#carol daryl ask

[okamirayne]

Hi Rayne-chan! ❤ Thank u for answerinf the Richonne and Daryl Qs I sent you. I admit I'm a fan of Darol (╥︣﹏᷅╥) so was like NOOO but I get what you mean with 'will they won't they' and dragging it out. I'm still holding on! ( ✿˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅ ) But I wd be cool if he got with Connie too! Not fan of Isabelle (probably because she keeps Daryl away from home! haha.) Thank you for taking Qs on characters in fandoms. I get scared to ask or share thoughts on ships sometimes. Thanks for answering (◍•ᴗ•◍)❤

Wey! Hey again, TWD-fan! 🥰

Hope my response finds you well, dear.💜

Thank u for answerinf the Richonne and Daryl Qs I sent you.

Aw. No problem. Cheers for the interesting ASKS, luv!

I admit I'm a fan of Darol (╥︣﹏᷅╥) so was like NOOO but I get what you mean with 'will they won't they' and dragging it out. I'm still holding on! ( ✿˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅ )

Hell yeah. Go down with your ship, right? I totally respect and celebrate your right to fangirl over Darol even if it's not a ship I'm onboard with (anymore) for reasons I stated in my last response. But who the hell cares, right? It's literally just an opinion. I can totally appreciate why the Darol ship is still sailing strong regardless of my thoughts on the pairing. So you ship, ship, ship away, my dear!💕 The showrunners are giving you major wind for your sails.

Please never be like "noooo". You do you! I'm mature enough (and rational enough) to be of the mindset that we don't all have to agree on ships to happily sail the Fandom Sea together. I think it's great you still love the Darol pairing. Just because I don't vibe with it anymore doesn't mean I don't recognise or accept/appreciate that other people absolutely love it. I said the same thing for the Richonne pairing, which got the standard deranged identitarian reaction from the usual bad faith actors (which is sad) as I celebrate that people enjoy different pairings: a notion that a lot of people within fandoms sadly seem incapable of grasping nowadays, and for the most absurd and nefarious reasons. I mean hell...

But I wd be cool if he got with Connie too!

Ha. You and me both, luv.

Not fan of Isabelle (probably because she keeps Daryl away from home! haha.)

HA! Totally legit point. I can see why that would grind your gears. It got mine spinning in interesting directions. But hey, Darol fans are in for a treat right? The latest season of DARYL DIXON is hugely Carol/Daryl centred, no? (Yes, Captain Obvious here, given it's called The Book Of Carol.) There's usually a lag before it hits the UK (assuming you're on the other side of the pond!) but I'll still be giving it a watch. Either way, you lucky buggers get your fangirl treats. The rest of us poor bastards will subsist off fanfiction and/or our wild imaginations, just as the Showrunners and the good gods of storytelling intended! 🤣

Thank you for taking Qs on characters in fandoms. I get scared to ask or share thoughts on ships sometimes. Thanks for answering.

Aw, thank you for feeling chilled enough to ask me those Qs. That's important to me, because I love talking about characters and shared fandoms. Even my perceived annoyances are nothing more than a fangirl feather-ruffle or character-centred ramble of a writer who adores characters/storytelling and is just expressing a humble and different opinion, which we're all entitled to...

Which brings me onto a more serious point...

I'm so sorry (and empathetically livid) that you've felt scared to ask or share your thoughts on ships -- and yet, I can completely understand why you might feel that way (as mentioned above re: bad faith actors). Christ, I remember when people used to be able to have civil, interesting, and fun conversations regarding diverse opinions or preferences without getting pilloried or attacked. Maybe I was just lucky to engage with happy and chilled people in the past? I don't know, but it seems nowadays the fandom climate can be insanely hostile and rife with demented levels of reactivity, absurdity, immaturity, tribalism, and outright hate.

It's truly sad to see. Please know you'll never get that nasty character-assassination BS from me if you're sharing your love, or your critical analysis, of a pairing we both engage with, even if we disagree. In fact, you've got an open invitation to go ahead and share with me the reasons why you personally love Darol 🥰 even though I don't ship them anymore. I'm invested in his character arc, so it interests me.

I enjoy when people engage in GOOD FAITH conversations and are positively and respectfully passionate about characters/ships they love, whilst respecting another fan's right to feel/think/experience the characters/story differently. Your fangirl love is safe in my forum, TWD-Fan-chan, if you can accept me sharing any contrasting perspective(s) whilst respecting your right to love your ship and sail that baby joyfully. 🫡💖

Not sure if that helps you feel a little less scared. I champion your right to share your thoughts when we talk about characters we love, and if it's really not my cuppa chai (usually if it's something I personally consider outta my wheelhouse, morally incompatible with my values, or a story/preference/character/pairing/theme that I have zero interest, enjoyment, or engagement with), I'll respectfully tell you that I'm the wrong person to serve you good interaction.

I hope you feel comfortable to engage here, sweetie, and I thank you again for taking a chance to poke your head back in. I know that so many of us are dodging the most inane bullets these days. Do no harm, take no shit. Hope you can let your guard down here and chill. Such a pleasure to hear from and respond to you again. Big love! 💖🫶🏼💖

[youmakethelight]

I need scenes where Daryl explicitly shows that he loves Carol for all of who she is as a human. I know we know it, even though that feeling has been fading since the spin-off and even in parts of season 11. But I reallyyy need at least one scene where Daryl catches Carol doing something distinctly Carol and looks at her for a *prolonged* time with unambiguous love all over his face. And then he actively shows and tells her. Like the scenes where Aaron and Rosita see Carol putting herself through pain to kill the horse to feed Alexandria. I need to know that Daryl sees that in her. And I need to see him radiate intense love in her direction because she fucking needs it.

[emeryhiro]

Do you think Carol would have continued to stay with Ezekiel had Henry not died? For me, Carol's married era in the Kingdom is a conundrum - because on the one hand, I love that she got to experience some peace and happiness after being put through the wringer both emotionally and mentally. I love that she was able to save Henry and at least partly come to peace with the fact that she was able to find and save this kid - when she has lost so many in the past (which makes it all the more heartbreaking she has go through all of that again in s10 - I love s10 but it so emotionally hard to watch as a Carol fan). But - in the second half of s9 whenever Carol is shown in the Kingdom, it feels a little wrong - like maybe she doesn't belong. She is smiling so widely and brightly - and it is so great to see her lighthearted - but something somewhere just feels off. Even her appearance - her clothes - they don't feel like her. I can't quite pinpoint it. Or I could be just looking at it through shipper goggles. Lol.

I absolutely adore your narrative breakdowns of these two. I don't have much hope for Caryl in TBOC but I am definitely looking forward to your analysis of the episodes to come.

Hi Anon 😊

Thank you so much for the kind words! They truly mean so much to me 🩵🩵🩵

I already have my thoughts/breakdown of TBOC episode 1 written up, which should be posted as soon as episode 1 is released to everyone. I honestly can't wait for everyone to see it and get everyone's thoughts on it as well.

Now, regarding your question...

This is such a good question, and I really had to think about it for a bit to be able to express my thoughts properly.

The short answer is yes, but ultimately, no. I think Carol would have stayed with Ezekiel if Henry had lived, at least for as long as they were in a good place. I know that seems like a cop-out of an answer, but I'll flesh it out a little bit.

Carol was happy enough with Ezekiel, and she would have probably continued to be with him until their situation changed and they had to go through some form of hardship as they naturally would've at some point or another in an apocalypse. Even if it wasn't for losing Henry, there would have been something else that would have pulled them apart because despite them being happy enough, their relationship lacked the depth to withstand severe adversity. They loved each other, but they weren't IN love, if you know what I mean.

If by some miracle they didn't face any hardship of any kind, then yep they probably would stay together for two main reasons (and trust me, this hurts my Caryl shipper heart to say):

Loyalty/Convenience: As we've seen, Carol is an incredibly loyal person. We don't know Ezekiel as well as we know Carol, but from what I could tell, he seems to be a very loyal person as well.

Trauma/Sacrifice: The only person that Carol would hypothetically leave Ezekiel for would be Daryl. But both Carol and Daryl have experienced way too much trauma to actually come clean about their feelings, not unless something huge happened to push them to do so. Daryl would never ever think he's good enough for Carol, or that he could make her happy compared to how Ezekiel appeared to make her. And Carol would feel the exact same way about Daryl, and she'd also be content with (as you said) the peace and happiness of staying with Ezekiel because she would never think she deserved anything better than that.

Ultimately, the perfect circumstances that would have kept Carol and Ezekiel together are near impossible in the world they live in. Starting a family with Ezekiel and Henry definitely helped Carol heal from some of her past trauma with Ed and Sofia, but ultimately the deeper traumas and wounds that she had yet to face and heal from (as she will in TBOC) would have never healed if she stayed with Ezekiel. They would have eventually been naturally pulled apart because neither is made for the other.

I also think that Carol always sensed/knew that her relationship with Ezekiel had an expiration date, and she had probably prepared for that inevitable end from the start of the relationship, while Ezekiel on the other hand, was less willing to accept that their relationship was at its end when Carol tried to return the ring in S9EP16.

Regarding Caryl...

I honestly don't blame you for not having much hope for Caryl, especially with all the mixed messages being sent around with the current publicity campaign. And I'm not sure if this will mean anything or change anything for you, but I'm personally still confident that canon is where we're heading. And as I've said in my previous posts, especially in the summary section of my last one (here), it makes sense (at least to me) for them to wait until season 3 to finally make Caryl officially canon.

I'm just gonna fangirl here for a second, but I believe (since the first time I saw them 12 years ago) that Carol and Daryl are soulmates, and I don't just mean platonic soulmates, but soulmates in every sense of the word. So, in my mind, based on all the evidence I've seen, one way or another, they will be together in the end. But like I said, that's in my mind. The final outcome for Caryl depends on Norman and Melissa's vision for the characters, which I understand may not align with mine, but I trust that no matter what they end up giving us, it's still gonna be a fantastic story ♡

~~~~

Thank you again for the really interesting question ♡♡♡ I hope my answer made sense and got my thoughts across properly.

I can't explain how excited I am about TBOC and seeing Carol and Daryl in the same frame again. ONLY 19 DAYS TO GO!! 🥰🎉

[my-mt-heart]

What Makes Caryl's Romance Organic

By organic, I mean it's a natural path for Daryl and Carol to take as characters and their explicit canon is fully supported by the writing in the flagship show.

The seeds have been planted. We got to see the genesis of their bond when Daryl made it his mission to find Carol's lost little girl, and we watched it grow in "real time" as the overarching story progressed. We saw intentional, suggestive beats like Daryl massaging Carol's shoulder on top of the bus, Carol openly flirting as she tried to reclaim her sexuality after Ed, Daryl's jealousy of "the king," the visual and emotional parallels between Carol and Leah, Carol's dream of being married to Daryl, and I could go on.

By watching their interactions with each other over the course of 11 seasons and perhaps also differentiating them from their interactions with other characters, it's easy to assert that these two broken souls relied on each other not just for survival in the ZA, but for emotional fulfillment. Every character wants something, and in this case we were shown time and time again how much Daryl and Carol desire each other, though not just in a superficial way. After surviving abuse and loss and tragedy, they've come to represent each other's light at the end of the tunnel.

Daryl: What do you want?

Carol: A man of honor.

Judith to Daryl [looking at Carol]: You deserve a happy ending too.

Our investment deepened as the relationship deepened, and we could anticipate where it was eventually going to lead if we kept following along, reading the subtext and analyzing the symbols (the Cherokee rose, the jasper stone, the double capper). The longer that anticipation builds, the more essential the payoff becomes.

In contrast, when we have no expectations for a pairing and they go canon "out of the blue," it's quite possible the purpose of it was shock value. Not that the audience can't still get invested, but as we say in the screenwriting world, it hasn't been earned. Instead of building up to a moment of relief and joy (Finally! I knew it!), it often requires a lot of backfilling, finding moments between the two characters that could be used to rationalize the writers' choice and create the illusion that it was always planned when it wasn't. People will either buy it or they won't.

One thing no writer can control is acting chemistry, and McReedus? They've got it. A lot of it. Any good writer would lean into that, not force them to pull back because when they do that and they're undermining the story that's already being told, the audience will feel cheated. Hence, why so many people hated Carol's line "it'll be good for us [to go our separate ways]" in the finale.

The Book of Carol is the opportunity for AMC and co. to deliver on their "promise" to Caryl fans by giving them explicit, undeniable, canon. Again, when you make them wait over a decade, that Finally! moment has to be well worth it.

[paledarklight]

Why do you hate Carol? She's the best and Daryl can't live without her.😆

Ew that's gross, no he can very much live without her . I'm not going to engage because you obviously want to fight.

EVERYONE, THIS IS WHAT I MEAN THEY LITERALLY COME TO US TO START SHIT

DO I GO TO CAROL PAGES? NO

Do they come to us and start fights, as you can see , yes they do.

[indigoraysoflight]

tempted to ask for one of the dirty prompts but to spite myself, how about 23?

CARYL pls

Hey there nonny, here you go <3

23. vintage

It was the cabin all over again.

Carol felt the tension between them wrap around her spine like a taut string as they walked inside the dilapidated building to camp out for the night. It was the first time they were alone. Really alone. Without people muttering around them in French with questioning glances, and suspicious prying eyes following their every move. Daryl hadn't left her side since they reunited a few days ago – he simply clasped her hand and led her inside without a word to his French companions.

They'd held each other so desperately when she found him - his face was pressed into the crook of her neck, his fingers dug deep welts in her jacket, and his arms clutched her so close that she felt his heaving breaths right down to the tips of her toes.

His warmth lingered on her perpetually as she kept finding ridiculous excuses to touch him. She felt ashamed of her weakness, but losing him for all this time had made her fear worse. So her arms lingered on his sides when he checked her after a fight; she leaned into him as they walked, brushed against his fingers when she handed him his crossbow, or traced his face every time she checked his head wound and watched him stare at her lips longingly.

Even though everything ached at that look.

Her tears blurred her vision when his eyes roamed her face every spare moment they had together. He'd hesitate for a long moment before brushing them with his thumbs, and pressing his forehead to hers until it was time to keep moving again.

But the deep yearning for each other's warmth had evaporated into thin air the moment they were on this path by themselves. Reality kicked in as days passed, and she saw how different he looked here, how at ease he was with the terrain and the people.

It reminded her of the days after the cabin when she didn't know exactly where she fit into his life. As the distance between them grew, and his hesitance to approach her got stronger – an unexpected spark of sadness followed her.

They found a large, empty room in the building for the night. The floors were crusted marble, an old charred fireplace against a wall with a stack of wood that looked untouched for years, and a rusty bronze chandelier covered in cobwebs smashed in the corner. The walls were all crooked chunks of brick and plaster cracked away with time. Two long windows on either side of the fireplace filtered the dying light in the room.

She turned her back to him and removed her gun, coat, and jacket. There was a rustle of fabric behind her as he did the same. She unrolled their bedrolls and sat with her back against the wall as he knelt down and lit a fire. He reached into his pocket to draw a box of matches when a tiny brown wooden box fell out, rolled across the floor, and clattered against her right foot.

Carol lifted it to find a crude etching of a flower on top of it, she turned it in her hand as he stoked the flames. He chewed his lip and looked at the box, then back up at her. His hair was soft gold in the firelight with threads of silver peeking through it.

"What's this?" The box rattled as she turned it upside down.

"Open it." He sat with his back against the wall, a few feet away from her.

The box unscrewed, and sitting inside was a tarnished silver Jasper ring. It looked about a hundred years old, with soft ochre and black spots forming around the knots on the sides, the crevices, and the rim of the dotted silver bubbles around the textured green Jasper stone in the middle.

"A ring?" Carol furrowed her brow.

"It's a Jasper ring." Daryl's voice was soft, taking her back to another time when he'd used it to tell her a story. "Heard a long time ago that Jasper helps give you the courage to face hardships and strengthens bonds between loved ones that are gone."

She traced the knots on either side of the ring. "Celtic knots," Daryl moved closer and tentatively touched one. "That there is a love knot, a sign of love shared between two people."

Their eyes locked for one searing moment, his eyes lingering on her lips, tears glistening on his lashes. His lips were chapped and dry, he swiped them with his tongue before looking down at his hands. Carol turned back to the ring.

The Jasper stone was a gradient of streaked green and bright points of soft yellow patterns, like a constellation etched in stone. Its shine had dulled over the years, it looked like it had weathered quite a few storms. She could feel Daryl's eyes on her as she twirled the ring.

"It's beautiful."

"Yeah."

She turned and saw him gazing at her softly.

"Found it in this antique shop I was camping in one night when I was alone in the early days." He leaned his head back on the wall. "Reminded me of that ring you used to wear back at the Commonwealth – the one you lost after the battle."

"Is that why you kept this ring?" Carol hated how small her voice sounded.

He nodded, "It gave me hope."

She searched his eyes quietly even though she knew he was telling the truth.

"Dunno why but I thought for as long as I held on to it, you wouldn't forget me. Let me go." Daryl's eyes were pleading. "So when I saw you again, I could give it to you."

"I'm never going to forget you, Daryl."

His exhale trembled out of him, and his eyes glistened.

Carol wiped her tears and looked down at the ring. "Why didn't you give it to me?" The words cracked around the edges.

"Didn't think you'd want it anymore."

She looked back at him. His fringe covered his face and his fingers twitched in his lap. Carol held the ring out, Daryl accepted it quietly. She locked eyes with him and held out her hand. His eyes widened briefly, and shone in the moonlight as he searched her face. She smiled at him softly, and he placed the ring on her finger.

Leaning her head on his shoulder, she swayed her hand to catch the moonlight on the yellow specks of the Jasper stone. She turned to look at his watery blue eyes to find him staring at her longingly.

"What do you think?"

Daryl's lips quirked up, "It suits ya," he said without looking away from her.

Carol's smile wilted into the raw longing she'd felt when she thought she would never find him again. She caressed his jaw and she let herself see him – all of him beneath the thin veneer he'd donned to survive in this strange land.

Her resolve cracked and tears spilled anew when Daryl made a tiny whimpering sound in the back of his throat and pressed his forehead against hers. He turned his face into her palm and pressed his lips to it, then pulled her closer so she could rest her head on his chest. A few moments later, his breathing turned into soft snores, and the raw longing she felt escaped through her lips before she could stop it.

"Should've gone to New Mexico..."

The silence that followed made the fire crackle louder. The Jasper stone glinted in its light. Carol fisted her fingers in his shirt, nuzzling into his chest and letting her tears soak into his skin as he slept.

"It's still out there." Daryl's chest rumbled beneath her ear. She looked up.

"Yeah?" Carol's voice trembled.

"Yeah." Daryl's voice was firm.

His thumb grazed her cheek and caught her tears, his hand wrapped over the ring and held onto her hers tightly.

He kissed the crown of her head, and she nuzzled back into his chest and pressed a kiss to his skin. His arms engulfed her until she was surrounded by him. Daryl. His breath tangling in her hair, his heart thrumming in her ear, his skin grazing her lips, his warmth lulling her to sleep, and his ring wrapped around her heart.

Hope was not lost.

[idkbishsss]

Isa manipulated and gaslit Daryl to get him to escort her and Laurent. She apologised later but then She then started comparing him to his abusive father saying he was like him if he leaves Laurent to go home. She takes Daryl to people who are also trying to manipulate and gaslight him to use him as a protector/soldier, like Laosang says to Daryl he shouldn't go home because his family might be dead while he was away so he should stay with them. Isa is singing the same song. They don't see Daryl as a person only a commodity. Isa starts changing her mind about Laurent being a saviour and is prepared to go to America with Daryl. I would say Isa is like Carol prepared to do anything to save Laurent and that includes what she did to Daryl and there's a thing about vilifying female complex characters. But the way they write her is dumb there is no progression and I don't know if she is just playing Daryl to keep him onside to take them to America. She is a con woman before the world ended so I don't know if she cares for Daryl really and ended up liking him while pretending to at first.

Also Daryl is spiralling and he is starting to go into dark places. He doesn't do well alone and so he just clings to nearest person. This happens to be Isa

Isa is a nun and it's not clear whether she has quit it or not. It's not respectful to nuns who face fetishism already. The other girl who has a boyfriend was a novice but it was made clear she had turned away from the church at that point. Isa keeps acting like she was still a nun so I don't know. If she just stopped and said it was done, it still kept her faith that would be fine

Hello! And thank you for explaining🙏

It was a hot minute since I saw the show. Ngl I don’t really see her as evil for this. It seems it was mainly to get Laurent safe. Which isn’t really a bad thing, what she did was a means to an end.

it is shitty of course, she had no right to do that to Daryl. But still.

I forgot she compared him to his father though😕 That makes me really not like her. (Especially because I feel like Daryl would stay for Laurent just in his own account of not feeling like him. So her saying that is so shitty😞)

But I’m ngl her acting like this, kind of adds to my point. She’s trying to get Daryl to stay there and manipulate him, it working. Which is why Daryl stays there and all this stuff is really happening😭🙏

I hope when him and Carol meet up she snaps some sense into him or something😞

(Also the vilifying of female characters pisses me off so much. Please just let me have a complex female character without her being a bad person. Cough. Maggie. What?)

I agree with your next point yeah. I still think what I’m saying is ture in my og post but it might have to now do more with Isa being like this😓 (I’m still dying on the hill that it doesn’t ruin his character. Especially if he’s being manipulated)

spoilers under for the last point:)

And the last point. I agree but I still don’t think they are TRYING to fetishize nuns. Especially because it’s Daryl who “falls in love” and Daryl who kiss her. Again it’s not clear to me that she likes him back. If she’s really manipulative Liek that then she could very well be lying. Also I would hope they’d address the issue like the did with the other (ex?) nun. (I’m Ngl idk how turning away works so I’m trying to be careful with my words here sorry)

Anyways thank you for the anon (and being so nice I was worried about hate😓 (last time I posted on this fandom…)

[angelwings-crossbowstrings]

Why do I feel like many Caryl fans are becoming toxic? I recently saw a post where they talked about how they were going to stop supporting the series if Carol and Daryl didn't become a couple and I honestly don't understand. Personally, I always saw them as a family and it would be super strange to me that they were a couple, but I understand and respect those who ship them, and if something were to happen between them I wouldn't hate the series just for not fulfilling something that I believed. I don't know, I thought we should respect the natural course that the characters take without pressuring them to do what we think is best. Both Norman and Melissa know their characters and what they feel better than we do.

-Shrugs- Who knows? I’m totally okay with however they end it, honestly, as long as both characters survive and are happy. I’ll be disappointed if they aren’t romantic but I won’t hate it in the least. I respect all the different opinions because they are just that: opinions. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

To me, Caryl embodies every aspect of their connection: friends, platonic soulmates, romantic. No matter how they end up, they are still Caryl.

Norman and Melissa have played these characters for years and know them better than anyone. They have a direct influence on the story now. I trust them and hearing firsthand how they cherish the story is uplifting to me.

Just let everyone do their thing and stay in your own happy little bubble with how you feel the story will progress. It’s the best thing to do for now.

[atopvisenyashill]

HELLO pls pls share ur aegon and carl thoughts 😭😭😭 but only if u want to..

okay because the lil fandom joke is they’re both the last man standing right? they get put through insane physical injuries - aegon suicide swan dives TWICE and lives, carl gets shot in the face - they outlive most of the other characters in the story, and live through it with cockroach like luck until the very ending of their conflicts, left physically scarred by what they’ve been through, with nothing but a daughter they can’t connect with and a world that is already forgetting about the danger & horror aegon & carl have just lived through. and before they can really figure out what the good thing to do is, the story ends.

i think there’s a lot to be said for how both of their violence is enabled as children for different reasons. obviously talking mix of shows & comics/books here but we get alicent, viserys, & criston (probably otto too tho we don’t see that as much) modeling abhorrent behavior, and rick, shane, to a lesser extent lori, all modeling Heroic Violence, then smothering aegon and leaving carl unsurpervised so when they start acting out the violent behavior they’ve had modeled, no one tries to stop it from continuing. aegon is enabled by the fuedal society he lives in, carl’s by the apocalyptic breakdown he’s living through. To see the world as Us vs Them and to react with violence at any threat to Us by Them.

the main difference here being that both lori & rick are vastly superior parents than alicent & viserys are, and carl’s violence & callousness scares the shit out of them (rightly, he’s out here murdering unarmed kids!!!) and carl is eventually in a place (like a literal place, the prison specifically) where other adults (again vastly superior parents & people than the ones aegon is with) like hershel, maggie, daryl, tyrese, and glenn, are all at least attempting to keep an eye on him while rick loses his mind and lori, ya know, dies.

but most notably, the thing that carl has that aegon doesn’t, can’t ever have, is a parent who actually parents him. carl’s saving grace, the thing that saves carl’s soul is his stepmother - obviously in the comics it’s andrea but i’ve always found the michonne/rick/carl story line in the show to be superior in this case. michonne who has all this maternal love and nowhere to put it, carl with the desperate need to be a child and no one to look after him. like, michonne literally entering the story holding baby bottles and formula so rick’s child doesn’t starve to death. rick can only trust michonne once carl gives the okay, michonne can only start to love rick once carl accepts her presence at the prison. “if you’re okay then i’m okay.” michonne has to become carl’s mother and best friend before she can become rick’s lover and partner. it has to happen in that order because even though rick is the main character, carl is his reason for existing. and michonne, already a mother, can see that. many people see carl as a tool to get to rick but only michonne sees carl as a child in need of love. but no one ever looks at aegon and sees a child in need of saving or a young adult in need of help. so while carl ostensibly gets to live in the new world and help make it better, aegon has to die because no one ever gave him the tools to ensure he could live. he doesn’t have a michonne. he can’t for the story to work.

there’s also the gender thing too - i tag carl as “carl grimes patron saint of agender children everywhere” i feel so seriously about carl the they/them. aegon’s whole life “being a force fem” but the thing is so is carl’s. aegon is the ignored daughterson being puppeted by his family forced into a marriage he doesn’t want and to have children he doesn’t want all so his family can social climb, but in order for rick grimes to be the hero of the walking dead with this world ending, all consuming, death defying love for his son, his son needs to be the damsel in distress forever. so bad shit just keeps happening to carl so rick can be the hero and rick can grow as a person and carl is beaten down over and over again-until rick has this world built on The Terrible Things He Did For Love and therefore can’t exist in this world of love, and finally carl has to live with the one brutal trauma he can never get over - his father’s death.

because carl isn’t the main character in his own story, it’s rick. and aegon isn’t the main character in his own story, it’s rhaenyra. so once rhaenyra & rick die, they have to keep going to make the tragedy go on because the tragedy is the point. they can’t even be the tragedy of their own stories! because aegon usurps his sister then is left with just a daughter he can’t name as his heir, and rick builds a haven made out of corpses to save his child only for someone else’s child who he orphaned to make an orphan out of carl, and now carl can’t even show his daughter his entire face out of fear and grief.

rick dies and carl’s story has to end soon after, rhaenyra dies and aegon’s story has to end soon after. they are the last man standing but they are not the main character, and they do not get to have catharsis. they just get to be over.

[lab-gr0wn-lambs]

I know I said Carol can do whatever the hell she wants, but the way she keeps saying "you should hate me. please don't hate me" instead of just "sorry" and more importantly "are you ok?" is driving me nuts

[lilgoblinbitch]

i just need someone to talk to about carol peletier 🥺

that woman is one of the most versatile and quick-witted characters in twd. she is also one of my favorite characters, because how could she not be?

when i first started watching twd, in season 1 & 2 i just remember being like “holy fuck give this poor woman a break,” i mean her husband was a sack of shit and then her daughter goes missing and turns... and then she has this immaculate character arc. i mean here's this pure, fragile woman who went from being a punching bag for her husband to a literal ass-kicking anti-hero boss ass bitch.

when i got through seasons 3 - 4, i was totally rooting for her! she was presumed dead in the beginning of season 3 but saved by daryl — which btw i have to say they are beautiful together (idk if i completely ship them but i am not against it and do love seeing them together; i’d say i’m a sideline caryl supporter rn) their friendship blossomed very quickly and i loved seeing that happen. season 4 was where carol really started to show her quick-wittedness; she killed karen and david to stop the illness from spreading in the prison. rick said himself later on (i think in like season 6) that he would’ve done the same. also during season 4, carol had to do something extremely difficult—and that was killing lizzie. she knew she had to do it, and she made sure not to let it eat her up for the rest of her life. i think that’s what i love most about carol, her strength. geez, that woman holds so much weight on her shoulders, but never fully lets it bring her down. she’s resilient.

my all time favorite carol moment was during season 5 when she blew up terminus. GODDAMN BADASS BITCH ALERT!!!! and ooohhh my god the look on rick’s face when he found out she saved them — priceless!

there are so many more epic carol moments, but if i talked about them all i would have to make a novel lol. needless to say, i can’t wait to see her on screen again with daryl. 🥹

[youmakethelight]

Just remembering that feeling of being hooked into the caryl ship when daryl asked carol what she sees when she looks at him, becoming convinced caryl is coming when carol asked about connie, seeing that Find Me is going to be about daryl and carol finding a cabin in the woods and being excited, and then seeing Leah on the porch step with Dog and being subjected to watch my man cheat on my girl for the next 40 mins

[shimmershae]

“Fine.  Don’t say anything.  Make me worry.”  (a Walking Dead drabble, Caryl).

Just some Season 11 fun they should have given us.  It’s short and silly.  

“Fine.  Don’t say anything.  Make me worry.”  

 Carol tries to keep a straight face.  Really.  But he’s oh-so-serious, equal parts adorable and obnoxious in his over-the-top concern—it’s just a minor cut, a scratch—and he’s giving grumpy Panda vibes (Judith’s words, not hers; just what in the hell is the Commonwealth school teaching them).  Neither of her real husbands ever showed half as much worry for her well-being as the fake one standing in front of her, glowering at her with soft blue eyes. Ah, the dichotomy of Daryl Dixon.

 “I’m okay, Pookie. Nothing a little kiss won’t fix.”  

[my-mt-heart]

Please, please, please share any feedback/info you get from 201. Especially in regards to the shipbaiting. Is it as bad as 106?

At least from what I've heard so far, I'm feeling pretty relieved...maybe? Somebody at Tribeca was kind enough to send me their thoughts in an ask (thank you, anon!), which I'll post with spoiler tags as soon as I can and I'm sure other fans who got to be there will be making some posts soon as well. We'll see what else trickles out in the coming days.

[paledarklight]

Hi! I’m a little confused.

I don’t want to start anything but I have a few questions:3

1. You know when Daryl and Beth meet when she’s 16? And she’s underaged throughout most of the relationship? I don’t want to hate but I didn’t know if you knew this. (Daryl is his early 40s when they meet btw) I just find that relationship weird, even in a romantic way.

2.I also saw you say something about Carol being an old creep? (I believe thats what was, correct me if I’m wrong, sorry!) But how? She’s like 3 years older than Daryl.(Both early 40s when they meet) I DONT SHIP THEM BTW. I think they are just friends:3

3.You said Carol pushes the boundaries and her relationship with Daryl, can you dumb that down for me? I read your post and wasn’t understanding. It seems more she’s trying to be good friend, and I’ve just never really seen her show interest like that? Idk, I feel like a lot of this stuff you say might just be because of the shippers and not actually canon (that sounds mean I’m sorry😕)

Just stuff I wanted to know! Also in no way I’m I trying to hate:3 I respect your opinions on not liking a ship or character. I’m not a hater of Carol or her ship with Daryl. I have a lot of criticism, but I think i have that with every character. We just have different opinions and that’s okay:3 Hope you answer this and have a lovely day!

Okay so I'm going to Correct you sweetheart.

Daryl was not in his forties but I love the way you said that as if I was wrong, it gives off saying the wrong answer in math class with your whole chest.

I'm telling you this because this has been corrected by Norman himself, Norman has said that his character is in his thirties at the start of the show.

If he is in his 40s It is by season 5 season 6 what he would probably be 39-40 and by that time best would already be in her 20s.

Yes Beth is 16 at the farm but she isn't having sex so what's the issue, he isn't courting her .

(16 is the legal age in Georgia)

And just too correct you again because I'm sure you know this but you're going to cherry pick, Rosita and Abe are roughly the same age difference, Abe was most likely in his 40s , he already had a wife and kids that left him (he most likely had anger issues before the fall )

He used Rosita.

He fucked her until new pussy came around.

Yet no one has a problem with him. Hmmm, odd.

Zac was a college student and most likely in his 20s and Beth was maybe 17 at the prison and so again

I see no one talking about that. Mmmmm.

Remember Axel. No one has ever made a hate post about his gross ass.

People like to pick and choose what couple they support.

Daryl has never once tried to be inappropriate to Beth.

He never hurt her.

He's a gentleman compared to half these creeps .

Yet he gets shit on the most.

Carol is actually most like forty unlike Daryl who I corrected you is NOT forty . Maybe you don't actually pay attention, which most people don't, they watch a TV show without doing research about it, finding out questions. Only nerds who really love the show so that

So yes she's older . And Norman's character has stated he feels like a mother and Child relationship.

Also if a man wants to he will if he really wanted to fuck her he literally would, it didn't stop Glenn and it didn't stop Rick. Nothing stands between a man and his pussy.

No I'm not just saying she has boundary issues because of propaganda, as if to imply that I'm just regurgitating hate and not because I don't have a mind of my own or eyes . I watched the show it's not like I watched a different version.

It didn't even start at the prison it was happening at the farm as well, Daryl needed space , Sofia was dead and he needed space to process what happened and Carol wouldn't give him space she kept invading his literal space, his camp site and sure you can say it was coming from a good place but seeing as it's a pattern, then no.

Second time is the prison, he's just being nice and giving her a back rub so she makes a gross pass at him to fuck around and he says no

She she then GOES ON and makes a pussy eating joke (go down first)

That's sick, you sick bitch

When someone says no that means no that does not mean keep trying. Making sex jokes AFTER someone has said no is disgusting I shouldn't have to explain why.

She's horny and Daryl is who she thinks will give her a quick fuck but he doesn't like her like that and maybe she thinks if she just pushes him he'll say yes

...

...

He doesn't.

Again I don't care, as in I can't control who you ship but don't force me to ship it.

You wanna ship Carol and fantasies about how he thinks she's attractive, great .

Do that.

Away from me

I can't control what people ship I can only voice what I like and what I don't.

I love Beth, Love Daryl.

I don't care about Carol at all, I think about her as often as I think about the poop coming out of my colon

[indigoraysoflight]

Hiiiii!!! Recently finished TWD and gotta say Carol and Daryl have given me brain rot and have taken up so much space in my head (like all I want is for those two idiots to just declare their undying romantic love for each other and kiss - so that I can get on with my life) Anyway - I am here to say that I love the work you and your friend (Laura, I believe - sorry for not tagging - new to all this) have been doing with the podcast - it has helped me discover new layers of these wonderful characters and see things from a different perspective and to appreciate them more. I have this ritual (especially for s10) where I wait for your podcast updates to rewatch the episodes every week (and oh boy - s10 is already so painful to watch - then combined with all your analysis - I think I just like torturing myself). I love both the characters individually as well. The reason I got to tracking down Caryl enthusiasts on Tumblr and Twitter is because I think you guys just have a deeper understanding of the characters individually as well. The sort of metas I see here breaking down the symbolism and stuff - its phenomenal. Unfortunately I don't think the GA has that depth of awareness about these characters - especially Carol (again just based on my experience of viewing all these reaction videos of YouTubers and reddit posts and all.) Carylers are incredibly perceptive and I am loving it.

Also I recently found out that you are the author of my favorite Caryl fic "Saudade" - The way you have written it to read like an episode on the show - with descriptions of these small minsicule moments between Daryl and Carol (the stolen glances and the yearning...the staring into each other's souls) and also the incorporation and focus on the rest of the characters that feels real - I don't know - just the whole ambiance of the fic feels canon - I just always go back to re-read it whenever I start missing these two too much - and I think I have convinced myself that this is canon now. Hopeful that you will continue the fic.

Also - since I have already overcome my social anxiety to interact this much - I would just like to ask you...

Besides Daryl and Carol coming together and reuniting - what else would you like to see when it comes to Carol's arc particularly? (I think I am really excited for her to interact with new characters and form strong bonds with them - bcoz unfortunately the main show sort of failed to give us a lot of that when it came to Carol - Like I always felt like Daryl got the opportunity to build substantial relationships with a loot of other characters and Carol didn't.)

My Dear Anon!

First of all, oh my goodness, thank you for this beautiful message. I appreciate you very much for taking the time to write this.

Congratulations on acquiring the Caryl brain rot. Yay. It's a lot. Thank you for all your kind words. It makes me happy to hear that you listen to the podcast while watching the episodes. I hope it brings out more value for you on the rewatch. ❤️

Twitter can be an experience 😬 But I appreciate all the meta on Tumblr because people have more room to express their thoughts without any character limit constraints. So I hope you're able to find what you're looking for.

I love Carol and Daryl deeply. I fell in love with Daryl first, but I must admit, I fell for Carol harder — almost like Daryl did. I tumbled down like a wobbly cat and pretended it was the plan all along.

Thoughts on the general audience

The general audience doesn't have the emotional investment the core audience does. They lean on impactful stories with a healthy amount of subtext, which is where a showrunner with a clear vision, love for the characters, and creative freedom can work wonders. The rich subtext appeals to the ride-or-die audience, and the clear story hooks appeal to the GA. And an intricate storyline with a strong emotional core is important for the show's success.

TWD is well recognized even today, but the more missteps they make, the more it affects how word of mouth spreads. You want people to say, "It's a must-watch," not "It's a dying franchise." When GA says the latter, it's time for a reassessment that doesn't lean on recycling stories for fan favourite characters like Carol and Daryl.

The spinoff has a bright future in the right hands because Carol and Daryl have strong roots in the flagship show. A showrunner who can recognize the goldmine on their hands will know precisely how to position and leverage it. We need an emotionally indulgent narrative and explicit storytelling (sprinkled with some badass moments) to move this show into a bright future. They have an in-built audience and can pull more viewers if the cards are played right. I just hope they make the right call.

And by "the right call" I mean I hope they give us a cathartic canon moment for Daryl and Carol. I want it to be explicit, indulgent, and undeniable.

Saudade

You're reading Saudade? 🙈 Aww thank you. I haven't abandoned it, I promise. The podcast takes up a lot of my time so it's difficult to make time for it. But I will continue it and finish it. ❤️ Thanks so much for reading. I tried to make it as canon compliant as possible while maintaining the integrity of the characters involved so you feel like you're watching the show in your mind's eye. So I'm glad you were able to "see" what I was trying to do.

Carol's arc

Many story nodes were left unresolved for Carol. Some are about Daryl, but many link back to losing Sophia. I love the idea of a deep exploration of Carol's psyche. Melissa's creative input helps, but I hope her vision for Carol is allowed to flourish because it will feel disjointed if things change in post-production.

As I've mentioned many times on the podcast, I love the idea of Carol having more female friendships — more friendships in general — so we can see the difference in the way she interacts with her friends and the way she interacts with Daryl.

🥹 Thank you for your courage and vulnerability. I appreciate you very much. Don't be a stranger! My askbox is always open.

I hope this space is kind to you. ❤️