#comparing them and going insane btw

[simandy]

Do you even understand

Can you hear my screams from your house right now

[lesbiancarat]

saw someone on reddit asking about seventeen solos and listed the ones they knew and asked if they missed any (including covers and OSTs). and man if there's one thing maintaining the carat resources carrd over the years has taught me it's that most carats don't even know or remember half the stuff svt has released outside of their official discography

[sacchariferouspoet]

hm hm, starting to worry that my taste in forsaken ships is telling of something deeper!

[moonsidesong]

i think its kinda funny that ibis paint is regarded as the Broke Artist App or whatever (as opposed to more mainstream programs like csp or procreate) because its free and because of how popular it is with phone + finger artists while im jusg sitting here having used ibis for a cool eight years on purpose.

like i have an ipad and an apple pencil and all theyre very nice and i absolutely could move to a more powerful program i have the resources to do so but my change averse brain has decided they like it here a lot and im not leaving

[sevicia]

It makes me upset to see people calling AI stupid or just straight up saying "fuck AI" (even though it's in an art context) because it's like... I know and understand that the hate is directed at how it's being used currently and that people maybe just don't care like I do about this but it's upsetting because that's WORK. Not in a monetary sense at all but what everyone knows as AI didn't just sprout from the ground one day, it's decades of dedication and learning and development and collaboration to make a tool with the intention of making life better regardless of any one individual's intentions and it just makes me sad that there's so much panic around it, both from the whole "being replaced" thing that comes from waaay way back and also the very real concerns regarding generative AI. Like I can't just go up to someone and say "hey, isn't this cool?!" and expect them to understand I'm talking about AI as a tool and a product of passion and collaboration over time rather than a quick easy fix for when you want to see yourself as an anime character without having to learn to respect art first. I don't knowww it just makes me so so sad that something so beautiful is viewed in such a negative and strange light because the entire world refuses to slow down for a single second

[kohakhearts]

yeah im thinking about the full version of 1・2・3 again yeah its making my brain a little mushy about The Characters

[rotteneldritchhorror]

Listening to a pretty damn new (like account started uploading only this year) true crime / “disturbing media” YouTube channel and feeling insane for thinking they sound exactly like, and have a similar-ish editing style, to Rob Gavagan (who I’m also learning was apparently a creep)

[autism-corner]

=w=bbb

[callme-holly]

hiii!

can u pls do hcs for dallas winston with a soc??? and he has like a majorrr soft spot for her

also like how the gang feels about her

love ur work btw!!

𝐝𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐚𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐧 𝐱 𝐬𝐨𝐜!𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐞𝐫

a/n: might be patchy bc my birthday is coming up and i have shit tonnes planned!! but im trying y'all <33

You seem to be an exception to every rule Dallas has ever set. He’s always vowed that he hates socs and wants absolutely nothing to do with them, but somehow you managed to worm your way into his life.

He will try to push you away first, trying to shrug off your love for him. He won't believe that you actually like him and refuses to accept anything that shows that.

But after a while, and after you actually stick around and he sees how much you care, he’ll soften up a bit. You steadily become the only girl Dally has ever really trusted and while he’d never admit it out loud, anyone who knows him can see it.

He’ll treat you so differently from how he treats everyone else; he’s softer with you, a lot gentler in the way he handles you and speaks to you. His voice will go quieter compared to when he’s talking with the guys, and he’ll let you sit close to him without pushing you away.

If you’re ever upset, he tries his hardest to comfort you even if he’s not the greatest at it. He’s insanely protective of you—you’re the first girl he’s ever truly let himself fall for and he doesn’t want to ruin it.

How the gang feels:

Darry is skeptical as hell. It’s incredibly rare for Dallas to settle down with anyone, let alone a soc, and he doesn’t want to see his friend get hurt by some uptight soc. He’s convinced for a while that you’ll ditch Dallas when things get rough, but when you stick with him through more and more rough patches, he realises you genuinely care about him and he respects you for that.

Sodapop adores you and thinks it’s hilarious how soft Dallas is for you. He’ll tease you both about it, calling Dallas soft, and you find that Soda is just comfortable to be around. He doesn’t judge and he sure as hell isn’t rude to you.

Ponyboy doesn’t really understand at first. He knows Dally isn’t a good guy and just can’t understand why a girl like you would like a guy like Dallas Winston. It will take him a long time to realise that the two of you actually have something and when he does finally notice, he just lets it go and doens’t really interfere.

Johnny is pretty surprised but he doesn’t judge. He’s just glad Dally has someone who cares about him and whom he feels comfortable enough to be loose around. He finds that he quite likes you and warms up to you incredibly fast because of how nice you are to him.

Steve and Two-Bit hate it at first and don't trust you one bit. They’re constantly reminding Dallas that you’re a soc and how unreliable socs are and how high your expectations are. But as time passes and you keep hanging around more and more, they just let it go and don’t stick their noses in any more. 

[kisspurins]

hii!! i just discovered your blog and i really like the way you write ^^ could i ask either sungchan or eunseok (or both lol) x virgin!reader. thank you!!

୨୧ warnings｜dom sungchan and eunseok，size kink，corruption，virgin!reader，double penetration，anal，no protection，fat cock chan and seok，poly implied

when your boyfriends find out you're a virgin, immediately you could feel the tension between them bursting at the seams. between men there's a pride thing when it comes to taking a girls virginity and you could tell neither one of them were going to settle for being 'second'

for sungchan, when he thinks of you being a virgin he can never stop himself from letting his mind wander. every little thing you do has him thinking of how innocent you are and all the ways he can corrupt you :( he thinks of how he can treat you like a princess and make your first time the most special experience in the world and how slowly over time he can turn you into the perfect good girl for him <3 when eunseok thinks of you being a virgin, he thinks of how he can completely and fully break you. how it would be to have you spread open for him, eyes full of curiosity that so quickly gets replaced by the feeling of fear. how it would be to make it fit, your eyes wide and mouth opened for him to use and play with to his liking. taking your virginity isn't about the experience being special its about him making you so dumb you think of him only.

both of them combined is like constant whiplash. sungchan's sweet touches of encouragement while he kisses you, tongue pushed deep inside your mouth and exploring every single inch. his fingers dancing in your hair and down to the back of your neck to push you closer. him compared to eunseok's mean cold stare, hands on his belt as he watches you both makes you nervous. hearing him call you a liar because theres no way a virgin is so calm with tongue kissing, how his presence fills up the entire room. and suddenly being pulled away from channie and into seokies lap and :( he kisses you so rough and so sloppy... spit dripping from the corner of your mouth and his hands groping every part of you that he can touch!!!! you get so entirely messy n seokie does that off the bat to establish what dynamics are about to be present!!! its honestly a little shocking seeing channie get so small when seokie is pulling you around :( chanie going "come on seok be nice" and he sounds so defeated trying to do better for you but seok just tells him this is how he has to train you !!!! only way you'll know what to expect in the future </3

both of them have insaneeee size kinks btw 😞 both are so much bigger than you and its so easy to dumb you down enough to where you feel completely at their mercy and like the smallest lil thing in the world :( eunseok loves the mental mind games he can play on you </3 asking why cant you fight back when hes holding you down n pulling your clothes off n asking if you're just too small!! too small to think too small to push him away too small to do anything for yourself and :( pouting n fat tears rolling down your face bcs you feel so helpless n sungchan's holding you down too so maybe you are too little :( saying sorry n seokie makes you physically say you need him to do everything for you </3 sungchan is of course him making you feel small mentally but thats so easy when hes just insanely huge. every single part of him is huge and :( his dick being as big as his forearm and :( blinking at him and eunseok because they're both so big... too big for you when you've never felt anything before and !!!!!! just so hard not to feel dizzy and dumb :(

thinking seokie laying down on the bed n he tells you to get on top and you think hes being sweet to you finally n letting you control the pace :( thighs trembling while trying to push his blunt fat tip inside n your fingers keeps slipping :( accidentally letting go n hes so heavy slapping against your cunny n the only reason you aren't doubling over is because sungchan is holding you up :(( eunseok gets so frustrated when you can't push it in, smacking your hands away n squeezing the base of his fat cock n pushing the tip in and your eyes immediately roll back n your mouth drops n </333 shaking n sobbing holding onto him telling your seokie that it hurts n you can barely breathe ☹️☹️☹️ sungchan would distract you by kissing all over your shoulders n neck but all you can do is sob on eunseok's dick as he smashes himself all the way in n hes pressing into your g-spot </3 doesn't give you time to adjust just starts rutting his hips up into you n you feel so beyond dizzy!!! drool dripping onto his chest n he calls you so gross but his hips smack against you so roughly :( you're so out of touch from the pain you don't register channie behind you pressing you down on your boyfriends chest and you choke on your sobs when you feel him pressing against your hole, panicking and whimpering out little no's but seokie telling you to shut up n kisses you and :( just sobbing n sobbing when sungchan gets his tip in your asshole n you think you're gonna split in half.... sungchan feels so entirely bad too but the way you're squeezing around him and you feel so warm make it harder for him not to press down onto your back n push inch by inch of his dick in </3 hes so nice n gives you a second before he starts moving n trying to match pace w seok n yeah 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ you get so cock drunk you're barely responsive just nodding n babbling whine they both chase their orgasms </3 make you cum around them soooo much..... just white rings of cum but they can't stop using your perfect tight virgin cunny n mhm mhm

[mysterious-meat-cake]

First post on here and it's a rant!! If you want more cool takes you should totally follow me as I'll be posting here more often and have totally cool art to share‼️‼️

I'm not completely sure how to tag this? I'm talking about the ships in a positive light so I think it's okay, and besides, I want lots of peeps to see it, I'm aware I probably won't change many people's minds at all, but it's okay lol, I just want Anti's to see they genuinely have a nothing burger and need to leave people alone.

This is a mostly TikTok only problem regarding Beast x Ancient's (thank god) but I've seen my fair share elsewhere like on here. So lemme counter every argument I've seen so far cause you got a lot of time on your hands to be telling people to off themselves over Cookie ships 😭 put that hate into people who actually deserve it.

BILLFORD COMPARISON

Regarding ShadowVanilla specifically, people have compared the ship a lot from both sides, but what really got me is what I've seen here:

"Shadow Milk Cookie is way worse than Bill! He drove Pure Vanilla to insanity! He tortured him!"- This is in regards to how people bring up the fact Anti's are fine with one thing but not the other when it's basically the same thing they're against. Psychological, physical, mental, and emotional torture. I'll be honest I haven't watched Gravity Falls whatsoever, but my friend has, and from what she says, yeah Bill is the definition of a cruel and unusual punishment. He's done some crazy things, absolutely heinous, might even be a little worse than Shadow Milk or on the same level, either way though-

You can't like one thing and then not the other, it's different flavors of the same thing, it's hypocritical. Either you hate them both or you hate neither.

"Those are 2 different fandoms!"- Doesn't matter, it's the same thing, just different media, it's not different whatsoever aside from the universe, there's much torture involved on both ends.

ABUSER X VICTIM

This one I've seen A LOT and I'm just ??

"If you ship Beast x Ancient's you support Abuser x victim btw"- That's a STRETCH. You are reaching FAR. Nobody is romanticizing the abuse, nobody is normalizing it, it's stuff that happened in canon and we acknowledge it but nobody is doing any of that other stuff. I'm not condoning anyone in real life to do that shit lol. It's called exploring, they have an interesting dynamic, romantic or platonic, two sides of the same coin. You can say the same thing about horror movies, they put a lot of disturbing stuff in there. Do the movie producers CONDONE any of that stuff? Obviously not. Goes for Devsisters too, they don't condone body mutilation yet they still made Burning Spice rip off Cheese's wings.

But even so, for the people who DO like it for the angst, I won't say fiction doesn't affect reality because it does in many cases, but this isn't one of them. Not every relationship is going to be peachy and perfect, just like in real life. I can give an example on this one too actually.

GoldenLily, they aren't condoning what Lily (technically) did to Golden Cheese's kingdom, but they like it for all the potential, complicated feelings and emotions that come along with it.

Also, that's basically the same thing with Beasts x Ancients, just turn it around to enemies to lovers.

"This isn't Villain x hero, this is abuser x victim"- Are you saying MOST of media is abuser x victim then? This is in fact a typical hero x Villain trope, it's nothing new. Respectfully, you guys freak out when a Villain does villain stuff, I'd be surprised if there was a villain who DIDN'T cause any trauma for the opposing party. But according to this logic, media is just dead, no more fanfiction, no more what ifs, no more content since it's all apparently problematic and not canon. Even if somebody switches stuff up in an AU, and makes things completely fluffy, that's apparently still not enough.

"oh you had to make an AU to ship them because you know it's toxic"- No, it's just playing around with scenarios. Learn to separate fanon from canon. This specifically goes for the redeemed AU's I see of the Beasts, people still complain, they act as if people can't change. One of the biggest examples I have of that is FlutterCord, Discord did plenty of messed up things, but in the end, he still managed to change. You'll still get burned at the stake for it though.

"You must be an abuser yourself to condone this!!"- Extremely disrespectful and a WILDDD take. Need I say more??

"I ship Beast x Beast rather than Beast x Ancient's"- According to your logic, the Beasts are abusers right? And if we followed the same story, they are not mentally well whatsoever. You'd rather ship 2 dangerously mentally unstable characters together who'd just make each other worse? Destroy each other? Fuck each other up beyond belief? It doesn't make sense does it, nor is it fair for y'all to praise these ships but hate on the others. You like watching the cookies crumble huh 😭

CANON

"The ship isn't canon!"- We know that, everyone should know that. With what I said earlier, please learn to separate fanon from canon. That's what a fandom is, we do non-canon stuff, it's very fun, you should try it.

"It's a Proship/Dark ship!"- Going the canon route, Beasts are Eons old, Ancients are thousands of years old. Big gap yes, but nonetheless all of them are old as fuck. Older than bloodlines. Treating the Ancients as if they aren't grown adults. You're intentionally trying to make it weird. Stop calling ships you don't like proships please.

Also a little off topic but please don't listen to everyone you interact with on TikTok?? I remember one time I was scrolling through a comment section and saw somebody say "Doesn't Mystic Flour Cookie hate Burning Spice Cookie?" On a MysticSpice vid, looked in the replies, somebody asked for proof/where it was implied, and they didn't answer 💀 just blatantly spreading misinformation. Sources around you are way more reliable than people who don't back up their claims.

CONCLUSION

Even despite all this, you still have the right to feel how you wanna feel. Just please stop harassing people for simple stuff like this, in all honesty, I feel like it's more about seeing one of your favorite characters shipped with somebody who hurt them in canon that makes peeps upset. Which I can totally understand because I used to be exactly like that, I LIVEEEE for Dark Cacao Cookie, when Mystic Flour's update came out, I wanted her dead. Quite literally blocked someone because I couldn't stand seeing their MysticCao art. Hated what she did to my baby boy fr.

But then It started growing on me, over time, I just realized it was never that serious.

Even so, notice how I still didn't go out of my way to harass said person about it because I specifically didn't like it? It really is that easy. Block and go about your day.

I also suspect this because of stuff like this 💀

Love that person who replied, but it's not that hard y'all. We all can in fact, get along.

ANYWAYSSSS thanks to those who took the time read, I love you my pookies hope you have a good day or night💕💕

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

Hello!! I hope you're doing well! Do you have any recs for books about twisted/problematic relationships but with woc? Obviously there's our queen octavia butler but unfortunately for me i've finished reading all her books so i'm desperately craving for books that scratch this itch. Thank you for this blog btw i really love reading all your thoughts & reviews ♥️

goddd okay this list is not going to be nearly as long as I wish it was but it is extreeeeemely varied, so at least we have that going for us lmao. and hopefully you find something interesting in here:

right out of the gate if you're chasing that Octavia high, Rivers Solomon's novel Sorrowland feels very very in that vein. it starts with a teenage girl escaping from a Black separatist fundie cult while heavily pregnant with the cult leader's twins, deciding to give birth to the babies in the woods and raise them there. and boy, does it get crazier from there! there are some eventual transformative body horror sci-fi elements that I shan't spoil, but it's a time. the relationships are pretty secondary and genuinely not the most fucked up thing here, but our main girlie Vern is very much into girls and trying to figure that out on top of all the other horrors.

The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms is the first book in a fantasy trilogy by specfic queen NK Jemisin, and the first book in particular is really like. problematic relationship city. the protagonist is called to be an heir to a dying emperor and IMMEDIATELY gets embroiled in a love triangle with two of the gods that her family enslaves for power??? crazy shit.

I just kicked off this year reading a book called Darknesses by Lachelle Seville, which ALSO features a young Black woman fresh out of a cult (this one loves self harm and anorexia). and then she meets another Black girl who casually drops that she's Dracula, and oh boy do things get weirder from there. this book is like kind of Not Good but it is very entertaining; at a certain point you just have to turn off your brain and go with the vibes. it's sweeter than a lot of examples but listen, obsession and bloodlust are obsession and bloodust no matter how much your gf Dracula respects consent. there's a lot of murder!

this one doesn't have any supernatural bullshit afoot and is instead just regular degular #problematic, but Raven Leilani's Luster was one of my favorite books last year and follows an absolute shitshow of a young Black woman's extremely loaded and weird relationship with her older white boyfriend and his insane wife, as well as their adopted Black daughter.

anther no magic entry: I really love Oyinkan Braithwaite's My Sister, The Serial Killer, which is about exactly what you think it's about! the narrator is a put-upon Nigerian woman whose beautiful, beloved sister has murdered her last several boyfriends and has come crying to her dutiful sister to help her clean it up each time; the plot kicks in when the murdery sister sets her sights on the narrator's boss, a doctor to whom the narrator is also attracted. I know it's a sibling relationship instead of a romantic one but you didn't specify so! I am counting it!

this one is like very very very niceys compared to everything else I'm going to put on this list but it's also pretty hot so I have to mention it: Little Rabbit by Alyssa Songsiridej is about a young, bisexual Asian-American woman struggling to get a writing career off the ground falling in love with a Notably Older and wealthier white man and figuring out how to navigate the subsequent problems both within their own interpersonal dynamic and in how their relationship is received by others.

honorary mentions: books about fucked up white women that are written by women of color who Know!!

Under the Pendulum Sun by Jeannette Ng is a Victorian alternate history in which the English discovered the fairy realm and promptly did what the English did, ie, sending missionaries to teach the fairies about Jesus. the novel follows a woman traveling to the fairy kingdom to look for her missing missionary brother and promptly going insane as fairies gaslight gatekeep girlboss from all sides, complete with a side of everyone's favorite gothic horror trope: repressed sibling incest!

My Nemesis by Charmaine Craig is another very lowkey and grounded example, comparatively, but I thought it was neat and worth a mention! it's told from the POV of truly insufferable white woman writer whose emotional affair with a philosopher gets thrown for a fucking loop by the philosopher's wife, an enigmatic Chinese woman whose motivation the MC cannot guess literally at all. it's not the most exciting read in the world but the reveals hit hard and the reveals at the end made me YELL.

also for short story collections by WOC that can bring the #yikes factor in big ways I heartily endorse Roxane Gay's Difficult Women and Carmen Maria Machado's Her Body and Other Parties.

I wish I had more to throw you here; please if anyone has something to add to this list I am LISTENING

[skywalkr-nberrie]

I don’t want to come off as ‘condescending’ when I say this but I really don’t think people who aren’t as invested in Anidala’s relationship the way the shippers are have room to insinuate what we know and understand of their love story. You can’t go around saying things like “Anidala shippers ignore the darker parts of their relationship to enjoy the cuter and more adorable parts.” because that’s just plain false. Nobody understands Anidala more than the people who love them. Anidala shippers are more than aware of all the aspects of their beautiful and pure love story, that also holds darker themes at some points too. And may I add that “accepting�� the existence of their “darker moments” doesn’t mean they’re “unhealthy” or “toxic” btw.

Anakin & Padmé have always been a devoted, domestic, insanely, and madly in love married couple who support each other and help each other up in their toughest times together, did their best to work things out when it went wrong, and never lost hope for a better future together. Everything they did was literally out of pure and deep-passionate love for each other. They were the ‘picture perfect’ of married love birds, and anything bad in their love mostly came from outwardly forces working against them.

You can’t compare them to another canon couple (whom are also healthy, adorable, and perfect together) that have a completely different writing style to Anakin & Padmé’s. Keep in mind that Anakin & Padmé are written in the inspiration of a Shakespearean tragedy, a fairytalistic fantasy, a literal Space Opera. Their love story is going to be a lot more enhanced in theatrics, dramatics, and intensity… which means a lot more problems, trauma, and tragedy. Which makes sense because they hold the key to the entire narrative in the ‘Skywalker Saga’, they’re quite literally the “plot.” (Mother and Father of Star Wars.) You can’t go comparing something as huge as that to another normal and domesticated couple that hold a smaller purpose in the story. Their writing style won’t be the same as Anidala’s, which may give you the illusion that Anidala is “toxic” or “unhealthy” but they’re really not. They’re just written from a different and much larger perspective thus it takes media literacy to be able to intake both forms of writing styles to understand both couples.

[moldybonessmell]

John Walker is a well-written character and you're ready for this conversation

// Thunderbolts SPOILERS

I went in to watch Thunderbolts before I checked out TFATWS and was under impression Walker's some kinda insane dude with anger issues by the way everyone treated him (including fandom) and how surprised I got when I actually watched his story unfold and realised...

..he's a saint compared to the rest of Thunderbolts lol.

Don't get me wrong, he definitely has sins, but compared to this particular group of individuals he's nothing😂.

He's a soldier, got a title of Captain America from the government, and tried his best to live up to VERY HIGH expectations (the same ones we later see Sam himself struggling from btw). The problem is that John's a soldier who can fight well and not a peacekeeper. Growing more and more frustrated with how he fails to do this very honoured job he ends up being caught up in being ridiculously human. And together with super-serum complications (I suspect it amplified his emotional problems because he WAS NOT behaving like this before taking it, even Lemar says he's always been good in battles and made right decisions before) and grief John let his emotions get control over him.

You DO know he killed this guy because he was strieken with grief over his best friend Lemar dying, right? It's important to me that you know that.

Let's be real, John is a soldier and admits to doing some bad stuff in Afganistan to get these 3 badges of honour. The only reason he suffered the consequences he did is because it was public and people had expectations of him. If he was a regular soldier and killed 'a terrorist' he would even get another reward.

The fight between Walker and Sam & Bucky was clearly his mental breakdown as guilt and grief consumed him. And it seems like the only way he knows how to handle his emotions is to turn them into anger. Which is quite common for men btw.

Is John Walker a good person? Not exactly. Does it make him an interesting, complex and realistic character? Hell yeah.

The thing is, we see him choosing to do the right thing aka let go of Karli and save people in the same show even before Thunderbolts.

In Thunderbolts tho we see him over and over choosing to save people even if it's some random assasins team. Shit, he even launches himself to shield Bucky from bullets even when Bucky would be fine to block them with his metal arm. The thing that I noticed in Thunderbolts is how he starts using the shield to protect others and not as a weapon how it was in TFATWS.

The other thing that separates him from most of Thunderbolts team is that he's not an assasin in its sense, but a soldier who does what he does from patriotic standpoint. It doesn't exuse or justify his actions btw I'm very anti-military, but it gives him more depth than just being a killer.

In the end of the day he's stuck in the same limbo of trying to show his worth and seeking redemption for his sins just like other misfits of Thunderbolts.

He'd definitely use some work on how to handle his emotions in a healthy way and not just resolve to anger every time, but I genuinely don't understand how is he hated SO MUCH in the fandom.

Isn't it like the whole point of releases of this phase to show that people can't be perfect and if they are doing their best it's enough?

I'm not a John Walker apologist or excuser, but a secret third thing of an enjoyer of morally complicated characters.

[dalliancekay]

Aziraphale and Manipulation

I want to address a couple of things re: manipulation

Aziraphale is naïve and gullible and easily fooled

Aziraphale is a manipulative asshole who doesn't take no for an answer

Metatron

Points 1 and 2

Funny how both of these seem to be true at the same time for people who dislike Aziraphale or think that Crowley should never be challenged or disagreed with or teased, even though in canon, he literally says or acts in ways that prove he absolutely loves his unpredictable spouse who makes him laugh and react and act in unexpected ways.

Which also points to the strange discrepancy in how fanon Crowley is incredibly powerful, having had created the entire Universe AND brought a human back to life (neither of which is true btw) and also weak cos he gives in to his partner against his will (I know this is not how manipulation of that kind works, but I also don't think people who accuse A/C of this unhealthy dynamic understand our couple so it's just a stupid comparison because Aziraphale knows exactly when to back down from teasing his love, much like he did with the car colour to calm Crowley's agitation).

I am not going to address these points at any length anyway, because I think they are, frankly stupid. I am just pointing out that people who make Aziraphale a villain can make him a villain in any way they wish, even if the points are on opposite scales and both untrue.

And just so you know, Crowley would hate you for this. Crowley adores the angel because Aziraphale is constantly challenging him, surprising him and bringing his best self out. Because Aziraphale is silly and kind and believes in the best of everyone and thinks being good is a superpower.

Point 3

I feel like my manipulative and your manipulative might be different manipulatives in the fandom. Especially when it comes to Final 15.

For me, Metatron being manipulative means him not saying things straight, not saying what he really means, because such things as he wants and plans are not really 'good' good, if you see what I mean. And we can't have that for Heaven. After all, we aren't killing Job's kids... we are just ... not stopping Hell from killing them - Gabriel learned from the best. When Metatron decided on running circles around Aziraphale and has carefully chosen his words ("Now if you wanted to work with him again, that might be considered irregular..."), he made sure Aziraphale understood that the 'offer' was actually a way out of something far worse that Metatron was not going to stoop down to name (or perhaps he did but we didn't see it).

And Aziraphale understood and his heart broke and he started to feel truly terrified (we saw it in real time - just compare the above gif with the below one when Furfur too, threatened Crowley

And then poor Aziraphale tried to go on and explain all this to Crowley while not knowing how and suspecting he will be closely monitored while doing so.

Now. Anyone who thinks Aziraphale would want to make Crowley an angel to make him HAPPIER has completely misunderstood both Aziraphale and imo, Good Omens too.

Crowley was happy when we met him before time in S2 because he was innocent and fully himself (3/4 goofy, 1/4 part self-centred). This is not something Aziraphale could achieve (even if wanted to - but why would he?) by making him an angel again. And he's definitely not stupid to think this would happen. It might have happened if they took Crowley's memories perhaps. And he'd be back to his young self. Like Gabriel/Jim. And if you think Aziraphale would agree (or like!) that, you are insane.

This:

is a threat. Letting Aziraphale know that him going to Heaven (and Crowley agreeing to one more drastic change on top of going there) is the only way they could perhaps work together again. Staying, was never an option. And I don't actually care if that's something that can be done and/or whether Metatron would have followed through if Crowley by some miracle had said yes.

Because Metatron clearly expected Crowley will say no (I also suspect he had good reasons to expect this, perhaps some that Aziraphale doesn't know of), and I bet Aziraphale knew in his heart of hearts that Crowley would never agree either. Perhaps he didn't even want him to agree. He wouldn't want Crowley to be unhappy. But then, he was going to end up unhappy anyway, was he not? They both were. There was no other way. So if Aziraphale allowed himself a bit of hope that they could be together still, who are we to blame and judge him for it? (No, don't answer that.) He must have thought this is forever. That they are parting forever.

But for some people, it seems to me, Metatron being manipulative means that Metatron pulled on some of Aziraphale's 'strings' and blinded him to make him come to Heaven against reason/common sense/better options/forever and ever with his love.

Whether it's his trust that Heaven can be made good - Aziraphale is many things, but he is not vain, he could not possibly think he can fix Heaven by himself like some incarnation of Melon Tusk. Try? Perhaps. With Crowley? Maybe. But in current situation? He did not believe that.

or perhaps Aziraphale missed Heaven? Missed being part of the Plan? Missed God? Wanted to get back on it? Like the poor little lost sheep he is? Please. The angel pursed his lips and looked over his shoulder when Crowley was happily switching on stars in his Nebula, talking of suggestion boxes. Aziraphale knew Heaven was far from perfect or benevolent or merciful or even understanding, long before Crowley.

So no, Aziraphale wasn't led like some puppet on a string, fed a few lies, gotten a few bits of praise and forgotten everything he ever thought or knew. Do you think Aziraphale is so stupid he didn't see Metatron wanted him to come to Heaven without making a fuss? He didn't need to see (what Crowley saw in Heaven) to understand he was being made to come quietly. And perhaps Aziraphale understood too, that coming without cuffs and with his memories intact will give him whatever little leverage he can get.

Metatron also knew giving the wayward angel in front of him any spare moment could end up in disaster, because that exact thing happened before.

What was Aziraphale supposed to do if Metatron didn't take a no (a several of them in fact) for an answer? Metatron is the Voice of God, apparently the highest being after God. Was Aziraphale to ignore Metatron? Go back to the bookshop and lock the door?

What would have happened? Metatron would throw his arms up and go - oh well, I guess I'll leave them to their Armageddon averting, huge miracle making partnership where they can easily fool and blind both Heaven and Hell combined with barely any effort. No reason I should worry.

But he should worry.

Because Aziraphale fooled Hell easily once

And he can do it with Heaven too

And he will.

[sageandred]

I don't even really go here, but the Ginny and Georgia difference in hate is crazy.

Georgia murders 2 men, crosses and has unhealthy boundaries with her daughter, overpowers her voice in therapy, & commits financial abuse by screwing up her credit, and people say, "she was trying to give her a better life." Ginny dares to have complicated feelings about that and especially question the murders (when she doesn't even initially know the reason behind them), in which she's difficultly placed as cause for them (which would stir up a lot of feelings of guilt), and people say, "she's ungrateful and needs to treat her mom better." It's veeery weird how people can empathize with Georgia's trauma and how she grew up, but not understand a 16 year old experiencing the effects of generational trauma at the hands of her own mother. This contributes to the narrative that 'because a parent means well, they can't harm you' and is so problematic. The scene last season where she forced Ginny to show her sh scars; I don't know how, but I don't think people realize that, that can be traumatizing, and yet you still get unrelated criticism on the edits like, "Ginny's annoying" and "Ginny's selfish." It's so obvious that Ginny is a depressed girl, and I feel like people regard Marcus' more, but the two of them are 2 opposite spectrum examples of depression and just show it differently. God forbid, a teenager be a little self-absorbed and more focussed inward to notice someone's mental health when she's experiencing her own confusing trauma in real-time and feels safe enough to verbalize it for the first time in her young, unstable life to her first love. Her anger/lashing out and her self-absorption are actually a symptoms of her depression. If people on this app were making a post on real-life situations, they'd be advocating for mutual mental health understanding & to be easy on yourselves for not noticing a friend's depression. But regardless of this girl's own trauma, depression, and life stressors, all of that gets ignored compared to the continuous grace that other characters get, and her character worth is based around if "she treated her mom better" per season.

This show is actually so weird, because they do everything in their power to show that Georgia's an abusive mom, even though I know the narrative isn't aiming for or trying to tell you that. This isn't hate to Georgia, btw (and not dismissing her own trauma and abuse), but the difference and glaring hypocrisy is insane.

I swear Ginny can't do anything without someone still finding reason to hate her. Abby was a rude bitch, Max was selfish & a bad friend, and Marcus was not perfect in season 1 by kind of leading on Padma & being nonchalant of people's feelings by flirting with Ginny, while she had a boyfriend, but every season no matter how much she improves there is some commentary that "Ginny was kind of rude there and she gives mean girl behavior." (no, because honestly-saw edits & people being like, the way she treated Max was uncalled for, but Abby literally talked bad about her the minute she left and called her feelings too much to her face). Like oh my god. Like OH MY GODDDD