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silalcarin · 4 months ago

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Cloti's growth in touch and why their famous kiss may foreshadow their canon status in Part 3

In Remake, in Tifa's Resolution, Tifa approaches Cloud for comfort, and after a while, he reciprocates and hugs her.

Let it be known that, throughout the entirety of Remake, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud shares a hug. Yes, Tifa had to initiate the physical contact, but it doesn't change the fact that Cloud never shares a hug with anyone else in the game.

However, in Rebirth, if Tifa is Cloud's date during the second Gold Saucer visit:

During the Loveless play, Cloud pulls Tifa towards him and touches her waist as he spins her.

During the Skywheel date, Cloud initiates a hug with Tifa, in both the low affinity and high affinity versions.

And, if it's the high affinity version of the date, after the hug, Cloud initiates a kiss with Tifa.

Let it be known that, during the Loveless play, between the 3 female party members, Tifa is literally the only one whom Cloud pulls towards him, and Tifa is literally the only whom Cloud touches as he spins her. (Video source)

Let it be known that, out of all the possible date options in the Skywheel, in all of the low affinity and high affinity versions of each and every single date, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud initiates a hug, and, most significantly, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud initiates a kiss. (Video source)

Now, remember that the entire Final Fantasy franchise is a JRPG. This is a franchise made in Japan, a country in the Eastern hemisphere. Back in 1997 (when the OG FFVII was released) and even today, in Eastern countries like Japan, public displays of affection are still taboo. So, if a kiss ever does occur in an anime or video game, especially if it's aimed for teenaged males, the kiss will only happen once (this is not always the case, but it is still the norm, even today), it will only happen between a canon couple, and it will be treated with the utmost significance.

Most notably, throughout the entire Final Fantasy franchise, the only pairings that have ever shared an on-screen kiss have been canon couples. (Video source)

As you can see in the provided video, all of those Final Fantasy pairings that have kissed on-screen before Cloti are canon couples:

Cecil/Rosa ─ FFIV (1991)

Squall/Rinoa ─ FFVIII (1999)

Tidus/Yuna ─ FFX (2001)

Rasler/Ashe ─ FFXII (2006)

Snow/Serah ─ FFXIII (2009)

Noctis/Lunafreya ─ FFXV (2016)

Terence/Dion & Clive/Jill ─ FFXVI (2023)

Now, by the end of Rebirth, Cloti is still not a canon couple. The Gold Saucer date in Rebirth is mandatory; it's just that who becomes Cloud's date depends on how well the player has treated the other party members. However, no matter who ends up being Cloud's date, there are still no canon couples at the end of the game.

But, remember, the Lifestream event (where Tifa pieces the Real Cloud's mind back together, and the Real Cloud's POV of the Nibelheim incident is shown) and the Highwind scene (where Cloti makes love under the Highwind) from the OG game have not been covered yet.

Most likely ─ particularly due to the importance of the Lifestream event (not just within the game, but based on what the game's creators have said in the FF7 10th Anniversary Ultimania and 25th Memorial Ultimania) ─ both scenes are being saved for Part 3.

For the time being, as of now, only theories can be made about what will happen to Cloti in Part 3 ─ such as how different the Lifestream event will be, now that a somewhat similar event has already happened with Tifa at the Gongaga reactor in Rebirth; if the high affinity version of the Highwind scene will be the only one used; if more nods to Trace of Two Pasts and the new 2000 Gil to Become a Hero will be referenced, etc.

But...

Because out of all the possible Skywheel dates, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud shares a kiss. And in a video game franchise that's geared towards teenaged males like Final Fantasy, only canon couples have ever shared an on-screen kiss ─ as early as FFIV (1991) to as late as FFXVI (2023), the latter of which was released just 1 year before Rebirth. The fact that Cloti has already shared an on-screen kiss, after all those canon couples, may foreshadow them becoming a canon couple in Part 3.

This is emphasized by the fact that Kazushige Nojima, the head writer of the Remake trilogy, also wrote Trace of Two Pasts and 2000 Gil to Become a Hero (which, as of now, can only be found in the FF7 Rebirth World Preview, which hasn't had any official translations yet).

In TOTP, Cloti is established as having been childhood friends up until they were 7 and 8 (it's heavily implied that Tifa's father didn't approve of their relationship and, off-screen, he threatened Cloud to stay away from her, even before the Mt. Nibel bridge incident). Tifa didn't know how she felt about Cloud initially because he was "a beautiful, untouchable presence," but she realized she is in love with him after their promise; read the quote below. (Sadly, because Nojima used "suki", SENA translated "suki" to "like", since, admittedly, "suki" can be both "like" and "love". If only Nojima had used "daisuki"...) (Source)

"But once the promise was sealed, it seemed to her a thing of singular importance. She'd discovered that Cloud ─ the quiet neighbor who had always seemed as unreachable as the stars ─ was just a normal boy like any other. She'd come to understand that she did like him. And it was that special kind of "like" ─ the one that ties up your heart, making you yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days." (Source: Official English translation, "Traces of Tifa", page 25 ─ Amazon Kindle Edition)

In 2000 Gil, during Cloud's journey to Midgar to become a SOLDIER when he was 14, it's reaffirmed, from the OG game, that the only reason why Cloud wanted to be a SOLDIER in the first place is because of Tifa. (Source)

"This was something he wanted to do of his own free will. He would do whatever it took to become a SOLDIER. If there was a path, he would try to walk down it. If there was a door, he would try to open it. Because didn't he promise Tifa? Of his own free will, he had decided to become an exceptional man. To become a SOLDIER, a hero, and a special existence to Tifa."

Again, Nojima is the head writer of the Remake trilogy, and he also wrote TOTP and 2000 Gil. Therefore, what Nojima writes is 100% canon.

Why would Nojima go through all the trouble of writing that: (1) Cloti has a hug in Remake; (2) Cloti were childhood friends after all and Tifa fell in love with him in TOTP; (3) Cloud's desire to become a SOLDIER solely for Tifa is reiterated from the OG game in 2000 Gil; (4) the entirely new Gongaga reactor scene was added in Rebirth, where (a) Cloud becomes catatonic after Sephiroth gaslit him into attacking Tifa, stays in her room alone as she sleeps, and doesn't fully recover until she wakes up the next day, and (b) Tifa discovers the truth about what happened during the Mt. Nibel bridge incident; (5) Cloti nearly kiss after the events of #4 in Rebirth; and (6) Cloti has a kiss in Rebirth? (For #6, remember that only canon couples in Final Fantasy have ever shared an on-screen kiss up until Cloti in Rebirth.) Why?

It's actually really damn obvious why. Because, as I said earlier, it may foreshadow that Cloti will become a canon couple in Part 3.

NOTE 1: I keep saying "may foreshadow", because, officially, as of now, we don't know what's going to happen in Part 3. We have to wait until 2027 ─ 3 more years ─ for Part 3 to be released and find out what will happen.

NOTE 2: I know that some people may wonder why I'm not referring to Cloti as being already canon.

Let me explain.

I first played the OG FFVII when I was 11. I'll be honest, I had just hit puberty, so I didn't care about shipping at the time. However, even as an 11-year-old girl, as soon as I got to Sector 7 and Tifa was introduced as Cloud's childhood friend, I knew that Cloti was going to be canon by the end of the game. Even before Aerith was killed and the so-called "love triangle" was officially killed along with her, as soon as it was established in Sector 7 that Cloti had known each other since they were children, I knew that Cloti was going to be canon.

If anything, I think that FFVII made me start shipping in general. And I think Cloti was my very first ship. (I say "I think" because I genuinely don't remember how my 11-year-old brain worked.)

Also, I know that the various Ultimanias have (1) stated that Cloti realized they were in love with each other after the Lifestream event, and (2) shown screenshots of the high affinity version of the Highwind scene and not the low affinity version.

However, here's the problem, which I know has been complained about here on Tumblr and other sites: the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII screwed everything up, especially Advent Children.

AC establishes that Cloti lives together with Marlene and Denzel, but they're never actually stated to be a couple in the film, and their interactions, for most of it, are depressing AF. I remember how heartwrenching it was when Tifa lamented that they were "not a real family." This frustrated me as a teenager in the mid-2000s.

Now, remember that, in the mid-2000s, the Internet was nowhere near as ubiquitous as it is today. Any Final Fantasy-related Ultimanias were not available outside of Japan, not even fan translations. Therefore, I had no idea that the AC Reunion Files ─ where Tetsuya Nomura describes Tifa as being "a sweetheart", which is translated from the word "koibito" ─ existed at the time.

Then, in Dirge of Cerberus, in which Cloti briefly appears with Barret, they're only actually shown together once.

After AC and DOC felt like huge letdowns for me regarding Cloti, along with me entering high school around that same time, I lost interest in shipping in general for over a decade. In terms of Final Fantasy shipping, it was because, even though I saw that Cloti was a couple by the end of FFVII, Square jerked us around because they prevaricated over Cloti's canon status in the Compilation. Nowadays, I can't remember how my teenaged mind worked, so, at best, I think I can say that I never stopped shipping Cloti; I just didn't partake in exploring it or any of my other ships in general for over a decade.

TL;DR ─ If the Compilation didn't exist, I wouldn't have had any reason to doubt Cloti's canon status in the mid-2000s. I never doubted the beauty of Cloti itself; it's just that the Compilation made me feel disheartened over their canon status.

Now, I'm aware that Crisis Core ─ which reiterates Cloti's feelings for each other ─ was released 1 year after DOC. However, I'll admit, because I put FFVII out of my mind for over a decade, I didn't even know that CC existed until literally last year (yes, 2023). When I finally discovered it by stumbling upon its fan-translated cutscenes, I liked it. It's one of the only things I like in the Compilation.

But…

What truly revitalized my interest in Cloti again, after I got back into Final Fantasy recently, was hearing about a leak, pre-release, that Cloti shares a kiss in Rebirth. And then, post-release, I saw that Cloud initiating a kiss with Tifa in Rebirth blew up on social media and YouTube.

Then, my interest in the Remake trilogy (yes, 4 years after Remake came out) and its supplemental material like TOTP was piqued. I have the official English translation of TOTP through Amazon Kindle. I now own a PS4 and have played Remake, using the Japanese voices and English version subtitles. But, for the time being, I can't play Rebirth because I don't own a PS5. Everything regarding Rebirth, I've had to learn about either through spoilers on social media or YouTube.

Then, I saw that Crisis Core had an updated re-release in 2022 called Reunion, with the UI and character models resembling the Remake designs.

Now, remember that Crisis Core Reunion ─ with its usage of Remake's UI and character models ─ still shows what really happened at the Nibelheim incident (or, rather, how Zack thinks it happened). Also, while some of the dialogue changed, the Cloti scenes did not: Tifa still subtly asks Zack if Cloud is also a 1st Class SOLDIER; Tifa still sends emails to Zack about a blond SOLDIER/blond knight in shining armor; Cloud still tries to protect Tifa, even though he's just a grunt; Cloud is still ashamed that he didn't become a SOLDIER, and thinks that he didn't keep his promise to Tifa by failing to protect her; Zack still senses that something's going on between Cloti; Cloud still caresses the unconscious Tifa's cheek; and Cloud still lays Tifa down on the floor before he fights Sephiroth.

Now, also remember that the Lifestream event ─ which, again, among other things, shows the Real Cloud's POV of the Nibelheim incident ─ has not been covered yet.

Yep, all of the above got me excited for Cloti again, for the first time in a long time.

Also, as I said earlier, given that Nojima is consistent in his writing thus far in Remake, TOTP, 2000 Gil, and Rebirth ─ particularly for Cloti ─ I have hopes for Part 3, and that, afterwards, Square will finally state that Cloti is canon and then never ever touch them again.

(End my extremely long explanation for NOTE 2.)

(Also, end my long post.)

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firstknightvulion · 8 months ago

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Gold Saucer.

Cloud and Tifa exit the Skywheel.

The two try to look at each other but shyness overwhelms them as they catch each other’s eyes. They quickly look away from each other. The pair stand around like awkward ducks for a moment before Tifa breaks the silence.

Tifa: We should probably head back to our rooms.

Cloud: Yeah…prob’ly.

Suddenly, Aerith bursts out from behind a moogle. Eyes crazed.

Aerith: So, did you two f-

Cait Sith: FORTUNES!!! Get your fortunes here.

So, I’ve been watching Team Four Star’s Final Fantasy VII Abridged series and I just finished Rebirth.

It inspired me.

Full disclosure, the chapter 12 date my first go around, I got Red XIII.

To quote Abridged Barret: I fucked up.

So after the shock wore off and I reloaded my save and literally did two Synergy Attacks, I got the Tifa date. The high affection one. And we all know what happens on that date.

And my headcanon Aerith would spy on them.

So, I headcanon Aerith as a Cloti shipper. One who has become slightly unhinged about the subject due to the subjects at hand being…really shy. Like frustratingly demure and hesitant.

#funny #shitpost #final fantasy 7 #final fantasy vii #cloti #cloud x tifa #ffvii #ff7 remake #ffvii remake #ffvii rebirth #ff7 rebirth #ff7 #aerith gainsborough #cloud strife #tifa lockhart #cait sith

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deeable · 1 year ago

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i'm so excited for cloti's gold saucer date in rebirth. i wonder what they talk about in this picture from the trailer, seems like tifa is sad over something and cloud agrees with her. i saw some people saying that they are gonna look at the posters and talk about jessie because she was an actress at gold saucer and yeah, i think that's most likely the case.

then we got this shot of their date. notice how cloud is not crossing his arms like he often does and his body faces slighty to tifa. she always respects his personal space and he definitely feels comfortable around her. i personally don't think tifa is gonna half confess her feelings to cloud like in the og because she knows he's mentally in a weird place right now. tifa is a patient person and i don't think she would feel the need to tell him before aerith does. the girls are better friends in the remake.

all i know is that their date is gonna be special like tifa's resolution scene where we got a glimpse of real!cloud. it would make sense considering they know each other the longest and the best. 🐥🐬

also here is tifa looking at the fireworks and smiling. :)

#cloti #cloud x tifa

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pearl-aqua-fantasy · 7 months ago

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Saw this on pinterest seemingly showing that Cloud is looking in Tifa's direction during this scene. So naturally I had to go watch the scene and see...

This is when the girls go up to the window

And this is after when Yuffie points and tells them to look at what she's seen.

Soooo maaybe 🤭 It wouldn't surprise me!!

#this is all in good fun #my man could be just looking past them #but its funny to look through our shipper lenses sometimes #and let's be honest this boy always looking at Tifa #cloti #cloud x tifa #cloti gold saucer #cloti always watching

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elegantwoes · 7 months ago

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If Clerith is canon, then how come there only exists the possibility for Cloud to kiss Tifa in the game? At the point where Aerith is still alive. And as for your question about why Aerith needs to die like in the original, it’s partly because she needs to be in the Lifestream to summon Holy. There’s also the fact that Final Fantasy 7 is a game about loss and finding the strength to still live despite said loss. Aerith’s death works because she was a character who loved life, and thus to see that vibrant spirit suddenly snuffed out is tragic. And as for the whole Clerith vs Cloti thing, the Sector 5 dream date kind of puts a wrench in that with Aerith’s dialogue about “knowing where they stand” and the difference between “liking someone and liking someone”. The love triangle is an illusion that ends when Cloud regains himself, and the player can no longer choose dialogue options for him. Nojima seems to be going full steam ahead with Cloti and Zerith in Part 3, and while it’s fine not to prefer that, that’s what’s happening.

The reason why I question the choice of killing Aerith again is because the devs have said that dying is a fate/promise that Aerith is desperately trying to escape. Couple that with the fact they promoted Remake and Rebirth so far with posters as, “Defying fate,” and making the characters say “the future isn’t set in stone”. Near the ending of Remake you the player gets to defeat fate. Introducing alternative worlds where Zack and Biggs are alive. Implying that even if Cloud didn’t save Aerith in his world there is another world where she did survive and that Aerith is waiting for him. All of this sweet build up and for it to what? To go down the route of, “psych, no you cannot change your life. You need to give up and resign to whatever is coming your way.” Giving hope to not follow through with what you have been hinting at isn’t good storytelling. It’s pure sadism. But no matter. I am relatively confident that Aerith will get her wish. To live long happy life with her friends and Cloud.

Zerith is a ‘couple’ that doesn’t exist. It was created by certain shippers to get Aerith out of the way without being overtly hateful to her. Aerith is allowed to have somewhat complicated feelings to Zack without her feelings for Cloud being diminished. Zack may have been her first love, but there is no doubt that Cloud is her true love. That is clearly established in the alternative world where Marlene says Aerith is In love with Cloud. This is even further hammered down when Aerith has the opportunity to fight with either of them near the end of Rebirth but while she heals Zack she chooses to stand by Cloud and with him fight against Sephiroth. Zack himself has accepted that Aerith moved on. He wants Cloud to save her and not let her die. If only people more understanding like him.

As for the kiss you speak of. Nojima said that all the Gold Saucers dates are separate from the main story and more similar to dating sims. The fact that the kiss did not change the relationship between Cloud and Tifa in the main story shows it should be treated like it never happened. No impact means not relevant. It’s interesting you believe that is the direction the game is going. We each can have our interpretation and can only wait for the part 3 game in a few years to confirm whose analysis is right. Until then I say goodbye, anon.

#woes answers #ff7 remake #ff7 rebirth #Clerith #Anti Cl*ti #Anti Z*rith

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altocat · 9 months ago

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Things I really liked about Rebirth (spoilers obviously)

The music

Cody Christian being deranged

Rufus getting fleshed out and being super competent

Glenn adding a cool relationship dynamic between Sephiroth and Rufus

The Tifa floating around in the weapon scene

Nanaki being a very good boi

Sephiroth being a huge fucking troll who is in it for laughing joking numbnuts while everyone suffers

Hojo doing Hojo things and also more fucked up lore

Pretty much all of Vincent's scenes

Cloti kiss finally

Clerith hug

Barret being super fucking funny

Gi lore was neat

Roche actually serving the larger plot

Sane!Sephiroth got a few melancholy moments to shine

Everyone's acting

Cloud Junior the birb

Gold Saucer being sooo sparkly like my dreams always envisioned

The ending low-key might be setting up Cloud and Tifa emotionally confronting the grief of Aerith's death together in the Mideel sequence which would be super cathartic for both of them.

#ff7 #ffvii #final fantasy 7 #sephcanons #ffvii rebirth #Ff7 rebirth #ff7 rebirth spoilers

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dutchdread · 9 months ago

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Rebirth Update 10b

The crappiness of the Cait Sith (whom I still don't like in general btw) segment was easily forgotten though by the gold saucer date. I had refrained from listening to Aeriths song prior to the game since I didn't want anything spoiled and wanted the song in context, and now that I've heard it, man is it clearly about Zack. I can't wait to finish the game and watch different variations of certain scenes, because I don't see any way that anyone can look at a game that has this in it and still think Cloud and Tifa aren't the canonical ship. Again Cloud and Tifa are framed together opposed to Aerith, almost never is it that Aerith and Tifa are presented as being mirrorings that Cloud has to choose between. It's always Cloud and Tifa as a single unit being pitted "against" Aerith. Signaling that Aerith is helping them, and they her. Since you can essentially go on a date with everyone, and it all depends on their feelings towards you, we can say that the dates essentially tell us something about Clouds relationship dynamic in regards to the other team members. And Tifas date makes it exceptionally clear that their relationship dynamic is that of a young couple in love, come together again after years and slowly growing closer. My guess is that his date with Aerith will be more spiritual and about healing, but until I see it I can only guess. And I can't wait to see the other ones. Man, I am sure I've forgotten a bunch that I wanted to mention. It comes as I play but with 10 hour sessions a lot of it is lost to time. Will probably slow down a bit now, I've been working towards this part and man I am kinda burnt out with all the side quests and I just got a few new ones.... One thing I can't help wondering about though. How must it feel for a Clerith to play this game? I can't imagine the mental gymnastics needed to not go "...oh damn... I was wrong". I do feel a bit sorry for them though. I remember 20 years ago explaining to people that Tifa was the more valid love interest was such an uphill battle. It required so much analysis and explanation because you were just swimming up stream, going against the grain, all those nice little analogies, it was sooooo exhausting. And then for 20+ years it was just material after material confirming what Clotis had been saying from day one. And the Cleriths just had to keep moving goalposts, keep spinning, slowly driven into a corner to where now we don't just have the deeper analysis to point at, but even just the superficially obvious. As someone who always enjoys arguing for positions that are unpopular because they're not obvious, but are nevertheless true, it's honestly been a joy to watch the public perception change this much. Lets hope part 3 continues the good work, but honestly, it kinda has to, what has happened in part 2 really can't be taken back. Any romance between Aerith and Cloud after this would be....well, problematic and icky would probably be the best words. One more thing, having Cloud say very matter-of-factly "oh yeah, Zack, my friend who is totally head over heels for Aerith was satisfying. I don't see jealousy there, I don't see conflicted feelings there, I don't see a man who is thinking about trying to hit on the girl his friend loves there. Cloud knows about Zack and Aerith, Aerith knows about Cloud and Tifa, they're all helping each other with those issues, not coming between them, it, my friends, is over.

#ffvii rebirth

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oh-my-may · 8 months ago

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I FINISHED CHAPTER 12! (Basically... PS says I have like 7% remaining and that is probably gonna be leaving the Gold Saucer again so... yeah)

I HAVE THOUGHTS BRO.

Zack??? ZACK FAIR??? How dare you be the most beautiful gorgeous cute man ever. His sections always manage to have me tear up. The ending of this game is SO gonna hurt me my god.

My date was with Aerith... which i didn't mind but Cloti for the win you know. Aerith, girl, Zack is somewhere out there!

Didn't bother with any of the new minigames at the Saucer yet, since I wasn't a fan of a lot of them the first time around. Will probably only do it after finishing main story, since some of the exchangeable rewards are very nice.

Loveless was wonderful. Teared up seeing Jessie again. The song was so moving. The party acting as the main cast had me rolling tho. THE WAY YOU COULD CHOOSE BARRET AS YOUR TRUE LOVE? They're so unserious. The little game mechanics were a little confusing tho. I swear I don't have a left-right-weakness but this part had me questioning. Managed to get score A but still... wish there would havd been earlier triggers that told you what button to press... but maybe that's just me.

BUT THE COLOSSEUM HAD ME QUESTIONING EVERYTHING. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BASICALLY 6 ROUNDS OF FIGHTING BACK TO BACK AND THERES ONLY ONE OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE YOUR EQUIPMENT. The first two rounds were easy, when they brought put the Tonberry I was having war flashbacks to the boss fight in Corel. Didn't expect a round 4, but Aerirh and Phoenix came through for me <3

THE TURKS AGAIN THO??? Listen, I'm a proclaimed Turks lover okay. I love them. My pookies. BUT YOU'RE GONNA MAKE ME FIGHT THEM A THIRD TIME NOW?? Elena is always easier to handle, Rude kinda annoying still but we got through it. Wanted to take this opportunity to say how much I love Elena being such a hater. And her having the most bone chilling horror movie scream when you land a hit or pressure her. Queen.

BUT THEN RUFUS??? ALONE AS CLOUD??? I was gnawing at the bars of my enclosure bro. I hate blonde men. Had to restart several times to get his patterns down. Was very upset with my inability tp dodge, usually I play my fights pretty head-on offensive... I was shaking crying throwing up until I had Rufus down to like half his health. Kujata on Cloud really helped me idk. Darkstar was annoying, but got him down eventually after using Clouds Limit TWICE. Almost died when Rufus was only like 3% HP remaining. The way I was shaking when it was finally over... damn. Never wanna do that again but I had already heard that the Rufus fight was pretty annoying...

Cait's betrayal was nothing new to me, I did know about it. Still made me sad ofc. THE WAY YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH HIM AFTERWARDS? I'm heartbroken.

Now it's off to the Temple/The Promised Land. Very curious what the last 2 Chapters are gonna bring. Heard 13 was quite long, but I wanna try and play it all now without any more interruptions... gonna play side quests and minigames later. Maybe I'll even be able to finish this weekend, which would be nice. I'm on vacation next week and won't be home...

So that's that. Enjoy some screenshots I took during this chapter!

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