied to story, and very effectively so IMO.

For some people, the limited screen time of characters like Xigbar, Luxord, etc., and the lack of backstory for them, is a flaw in this game. It should be obvious by now that I don’t share that complaint. For one thing - we are given backstory for Organization XIII, just not an excessive amount of it. And why should there be any more to than what the vanilla version of the game provides in gameplay and Ansem Reports? How much backstory did we get on Jafar in Aladdin, Ursula in The Little Mermaid, or Maleficent in Sleeping Beauty? The story functions well without excessive backstory for the villains for many reasons - chief among them that it isn’t a story about them. This isn’t the tale of dark protagonist Xehanort, falling into darkness and continuing on as the Nobody Xemnas to try and regain a heart. KH II is a point in the series where the staff still clearly remember who the protagonists are, and KH II is a story of resolution for their stories begun in KH I. It’s the resolution of Riku’s struggle toward redemption, begun at the end of KH I and continued through R/R before reaching its climax here; it’s resolution for Donald and Goofy’s quest to find King Mickey, and Mickey’s quest to set the worlds to right; it’s a resolution for Kairi, left alone with fading memories at the end of KH I but determined to set out and find her friends again; and it’s resolution for Sora, recovering his powers and his whole self after the events of CoM while slowly confronting what became of his Nobody in that year, and finally finding his way home after his long journey. At the risk of sounding pretentious, it’s the Odyssey to KH I’s Iliad, and Organization XIII are the cyclopses, sirens, and witches. I don’t need - or want - detailed backstories on them when the story I’m engaged in concerns the people they’re getting in the way of.

(I also think it’s notable that Xaldin hasn’t really been pushed aggressively as a major character since KH II. His brief appearances in later games don’t even attempt to expand his personality; by contrast, Zexion/Ienzo, Vexen/Even, Marluxia, and Larxene’s revivals are treated as much bigger deals, but in all the time we’ve spent with them past their supposed deaths, and for all the background and lore given to them, there’s been no appreciable expansion on their personalities. They’re all still playing the same one or two notes they had in the first place, with the only difference being that their presence is disproportionate to their role in the story and their ability to justify their screen time with personality.)

With that rant finished: the same problems with the wording of the dialogue as the first pass plague Beast’s Castle still, and Belle and the Beast remain too far down the road to romance given the nature of their ticking clock. There’s also a huge lapse in logic - the idea that Belle wouldn’t have been told, by the servants if not by the Beast, about the rose. But I do like how direct a continuation this world is from the first pass. Xaldin’s efforts to make the Beast a Heartless were fleshed out more than Maleficent’s and Pete’s were at any point, and the growth in the Beast’s character during the second pass is nice. Belle’s passivity compared to her movie counterpart is made up for (somewhat) by her quick jab and rescue of the rose. And I managed to beat Xaldin on my first try, without being reduced to Last Hope even once! (One minor nitpick about this world’s second pass, though: if Jack can keep his Santa suit in gameplay, why can’t the Beast keep his ball outfit?)

Port Royal is a massive improvement from the first pass. It’s amazing what loosening the shackles of the source material can do for this series. As brief as it is, it’s a creative way to use an element from the movie, and the first pass of the game, in the Organization’s plans, and it has a lot of great little character beats. I like Jack referring to Luxord and the others as “Organizers;” I like Sora’s prank on Jack with the Keyblade (levity with Sora done right - take note, future series entries); I like Peter Pan turning up as Summon in this of all worlds (I’d completely forgotten he was a Summon, so that was a nice surprise; it did occur to me after I found him that Summons don’t have a story justification here the way they did in KH I - a minor, and possibly inevitable, retcon); and I like seeing Sora show signs of weariness from his journeys. You could argue that his getting teary-eyed at seeing Mulan and Shang together was an earlier sign of this, but here, it’s made explicit. Though I don’t know why he had to cover his feelings with silliness; in KH I, Sora has no problem expressing doubts, exhaustion, and longing.

Another nice touch in Port Royal’s second pass is the way that it gets started - with Elizabeth declaring that she doesn’t want to sit around waiting anymore, and wants to go out and find Will. Because that couple had prompted thoughts of Kairi in Sora earlier in the game, it’s very natural to make the thematic connection between Elizabeth’s actions and Kairi’s here without anyone explicitly commenting on it. This is the way to tie related but distant story elements together. It isn’t necessary - or desirable - that every connection is called out for what it is, but doing it once or twice strengthens the overall effect when later moments pass unremarked upon. It’s a lesson KH III failed to remember, as the only time a connection between Sora and Kairi and the ill-fated Disney couples is made happens after everything Disney has already passed.

Just having the order of the worlds mixed up slightly gives the second pass some variety, but even more comes in Olympus. This is a world largely concerned with its own internal story, tying up the loose ends from the first pass. But the moment when Sora encounters Nobodies in Hades’ layer, only to be saved by Heartless, is a very nice - and subtle - way to keep the greater story in mind. We never learn what those Nobodies are up to specifically, which Organizer sent them, or what set the Heartless to attack them - but their presence means that Sora (and the player) can’t forget that Organization XIII’s plot is never far, even when it isn’t front-and-center. Olympus also demonstrates how to incorporate Final Fantasy material properly, thanks to Auron’s brief flashes of memory - they’re short, and they’re tied into what’s going on in the story instead of distracting from it.

Agrabah is almost as subtle in the way it handles the Organization - an unseen member orchestrates Jafar’s release, on the hope of making him a Heartless. It’s a slight role for them, but a different sort of slight role than they had in Olympus. This is where the variety counts for something compared to the first pass; if not a whole lot is progressing in the plot, at least things play out in a different way in each world. My problems with Agrabah’s second pass are all to do with the world on its own terms; I find the controls for the carpet riding a little wonky, and the world has the opposite problem to many later ones in that it gives the Disney hero nothing to do with defeating the villain while Sora does all the work. The resolution with Iago is nice, though, and I’m sorry this series never closed things out on Agrabah with a King of Thieves adaptation.

It’s only when we arrive at Halloween Town that I think a Disney world (on the main World Map, with combat) can truly be said to be all filler. No one from Organization XIII is present, no schemes take place behind the scenes; the only story here concerns the local Disney characters. And with the beat of him being excited to see Santa played out, Sora ends up without anything to do - he’s along for the ride with Jack. However, even with that, I would say that the second pass on Halloween Town is how to do filler right in a video game like this, because this side excursion has plenty of thematic significance. Dr. Finklestein’s puppet doing bad things out of a desire for a heart is the whole of Organization XIII writ small, and gives a preview of the pathos to come with them. And of course, Sora is once again reminded of Kairi in an adorable closer for the world.

Sadly, the last in the line-up is Pride Lands, and I was once again disappointed by this world. Taken as a whole, it’s probably the weakest of them, not counting Atlantica. That’s a huge shame, because it’s such a wonderful idea for a KH level, for many reasons. Besides being derived from one of the best and most popular Disney films, and offering great form changes, taking Summons from the first game and expanding on them in the sequel - treating them as true characters, who remember Sora and their adventures with him - was a beautiful concept. And it works so well in the Land of Dragons, even as Mushu gives way to Mulan as Sora’s chief point of contact. But Pride Lands just couldn’t pull it off. Here on the second pass, the Scar ghost makes for an intriguing idea made laughably underwhelming in execution, and the final Heartless boss is disconnected from any story content within that world or the larger plot. This is filler done wrong, and the best I can say for it is that it gave Sora more of a role than the first pass did - seeing him employ reverse psychology was fun.

(I might as well touch on the two optional worlds - true filler if there ever was any - while I’m here. I still think the 100 Acre Wood was needlessly shoved into the flow of the story during the first half, and the concept is still repetitive from the first game, but I have softened a bit from my earlier stance that it shouldn’t have been brought back at all - the minigames are a lot of fun, even if the world doesn’t quite pack the emotional punch it did in KH I. Atlantica, on the other hand, remains a colossal disappointment. I had forgotten just how much it forgets and/or ignores from KH I once Ursula shows up - logic is out the window at that point, the way Ariel and the others react to her. Her song is the worst of the bunch, and Ariel isn’t even involved in fighting her this time.)

I’ll go ahead and close on Hollow Bastion, and the second pass at Space Paranoids. Once again, we have some variety here. This time, it comes in the form of cross-cutting - cutscenes of Leon racing around preparing things juxtaposed with Sora’s gameplay inside the system. The only other time in the series I remember cross-cutting being this effective was in juxtaposing Aerith’s briefing of Donald and Goofy in Traverse Town with Leon and Yuffie doing the same for Sora in KH I. And there is an absolutely wonderful moment where Cid and Merlin finally come to a head (“OLD loon, you say!?”) It was another of those delightful bits that I’d forgotten about, and it only underscores how mistaken an idea it was to abandon this little unit in favor of “original” characters. When has Ienzo ever shown this kind of chemistry and interplay, with anybody?

But I do have to close on a negative this time. There are some nitpicks to be had with the second pass at Space Paranoids, such as Sora being more awkward about hugs than a computer program. There are legitimate story issues, such as the lack of good reason for the system going screwy. And there are missed opportunities - one of them related to that last point. Xemnas, or another of the ex-apprentices, could have been responsible for setting that off, which would have gotten Organization XIII involved in the last world right before the home stretch.

Less detrimental to this story, but more detrimental in the long run to the series overall, is the fact that the reveal about Hollow Bastion once being Radiant Garden doesn’t yield any revelations about the tritagonist of the series who came from said gardens. Kairi’s past is the one loose end from KH I that this game won’t end up resolving, and the series has never properly addressed it. Ansem SoD, possessing Riku, seemed to know her, and declared her “Princess” in no uncertain terms; one could infer from that that he knew her. The Final Mix of KH I would reveal that he deliberately selected her for an experiment to find the Keyblade. That this is all we’ve ever gotten - and that backstory concepts that might have suited her were given to other characters - is ridiculous. This game, if not the exact moment when Tron reveals the name Radiant Garden, was possibly their best chance to rectify this, and they blew it.

[adamoday]

The saga continues with this #pnw themed scene where magical sasquatch cyclopses conjure ancient spells to save the planet! Oil on canvas 18x24" (at Olympia, Washington) https://www.instagram.com/p/BvjtY1TgW29/?utm_source=ig_tumblr_share&igshid=1uoggx815fylu