#charlie corruption arc WHEN

[nicollekidman]

podcast anon again. the second i saw you were getting into hh i got excited because i knew you were going to have good opinions by virtue of being a donnaharvey warrior. lucifer being banned from podcasts for feminist reasons is extremely real, bc what do you mean you spent 7+ years dressing up as p.t. barnum instead of spending time with your daughter. like what do you mean you've never met her significant other. do better. vaggie hates his ass and yet alastor is still down there in that hotel every day in a stunning show of freak/lesbian solidarity. like at this point the men of this show should start in jail and have to work their way out.. too many strikes and its public execution broadcast hunger games style. this obviously excludes alastor and sir pentious <3 s2 can also have a storyline where charlie tries to deprogram lute bc anyone who is best friends with adam has strong self-proclaimed darling-of-the-frat-house vibes.

i don’t even really want to add anything to this you are too funny and dialed in for me to improve on what’s going on here. do you know how rarely that happens… love that my donnaharvey laminated stan card is what gave me the pass here.

jeremy jordan cast as lucifer was a stroke of brilliance because my personal unfounded grudge against him made the deadbeat dad vibes even stronger, like wdym you’re tweaking at alastor helping out the daughter you ignored for years….. drop the piano on him again!!!! alastor barely tolerates anyone in hell besides charlie and an assorted array of freakass ladies and THAT’S activism…… dont let the king of hell (who didn’t even know his daughter was gay) get between you and your business partner you’re probably soul bound to protect in some way and will turn on eventually and her girlfriend who hates you

lute is SO hot she needs to be more involved in s2 i don’t care how…. jessica vosk you will always be famous!!!!!! also i am obsessed with the idea that all the citizens of hell are creating their own hunger games scenarios 24/7 like it is murder and crime and debauchery nonstop and all the rings have different vibes & setups…. and then charlie wanders around singing with her big wet eyes and everyone is like There She Goes Again but they love her and Pause as she goes by (need to see her fully hulked out in demon form PLEASE and bonus points if she fights with alastor beside her bc the bodies would stack up so rapidly and the song would BANG)

[miniagula]

they make me ILL and SICK IN THE HEAD

[teeth-cable]

This is what I mean when I say they did Niffty so dirty because where are any of the dark concepts in these pictures???????????

This is what drives me up a wall. Viv creates interesting characters ideas but for some reason, she never utilizes them and when she does, it’s usually executed poorly.

Niffty was a Japanese (maybe American) housewife in the 1950s. She stalks people, she is hopeless in her romantic life, she has a fixation on men to the point she will randomly starts crushing on them because of it, she represses her dark past which sometimes shows through the cracks of her demeanor, she’s dumb and Alastor is aware of it. The opportunities were endless, but no, she’s just the random creepy funny quirky girl with no explanation, are you kidding me?

I don’t care that Season 2 is the season we will learn about their backstories because they decided speedrun the Heaven corruption arc, when originally the show was supposed to be about the HOTEL and it’s INHABITANTS. The Heaven arc fails in so many aspects, one of them being the stakes. The emotional and in shows stakes only works if the viewers are invested in Charlie’s reaction, but why should we be? The cast gets little to no development, they aren’t trying to actively improve themselves nor do they care about going to Heaven, the sinners like being bad (Even Lucifer is confused why Charlie cares for the sinners), and we don’t even get hints to their human backstories to explain why they’re as messed up as they are, so what pity points/emotional care the audience could have is wasted. Plus Season 1, they technically did have deep and dark concepts and scenes for almost every character so there’s no reason why Niffty couldn’t have one scene that implying something somber.

[aspoonofsugar]

Charlie, The Apple

Apples are a recurring motif in Hazbin Hotel. What's their meaning for the story and Charlie's arc? An analysis on this topic!

APPLE = FREEDOM AND SIN

Apples are associated with the forbidden fruit in pop culture. As a result, they usually represent either:

Free will

Sin

Or both, like in Hazbin Hotel, where:

Lucifer and Lilith use an apple to share free will with humanity

Eve takes the apple and is corrupted by sin

So, this fruit is linked to both ideas, as shown by two characters.

Lucifer wears an apple on his hat, as a symbol of his past dream of freedom for humanity.

Roo (who will probably be a villain later on) wears a broken apple on her hat, as a symbol of the original sin of humanity.

Why are both freedom and sin linked to the biblical apple? Because it is the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

Some believe that by discovering what's good and what's evil, humans can be truly free

Others think that by getting to know evil, humans get corrupted and become sinful

What is Hazbin Hotel's stance on this? The answer lies in "The Story of Hell".

THE STORY OF HELL

"The Story of Hell" has "Good" and "Evil" appear briefly:

Angels that worshiped good and shielded all from evil.

Good is made of light and has blue eyes:

Good appears as a golden woman with blue eyes in Welcome to Heaven.

Evil is made of shadow and has red eyes.

So, Heaven and angels are associated with gold (light) and blue, while Hell and demons with black (shadow) and red. This opposite color coding between Good and Evil is important throughout the Eden myth, as it illustrates the characters' development.

As the story begins, Heaven and Angels are described as a "glowing city" and "beings of pure light". Fittingly, they are white figures:

Lucifer himself is white, here, since he is one of the angels made of light:

Adam and Lilith are instead black, as they are humans made of dust. They are not beings of pure light, but there are some shadows within them:

When Lilith runs away and meets Lucifer, he becomes black, since he is straying from the path of other angels. He is choosing humanity and his love for Lilith over Heaven. As a result, the two lovers offer Eve the apple and Eve goes from simply black to black with a sinister red smile:

From this frame on, red appears more and more throughout the story. Hell is a black and red kingdom, which is described as a "realm of darkness and sin" and a "dark pit". Moreover, red becomes intertwined with Lucifer and Lilith:

As they fall, their eyes and mouths go from white to red. Moreover, Lucifer later loses his white light (heaven) and gains his red fire (hell):

Lilith too appears black and red, but differently from her husband she is thriving in Hell, so her red undertones are more visible:

Finally, there is Charlie, who is introduced as black and red:

Only to become white and red in the final panel of the story:

As if she is going to bring light and good in the darkest parts of Hell.

So, Hazbin Hotel associates Good with light and Evil with shadow. Still, even in "The Story of Hell", it is clear things are more complex than just this. For example, Lucifer and Lilith are shown as sympathetic, while the Elders of Heaven as cold and controlling. Sera is gold and white, but she makes a "heartless decision". Adam is instead black despite his alliance with Heaven. So, things are not "black and white", despite the color coding. Why is that so? It is because Hazbin Hotel links light and shadow not only to good and evil, but also to two Jungian archetypes.

GOOD AND EVIL = LIGHT AND SHADOW

According to Jung, light and shadow are two complementary parts of the self:

The light is what people show to themselves and others. It is what is in plain sight, out in the open. It is usually the way people want to be.

The shadow is what people hide from themselves and others. It is what lies in the darkness, hidden within. It is usually what people don't want to be.

So, light and shadow do often overlap with good and evil, as one usually shows their most positive qualities (light) and does not accept their most negative ones (shadow). However, this is not always the case. For example, one might wear an insufferable mask (light) and be unaware of their potential (shadow). So, sometimes the light can be bad and the shadow can be good.

Hazbin Hotel plays with the dichotomies of good/evil and light/shadow. In this way good and evil become loosely associated with the Jungian light and shadow. Good overlaps with Light, so Heaven is beautiful and it appears perfect, but it is full of secrets and contradictions. Evil overlaps with Shadow, so Hell is chaotic and violent, but it deep down has the potential to be more.

This juxtaposition between moral ideas and Jungian archetypes impacts also the knowledge of good and evil, which becomes that of light and shadow. This means that to understand good and evil one has to accept there is light and shadow within everyone, no matter how wonderful or horrible they are.

This is something Charlie especially needs to do:

She has to accept the light and shadow within herself (microcosm) by coming to terms with her negative emotions, like her repressed anger and sadness. Only in this way, she can show all her potential:

Vaggie: Well, I mean… You're the princess of Hell. Charlie: So? Vaggie: So, you don't really use the power that comes with that, which I love about you, but maybe you can… I don't know, command a little more… Authority? Charlie: But that's so mean…! Vaggie: It's not mean, exactly. It's… uh, aggressive kindness.

She has to accept the light and shadow in others and in the world (macrocosm) by realizing people are not always showing their whole selves. Only in this way, she can truly understand humanity and inspire it:

I can hear all their stories The lost and displaced And I know that they're more of an acquired taste But if I open the door and I give them a place At my Hazbin Hotel It'll be a happy day in Hell!

Charlie's arc is one where she starts ignorant and slowly becomes more knowledgeable about good (light) and evil (shadow). At the same time, she is also bound to bring this newfound knowledge to those around her. As a matter of fact Charlie herself is the second coming of the forbidden fruit.

LUCIFER'S APPLE

Lucifer: I've been dyin' to find out who you are Charlie: I've been waiting, wanting the same thing Lucifer: Looks like the apple doesn't fall far Charlie: Took you a while Lucifer: I've missed that smile

In More Than Anything, Lucifer refers to Charlie as the "apple, which doesn't fall far". In the context of the song, he means Charlie is taking after him, as both father and daughter are dreamers. Still, within the series, this detail gains a deeper meaning. Charlie isn't Lucifer's apple only because she is his daughter, but also because she will realize Lucifer's past dreams:

Charlie: So in the end, it's the view I had of you That showed me dreams can be worth fighting for More than anything, more than anything I need to save my people more than anything

In a sense, Charlie herself is Lucifer's dream, just like the apple of free will used to be:

Lucifer: You didn't know that when I tried this all before My dreams were too hard to defend And in the end, I won't lose it all again Now you're the only thing worth fighting for More than anything, more than anything I'll shelter and adore you more than anything

She is a new dream, which ties with his original one. This is why Charlie's name means "free man": she is a free child, who is gonna free humanity.

All of this ties into Charlie's obvious allusion to Jesus:

Adam: Risking your immortal life for sinners? That's some crazy shit, even for Lucifer's brat! Charlie: These sinners are my family!

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)

Jesus is God's son, who is sent to Earth to redeem humanity

Charlie is the Devil's daughter, who is trying to redeem humanity in Hell

Both are saviors, who are meant to fix the original sin. Both face off against rigid systems and juxtapose to many complicated laws one simple rule:

You're gonna fight without gloves And when that push comes to shove Yeah, you just might rise above Long as you're out for love

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (John 4:7)

Both offer love and acceptance even to the most wretched people, as they strongly believe these people are more than their mistakes:

Sir Pentious: Who could forgive a dirtbag like me? I don't deserve your amnesty Angel Dust and Vaggie: Can't we just kill him? Shoot him and spill his blood? Charlie: That's an… option you could choose Angel Dust and Vaggie: Works for us! Charlie: But, who hasn't been in his shoes? It starts with sorry!

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (John 8:7-11)

So, Charlie is a messianic archetype and a new version of the Eden Apple. This is why apples are strongly associated with her:

The Hazbin Hotel logo has several symbols linked to the main characters:

A spider-web for Angel

Playing Cards for Husk

Gears for Sir Pentious

A needle and a thread for Niffty

Antlers for Alastor

An X for Vaggie

A key for Kee-Kee

What about Charlie herself? She is represented by the apple on top, just like her symbol in the rebuilt Hazbin Hotel is the giant apple on the front door:

So, the series makes it very clear: Charlie herself is the apple, which will save humanity. This means two things thematically:

Charlie is the apple, who will bring an understanding of what is really good and what is really evil (The Fruit of Knowledge)

Charlie is the apple, who will redeem the original sin (The Fruit of Redemption)

So, let's discover what this means for the themes of knowledge and redemption.

IGNORANT APPLE (KNOWLEDGE)

Charlie is the second coming of the Fruit of Knowledge, but she herself is inexperienced and naive.

She lacks knowledge of both the macrocosm (the laws of the universe):

Sera: I'm sure you wish it could be so But, there's a lot that you don't know

And the microcosm (her loved ones):

Adam: Don't you act all high and mighty Did you ever think your little girlfriend might be a liar? Vaggie: Don't, Adam, please! Adam: What's the fuss? Why hide the fact that you're an angel just like us?

How can such an ignorant apple bring wisdom to the world? She does so by asking questions:

Charlie: Well, if you know so much, what do you think it takes to get into Heaven?

After all, the court case Charlie attends is called a "questioning". This is because Charlie is questioning the whole system. She is questioning why it must be so that once souls are in hell they can't go to heaven.

Not only that, but even if the trial is supposedly about redemption:

Sera: We are gathered here today to determine whether or not a soul in Hell can be redeemed into the heavenly realm via means of this "Hazbin Hotel".

It turns out it is really about knowledge:

Charlie: Wait… none of you know what gets someone into Heaven?

Or to better say, it is about how people react to ignorance (lack of knowledge). In particular, two opposite behaviors are shown:

Adam: Uhhh… well, uh… Then, then why isn't he here then? Hm? Emily: Yeah, why isn't he here?

Adam and Emily ask the same question, but they give it different spins.

On the one hand Adam's question is rhetorical. He does not really want to know why Angel is not in Heaven. Rather, he is using Angel being in Hell as proof he is evil and irredeemable.

On the other hand Emily's question is genuine. She is earnestly trying to understand if redemption is possible or not. So, when she sees that Angel exhibits positive qualities, she is confused as for why he is condemned to Hell forever.

And then there is Sera:

Sera: This questioning stops now. We know when a soul arrives, we know when they pass divine judgment, it is our job to ensure these souls are safe.

When important questions are finally being asked, Sera decides it is time to stop. Why? Because she is scared. She fears knowledge because she knows knowledge can break the world:

And change the power balance:

The climax of the song You Didn't Know shows exactly this. Charlie and Emily, a demon and an angel, look down on Sera, the highest authority in the room, and tell her the current system is wrong:

Charlie and Emily: If Hell is forever, then Heaven must be a lie If angels can do whatever, and remain in the sky The rules are shades of gray when you don't do as you say When you make the wretched suffer just to kill them again

For a brief moment Charlie manages to disrupt the order and Sera is terrified. This is why throughout the questioning she favors Adam and Lute, who lack critical thinking:

Adam and Lute: There's no question to be posed He's unholy, case closed Did you forget that "Hell is forever"?

Charlie, Emily, Adam and Lute are all ignorant. However, Charlie and Emily struggle with their ignorance and try to understand things and to acquire knowledge. Adam and Lute instead are content with their ignorance, which means they are easily manipulated. This is why, even if Sera clearly feels sympathy for Charlie and is annoyed by Adam, she still declares the First Man winner of the debate:

Sera: I'm sorry… but this court finds that there is no evidence souls in Hell can be redeemed. Adam: Oh, FUCK, YES!! I WIN!!! SUCK IT BITCHES.

Similarly, even if she clearly loves Emily (or precisely because she loves Emily), she insists the younger seraphim should not question things:

Sera: Please…. if you start to question… you could end up like Lucifer: Fallen.

Sera knows knowledge is dangerous both for the world and for the individual. Lucifer's story is a cautionary tale about this.

And yet, knowledge can also be a catalyst for positive change.

Charlie's idea that souls could be redeemed would result in a WIN WIN for both Heaven and Hell.

At the same time, ignorance can lead to dangerous miscalculations.

The exorcists not considering that their own weapons could kill them is what marks their defeat:

Adam: That's how they can kill us? With our own weapons?! Fucking weak, dude.

The angelic weapons' reveal is particularly interesting because it is very simple once you think about it:

Vaggie: Angelic weapons? It's that simple? How has no one else figured this out?

Both Vaggie and Adam comment on how it is even a little bit lame. After all, angelic weapons can kill usually un-killable demons and even Hell Royalty. Why nobody thought they could work on angels too? According to Carmilla, it is because:

Carmilla: Angelic steel isn't common, and those who have it aren't exactly rushing off to test it against exorcists.

In short, everyone is so stuck in cynicism and apathy, that nobody imagines things could be different and even better, if they just tried.

Nobody, but Charlie. She is the only one, who comes up with a different approach and does not simply accept that "this is just how things are". She has an outside the box idea on how to deal with overpopulation and tests it. She does so, despite everyone telling her it is impossible, dangerous or just plain out stupid. What's the result?

Throughout just six months, Charlie proves the rigid white and black vision imposed by Heaven false. She shows exterminations were useless and unnecessary. She also puts under question the whole way angels and demons have been understanding the universe. In Lucifer's words:

Lucifer: Come on little lady, why the frown? In the last 10,000 years You're the first one to change this town

Ten-thousand years of pain and hopelessness are solved in few months, simply because a girl dared questioning what she was told. So, this is why Charlie is the Fruit of Knowledge. It is not because she knows things, but rather because she pursues knowledge by asking questions.

THE GOOD APPLE (REDEMPTION)

Charlie is the fruit of Lucifer and Lilith's forbidden love, which makes her their second Forbidden Fruit. Their first one broke the world, so Charlie wants to fix it. By doing so she is trying to redeem:

The sinners

Her family

Her own existence

After all, both Hell and Charlie only exist because of Lucifer and Lilith's love. So, Charlie probably feels that she must repair their mistake for her life to be meaningful:

Charlie:I can come into my own And I think I've always known My destiny could never be postponed

In a sense, she wants to prove that her parents' love was right because, even if it broke everything (the Forbidden Apple), it can also fix everything (Charlie herself). Maybe even itself (Lucifer and Lilith's separation).

In short, Charlie is trying to turn a bad apple into a good one. Will she manage?

Adam says she can't because redemption is impossible:

Adam: Sorry, sweetie But there's no defyin' their fates! 'Cause Hell is forever Whether you like it or not Had their chance to behave better Now they boil in the pot 'Cause the rules are black and white There's no use in tryin' to fight it They're burnin' for their lives Until we kill 'em again!

Charlie instead insists she can because everyone can redeem themselves:

Charlie: If I can show them the dream I've dreamed That any soul can change! Vaggie: Those angels' minds are hard to change Charlie: Then they will know everyone can be redeemed From the evil to the strange! Vaggie: They're bloodthirsty and deranged!

Both have a very black and white vision:

(Here Adam references the internet meme Bad apple by the way)

This same vision is ironically shared by all fandoms :'''). Every time there is a villain set up for redemption, here come two opposing sides:

One side argues the character's crimes are too many and too awful to earn them a redemption; every redemption arc the writer can come up with will be trite and hypocritical

The other side argues the character suffered, is sympathetic and so they will definitely get redemption and survive

The problem with this "never-ending battle" is that the two sides can't agree on what redemption is. Does it overlap with forgiveness? Is it something earned? Is it sufficient for the character to change? Everyone has a different idea.

Charlie, Adam and all the other Hazbin Hotel characters are the same. Everyone sees redemption as something different. Here are some examples.

Charlie imagines sin as an illness she can cure with the right therapy:

Charlie: Forever again We'll cure your sin We'll make you well, you'll feel so swell Right here in Hell, at the Happy Hotel!

This is why her Hazbin Hotel is a mix between a school and a therapy group, where the guests are both problematic children and patients. This approach is made very obvious with Angel in particular:

Vaggie: And we've almost been able to find all of Angel Dust's drug stashes… Almost. Charlie: So, once that's out of the way it should be much smoother sailing.

Charlie believes Angel's addiction is his main sin, whereas that's not the case. It is a symptom, not the illness. However, Charlie can only see this problem and insists on curing it as part of Angel's path towards redemption (which works because it helps Angel feel better, so he can work on himself and grow).

2. Adam gives three conditions for a soul to redeem itself:

"Act selfless, don't steal, stick it to the man"

3. Sera and the other angels think a soul is "good" only if it automatically materializes itself into Heaven and becomes an angel after death.

4. Sir Pentious's redemption is a subversion (and potentially a deconstruction, but we'll see) of the redemption equals death trope. This trope happens when a character redeems himself by dying, so that everyone can be saved/the villain is defeated. This sacrifice is usually portrayed as epic and it is pivotal in solving the conflict.

However, Pentious's "death" is different. It starts out as epic and sentimental, but it ends in a joke, as Adam easily kills him. Not only that, but Pentious's sacrifice ultimately fails to have any kind of practical impact on the battle. It accomplishes nothing, but it still gains him a redemption. Why? Because he acted out of selfless love. What matters isn't the result, but rather the intention.

5. Buxter, an upcoming new character wants to explore redemption from a "scientific point of view", so he can prove it is "logically impossible".

So, every character has a different interpretation of what redemption is. This is why an honest discussion about redemption becomes difficult:

Charlie: Thank you, Seraphim. Webster's dictionary defines redemption as— Adam: Objection, lame and unoriginal. Sera: Sustained. No further dictionary references please.

It's important that Sera sustains Adam's objection. Sure, it is favoritism and also a joke. However, there is also something deeper going on. By stopping Charlie from offering a definition of redemption, Sera can easily refute any following reasoning. After all, how can Charlie prove a soul is "redeemed", when there is no agreement on what redemption even is? This is also why later on Sera neither accepts nor dismisses Adam's three conditions for a soul to reach Heaven:

Adam: Uh, yeah. Sure got me here, didn't it? Right, Sera? Sera: He was the first human soul in Heaven…

In this way, she can easily claim there is no evidence souls can be redeemed. Of course, there is no evidence. There is no common ground on what redemption means.

So, what is redemption?

This is the question the show is exploring and its final answer will decide the story's theme. As for now, there is no real definition and Charlie's mark of growth in season one is to aknowledge this:

Charlie: I want you all to know… that getting to know you has been the biggest honor of my life. Whatever redemption really means, I know you all tried. I have seen the good in all of you. And it's…I-I'm just…I love you all, so much.

Charlie does not know what redemption is, but she believes it to be possible. This makes her the savior of humanity. As Lucifer sings:

Lucifer: You can do this, now I know it! For your story has just begun You can't quit now. Hell, you owe it! There's still damage to be undone You've changed my mind, you've touched their hearts Found the good in souls gone bad The stage is wrecked, the crowd is gone But by God, Charlie! The show, it must go on!

Charlie never loses faith in people, even if she fails to understand them or sees them at their worst. This is why she is the Good Apple, which will save humans and redeem the world.

AN APPLE MENDING HEARTS

Charlie is both the Fruit of Knowledge and the Good Apple. She will pursue knowledge and keep her faith in humanity. Still, to succeed she might have to face the embodiment of the Bad Apple, that is Eve:

Overture sets up a foiling between Charlie and Eve. As a matter of fact, the myth of Eden has:

White (light) Charlie holding a heart

Black (shadow) Eve holding an apple

The two women are meant to be juxtaposed and it is probable they will clash, especially if Eve is eventually confirmed to be Roo. After all:

Eve looks a lot like Evil

The name Eve sounds similar to Evil, which may be used as a pun

Eve is apparently corrupted by sin and lets Evil in

Roo is rumored to be the Root of Evil, hence Evil herself

Roo's symbol is a broken apple, so she might be linked to the Eden's myth

Because of this, the two characters will most likely be connected, if not the same person altogether.

In any case, Roo/Eve and Charlie will be interesting to compare. They already are design-wise:

Roo's hair is made of shadow and contrasts Charlie's blond hair, which links her to light. At the same time, the two women look similar. For example, they both share the ability to turn an arm into a big claw:

In short, Charlie (the light/good) will have to fight Roo (the shadow/evil), in order to save the world. Still, would defeat Roo be sufficient to win? Ater all, Charlie might discover she is more similar to Roo than she thinks (hence them symbolically sharing the same demonic claw).

In general, Roo will most likely be there to challenge Charlie face her own inner shadows. Meanwhile it is possible Charlie will have to eventually help Roo somehow.

After all, Charlie is the free child ("free man"), who frees others. Roo is instead chained (she wears chains) and she probably traps others into deals.

Finally, Roo's symbol being a broken apple is interesting because its shape resembles a broken heart. This isn't unique to her. Apples are often associated with hearts in Hazbin Hotel. Let's consider Charlie's two weapons in the final battle of season 1:

Both Charlie's shield and her pitchfork sport apples, which look very similar to hearts. Moreover, Charlie's picture in the Story of Hell is her with a red heart. Last, but not least the key of the Hazbin Hotel has a heart-motif (both in its key and in its kitty form):

The meaning is pretty clear: Charlie is the apple, who will open hearts and mend broken souls. Let's see if she will do so for Roo's, as well.

[sewer-ravioli]

Considering nobody seems to be actively trying to help reach out for q!slime to help him with his corruption I am damn well certain we are gonna get one of the most bitter arc endings we have ever seen and we are all gonna cry (Theory and analysis time)

The only people who understand him is the other code infected and once again Charlie is kind of being ostracized from the whole island as the odd one out now being the only one with an "egg" since he can "never understand because he has his dead egg back" which i absolutely feel could lead to some withholding of information because it seems nobody wants to hear his opinions and by association issues most likely Not only that but barely anybody has tried to reach out to try and convince him, just giving him scared stares when he glitches out or laughs and gawks at it. (which i can see a reason of his character is extremely stubborn and wouldn't budge and give Flippa up that easily) but the fact nobody has actively tried and are just hoping he realizes is really not gonna bode well for the same exact reason they aren't trying. He is going to tear himself down with his faith that what he has with him is his Juanaflippa. He already is with him accepting his fate that whatever he needs to turn into is just what it is he just needs to protect Flippa. My theory is that Charlie is going to fully transform because lack of intervention and the people who care for him on the island are gonna realize they never did ANYTHING and there will be a debate on the island what to do with the fully code monster member of the island while keeping him locked up in order to protect people.

[jemichiart]

Under the protection of the Queen.

Time for a corruption arc? Walking into a trap? I wouldn't know, but I'm excited for all the lore potential that comes with this new update!

Winona finally gets to do something to actively search for her sister.

And Charlie's protection makes her quite op, when she no longer needs to fear the dark or worry about dying. Just carry a rose and you'll be fine. 👀

This is something I drew based on the vibes after testing out my dark side gal in-game.

Charlie & Winona (Don't Starve / Together) © Klei Entertainment www.klei.com/games/dont-starve and klei.com/games/dont-starve-together

[saurongorthaur9]

So something logistical occurred to me that makes the "Galadriel goes dark" theory even more likely, in my view. I realized that come season 3, Sauron is going to be lacking characters to be his main scene partner. Celebrimbor will be gone. Based on footage we've seen, I think Adar is a dead man walking too. And it's too early to go to Numenor to mess with Pharazon. Sauron's to-do list includes anything from distributing the nine rings, making the One Ring, making himself King of Men, and waging war on the elves. I feel like I can see a lack of opportunities for some other character to come in and interact with him one on one heavily during this period besides orcs and/or random new human lords (OCs no doubt)... The creators seem to like the idea of Sauron having a main scene partner also and idk I feel like Galadriel remains the best option and they probably think the same. She could be that without going dark side of course - maybe if he captures her and she's his prisoner for a while. But her being there by *choice* makes for such interesting potential conversations between them as the story evolves, as we we see her potentially struggling with coming back to the light.

That's a very good point. Charlie is a great actor, but he (and Sauron) are definitely at his peak when he's got a scene partner and I think the showrunners know that. I do think the canon focus of S3 will be the creation of the One and the seducing of the Nazgul, which will be great in any scenario, but it would definitely make S3 juicier to somehow put him and Galadriel back together as scene partners.

A reasonable alternative that I could see them going with though is bringing in the Witch King as a main new character next season and focusing on his relationship with Sauron and his rise to Sauron's new second-in-command. I wouldn't be opposed to that at all.

But I also keep thinking, if Galadriel is 100% successful in resisting Sauron's Temptation 2.0 at the end of S2, where does that leave her character development to go for the next three seasons? She will have won back the trust of the elves, she will have successfully resisted Sauron, and she'll be well on her way to being the wiser Galadriel of LOTR without many obstacles left in her way.

On the other hand, if they do go with a corruption arc, I could very well see it going like this:

S2 Finale: Galadriel succumbs to Sauron's temptation and agrees to work with him to some extent.

S3: Galadriel struggles with her corruption arc, seeing how her joining Sauron is corrupting both her and everything she loves. S3 finale: Celeborn returns and plays a critical role in helping her find her way back to the light.

S4: Galadriel struggles with the trauma of anything she might have done or helped Sauron do in S3, and she reconnects with Celeborn and finds peace and hope with him and is able to contrast that to how she felt at Sauron's side.

S5: Galadriel and Celeborn found Lothlorien and Galadriel completes her arc into the wiser but grief-filled elven queen that we know in LOTR.

In my opinion, that would be such a compelling arc. It would also allow Galadriel to continue having a dynamic arc in S4, which is probably going to be the Fall of Numenor, where otherwise she could kind of fade into the background and not have much of a story for that season.

Obviously, this is all just my speculation and I know what a huge risk such a story would be for the showrunners, so I'm really trying with all my might not to get my hopes up. But gosh, if they went there, I would eat up that storyline like dessert.

[gabrielsbubblegumbitch]

Charlie's corruption arc ✨😈

aka Broken Crown AU inspired by this post because I’ve been thinking about it intensively. So, I believe Charlie's villain arc would start with a great feeling of relief. Imagine: it's been a week since the final battle; it's been a week when Charlie hasn't been able to sleep at night. Others think she's still grieving, but the truth is different. Every night, Charlie cannot fall asleep because she's trying to cope with the relief she felt the second Adam died. She was the one who at first stopped Lucifer from finishing him, just because killing Adam didn't seem right. But when Niffty actually did it, despite everything, it felt right. It felt good.

After weeks (months?) of looking for a way to stop Adam from committing genocide against her people, after being bullied and humiliated by him, after witnessing how an unjust system enabled his despicable actions while ruthlessly punishing others for far lesser crimes, she finally, for the first time, felt like she had any agency. Just like that, her loved ones were finally safe. They could all breathe again, and all it took was a small act of violence against the person who fully deserved it. This realization changes her. While she doesn't intend to do such things in the future, she can no longer deny that exercising brutal power can be the best solution when dealing with certain kinds of people. This is the very first thing she hides from Vaggie. Not because she's scared of her judgment but because these ideas are so against her own moral values it is simply scary to put them into words.

Maybe I would be capable of killing someone in cold blood. Maybe I'll have to do it one day.

But Adam's dead, so they are safe, right? And she won't ever have to make a choice like that again. That's some reassurance.

And then, Niffty is killed by Lute. Just like that—Lute teleports to Hell by night and slaughters her in revenge because why wouldn't she? Who would have stopped her?

It obviously hits everyone hard—they just lost another friend. But Alastor? Alastor loses his fucking mind. He goes completely feral, yelling at Charlie and blaming her for everything.

What kind of incompetent fool shows their enemy mercy and lets them live long enough to get vengeance? I cannot believe I thought you could be a competent leader. You are just a fucking child. You are all a bunch of idiots.

Charlie goes through a complete meltdown because she knows he's right. If she had the guts to finish Lute or at least asked Vaggie or Lucifer to do so, Niffty would be alive. She's crying, choking on tears; she feels like a hopeless failure, but Alastor does not give her a break. He seems so infuriated she thinks he would kill her. Fortunately, Lucifer and Vaggie intervene. Lucifer puts Alastor back in his place by essentially beating the shit out of him. Vaggie takes Charlie out to calm her down. She insists that if it's anyone's fault, it's hers because she was the one who spared Lute, but Charlie knows that it's a lie. Vaggie would have killed Lute if not for Charlie's convictions. She fails, and she fails all over again, and it seems like she can't escape the evil. It's her responsibility to face it on equal terms. Otherwise, she won't be able to protect her loved ones.

After this incident, both Lucifer and Vaggie insist on kicking Alastor out of the hotel. He's too dangerous, too unpredictable. We can't allow him to treat you like this. We don't even need him anymore; there's nothing an Overlord can do that the King of Hell can't.

But that's not the truth. There's something Alastor can do that Lucifer can't: play the game. And now, grieving another of her friends, Charlie realizes she needs a teacher if she wants to stop pieces.

I have like 0 time to write the proper fic but I had to get these out of my system because holy shit I love coming up with elaborate plots I'm not able to execute. Maybe talking about it will somehow scratch the itch.

Also tagging @purrpleowl because she expresses her interest in this idea.

[dnpanimationstudioclone]

So in that Show & Tell rewrite, you mentioned your Charlie’s kept in the dark more about the whole Val situation? https://www.tumblr.com/dnpanimationstudioclone/768826658824323072/would-your-angel-have-showed-that-interrogation

So how do u imagine your Charlie come about the truth and how would she react?

I feel like a huge part of the problems people have was just the overall set up & execution(too early, how unaware & unintentionally careless they made Charlie came off, how they resolved things, etc) I was expecting something like Masquerade to be a S2 thing, not fourth ep of S1. I think it’d have been just better to have had Charlie along the rest of the gang be kept in the dark for a lil bit longer for , and when they do find out the full scale of who Val is and what he’s done to Angel, have getting Angel out be part of the main arc plot line, I’m hoping it will be in S2 as Vox will become a main villain!

I imagine for my Charlie it’d be a gradual thing of her continuing to see lil signs and clues that there’s way more going on behind the scenes with Valentino that she eventually pieces together….with some tips here and there perhaps say from a black cat or even one of his fellow Vees. When she finds out….considering she had a sinner friend who she was already unable to save and had to watch them die for her …she would NOT take things lightly, to the point she may even lose herself or would start up her losing herself to…demonic urges 🍏(I def want to do a corruption thing for My rewrite Charlie too but probably for different reasons)

Here’s one scenario of the energy I imagine it’d have, especially if she’s confronting him one on one. Charlie would be Stewie, Val Brian and the money would be Angels contract. Oh and I imagine she’d be wanting to figure out how to free ALL his souls aswel, not just Angel’s. Warning there’s ALOT of violence.

What do u think? How would u want to go about things with this kinda storyline? I’d love to know💖

[inamindfarfaraway]

Stumbled across your post on Carmilla and Cain from one of my favorite artist and just wanted to say that I loved that post incredibly!!

I loved the way you articulated the ability for free will to shatter heavens expectations! It had me thinking about free will in general so thank you for sharing that goodness!

Thank you! This analysis just came to me as a fun little observation, I wasn’t expecting it to gain so much traction. Free will is very thematically important to Hazbin Hotel, isn’t it? Lucifer believed in the good it could do, but accidentally created evil by giving it to humanity and fell for it. Since then he’s seen all the pain free will can cause and become embittered. Charlie, however, believes like he used to and fought for human souls passionately and selflessly enough to bring him back around. The Elder Angels who ordered the Exterminations and the Exorcists who carry them out seem to alternately hate and fear free will’s power, and by their indiscriminate condemnation of sinners as inherently irredeemable, not want to acknowledge it at all.

If the theory that Adam could live on as a sinner in Hell turns out to be true, I’d love to see his character and thoughts on his mortal family and free will explored, because he must have SO much baggage, which could explain (though not excuse) him being The Worst. An interesting detail in the backstory Charlie reads is that he’s never actually stated to eat the forbidden fruit. We see Eve take it, but not him. Maybe the reason that he’s in Heaven, but we never see or hear of Eve or their children in either afterlife, is that in this canon’s version of Genesis, he’s obedient and didn’t commit the original sin, only to be cast out anyway. Regardless of what exactly happens in Eden, he and Eve are forced to fend for themselves in the wilderness. Suddenly they need survival instincts. They can bleed and starve and get sick and loads of animals want to eat them. They have existential dread. Not to mention the marital tension. Why? Because the same angel who stole his first wife messed with his second one! As a result, people can sin. They can hurt each other. This allows Cain to invent murder on his brother. He’s then cursed to wander the Earth, eternally living with his guilt and grief. Oh, and where can dead souls live on now? Where might Abel be trapped forever? Hell, a dimension made of evil, everything bad about the new and degraded human experience taken to the ultimate extreme. You’ll never guess why it exists (Lucifer. It’s Lucifer again). So Adam loses two kids with one stone that was indirectly thrown by one fucking bird guy. Can you imagine how you would feel, having lived that life?

You would have issues. A lot of issues.

No wonder he scorns redemption so much. In his eyes, free will is synonymous with sin - with suffering. But thinking damned souls to be evil incarnate at least lets him take vengeance. It lets him feel the wrathful satisfaction of physically stabbing and hacking his way through representatives of the force that cost him paradise. Broke his family. Killed his child. Maybe he was a genuinely good person when he died. For the most part. Maybe stewing in all that unprocessed trauma while watching the horrors of human history unfold and being venerated and indulged in the perfect afterlife without any of his family changed him for the worse. If you can have a redemption arc in Hell, you can have a corruption arc in Heaven.

After all, Lucifer lost faith in humanity over time. But he has Charlie. Adam’s ‘daughters’ in Heaven are the Exorcists (he calls them “[his] girls” and names them, so he probably creates them), of which I bet Lute was the first. That’s a really twisted dynamic. Like, “From now on, my kids are killing people on MY terms”. Lute having parallels with Charlie makes her being the new main villain even better!

This got out of hand. What I mean to say is, the first human family and how they relate to the theme of free will have huge potential for exploration and development. And if Adam is reborn as a sinner, it would be precisely the Hazbin Hotel blend of heartbreaking and hilarious to have him reunite with Eve, Abel, Seth, etc. in Hell and they’re all like “What. The FUCK?” and his whole horrible personality just collapses in on itself.

[kaledya]

Always a pleasure to see your talent! YEAH I LIKE IT ALL !🌸 _

I like the punishment for Valentino and the fact that Angel is choosing to have revenge. I think, for redemption, Charlie would not tell to her guests to fulfill revenge but if they ask and its deserved (like Val and Angel) I think she would accept without a second thought to punish the abuser/criminal for his victim.

Angel should also learn to move forward as for now, he will be free of Val and once its done, stay ptsd, trauma and mental business but its just you and yourself alone that can pull you through it. I think Angel will be a bit lost after Val death and little by little learn to breathe by himself again.

Exactly ! Use val if necessary of forget him. Perfect ! Thank you to explaining your pov!

I think for the drawing you show, the first drawing on the left where Charlie confront Alastor could be nice after or before the mission Alastor has to do with the gangs.

Alastor : I'm will kill something like 40 Sinners. Charlie : ... What did you just say ? Alastor : 40 deaths. Charlie : what ?! Alastor : This is fine. *meme*

_

Episode 6 will have so much happening ! I prepared well to not forget everything ! _

I KNOW I WANT TO GIVE SPOILERS FOR YOU BUT I CAN'T!

[*take the sacrifice and whispers* I can just say that Lolicia will have so many things happening in the same time that it will be too much and have dark consequences (until Constantine)]

And of course you are a writer too ! Don't doubt it ! If I choose to follow your storyboards  its because it was well made, logical, something worth to work with *crying in goodbye at the last storyboard I finished to follow*

Ahah the "cries on the floor for lolicia" so cute.

_

A little thing about the encounter for Constantine and Lolicia is like... trying to find a metaphor... "Huge hurricane that only one person can transform back into a wind." And harp too.

Like Daemon singing to Vermithor (dragon) in the trailer of House of the Dragon season 2.

_

Oh yes its called slice of life ! I forgot the therm thank you ! _

Shen, my baby.

And yes Constantine and his parent relationship is sad and powerful.

For Shifu and Tai, I'm always for Tai in this but I don't hate Shifu at all of course. Its just that if Shifu known himself better, if he took more importance in Uguei words, it would have never happened. Tai is a warrior of strength and tactics, like the Five Cyclones (and Kai).

And its obvious that Uguei is a warrior of  the spirit/shi will take someone more fated to be like him. Someone chill and less *fighting sounds*.

So if Shifu had opened his spirit, he knew that he created Tai just to fail Uguei test. And he just prepared Tai to be good at one thing. One ? That is not even sure will work ? So no plan B ? Because of the arrogance "I'm sure my son Tai will be Dragon Warrior". And of course Tai, when the 'NO' happened how could he understand ? All my life is plan A and I will never have my A ? What ?

Understandable!

So I that case, I'm Constantine's side. Sorry Luci/Lilith I adore you but damn, you broke your kid.

The wip story arc is very good ! Intense !

_

Honestly, a luxury and quiet ticket plane for the king !

_

So the Lucifer design (corrupted) :

So first his body.

In the different sources, Lucifer is said to be very beautiful, feminine, bat wings, ect ect. So I mixed all that.

So he has big bat wings that sprout from his back, two little red bat wings on his shoulders and two on his halo.

His halo is corrupted, shattered, and I couldn't show it in the drawing but it moves, shattered and comes back together over and over again, trying to fix itself and failing.

He has the golden scars and Morningstar symbol on his body like in your design ! And he also have the same beige goat legs that in your design (but I didn't have enough room on the same page to draw it)

In in torso, he is marking that look like an eaten apple ! If you just look like the contours of the apple, he looks more feminine. If you look like the actual shape of his body more masculine. Its like a illusion !

Hiding his private part, there is a snake face.

He has two manacles on his wrist to show that he is emprisonned in Abaddon's bowel and link to his throne and his fate.

His arms are dark like his neck, and there is one red eye on each of his forearm!

On his right shoulder and left thigh, his skin is shattered, inside its black and corruption pieces of the skin fly from it.

He has his wedding ring of course.

• When in good mood, Luci look more like a demon-like. Smiling, playful, manipulating, not caring. Its what demon are suppose to be. Dangerous tricksters !

• But when he is in bad mood (not his ultimate form) he is more an angel. Angel are inflexible and here is harsh thinking is also led by pride. So a prideful Angel.

His halo change and becomes a broken disc. (Like Abaddon has a disk with angelic writing when he takes his casual form)

The corruption get orders and try to get closer to the 'angel part' of him showing in anger. Like a reminder that his anger/envy/pride lead him to where he is.

His tail (like in your design !) shows up and the  archangels wings (but not three of them). The red little bad wings on his shoulders transforms only in extreme cases.

His clothes are not too difficult, a bit military, with a snake belt and heart symbol for his family. And heart shape opening on the back for the wings !

His hair are blond on top and red underneath! (because most people say he is redhead or blonde)

And he is still a short king.

Thats it ! Tell me what you think ! I will keep this design for AA, but of course if you want to change something or for SSAU, I will hear everything! Hope you like it !

_

For Constantine's hair, I don't know because I like him with hair loose, braids or men bun, ponytail 🌸

Make doodles for yourself with his face and different haircut to choose (like he is in the hair salon!)

Personally, even if I love drawing long hair, I think, loose hair is something more intimate and tied up with accessories or braided, or just tied, its more formal day-to-day life. (Except with short hair) I dont know it it help...

_

Thanks for the explanation of swap AU ! I was just curious !

_

Thats sweet Constantine like Hellhounds babies !

Thank you for liking my writing so much ! I love faithful readers.

Don't worry for the reviews, there is no obligation. AND THANK YOU AGAIN AAAH🌸🌸

_

Ahhah Serenity : the bigger fish...snake. Snake, i mean. Alastor : My dear I beg your pardon ? Serenity : Snake. Alastor : wth

And I'm glad you liked the overlords meeting episode ! It was great to write!

_

Abaddon in terms of age ?

I mean, Abaddon has two ages, as he is both a place and an angel. So when he is the place (the huge version of himself we see a little in the short story when he eat the sinner) is like created in the same time as Eden or something.

But his angel self, the Abaddon we know is born just after Azrael. So I saw in a post you said this :

Michael-11

Uriel-10

Gabriel-7

Raphael-6

Azrael-4

  Abaddon is here- 3,5 !

Jophiel-3

Lucifer-2.5

_

Thank you again ! For everything Take care and have a great day too 🌸🌸🌸

Yes, Charlie definitely think like that , she doesn't interfere, she ask Angel to make the decision.

-And for Angel, I really think you really think well his mental state after that arc, I seriously think you approach things in a realistic way.Angel's years of trauma and ptsd will not disappear immediately, it will heal over time.Seriously can't wait to see how the arc will work

-And yes, that Charlie and Alastor doodle might be the Inspiration how Charlie will react when Alastor destroys the gang.

So, after all, Alastor is an employee of the hotel and The hotel trying to save these sinners and give them a place where they can feel safe.But this small-scale massacre he committed goes against everything Charlie stands for.And since she accepted Alastor to the hotel, the things Alastor does are, in a way, her responsibility.

And lmao Alastor is definitely turning into a This is fine meme

Charlie may be a really kind person, but at the end of the day, she's the devil's daughter.shee also has limits and he shouldn't cross them for his own good. I hope Alastor will take his cards carefully while he's talking to her in future.

--

I'm ready for episode 6 LETS GOOOOO!!

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WHYYYYY ༼⁠;⁠´⁠༎ຶ⁠ ⁠۝ ⁠༎ຶ⁠༽

WHAAAAT???! My question has been answered somewhat, but now I have more questions in my mind??

So Lolicia will experience so many things in a row that there will be so many of them that there will be dark consequences.Until Constantine...

WHAT HAPPENS?!??!???

But let's be honest now, beautiful loves also begin with tragedy uwu (Sorry, the angst lover locked in the cage inside me was let out for a moment)

-

And I'm so glad you liked the storyboards I wrote!! I am very happy that my writing was liked by a writer like you.

*Yes, goodbye story boards you were loved*

--

WHATTTT???YOU MAKE ME MORE EXCITED WITH EVERY SENTENCE!!

İs their first meeting, when Lolica is almost at breaking point due to the all things happened to her,is Constsntine will be the one to lend a hand to her.The person who turns the storm into a wind, the person who turns the flames of hell into A Heat that gives comfort to the peraon??

Or perhaps, in the darkness of the deep that is a light symbolizing the hope of rising to the surface.To breathe again.

I don't know, I'm just so excited to see!!!

Yes, I saw that scene in House of Dragon, it was really effective!!

--

I totally agree with what you say.Tai lung's fall is entirely shifu's fault he was Blinded by his pride And cub Tai just wanting to make his master proud, he made Tai lung believe his lies (these were lies that he even fooled himself with).

If he had listened to Uguie like you said, none of this would have happened. Uguei will never want an heir like Tai lung Tai lung's immense talent can be evaluated in a different way But Shifu ignored it. And Shifu's mistake caused Tai-lung to be imprisoned for over 20 years, unable to even move.

And yes, Shifu only prepared him for one thing, he was so intimidated by the Pride that he didn't even think about what would happen if he rejected Tai lung.

There is no Plan B and as you say, naturally Tai lung's reaction to this was not good.He's been groomed his whole life to be something, and now he's been rejected against all odds.What to do now?, Shifu never prepare him for plan B.And this was the reason why Tai lung threw a tantrum.

And the tragic part is Shifu didn't SAY ANYTHİNG.Nothing...he didn't try to object to Uguei, he dindt tried to console Tai lung He didn't say anything..

I'm sorry, Shifu may be you're a good master, but you were not a good father.

I'm really glad you're on Constantine's side!!

And even if you don't really want Lilith and Lucifer YOU broke your damn kid ,but he's getting better now, thanks to others.

--

First of all, I absolutely LOVE your Corrupted Lucifer Design!🤌🤌🤌🛐✨

Seriously, the details I mentioned are really wonderful, you are very creative🛐🤌🤌🤌

-I really loved the bat wings on his shoulders and the Halo wings at the end are also very cool.And the detail of it having a shattering halo is seriously spot on.And it is very clever that her body looks like an eaten apple and this illusion creates a masculine and feminine effect!!

-Also, the way his halo is constantly breaking apart and constantly coming together is a really great metaphor!

-It's seriously cool that she has menacles on his wrists, a testament to his punishment. And it's nice that his arms and neck are black from corruption!!

-And I think it's a very nice detail that corruption comes out like a disease! break the skin and spread.

And I loved the way you drew Lucifer's hair!!

It's a really nice detail that he still wearing his ring!

-I'm really glad you detailed the good and bad mode! I think you chose very logically.And I loved the balance and distinction between good and bad mood.

-I also really loved the events behind the appearance of Lucifer's Angel part!!

I seriously think you think the way you make his transform is pretty cool, it's scarier.And I really like that you gave him a more military uniform.And seriously, snake belt or a heart/apple symbol Details are amazing

And yes, red hair, probably if I designed Lucifer completely independently, he would have red hair. He is generally described as having red/dark orange hair. That's why making the roots of hishair red is a really clever and beautiful detail.🤌🤌

-I really like your design, I think you did a very creative job.The story details beneath his appearance was one word, it was perfect!!! I seriously love every detail.I seriously can't wait to draw this version of Luci!!🛐🤌🤌

---

And it really helped a lot!❤️❤️ Thank you so much for your advice about Constantine's hair!!

--And yes, one day he met one of them and showed her a little trick. After that, the puppies followed him at every opportunity and asked him to show them new magictricks.

(Puppies don't know anything about hierarchy)

-

Of course I love your writing!! You bless me🛐

-

Thank you for the clarification about Abaddon's age,And it makes sense to him have two different ages.And now that I know that Abaddon is one of the youngest brothers, I can die in peace rn. Lmao

Thank you for your answers and for blessing me with your wonderful Lucifer design. Have a nice day!! 🌸🫂❤️❤️

[creatrixanimi]

as a submas fan who recently got into hazbin I would absolutely love to hear your au thoughts!!!!

Ok ill have to try to write out everything i've got so far!

So the original premise was that ingo and emmet got mixed up and ingo got sent to hell instead of emmet as an oopsie (emmet didnt do anything overly bad in life but heaven/hell stuff is so arbitrary they probably just made a weird decision somewhere down the line lol) but i thinkkk i have switched it to Ingo gets sent to hell because Volo successfully sacrificed him in a ritual and emmet, while dying in the same place, wasnt actually part of it so normal rules still applied to him. Ingo's soul is all messed up and corrupted because of the ritual which caused his amnesia. Emmet finds out about Ingo being sent to hell after he cant find ingo anywhere in heaven and rightfully gets upset at heaven's lack of action because he see's ingo's situation as a huge injustice. So Emmet's whole thing is basically just causing problems until he finds his way to hell and reunites with ingo.

Ingo's situation is where the fun is lol. So he wakes up after spawning in hell and is just a total odd-ball. Half because he doesnt remember ANYTHING from before he died. Maybe not even his name? Which is weird. And also because he's a total sweetheart. No one can figure out why he's even there because it's not like he's a hellborn so he must have done something to end up in hell. After a brief period of wandering around aimlessly, Lady Sneasler, who is an overlord in this au, kinda adopts him and takes him places because she thinks hes so charming and adorable. Melli is just a guy that hangs around lady sneasler even though he acts like he doesnt like her? She's the poison overlord (kinda like an aqua tofana situation for sneasler) and melli is a poison guy. So they kinda just fall into the same group. So they both become friends of Ingo. After a while of character introductions and some brief fun stuff like Sneasler getting Ingo to do all kinds of fun stuff he probably wouldnt do on his own (like the clubbing thing lmao) Ingo has his first blackout, probably triggered by some sort of memory thing, and its kinda terrifying. When he has those blackouts he shifts into his full demon form and his power goes haywire causing a lot of destruction. Its a huge shock because normally regular sinner demons dont really have much in terms of inherent power and also because Ingo cant actually use his powers while conscious so there was no sign of him being capable of that level of chaos. Anyway, after he has his little blackout his body sustains damage from exerting that kind of power and is kinda down for the count for a while afterwards. His story from there on is figuring out what is going on with him and trying to stop those blackouts before it either destroys him or a good chunk of the city, whichever comes first lmao. Sneasler is kinda just there to reign in ingo and melli she just loves a good show lol Melli is kinda where i wanna connect it more to the existing hazbin characters/storyline. Because this is lowkey more of a crossover. He accidentally becomes charlie's new pet project which no one is a fan of 😂 melli did not volunteer for this at all but his character arc is learning to make friends and care about other people after pushing people away for so long because he's a huge ball of self-hatred. He's kinda perfect for the "i can fix him" thing the hotel is all about. SO he's stuck learning to become a better person and being the narrative connection back to the core of the actual show lmao. Not sure if they ever even stay at the hotel. Maybe ingo and melli could flip flop between sneasler's place and the hotel. They dont actually have places of their own so its one or the other. In terms of intra character interactions i think its like this (this is prolly set post-s1 so no sir pentious): Charlie: thinks ingo is nice, wants to fix melli and is working with ingo to do this. Her relationship w sneasler is similar to rosie in my head. Alastor: finds Ingo somewhat threatening because Ingo can read him like a book. would otherwise find him pleasant but because he has a hard time keeping up his mysterious scary image around him he avoids him if possible. Ingo really likes him because "he reminds him of someone but he cant put a finger on it", will teleport away if melli is in the vicinity, finds sneasler charming. would gossip with her 10/10. When emmet shows up they try to kill each other which is entirely unsurprising. Everyone else in the hotel is more or less "theres something not right about that ingo guy but he's nice enough i guess", "FUCK melli get him OUT OF HERE", and "lady sneasler is chill" and when emmet shows up theyre just like "oh this explains why he likes alastor so much. Now theres TWO OF THEM." I would like to develop the other character's opinions on the situation more but this is getting. so so long. misc other character stuff: 

Lady sneasler still has sneasels, usually 3 of them. they just have tiny wings and horns but otherwise look like regular sneasels. No clue what their deal is they just exist. 

Rosie and Sneasler get along great. they are kinda similar but fill different power-niches in hell. 

Rosie finds ingo SO charming. She loves his odd vintage flair despite literally dying like. in the 2020s lol. He's very popular in cannibal town because he's a train freak and edwardians love trains. He takes the cute edwardian cannibal kiddies on train rides.

im not really sure what goes on with emmet in this au i just know he's having a shit time of it and eventually finds ingo. I havent decided if he actually falls or just leaves heaven because it sucks and no one cares enough to stop him. Also only slightly related but i actually have a voice-canon for him which is will wood which works great for this au lmao. Also emmet plays killer jazz piano and alastor is so mad about it because its actually good.

emmet and alastor dont really have all that much in common besides the smile thing but its just enough for them to beef over it. really its a similar feud as alastor and lucifer, alastor sees emmet as a threat both because of his power and the smile thing and emmet doesnt like that ingo is following alastor around like a lost puppy. emmet is def way less mysterious, he's just pissed that his brother is suffering even if ingo doesnt seem to notice his own problems.

volo doesnt really come back up in this au because he's still alive. just imagine that akari is kicking his ass in the living world or something lmao. 

i cant decide if pokemon exist in this universe. It would be funny tho to have chandelure exist in a world where souls are like whole ass people who can die for a second time. worlds nicest guy's pet lamp eats people until theyre perma-dead for breakfast.

Elesa (and probably also drayden and iris depening on your headcanons) are very sad :( i like emmet/elesa so it makes it extra hard on elesa tho. there is no solution for this.

not sure what the arceus situation is here. hazbin as far as i know doesnt have a canon god design so for all we know god could be a dumbass llama i guess. its doesnt really matter besides stylizing volo's ritual

[destielbait]

ELIMINATION ROUNDS:

There will be 6 elimination rounds starting 12:00pm, PST, on Wednesday October 18th. The rounds are as follows:

ROUND ONE:

Dean breaking amara's hold to yell for Cas in 11x18

12x19 wall shove and body scan

“Cas...He seems helpful and dreamy” --Charlie, a lesbian

Deleted scene shirtless Dean pics in fake Cas heaven

14x01 demon to Cas “I thought you two were attached at the…everything”

The handprint (incl. 15x19)

ROUND TWO:

7x21 “the very touch of you corrupts. when Castiel first laid a hand on you he was lost!”

Uriel's “[Cas] has this weakness…he likes you”

The 8x07 Leg Shift

“I’d rather have you, cursed or not”

S11 “it’s not an it, Sam, it’s Cas!”

“This Cas is looking at me funny. Kind of like the real Cas”

ROUND THREE:

Dean’s behavior during the casifer arc

“I’m hunted, I rebelled, and I did it—all of it—for you.”

6x3 “Profound bond”

The empty’s “I know who you love”

Naomi to Dean about Cas post-crypt: Shame he doesn’t feel the same

“Devastatingly handsome”

ROUND FOUR:

Cas’ grace as a spell ingredient in a love ingredient based spell

“The trenchcoated angel who’s in love with you”

the arrow on TV pointing at deancas in 8x23 bar cupid scene

ROUND FIVE:

Dean keeping the Trenchcoat after s7 Cas death

cas looking away from anna kissing dean in 4x11

Lamp. why lamp

ROUND SIX:

When Jack implements the truth spell while Dean and Cas are fighting we get a gay couple fighting and a married couple telling their child that it's not their fault they're divorcing

Point of no return alley scene aka homoerotic beat down

Amara’s “i can see inside your heart. feel the love you feel. except it’s cloaked in shame”

The winner of each of these rounds will progress on to the bracket!

[rey-jake-therapist]

I'm dying at charlie trying to minimize galadriel's importance to sauron by saying that he wanted her as his number #2 not as an equal as if queens weren't exactly this to kings since the inception of royalty I mean, there's a reason Elizabeth II was married to a prince/duke and not a king

Queen and King is not only tittle but also rank and yes contrary to what charlie have also said in the past a queen is the wife of the king That's the very definition of it In fact, when queens have ruled in their own right people were very confused about how to address them Marguereth of Denmark was called lady king while Cristina of Sweeden were referred to with male pronouns/as king in official documents because you see you wouldn't use the title of the wife of a king to adress a reigning monarch

Charlie is a troll (evil laugther) 😈

He is really out him staying that he didn't want her as his equal only as hid wife but not as a wife

It's hysterical funny 😁

HAHAHAH lol exactly what I was thinking the other day !

Actually, making him his secretary/assistant would even be an upgrade comparing to the role that what most king's wives had in history... King's wives were generally expected to give their king a male heir, to be pretty and to not engage in politics. They were also lucky when they actually loved their husband and were loved by him, because their marriage was always planned by other people than themselves 🥴

So there's nothing really extraordinary, let alone a proof of Sauron's *evilness*, in having that sort of plan for Galadriel in his head. He would just be your average misogynistic dude, and he's corrupted af anyway so he could have good intentions in the beginning but would just dismiss any attempt from Galadriel to actually rule 😂

I feel like when Charlie speaks like that, or when he insists that Sauron "can't love" because he's too evil yada yada, it's mostly PR strategy and self protection. I think it's easy to forget that any male actor who plays a villain, especially one as Sauron who won't get a redemption arc, is in a tricky position when it comes to discuss his character's feelings. If Charlie, a white straight man, even suggested that Sauron loves Galadriel, and even if he added that he did love her in a very unhealthy way, "not the way to treat a girl you love in real life guys don't do it" style, he would immediately receive a shit ton of hate from all the antis and other lore-bros who would call him "abuse apologists". You know it would happen.

So he could of course say that Sauron would want Galadriel to be a stay at home mum who also takes care of the paperwork, but it would acknowledge the romantic relationship of the relationship... and I totally understand why he's reluctant to do that.

Now I'd just like him to say the same thing in a joint interview with Morfydd, and hear Miv mock Sauron for even wanting to try to tame Galadriel 😂 Not saying she (Miv) would, but every time I personally think of Sauron trying to "tame" Galadriel and ruling by himself, I also imagine cosmic domestic squabbles.... And even more intense cosmic reconciliation sex 😏😇

[things-arent-what-they-seem66]

So like I love Adam so much and really hope he isn’t shafted in season 2. Everyone wants Lilith so badly to be good and Adam to be bad. The whole Eve is Lilith theory is kind of sucky because it’s literally Disney and we’ve just seen it in resident evil with Mia. I just really want a female villain that is evil because she is, where she doesn’t flip flop at the end and she just doesn’t care. In modern day it’s always the men who are villains and the women are heroes or if a woman is a villain, she flips at the end and is shown as a victim to a man. It’s annoying and so overdone. I want Lilith to just be evil because she is!

The story would be so much more interesting with a fresh twist on it if Lilith is shown to just be a basic evil person with no inner depth, like she really just didn’t care about anything and wanted power all along. From season 1 Adam is shown to be an asshole pig that everyone hates and is believed to be the controlling one in Eden who hurt Lilith. It would be such an amazing twist if it turns out Lilith really was an amazing manipulator, she doesn’t love Lucifer and she doesn’t love Charlie, she just used them to get more power. Like Adam and Lilith generally represents light and darkness, and lucifer corrupted light and gave into darkness, which is the real reason he was thrown into hell. Adam became what he is because of Lilith and Lucifer, who is still an Angel, has to fix it or something. Charlie would have to go through a character arc when she learns she was born from darkness itself. It would be fascinating if sir Pentious was redeemed due to being killed by light itself since Adam used his full power to kill him.

Don’t know if any of that makes sense lol I just really hope Lilith doesn’t come back and everyone forgives her, her excuse or sob story is Eve holding her captive or something stupid like that

I'm all for Lilith being an actual villain buddy. Give me that any day of the week. And yes, evil because she wants to be not because of a sob story.

Yeah Charlie needs a character arc.

Like how you mentioned Adam is the light and Lilith was the darkness, it makes sense really. Wouldn't be surprised if the book of Hell turned out to be bullshit lol

[raguerel]

About q!philza and his alliance

he is someone who actively expressed his hate toward the federation and always been very vocal about it

So would that make him more likely to join the resistance? Well here a thing

even though he trusted q!Etoiles as individual

He also expressed his hated toward the code monsters as well

He doesn’t like both the resistance and the federation side

But if he had no choice but choose no doubt he would more likely to join the resistance hint they have the same goals but it would be more like when c!phil joined on doomsday with c!d/ream.

They wouldn’t have his loyalty they aren’t ‘allies’ but he will work with them to achieve the same goals they have.

Here my tint foiled hat :

I still find it really strange about the ‘hind out’ etoiles find since they have a mixed pick of people they have recorded in but not the people ‘they’ have affected on

Most people on the record are all about islander who have somewhat relation to feds

Even etoiles called it out that it doesn’t have recorded on Philza and BBH

Despite bbh being someone who encountered the code (before etoiles arc) and fight with the most and with Phil being the first person they ‘disguise’ themselves as both of his eggs to try to trick him

And something fishy about how they recruited some people like q!charlie being corrupted with code by juanaflippa who is very likely aren’t his daughter anymore

And he isn’t even aware of the resistance existence

It just something very odd to me that I don’t want to look over

The resistance claimed they hated for the federation HOWEVER they also seems to willing to do anything to get more people on their side as well

Even if it mean taking advantage of grieving parent they will do it

If that the case It just make me feeling very weird toward them

Like yeah they hated the federation for sure but they also will do stuff questionably in the name of their ’justice’

Especially with q!charlie clearly loosing himself unwillingly his and I quote

‘I haven’t been around the code! It just me and flippa here.’

All I am trying to say is that the thought of the resistance going against the federation is nice but I doubt their motive a lots

The only thing that make me kinda want to believe them is because walter bob actually