#cas is brought back
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drulalovescas Ā· 4 months ago
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I love the image of Chuck sitting there, absolutely vexed, in front of a ton of television screens, like a depressed security guard. He's just killed Cas off, again, like he's playing a game of sims. "Third time's the charm" he thinks, fingers crossed he stares at the screens, hoping this time it'll stick.
Sam seems to be doing pretty well, playing his part, good. He's trying to get Dean back in fighting shape with strippers and beer for breakfast. Good job, Sam.
Jack is making pencils levitate, that's fun. He ran around naked for a bit too, keeping the boys on their toes. All going to plan.
And, better just check in on... No, oh no no no. Not again, please not agai-. Brilliant, Dean's killed himself.
10/10 no notes.
But there is something absolutely insane in the notion that Chuck kept bringing Cas back over and over and over again not because Cas was his favourite angel. Oh no, Chuck despised Cas, hated his guts. BUT. He kept bringing him back because withouth Cas Dean kept wanting to die or kept killing himself and basically refused to follow Chuck's script.
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acuar-io Ā· 3 months ago
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Brought someone back from the dead <3
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willowsimisme Ā· 5 months ago
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ā™« I get money, I'm a star Star, star, star, star, star, star ā™«
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ananke-xiii Ā· 2 months ago
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Maybe they titled it ā€œTombstoneā€ because thatā€™s when s13 stopped making sense.
Or: how the ā€œJack made Cas see Paradiseā€ beat was dumped on Kelly and how Jack is very much like Fleabag because ā€œNo oneā€™s asked me a question in 45 minutesā€.
I wish I could share in the general excitement surrounding this episode but, to me, its ā€œfeel-goodā€ energy is too much of a foreboding for the rest to come that Iā€™m like, nooooo, I canā€™t take iiiiiittt. After this episode the season completely derails: Castielā€™s character doesnā€™t make sense anymore, Sam and Dean go back and forth in a plot thatā€™s a joke and Jackā€¦ whereā€™s Jack? Do we still have a character named Jack? Ah, yes, here he is, maybe I see him.
In the second scene of the episode we have on one side of the room Jack and Dean, the two characters who are very much emotional because of Casā€™ return.
Jack is super tender when he approaches Cas and tells him that he missed him. Heā€™s also super zealous to show his father that heā€™s been learning to master his powers (he can move a pencil!) and that he has gathered enough knowledge about the family business to find a case, a hunterā€™s case. His purpose in this episode is to demonstrate to his father that he fits in, that heā€™s good.Ā 
Deanā€™s also in high spirits and itā€™s because of Casā€™ return as well but the reason is, of course, different. Clearly, he doesnā€™t have anything to prove to him but heā€™s euphoric about his ā€œwinā€. He was literally dead not even 24h prior when he was desperate for an anchor that would reconnect him with meaning and reality. Well, not any anchor. He specifically needed Castiel because, unlike with his mother, Dean didnā€™t get to have any reconciliation with Cas in s12.
CASTIEL: I don't... What are you doing here? DEAN: Saving your ass. SAM: You and Kelly just taking off was a stupid move. But there's no way we're letting Lucifer get his hands on that kid. It ain't happening. DEAN: Look, Sam's right, okay? We'll work through our crap. We always do. But right now, we are here to get you, get Kelly, and get gone.
Narratorā€™s voice: theyā€™ll never work through their ā€œcrapā€. Sigh.
On the other side of the room we have Castiel, whoā€™s fresh off the Empty and looks like he could use a day or two of rest, and Sam, whoā€™s mentally trying to figure out if it was Jack who resurrected Castiel and how he can apply this knowledge to saving Mary. Both Cas and Sam are the ones who are, if not downright contrary, not particularly over the moon by the prospect of working a case.
The tragedy is that both Jack and Dean are so happy about it that it almost feels like they can all forget about the fact that they had to burn Cas but now he's here, that Dean had thoughtlessly run towards death 2 seconds before and that Jack very much doesnā€™t know yet how to control his powers. In other words, this scene forecasts disaster.
This episode also marks Casā€™ first attempt at parenting Jack and it goes both well and disastrously bad for him. Now, parenting is a fucking hard job consisting of infinite responsibilities, one of which is saying no and setting boundaries. This is how Cas starts parenting Jack.
The good news for Cas is that he seems to instinctively predict Jackā€™s actions, thus knowing when itā€™s time to say ā€œnoā€. The slightly bad news is that Jack doesnā€™t listen to him. And, I mean, this totally makes sense because 1. Jackā€™s all happy and energized about ā€œhisā€ case; 2. heā€™s very eager to show off what he has learnt; 3. this is his first chance with his father, itā€™s like a clean slate for him and he really wants to pass the exam with a ā€œgoodā€ stamped on his forehead.
Three times Cas tells Jack ā€œNoā€ and three times Jack disobeys.
The first time is when Jack wants to wake up Dean to tell him about the police update and Cas tells him that he ā€œwouldnā€™t do thatā€. Jack, however, would very much want to and so he finds himself face to face with Deanā€™s gun. Things will get very bad.
The second time Cas tells Jack ā€œNoā€ is when theyā€™re outside the bank and Cas tells Jack to stay where he is but Jack tells him that heā€™s ā€œgot thisā€. Which he doesnā€™t because he accidentally kills the security guard.
The third and final time that Cas tells Jack ā€œNoā€ is before he disappears from the bunker. He does it anyway.
Now this might sound strange but, so far, Cas hasnā€™t done that bad. This is the super-secret that SPN doesnā€™t want you to know but disobeying the father is actually not that big of a deal, rather itā€™s quite healthy and it also makes sense for Jack because heā€™s known his chosen father for maybe less than two days. Their relationship has just started and they need to find their own balance. Whatā€™s more important here is the fact that Cas can foresee and understand Jackā€™s actions, which is a victory for everybody because so far in the season heā€™s the only one whoā€™s been able to do that.
What he totally fails at is, unfortunately, trying to understand who Jack is. Sam, Dean and Cas have their own (different) opinion about who Jack is and they all hold tight to their beliefs. One thing that always struck me is that nobody asks Jack any question. For me this means that nobody is trying to understand him, they're not curious enough to want to get to know someone like Jack.
Jack is good or evil or special and that's it. And "that's it" because Sam, Dean and Cas see him that way but there isnā€™t much communication going on in that damn bunker. For instance, when Cas comes back he tells Jack that Sam and Dean have told him that heā€™s doing well. I donā€™t want to say itā€™s a lie but itā€™s a lie. Nobody is doing well since May 18th. Jack agrees but promptly changes the subject by showing him the pencil trick. This is deflection 101.
One thing that Sam and Cas have in common, though, is that their idea of Jack is strictly dependent on what they think about Kelly and I canā€™t help but grimace because of it.
Sam, for completely unknown reasons, thinks Kelly was a ā€œgoodā€ person, therefore Jack must have a good, perhaps ā€œstrongerā€ side in him that can win over Luciferā€™s evilness. Leaving aside for a moment that this a backward, problematic view of maternity, Sam canā€™t possibly know if Kelly was a good person or not because the two maybe talked to each other one or two times and both times werenā€™t particularly meaningful moments for either of them. Not saying Kelly wasnā€™t a good person, just underlining that Samā€™s beliefs about Jack are based on his own assumptions bearing zero evidence of reality and founded on outdated notions about maternity.
Cas, on the other hand, thinks Kelly believed that Jack would change the world for the better and so he does too. The thing is, though, if we look back at s12 itā€™s not Kelly who thought that her son would change the world, itā€™s Castiel. Kelly thought that she was part of a plan, that she and Cas were destined for something great. She wasnā€™t the one who had the vision of the future, Castiel had. We have to consider two things here: what Kelly meant by ā€œsomething greatā€ and Casā€™ utopic vision that we donā€™t see.
Iā€™ve said it many times and Iā€™ll say it again: not even one writer was interested in giving Kelly a little bit of backstory so that we could have an insight on how she is as, you know, a Real Character. As far as motherhood (the sole defining trait of her character) is concerned, we know she wanted to do the ā€œbaby thingā€ with the President and that she had always dreamt about being a mother.
What we do know for sure, however, is that she was a pregnant woman who: was sexually assaulted, abducted, forced to suddenly understand and comply with the supernatural worldā€™s dynamics, abducted again, chained, had committed suicide, had been resurrected, was abducted again, was intimidated by two strangers to get into their car to go to an underground bunker so that they could perform whatever the hell Sam planned to do on her. So, I ask, maybe, just maybe, is it possible to view her behavior and her words in ā€œThe Futureā€ as those of someone who probably had all the rights to be on the verge of a mental breakdown? They couldā€™ve framed her ā€œfanaticismā€ re: Jack's birth as, perhaps, a way to cope with the living hell she was subjected to during her pregnancy. To give meaning to what was happening to her. Regardless of the framing, the show makes a point to tell us that she first and then Cas, Kelly thought, were the ones destined for something great. The writers compared her to Rosemary (from the movie/book "Rosemary's Baby"), like, three times. I hoped that it was a way to signal the abuse she had to endure but I don't think it's the case, sadly.
This is a part of Kelly and Casā€™ dialogue in ā€œThe Futureā€ that I particularly hate:
Kelly: Maybe. Or maybe it was a miracle. Maybe ā€“ maybe everything that I've been through, everything that I still have to go through, is happening for a reason. Maybe it's part of some plan. Castiel: No, it isn't. I used to believe in a plan. I used to believe that I had some mission. But I have been through enough now to know that everyone is just winging it. Some of us quite badly. Lucifer, he's just breaking toys. He's sowing destruction and chaos, and there is no grand purpose at work. And there's no special role for you. When Lucifer took over Rooney's body, I'm sorry. You were just there.
While I understand that Castiel here is more speaking about himself than about Kelly and he, as well, is very well much on the verge of a menty b, I find it so utterly unfair to tell her that she was ā€œjust thereā€.
First of all, NO, if anything, Lucifer was ā€œjust thereā€, she was where she had her right to be, doing her job, sleeping with her partner, talking about her dreams, living her life. That was her life and it was destroyed in an instant, it was only human that she needed a way to make sense of what she was going through. Pregnancy is already a nightmare and, on top of that, she had to go through all that?
And second of all, she literally came back to life after suicide, how couldnā€™t she not start behaving weirdly? I know the writers were writing Supernatural were Death has only value for characters without any ā€œspecial roleā€ in the narrative, but come on, they literally just wrote a character telling another character that she has slit her wrists and this is the reply she gets: youā€™re not special, what happened to you was because you were just there. Brrrrrrrr.
But letā€™s move to my second point.
Letā€™s talk about Castielā€™s vision. Because, you see, we think that Jack manipulated him but how do we really know it? Yes, thereā€™s that cut scene but it was cut nevertheless and itā€™s crucial that we donā€™t see it because, by not seeing it, we canā€™t really know for sure if Jack had manipulated Cas for real.
Letā€™s compare it with what Kelly sees when Jack sends her ā€œvisions of the futureā€ and what we see: Kelly sees what will happen next in the episode. Period. We see the same thing. Period. No mention of destiny, just the future in the very sense of ā€œwhatā€™s going to happen in the next few hoursā€. She, like us, doesnā€™t know what Jack has supposedly made Cas see. We know she hasnā€™t seen anything because in ā€œAll Along the Watchtowerā€ we have this little scene here:
KELLY: Tell me again. Tell me again what you saw. CASTIEL: Right, I sawā€“ I saw... I saw the future. I saw a world without pain or hunger or want. I saw the world that this child... that your child... KELLY: Mm. CASTIEL: ...will create. KELLY: Mm. CASTIEL: And it is a world without fear and without suffering and without hate. KELLY: Mm. CASTIEL: I saw paradise.
So the one who was in love with the idea of Jackā€™s special destiny was not Kelly but Cas.
This is why this dialogue from ā€œTombstoneā€ seems suspicious to me:
CASTIEL: Yeah, I know she is. Kelly wasā€¦ She was a very brave woman. JACK: She left me a message. She said I had an angel watching over me. CASTIEL [sighs]: Jack, I'm so sorry. I-I should've been here for you. JACK: No. It's okay. It's justā€¦ I understand why she trusted you. Why I trusted you. CASTIEL: You remember that? JACK: I remember feelingā€¦ safe. CASTIEL: Jack, your mother, she believed that you would do amazing things. She said that you would change the world for the better. And now, looking at you, talking to you, I know that she was right, that we were right. Kelly would be so proud of you.
I think that the reason why we donā€™t see Casā€™ vision in s12 is because the show wanted to do something with it in s13. It might be the case, what with all the talk about how ā€œParadise on earthā€ the Original World seems to be compared to Apocalypse World in s13. I mean, these are just my speculations but it could be. Because, as a matter of fact, Casā€™ vision of Jackā€™s future is dropped in favor of Kellyā€™s vision of Jackā€™s future and thisā€¦ actually never happens?
What we know , though, is that Kelly tells Jack the following in ā€œPatienceā€:
Kelly: Jack, donā€™t let anyone tell you who youā€™re supposed to be. Because who youā€™re supposed to be isnā€™t fate, it isnā€™t me, it isnā€™t your father. You are who you choose to be. And I know youā€™re going to okay. You are going to be amazing. You have an angel watching over you.
Sheā€™s telling Jack that who he is isnā€™t fate, that he can choose who he wants to be. I mean, thereā€™s definitely something off going on here.
Maybe they just dropped Casā€™ ā€œI saw the futureā€ beat (that was presented as what convinced Cas to save Jack) on Kelly because, by the time the writers started planning s13, they decided that they werenā€™t gonna use it anymore? I donā€™t know, what Iā€™m saying, though, is that Kelly was more focused on her kid being good rather than evil as everybody assumed, whereas it was Cas who ā€œsawā€ Jack change the world for the better. But we donā€™t see what Cas sees so we have to take his and Deanā€™s word for it. And both words seem to be pretty biased. At any rate, something doesnā€™t add up in between s12 and s13.
So, to recap: what we have seen is that Kelly has never actually said that her son would do great things, but that she believed that her son would be good. It was Castiel who believed that Jack would create great things in the future because of a vision neither us nor Kelly have ever seen. Even if we consider the cut scene it still doesnā€™t account for the difference between Kellyā€™s and Casā€™ visions and/or why Kelly didnā€™t see what Cas saw.
Another person that underlies the ā€œto be vs to doā€ dilemma is Mia Vallens where in ā€œThe Big Emptyā€ she shapeshifts into Kelly:
JACK: Sam thinks you were right, thatā€”that Iā€™m good. He wants me to believe it, and I wanna believe it, too. Itā€™s just, Iā€¦ Iā€™ve hurt people. I didnā€™t mean to. It was an accident. And I know I should feel bad, and I say I feel bad, but most of the time, I mostlyā€¦ I donā€™t feel anything. And thatā€™s why I think maybeā€¦ Maybe Iā€™m a monster. MIA/KELLY: Jack. It doesnā€™t matter what you are. It matters what you do. And even monsters can do good in this world. JACK: You really believe that? MIA/KELLY: I have to. I have to.
First of all, Mia is telling Jack that heā€™s a monster, lol. And she literally doesnā€™t know heā€™s a Nephilim so WTF? Anyway, the things are two: either the writers were drunk when they wrote this (Jack: ā€œIā€™ve hurt people, I think Iā€™m a monsterā€ Mia: ā€œIt doesnā€™t matter what you are, only what you doā€. MIA, ffs, THIS IS WHAT HE HAS JUST TOLD YOU, HELLO????? HELLO???? Heā€™s just told you that he has done something that makes him think heā€™s a monster, how do you not see how your advice is shit?) or, more probably, they blatantly wanted to remind us that the person whoā€™s speaking is not Kelly but a shapeshifter who tries to do good things to atone for her past crimes. She has to believe that because of her own past, not Jack, not Kelly, Mia.
Whatā€™s more, Jack saying he doesnā€™t feel anythingā€¦ doesnā€™t really mean he doesnā€™t feel anything. Since he was born heā€™s been living with two men obsessing over ā€œgood and evilā€, two concepts he still clearly and rightfully doesnā€™t understand because nobody is explaining him shit. How is he supposed to know? Of course heā€™s confused as to how or what he should feel.
For example, by the end of ā€œTombstoneā€ Jack is evidently confused and ashamed. He feels shame because he has ā€œfailedā€ in front of his father, his ā€œfailureā€ resulted in the death of an innocent man and, whatā€™s more, Sam, Cas and Dean are talking about him in the other room like heā€™s just proven that heā€™ll never be good. Excluding and talking about someone when this someone is feeling shame is, like, the worst response ever.
No wonder the episode ends like this:
SAM: Jack, look, this life, what we do, it'sā€¦ it's not easy. And we've all done things we regret. JACK: Just don't. You're afraid of me. CASTIEL: Jack, no. JACK: No, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just another monster. DEAN: No, you're not. I thought you were. I did. Butā€¦ Like Sam said, we've all done bad. We all have blood on our hands. So if you're a monster, we're all monsters. JACK: No, you don'tā€¦ Every time I try and do something good, people get hurt. I thought I was getting better. I'm notā€¦ I don't know what I am, but I know I can't make the world a better place, not like this. I can't even do one good thing. And I know that if I stay, I'm gonna hurt you. All of you. Andā€¦ I can't. You're all I have.
My heart aches a little at the words ā€œYouā€™re all I haveā€ because they have all failed him so much and he literally doesnā€™t have anyone else.
Also, Jack echoing of Casā€™ words ā€œShe said that you would change the world for the betterā€ resembles what Chuck told Sam and Dean in s11 and that Dean paraphrases in his prayer to him: ā€œYou said the earth would be fine because it had meā€¦ and it had Samā€ discarding them as false (canā€™t shake the feeling that they wanted to go somewhere with that ā€œParadise on earthā€ crap).
All Jack has has unfortunately failed him: Sam has failed him with his training mentality that bore no fruit and made Jack think that he had value only if he succeeded; Dean has failed him because he both threatened to kill him and provided ā€œshelterā€ for him putting Jack in the position of basically having to live with his possible executioner (we know Dean wouldnā€™t eventually do it but the point is that Jack doesnā€™t and Deanā€™s threats deeply, deeply affect him).
Cas was the only one who could have had a real shot with Jack but he arrived tooo lateeee! And he (understandably) came back with his own package of preconceived ideas, ideas that made it all worse because Cas didn't know that Jack was noooot doing well! I hate SPN, why would they do this to meeeee?
Of course Jack would eventually run away. Perhaps the major takeaway from all this is that he did way better on his own than with the three of them. And that says a lot.
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angelinthefire Ā· 2 years ago
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Thinking of a version of 13x04 The Big Empty where Mia the shapeshifter therapist offers to appear to Dean as someone he lost, and he looks like he's going to turn her down, but then he hesitates, and gives her this long evaluating look. And then the scene cuts, and you think Mia is going to appear as Mary, because that's who they were talking about before. You see Dean's reaction, and it's this blank kind of shock, because he was expecting to see what he sees, but he didn't realize how it would hit him. And you hear "Hello Dean". And it's Cas. And he doesn't look right, Mia doesn't have his mannerisms, and she doesn't have the outfit, just a plain white button-down and dark slacks, but she looks enough like him. Dean's about to say something, but he can't. He just swallows and grits his jaw and stares. And Mia/Cas says something like "I'm sorry I left you, I know it's hard. But I love you; and that love will stay with you." And you the viewer don't think too too much of the word "love", because Cas has used it before, love like family, love like friends. But anyways, Dean hears that and he frowns, like he's trying to internalize it, he's trying to get some closure out of this, but he can't. He shuts his eyes, with furrowed brows, and he's regretting that he agreed to this at all. And then Mia/Cas moves closer to Dean. She puts her hand on his cheek, and Dean sucks in a breath but he keeps his eyes closed. And then she leans in and kisses him so, so softly. Because she thinks they were like that. And at first Dean trembles at the kiss, but he keeps his eyes closed and lets it happen. Only after a few seconds does he jerk back, wide-eyed, looking terrified. And of course Mia/Cas is immediately worried and sorry that she made a mistake, and she says "Dean--" and is about to apologize. But Dean just turns around and storms out. Dean rushes away from the house, breathing hard like he'd just lost a fight. He gets in the car and slams the door. And his expression collapses, hes looks shattered, and he gasps, shaken and hurting, and tears run down his face.
And that's it. No further discussion or explanation of what happened. No comment from Dean. And then 13x05 Advanced Thanatology happens as normal.
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s0fter-sin Ā· 11 months ago
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sometimes i think about how much of a waste it was to just have cas ignoring samā€™s prayers in s6 instead of him actually not being able to hear him bc he was soulless and his prayers didnā€™t work
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naivesilver Ā· 4 months ago
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I'm putting more effort into investigating this Cupid Asteria thing than in my entire final dissertation for uni jsyk
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miiilowo Ā· 5 months ago
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hey. why didn't dean get a hunters funeral when he first got eviscerated by hellhounds in season 3. He was just In The Ground
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abyss55199794 Ā· 2 years ago
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fic where sam gets fatally wounded by something cosmic and cas tries to heal it but it doesnt work and sam is like delirious and cant even feel the blood gushig from his neck only that casā€™ hands are slick and warm and sams like trying to ask ā€œare you okā€ but it wont come out and cas is there just going Ohhhh No
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samdeancrimespree Ā· 8 months ago
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i donā€™t think dean loving cas/sam is an either/or. i think he loved them both.
cas falling in love with the righteous man who is in love with own brother, and realizing it didnā€™t mar his soul at all. dean was perfect, and half of his soul was samā€™s. cas falling not only because he loved dean, but because the abomination, the boy king, was gentle and selfless and believed that angels could be good. he couldnā€™t love dean without loving sam because he held deanā€™s soul in his hands and it was damaged from torture but even before that, from being ripped away from his soulmate.
cas forgetting that humans couldnā€™t see the things he saw, they couldnā€™t tell just by looking at those two how close they were. their souls only looked right when they were pressed against each other; that was when the tangle of colours made sense, bleeding into the other like a breathing work of art.
cas protecting them both from harm because nothing is more precious than love and devotion and family and the winchesters represent it in every possible way.
cas was the only one they trusted to take care of their brother, and that trust was more like love than anything cas could imagine. and he understood why theyā€™re like that, because itā€™s intoxicating, to be looked at with so much emotion it burns like hellfire, holy oil, agony.
cas loved the winchesters, and they loved him back. not as much as they loved each other, but he would never expect them to.
because dean winchester owned very few things, and even fewer of them loved him back. because there were only two living beings known as his: brother, and angel. dean called cas his brother, and cas could tell that was a higher honour than marriage, and thatā€™s when he knew he was a winchester.
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sunforgrace Ā· 1 year ago
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he sat there on the ground and cried. for cas. cas told him he loved him was taken away and he buried his head in his hands and wept
#AND THEN THEY TRIED TO PRETEND LIKE IT WAS FINE? and after the widower arc#it wasnā€™t even as nearly fucked then this time all their friends got thanos snapped and we donā€™t even get canon confirmation that they were#brought back. even with covid not even a vo or offhand mention or reference#jack is god and in every drop of rain or whatever.#sure yeah whatever they beat the final boss and got over the protagonist angst of it all but the world was still the same it just wasnā€™t a#chuck story which only ramped up to being The Big Problem in the season 14 finale.#cas was stabbed by an angel blade and dean broke while wrapping his body for the funeral pyre. ALONE. and was. not doing well#and you tell me itā€™s whatever after he sat there in that dungeon refused to answer samā€™s calls and cried during the complete and total end#of the world. that he just bounced back from that and died and drove around heaven for decades in a few minutes and smiled while americana#electric guitar played on some bridge#cas helped oh thatā€™s nice I guess smile now I have GOT to go drive my car around. because I did not get enough of that in my time on earth.#unlike my time with cas which I am satisfied with and in no need of closure. perhaps a conversation. looking upon him to see him alive and#well. healing some of that trauma of the last time I saw him. a reunion hug maybe even which has become tradition. CUT THE CAMERAS deadass#heā€™s going for the face touch. no this we cannot possibly have time for we have to play carry on wayward son twice#sorry. it has been three years. sorry. itā€™s just so funny buddy your ass did NOT escape the hamster wheel
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minimooberry Ā· 1 year ago
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all of my bitches are pretty they showing their tts its up to the ceiling <3
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mixtpecas Ā· 1 month ago
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Young Mary is so interesting to me and same with Anna's character arc like. If I could I would genuinely end spn after season 5 and start a spin off focused on young Mary + Anna and their rebellions from their families. And also just seeing what Castiel is up to somehow in some episodes.
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angelsdean Ā· 2 years ago
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imagine if spn were an actual soap opera. imagine like 5000+ episodes. rewatches would take forever
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strawberrryangel Ā· 1 year ago
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in trans/ftm dean headcanons, do you think dean didnā€™t want j*hn to call him dean at first? like he would prefer j*hn deadname him than ruin his chosen name with the familiar burn of anger yk. so only sammy and bobby would call him dean at first and they just kinda kept it between them for a while.
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abimee Ā· 7 months ago
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the range of answers im getting just goes to show that retail is a network of evil in a multitude of ways almost unfathomable
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