#can you tell i love descent to madness arcs

[painted-kneecaps]

Wait Aiz I think I missed what the relation between Chris and Kristoph is and where exactly she grew up.

Tell me loreeeeeeee

HI LAVII <3

OKAY SO i posted an TON about Charlie yesterday, and it’s all under my OC tag if you’re interested, but i’ll give you the rundown on Charlie’s beef with Kristoph !! Buckle in, this is going to be unnecessarily long.

Charlie’s parents were old college friends of Mr. and Mrs. Gavin. The Tréuses lived in France, but they visited with each other often in Charlie’s younger years, and she and Klavier grew very close.

Charlie hated Kristoph right off the bat. She has insanely heightened pattern recognition (weirdgirl powers) and even as a little kid, she could tell Kristoph was manipulating Klavier, getting him in trouble for things he didn’t do and making him believe it was his fault, and just generally being cruel. She grew very protective over Klavier as the years went on, and increasingly aggressive toward Kristoph.

Charlie’s parents were extremely busy and had to travel a lot for work, so most of Charlie’s summers were spent with the Gavins. The first few summers of the arrangement, before Kristoph moved abroad, were the worst, with Charlie repeatedly trying to confront Kristoph or call out his lies and toxic behavior to his parents, and Kristoph playing her accusations off expertly.

This knowledge that nobody believed her was one of the leading factors in Charlie’s general detachment from and lack of trust for parental figures as she got older, aside from her own parents’ neglect, and when the Gavins later began their weird mission to draw her into their “perfect family”, even going so far as to slowly change the pronunciation of her name over time to match with their other two children, she wasn’t particularly surprised or betrayed, just annoyed, seeing this development as just another easily-thwarted manipulation tactic.

When Kristoph moved to the states, right as Klavier and Charlie were entering their middle school years, Charlie was, of course, ecstatic. Some of her fondest childhood memories are from those few years where Kristoph was just an annoying memory lingering in the background of their lives. He did visit occasionally, though, and Klavier continued to idolize him, which led to multiple explosive fights between himself and Charlie, who tried desperately to point out the subtle ways that Kristoph was terrible to him, but Klavier refused to believe her.

Eventually, as time went on, high school made them busier and Klavier, two years ahead of Charlie, began to pursue his career, the two began to amicably drift apart before eventually losing touch. Charlie often thought of Klavier, still considering him a brother, but did her best to scrub Kristoph from her mind and life completely.

When she heard that he was in prison, she wasn’t even remotely surprised, and when she received a letter, imploring that she “look out for Klavier, as she always had”, she immediately knew who it was from, and that he was attempting to mess with her mind. She reached back out to Klavier regardless, and they reconnected, Charlie staying in his spare room under the guise of looking for work, her real design being to help her childhood best friend work through his trauma.

Charlie, being someone who thinks in logical patterns and often disregards emotion as a factor entirely, being completely shut off from her own, went about this in the most logical and emotionally disastrous way she could- she visited Kristoph, hoping that she might be able to pry something out of him that at last gives Klavier closure. It didn’t work, obviously, and Kristoph attempted to spin their childhood together and his parents desire for the “perfect family” in his favor, telling her that Klavier resented her for being the one thing he could never be to his parents- the daughter they always wanted.

Charlie, who couldn’t care less about Mr. and Mrs. Gavin, and really never had, found this accusation ridiculous, but it bothered her nonetheless. She had always known that the Gavins valued their image above all else, and that she was simply a means to an end to them, which was why their obsessive behavior toward her had never been more than a nuisance to be tolerated. They didn’t actually care about her, and she didn’t expect them to. She knew better than to depend on the adults in her life. What alarmed her was the thought that Klavier didn’t see them the same way, that he had actually been grasping for their care and love and approval, and that he had perceived their attentions toward her as competition.

She began to doubt her own perception of the situation, to pick at the threads of her own warped childhood and realize, especially as she became acquainted with Mr. Edgeworth’s little family of Mr. Wright and Trucy, that her childhood was not normal. That she had never felt safe, or protected in her upbringing- that she had always been the shield between Klavier and his family. That her own parents, whom she often went months without speaking to, even when she was a child, were completely oblivious to the psychological warfare that made up her summers as a child.

This crumbling of her defenses was, of course, exactly what Kristoph had been aiming for, and a part of her knew that- but she kept visiting him regardless, increasingly desperate for the missing piece of information, fond memory or scientific data lurking in their shared past that would click everything into place and knit her world back together. Her hatred for Kristoph was still visceral and biting, but she had begun to understand that his own upbringing was a factor, his parents’ subtle manipulations, so familiar to Charlie, twisting him into the man he was today.

She had always been so immune to his designs previously, repulsed by his mere existence in her vicinity, but she had a weakness, now, a crack in her defenses- a strange, begrudging understanding for the man that could almost be mistaken for empathy. So desperate for someone to relate to, and too aware of Klavier’s own fragile state of mind to confide in him about her own rapidly deteriorating mental state, that she had fallen prey to the one person in the world capable of hurting her the most. She had begun to see herself in him, and that scared her more than anything.

Klavier, understandably, was furious when he found out she had been visiting with Kristoph, and their mutual hurt and confusion culminated in their first fight since high school, and possibly their most vicious ever, and resulted in Charlie moving out and sleeping on Ema’s couch while she searched for her own apartment.

Edgeworth was the first, besides Ema, to notice the changes in her demeanor, usually so bubbly an involved in the investigative process, now distant and spacey, going through the motions at work and hardly even speaking to her peers. Holding a conversation with her had become like pulling teeth, and though the quality of her work did not suffer, she had become deeply withdrawn, and any attempts to reach out to her were skillfully evaded and politely declined. Finally, Edgeworth asked Athena and Simon to please speak to her and try to figure out what had changed.

And then, because this is Ace Attorney, after all- she gets accused of murder :))

[invested-in-your-future]

It's truly amazing how anyone can genuinely believe that the malarkey that is RWBY v4-9 was planned from the beginning.

Eh, depends on which parts.

As one watches the milesWBY volumes, it's pretty apparent which parts of the story beats feel like "intended" bullet points and which ones are stuff they just filled up with random nonsense.

Like, obviously all the brother gods and relics and vaults are one hundred percent Miles absurdity. Likewise, nobody can convince me that they always intended Atlas to fly, especially with how WOR very explicitly portrays it as just another city in a better location.

But there's a lot of stuff that feels pretty obviously like something that was always going to happen - like Yang and Blake having to face Adam or Ironwood cracking under the pressure of the world on his shoulders.

Now, at the core, there's nothing wrong with adding elements to your story as you go - most writers do that.

The issue however is no matter if the plotlines are new or planned, execution is just a mess.

As an example - okay Yang and Blake are obviously going to have to face Adam at the end of their respective arcs as they figure out their things so...where are the arcs leading to it?

Where's the buildup, the development, the progression? Where are Yang and Blake dealing with their issues and then with the issues between them? Where's Adam's descent into nonsense as his power(the thing he would care about) is taken from him till he snaps?? It's not there.

So the final big face-off against the man who scarred them with tragedy lands with the gravitas and pizazz of a wet thud - it's an after-though, a "side quest" that just randomly pops up while the rest of the nonsense in that Volume is happening.

Likewise I do believe they had like bulletpoint that says "Team RWBY mistrusts Ozpin because he shady" or something

So the big build up of moral ambiguity ends up with Ozpin literally doing nothing and then everyone deciding he betrayed them or manipulated them. Where's the build up? Where's the actual REASONS to doubt Ozpin? Not there.

So the crucial moment of everyone rejecting Ozpin's nonsense ends up with a stupid stand off where everyone is mad about birds and the idea that Salem is undefeatable (when Grimm have been the threat for centuries and everyone SHOULD BY DEFAULT assume it can't be "stopped" and is just part of the world, helloooooooo?)

It's one of the reasons I DO believe parts of the story WERE pre-planned - because it's like the writers are doing their own annoying gods stuff and THEN suddenly remember that "oh right this plotpoint needs to happen sometime here" - so whoop dee doo Ironwood suddenly switches personalities without build-up and the like.

The jarring switches between something that HAS to happen versus just random padding are what tell me that there were specific plotpoints that maybe always were intended to happen - Neo would obviously have Wonderland allusions and stalk Ruby, Ironwood would obviously crack in a morally ambiguous way, Adam would obviously get defeated - but the writing staff simply have absolutely zero capability(OR interest) to build up to those plot points

They just happen, alongside all the completely milquetoast brother gods fanfic stuff.

It's like the writing team has vague bullet points of what has to happen but no idea or interest in building up to them because they are way too in love with their brother gods and relics nonsense. And in turn, the good plot points suffer and end up completely anticlimactic or a complete mess.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

How would you rank the main 6 villains of the first arc of ML (Gabriel, Nathalie, Lila, Chloe, Felix and Tomoe) based on their writing ?

Based on writing? Well damn. (Twist my arm)

Okay so let’s start

But just know I will be discussing spoilers

6th Tomoe

I put Tomoe last not because she’s written badly but because she’s really written with the least amount of time as one and isn’t given much to work with. Tomoe isn’t a good mother, but her actions are more about a deal she made rather than an ambition. She cares about Kagami to a degree where she doesn’t want her involved in Gabriel’s akuma attacks. Tomoe is doing what she thinks is in the best interest of her family name, but she really doesn’t see the consequences of those actions. She also just gave Gabriel the tech rather than do it herself. So number 6.

5th Chloé

Now we get into bad writing territory, in season 1 she was the typical bully character. In season 2 and 3 she was the sympathetic mean girl who wanted to change. Season 4 she was back to square one after all of her redeeming qualities were stolen by Zoe. Then season 5 she was just a dictator puppet. So really it’s tragic how poorly written she is. Because this descent into evil could have worked if written better. But it isn’t.

4th Lila/Cerise/ Whatever her real name is

You can tell the writers tried to write a competent, manipulator that always gets what she wants because of the way she twists her words and her plans are clever. But the problem is… the level of skill needed for the execution was lacking. Now she has 3 moms, multiple identities and a secret lair in the catacombs. The main problem though isn’t that Lila is written smart, it’s that everyone not named Marinette or Adrien is written stupid when she’s around. Lila could easily be the best villain if she had some better writing but… it’s just so dumb at times.

3rd Gabriel Agreste

The writers wanted to portray a desperate man that would do anything for the family he loved that became blinded by his obsession. They made a selfish bastard that used his family to justify evil actions and bend the world to his whim. Now to be fair there were times where you could see the former, but Gabriel’s writing is so… All over the place.

I still can’t believe they let the guy win. Like what the fuck was even the point of the 5 seasons of fighting him.

2. Felix

Felix is technically more of an antihero, but he is likely the most calculating and ACTUALLY manipulative of the series. He outsmarted Ladybug and Monarch. His reveal as a sentimonster and his reasoning for his actions is the only positive thing I enjoyed regarding the sentimonster shenanigans. Now he is no longer a villain but his actions propelled the season 4 and 5 plots and should be considered someone on his own caliber. But he’s not number one because there is someone better

1. Nathalie

The arguably best written villain in all of Miraculous. She works to help Gabriel achieve his goal and is the main reason he got as far as he did, by her sacrifices and pushing her mind body and soul to the limits. She believed Gabriel was noble for his goal and was the one that saw first hand his descent into madness. And that’s when she had enough. Her change against him was because she knew the truth and wanted to stop the madness. If she was the one in charge it’s far more likely she would have gotten the miraculous without falling into such a state. She is one of the few people whose redemption I genuinely believe in this show

[eldritch-blasted-bagels]

Excuse my brain rot and the fact that I was a theatre kid BUT-

What Shakespearean Monologue I Want to See Each BG3 Companion Perform

Wyll

“O Soft, What Light Through Yonder Window Breaks” from Romeo and Juliet

Of course. There is no other option.

This man is a hopeless romantic and, I adore him, would not get the point of the play but would have so much fun playing Romeo.

Everyone in the cast would also be hopelessly in love with him.

(Bonus) “Once More Upon the Breech!” from Henry V

Oh this man would KILL this monologue. The battle cry? The rousing of his men against an impossible task? It’s what he was made to do, it’s what the character was built for.

Equal and opposite to how he’d absolutely slay as Romeo, he would make an amazing Henry.

Karlach

“O, Then I See Queen Mab Hath Been With You” from Romeo and Juliet

I almost, almost gave this to Astarion because I think he could also do it justice, but he already had two monologues.

Just… love u Karlach you can say whatever nonsense and I will nod along. Also absolutely ragging on your friend and getting carried away in the bit feels very in character for her.

I feel like she doesn’t really do acting but she would come support her friend’s productions however she could.

Astarion

“To Be Or Not To Be” from Hamlet

Hear me out; I think it would either be so over dramatic or the best damn rendition you���ve ever heard.

Contemplation of mortality, pain, existence? Astarion is at his best when he’s having an existential crisis.

This man was also just built to play Hamlet. You could replace this with “‘Tis now the very witching hour of night,” “O, that this too too sullied flesh would melt” Or any of his soliloquies and what I said still goes.

(Bonus) “Dost Thou Not Suspect My Place?” from Much Ado About Nothing

This is one of the best comedic monologues Shakespeare has to offer and I won’t be told otherwise

Specifically based on the line of Dogberry describing himself as a tasty piece of flesh while also being Dogberry and flouncing about, being hysterical, because someone called him an ass.

(Bonus 2) (Sorry this man is very Shakespeare coded) He would be such a good Puck in A Midsummer Night’s Dream. Just a little shit.

Gale

“O, She Misused Me Past the Endurance of a Block!” From Much Ado About Nothing

Just as I think Astarion was built to play Hamlet, Gale was built to play Benedick.

He’s just enough of an ass but also fucking comedic enough to pull this off and make it hysterical. Like Benedick, he also just keeps talking.

(Bonus) Lear’s Storm Monologues

I think at his worst, Gale could do Lear some fuckin justice in his performance of that specific piece, and that slow descent into madness.

Lae’zel

“I Would Eat His Heart In The Marketplace” from Much Ado About Nothing

It’s a take I’m so here for and I think she’d get really into scolding Benedick for being a dishonorable coward.

Just think about the potential delivery of “Oh! If I were a man! I’d eat his heart in the marketplace!” gives me chills.

I don’t ship Lae’zel and Gale necessarily but I think if you put them in a production of Much Ado together it would be cemented as a bar-standard production.

Shadowheart

“O What a Noble Mind Been O’erthrown” from Hamlet

She kins Ophelia and you can’t tell me otherwise. Also specifically, in this, the context of being used as a pawn by everyone in her life feels appropriate.

(Bonus) Let her play Joan of Arc in Henry VI. I don’t know why she’s so Joan of Arc coded in my brain but let her do it.

Halesin

“All the World’s a Stage” from As You Like It

This one is the one I’m least confident about but the world-weary and worn nature that it can take on feels very Halesin and I think he would do a performance in such a way that it sends you spiraling into an existential crisis.

(Bonus) Minthara

“And Dash’d the Brains Out!” from Macbeth

Again, I just think Minthara would kill as Lady Macbeth.

But, I don’t think “Out damn spot” would be where she shined; I think these moments of absolute murder and ambition would.

Also inspired by the production (in DC I think?) where they had to cut Lady Macbeth literally smashing a baby doll on rocks during this monologue because the audience found it too disturbing.

[meggoreads]

Meg Thinks: Iron Flame

There's going to be spoilers in this post so please read at your own risk.

First of all, this book felt very Anime Filler Arc. I feel like we've been reading 2000 pages of setup between the first and second book.

Honestly, I think Book 1 and the first half of book 2 could have been one book as long as all the fluff from book 1 was taken out. Take out Jack Barlowe coming back and keep Varrish as the big bad (make him the secret Venin) and then keep the ending with everyone fleeing Basgiath with Book 2 starting with everyone in Aretia and go from there.

Because right now I am getting whiplash between all the back and forth between Aretia and Basgiath.

But let's get into it.

Things I Liked:

Always always the dragons. Though I do feel like they are still set up as comic relief and plot devices rather than fleshed out characters. We didn't get nearly enough of Sgaeyl (and Andarna) in this book.

Jesinia & Imogen, whom I felt were better friends to Violet than her own squadmates. And also felt like more fleshed out characters.

Things I Didn't Like:

Violet & Xaden. God, their relationship was so annoying. Xaden, you should know which information you should be forthcoming with. Violet, people are allowed to be private even if you're in a relationship with them.

Someone also mentioned that the whole "ask me" schtick feels very weaponized incompetence and now I couldn't agree more.

The "intentions" signet. Congratulations, you're just really good at reading body language. They introduce mind-reading as some stairway to madness but of course give the MMC the Lite version instead of actually writing something interesting like descent into insanity (but I guess the venin plot will be doing this for us ???)

Still no real explanation for Violet's disability and it doesn't seem to really impact her day-to-day life outside of a few throwaway lines. I would just like to see the representation be representing. But maybe this will pave the way for other authors.

I don't think having both Sloane and Cat vehemently hate Violet was necessary in one book. Cat's whole "I don't love him, I just want the crown" was flimsy at best, & Sloane just all of a sudden does a complete 180 as soon as Cat is in the picture makes no sense.

Things I Need Clarity On:

Okay, what color is Andarna supposed to be? Is she purple? Is she all of them? I was hoping she would be silver to match Violet. It just didn't feel explained very well. (The last couple chapters in general seemed rushed)

Things To Be Improved:

I still feel like I know next to nothing about Rhiannon, Ridoc, & Sawyer. I don't feel their camaraderie. I actually can barely tell the difference between Ridoc and Sawyer.

Like I had said in my Fourth Wing post, when it was announced Iron Flame would be released so soon, I knew that this book would be unpolished and rushed and RY had no time to really deep dive into the criticisms of the first book to improve her craft. But kudos to her for producing that crack that makes you want to keep reading.

Will I continue to read the series? Probably. Do I think they'll get any better? Probably not. Do I still hope for a decent live action adaptation? Most definitely.

[hornyweasel]

i’m usually very easily entertained but i was left feeling rather empty after the finale, i do hope they fix their pacing issues for s3 and adopt a more show don’t tell attitude bc we’re tired

what annoys me most is the fact that season 1 was super fast paced and season 2 began with b&c and the twins killing e/o then NOTHING. i mean rook’s rest and the build up to it were rather good but you can’t have /nothing/ happen for the most part of three episodes at the very end of your season???

v disappointed at having been shown aemond looking at the pyre he created rather than seeing him actually do it or how/when/why he decided to do it when the whole season for him was about his descent into madness? reminds me of what they did to aegon at the end of s1, throwing shit at the wall and making it stick forcefully like?

speaking of aegon, what was the point of making him this horrible person just to turn back around and make him sympathetic this season….? i love tom to bits and he’s singlehandedly managed to make mr aeg one of my favourite characters but i really can’t wrap my mind around the fact that they made him a literal child r@pist in order to give rhaenyra a better claim only to make him this sad little pookie bear in s2 like….? ok

also the smallfolk? hello? going back to my argument regarding aemond, the only people we’ve seen him harm/kill were family/nobles, people that he had ties to and mostly (not you luke) had something to do with the war, SHOW HIM BEING CRUEL TO INNOCENTS IF YOU WANT HIS DESCENT INTO MADNESS TO HAVE IMPACT GODDAMN i don’t care about these nobles and their little family issues, i’m a left wing bitch, give me the people and their grievances and opinions on what’s happening. we only had dyanna and the madame for half a second + hugh who’s very compelling and i can’t wait to see his story moving forward but like. that’s it? mf they’re gonna kill the dragons, have them be more important BEFORE the last ever second before chaos (hey helaena and jaehaerys) i beg

the whole tyland arc? couldn’t we have had that earlier? or later? like… during the finale is INSANE 😭

showing tessarion in the teaser only for her to only appear at the end of the episode…? could have not teased it beforehand and let people feel that excitement when watching the episode bc i was expecting daeron to at least get off her and do a little one step two step but no it was the same literal thing as shown in the teaser like? ok (x2)

daemon having one facetime call with helaena and reverting back to being a rhaenyra loyalist and kneeling in front of her (and his men doing the same) at the very last minute when the whole season was about his self-entitlement and jealousy? make it make sense

at least alicent’s arc made sense, she spent the whole season chastising herself for her past decisions so it… kind of…. makes sense….. for her to turn her back on everything? she was never a righteous/selfless person so yeah i can let that slide

criston throwing all caution to the wind. we love to see it honestly but why would gwayne put him on blast in front of their troops like that 😭 homie that is your widowed sister the dowager queen 😭

rhaena… nobody moved. why is she chasing that damned dragon at her own peril? i mean i do get why but AGAIN you can’t just show us a glimpse of someone without having taken us through the whole process of them coming to that decision I’M SO PISSED OFFFFFFJFHRHFJFJFJ

p sure they’re going to merge maelor’s storyline with jaehaera’s bc why wouldn’t they? but also 😭 jaehaera and aegon not leaving at the same time or him not having been shown thinking about his only living child or wife or mother like????

also did we hear anyone call rhaenyra ‘the realm’s delight in s1’ because I don’t remember anyone doing that so it makes aegon using it so useless in regards to the gp like who the fuck knows what it means if they haven’t read the book and are just casual watchers?

[capcavan]

flattered to be villain expert anon. i just want to finish up that the anon is objectively wrong (and i'm sorry but i learned so much about writing dissecting ygo when you go beyond oh silly cards games because there is so much talent and craft there, they don't actually pull in hack writers, they good writers in and then tie their hands) zexal is not the worst it just has a bad reputation. vrains is objectively the worst, do you know how bad a ygo spinoff cashcow has to be to be cancelled a third of the way into its run and get ygo pulled off air for 2 years? all the seasons have pros and cons and honestly solid writing in various areas that sync really well with some of the stuff that aftg really sucks at discussing (go sit and the corner and think about what you've done aftg fandom when ygo fandom is more mature and better at nuance than you):

DM: mostly filler and iffy animations but amazing once it gets to egypt several hundred episodes in (aka the bit the mangaka was actually invested in)

GX: fun school romp, fascinating descent into madness for the mc, rushed ending because the mc's voice actor wasn't booked properly so had to rush the important scenes and cut everything else.

5Ds: the older edgier darker atmosphere that doesn't stick the landing, wanted to be about cults and inequality (if you want cults 5Ds arcadia is great, they actually attempt to sympathetically tackle what it's like to leave a cult when you were their poster child) and does a really good job in the first half (also just everything about the dark signers is peak ygo fanservice), before the director got sick of the board forcing product placement over story and changing things last second so he couldn't even adjust properly so left to do symphogear (a show mostly unknown over in english fandoms but is one of the most anime anime ever and regularly goes toe to toe with giants like HQ, AOT, YoI and MHA for ratings), and also the tokyo subway cult attack happened and one of the voice actresses was in said cult, so a quick rewrite was done that made no sense.

Zexal: is the best villain writing in the series, pick a villain type it's got it and it's written it pretty damn well, has the best rating for any spinoff in japan and the only one of the first run of spinoffs not to have controversy, making it more cohesive as a whole, but it has a brighter style to hide the darker themes, and a younger protagonist, used as a jumping on point for new younger fans and even fans suggest skipping to episode 12/13 to avoid the worst of that and get into the plot when the real villains start appearing.

Arc-V: (pronounced 5, which sucks because Zexal spent its entire run telling us V= vee) the 5Ds director returns, then has the same issue of the board interfering just as a new season of symphogear is confirmed so leaves half way again, and once again you can tell (ygo fandom loves to blame director ono for shit he wasn't even there for), but if you want a decently good story about forcing yourself to bury your emotions and just be happy, the horrors of war and the realities of making children save the world, it's a pretty good one until about episode 80, honestly does a great job of tackling child soldiers and their cult mindset and what happens when that is challenged and the various reactions from rejection all the way up to well i've done too much shit to change paths now to the ygo equivalent of suicide.

Vrains: so much potential absolutely wasted, a really good attempt to tackle childhood trauma and abuse and ptsd and the need for revenge on your abusers and how far it can take you but plagued by behind the scenes drama that left the show itself a mess that got cancelled only a third of the way in.

all to say ygo gets written off as a dumb show about a dumb card game but its got some real writing talent hidden in there the same way aftg has if you're willing to pay attention and have some media literacy. and i am sorry for forcing my ygo has good writing once you get through the bullshit opinions on you

been distracted sorry it's okay ! appreciate expert's helps with navigating this !!!

[earthstellar]

Thank you, I'm glad you like my thoughts on Warlord Ratchet! :)

I would have loved it if we got more time with the Orion Pax Arc in TFP, if only because it would have been great to see Orion trying to familiarise himself with the Nemesis and life with the Deceptions...

...Only to find himself struggling to recharge, his processor unable to spool down for rest, filled with thoughts of Warlord Ratchet and imagining how the destruction of Cybertron came about at the servos of his old friend.

Surely, Megatronus would not lie to him. So what happened?

Perhaps he mentions his recharge fluxes (nightmares) to Megatronus-- or rather, Megatron, these days-- who somberly (yet enthusiastically) recounts the early days of the war.

Iacon Medical, turned into a fortress.

Large crowds, all chanting "Repair, Recover, Revitalise" as if it were a fervent prayer to Primus for both mercy and power.

Megatron's description of Warlord Ratchet would break Orion's spark-- And make him all that much closer to Megatron in the process.

"What happened to Ratchet, to drive him so far into violent despotism? Megatron, please. I must piece together what I can of our past, to make sense of any plans for the future. I cannot reconcile the state of our world and the ruler of its ashes with my remaining memories of the kind medic I once knew."

"Ah, my dear Orion. Even the most well-intentioned of sparks may fall down darker paths. Warlord Ratchet's reign of terror began..."

As he goes on, a horrified and enraptured Orion Pax can all too easily imagine the scenes Megatron recounts to him, the descent of his old friend into all-encompassing madness, the destruction of Cybertron born of an old medic's desires to resolve and repair the damage done to their world by the Council's oppressive measures sustained throughout centuries of societal rot-- Only to become a tyrant within a healer's frame.

In Orion's mind, Megatron's fiction is his only understanding of reality. He leans into Megatron's side, racked with guilt-- If he had not been knocked into stasis, would he have been able to intervene? Would he have been able to stop Ratchet before he was overwhelmed and corrupted by power, the force of his own movement pushing him towards madness in Orion's absence?

And how painful, when Megatron receives an incoming video comm from these Autobots, while Orion stands hidden in shadow on the bridge of the Nemesis in an effort to catch a glimpse at his old friend.

The first thing Orion notices is that Warlord Ratchet does not look anything like what he imagined such a heinous despot to look like-- But of course, what is the face of evil?

It almost hurts more, that this Warlord continues to wear the red and white armour of a medic, desecrating the honoured markings of a healer, while embodying everything he formerly stood against.

It does not ever occur to Orion that Megatron may have lied to him; His trust in his friends is absolute.

He trusted Ratchet, too. But this does not lead to doubt, only frustration and lingering confusion.

How many times had Orion been repaired by those kind, skilled servos which now were legendary for welding surgical tools as weapons against helpless and struggling bots, a cruelty so far beyond reason Orion cannot fathom it?

Megatron is a wise manipulator; He notices Orion in the shadows, but does not say a word.

Instead, he pushes Ratchet to anger in their short conversation, making threats that Orion interprets as defensive, understandable, something the Autobots have forced Megatron to resort to.

Orion watches, as his old friend deploys his in-built surgical blades and proceeds to wield them in a promise of violence towards Megatron, and he knows that Megatron was telling the truth.

The Ratchet he knew would never use his medical tools outside of treating a patient-- But the Ratchet presented to him on the massive screen on the Nemesis' bridge is more aggressive, older, his voice more strained and optics glowing with hate for Megatron and all he stands for.

It breaks Orion's spark-- And he leaves the bridge in silence, unable to see the broad, fang-filled grin crossing Megatron's face as he walks away to grieve.

Warlord Ratchet: A Fascinating Concept 

“And to think, the Doctor of Doom’s mad quest for power continues…! His marauders pursued us to this planet’s orbit.” 

What gets me about Megatron telling Orion Pax that the current dilapidated condition of Cybertron was brought about by the Warlord Ratchet, Doctor of Doom (aside from the concept in and of itself) is that he also states that Ratchet has a legion of marauders who carry out his bidding 

and because marauders are raiders, and Megatron states they were “pursued by marauders” to Earth, the implication is that Ratchet is not on Earth himself–

– which is smart on Megatron’s behalf, because this would deter Orion from potentially attempting to leave in order to confront Ratchet and instils a concern that perhaps marauders may appear at any time (at this point, Orion Pax does not yet realise that he is armed and is operating under the belief that he is still an Archivist and therefore not Warrior Class) 

but also, this gives us the incredible mental image of Ratchet milling around in some kind of rusted fortress made from the remains of several different Cybertronian buildings, quite possibly the remnants of Iacon – maybe even the central hospital there, converted into a hive of terror 

still living on an otherwise uninhabited planet, with a loyal band of raiding troops who scavenge the remains of their world and possibly other planets as well (as we know these marauders supposedly have space capable vessels), quite possibly doing so in order to source spare parts and other various salvage – Ratchet is a medic, who knows how he’s been having to piece together his army, repairing them from the remains of random citizens? 

and he supposedly, presumably either from his makeshift base in the shadows of Cybertron or from a war ship of some kind, commanded an army of raiders to chase Megatron and his followers as far away as Earth 

“I cannot imagine Ratchet capable of such horrors!” 

I can only guess at what Orion Pax was thinking in this moment, aside from his immediately stated disbelief: What drove Ratchet to such lengths? What happened to turn his compassionate, caring friend into a warlord capable of carrying out inconceivable destruction? How could such a thing occur, especially at the hands of a respected medic, someone he thought he knew so well? 

Would Orion Pax start to blame himself, for what was clearly the brutal decline of one of his greatest friends? I can imagine him starting to wonder if there was anything he could do, any signs of discontent, any indication that Ratchet was headed down a violent, dark path. 

And I’m sure he would be concerned about Ratchet himself, as well. How is Ratchet faring, nearly entirely alone on their planet save for his loyal bandits, as aged and worn as he ever has been, possibly accepting a lonely inevitable death on an already dead world? 

Or does Warlord Ratchet have yet more plans in store, his instruments of destruction poised to afflict themselves upon other worlds as well? 

The Doctor of Doom: How Could This Happen? 

It’s somewhat easy to dismiss the idea of Ratchet being this “Doctor of Doom”, because it so wildly opposes what we know of the character and what we know actually occurred with the war. 

But when you think about it for a little bit, an unhinged Ratchet would very much be a formidable opponent, especially with his social position in pre-war Cybertron giving him more immediate access to higher class/caste areas than many others would have been able to reach… 

…Perhaps this Warlord Ratchet was able to work his way into the Council’s good graces, possibly after attending to one of them after an injury and restoring them to health, gradually manipulating the Senate from the inside in order to secure more power, resources, allies, and ultimately the whole of Cybertron for himself– Leading to a violent conflict which resulted in the destruction of their world? 

With his medical knowledge, even if he started out with a fairly small number of followers and whatever troops he could finesse away from the Council, he may very well have “built” some himself– We do see in TFP that protoforms may be possible to manipulate into certain frame types, or some types of “cloning” may be possible. 

Any version of Ratchet without morals (or at the very least without any medical ethics) is a very dangerous Ratchet. 

Repairing the injured via patching them together with the remains of fallen comrades, creating a “zombie” army. Ghoulish, lumbering soldiers, marauders held together with armour designed for other frame types. Instructing his former colleagues (who would likely have at least started out with some inclination to follow him) to carry out “repairs” in such a way. 

Warlord Ratchet himself may have chosen to ingest dark energon much like Megatron actually did, perhaps out of a desire to create a new fuel source once Cybertron began to go dark and natural fuel sources began to dwindle. We already know that our actual Ratchet wasn’t afraid to test synthetic energon on himself, with similar motivations. 

His base of operations would quite possibly be Iacon’s medical centre, turned into a horrific hive-like structure, some wards actively still in use for repairs (at least for his own followers) and other areas dedicated to terrifying research, with supply basements full of experimental tech and defensive weaponry. 

Ratchet’s more support class (as opposed to warrior class) approach to things may well carry over to Warlord Ratchet’s approach to war– An emphasis on intelligence ops, R&D, indirect and direct manipulation, initial political manoeuvring from within the existing system, and defensive systems to counter any munitions etc. that may come his way from opposing forces. 

His initial goals may well have genuinely been intended to improve Cybertron, to help people. Much like Megatron, back when he was Megatronus and wanted a more egalitarian, fair society. 

After working on lower class/caste bots who were nearly offlined from a lack of maintenance, poor to no access to healthcare prior to being dragged to him, etc. it may have been the catalyst for his decision to start using his upper class social contacts in an effort to change things from the inside out. 

Unfortunately, in this universe in which Warlord Ratchet rose to power, things may have derailed just as severely as they did with Megatronus and his initially well-intentioned efforts. 

The longer you think about it, the more plausible it could be. 

It would be easy for Megatron to build further upon this idea to manipulate Orion Pax, that Ratchet truly could have done this. 

I’m sure Orion Pax did not recharge well, his first night on the Nemesis. 

Where did things go wrong? What happened to his friend? How could he do this to their world, a world that Ratchet loved so much? 

–

IDK I just think “Warlord Ratchet” is an incredible idea, and I would have been totally fine if they did a whole season of TFP with the Orion Pax concept lmao 

also holy shit Ratchet in a built up fortress of a former hospital with a band of marauders under his command is such a powerful mental image 

[Screenshot: TFP Episode - Orion Pax, Part One] 

[jakowskis]

mmmmm. tomgreg thoughts. i have a lot lot lot of tomwam thoughts tht i need to. try to get out one day soon but for now i just. am thinking about tomgreg

and yanno... there’s a legitimate tragedy to canon tomgreg. i was thinking about it, and like... they’ve always had an odd relationship. when they first meet, tom’s already immediately oscillating between threats and insults, and kindness and generosity (”i’ll take care of you”, helping him find a position at waystar, buying him dress shoes). greg’s confused by this, but he overall is just happy that he caught someone’s attention, considering the roys don’t give him a second glance. he tells ewan in the thanksgiving ep, prior to all the cruise shit starting, “he’s just scared and lonely”. and damn, if silly little greg didnt understand tom right off the fucking bat, before all of the madness even started. at that point, tom was just a strange but interesting friend, and greg was grateful for him. 

then the request to shred the papers. instantly, greg realizes what that means. tom sees him as expendable. tom is anticipating a future in which he offers greg up as a sacrifice. tom is not a friend. and although they still maintain a “friendly” (??? is that the right word for Whatever They Have) relationship, that’s really, really sat at the back of both their minds. i think a moment it comes to head is in the court room - “i’m going to go to jail because of this fucking guy!”, and tom’s distraught look. i remember noting during that scene that tom appears to be truly near tears only after greg yells at him.

throughout their whole relationship, literally since season 1 episode 5, greg’s been silently resenting tom for doing that to him, while tom, as he’s grown closer to greg and started valuing him and needing him and hhhhhhhhhh loving him, is insanely regretful. and his love and desire to fix that fuck up is best shown in his s2 and s3 attempts to keep greg from getting burnt - not just once (boar on the floor), but twice (tonight’s diner talk). 

the tragedy lies in the fact that tom did something unforgivable at the beginning of their relationship, not anticipating the way his own feelings for greg would develop. and he’s trying to make amends, but at the same time tom’s character arc has been centered around the stress of the cruise shit, his failmarriage with shiv, and (more subtly) his emerging feelings for greg - greg’s arc has largely been about his own subtle descent into greed and apathy and pettiness, like the roy siblings (...greg with the michael corleone arc wtf. i hope thts legit where it progresses fhsdkf that’d be so sad). 

tom’s going down, and he’s shutting down under the stress, but he’s still trying to offer greg kindness bc he’s the only good in his life anymore, and he needs so badly to be looked at with fondness. but greg’s going up, he’s losing the parts of himself that tom fell for in the process, and he’s becoming too dedicated to his newfound desires n needs to stop and offer tom anything, let alone to consider forgiving him. 

tom was at the top and he burnt greg to secure his own future. then, as he plummeted, he reached out. but now greg’s going to the top and he’s burning tom to secure his future. 

actually, bc he’s greg, he cant even fully burn him a la roys. he’s just... dismissing him. proving that he can function without him, when all tom wants is to be needed by someone

it’s poetic justice, rlly, but it’s horribly fucking sad

[licncourt]

top 5 moments of louis characterization

or

top 5 pieces of vc fanon

Honestly, I'm at the point where I hardly know what's canon and what's fanon because AR lore is so wild, so I'm taking option one for my own sanity.

The lead-up to Paul's death! What we find out about mortal Loui really encapsulates the clash between the moral pillar Louis aspires to be (and believes himself to be in some cases, whether he'd admit it or not) and the reality of his selfishness. He's a spoiled brat who has the privilege to sit around and contemplate his adherence to Aristotelian Christian morals while his lifestyle is made possible by pure exploitation. It tells you everything you need to know about Louis and how his moral compass, how it's all theory and no practice. That carries over directly to vampirism in so many fascinating ways.

THE PRIEST SCENE. I think that's really the first time we see what Louis is capable of when he loses it entirely. Feeding on Claudia was a lapse in control, but the priest scene was a concentrated descent into madness, like a microcosm of his issues around desire and control and guilt. He goes from a quiet, pious young man to a bloodthirsty monster over the course of a few paragraphs. It's so chilling and so revealing, Louis as he wants to be and then Louis at his worst (which is also what he thinks he really is). Truly masterful and one of my favorite scenes from VC as a whole.

His stupid little Aesthetics monologue. Literally what the fuck is this Lewis. What a fuckhead.

"But why…you’ve said Lestat shouldn’t have made you start with people. Did you mean…do you mean for you it was an aesthetic choice, not a moral one?"

"Had you asked me then, I would have told you it was aesthetic, that I wished to understand death in stages. That the death of an animal yielded such pleasure and experience to me that I had only begun to understand it, and wished to save the experience of human death for my mature understanding. But it was moral. Because all aesthetic decisions are moral, really."

"I don’t understand,” said the boy. “I thought aesthetic decisions could be completely immoral. What about the cliché of the artist who leaves his wife and children so he can paint? Or Nero playing the harp while Rome burned?”

"Both were moral decisions. Both served a higher good, in the mind of the artist. The conflict lies between the morals of the artist and the morals of society, not between aesthetics and morality. But often this isn’t understood; and here comes the waste, the tragedy. An artist, stealing paints from a store, for example, imagines himself to have made an inevitable but immoral decision, and then he sees himself as fallen from grace; what follows is despair and petty irresponsibility, as if morality were a great glass world which can be utterly shattered by one act. But this was not my great concern then. I did not know these things then. I believed I killed animals for aesthetic reasons only, and I hedged against the great moral question of whether or not by my very nature I was damned."

4. The flower picking and stargazing and singing!! It's an adorable passage, but it also encapsulates what makes Louis so endearing. No matter what happens, he never loses his reverence for the wonder of being alive, the inherent optimism and love that keeps him going through everything and the unexpected whimsy that makes you so aware of why he winds hearts like he does. It's so little but so much. I talk a lot of shit about Louis, but God. He's a cutie pie. Baby.

5. The Prince Lestat epilogue, my beloved. It may be the bare minimum from Anne, but my little guy is HAPPY. He is forgiving himself and finding peace and it makes his arc feel worth it. I'm SO glad AR let him have this after so much suffering. It's so lovely and so needed.

+ Honorable mention to him standing in the rain and watching Romeo and Juliet (1996) through the storefront window. It serves functionally the same purpose as no. 4, but it is so.

[abumbledbee]

Tubbo and Wilbur’s Parallels

tw/ mentions of death / suicidal ideations

“If I can’t become the next Schlatt, then you can’t become the next Wilbur.”

This is a quote from Tubbo, given just before the exile arc began, when he was arguing with Tommy. Tommy accused him of acting like Schlatt because he was putting the nation's needs before him. Tubbo, offended at the comparison, reminds Tommy that he is acting irrationally, and is reminding Tubbo of Wilbur.

When we speak of parallels between Tubbo and Tommy with Schlatt and Wilbur, we’re often inclined to compare Tubbo with Schlatt, because they worked together so closely during Schlatt’s reign, and the complicated relationship between them which ultimately ended up with Schlatt having Tubbo lose a canon life for his betrayal. And due to Tommy and Wilbur's close relationship before and up to Wilbur's betrayal, it's easy to draw comparisons between them as well.

But I think we often overlook a lot of similarities between Tubbo and Wilbur that are worth delving into more, and the farther Tubbo goes with his character the more comparisons I keep catching. At this point I think Tubbo's character parallels Wilbur's far more than Tommy's does.

Wilbur was the founder of L’Manberg, and its first president. It’s a nation he built from the ground up, which started as nothing more than a front for his drug lab but grew into something bigger and more meaningful than Wilbur ever planned for. While on the server he found love (?) and had a child, Fundy, and then things began to get rocky as they fought for their independence against Dream.

Ultimately Wilbur fails to protect L’Manberg and their independence is bought by way of Tommy sacrificing his discs in return. Wilbur ends up losing his country by way of being exiled when Schlatt wins office, and we watch his descent into madness as he realizes how much he cared for the country and how no matter what he does, what it once was is gone forever in his eyes. The Pogtopia arc originated with Wilbur trying to come up with a plan to secure his presidency again and to reclaim his country. It ends with Wilbur refusing his original role and ultimately destroying the very thing he created along with himself because he couldn’t bear to see what it or himself had become.

In Wilbur’s darkest moments we see them play out on screen, his button room is one of the most iconic scenes we got during this period of the storyline. Wilbur in an enclosed space, surrounded by the signs reminding him of what L’Manberg once was and what it would never be again. He's hounded by his thoughts, his mental state shattered and he no longer believes there's any other course of action.

Ultimately this is his final resting place, the room where he sets off the TNT that destroys L’Manberg for the first time. He begs his father, who had just arrived to the server because he was worried when Wilbur stopped sending him letters, to kill him. And Phil does.

L’Manberg’s story does not end here, despite what Wilbur did. It begins again, with Tubbo and a crater. We talk about Tubbo being president of L’Manberg as though he was just taking on the role and a nation the way Schlatt did, but in reality, he founded it again. Tubbo, along with Phil and others, REBUILT an entire city on the rubble of its former life. Tubbo’s L’Manberg is in fact nothing like Wilbur’s, except for the parts Tubbo purposely recreated, like the camar van.

The major difference in their takes on presidency is that Tubbo did this for Tommy, for Wilbur, for the original citizens. He took on the role of President out of duty to Wilbur who passed it down to him when he felt unfit to rule again. He did his best on behalf of everyone who fought on Pogtopia's side, to reclaim a nation they all had lost. In the end he lost it one final time, chunk errored by way of Phil, Techno, and Dream.

And from here on we see a new Tubbo. The bright-eyed, president-elect is no more, and instead he begins to isolate himself from the main server. He retreats to a snowy biome separated by water, and builds a house and gives it a name. Snowchester. Now, most people wouldn't give just a house a name. Even from the start Tubbo was creating a new community, without even realizing. Eventually Snowchester grew to be a legitimate colony of its own, with Jack Manifold, Foolish, and Puffy all moving in and setting up shop. He declares independence, and in doing so, decides he must ensure it any way possible. He's seen what happened to Wilbur's L'Manberg, how helpless the other man was in keeping it safe. He knows he failed his own L'Manberg, and he will not let it happen again.

He hatches a plan with Jack, and the answer is.... Nukes. A bomb, in other words. But instead of using it to destroy his nation, it'll be used to protect it. Tubbo designs it, and they ensure it works with a test launch before decommissioning the remaining two. Time passes and eventually, he's opening up to people again. Tubbo marries Ranboo and they adopt a child together.

Suddenly it's not just Tubbo, it's Tubbo and Ranboo, Tubbo and Michael, and then Tommy is gone. It's shocking, and unexpected, and he doesn't believe it at first. He's been so beaten down under Schlatt's regime he no longer openly shows his emotions, the closest we get to seeing his true grief during this time is when he stares at the memorial he just finished for Tommy in Snowchester. Then comes the anger.

He wants to know how this could've happened, he tries to investigate it, but before he can get too deep into it, Tommy's back. Revived, and Tubbo has had to experience losing him and gaining him back again twice now. Inevitably, like with most of Tommy's plans, Tubbo is roped into his next one. And it's a doozy. Tommy reveals that he wants to kill Dream, to ensure he can never revive anyone else, and Tubbo reluctantly accepts.

One of the most troubling moments during his investigative time was when he made a room for him to fill with his notes and evidence. At first glance it is deeply reminiscent of Wilbur's button room, the walls covered in signs and his lectern in the middle of the room mimicking the button. Because Tommy returns before he can get further in his investigating we'll likely never see this room again, but seeing him make it to begin with filled me with unease.

Tubbo has lost his fear of death. It's first noticed at Doomsday, when he defeatedly jumped in front of Techno's rocket launchers over and over again. We see inklings of it again and again, such as when he scoffs at his chat begging him not to investigate Techno for the TNT at the prison, saying he'd die. Tubbo just replies with "So be it." and continues on. We see it again when he and Ranboo investigate the Eggpire and get caught, and he continues to fight with them until he's only got a few hearts left. He mentions feeling exhilarated, full of life from almost losing his last. It's a reminder of the violent life he's had til this point, his time in the SMP filled with war and bloodshed since the very beginning. He's not afraid to fight despite being on his last life, in fact at times he seems almost ready to end it all.

Yesterday's lore stream was unsettling in a few different ways. The first being Tubbo casually mentioning how his eyes play tricks on him. It's a throwaway mention towards possible hallucinations or paranoia. He also refers to himself as paranoid later on when he's worried someone's hurt Michael, and it bothers him so bad that the next minute he rushes over to ensure Michael is safe. He is willing to do whatever he must now, to ensure Michael can grow up safely, much like Wilbur wanted for Fundy, with no Dream to terrorize the server any longer.

Wilbur's initial wish for L'Manberg once it was fully formed was for it to be a nation his son could grow up safely in, with all the possibilities at his fingertips, until their independence was threatened and he had to focus on leading an army instead of being a father.

But even more upsetting than that, is Tubbo's admission to how he designed the nuke. He tells Jack after one is stolen that there is a manual detonation option, a dead man's switch. He designed the bomb to have a suicidal solo detonation option as a last resort, so if he ever needed to use it and Jack wasn't there he could take matters into his own hands. Tubbo was so ready to ensure if something happened to his self-made colony he could deal his revenge even at the cost of his final life. His reasoning for making the nukes was not for self-defense, it was so he could finally take a swing back at whoever took from him again. He'd seen L'Manberg destroyed twice by people who initially sided with it, had 2 canon lives ripped from him by way of betrayals. He might not have thorns on his armor but by god will his death have them, and heaven help whoever is on the receiving end of his suicide-start nuke.

This mimics Wilbur's final steps but from the logical, more level-headed mind of Tubbo. He's created a bomb, a weapon of destruction he's willing to die with. Wilbur wanted to die with L'Manberg, Tubbo is willing to die for Snowchester.

[feysandfeels]

48. Not Theia going "if we walked into a trap then we must defeat them." BESTIE YOU, YOUUUUUUU, WALKED YOUR PEOPLE INTO A TRAP!!! BFFR I AM BEGGING.

49. Also I cannot believe Tortured Trio went ahead with the biting the hand off plan. Like ummmmmmmmmmmm

50. Ithan essentially clawing off Isgrid's throat like

51. Also shoutout to my ToG fae!!! WHAT'S GOOD FAM? WE VIBING???

52. Silene, my love, is not the risk of using The Trove, is the risk of being fucking dumb LIKE YOU WERE.

53. This being said, the whole story of Theia and co is actually very interesting and I would love to learn more from them as their actions were unfolding. The descent into hellish ambition, the realisation, the mate thing with Aidas: all of it. What a character arc these three women have!

54. Not Bryce finding the missing Asteri and awakening her. Well done you.

55. Isgrid is not dead DEAD, right? like if Sabine can come back from a fucking shot to the head surely this girl can come back from having her throat ripped. Like it's not that serious.

56. What I can't get passed is Bryce being annoyed at Nesta and Azriel, when they are like no, we don't feel inclined to open a portal to your world and help you, when she has done nothing but show them how wreckless and selfish she is. Like girl. You are willing to endanger a whole other planet full of innocent people just to save your own and because you *check notes* hate the fae from *checks notes again* 15,000 years ago; so Prythian can get fucked because of the decisiones Theia made?

57. Nesta YOU BAD BITCH!!!!! KILLING THAT ASTERI GIRL WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT! THAT'S MY GIRL! EPAAAA ARRIBA! Bryce, watch and learn. Honestly!

58. I AM FUMING FUMING FUMING AT BRYCE!!!! HOW DARE SHE STEAL TRUTH-TELLER? HOW DARE SHE GET MAD BECAUSE NESTA AND AZRIEL WANT TO TELL RHYS WHAT THEY HAVE LEARNT?! HOW DARE SHE JUDGE THEIA AND HER ACTIONS WHEN SHE WAS HAPPY TO ENDANGER A WHOLE ASS WORLD BECAUSE SHE "NEEDED" HELP BUT THEN SHE REFUSED TO BE HONEST AND WANTED TO STILL PLAY BY HER RULES AND HER RULES ONLY!!! HOW DARE SHE JUDGE THE SELFISHNESS OF THE HUMAN REBELLION, WHEN SHE IS JUST LIKE THAT.

59. Honest to god now I understand why Danika never told her shit! Bryce is deeply selfish and lacks perspective to a worrying degree.

60. again, NO FUCKING WONDER DANIKA DID NO TELL YOU SHIT ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON, BRYCE!

61. If Hunt's lighting can resurrect people, lets make it happen, Team, and bring Danika back! with her at the helm we can get through this.

62. Lidia is a fucking badass. A FUCKING BADASS! I CANNOT UNDERSTATE HOW MUCH OF A FUCKING BADASS SHE IS!

63. My baby Ruhn crying and telling Dec he loves him. RUHN YOU DESERVE THE MOON AND THE STARS AND ALL THE UNIVERSE.

64. Once again, Lidia is a fucking badass! (I mean if they are bringing Sabine, some other person who already died, and that Sigrid girl, they might as well bring Lidia back... like c'mon)

THEY TOOK OUT RUHN’S LIP PIERCING?! THEY! TOOK! OUT! RUHN’S! LIP! PIERCING!!

SOMEONE HOLD ME. SOMEONE HOLD ME RIGHT NOW. I AM ABOUT TO BREAK THE RULES OF TIME AND SPACE AN REALITY AND MAKE THEM PAY

MAKE THEM PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

[iheartbookbran]

Ok so actually my biggest problem with the whole “Daenerys will burn KL” theory—not even the Mad Queen Dany theory, which is of course very sexist for obvious reasons, but just like, the idea that Dany will ~accidentally~ ignite the wildfire in the city, burning it all to the ground. That, at first, doesn’t sound that bad, but the longer I think about it the more I hate it because tbh it doesn’t do anything for her character? And also… that fate for her is just down right cruel.

Like, the most frequent argument I see on why this would be at all satisfactory for Dany’s arc is basically that it would be a sort of lesson for her about the dangers of unchecked power and the real threat the Dragons can pose on humans and that she shouldn’t use them to fight against other people. And that’s all well and good, excellent message… except that’s not something Dany’s ever really needed to learn? Not anymore that her fellow rulers, which I will touch on more detail later, but in general Dany has seen what the abuse of power can do. Starting with her conflicting feelings regarding Viserys and how she recognizes that even though he was her brother and she loved him, he also abused his power over her as her older brother, her only family and her king; she feels guilt about the atrocities Drogo committed to the lhazarene and tries to help them; she feels so much guilt about not handling things correctly in Astapor that she decides to throw away all her plans to go to Westeros and instead stays in Meereen.

And about not knowing the true danger that her dragons can pose? I mean, this is the same girl that literally agonizes across several of her ADWD chapters because Drogon killed a child, and then takes the extreme measure of caging Rhaegal and Viserion to prevent that from ever happening again. I think she’s at least a little bit aware that the dragons can be dangerous, thank you very much.

Ok so this got long...

Anyways, the only time Dany legit uses Drogon to harm someone and not just as bluff was at the house of the Undying, where she was being attacked, and in Astapor… and like, lmao, that asshole Kraznys mo Nakloz and the rest of his slaver buddies deserved it. Don’t at me. Also, Dany’s hardly the only one with a big magical and deadly beast at her disposal, why didn’t Robb had to go through some horrifying traumatic incident to learn he shouldn’t use Grey Wind in battle to tear his enemies’ throats. Bran will be learning about the dangers of abusing power, but that’s linked to his magic powers and an actual reprehensible thing he’s doing, not the use of his glorified prehistoric dog to kill, which he’s done, just like Robb. By all means let the narrative hold Dany accountable for her mistakes… but her actual mistakes and not shit she has no control over, because she doesn’t have much control over Drogon or the other dragons even though she’s trying to, and that’s very obvious in her last ADWD chapter where she’s delirious and Drogon could kill her at any moment, and she knows that.

The other big argument people make for Dany burning KL (even if it’s by accident!) is that it will teach her about the price of war, that someone as young as her shouldn’t be leading armies and conquering kingdoms, and that fighting for the Iron Throne is not a worthy cause, and I feel like that misses the actual point of her story by a mile. First of all because a) Dany is hardly the only teenage ruler in the story and b) this is a fantasy medieval story, a lot of the characters shouldn’t be doing the things they do, aaaand yet. Also speaking of other teenage rulers with far more power that they should have—Robb and Jon, being the biggest examples.

Granted, Robb and Jon aren’t exactly successful during their time as rulers, they’re literally betrayed and killed by their own men (even if Jon will technically come back for round 2 of bullshit he’s too tired for). But the moral of their stories is not that they lost because theirs was an unworthy cause and they were stupid kids wholly unprepared for their roles. And I actually partially agree! They are just kids, including Dany, and they shouldn’t be responsible for looking after so many others and going to battle, but their cause is still just and worthy, even with all the mistakes they make along the way. Robb didn’t loose because he was wrong in demanding justice for his family or trying to protect the riverlands from the Lannisters and their minions, he lost because Tywin Lannister was a giant coward who couldn’t take him out in a fair fight.

Likewise, it isn’t wrong of Jon to try to incorporate refugees from beyond the Wall into Westeros. He’s not too stupid and honorable to do politics like his father (how I hate when people insult Jon and Ned like that), and while he did some very obvious mistakes that inevitably ended in a coup and in him dying, this is more connected to his inability to let go of his ties with his family (mainly Arya or who he believes to be her), and in isolating himself from his friends and the people he could actually trust.

I’ve always thought that Dany and Jon share a parallel narrative within the story, so while Jon is struggling with that Dany is faced with similar problems. She cages her dragons, that to her represent the only family she has left, and she tries to compromise with the slavers, marry a man she doesn’t love, pretend she’s ok with reopening the fighting pit. While she tries her best to rule wisely in Meereen, it all comes at the cost of betraying herself and her beliefs, so it’s no surprise when it all crashes around her and she’s betrayed and nearly killed. Ironically, it is Drogon who comes to rescue her.

If they are monsters, so am I.—Daenerys II, ADWD.

This is hands down one of my favorite Dany quotes from the whole series, and I hate that it’s been given such a negative connotation in the fandom, when for me it represents Dany’s humanity and compassion at the fullest.

GRRM has a knack for humanizing the ‘monsters’ of his story, for showing the good in the outcasts and the ugly and the scary. He embraces their ‘otherness’ and makes them the heroes of his stories; Arya, Bran, Brienne, Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Theon and many others are all compared to monsters or beasts at one point or another in the books.

Dany sees herself in her dragons, literal monsters in every sense of the word. Later on she faces Drogon inside the pit, and in that moment you could say that she accepts that ‘monstrous’ part of her, and in doing so she’s saved from her fate of dying at the hands of the men who would crucify innocent children and gleefully profit off of the suffering of their fellow human beings while watching them fight each other to the death for their own amusement. Now tell me who’s the real monster in this situation.

But shortly before that happens, Dany is able to see the humanity in Tyrion, an outcast who has been branded as monstrous and unlovable due to his disability all his life, a man who has come to believe in his abusers’ rhetoric about him so strongly that he’s started to act cruel and detached. She saves his life. She sees value in his life when few others would, because she cares.

I’ve always find it funny that the “dragons plant no trees” is—another—example fans use to argue in favor of Dany’s descent into Darkness™ because the actual scene goes like this:

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros.

"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.—Daenerys X, ADWD.

Now am I the only one who finds it at least a bit relevant that it’s freaking Jorah Mormont aka Jorah the Enslaver whom Dany’s subconscious, at her literal lowest moment, utilizes to represent this particular thought, which btw I’ve always interpreted as Dany’s own self-loathing manifesting in her, and this is something she’s actually always struggled with—the idea that she’s not enough and she’s failing. Because above all things, even Westeros or the Iron Throne, what Dany wants is peace, she wants to plant trees.

When Dany made her descent, Reznak and Skahaz dropped to their knees. "Your Worship shines so brightly, you will blind every man who dares to look upon you," said Reznak. […] This match will save our city, you will see."

"So we pray. I want to plant my olive trees and see them fruit." Does it matter that Hizdahr's kisses do not please me? Peace will please me. Am I a queen or just a woman?—Daenerys VII, ADWD.

But of course the world doesn’t work like that, and so long as there’s Jorahs and Tywins and Eurons out there, men who would take the freedom of humans and submit them to their will, Dany can’t have the luxury of peace, just like Jon can’t have the luxury of belonging and family so long as there’s people still beyond the Wall who need his protection.

And I think that’s fine. It’s fine that Dany failed, it will help her develop as a character and realize that there’s no room to compromise with slavers, the metaphorical monsters of the story who do far more harm than the other more literal ‘monsters’ of the story. So that when she has to face down Euron Greyjoy—who btw, there’s a high chance he will end up stealing one of Dany’s dragons via Victarion using Dragonbinder… y’know, as in enslaving one of her children and using said dragon to inflict god knows what horrors, yet not many people ever consider this for some reason?—she will know. When she has to face down the Others, the magical ice fairies with no regard for human life, she will know.

That’s why I believe that it would make absolutely no sense for Dany to have to go through such a tragic and traumatic experience like burning a whole city even by pure accident, over something that’s either never been a problem with her character or she’s well into her way of learning anyways, so it would just feel repetitive. As I have pointed out, she’s already reached one of the lowest moments of her arc. Not saying there will be no other blows for her, and probably the destruction of KL will be one of them, and knowing Dany she will feel responsibility over it no matter what, but that doesn’t mean she has to be the culprit, intentional or otherwise.

[wenellyb]

Hey, I wanted to get your opinion on something

I've seen a lot of people hate on Malcolm Spellman for mistreating Sam and Bucky in CAATWS and so they aren't looking forward to Cap 4.

But I really enjoyed CAATWS, and don't really remember them mistreating either character.

Sure, Sam's trauma could have been dealt with a bit more (I really wish they did), but a lot of his trauma (Riley, military, etc) wasn't relevant to his arc in the show, so it might have felt out of place in terms of storytelling. I think the show did talk a little about his trauma as a black man in America, and of losing his parents, both of which were relevant to the plot. They could have gone more in depth, but I don't think that warrants so much hate for Malcolm Spellman. I hope to see a more in-depth delve into Sam's trauma in Cap 4.

But anyway, those are just my thoughts. What do you think?

Hi Anon!!!

Thank you for this ask, it's really interesting and I think I tend to agree with you..?

I apologize in advance, because this might be long, I'll try to make it short but I don't promise anything.

I have written about this before, but I have no problem with the way Sam was written in the show, I've loved Sam since first seeing Civil War and in the FATWS I felt like I really got to know him, instead of getting glimpses of him in other Avengers movie.

The way I see it, a lot of people on this site seem to think that there is one and only one correct take about a movie or a show, when in fact it's only an opinion, and of course depending on your expectations, personality and tastes, you will have different opinions.

I agree with you and I don't think that Sam's character was mistreated. I've also read that a lot of people felt like Sam wasn't the lead character in the first few episodes, and I didn't see it at all. If anything, the fandom were making a lot of the episodes about other characters rather than Sam: Bucky, Zemo even Walker, but the problem was the fandom, not the show itself. If you watch the show, you can clearly tell the show is about Sam Wilson as the lead character, and Bucky as his partner.

I don't think Bucky's character was mistreated either, but I can understand the problem some people had with the was his therapist turned some of her sentences. Because to me it's clear that Bucky has never been responsible for anything he did as the Winter Soldier.

And also Bucky was kind of a jerk at the beginning of the show, but I didn't feel like it was bad writing, because then it came full circle in ep 5. It was just a story they told, and if you ask me, I saw Bucky growing, and learning from his mistakes. Not being mistreated. But I can understand that some people didn't see it that way.

I have read great analyses explaining what was wrong with the way Sam was written, and they're great, really interesting and eye opening, but it's a feeling I just don't share.

My only beef with Malcom Spellman was his decision to kill off Lemar Hoskins, as someone who grew up watching movies where they killed of the Black character first for absolutely no reason, as if there were just. expendable., it was really disgusting for me to watch Lemar being killed off, not because it would have been a great storyline but just because they needed a reason to show Walker's descent to madness (spoiler alert: they didn't need to kill Lemar for that). Worst part is that Spellman knew exactly what he was doing but decided to do it anyway (I'll link the intrview where he talks about it if I find it).

So yeah, I'm not a big fan of Spellman either, but for different reasons. Non Sam-related reasons.

Would have I loved to see more of Sam and his personality, and his background and flashbacks? YES. Would I have liked to see more of Sam dealing with his trauma, and painful moments? Not really.

I wouldn't have complained, and I wouldn't have minded, I even think those scenes would have been powerful, but it's not something I felt was missing or was even needed.

I had been the writer of the show, I wouldn't have changed a single thing, except I would have never killed Lemar (that was bad writing imo).

I loved how the show was written, I loved that we got a show dealing with racism the way no other MCU show/or project has done before, not even Black Panther, I loved that we discovered the heartbreaking story of Isaiah that just felt so realistic, because that was what would have happened if a Black Super Soldier had existed, and it actually has happened, but we got to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I loved how they built up Sam's journey to becoming Captain America, showed his internal struggle and then gave us a reveal in the most glorius ways. I loved episode 6. I looved everything about the show.

Was it perfect? No, they could have wrapped up the story about the flagsmashers better, there were some scenes missing. Was it perfect to me? A hundred times yes!

Because at the end of the day this is fiction, and I love my fictional stories to have satisfying endings, because we don't get those in "real life". But I can understand that other people have different expectations about their fictional characters. We don't have to all feel the same way about everything.

I don't know how to explain this but I feel like a lot of people on Tumblr are set on this idea that shows/movies should focus on a character's trauma. I'm not against it, and I can understand that people wanted to see more of that side from Sam, but I personally didn't.

And even if I did, the way Sam was portrayed felt really realistic to me, a lot of Black men deal with trauma the way Sam does, keeping everything inside and tying to put up a front. The fact that we didn't see tears or anything doesn't mean that we didn't get to see Sam's feelings, struggles or emotions, because we did.

Saying that Sam was portrayed badly in the show, is not an objective statement. It's an opinion. It's not wrong, but it's an opinion.

You're allowed to like the way the show dealt with his character and you're allowed to hate it too, it's all good.

I personally don't watch MCU movies, to see my favorite characters go through painful moments and relive their trauma. I do want to know more about them, their background, their history, and personality, and I hope we'll see more of it for Sam, but that's it.

My answer is all over the place, but in short, I personnally don't think there was anything wrong with the way Spellman wrote Sam, even though I understand why some people did, but I still don't like it how he killed off Lemar Hoskins and his flimsy justification, so I'm cautious about him too. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for Cap 4.

[sur-un-fil]

Some of BATIM's Alternate Universes (AU)

( The English version, let's go!)

Uptate: 23/03/2021

⦁ Abomination, @halfusek : (practically finished). One main comic "Abomination" HERE, other small ones here and there and two linked accounts: Magenta (a kind of ask-Joey) and the same for Henry: Marshmallow. -> The Abomination comic in a few words: "prequel" of the game, where we discover the installation of the Ink Machine, the various attempts at creations of cartoons and the descent into hell (and especially the madness) of the main character , Mister Drew himself.

⦁ The Illusion of living, @waruihoshi : (finished but possibly reworked). A main comic HERE, as well as some gifs and animatics. -> The story in a few words: a "prequel" also, but where we find a well-intentioned Joey who tries to find the happiness he has lost.

⦁ New soul, Elwensa (in progress) A magnificent comic book, which can also be found on DA, HERE -> In a few words (IFW): Henry manages to break the cycle and "bring back" Bendy. They are looking together for a way out of the Studio.

⦁ Toon Henry, @hailo-c: (finished / abandoned) A collection of small comics that begin a story, which can be found together on Pixiv HERE. The author is also at the origin - if I am not mistaken - of some animations, of which that of "Welcome Home". -> IFW: What if Henry becomes a toon and Joey has brainwashed Bendy ?

⦁ Robberhose, @yunisverse : (finished) A nice series of comics and some fics, of which the masterpost can be found HERE. -> IFW: Henry, corrupted by the ink, becomes a toon and tries to get out of the Studio. Based in part on the script, this is a really nice AU who develops some very interesting ideas.

⦁ Sammy and the Ink Machine, @nayialovecat : (in progress): A series of mini-comics centered around Sammy. Other series are in preparation, including a prequel "Before Henry". To be found mainly on DA, HERE. I am translating them :) -> IFW: we mostly follow Sammy, Bendy and Henry in a Studio stuck in chapter 2. A lot, but then a lot of humor: we have a Sammy, adoring his "lord" like a 13-year-old girl adores a boy singer -band, a Bendy who tries to avoid him and who finds that his life sucks a lot, and a more or less disillusioned Henry who tries to survive as best he can.

⦁ 2D Bendy, @shinyzango  : (finished, evolved into something else) Some comics, some UA fanarts. HERE -> IFW: Henry has managed to recover a "living" drawing of Bendy and tries with him to survive his other demonic versions.

⦁ Hell's Studio, @doodledrawsthings : (more or less finished) A series of drawings and comics HERE, three great animatics on Youtubes (but I do not believe that the designer is the owner) -> IFW: a Joey more stupid than cruel / avaricious gives life to a version of Bendy who does not appreciate the drawings and the management of the Studio. Lots of humor, and towards the end the author tackles (very well) a serious theme.

⦁ Team Sillyvision, @corruptimles : (still in progress) A few comics, a lot of drawings. HERE -> IFW: We follow two "teams" Sammy and Henry, and a little Bendy who is attached to the projectionist.

⦁ The Devil's Roost, @devilsroost : (still active) Lots of comics, a main arc to be found HERE and a lot of questions and answers from Bendy himself.  -> IFW: Bendy is a true demon, embodied in a toon body modeled in ink. So exit the cute little devil who is afraid of ghosts, and hello the demon who drinks, smokes cigars and loves big breasts. He moved to Toon-Town and opened a bar there (Yes. A bar). Lots and lots of humor. But not only!

⦁ Lampblack City, @lampblackcity : (paused) Some comics following a precise arc HERE, drawings and questions and answers in relation to AU . Quite a lot of OC. -> IFW: Henry, Boris, Alice and Bendy managed to leave the Studio and they are installed in Lampblack city. But ink corruption still exists and they find themselves having to fight it because only they know about it.

⦁ Happily Ever After, @a-rae-of-sunshine: (still in progress) To my knowledge, especially comics. HERE -> IFW: Henry "recovers" an intact Bendy at the end of the 5th chapter and leaves the Studio with Alice (Allisson) and Tom. We also accompany them outside.

⦁ Henry and the Ink Machine  + the buddy AU, @thelostmoongazer : (finished ... I think). A few comics forming a story. HERE -> INF: Bendy, perfectly formed, runs away from Joey before things go wrong. Much later, he receives a rather threatening letter, half ordering him to return to the Studio. Where he finds an "inky" Henry.

⦁ MOB Boss Bendy, Beneccio Drew @thelostmoongazer : (finished / abandoned?) A few comics but mostly drawings and questions and answers. HERE -> IFW: A perfect adult Bendy, turned mafioso, evolves in a city full of toons (?).

⦁ Bendy get a life, NEGADUCK9, deviantart : (still in progress) Full, but then full of mini-strips, to find HERE. -> IFW: Well ... I haven't read them. Sorry ^^ '. But we mostly follow Bendy, Alice and Boris as if they had a "real" life. 

⦁ Ink Stain, @metallicartist : (paused) A (very good) comic book, which can be read in great quality on Tapas HERE. -> IFW: What if a good blow to the head was all it took to make the Studio characters to themselves? The arc follows the story of the game.

⦁ Hell's Kitchen, @spudinacup : (overwhelmed artist) Some comics. HERE. -> EQM: Ink Bendy is opening (I have no idea why!) A bacon soup canteen.

⦁ Escape, @inkdemonapologist (more or less finished) A few comics starting a (pretty) story. HERE. -> IFW: All the ex-employees of the Studio managed to leave the Studio and took refuge in a house, together.

⦁ Host, @random-friendly-1ntrovert: (in progress) For the moment, three pretty comics - which I translate :) - HERE. -> IFW: An entity searches for hosts and uses Bendy's naivety and distress to find them.

⦁ Broken cycle, @bccomicask : (in progress) Some  pretty comics, all by hand. HERE. -> IFW: Ink Bendy crosses the ink and arrives in a swapped version of the Lost Ghetto. Kind of "Sandman".

⦁ Ask Bendy, @askthedevilswing:(stopped): Some magnificent comics and especially questions and answers.HERE. -> IFW: A (practically) perfect bendy worries about being stolen the show.

⦁ Inkborne, Abel the Angel, @the-vampire-inside-me:(deactivated account, difficult to find) -> IFW: Inkborne is an adaptation of the scenario of the game with another and Abel is an OC. From what I understand, it was also designed by Drew but now evolves in a city of Toons ... And not doing all angelic things.

⦁ Bendy Before The Ink Machine, @bendybeforetheinkmachine-rus: (in progress) Comics, to be read in the Japanese way. HERE. -> IFW: I haven't read it, unfortunately ... I understand that Bendy is human and takes over from Joey at the head of his company ...

⦁ Bendy's mafia, Dylan the demon: @eliana55226838 and for Dylan (I understand he had changed owners, but impossible to find her name. So sorry, if anyone knows ...) HERE. -> IFW: I haven't - so far - been able to find the beginning of the story ^^. But I think it's centered around a Bendy turned criminal, around whom a few other characters in the game revolve.

⦁ "Collage-man", @bravagio (Provisional name, just beginning) For now, a few drawings but an interesting idea and a sumptuous line. HERE. -> EQM: What if Henry was corrupted by ink and was behind the funny portrait Boris made in his refuge?

⦁ Welcome to Bendyland, @welcometobendyland: (starts this month) For now, mostly Q&A and a very promising UA draft. JUST THERE. -> EQM: We find a Henry transformed into Bendy without him remembering how as well as Allison and Tom. To be continued ;)

..............................................................................................................................

P.S: Keep in mind that these AUs are all in English, mostly two to three years old and quite often based on the early chapters of BATIM.

If I forgot any, if there are others you like, if I made a mistake or if my English stings your eyes, do not hesitate to tell me (kindly, it is not intentional !)

Enjoy!

[iamanartichoke]

I wrote a Thing. It’s extremely long. I’d prefer it not be reblogged; I wrote this for my own catharsis and would prefer it not be circulated, bc of Reasons. 

I changed my mind, okay to reblog. <3 

Under a cut for (extreme, did I mention?) length. 

So I got about 12 minutes of sleep last night, as you do, and around 3am or so I found myself - out of sheer curiosity - going down a meta hole of Ragnarok discourse, trying to figure out where this "satisfying redemption arc" for Loki happened. (I mean, there's a lot of things I would like to figure out, but I started there.) Because I could. 

Basically I was looking for meta that went into detail about how Loki was redeemed in a satisfactory way. The ‘satisfactory’  is an important word here bc there is a redemption arc in the film, in that Loki starts off the film as an antagonist (kinda) to Thor and he ends the film as an ally to Thor, standing at Thor's side. In that sense, yes, there's a redemption arc. I didn't find much (and I had no idea how much people just despise Ragnarok "antis" [I really dislike that word] but that's another topic [that I don't particularly want to get into, tbh]) but I did find some. I read what I could find, and I read it open-mindedly, and overall I came away feeling like, okay, there are some valid points being made here and I can kinda see where they're coming from.

But it was a bit (a lot) like -- flat. Idk. The best comparison I can think of is that it’s like if a literature class read, I don't know, The Yellow Wallpaper for an assignment, and some of the students came away from it feeling like it was a creepy story about a woman slowly driving herself insane, and the other students came away from it incensed at the oppression and infantilization of women in the late 19th century -

- and neither side is wrong, but the former is a very surface-level reading and the latter isn't (bc it stems from looking at why she drives herself insane, why she was prescribed 'rest' in the first place, the context of what women could and couldn't do back then, etc; basically, a bit more work has to go into it). 

[Note: I am not disparaging the quality of The Yellow Wallpaper. At all. It’s just the first relatively well-known story that popped into my head.]

In this sense, I can see the argument for Loki's redemption arc, but I don't think it's a very good argument. Not invalid, but not great.

I mean, for example, I think the most consistent argument I found variations of re: Loki's redemption is that Ragnarok shows Loki finally taking responsibility for his bad behaviour and misdeeds. This includes recognizing that his actions were fueled from a place of self-hatred and a desire to self-destruct in addition to bringing destruction on others. That he probably feels awkward and regretful of these things and doesn't know how to act around Thor, but he figures it out by the end, and decides that returning to Asgard is the best way to show that he's ready to make amends. His act of bringing the Statesman to Asgard is an apology. He allies himself with Thor and ends up in a better place, both narratively (united with Thor once again) and mentally (having taken responsibility and made amends for his past).

And setting aside that he had already made amends by sacrificing his life in TDW (and also setting aside that the argument is made that Loki redeems himself in IW by sacrificing himself to Thanos but if that's the case, wouldn't that imply that he hadn't achieved redemption in Ragnarok or else there would be no need to achieve it again in IW? Or, if you think he did achieve redemption in Ragnarok, then what the fuck did he give his life in IW for? What was his motivation there, and why did the narrative not make it clearer? I digress.) 

- setting aside those two factors, I think this is a very fair argument. Loki is fueled by self-hatred, and he does want to self-destruct, and he does want to inflict that pain on others as well (particularly Thor). No lies detected here. 

However, I also need to know where that self-hatred and desire for destruction (toward himself and others) comes from and for that, we need to go back to Thor 1.

Thor 1. 

Loki starts Thor 1 out as "a clenched fist with hair," to borrow a quote from the Haunting of Hill House (that I tucked away in my mental box of Lovely Things bc it says so much so very simply). He's very used to bottling everything up, pushing it down; he slinks around behind the scenes, pulling the strings to this plot or that. He's "always been one for mischief," but the narrative implies that the coronation incident is the first time Loki's done anything truly terrible. And it all immediately pretty much goes to shit, so Loki spends the rest of the movie frantically juggling all these moving pieces while trying to seem as if he's got it all under control, every step of the way. That's how I view his actions. 

But I always come back to that quote where Kenneth Branaugh tells Tom, of the scene in the vault, "This is where the thin steel rod that's been holding your mind together snaps." In other words this is where Loki discovering he's Jotun is just one thing too many. He can't take it. But though the rod snaps, his descent isn't a nosedive. It's a tumble. As the story progresses, the clenched fist starts to loosen, the muscles are flexed in unfamiliar ways (that feel kinda good, after being stiff for so long), and it culminates with the hand opening completely and shaking itself out. All of that repression, that self-hatred, that rage and jealousy just explodes so that, by the time the bifrost scene happens, Loki's already hit bottom. It's not just about proving his worthiness to Odin. He wants to hurt Thor, too; he, essentially, throws a tantrum. (That's right, I said tantrum.) 

(Note: The word 'tantrum’ has negative connotations bc we normally equate it with a toddler stamping their feet and screaming in the aisle when their parent won't buy them the toy they want. But in itself, the word tantrum isn't infantalizing. It's an "emotional outburst, an uncontrolled explosion of anger and frustration" [paraphrasing from dictionary.com]. That's exactly what happens here [and why Tom called Loki's actions a massive tantrum, but people took that to mean Tom agreed it was childish whereas I doubt Tom meant it that way]).

He's been pushed past his limit, and he does bad things. He does really shitty things. He hurts Thor, he hurts his family. I'm pretty sure he knows this all along so this isn't, like, some revelation further down the line that "hey, those things I did were probably kinda bad." He got the memo already. 

Ragnarok 

Fast forward to Ragnarok, and we're introduced to a version of Loki who's had 4ish years to sit with everything that's happened. To sit with it and not do much else. The rawness of it has faded, and now it seems as though it's just become a thing, like when you move through life aware of your childhood traumas and have more or less just accepted them (and you probably share a lot of really funny depression memes on Facebook, which is kinda the equivalent of Loki's play, but that's probably just me). 

Loki has, more or less, chilled out. He seems more bored than anything else; he's been masquerading as Odin for longer than he ever planned or intended to, so he's more or less ended up hanging out, letting Asgard mind its own business, and entertaining himself with silly plays. This is the version that starts out the movie as an antagonist to Thor - a version that is, arguably, in a much different place [and is a much milder threat] than the version who originally did those Bad Things. 

And of course Thor is still mad at him, and of course they're going to butt heads, because that's what they do (and Thor's grievances are genuine, I’ll add, bc it's not really his fault he assumed Loki faked his death, nor can he be blamed for being pissed about Odin).

One argument framed this version of Loki as being a person who is facing the awkwardness of coming out of a dark place, which is fair. If we're going to frame his actions in Thor 1 as a tantrum, then Ragnarok would be the part where the toddler has been taken home, possibly has had some lunch and a juice box, and is now watching cartoons. They're over the tantrum, and would probably feel pretty silly about it if they weren't, yknow, toddlers. They probably can't remember why they even wanted that toy so badly. If they're a little older and self-aware, they might even be embarrassed for having melted down.

Like the word tantrum, this feeling isn't a thing limited to toddlers. I know I've had a few epic meltdowns as a grown ass adult, and I know I always feel deeply embarrassed afterwards - like, want to crawl into a hole and die. I've said things I can't take back. Adolescents and teenagers throw tantrums, mentally ill people throw tantrums, adults throw tantrums (I mean, my god, look at all the videos of Karens having screaming meltdowns - screaming! - over having to wear masks in order to shop at stores). Humans throw tantrums. And usually, after the feelings have been let out and the tantrum has passed, humans feel pretty regretful and awkward and embarrassed about whatever they did and said in the midst of their meltdown. 

I get all of that and agree it's valid and that Loki probably feels it. By the time Ragnarok happens, Loki's had some time to reflect and think hmm, yeah, probably could've handled that one a lot better. The argument further goes that in order to navigate this awkward period, Loki must come to terms with what he's done, acknowledge that some things can't be unsaid or undone, and begin to make amends. Supposedly, some people feel that Loki becomes a better person because he does "own" everything he did wrong and, even though he feels like a jackass (paraphrasing), he sets that aside to become a become a better person by choosing to help Thor and Asgard at the end. 

Thus, the overall arc goes like this. Loki, Thor's jealous little brother, 

throws a tantrum of epic proportions bc Reasons 

continues to act badly and make things even worse (Avengers) 

has to face consequences for his actions (prison sentence) 

ends up with a stretch of time in which he's free to contemplate and chill out 

feels embarrassed and awkward about how he's behaved

sees an opportunity to make up for it and decides to take it 

helps Thor, saves the day, and ends the film a better person. 

Redemption achieved.

None of this is wrong. The film supports it. It's a fair interpretation. But it leaves. out. so. much.

To circle all the way back around Loki being "a clenched fist with hair," and his actions stemming from his self-hatred, you have to ask - how did he get that way? He didn't end up with all this self-hatred on accident. Generally, one isn't born despising themselves, it's a learned behavior. (I realize chemical imbalances are a thing, obviously, as I have Mental Shit myself, but for argument's sake I'm assuming that's not the case with Loki [at this point in time]). 

Where did Loki learn it? From his family, from his surroundings, from his culture. We see examples of these microaggressions in the first, like, twenty minutes of the movie - a guard openly laughs at Loki's magic after Thor makes a joke about it (the tone of the conversation implies that Thor "jokes" like this often) and though Loki does the snake thing, the guard faces no real consequences. Thor doesn't acknowledge that anything went amiss. Not much later, on their way to Jotunheim, Loki's barely gotten two words out to Heimdall before Thor cuts him off, steps in front of him, and takes charge. Loki doesn't look annoyed at this; he looks resigned. 

Then, for absolutely no reason at all, Volstagg decides to make a jab at Loki ("silver tongue turned to lead?") just because he can. The ease with which he makes this comment and the way that no one else blinks an eye at it implies that this isn't out of the norm. And Loki doesn't react, not really. In the deleted version, he delivers a particularly nasty comeback but he delivers it under his breath, without intending Volstagg to hear it. In the final version, he simply says nothing, though his expression can be read as hurt or stung. Either way, the audience sees an example of Loki being walked all over by Thor and his friends and bottling up his reactions instead of standing up for himself. 

Microaggressions matter. They are mentally and emotionally damaging. They hurt. The implication that this is not unusual treatment for Loki means that Loki's probably gone through this for most of his life. It's like the equivalent of being, I don't know, twenty two and you're the friend who has to walk behind the others when the sidewalk isn't wide enough, and it's been that way since the first day of kindergarten. At this point, you're used to it, but that doesn't make it hurt any less when the jabs come seemingly out of nowhere, for no reason other than to make you feel bad.

(I personally identify a lot with this bc I experienced passive bullying in social settings for years. I was the 'doesn't fit on the sidewalk' friend; I hung around with people who'd pretend to be my friend and would be more or less nice to my face, but would laugh at me and make fun of me behind my back for whatever reasons. And often there'd be the random jabs at me, things that would come out of nowhere to smack me in the face, followed by the fake laugh and “just kidding!" so that I couldn't even get upset without being made to feel like I was overreacting and couldn't take a joke. I'd deal with this socially, particularly in middle school when girls are their most vicious, and then I'd go home and, because I was the only girl with a lot of brothers and because boys are mean and because I am who I am, the dynamic was that my brothers would just endlessly roast me to my face and sometimes it was a "just kidding!" thing, where I was the only one not laughing. But that’s beside the point; my point is that microaggressions, passive bullying, and consistent invalidation are harmful and that shit stays with you into adulthood.) 

So, yes, Loki needs to be held responsible for his misdeeds, and it's valid to say that he recognizes those misdeeds and wants to make amends. I have never disagreed with that. But the problem with this interpretation is that it lets every single other character who contributed to Loki's self-hatred and mental breakdown (let's just call a spade a spade here, that's what it was; he was broken psychologically) get off scot-free.

First of all,

Odin is not held accountable for instilling in the princes a mentality of Asgard first, everyone is beneath us but Jotuns are benath us the most, they are literal monsters. He is not held accountable for pitting his sons against one another (even if it was unintentional, he still did it) with "you were both born to be kings but only one of you can rule" being the general tone of their upbringing. He's not held accountable for his favoritism toward Thor.

Frigga is not held accountable for deferring to Odin both in supporting the above things and in keeping the truth of Loki's origins a secret while doing nothing to discourage the "monsters" narrative. 

Thor is not held accountable for his own tendency of taking Loki for granted (he assumes Loki will come to Jotunheim, he oversteps Loki constantly, “know your place,” etc.. He grants his implicit permission for Loki to be treated as the sidewalk friend in their “group,” a group which is loyal to and takes their cues from Thor as Thor continues to do nothing in his brother's defense).

[Note: Wanting Thor to be held accountable for things he's done wrong isn't vilifying him. Acknowledging that Thor benefited from Odin's favoritism and his own place as Crown Prince doesn't negate Thor also being raised in an abusive environment. I don't think anyone's saying that or, if they have, it's not something I agree with.]

Furthermore, 

Odin is not held accountable for his cruelty in disowning Loki (”your birthright was to die” is never going to be forgotten, speaking of people saying things that can't be unsaid or taken back) and in sentencing Loki to a severe prison sentence (life! only bc Frigga wouldn't let him execute Loki) for crimes that are no worse than what Odin himself has committed (around which the entire plot of Ragnarok revolves! Colonialism (and subjugation) is wrong is, like, a major theme [that people rush to praise, even] here). 

Thor is also never held accountable for not trying harder to understand what made Loki snap (fair enough, he didn't have a ton of time after returning from Earth, but certainly he had lots of time to sit around reflecting while Loki was being tortured by Thanos for a year). He knows Loki is "not himself" and "beyond reason" and accepts it at face value; he questions it once and then lets it go. He's fine with assuming Loki's just lost his mind, and isn't that a shame. (I realize I'm simplifying Thor's emotions but my point is that Thor could've tried harder to figure out that Loki was being influenced and/or not acting completely autonomously.) 

Thor is also never held accountable for - if not facing consequences for his own slaughter of Jotuns - then at least addressing why Loki can't kill an entire race even though Thor tried to do that, like, two days ago. (Granted, it’s difficult to understand how Thor got from Point A ("let's finish them together, Father!") to Point B (this is wrong!), but that failing belongs to Thor 1 (which is not, by the way, a perfect movie).

The interpretation that Loki is fully redeemed because he took responsibility for his actions, returned to Asgard, and allied himself with Thor to save their people is all well and good - but, why is Loki the only one here who has to take responsibility for their actions? 

What about all the loose threads in his story? 

For example, how did he get from: 

Point A (believing himself a literal monster, having a complete mental breakdown, getting tortured and further traumatized after that, etc) 

to 

Point B (Hey, yknow what would be fun? I'm going to write and direct a play about how I heroically died to save Thor and Jane, and I'll go ahead and have Odin say he accepts me and has always loved me. I'm going to do these things because Odin never said this in real life and instead of acknowledging my sacrifice, Thor left my body in the dirt, so someone has to validate what I've done right and that someone might as well be me. And hey, while I'm at it, I'm going to control the narrative on revealing myself as Jotun to Asgard, instead of living in fear of it being found out, and I'm going to do it in a way that they have to sympathize with me and revere me in death, bc they never bothered to do so when I was alive. And Matt Damon should play me, also.) 

to 

Point C (Yeah, I guess I feel kinda awkward about that whole tantrum thing, also I should help Thor and support him being king.)

? 

The answers to these questions are handwaved and the audience takes that to mean they don't matter. Furthermore, framing Loki's redemption around an act of service (more or less) to Thor makes Loki's redemption about Thor. Does Loki make this decision for the sake of Thor and of Asgard, or does he make it for himself? It's not super clear to me, and I think arguments can be made for both. Which, again, is fine, but - whatever.

If we're going to collectively agree, as a fandom, that Loki is complex, that he's morally gray, that he's worthy of redemption and therefore arguably a good person who's done bad things, then why is it asking too much to have it acknowledged that Thor (also a good person who's done bad things) played a part in Loki's downfall and has shit to apologize for, too? Bc one can only assume the reason is that you're taking a very gray concept and making it black and white by saying Loki has to apologize and make amends because he is the villain, and Thor doesn't because he is the hero (and it's his movie). And it's lazy.

This is where the crux of the issue lands. There's more than one valid interpretation, yes. And no two people (or groups of people, or whatever) are going to consume and therefore interpret or analyze the source material in the same way. I think I saw a post recently about how studies have been done on this, in fact. But, there is a lot going on under the surface that tends to get overlooked when exploring Loki's redemption arc in Ragnarok, as far as I can see, and that’s why I don’t consider it satisfactory. 

[I did read similar arguments regarding other issues that are often debated ('debated'), like Loki's magic and/or being underpowered, whether or not Loki's betrayal of Thor was the natural outcome of the situation on Sakaar or not, whether Thor actually gets closure with Odin [if he does, how does he reconcile the father he's idolized with the imperialistic conqueror he's discovered? Why doesn't he hold Odin responsible for covering up Hela's existence and the threat of her return, especially as he knew he was nearing the end of his life? Is Thor's "I'm not as strong as you" meant to imply that he acknowledges those shortcomings of Odin's and that he's okay with them, or that he's just overlooking them, or is he not okay with them but didn't have the chance to get into it bc he was in the middle of battle? T'Challa confronted his father on his wrongdoings in Black Panther; could Thor not have had at least one line that was confrontational enough to establish where he stands as opposed to this gray middle? Can someone explain to me how any of this equates to Thor gaining closure? Please?) but obviously I'm not going to go into all of them (well, I tried not to), bc this mammoth post has gone on long enough (I may not even post this tbh)]

- but my overall point to this entire thing is that when I say I'm critical of Ragnarok bc it's flawed, that Loki's arc was neither complete nor satisfactory, that many things went unaddressed and, due to all of these things, I do not think Ragnarok is a very good movie nor a very cohesive movie, this is where I'm coming from. I have not seen anything to change my mind to the contrary. 

But I am not saying that anyone satisfied with it is wrong, or shouldn't have the interpretation that they do. I'm not vilifying Thor in order to lift Loki up, just acknowledging that Thor is arguably just as flawed as Loki without the stigma of being Designated Villain. I think a lot of these arguments get overlooked or dismissed, and that's fine, but it doesn't make the people who do engage with them hateful, or bitter, or trying to excuse Loki's crimes, or feeling like redemption means that Loki's crimes should be erased rather than reconciled. 

And sure, yes, perhaps we are expecting too much and exploring all of these themes (or wanting them explored) means that somehow we think it should be Loki's movie (we don't). Loki is a supporting character, but he's still a character. And the movie itself doesn't have to delve into all these things - no one's saying that. (At least, I'm not.) We just want acknowledgement, from the narrative, that this stuff was an Issue. 

This could have been accomplished with - 

Some dialogue closer to the novelization (and original script), like Thor and Loki both acknowledging the harm they've done one another and their kingdom due to their Feels.

 A single line of Thor confronting Odin, or even asking "Why?" 

A narrative acknowledgement that Odin did both Thor and Loki dirty (”I love you, my sons” isn't an apology, because it doesn't acknowledge either that there's been wrong-doing or express regret for having done the wrong in the first place). 

A little bit more nuance in the way Loki treats his own past (ie, instead of flippantly telling the story of his suicide attempt, maybe - if it must be flippant - talk about getting blasted in the face with Hawkeye's arrow or sailing through to Svartalfheim [And in that moment, I sang ta-daaaa!]) or whatever. 

I recognize that wanting full, in-depth exploration on all of these issues regarding a supporting character is probably too much to ask or expect - but, I also feel like, if you're going to be professionally writing a narrative (or rewriting/improvising, as it were), it's not too much to ask that a little more care be taken in regards to all of the layers that have contributed to said supporting character's downfall and subsequent redemption arc. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want. 

And maybe if there had been more nuance and continuity in how these things were portrayed on screen (ie, if TW had actually done as good a job as his stans think he did), the fandom wouldn't have divided and conquered itself over which "version" of the same character is more valid and whether or not the film did its best to close out a trilogy (not start a new one), to the point where everyone in this fandom space makes navigating it feel like walking through a minefield. 

But, I mean 

(Again, please don’t reblog if possible.) 

Edit: Okay to reblog. <3