#caryl symbolism

[youmakethelight]

At this point, I'm convinced there's a caryl shipper who keeps sneaking into all the writers rooms and adding little caryl hints to the scripts while no one's looking. No way there are this many subtext cues in every single script if there isn't someone in there trying to be a caryl truther.

[butchladymaria]

could you draw rom? spider or human, i just think shes neat :)

as you wish 🕸️🕷️🕸️

[caryl-til-the-end]

How long can we go on like this fellow Carylers?

I want to keep #carylpositivity and I still plan to, even in the midst of adversity. However, I can't ignore the elephant in the room. The big clumsy not very smart elephant. Zabel. I know what Zabel has outright told us. Twice. And I'll get back to that. Zabel has continued the trend of what others that came before him have done but on a whole new "I don't give a shit" level. He's been a big tease. Getting us hot and bothered, just to shoot us down completely. Will they, won't they? If that's not a recipe for disaster, idk what is. Caryl fans aren't just seeing what they "want" to see. They have been bringing us to the edge of the cliff for years, just to pull us right back up again. They have teased & teased, added symbolism, tender touching, telling looks, sweet shows of affection, strong emotion from someone who seldom shows any emotion (I'm thinking the "If she gets hit by lightning scene"), jealousy (Ezekiel), giving up everything just to save each other... Then Zabel opens his big mouth again to basically say Caryl will not happen, AND THEN the teaser comes out the same day and shows CARYL in an intimate pose by the firelight with her shirt off her shoulder and Daryl close by? And Zabel has the audacity to say "I don't see them as romantic". 😡😡🤬🤬 He is stillllllllll gaslighting Carylers and using little hints to keep us barely hoping while flat out saying it won't happen??? Wth! What a brazen, ridiculous, stupid thing to do! AMC if you don't kick him to the curb, you've lost most of your fan base. How will you come back from that? I don't plan to give AMC my money or my time just to be beat down again and again. But I'm a caryl fan. Caryl til the end. As long as the show is still on air, I will maintain hope. I will watch for signs from the fan base that there's a reason to come back (and it better be EXPLICIT); none of these pathetic attempts to keep us hanging on with 0 payoff. I will come back and stick with them as long as they will keep seasons coming IF Caryl canon happens. Until then, I'll be over here still sad and beaten down, but standing strong in my belief that Caryl is and has always been romantic. I won't give up hope, as long as there's any life left. Kick Zabel to the curb and give us a showrunner who loves Caryl as much as we do. A showrunner who will give us a beautiful romantic EPIC story for Caryl that we know has been hiding in the shadows all along. @AMC_TV

[shana-silver-fox]

TBOC 2.03 L'Invisible

The title was clearly a callback to Rick and Carol's conversation at how good she is playing undercover detective. She gets it done in this episode.

Lots found this one boring, but for someone like me who likes to over analyze every little bit it was packed with lots of goodies.

Ces Douleurs

Genet: These pains we carry, we women need to learn to let them go. Men seem to have no problem doing that.

Carol: They certainly do not.

Damn. I FELT THAT hard!

we open with Genet's back story and what will be a parallel later to Tinkyl

The purposeful comparison of Carol to the Mona Lisa is just *chefs kiss.

The most famous painting in the world. The most famous lady of The Walking Dead. Both with that hidden secret behind their smile.

This quickly turns into Genet displaying a show of power over a much bigger man by making him eat food off the floor like a dog. There is another scene in the next episode that is very similiar. Would like to hear ya'lls thoughts on the point of this.

The man she humiliates has disrespected the lady who is serving them food. I lost count of the times haters have tried to diminish and disrespect Carol for "just being the cook". Wonder if this was a Melissa note? Genet tells Carol she has no tolerance for bullies, and no one has been bigger bullies in this fandom than the Carol haters.

Loved this. We know Carol wants Daryl in the kitchen with her.

Experiments. Yes we heard about Daryl’s “experiment” from Norman. Just as gruesome. No thanks.

Cordron: I had him and I let him go.

Carol knows what that’s like. Cordron also thinks Carol’s last name is Dixon now.

More talk about coincidences and signs. Look for the signs. 🪧

Remmy let us down, but his line saying Carol would have done the same for HER DARYL is so true.

The symbolism of Carol riding to the rescue on a white horse through a tunnel was beautiful. She was just cut off, unfortunately. So much tunnel symbolism connected to Caryl I could do a seperate post. Even Losang talks about light at the end of the tunnel. “you make the light” “follow my light”

I do love Carol’s reaction to hearing Daryl has aligned himself with a religious group. “REALLY?” Like the fandom’s reaction to this version of Daryl so far 😂

Carol: the war to end all wars? I’ve heard that before.

Shade at Rick?

Calling Daryl Carol’s raison d’être is spot on. It translates to “reason to live”

Tick tock time for the fairytale to end

Conveniently Sylvia dies so Isabelle doesn’t have to confess to executing Emile.

Why did Izzy just stand there and wait for Daryl to shoot walker Sylvie? Was she gonna let it happen? 🤨

I was impressed with Daryl’s action scene. Norman’s stunt double actually got a bit of a break. He made sure to get his Carol knife back!

Losang’s break down of Daryl is amazing….

losang :Simply reacting. A man alone. It’s a sad state. He’s right. Daryl has been just reacting not feeling since he got to France. and he feels totally alone

Only by risking everything can we be sure. Daryl’s so scared to risk everything with Carol

Daryl: What happens if you’re wrong?

Losang: If I’m wrong there would be no point in going on There’s Daryl’s greatest fear. If he risks it all to tell Carol how he feels and ends up being wrong and she doesn’t feel the same way, then loses her friendship, he will think he doesn’t have a reason to go on.

Laurent and Daryl’s cave couldn’t be more Lost Boys coded.

Laurent: Not Daryl. He never believed.

Yes toodles, & that’s why Tinkerbelle dies.

The Leah parallel is just too much

When Isabelle figures out she’s Tinkerbelle 😥

Ok did everyone hear that distinct change in music tone after Tink says ILY? It was fraught, not happy. Along with Daryl’s expression.

Lasong to Daryl :Isabelle has always had an open mind and heart. You sadly are beyond hope

Daryl’s heart has been closed off and he thinks he’s beyond hope 😭😭😭 but hope is coming to open it!

Hope in the form of a tiny woman from Georgia is on her way to save you. Hope is not lost Daryl, she has a map!

The perfect bookend to this episode was Isabelle’s Douleurs Exquise . It’s a very common French phrase that means the pain of unrequited love. Poor Izzy. Getting silence and no return on that ILY was rough. 🥶

From Ces Douleurs , to Douleurs Exquise

Fin

[thebookofcarol]

GOOD MORNING CAROL AND CARYL NATION!!

iam a sobbing mess after watching the book of carol. what a fantastic beautiful first ep of the season. i instantly fell in love with Ash. not only did he lost his son Avi the exact same way Carol lost Sophia, but he serves Carol dinner with Cherokee roses at the table, reminding her they are a symbol of hope (cue to caryl flashback!).

the flashbacks pay a beautiful homage to Carol's history on the show, and that first connection between Carol and Daryl. Carol will do anything to get to Daryl, but not without guilt, and when she gives Ash a way out of helping her, he tells her "If you're not moving forward then you're dying." that's beautiful.

on the other hand, Daryl still wants to go home, once again, stating he's only staying until they find another boat. and he is constantly reminded of his violent nature ("angels always send their most vicious demon to do their dirty work"), and it feels like staying at the Nest with Laurent and Losang's people is like repressing a part of who he is.

[roryelijah02]

Hey, wondering if you'd like to do a scene analysis for Carol and Daryl's argument in Find Me (10x18)?

When carol says "is it possible she just left?" and daryl says "WHAT" and then Carol says "it's not an accusation", I'm never sure what's happening there. What is the 'accusation'? There are a lot of parallels between leah and carol. And daryl says that he should have been there for leah while carol says she doesn't need a saviour etc. I wondered whether daryl is so sensitive about the idea that leah just left bc that's something carol has done to him which hurt him? Or maybe it means something else.

And there's also when daryl says to carol "you never know when to stop" which parallels carol saying to him during his years in the woods "I don't want to lose you out here because you don't know when to stop".

And when he says "I know where I'm supposed to be" as well as him writing to Leah "I belong with you". What are your thoughts about those things?

I also spotted that after Carol leaves the argument saying that she's going to fix the door, in the closing moment, you can hear her with a hammer presumably fixing the door while Daryl is still looking out the window. To me, this symbolises how she's trying to fix things while Daryl is still looking for what he thinks he needs to find. I haven't heard anyone else talk about the symbolism of this bit, so would love to hear if you have any thoughts?

Would love to hear your general thoughts and opinions about the scene too :)

Ooo, this is such a good ask, thank you! Season 10 Episode 18, Find Me, is such a heart-wrenching episode and I'm so excited to do an analysis for this scene. It's a very difficult scene for a lot of Carol/Caryl fans especially to get through but there's a lot of interesting details to unpick within it so let's get started.

Before I get onto the analysis of the fight scene between Daryl and Carol, I want to mention how previous to this scene happening, it's Carol who finds the note that Daryl initially left for Leah "we belong together - find me" and that's the catalyst for this whole upcoming conversation. It's no coincidence that Carol was actually the person to find the note and as she's now on her way to find him in France, I find this detail very interesting.

Now, onto the analysis. For me, a lot of this scene can be understood by thinking about Daryl's hero/guilt complex, made up of pieces of trauma that he's really struggled with as early as season 3. It started with Merle, then Beth, then Glenn, then Connie and now Leah, whom he has no idea where she is or if she's even alive. This is a big reason why the conversation starts with Daryl saying "I should've been there - I could've helped her" because he feels guilty, for multiple reasons: Daryl began his relationship with Leah during the time when Carol went to marry Ezekiel. Whilst Daryl had given Carol his blessing to marry Ezekiel, it's clear to see how disappointed and sad he is whilst doing it and it was confirmed through Angela Kang's script notes that Daryl was jealous of Ezekiel during this scene but ultimately, Daryl being Daryl and how much he cares about Carol, wants to put her happiness first and if that means giving her his blessing to marry someone else, he's going to do that. Now obviously, the main reason why Daryl was out in the woods during the 6 year time jump in season 9 was to look for Rick, I believe another reason he chooses to stay out in the woods is because he can't bare to see Carol and Ezekiel together every day and this is why he refuses their offers to stay at the Kingdom during the time jump. There are some very noticeable parallels between Carol and Leah. Firstly, there are some parallels of the scenes Daryl shares with Carol during Find Me and those he shares with Leah in the flashbacks of the same episode, one of these being the most noticeable is the fishing scene. Moreover, there are quite a few similarities and parallels between Leah and Carol as people, the most noticeable being that both women have lost a child and consequently decided to isolate themselves in a cabin away from everyone else. The theory is that Daryl, seeing all of these similarities between Leah and Carol, took comfort in Leah who almost put a plaster, if you like, over the hole in Daryl's heart that Carol had left when she went to marry Ezekiel. This is just one of the reasons why Daryl feels guilty because he was never in love with her and Leah knew this because she admits it to Pope in Season 11 Episode 4, Rendition - that's because Daryl's heart was already with somebody else, she'd just temporarily covered the hole in his heart that they'd left. Daryl probably also felt guilty because he didn't give his full commitment to Leah and only decided to go to the cabin to be with her properly once Carol told him that she wouldn't be able to come and visit him at his camp anymore due to her commitments at the Kingdom. I believe this is because Daryl finally realised that he'd lost Carol for good because before, with her continuing to visit him at his camp and even offering to come and stay out in the woods with him, his heart probably still held a little bit of hope in it. The other thing that probably makes Daryl feel guilty is that when he finally did go to the cabin to be with her, she'd already gone and from what we could tell, he didn't spend much time actively looking for her, as he had other people who'd gone missing. I think, with him saying this at the beginning of the conversation, Daryl worries that something could've happened to Leah and he thinks that maybe, if he'd been there when it happened, he could've prevented it or stopped her from getting hurt.

Carol suggests that maybe Leah left of her own accord. I believe that Daryl says "what?!" here because he doesn't want to believe that Leah would've done that after telling him she would wait for him to make a decision about what he wants and where he wants to be. I also believe this is why Carol responds with "it's not an accusation" because she doesn't want Daryl to think she's accusing Leah of just fleeing and abandoning him, especially when neither of them know the full story or what actually happened.

It's moments after this that it becomes clear Carol is, however, fully aware of Daryl's hero/guilt complex and I think she fully believes this is why he's so caught up about Leah as she says "stop thinking that every time you lose someone it's your fault, because of something you've done". This is her gentle way of trying to tell him that if Leah just left or decided she didn't want to be with him any more of her own free will, then that's Leah's choice and Leah's loss - it's not on him.

However, this is where some of Daryl's feelings about everything start to come out and there are deeper meanings under the surface that come with everything he's saying. Carol begins by listing some of the people who she believes Daryl feels like he's had a part to play in or blames himself completely for their dissapearence and/or demise: Leah, Rick and Connie. I believe that Carol in no way, shape or form blames Daryl for what happened to Connie and that she instead fully blames herself. However, knowing him as well as she does, especially as she knows of his hero/guilt complex, I think she thinks there may be even a small part of him that blames himself for Connie. She's very quickly proven wrong though because Daryl turns around and tells her he thinks what happened to Connie is on her and that she never knows when to stop. As previously mentioned, I think Carol already believes she's fully to blame for Connie but I think hearing it coming from the mouth of the person who's closest to her is a bit like a kick in the teeth. Daryl telling Carol she doesn't know when to stop is a parallel to when she told him, in one of the flashbacks during Find Me, that she doesn't want to lose him outside in the woods because he doesn't know when to stop looking for Rick. Therefore, it's like Daryl is pointing out that she told him he needs to learn when to stop but she also needs to learn the same thing. It's also him starting to let out his hurt and frustration about how, no matter what he did or said to her to try and help and comfort her, she wouldn't stop hurting herself and she broke her promise that she would stop trying to hurt herself in Season 10 Episode 9, Squeeze, whilst they were in the cave.

Carol goes on to say that whilst she's sorry for what happened to Connie, she's not sorry for going after the horde and for getting justice for Henry's death. When she says that she was right, I believe she's refering to being right about Alpha and her behaviour and her predictions for how the Whisperer war would go. This upsets Daryl more because to him, her saying that she's not sorry about going after the horde could also mean she's not sorry for the consequences that brought but more importantly to him, she's also not sorry for risking her life in the process, something he desperately tried to prevent for weeks as he was trying to get the message through to her that it would crush him if anything happened to her, but that message kept falling on deaf ears. This is why Daryl turns around and says "and that's all that matters, you being right". To me, this is a callback to Season 10 Episode 8, The World Before, when Daryl tells her "you want her dead so badly, you don't even care what happens to you." Daryl is saying this to her because he's hurt that she's willing to put the people she cares about's lives but most importantly her life on the line just so she could defeat Alpha and prove she was right about the Whisperers, when he believes that she's fully aware what the impact on him would be if she got hurt or worse, died.

It's now that Carol realises that this whole conversation they're having isn't even about Leah, or Connie or anybody else. She realises it's about her. She asks Daryl to tell her what he really wants to say. She asks him to open up to her and be honest with her. Daryl responds with "you shouldn't have come". This is him using a deflection tactic - he doesn't want to say what he really wants to her. I believe this is because of a mixture of him not wanting to open up right now because of how hurt and frustrated he is and him not wanting to snap at her and saying something he'll end up regretting. I also think there's a part of him that regrets starting this conversation and he's a bit mad that they came across the cabin which became the catalyst for the conversation and that's also why he tells her she shouldn't have come.

When Carol says that she wanted to come to help, I believe her. I believe that by the time we get to 10C, especially the latter half of 10C, Carol has realised the consequences of some of her actions earlier in the season and it's clear she's thought a lot about the mistakes she's made and is now ready to start fixing them and building bridges with people. Therefore, I definitely don't think she's lying when she says this. Daryl, however, as the person who knows her the best, knows that there's more to it than just that and that's why he responds with "no, you wanted to run." It's not that he didn't believe what she said but that he knew there was another, maybe bigger reason behind her wanting to come with him. He says he believes she's running from her guilt but I believe another part of the reason why he thinks she's running and why he's upset and worried about is because she's not happy being around Team Family, but more specifically him. He knows he would do anything to make her happy but as she keeps running, that puts doubts in his mind about whether he'll ever be able to make her happy and that hurts him (more on this later).

When he says that she made it his problem, she says his only problem is feeling like he needs to save everybody - another reminder that she's fully aware of his hero/guilt complex, because if there's anybody he can't save, he will never be able to forgive himself for what happens to them. This hurts Daryl though, even more so when Carol says she doesn't need a saviour because if there's anybody he wants to protect and save at anytime, it's her. From the very early days, he's been saving her, protecting her and looking after her just as she's done him and he's enjoyed doing this because he wants to do it for her so hearing her say that she doesn't need that is really hard for him, especially because he couldn't bare to see her in any danger.

When Carol tells him she just needs a friend, Daryl responds with "friends don't have the same conversations over and over again." Again, this feeds into Daryl's frustration about the fact that he was desperately trying to be there for Carol and get through to her and guide her through her grief and all the trauma she was going through, but all his messages were falling on deaf ears. On a deeper note, I also believe part of this frustration, however small, is about how stuck he is in terms of having feelings for Carol but feeling unable to say them aloud to anyone, but especially to her. Daryl has kind of gone in a constant cycle in terms of his feelings for Carol. He thinks he's lost her, realises how short life is - especially during the apocalypse, decides that he'll tell her how he feels and then something or someone gets in the way (I can make a whole separate analysis on the 'cycle of feelings' if you'd like). Consequently, Daryl is now at a stage where he wants to admit it to her so much that it's becoming frustrating for him because he still can't tell her because she's grieving, they've had the Whisperer War to deal with and she keeps trying to run away. The notion that Daryl's messages have been falling on deaf ears is emphasised when Carol says that this type of conversation is new to her and it only frustrates Daryl more, who once again tries to tell her that this is what he's been trying to tell her and help her with all along and because she's not been listening for so long, he's now at a point where he feels like his message will never get through to her.

Carol, evidently annoyed now, tells Daryl that if he'd wanted to prevent all of this from happening, he should've just let her get back on the boat and he confirms that yes, he should've done that - that he stopped her from running and he shouldn't have. A lot of fans are confused as to why Daryl says this but I do believe there's a reason behind it and it's not because he wanted her to go back on the boat. We all saw how hard Daryl tried to get Carol to stay, he even offered her to run away to New Mexico multiple times if she would've be happier doing that. However, things got in the way of them going to New Mexico and Daryl firmly believes that Carol hasn't been the same since she got off the boat, something in which he mentions to Michonne during season 10 episode 3, Ghosts. Therefore, I believe the reason Daryl says that he should've let Carol go back on the boat is because he's come to believe that she would've been happier there. That, like he told Michonne, he believes that she'd found happiness out at sea but he begged her to stay and since then, she hasn't been the same Carol that he's always known. I believe there is a note of guilt from Daryl there because he feels like he's taken away her peace and happiness.

Now comes one of the most difficult lines to hear from Daryl in the whole scene and seeing the hurt on Carol's face as he says these things is heartbreaking but I do understand and have ideas of why he says it. "You wanna run, run. I know where I'm supposed to be. I won't stop you this time." Let's break this down into parts. So firstly, Daryl tells her she should run if she wants to. I believe that this is Daryl putting everythig he's thinking and feeling aside and is willing to let her go, if that's what will be best for her. The reason he says it in the tone he does is because he's already had to let her go once, when she went to marry Ezekiel and that aleeady caused him enough heartache. The thought of losing Carol has always crushed Daryl but as previously mentioned, especially after seeing how happy and at peace it made her to be at sea on the boat, I think he's come to realise that he needs to let her go and be happy, even if that's somewhere else and with someone other than him, even if it breaks his heart - because just like he felt when he gave her his blessing to marry Ezekeil, he is always going to put her happiness first no matter what. That's why he says that if she wants to run, he won't stop her this time because no matter what it will do to him, if it will make her happy to be elsewhere and with other people, that's all that matters to him. When he says he knows where he's supposed to be, I don't think this is about Leah, or about being with Team Family or even being at any of the communities we know about, as a lot of people think. I think that's Daryl's way of saying - "I know you're my person and I know I'm meant to be with you. Now you need to figure out where you're supposed to be and if that's not with me, if it's someplace else or with other people, then I'll let you go, because i want you to be happy." That's what I feel like is hidden underneath the words he says there but he can't say that whole thing aloud because it's crushing his heart just by saying the things he is.

The conversation ends by Carol saying "I was right - our luck's ran out, you and me." This is interesting because Carol saying "I was right" refers back to when she said it during this conversation before and it makes me question whether it was this notion that she meant all along. When she talks about their luck running out, I think she's referring to the fact that they've always been so lucky to have such a close and special bond, but now, it's crumbling apart and if she thought that they had the worst falling out they'd ever had after the cave incident in Squeeze, then she was heavily mistaken, because it has gotten worse and now, it feels like their luck has run out, it feels like their bond is broken and that they've both lost each other. Quite a few fans compared this scene to being like a break up and I can certainly see where they're coming from.

I love what you said about Carol fixing the door at the end and Daryl looking out into the open. I'd never thought about that before. However, it does make sense with how Carol tries to fix and make up for her mistakes in season 11. I think the symbolism for that part would've been more noticeable and stronger if Caryl had had a chance to talk about this argument and build bridges from it in season 11 and I think, for a time, that was the plan, but unfortunately, Melissa then dropped out of the spinoff (for a time) and the main show received its end date before anybody expected so that resulted in a lot of things they wanted to achieve in season 11 not being able to be completed.

Hopefully, in the spinoff, where the focus will be completely on Daryl and Carol, they can have deep, meaningful conversations that they need to have and begin to work through their trauma and build bridges for things that remain unresolved from the flagship show ❤️🤞

[noneorother]

Share your GOS2 bibliography with me

How crazy is it that season 2 has basically forced me to go back to university. I’ve done more reading and critical analysis and historical research than I have in years. I bite my thumb at you, Neil (affectionate).

And as I’m sure I’m not alone in this, I’d love to see your bibliography of all of the references or reading/watch lists. I’m sure to pick up a few good ones! I’ll go first.

Movies + TV Arrival - Denis Villeneuve Clue - Jonathan Lynn I Know Where I'm Going - Powell & Pressburger The Ball - Magnus Dennison and Katja Roberts Every Day - Michael Sucsy About Time - Richard Curtis The Red Shoes - Powell & Pressburger The Small Back Room - Powell & Pressburger The Tales of Hoffmann - Powell & Pressburger Stairway to Heaven - Powell & Pressburger Ill Met By Moonlight - Powell & Pressburger The League of Gentlemen's Apocalypse - Steve Bendelack Monty Python's Life of Brian - Terry Jones Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Terry Gilliam & Terry Jones The Twilight zone (The Arrival) Boris Sagal The Twilight zone (The Hitch-Hiker) - Alvin Ganzer Staged (Seasons 1 and 2) - Simon Evans & Phin Glynn Books The Crow Road - Iain Banks The Bridge - Iain Banks The Scholars of Night - John M. Ford Symbols of Sacred Science - René Guénon Catch-22 - Joseph Heller A Tale of Two Cities - Charles Dickens The Colour of Magic - Terry Pratchett Night Watch (Discworld) - Terry Pratchett Parlement of Foules - Geoffrey Chaucer The language of the birds - Farid ud-Din Attar Pride & Prejudice - Jane Austen Persuasion - Jane Austen Midnight Days - Neil Gaiman Negative Burn #11 - Neil Gaiman Chivalry - Neil Gaiman Other Les contes d'Hoffamann - opera, Jacques Offenbach Don Giovanni - opera, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart The Line, the Cross and the Curve - musical, Kate Bush The book of Enoch - Ethiopian Apocryphal trs. Rev. George Schodde, PhD

I'm sure there will be more... sigh. Spoiler alert: there are more! Donnie Darko - 2001, Richard Kelly Nothing Lasts Forever - 1984, Tom Schiller The Ghosts of Berkley Square - 1947, Vernon Sewell Brazil! - 1985, Terry Gilliam No Bed for Bacon - 1941, Caryl Brahms and S. J. Simon Don't, Mr Disraeli! - 1949, Caryl Brahms and S. J. Simon Murder Mysteries - Neil Gaiman The Man Who Was Thursday - 1908, GK Chesterton Small Gods - 1992, Terry Pratchett Ipomadon - Medieval - Trs. Richard Scott-Robinson

[my-mt-heart]

When I think of the Caryl spinoff we were promised, I think of all the space there'd be to explore a new, but hard-earned romance between the two underdogs turned most iconic duo of TWD.

I think of them getting back to their roots, helping each other heal from their trauma, and conquering their fears of not being worthy of each other's love.

I'm tired of sitting through explicit beats of shipbaiting for the sake of marketing Daryl as the most eligible bachelor and riling fans up while Caryl, the relationship that sold me on their chemistry and their one-of-a-kind bond is treated like a dirty secret.

I'm tired of Carol feeling, and being portrayed, as if she isn't good enough or young enough or blonde enough for Daryl and I'm tired of the ageism Melissa has to suffer in order for the show to please an unreliable market that's more likely to watch clips on TikTok then subscribe to the show anyway.

I’m tired of foils and subtext and symbolism being used to say something about Caryl's relationship in a round-about way without ever seeing the payoff.

I don't want a retread of Caryl’s entire story that makes me think...

Canon is coming!

We're almost there!

Just a little bit further!

Maybe the next episode!

Maybe the season finale!

Maybe the series finale!

Absolutely not.

Because I know the difference between telling a longform narrative and stringing me along, manipulating me into thinking I'm getting exactly what I want ...

At least Daryl and plot device #100 didn't get together.

At least Carol doesn't die.

At least Daryl and Carol are finally alone.

At least there's "hope."

...when in reality I'd be getting nothing I want and not even for any creative reasons, but because it isn't good for an EPs brand or his ego or whatever it may be.

There's a lot of hype for Melissa's/Carol's return right now, amplified because of the year-long fear that her fans were never going to see her again, but what's the hook going to be for S3? If AMC wants a large fanbase they can rely on to keep tuning in and to keep growing, they should want all Carylers on board. And to get us all on board, including the ones who left a long time ago, explicit canon that honors both Carol's and Daryl's journeys is a must.

S2 is THE chance to show me—clear as day—how Daryl and Carol really feel about each other. That they are in love. That they are and always have been each other’s only choice and plot devices 1-100 never changed that. That's the Caryl spinoff I'll watch.

*This is my response to a few anons I received over the past week or so. I figured it would be better for my sanity to address them all in one go.

[geostatonary]

A secret symbol left by Caryll, runesmith of Byrgenwerth.

A transcription of "Cheese," as spoken by left-behind Great Ones.

Allows one to make additional discoveries.

Cheeses symbolize the truth Master Willem sought in his research. Disillusioned by the limits of human intellect, Master Willem looked to beings from higher planes for guidance, and sought to line his brain with cheeses in order to elevate his thoughts.

[9lives2mics]

Nine Lives Two Mics (Caryl Podcast) | New Episode

🎙️Episode #41 - Caryl Leftovers🎙️

Join us as we dive into some Caryl Leftovers from #TWD. We discuss some unanswered questions, symbolism, missing scenes, and more. 

Spotify | Youtube 

[fareehaandspaniards]

Random Bloodborne headcanons post

(as I need to empty my head)

-Ludwig comes from a warm, southern country, he loves grapes and night walks. He had a predisposition to gain insight from his background, as his homeland had a philosophy close to Isz's (stars and sky are religious symbols). And since Laurence was aware of this, during Ludwig's communion with the Church, he handed him blood mixed with Burgenwerth samples from the Fishing Hamlet (out of curiosity)

-Rom's ascension was her own initiative and the result of research approved by Willem. Unlike Micolash, she conducted all her experiments on herself. As the last experiment she became pregnant and could finally hear the call of the Ebrietas, for she had discovered the subtle and delicate bond of the Kin. Only Willem knew of her intentions to use her own child to communicate with the Great Ones. And Laurence (the child's father), best friend Caryll, Yurie, who was in love with her, and the rest were left unaware

-Logarius felt sympathy for Ludwig, which resulted in a brief (because of the disasters in Yharnam) attachment. Ludwig carried the ideals of chivalry, and it was he who reminded Logarius of a “paragon of kindness”. In fact, Logarius' great quote about good and evil deeds is a paraphrase of Ludwig's words, remembered as the wisdom of the former. Logarius always knew his journey would end in death and bitterness, but would have been broken to learn how Ludwig died - labeled a “monster,” a convert, clinging only to the Light of his Holy Moonlight sword. They both would have preferred to die in battle as humans, by each other's blades.

-After Maria died, Gehrman changed. He was out of his mind for about a month, and Laurence forbade anyone to visit the hunters' workshop. Gehrman's mind left him and the Doll was created. The Doll heard many tears and drunken swearing from its grief-stricken creator. Gehrman spent evenings with the Doll, talked to her as if she were Maria alive, took her under his arm, and was generally insane. However, this obsession had passed, thanks to Laurence. The Doll later became literally alive in Hunter's dream. Poor Gehrman

-Caryll had heard the bell ringing since he was young and seen a face in the window at night. At first he was afraid, but as he grew older, he became interested. As he learned, he saw a Pthumerian woman. One night he disappeared without a trace, leaving behind only a wheelchair and an open window. No one knows where he went, and his corpse has never been found. (I think I wrote down that headcanon already, but I like too much :^))

-Logarius had always despised Rom for her excessive initiative in the affairs of the Church. For her antics, her attempts at leadership, and, above all, her familiarity with the vicar. He suggested to Laurence that he should “show her” where her place is, but was rudely rebuffed. I think to Logarius she would be a “fallen woman”, if only because she actually has a relationship with the vicar but spends all her time with Caryll. And he wouldn't care that their friendship is almost a familial bond, that Caryll is asexual, that they are each other's support and backbone. I think he's too conservative to realize that!

-Blood Saint Adeline is an aristocrat, and her little jabot was always on her. Actually, her family was against the Healing Church in general, but the girl was a rebel by nature, and so she first joined the Church, started helping the doctors, and then gave herself and her blood for transfusion.

-Logarius (Rogeriusz) is the brother of the King of Cainhurst, Annalise's consort. Actually, brother's death to create a child of the Blood, Logarius' contempt for Annalise as a woman, and his adherence to the ideals of “Pure” blood - led him to the Church. My Logarius is a big chauvinist, an unabashed asshole, and a testosterone warehouse! Perhaps the only thing that appealed to his conscience was Ludwig. But that didn't concern his plans for Cainhurst - here Logarius saw his purpose and meaning - to punish and destroy the unrighteous descendants of his lineage

-Maria and Logarius - actually not a bad pairing, I think! Initially, the two experienced sympathy for each other - Maria didn't know why he joined the Church, and he hoped Maria would share his ideals with him. But the more Maria learned about him, the more Logarius frightened her. He didn't know what she'd been through in Fishing Hamlet or what kind of burden she carried, nor did he generally give much thought to such a thing as “trauma.” So he treated her as a young, ambitious girl he knew from his life in Cainhurst. Perhaps their acquaintance would have ended in a duel, had it not been for events that drove them in different directions. Maria to the Research Hall, and him to preparing a raid on the castle.

-Logarius didn't appreciate Byrgenwerth' squad, Caryll, the whole gang of scientists. But he took an interest in Gehrman and hunting. He was always polite to him, respectful, like to an elder

Gehrman and Caryll were good friends! And while the old hunter was still on his feet, he was perfecting Caryll's chair, following the process of carving runes into the wood. The two found common ground easily, and it made Laurence mildly jealous. (To both Gehrman was like a father.)

Edgar grew up in the Church' Orphanage, though he was related to a respected scholar, Yurie .She didn't want to deal with him at first, since she never knew his mother or him, and she also had a job at the Research Hall. But when there was a risk that he might fall under the Church's experiments, Yurie took him. In fact, the boy grew up under her supervision and care, and also with Madlene (my name for Imposter Iosefka), who was dating Yurie. Essentially, he was raised by two women.

-Henriette, Alfred, Edgar and Bloody Crow of Cainhurst - are the youngest characters in the game (Gascoigne's daughters don't count)

-Willem was appointed “Head” of the Choir, but only formally, Laurence just wanted to make it appear that he was still involved in the affairs of the Healing Church. Willem himself was not interested in this, he was busy researching and helping Rom

-Many of the people of Yharnam still honor the old faith that lived here before the Church. The faith that replaced the Great Ones long-long ago, the faith of light and goodness. When Laurence brought it all back, many houses secretly turned against him.

-Damian had a large family. His parents, a merchant father and a puritan mother, died alone in their home on the outskirts of Yharnam. One of Damian's sisters disappeared in Hemwick, an older brother was one of the White Doctors of the Church and was torn apart by a monster, another sister died in a fire in one of the stores in Yharnam where she worked. Younger brother Jiri is buried next to Hemwick, and of all his family, Jiri's grave is the most visited by Damian himself. The family had always held to the old faith and did not approve of the Church that had come, nor did they approve of Damian's involvement with it. If they found out he was a Tomb Prospector, there would probably be a major scandal!

-Rom was the first owner of Augur of Ebrietas! When these babies were found in the catacombs, she was the first to be able to bond with one of them.

-Imposter Iosefka hates Rom because she thinks she's too naive and delicate, but also envies her a little - Rom's research is approved by the vicar himself, she's helped by Caryll, and sometimes Micolash lends a hand. And Madlene does everything on her own. She also has to “save” Yurie from her attachment to Rom in a way, because Yurie has suffered a very painful heartbreak.

-Damian is a bit obsessed with the subject of children! And it's an oddity he's trying to hide. He would operate on himself to change his body and be able to have a child (if he could). But all he can do is secretly pray to Oedon that one day he will have a child, adopted or not

-In Byrgenwerth age Willem often had affairs with female teachers! He is not a bad poet, and therefore sometimes wrote something for the ladies and invited them to a joint evening C:

-Gremia's mother is from the same land as Laurence's mother

Logarius is my personal diva of Yharnam. I swear he would wear high heels and win in "Yharnam's next Top model"

[youmakethelight]

I'm a slut for spotting/making up symbolism in TWD and one thing I want to point out about DD S1 is the knife Daryl takes from the convent armoury. I kept saying "why has he got Carol's knife" at first bc it's literally the same lol. And I'm not gonna do a rewatch right now bc my heart is weary but at the time I noticed him give it to isabelle at one point and then another time he gave it to laurent to help them protect themselves. In both cases, he always took it back. Idk just wondered whether it's a little Carol nod, like even if I'm letting you go for 5 mins to help protect someone I'm still gonna always come back to you. Idk idk idk

[bookqueenrules]

Daryl’s Pilgrimage: Why Daryl Dixson Season 2's Working Title Was Pilgrim

Most of us know that “Pilgrim” was the working title of DD season 2. I believe they changed it to The Book of Carol to throw yet another bone to Carylers because they will not be getting romantic Carly. No matter what the reason, you can’t escape that Season 2 is about Daryl’s pilgrimage.  We have gotten some CRAZY hints that this pilgrimage is all about finding Beth.

Exhibit A:  Check out the EXACT matching colors between the signage for DD 2 Pilgrim and Emily’s dress in the video for B or C for effort which came out last Fall during the same time DD 2 "Pilgrim" was being filmed.

Meaning of the word pilgrim:

A pilgrim (from the Latin peregrinus) is a traveler (literally one who has come from afar) who is on a journey to a holy place. 

So, what is Daryl’s pilgrimage? It’s his journey to a "holy" place that will make him “hole”. A place that has that “something” he first went out looking for.  A place that will contain his happy ending.

The Latin form of “peregriuns” is used for a another famous hunter, the The peregrine falcon (Falco peregrinus), also known simply as the peregrine. 

Two interesting facts about these birds are that they mate for life and often travel far, usually to a “high place”, to nest. They have been known to even build their nest in skyscrapers.  This bird is similar in coloring to the stuffed penguin Daryl finds on the boat in episode one. 

Exhibit B:  The Camino de Santiago

This is the pilgrimage mentioned in episode 6 of DD season 1.  Here is a little background info on the pilgrimage.

Let’s talk about the Hebrew root of the English name, James:

@angelthefirst1 and @frangipanilove have both done wonderful posts about how Daryl=Jacob/Israel right down to being tied to Leah even though he never loved her. Then, Daryl/Israel had to work another 7 years for his “Rachel” or in Daryl’s case, Beth. Another point here is that Jacob leaves his homeland and journeys a long distance, to his mother's people, and there he finds his love, Rachel. It's on this journey that Jacob has the Jacob's ladder dream and names the spot where his head laid during the dream, Beth-el.

So, you could say that this pilgrimage is the Way of Jacob(Daryl).  The route starts in various points in France as seen above but ends at the Santiago de Compostela where St. James' remains are said to be. 

Compostela means Field of Stars. It comes from the Latin “campus stellae” and is based on the stars of the Milky Way that, according to legend since the Middle Ages, had been outlined by the apostle St. James and followed by pilgrims to reach his tomb.

So,  pilgrims follow these stars from France, across the Pyrenees Mountains to find their way to Santiago de Compostela. This ties in perfectly with the Sirius “Dog Star” symbolism we see throughout TWD. 

Daryl Dixon season 2 is all about Daryl’s pilgrimage.  This spiritual journey will restore Daryl’s faith in God and lead him to his “happy ending” which will be a family with Beth. Just as it was Jacob's children who are the fathers of all of the nation of Israel, I believe it will be Daryl and Beth's children or their descendants who will "save" what is left of humanity.

[indigoraysoflight]

Hiiiii!!! Recently finished TWD and gotta say Carol and Daryl have given me brain rot and have taken up so much space in my head (like all I want is for those two idiots to just declare their undying romantic love for each other and kiss - so that I can get on with my life) Anyway - I am here to say that I love the work you and your friend (Laura, I believe - sorry for not tagging - new to all this) have been doing with the podcast - it has helped me discover new layers of these wonderful characters and see things from a different perspective and to appreciate them more. I have this ritual (especially for s10) where I wait for your podcast updates to rewatch the episodes every week (and oh boy - s10 is already so painful to watch - then combined with all your analysis - I think I just like torturing myself). I love both the characters individually as well. The reason I got to tracking down Caryl enthusiasts on Tumblr and Twitter is because I think you guys just have a deeper understanding of the characters individually as well. The sort of metas I see here breaking down the symbolism and stuff - its phenomenal. Unfortunately I don't think the GA has that depth of awareness about these characters - especially Carol (again just based on my experience of viewing all these reaction videos of YouTubers and reddit posts and all.) Carylers are incredibly perceptive and I am loving it.

Also I recently found out that you are the author of my favorite Caryl fic "Saudade" - The way you have written it to read like an episode on the show - with descriptions of these small minsicule moments between Daryl and Carol (the stolen glances and the yearning...the staring into each other's souls) and also the incorporation and focus on the rest of the characters that feels real - I don't know - just the whole ambiance of the fic feels canon - I just always go back to re-read it whenever I start missing these two too much - and I think I have convinced myself that this is canon now. Hopeful that you will continue the fic.

Also - since I have already overcome my social anxiety to interact this much - I would just like to ask you...

Besides Daryl and Carol coming together and reuniting - what else would you like to see when it comes to Carol's arc particularly? (I think I am really excited for her to interact with new characters and form strong bonds with them - bcoz unfortunately the main show sort of failed to give us a lot of that when it came to Carol - Like I always felt like Daryl got the opportunity to build substantial relationships with a loot of other characters and Carol didn't.)

My Dear Anon!

First of all, oh my goodness, thank you for this beautiful message. I appreciate you very much for taking the time to write this.

Congratulations on acquiring the Caryl brain rot. Yay. It's a lot. Thank you for all your kind words. It makes me happy to hear that you listen to the podcast while watching the episodes. I hope it brings out more value for you on the rewatch. ❤️

Twitter can be an experience 😬 But I appreciate all the meta on Tumblr because people have more room to express their thoughts without any character limit constraints. So I hope you're able to find what you're looking for.

I love Carol and Daryl deeply. I fell in love with Daryl first, but I must admit, I fell for Carol harder — almost like Daryl did. I tumbled down like a wobbly cat and pretended it was the plan all along.

Thoughts on the general audience

The general audience doesn't have the emotional investment the core audience does. They lean on impactful stories with a healthy amount of subtext, which is where a showrunner with a clear vision, love for the characters, and creative freedom can work wonders. The rich subtext appeals to the ride-or-die audience, and the clear story hooks appeal to the GA. And an intricate storyline with a strong emotional core is important for the show's success.

TWD is well recognized even today, but the more missteps they make, the more it affects how word of mouth spreads. You want people to say, "It's a must-watch," not "It's a dying franchise." When GA says the latter, it's time for a reassessment that doesn't lean on recycling stories for fan favourite characters like Carol and Daryl.

The spinoff has a bright future in the right hands because Carol and Daryl have strong roots in the flagship show. A showrunner who can recognize the goldmine on their hands will know precisely how to position and leverage it. We need an emotionally indulgent narrative and explicit storytelling (sprinkled with some badass moments) to move this show into a bright future. They have an in-built audience and can pull more viewers if the cards are played right. I just hope they make the right call.

And by "the right call" I mean I hope they give us a cathartic canon moment for Daryl and Carol. I want it to be explicit, indulgent, and undeniable.

Saudade

You're reading Saudade? 🙈 Aww thank you. I haven't abandoned it, I promise. The podcast takes up a lot of my time so it's difficult to make time for it. But I will continue it and finish it. ❤️ Thanks so much for reading. I tried to make it as canon compliant as possible while maintaining the integrity of the characters involved so you feel like you're watching the show in your mind's eye. So I'm glad you were able to "see" what I was trying to do.

Carol's arc

Many story nodes were left unresolved for Carol. Some are about Daryl, but many link back to losing Sophia. I love the idea of a deep exploration of Carol's psyche. Melissa's creative input helps, but I hope her vision for Carol is allowed to flourish because it will feel disjointed if things change in post-production.

As I've mentioned many times on the podcast, I love the idea of Carol having more female friendships — more friendships in general — so we can see the difference in the way she interacts with her friends and the way she interacts with Daryl.

🥹 Thank you for your courage and vulnerability. I appreciate you very much. Don't be a stranger! My askbox is always open.

I hope this space is kind to you. ❤️

[shana-silver-fox]

The Moulin Rouge connection…

So we all thought the title of Episode 2 would have Caryl at the club, yet no club at all.

But now that we know about Tinkyl 😐 They heavily leaned into that fairy connection.

In Moulin Rouge the Green Fairy 🧚 is absinthe. Absinthe causes hallucinations, visual impairment, and cognitive impairment. 😳 IzzyTink is literally fucking up Daryl’s head! Like she’s drugged him and Carol will be his detox. The nun is literally a roofie. 😬 which is what it was advertised as back in the day.

More fun

Absinthe comes from the Wormwood flower

Wormwood symbolizes bitterness 😂 it’s the flower of the ABC spite shippers!

[katyspersonal]

Let's play a game "Is this Laurence or Micolash?"

- Has an underground jail cell in their organization

- Works with Pthumerians somehow

- Has an ally in a really cool hunter who is also a boss of his unique hunters (Ludwig and Archibald respectively)

- His hunters "blend into night" (Black Church and Yahar'gul respectively)

- Has a ritual beckoning Paleblood Sky

- That was done by taking a cord of an aborted baby

- Even their associated Caryll Rune has a similar symbolism

- A whole mini town is killed off because of him

- "I won't tarnish what Willem taught me" *fucks everything up*

- Has a funny little sidekick that guards his secrets even after "death" (Brador and Rom respectively)

- Has someone that used to work for them but now wishes to unveil their secrets (Simon and Damian respectively)

- Edgar (Edgar)

- Yamamura likely sneaked on him (he is a summon in both Research Hall and Yahar'gul)

- Was the best Byrgenwerth scholar

- Is currently in the Nightmare Realm

- People keep saying how pathetic he is during his boss battle yet totally died several times to him lol