#cotl discussion

[divinities-hymns]

The copious amounts of money I would pay for a cult of the lamb dlc about the post-game bishops is insane, I would do anything

Also look at Kallamar 🩵🩵

The way he immediately calls out to his siblings made me feel things 💔

[pessimisticshapewithablog]

@imadethisaccountforaheadcannon

Not necessarily by someone. Just circumstances of TOWW attaining godhood and his personality leading him to do whatever achieved his goals as efficiently as possible. Unfortunately that kind of thinking isn't flexible and can lead to a sort of tunnel vision where doing anything that isn't for the purpose of a set goal just isn't done. TOWW was efficient, not imaginative. For example, The Lich from Adventure Time. When he lost his chance to erase all life in the universe, he went into an inactive state. Catatonic and unresponsive until an opportunity to continue his plan arose. TOWW might have spent most of his time outside of being a death god in that state, bored out of his mind. TOWW was always capable of not being a cold, unapproachable person, maybe it just wasn't his personality.

TOWW developed a very consistent rationale that was easy for his siblings to interpret and understand. Enough that being passive and patient became a defining trait of his. Being considerably larger and possibly more powerful than his siblings, this would have made his presence more tolerable and less terrifying. Their brother was death incarnate, controlled and precise. They knew him, and that made him less scary to them, except for Kallamar lol. TOWW didn't like it but it's just how his mind works. It's why he enjoyed interesting and novel situations, he was sensory/experience seeking. 

When he began to change and evolve, thanks to Shamura, TOWW would have become unpredictable. What was once consistent and predictable, became strange and unknowable. And scary. His growth pushed him away from his sibling and the Old faith. The Bishops might not have forced TOWW to be the way he was, but they sure as hell wanted him to stay that way…

Previous Post on this topic.

[presidentoneko]

btw, i forgot to mention but in my cotl save is kind of funny, instead of having a diversity of followers they're all cat

i was running out of ideas to name every follower so at this point they're all getting named after random ocs from my internet buddies

and yes, there is a Sora Maigo in the middle of my followers and i keep taking care of her like a child in the kindergarten which is funny

[thecosmopossum]

Perhaps the bishops didn't start out looking all big and scary...

Anyways, say hello to my AU. I'm calling it Lamb in God's Clothing (LGC).

This comic is a little intro into one of the many changes the Lamb will undergo. As, throughout the story, the Lamb will tackle their new role of a God. Will they become the just and noble God they wish to have existed, or will they become like their predecessors? That is yet to be determined...

[aychama]

has Narinder ever walked into lamb trying to sheer their wool? has Narinder ever helped them do that?

[harpyco]

Manta and stingers(?)

Just me making a dark stingray so it will sting skykids and drain their light. Also, I give them a retractable stinger instead of how real stingray stings.

I got two colors of them and I wasn’t sure which one is the best.

[mightymelancholy]

You're not overeating or overthinking at all. I plan on playing Monster Road trip and can understand the reaction from I assume mostly non fans. Never have I once heard the devs on their channel or Twitter refer to the Lamb and now Goat has he/him or she/her. The fandom is very respectful and queer friendly and understands to use they/them for Lambert. The one that got upset with you just didn't want an opposing opinion. I hope the people replying to you and using the pronouns weren't bigots but just made a mistake.

But I doubt that for most. Some people probably just used their traditional mindset to gender the Lamb and began making things up. I like headcanons, some Lambs go by she/her and are called mother. Others are designed to be transmasc and have trans scara. Headcanon is perfectly fine but the people in the comments were most likely gendering them to be a cis man because in the trailer Lambert nervously sat near one of the female monsters. So, people probably assumed a cishet relationship and defaulted to Lambert "man."

Your not overthinking it, a non-binary character was being misgendered. It would be fine if it was a headcanon on Tumblr for example but to refer to the Lamb with gendered pronouns publicly could confuse people and perhaps misinform them. Not saying don't do it at all just think about that. The people using gendered pronouns in the fandom use them to refer to their Lambsona or have a queer headcanon. Most artists and other people part of the fandom are LGBTQ+ friendly (at least from what I've seen on mainly Tumblr and YouTube). Also the people using he/him for the Lamb probably had a heteronormative mindset and the pronouns wasn't in a queer way.

The Lamb is non-binary and goes by they/them (I want to it/it's for both Goat and Lamb). And the people were wrong because again I've never heard or seen the devs use anything other than they/them. Even if I missed a video or tweet neutral pronouns and "The Lamb/Goat" are the ones used most often so they/them would be the Lamb and Goat's preferred pronouns. Just like you seeing how queer friendly and creative the COTL fandom can be is pretty comforting. The Lamb is non-binary and that should be normal.

so like a week ago i watched a monster roadtrip gameplay just bc they have lambert in and i went to check the comment section just to find EVERYONE calling the lamb by he which okay, i thought that was such a weird and curious thing, so naturally i left a comment saying "the amount of people calling the lamb by he HUUUURTS" as in a funny way.

it was not taken in a funny way.

the op of the video answered me Very Seriously telling me that the devs call them by he, and so it was ok to call them by he. i was, or course, confused, since all content/mentions of the devs ive seen so far refer to them as well, them.

curious about where they got the info i answered that as far as ive seen massive monster goes they/them with the lamb, leaving it open to correction if i was wrong.

now im having a murder drones fan beefing with me for "pointing that out" like 😭 Honestly now im even more curious, i mean, ive only been in this fandom for like four months and the game is already two years old so there might be a chance that i Actually missed something on that front.

theres also the possiblity that they saw the devs calling them Lambert and Immediately assumed to go he/him on them wich is ???

a third possibility is that im overthinking this wayyy too much LMAO but nonetheless i wanted to share here.

like honestly to me theres nothing wrong with having your gender headcannons on your blorbos but 1) the lamb has been Incredibly Explicitly Stated as Non-binary almost everywhere i look and 2) that representation means the WORLD for me, for its thanks to the way the lambs gender is respected with absolute no questions in-game and throughout the fandom that i became more comfortable with myself and who i want to be, only resulting in making me feel kind of angry at seeing ppl so deliberately gendering them into what they assume is the 'correct' term djskfhkdhf but yeah i may be overreacting as far as im aware

[devi-ne-intervention]

fuck it. fav basegame spirit (non-seasonal) bc they deserve more love

pls do not answer elders btw i don’t mean em

[cultistic-ann-aka-sannaliel]

soooooooooooooo

I was drawing a reference of Leshy and suddenly…

new avatar ":D

[pessimisticshapewithablog]

Could TOWW not verbalizing this part of his 'deal' with the lamb show him as being more manipulative than inexperienced? When the lamb first meets TOWW, he tells them all he wanted in return for reviving them is to start a cult in his name. Only later does he reveal his true requirement: killing his siblings and freeing him. After the Lamb has proven themselves.

Narinder can and will hide things from the Lamb that he doesn't deem important for them to know, until it benefits him. Like him wanting the lamb to return the crown and sacrifice themselves for him. If anything it would have been naive of TOWW to reveal this plot earlier on, giving the Lamb a reason to just take the red crown and run.

TOWW knows how poweful the Lamb would need to become in order to defeat the bishops. It's likely why he banked on them being blindly loyal enough to him to let themselves be sacrificed. That's the naiveté right there. Thinking the Lamb did everything for him out of loyalty with no ulterior motives. Thinking that the lamb, who was literally sacrificed to him before, against their will, would willing do that again, by choice. Absolute goofball behavior lol. Then again his time as a god has severely warped how he views mortals and followers. At some TOWW may have lost the capacity to understand or empathize with 'lower' life forms, if he ever had the ability to do so to begin with...

The trap...

I have a theory that after the bishops were killed TOWW was technically free but wanted his crown back. So under the guise of some "final ritual" he lured the lamb into a trap. The Gateway. To get them back and have the advantage if the lamb did refuse.

While in the Gateway, the lamb loses their fleece, demons and has reduced i-frames. TOWW would have Baal and Aym to weaken the lamb if not outright kill them and take the crown back for him. The lamb would have no where to run. TOWW has been taking a great risk giving away his crown for a chance at freedom. But even when losing he always put himself at an advantage...

Jumping off the Realm Beyond theory,

But I think Narinder's general inexperience with life shows most in his deals with Ratau and Lamb. Because why is the returning of his crown not built into the deal?

I would dare say it's rather naive of him to not even consider that once a vessel grows so powerful, they wouldn't be inclined to return his crown.

It's possible he doesn't have the power at his disposal to enforce his deal in the same way The Fox can with Lamb, but even the wording of his contract leaves a LOT of room for betrayal.

"Start a cult in my name." But there is no requirement to maintain the cult. There's not even a requirement to worship The One Who Waits.

Desperate times, sure, but he's just asking to have his crown stolen--

[squid-pawz]

painted over my doodle from before 2 play w colors...might be cooking...

[alterednoon]

So I was watching a friend play COTL's DLC and-

This was my immediate thought about how that shoe got lost /lh /hj

[spiderin-space]

Throwback to when I would draw Kirby gijinkas

[pessimisticshapewithablog]

I've alway assumed TOWW, and the twins, were cat adjacent. A supernatural varient that was genetically compatible enough to reproduce with "normal" cats (there's something going on with Forneus so, I wouldn't necessarily call her "normal" lol). Also Massive Monster is notorious for their anatomically inaccurate creature designs (see: the birds...). TOWW's ears being portrayed as bony structures is very 'on-brand' for them lmao.

Because of the Red Moon Ritual phenomenon, I don't think the 'afterlife' is a thing for most regular folks, as their souls seem to just wonder around close to where they died. Seemingly in a state of limbo. Without intervention, they do that forever it can be assumed.

'The One Who Waits' seems to be an epithet specific to Narinder. It's describing a prominent characteristic about him. Similar to 'The One Below' given by Ratau. Because of what Narinder is/represent he is "that which awaits us all; death" as per the Wiki. Narinder is implied to have been a god for a very long time, TOWW may have become the common way to refer to him, after is real name was forgetten to time. Maybe oneday the Lamb will receive an epithet unique to them.

How are Death gods made?

I was thinking about TOWW's origin as a god. Maybe that was why TOWW was so different from his siblings? His origin as a god was one of death. Let's begin!

TOWW seems to be dead. He is a 'dead' death god. In mythology, gods of death aren't always dead themselves. As death for gods usually means they ceased to exist. This is very likely why the bishops couldn't kill him, only seal him away. You can't kill what's already dead. 

Now we know that gods in COTL can die just like mortals can, so whatever TOWW is, was not a normal death state for a god. Something about his death or how he died had to be significant enough to make him like this. Where death was a part of his being, enough to be a death god, not just the state he was in. Think Osiris, the Egyption god of death and mummification. He was not always a death god, he was once a living one with a different sphere of influence. Once he died, death became his portfolio. When it comes to death gods they are usually the first dead of their pantheon.

When it comes to how a death god is created it is expected for death to play a part in their origin. But this is not always the case. In some mythos, gods of death are living, they're just responsible for managing the dead. In TOWW's case it's implied that he is in fact dead. He makes a statement about his heart not beating and the state of his arms might imply some level of decomposition has occurred. The fact that he uses his eyes as combatants could also hint that his body isn't alive and he doesn't really need them, no other boss uses pieces of their body to fight us. 

Because TOWW is a 'dead' death god, I make these speculations under the pretense that all death gods in COTL are dead or must die to become one.The exact timeframe for when TOWW could have died isn't possible to know. He could have perished as a mortal and arose as an undead, possibly by the red crown, slowly gaining enough power to become godlike. Or he could have died as a god, and through some profane ritual, awoken as a death god. 

I liken TOWW's origins as a death god to that of a church grim. Church grims were guardian spirits of churches and their graveyards. They were 'created' when an animal, usually a black dog, was buried alive on the church grounds at its creation. It was believed they would serve as protectors and guides for the souls of the deceased. Animals were chosen to spare people from this eternal duty but not always. Their death was seen as a necessity.

COTL is a world of gods and the supernatural, so I imagine a church grim would be a real life necessity rather than simply a barbaric practice. But why, you ask, would Narinder have been at risk of becoming what amounts to a sacrifice? Well, he is a black cat. The devs state TOWW was designed after the belief that seeing a black cat would mean someone would die soon. 

With that in mind I imagine in the magical world of COTL that maybe a real possibility rather than a superstition. A possibility that could lead to prejudice against black cats. Maybe Narinder was a victim of prejudice, being murdered and turned into a church grim against his will? Maybe it was a cultural practice within society? Maybe it was a sinister ritual done under the cover of night. Maybe it was a punishment? Who can know?

Within the same cultures as church grims there was also a belief that the first person buried in a churchyard was tasked with protecting the souls of the deceased until the next funeral/burial. The newly dead would be their replacement. If something were to happen, and no more burials occurred there, that soul would be trapped in eternal vigil, with no replacement, and no way to pass on themselves. This is why animals were usually chosen. I believe this is the current predicament that TOWW is/was in. Why he seemed to grow tired of his duty as a god. 

"Lamb. Mortal life is so... fragile. So fleeting. So long did I stand at the gates between this life and the next, trapped at the nexus of what was and what wasn't."

-Narinder

Conclusion

Speculation Station 

In the beginning TOWW may have enjoyed the power of being a god but being dead may have been an uncomfortable state to be in for all eternity.

On a lighter note ,there is an IRL god with origins similar to church grims. Ankou, a servant of death. He was responsible for collecting the souls of the dead before he could go to the afterlife. This god has many disputed origins but he is the death god I personally associate most with TOWW. 

[theloremaniac]

I’m genuinely conflicted so I’m taking a gamble.

[i-eat-deodorant]

i'm sure you know this already but:

COTL ISN’T DELETING THEIR GAME.

1) in terms profit they'd pretty much shoot themselves in the foot with that decision, and as protest it's not very effective to make unity listen.

2) if they were, there would've been a much bigger announcement than a twitter tweet.

3) they confirmed they're not in both the discord and the twitter. after the deletion tweet went viral. which...ok.

4) it's probably a scare tactic to take advantage of the unity news to get more people to buy their game.

5) it probably worked.

so many people are focused on the unity issue that i don't think it's often talked about how much of a shitty pr stunt that was by the social media manager. people are fearmongering, sure, but the initial seeds were planted by that twitter post that really should've gone through some extra foresight.

hope they enjoy their extra revenue.