#character death discussion

[madrigaljail]

In the epilogue to a prophet in his own land, are Julieta and Pepa alive? Neither of the Brunos mentioned them, so I wouldn't think so. But on the other hand they've both spent a lifetime eating healing food just like Bruno, they'd be in pretty good health, and I can't bear the thought of one triplet being left alone...

Oh, dear anon, lemme drop a "read more"; spoilers for the end of A Prophet In His Own Land. But first:

Bruno is indeed the last of the triplets, I don't know the when or how or why of Julieta and Pepa's (and Felix's...and Alma's) deaths because frankly I don't want to think about it too hard.

(Meanwhile I run through various scenarios of Jose's as bedtime stories; something is wrong with me.)

Gus is still around! He gets to see a little but of the 21st century because I think it's funny Captain Accident Prone lives to 100+.

The thing to keep in mind is he is absolutely not alone! They're always with him, in their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Plus there's the element of...he knew it was going to happen, and they had decades of cherishing every moment with each other. Bruno does miss them, terribly, but he's at peace, he's content, he's loved <3

[oathkeeper-of-tarth]

I have to ask for 21, because I'm me

21. do they have an idea about how they’ll die? do you?

Ahahah, I love you being on brand. Never change.

She has in fact died died twice (so far). Once when refusing to give up the location of Strahd's much sought-after vampire hunter nemesis - being a stubborn righteous ass, she got pretty beat up and blood-sucked, then dropped off one of the towers of Castle Ravenloft to her death. She got brought back a few in-game days later thanks to said vampire hunter having a scroll of Raise Dead and being convinced by the party that, if nothing else, a glowy smitey paladin was pretty useful in the fight against a vampire, so it was worth it. Recovering from that is... well, still ongoing.

The second one happened when facing some extremely pissed off Strahd harassment just before the endgame, engaging him in melee and trying to keep his attention away from the rest of her exhausted companions as well as the Martikov family - great allies of the party who were at the moment providing desperately needed sanctuary in their winery (and also I love them). Strahd had a magical fire shield up which meant each attack on him was… costly, to say the least. This one was very brief, as one of the family's three precious magical gems was sacrificed to bring her back almost as soon as Strahd, that absolute bastard, left after a brief gloat and threat or twenty. This was also very costly for the artificer in our party, as the backlash of tinkering with the gem to unleash its magical properties ultimately led to him losing his arm. It was a very, very grim time and a real “darkest before the dawn” moment nearing the end of the whole Barovian misadventure.

I know player character death gets handled wildly differently depending on the table. Some folks love permadeath and going through a dozen characters and just rolling (haha) with whatever the dice decide, while some lean fully into playing in worlds where bringing someone back from the dead is just a couple of diamonds and a brief cleric visit away. I feel like I’ve played in games that fell all throughout the spectrum, but in this particular case we went more narrative focused than probably ever before. In our discussions with the DM about how we'd even handle character death in the campaign we all agreed bringing in new outsider characters would be kind of a pain and would ring pretty hollow, so we agreed we'd use the scarce and often very costly possibilities given in the adventure itself, and, if all else failed, we'd go the Revenant route - i.e. whoever dies can be some brand of Too Angry To Die, swear to do one last thing (probably defeating Strahd and freeing the land in this particular case), and come back as an extremely driven undead version of themselves, a sad kind of semi-existence, that, bittersweetly, is guaranteed to end when the task is accomplished. It never actually came to this, as it happens, though each member of the 3-strong party had a brush with it. But it was certainly a rather grim (and appropriate) possibility.

The Silver Flame, which Ramiel formally belongs to via her knightly order, believes that the souls of the worthy and faithful are supposed to join the flame after death and strengthen it in protecting the world from demons/fiends/all manner of evil - so essentially she expects the fight to never really end. Barovia, however, is a prison for a specific evil lord - which also happens to be a prison for the souls of anyone who dies within it. So not only was that hanging over her, but she experienced a small, brief taste of it (twice!) - the revenant option doesn’t seem so bad anymore, suddenly.

All of this is to say, the possibilities were and are many and varied, but I am absolutely certain this is not a person who is going to die peacefully in her sleep at a venerable age, and so is she.

[balleater]

i've already made posts about this so many times but every time the raven queen's ascension gets brought up and its talked about like she did it for immortality or purely for power it makes me go a little insane because the story of her being a follower of the god of death before her and taking his place specifically because he didn't respect death is one of the best things about her lore in my opinion. that one of the biggest differences between her and those who failed attempts at ascension is that she did because of faith and not to spite it.

[valtsv]

VAL twitch streamer au, courtesy of myself, @mx-information , @hungoverinjonestowm , @pinkelotjeart and @cyberneticflora

[alleyesony0u]

alright alright tabi being the cattle dog that nudges the little calf along on its path. whether the cattle dog knows it's leading the calf or not to its inevitable doom, it does not care. it is doing what it was meant to do and this little calf is its tool, or its friend, or its enemy. or maybe it is just a little calf. nonetheless, it is a cattle dog, and this cattle dog must do what must be done to get fed and watered and to live and be more than just a stray on the street. or a dog with a rifle pointed at its head.

this cattle dog does its job so it can curl up comfortably in the dog bed and not be chained up outside in the rain. this cattle dog does what it must to feel love and care, sweet words and gentleness, and not harsh insults, yelling, and a swipe. or was it a slice? or a stab?

well, all living things crave comfort. all living things need it. what is so different about this cattle dog? is it the way it does it? is it the way it herds the calf along, clueless? why is it so different from the man who works and works and works to live comfortably? why, this is simply how this cattle dog works. and who punishes hard work?

tabi is the cattle dog. she works to eat, to drink, to sleep, to live and not just survive. she lived before, she wants to live again. and so she does her job and she herds.

[feldsparred-mo-reblogs]

No nuance november: If your main headcanon for Gabbro is that they are "a stoner" because "they are so chill" I actually don't want to hear anything else you are saying because I am already bored

[13eyond13]

I feel like some of the "Light is NOT socially adept" discourse rn is based on the fact that people just personally don't like him because of what he does secretly in canon, or don't find him as charming as he's supposed to appear to others in canon. I fall more into the category of people defending him as the opposite though, and that's mostly because I think the point of the story is to show how a guy who has everything going for him and doesn't actually have a tragic backstory or a lot of deep dark antisocial tendencies or problems could actually also wind up being one of the worst people you've ever met if he ended up with something like a Death Note in his hands at age 17. Right? Not necessarily because I think everything Light does is excessively polite or incredibly suave, but because I think he'd easily trick me with his regular politeness and good looks and achievements / the usual facade he puts up around others. One of the strongest things about this series to me is the lack of troubling backstory for Light. I think the story wouldn't really make a lot of sense or be as good if he was mr. socially oblivious and delusionally vain who can't actually make friends or impress anybody or fit in.

[dxxtruction]

Louis' "You're boring!" Could mean so many things, but I think what's most apparent about that line is that Armand takes no initiative just for himself. He's not really anybody, because he never goes out and finds himself or gets attached to anyone but Louis. Without Louis as his guide he's literally just sitting on a couch picking lint! That's the thing.

He orbits constantly around what would make Louis happy, and never really fully going what would make me happy? Ultimately that drive to please Louis is what drives him to torturing Daniel, not so much that he'd care to just do it. Ultimately, not giving proper care to Louis is just a way to make sure Louis knows he has to orbit around him as well, with shoving Lestat onto him just that other nail on the coffin. So, even if he fails to figure out how to make Louis happy with him, he still knows what Armand is good for, and better than.

That dependency is what drives Armand's abuse. It really just comes down to that. Armand doesn't even realize how suffocated he is by his own dependency. This is just how life is to him. (It shouldn't be lost either that dependency is a theme considering this episode also deals with addiction).

Daniel's fascinating because he's just so driven to be somebody. He's largely independent, he seeks things because he wants them. It's his drug to poke and prod at all the things that he shouldn't. Daniel's exciting because he lets Louis in to something different, lets him in to all this potential in another person that he can also do the same with for himself. It's a real connection. A two way street. It's easy to tell how Armand can be smothering then because he's never introducing him to anything really new, and most the ways both of them connect are all painful and traumatic. It's never just fun because there's always that layer of that pain. Fun died with Claudia.

50 years on they've gotten to a lot better place, both of them, but it's still that same shit. No seriously, "How is this any different from last time, Louis?"

Well... Because Armand's going to be, at the very least, making one [1] decision only for himself - and that's to hold power over Daniel's life. Fucking sick foreshadowing.

They aren't driving each other to the brink anymore but "The vampire is bored" STILL. Maybe it's even worse, despite being in better places, because Louis' sort of just been defeated by it. (I mean, can he even really leave this either?). He's accepting the dependancy cause he kind of has to. He'd literally ended up letting all the enjoyment be up where he can't reach [The book shelves]. Armand so desperately wants Louis happiness but what really ends up happening is that Louis ends up having to give Armand all his own. He's got no one or anything else to get it from. But like an iPad and an over the top eating ritual. Two extremes of what's just more lint picking.

This whole relationship is one I find just tragic inside and out. You have to just pity it, really. There's ways in which you can find yourself feeling bad for both of them. But you can only really be mad at Armand for any of it. Armand, who isn't even 'free' in any sense, having so little concept of his own independence, but is at the same time so controlling over other's. It's a tragic cycle. It's an infuriating one.

Louis at least has the mind to know when enough is enough. If just needing that extra push to get there. Armand's too scared of it being over to even try.

[srslylini]

If I said the scene with Jinx hallucinating Silco in Stillwater is so beautifully done that it being in season 2 ruins it?

Here is a run down of this scenes dialogue

In itself it is just a dialogue but what I find very noticeable is that Jinx does not in fact actually talk with Silco, she talks to him and then gets talked to. Their conversation doesn't flow because Jinx doesn't engange in basically anything Silco says (run with me here I know it is Jinx hallucinating Silco). She tells him to "go away, you're too late" and when Silco starts talking about imprisonment and how "it says something about Marcus that he thought putting Vi here is a greater mercy than killing her" Jinx doesn't react to that. Her only reaction is "killing isn't mercy" but that's not necessarily what Silco was talking about. If you want you could say they are talking in circles.

Even when Silco talks about killing being a cycle and that there is still rebellion "in that husk", she really doesn't react very much to what he is saying. She closes herself off to any sort of conversation. Mostly she only reacts to the last words presented to her. "I'm done running in circles".

This is her completely ignoring the part of herself that still wants to rebell, by the way.

Now the next part, I feel what they were trying to do is draw a parallel to Heimerdingers line in season 1 of how imprisonment is a curious concept since you imprison the body but not the mind. Here Silco kind of contradicts that though, what he is saying is that the mind is a forged prison one needs to escape out of. That is one of the only parallels I can get behind this season. If it was intentionally done at all.

What I find very uneasy about this next part of the scene is that, while the dialogue we found ourselves in was never really a dialogue, it just turned into a complete monologue. It is Jinx completely detached from herself and in the form of Silco telling herself the only way to free herself is to die. There is no beating around the bush here.

Now lets discuss the visuals of this scene

What I find just as important here is the visuals. Season 2 made the mistake to lean too much onto "micro expressions" for most of its scenes but here I find what they did to be quite stunning.

The scene starts out with the Gemstone rolling through the dark. It is a quite chilling opening since we know what this stone is capable of doing. I feel this very much reminds us of its importance and what has happened with it. And then it hits Jinx.

Jinx who, at this point, has been haunted by the Gemstone for what is basically all her life. And it still continues to haunt her. What I find to be just as well done is that we as an audience are never sure if the Gemstone is actually there. It wouldn't make sense to be there, since she is in prison and I do not think they'd just let her in there with that gemstone, but also? By doing this the audience feels about as haunted by the stone as Jinx does. Who in that moment hurts herself, which manifests in picking skin off of her fingers.

She sits in shadows and Silco also comes from those shadows. That's how the conversation starts. They then continue to only show her eye. The shimmer induced eye. That is in stark contrast to what we then, what almost feels like a jumpscare, get to see with Silco. Suddenly his eye is the Gemstone. The two forces of two cities.

What I also find very interesting is that the audience gets to see Silco's new eye addition when he talks about Jinx still having a spark of rebellion. Well how did the Gemstone first come into play?

Jinx was rebelling against her sisters wishes to "stay behind". And that's when the fateful explosion happened and Jinx lost her entire family. Just as in the finale of season 1. Everytime we see Jinx rebell in season 1 it ends with the death of people she loves. I find it just as interesting that all of this comes after Jinx says "it's too late". She only sees her failures infront of her. All of her acts of rebellion, in her mind, caused the misery that now sits infront of her.

Just as Silco says "Killing is a cycle" we get a close up of his new eye. Now that might be a reach but I like how the Gemstone in itself is basically a "cycle". Also the fact that it is now Silco's eye. The sentence "the eye is the window to a persons soul" is very fitting here, I think. Just that Silco isn't actually Silco. He is the manifestation of Jinx' current state. So he is a manifestation of what she sees as her failures.

And is what happened with the Gemstones not what she sees as her biggest one? She lost all her families over that. And then she lost Isha to it as well. During this part of the scene we see Jinx picking her skin again, as if in an act to ground herself. As Silco says the act of "this cycle of killing will continue long after the two of you" he starts to become less of the focus. The blue of the Gemstone in his eye is suddenly almost all we see.

And then it's in Jinx' hand. I think this shows how Jinx thinks she holds that cycle in her hands now. Which also translates into how she wants to break it, by the way. "I'm done running in circles" as she plays with said figurative circle.

The Gemstone in this part of the scene is what Jinx sees as her prison. All her failures, all her pain. Silco talks over this scene in her monologue (as I talked about in my point before the visuals). All her life Jinx saw herself as nothing more than part of this circle. Then Silco says he thought he could break free by eliminating who he thought his jailors were. I do not like what they did here. At all. But this will come later.

In this scene we only see his new Gemstone eye, as he talks about his jailors. The gemstone comes from Piltover, all his life Silco wanted to break free from Piltover, so there is that. I will come to this later, as I said. Then he says the cycle only ends when you find the will to walk away and suddenly we do not see the Gemstone eye anymore.

More on this later. What I see in the next scene is maybe a little hard to get and potentially wrong. We hear Jinx swallow, right? And swallowing is the act of putting what's in your mouth to your stomach. So when she tries to spit out the Gemstone it can't actually land in her hand again. In my head, and please this is literally very much a far reach cause I myself haven't yet figured this part out completely, it's almost like she lost it again, the thread she held in her hand before.

That, for me, is the part where she understood what the Silco in her head was trying to tell her. A convoluted "you have to die". That's why, when Vi comes, we see her even more detached than before.

Why don't I like this scene in the context of season 2 then?

The hauntingly good of this scene is how factually wrong it is.

Or that it should be wrong. And that's why it is bad. The scene portrays this picture of a completely in shambles Jinx who, in a very twisted way, tries telling herself the only way to betterment is death. And in the end that should have been avoided. What the writers did, how ever, was make this scene be correct.

Well the only way out was death and getting away, right? It shouldn't have been. What should have happened is that the scene gets turned on its head and Jinx gets to the understanding that it is wrong, that she is deserving and allowed to stay. In context of a season 1 this scene was very fitting but in the season 2 we got, that excused classism, war crimes and killed its 3 suicidal characters this scene was terrible.

That leads me to my point with Silco telling us he understood the only way was breaking the cycle and not eliminating his jailors. In what they gave us with season 2 this is... definetly something. What they gave us with that is that Jinx apparently now "understands that Piltover isn't the problem but she is". That makes Jinx having to apologize to Caitlyn even worse. What Silco said in this moment is basically this "He now understands that breaking free of the people oppressing them (his jailors) didn't free him but understanding that he is part of the cycle and needs to end it is freeing" and with that in context of Jinx' mind this says

"I now understand Piltover isn't the problem. I am."

This wouldn't even be THAT bad had they portrayed this scene how it should have been shown.

As wrong.

Conclusion

This is basically why in itself this scene is beautifully done and everything that season 1 did great and why I in fact hate that it exists in season 2. It is such a disservice to have such a stunningly made scene in a season that endorsed all that it shouldn't.

I also do not understand them basically showing the two cities conflict with the shimmer induced Jinx and the Gemstone in Silco's eye and then just doing nothing with that. Like you had it right there. All of it. There it was and then you just failed to do anything with it, ignored it and then by doing so hurt your own series themes. Which is why I hate what Silco said with breaking the cycle and freeing yourself even more. Like how wrong can you even be? How can you show how wrong this is and then paint it as correct?

[arttsuka]

Some thoughts about the mouthwashing fandom and some character analysis(?) under the cut.

While the game is clearly meant for older audiences (14+ at least, from my understanding, although I couldn't find an official age rating), the fandom is flooded by kids and teens too young to even play the game or understand the characters and actions they take.

The game deals with some very upsetting themes. From murder and suicide to self harm and sexual assault (some more prominent than others). While it's totally fine if someone feels uncomfortable with any of these themes, that doesn't erase them from the game and shouldn't discourage people from showing them in the fandom. If it's truly that upsetting to someone I would recommend they go into some other fandom (at least where the source material is not as triggering to them). We are here to have a good time, not a stressful one.

The fandom is this twisted 'happy/nothing bad happens' and everyone is turning a blind eye to how disturbing and disgusting the game was.

Don't get me started on the treatment Jimmy goes through. Yes, he is a terrible person for what he does in game but 1: he was clearly mentally unwell* (I'll add to that later), especially after a point and 2: 'fandom Jimmy' literally did nothing wrong (unlike cannon Jimmy), his depictions in the fandom is him being brutally murdered or just existing.

*It's not only implied in game that he's mentally unwell, we literally see him descent into madness by the end. From the beginning (him refusing to cooperate for the phyc evaluations), to the breakdown he was having after he navigated the ship to crash into a meteorite, to him having hallucinations (the graveyard, the cake scene with everyone gathered etc).

Also Curly, damn. I get it that he enabled Jimmy's actions to a degree but are we forgetting Swansea also stood there and did nothing? He said Anya was telling him 'all sorts of things' (implying the SA from Jimmy) yet he still did literally nothing, not even attempt to talk to him. Curlys worst sin was him being a realistic and complex character. Having a personal crisis about his own future and fulfilment in life, trying to navigate the whole 'pony express is closing' with an unhappy crew, having to help Anya who was having basically a breakdown and was on a high risk of hurting herself with the gun, having to confront Jimmy about the whole affair (it was implied that he didn't know from the beginning that the pregnancy was not only unwanted but also forced), trying to help an old friend. It all piles up. He could have handled things better, sure, but to pretend he is equally as bad as Jimmy is just wrong and shows the lack of judgment, understanding and overall empathy of realistic characters and situations.

Neither Curly nor Swansea did anything drastic because there was nothing they could do. Curly was trying to help everyone in his way, too blinded by their friendship to acknowledge or predict what Jimmy was capable of before it was too late.

Personally I think mouthwashing is an excellent game, definitely one of the best I've ever played. The story, the way the events take place, the characters, the imagery, the music. The way it successfully builds up the uneasy atmosphere without any jumpscares, embracing the 'psychological horror' element to it's fullest. Truly a great game, I just wish the fandom was a little more 'mature' (mentally wise).

[polling-sonic-fans]

Polling Sonic Fans for their opinions on all manner of things. Share good questions to indicate what you want asked. Submissions open.

[imperial-nuisance-rudje]

I think my most toxic trait as a Zenos enjoyer is wanting to 1v1 everyone who says that Zenos actively wants to kill his opponents

Like, completely disregarding that it is actively ignoring the text even in StB there (and that he consistently wants the WoL especially to live), he, uh, is written as having a desire for more the opposite to happen. Very, very consistently. His drive to live is solely linked to brief moments of pleasure-from-struggle and when that drops he explicitly wants to die so he can preserve the moment (and like. *looks at the end of 6.0* if he wanted to kill the WoL he would not be disappointed when they fall before the game allows it, nor would they have lived after given his will was strong enough to bring them back if they bite it). He wants struggle and lacks the ability to give enough of a shit to hold back if someone walks up and says they're going to go for his head.

Like, death is a side effect of what he's after, it's not the goal and he explicitly considers it a waste of life. Even fighting isn't the goal, the goal is to struggle, to need to put effort in. The WoL is just the only person to put him in that state as he currently is, hence his obsession.

[utilitycaster]

This is coming up with Orym, and it came up with Yasha and to an extent Keyleth too (as well as many other characters; see tags). Anyway: there is never going to be a moment when those characters are not grieving. If you wait for them to stop grieving, you will wait until they themselves die - and to be clear I do not mean this in the sense of “the grieving spouse clearly seeks death so that they may be reunited”; I mean “that loss will always exist in their lives, and they will grow around it and find other joy and love, but there is no moment when the hole that person left closes and is gone.” You can interpret where those characters are in their grieving process, which is a complex and nonlinear one, and you may perhaps feel they’re not ready, but if you do, it’s worth asking yourself what “ready” would look like because it will not look like an absence of grief. More specifically to Orym, if you are rethinking this because there was a scene at Will’s grave, that’s a big part of the nonlinear aspect - how someone will speak about the death graveside, or how they may speak about it in specific places, or on anniversaries, is very different to their day-to-day experience with grief.

Which isn’t to say you can’t interpret Orym as still in, for lack of a better term, the full mourning period; I’m noting it both because it is a pattern in the fandom for characters who have lost spouses, and because within that pattern, the discussion seems to treat life after the death of a partner as a dichotomy of “grieving” and “not grieving”, in which romantic love is only possible when one is in the "not grieving" state, which is fundamentally untrue to life.

[vhvrs]

...................................so. fusionfall 2008.

[jasondeansgothwife]

people who act like “woobifying” a character is some unforgivable sin are sooo boring and judgy. like what if i do sympathize with a fictional anime boy and portray him as a little misunderstood emo boy and headcanon him as having my same mental illnesses and having done nothing wrong that can’t be forgiven. who is that hurting??

[metanarrates]

its interesting to me that the common sentiment appears to be that han sooyoung intended for jang hayoung to be trans. I think there's room for multiple interpretations, but I view being trans in orv as being inherently tied to the themes of self-actualization, as well as the idea that a narrative is unable to be fully defined by either author or reader. put more simply, jang hayoung is trans regardless of either kim dokja OR han sooyoung's intentions in creating her, or in how they each interpreted her. maybe the version of her in the novel was meant to be something else, but in the reality of this world, she is a trans girl. han sooyoung's intentions kind of don't matter there because the text has moved beyond its author