#cartoon discussion

[aryesdanger24]

[boomfam]

So like... in the LMK universe, is "demon" a slur?

Cuz we see that in the shadowpeach argument flashback, that Wukong got super offended when Macaque called him an "obsessive demon."

And later, Peng said to Nezha "let the demon child come out to play" and it definitely sounded like they were insulting him.

But like, Wukong and Nezha are both celestial beings. And Princess Iron Fan used to be a celestial warrior. But then she supposedly became... a demon??

Like, how does it work??? Does an angel become a demon once they become a "fallen angel" like PIF? Cuz DBK seems to wear that label like a badge of honor.

(Cuz didn't Azure imply that all of the brotherhood used to be celestial warriors until they left and supposedly became "demons"?)

(Side question, what exactly does that make Redson? Is he half demon half celestial? Or is he fully demon/celestial depending on his morality?? Cuz he has his own way to get into the celestial realm. Plus he seemed okay asking Nezha for help so idk..)

[borgerking22]

Ranting ig

The other day, I came across a tiktok vid from Butch Hartman drawing a request for an aged up Danny Fenton. Although I don't give 2 fs about the creator and find his color choices awful, I noticed he drew Danny with a beard. This reminded me of Ben Tennyson. It seems like the easiest technique to make a male character look older is just to slap a beard on their face which I find annoying.

The design was so damn ugly too 😭😭

[themostfinalofpams]

We’re on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeart, as well as my YouTube channel! Come check out the one and only Powerpuff Girls/JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure recap and discussion podcast!

[hinamikyoukachan]

🧡🤎💚

[gin-juice-tonic]

So, for Starters: Book Of Bill Spoilers warning. Another opinion from me below. (Here's my first opinion I shared, if you havent seen it) This new one is about the lost journal pages again, of course.

Originally, I wanted to make a super big crazy essay about all the reasons I think the journal pages in BOB (The Book of Bill’s given name) are fake, and show off my super-cool totally completely sound deductive reasoning techniques in the process.  

Unfortunately, knowing myself I’m not sure I’m actually capable of accomplishing such a feat. You all know how I tend to post things in parts, sometimes out of order, often never finished. However I would like to share something in particular that’s been eating at me that I’ve seen… partially discussed, but only partially. And certainly not the part that I would like to discuss. 

It’s about the rats.

You know, the rats.

I saw these rats being talked about since before I was even able to have a look at the book myself. 

But before I get further into it all, I would like to start off with a joke: 

Why did dead rats, eggnog, a land orca, shrimp colors, It’s a Small World After All, and an Anti-Cipherite Suit cross the road? 

Well, that’s easy. To get to the other side. 

Of the book, that is. 

If you’re anything like me, you probably skipped right to the journal pages upon contact with the book. And if you’re even MORE like me, you were probably left a little confounded by them. Not only did they seem… wrong somehow. But they also felt random. Full of odd choices of subject that didn’t make a lot of sense. Could these pages really have come from journal 3? If so, why do parts of them feel so… completely out of context? 

And this is where the rats come in. As I mentioned before, I saw many people discussing them. In particular, they were noting their connection to this passage from earlier in the book:

Many of the related discussions also felt odd to me. Though I lacked the knowledge to be able to articulate why at the time. UNTIL, I read the book for myself from start to finish. That's when I realized something:  This is not the only time something from earlier in the book connects back to the journal pages. In fact, it happens many, many times throughout the earlier passages. (Here is a small collection of them for your perusal.)

And then it started clicking into place. The reasons the pages felt like they were so abnormally out of context… is because they WERE lacking context!

Now, before you can finish saying “Gin, you’re an idiot.” I would like you to ponder these three questions: 

1) Why, if these pages were taken from Journal 3, should they require context from outside of it to be able to be completely understood?

2) Why is it that this context can be found in what Bill Cipher has been writing in the preceding passages up till now? 

3) If you put food in a mogwai’s mouth at midnight EST but drive it over the CST time zone line back to 11PM before it can swallow, will it still transform into a gremlin? 

Okay, you caught me, that third one is unrelated. But the first two I believe require further thinking. So let’s delve a little further into the idea. Consider this the real third question: 

3) Are we to seriously believe that these, the only pages of J3 still lost to us, just so happen to tie into the new topics from the rest of the Book of Bill over and over like this?  

And since you’ve done so well thinking thus far, I’ll ask a fourth question: 

4) Are you aware of the concepts of Watsonian and Doyalist analysis? 

Assuming you don’t and you won’t google it, I’ll skip to the important part. Watsonian analysis is to analyze a story from within it, as if you yourself were Watson making deductions in a Sherlock Holmes novel.  

Now, from a Watsonian point of view, what happens when we try to answer our earlier questions? Why should it be that the Book of Bill provides so many of these points of reference to the journal pages? 

One possible line of thought could be that Bill wrote the earlier passages of his book *around* the idea of what was contained in the pages, but I think this doesn’t work for a few reasons. For one thing, the purpose of the book is to get the reader to make a deal, not to take a whole novel to set the stage for a 3 day mini Ford adventure. For another, not all of what I described prior is really fit to be called “context”, is it? The rats, the “Small World” cassette, and the Bill-Suit are one thing, but Eggnog? Shrimp colors? Land Orcas? I certainly wouldn’t define them that way. If anything, they’d be better suited to being called “references”. And unlike the more contextual ideas, there’d be no real need for Bill to sneak mere references to the pages into his grand story.  And lastly, there are a great deal of Bill pages that have nothing to do with the content in the journal pages at all.

So what exactly am I trying to say here? 

If we do intend to think of the callbacks outlined above as references, the only logical conclusion within the story is that the journal pages themselves are referencing back to the Book of Bill, not the other way around.

But… how? And why? Something Ford has written in the 80’s shouldn't be able to reference something Bill is writing post-weirdmageddon certainly. 

That’s because “Ford” isn’t referencing it at all!

And as for why… Well, have you ever noticed when you're writing a story on the fly, things you wrote earlier all come crashing back to you as you try to wrap things up? I believe personally that the journal pages are nothing more than a strange endcap on Bill’s crazy train of thought! And the "references" are just fuel that further the pages creation. Almost as if, to quote someone much more knowledgeable than me on this subject…

In the end, all I've described above (as well as other aspects of the pages I've not mentioned here) leave me with the impression the pages are not real.

As I stated only a bit earlier, the idea that these pages, the only pages of J3 purported to be lost, should be so connected to the rest of the book is beyond coincidence to me. Not to mention that in order to take these pages as total truth, you must give credence to several other passages of Bill's book as well. And I'm not too keen on having to trust him that much.

To all who have read this far, even to those who may have scoffed at the ideas in here or think I've only written up nonsense. Thank you for reading and considering my thoughts.

I am not saying anyone must agree with me on this. I know some people have found the pages to be important and meaningful to them, and I do not wish to give the impression that I think my view is the end all be all correct one, or that I think lesser of those who believe in them. I only want to share my own opinions. And to anyone else who found the pages to feel "off" somehow, possibly validate their feelings too.

[mollysunder]

I have a problem with the idea of a Jinx redemption arc. It's not that I have any issue with the fact that Jinx will be viewed as a hero to the people of Zaun. It's pretty obvious Jinx would be admired, she did a thing the people of Zaun wanted en masse for a long time. The thing about Jinx being the savior of Zaun is that it isn't really a redemption arc, because that's still just Jinx being militantly opposed to Piltover, a thing she always has been.

My problem is that the insistence that Jinx NEEDS to have a redemption arc takes away from the larger complexity of Arcane's worldbuilding. What does Jinx have to apologize for in order to be redeemed? Why is there so much emphasis on Jinx's character specifically to rectify her wrongs? And the way the fandom often defines Jinx's wrongdoings centers around a vague discomfort in her acts of violence and general instability.

What does it look like for Jinx to be "good", when the actions of many well-intentioned characters that the audience has an easier time being morally-aligned with either generates very little benefit or actual harm? No one in the cast sans Jinx and Silco have taken the material steps (as controversial as they may be) to deal with the problem that is Piltover, and Piltover has always been THE problem for Zaun.

The concept of a redemption arc for Jinx is so backwards because it asks Jinx as an individual to do "better" when it should be demanded of Piltover instead. How do you live to a standard that makes you morally good when the environment around you necessitates violence as it's own form of capital?

Sidenote: This all leads to the one real worry I have about Jinx and Ekko's inevitable partnership. Ekko is the character the showrunners treat as a guiding light in Zaun, which unfortunately makes Ekko an agent of the showrunners' biases. Case in point, Ekko's friendship with Heimerdinger, the architect of Zaun's despair.

If Jinx and Ekko team up, there's a chance she'd up end up working with Heimerdinger too. And it's like, "C'mon, really????"

[deanpinterester]

hello! i haven't seen anyone on my dash talk about Lebanon yet so i thought i'd bring it up in case there are those who don't know:

as of Sept 24th, more than 500 are killed and hundreds more are injured from airstrikes and bombings (CTV article linked here for further reading).

no doubt more info on how to help will come out (or probably already have) but for starters i've donated to Doctors Without Borders / Medicins Sans Frontieres (Canadian website linked but they're available in other countries as well) and hopefully anyone who is able can donate too.

[owlphibiaisthebest15]

Hi guys! I want to talk about a minor problem I have with Amphibia and how they could've been done better. I will not be talking about any of the big problems that people have already complained about, like Sasha and Marcy's lack of screentime, their character arcs, parents, nobody talking about Marcy after "True Colors", yada yada yada, because we don't need another post like that, and I want to keep this overdue rant as short as possible. This is based on my personal opinions along with a few others, but feel free to disagree with me if you want. But with further, let us begin...

Anne almost always gets way too easily forgiven for f*cking up.

Okay! This one may be a hot take because I have never seen another person complain about this. But this has been eating me away for MONTHS, and if no one else is going to say it, then I will. While this occasionally extends to some other characters depending on the episode. The one I want to talk about most is Anne. Now, at the start of the series, Anne was pretty much a jerk with a heart of gold. She was selfish, bratty, lazy, and irresponsible, but she did learn from the mistakes that she made and became a true hero by the end of the series. While some of these flaws and mistakes are not worth talking about, there are still others that are actually worse than what the show's narrative portrays them to be.

They may not be as bad as leading a toad army to invade the capital city, burying the only thing that could get Anne home, or sending your friends to another world on purpose. Anne has still made some pretty questionable decisions, even to the point where they often cross the line.

Here's a list of some of the worst things Anne Boonchuy has ever done from Season 1 and 2:

Breaking Hop Pop's favorite cane that also happens to be a keepsake of his father and grandfather all while making fun of him.

Manipulating Sprig into taking Bessie the family Snail on a Joyride without reading. Which is like someone taking a car out for a spin without a driver's permit.

Forcing Sprig to marry Maddie despite his obvious discomfort for Pizza Dough and later forces him to date Ivy while he's still engaged to Maddie.

Faking being sick to get out of farm duty, which led the Plantars getting sick themselves and even thought they were all going to die from red leg.

Slacking off while she was supposed to be protecting the frozen townsfolk, while aware of what happens to one of them while they're frozen. Which, of course, led to Polly almost getting eaten by a giant weasel.

Causes massive property damage with Polly while on the streets of Newtopia, and later breaks into Newtopia University in hopes of finding a rad college party. The second one was Polly's idea, but Anne had no problem going along with it.

A team effort along with her frog family. Sending a giant chicken to attack Wartwood. Which BTW can create tornadoes, breathe fire, and even turned their loved ones into stone, all because they forgot to buy everyone gifts. Sure, Anne was against the idea, but she still went along with it.

What do characters usually respond with when Anne admits her mess ups?! "It's okay! You're good! What you did was serious, but it doesn't matter that we almost died, as long as you learned your lesson."

Though Anne still at least got a lot better, as the worst things she's done in Season 3 were covering up some major plot points from her parents, robbing a museum to get a clue on how to find a way back to Amphibia, and tricking Blair the Balloonist into flying a hot air balloon. Though, the first one is still a little f*cked up, but she did have selfless reasons for doing these, and she came clean for 2/3 of these.

But still, 90% of this show is just a lighthearted slice of life cartoon, but when it shifts to its dark story driven and plot twisting side, this is where the narrative (and by some extent Anne herself) gets pretty hypocritical. It's pretty much when Anne messes up and lies to other characters. It's a simple error in judgment. But when other main characters such as Sasha, Marcy, and even Hop Pop do the same to her, first they gotta face hell for it, and then they get their redemption arc.

Yes! They did do some serious sh*t, and Anne had a right to be mad at them. But it seems that other characters are just not allowed to even stay mad at Anne when she does pretty similar sh*t. I mean, yes, she does try to make up for it, and yes, she admits what she's done most of the time, and eventually, she does become a better person from them. But so have Hop Pop, Sasha, and Marcy. But again, they didn't get the protagonists treatment. They got hurt and thrown around like ragdolls because of one or two big mistakes, and even that wasn't enough.

While Anne sometimes faces some consequences for her actions, like breaking Hop Pop's heirloom cane with HP giving her dish duty for a month (Cmon man! You should've given her way more than that!), gets banned from an arcade because she threatened to eat newt kids for cutting in line (which is not important), and most importantly, gets stranded in Amphibia after being peer pressured by her friends to shoplift it, all on her 13th birthday. Which I guess was enough for karma itself to feel so bad for her that she will hardly ever worry about facing any lasting consequences for her misdeeds ever again. While karma beats the cr*p out of others who would dare lie and betray our precious protagonists, even when they have sympathetic reasons for doing so.

Speaking of, this leads to me to clarify something that some fans have misinterpreted since the beginning of the series. The flashback scene in the second episode, "Best Fronds," was intended to show where Anne's distorted views on friendship and some of her toxic traits come from. Not to justify every single bad decision Anne has ever made, like what some fans think.

While I'm not gonna say that Anne was just as bad as Sasha before Amphibia, as it does show that Anne had her own personal flaws that she had to get through without depending on her friends. Who were more enabling her flaws than causing them.

However, while the show does try to show that Anne wasn't exactly much better in their friend dynamic than they were. For the reasons I mentioned earlier, it instead paints Anne as the least toxic one or not being toxic at all. With them only making a handful of moments that show that even after their betrayals, Anne still isn't much better than them. But the usual wacky slice of life narrative in her character development episodes downplays the severity of her actions, with Anne only just getting an emotional lesson after nearly getting everyone killed, and some of the said lessons being brought up in a few episodes to test her character or as examples to show others how much she has grown.

Now, I'm going to do some comparisons between Amphibia and The Owl House. While there are several things that Amphibia did better than TOH and about an equal amount of things TOH did better than Amphibia. One of those things that The Owl House did better than Amphibia was the writers treating each and every character fairly. The characters make mistakes and learn from them without the narrative downplaying the seriousness of their mistakes, and it isn't always "Okay! You're forgiven! What you did was serious, but it doesn't matter that we almost died. You learned your lesson, and that's what matters." While it doesn't give other characters the short end of the forgiveness stick for doing similar sh*t. With that, it also makes the character arcs a little bit better, in my opinion.

However, I'm not saying that Anne's character development was bad or that Matt Braly is treating Anne like how some see Alex Hirsch did with Mabel. The show did alright with changing a bratty teenager with flawed views of friendship into a true and selfless hero. All of what I described seems to what TV Tropes would call "Protagonist Centered Morality," and if I'm being honest, but because of that reason, I don't find Anne to be the most appealing character to me. I'm sorry! I know that a lot of you love her, and she's the second most popular character in the show; with the first being Marcy (my favorite), but I don't even dislike her either. I just feel that the narrative could've done better in treating the characters more fairly, like how TOH did with their characters. I really want to like Anne more than I do now, but for what I described, it makes it kinda hard for me to.

That's it for my opinions on this. This was longer than I thought, so if you read it this far or read it at all. You either think that I have a point and should do more of this or my analysis stinks, and I should never speak my dumb mind again. I'll probably see how this goes either way. If anybody else here still cares about this show.

[ash-and-starlight]

you’ve probably gotten a lot of asks like this, but I just haven’t seen any posted. what are your feelings on the remake, if you are watching it? more specifically, what do you think was the biggest problem with it?

i rlly havent actually! i think it's bc im really trying to Pretend I Do Not See It. rn i'm fighting TOOTH AND NAIL against the temptation to hatewatch because i do not need that in my life lmao.

the thing i cannot get over with is how Cheap it looks, it rlly smells of poor rushed workers to me, despite the astronomical budget that went into it. 15 MIL!!??? same as the late seasons of game of thrones!! now i'm not saying GoT is a pinnacle of virtue but it featured: a really good burn scar make up that took up half a character's face, a really good Notorious white hair wig with intricate hairstyles, really good costumes and heavy winter furs, really good location and fantasy beasts cgi and ummmmmmm from what i've seen of natla well. it had nothing of the sort. it's just bad gary it's uglyy

[paradoxengine]

No one told me The Dragon Prince S6 came out two months ago so I was watching it now, just finished Episode 3 and uh...

Rayllum girlies, did we lose?

[hexjulia]

fandom discourse often reminds me of some of the worst medieval theological debates. not in content but in spirit and vibe.

[vixymix101]

Why Bluey x Jean-Luc Works

So! Sense I've been in a Blueluc mood as of late, I'd like to make an extensive post on why I love this pairing, and why it works so well!

(Please note this is my personal opinion, and isn't meant to attack or shame other shippers who don't ship this pairing!)

Now! Let's begin!

First off, where did this pairing even begin?

Blueluc started after Jean-luc's first debut in the episode, Camping. His first and only major role in the show-- but this single episode was enough to spark one of the most popular ships in the Bluey fandom!

The first thing we learn about Jean-luc is that he speaks French and cannot understand English, but despite this language barrier, it doesn't deter these two from playing together and instantly hitting it off! They immediately start to connect without even understanding a word of what the other is saying.

It's just the fact that they connect and bond so fast and become such close buddies in such a short time span, if they get along that well in just a few days, who knows how much further their relationship could go and grow if they were able to spend more time with eachother.

A thing to take notice is we see the two build a little make-shift hut, and to me, feels like a metaphor of building a home together. Now it could be reachy but it's definitely something to take note of! They made something special together, something only for them.

But that isn't the only thing I'd like to point out--

Second case in point-- the touches--

These two are already so comfortable holding hands and making physical contact even after, what? A day or two? For most people it can take a few weeks, even months or years to be this comfortable with physical contact like this-- now yes, they are kids and kids usually don't really care but even so, it's still a big leap even for people their age--

Plus, it's just so adorable-- look at them!! Little bbys!! Holding hands!!

Another thing I'd love to point out is the tree and how it's a metaphor of their growing relationship.

While I could be reaching with the building-a-home metaphor, this one is undeniable meant to be a visual representation of their relationship with eachother, as it holds such a large role in the episode, but I'll go more into detail later after it's done growing!

For now, let's take a moment to point out why they get along so well, and how it'd work for any romantic relationship that may form for their future.

As we all know, Bluey is a bit bossy when she plays games with other kids-- that trait likely stems from the fact that she's a Heeler, a herding dog, which could explain why she feels the need to take charge.

And not to throw shade, but her personality type just doesn't mesh well with someone like Mackenzies-- they're both hard headed, stubborn and feel the need to take charge when they can. That headstrong attitude just wouldn't work well for a serious relationship.

But it does work for someone like Jean-luc, who was more than happy to follow along with her games, simply just wanting to play and have fun, not even being told what to do-- just saw that Bluey was collecting sticks and went to help her and play with her.

I'm not saying that he's a "follower" by any means, but I am saying is that he's willing to accommodate with her, a true gentleman I must say! Just a wittle sweetie!

(Plus again, they got so close so quickly and easily--)

And that's not to say Bluey doesn't do the same in return! Again, she can get pretty bossy when she plays, so I think it's worth pointing out how well she handled the minor miscommunications she has with Jean-luc is a pretty big thing for her-- instead of getting upset at Jean-luc or stop playing with them because they can't understand eachother, she instead shrugs it off, and comes up with a way where they can both understand eachother via the drawing on the rock!

She was willing to think of a different way to communicate and get over their misunderstanding so Jean-luc could get it. Most people don't do that, especially for someone they've only known for around a week--

Now, let's talk about THIS scene, now this? This just simply broke my heart on first watch, and even harder on rewatches--

It truly amazes me how they fit so much genuinely good chemistry between two characters in the span of a single episode that most shows can't even do in the span of 2 seasons--

The writers truly out did themselves, there's a good reason so many people cry at this scene and after--

Speaking of after! The time skip!

Now ik many debate if this scene is even canon but there isn't any indicator it isn't a flash forward, so I'd say it very much happened.

Now remember that tree I was talking about earlier? Here's where we pick up where that left off--

It shows that their relationship stayed strong even when they were apart, the tree fully grown and in bloom, symbolizing how their relationship only grew with time, even as they got older.

It's one of my favorite aspects about the episode, and my favorite piece of symbolism for these two.

I could go on and on about them and why their relationship just simply works, but I think just simply watching the episode will do all the talking for me-- that and the fact this is the most popular ship in the fandom lol--

But I think I've made all my points clear! If you'd like to discuss further, go for it!

Thank you for reading!

[corviiids]

strong opinions on takes of the 'could this character defeat kira' variety

[matt0044]

Why are Critical communities a persistent thing? Is it not... weird to just hate, hate, hate all the time?

Well... the weirdness does make sense when you realize the real reason these communities form is because, well, they're friends with each other. Through the anger and vitriol they send to those who like the show, they find company in those who share their views.

Like what might've started out as fans nitpicking like fans always will morphed into something else when the show "betrayed" them because... well, insert any given anti-show talking point here. People hate to be alone and miserable because that leads to self-reflection they don't want to face.

Thus when a subreddit's worth of fans are speaking up all at once and find each other, they take solace in that they are not alone. They cling to that. To them, their "people" are what make bitching about a show they should really disengage from worthwhile.

So they keep on hating and being stubborn towards any opposing readings of the show that clash with their uncharitable takes. Because they fear it means the friend groups they have will dissolve.

[cartoonsbrainrot]

Does anyone remember Sonic Underground?

Growing up, I used to be obsessed with it. The songs were bangers and I won't accept anything else.

Not to mention, I kinda had (honestly, still have) an obsession with the whole "missing parents" trope.

It's such a shame it was canceled (and that comic issue that had the "ending" was trash, don't bother reading it).