#c!quackity on his ultimate torturer arc

[bleue-flora]

If I wrote a multi fandom fanfic it would literally just be Arrow’s Oliver Queen, Supernatural’s Dean Winchester, MCU’s Loki and Bucky Barns, and c!Dream imprisoned in Minecraft’s favorite torture box, Pandora’s Vault, with c!Quackity and his bag of tools… what does that say about me?…

[cdroloisms]

Hi! Just for your input on a definitely hypothetical scenario that I would never write anything about… Someone has locked c!Dream and c!Quackity in a room together for many months, without weapons, and neither of them are able to die. How are they dealing with their new life?

uhhhhh.miserably ... ? 😂

honestly given the death immunity i think c!dream takes this as exposure therapy. he is sooooooooo not afraid. there'd be quite some beating each other up ifl ... on c!Dream's front, there's the fact that he's Not Scared, c!Quackity is a little pussy, he's completely helpless in a real fight, etc. and c!Quackity is a fucking idiot picking fights he can't win (except sometimes he does, because he hits on some button in Dream's head that makes him freeze up or play dead.) there'd also probably plenty of attempted avoiding and ignoring each other, because honestly. they can't really stand each other, LOL.

the thing with q and dream here, i think, that is obviously very different from daedalus + sam and dream's whole deal is that ... there's just not much they want out of each other. quackity didn't Change suddenly to dream, necessarily--he's never been close to the guy, his introduction to quackity really pivots pretty quickly to him siding with schlatt, who we know dream did not think positively of at all and brought up to quackity during the mexican lmb debates, and nothing after that really helps his impression of the guy at all. at best, quackity is stupid--at worst, he's someone who creates fights that he can't follow through with at a frankly alarming rate, he's someone with a random ass bone to pick with dream and won't hesitate to Start Some Bullshit to make it dream's problem, and he's a completely incompetent leader that would rather seek conflict that blows up in everyone's face than compromise. obviously the torture is an escalation of all of that, but as far as he's concerned quackity was never someone to really draw close to and always someone that had a chip on his shoulder and too little common sense for his own good. he's got no reason to try and understand why quackity did Alluvthat or anything--it's quackity! who gives a shit! fuck that guy! on a similar note, while obviously quackity is more parasocial about dream than the other way around, quackity isn't trying to pick dream's brain and everything he actually wants from dream won't come to him in a room where they're forced to spend time together as "equals" in a certain forced physical sense. he doesn't give a fuck about what dream thinks, he doesn't care about how dream feels, all that matters is 1) the power dream has both by being dream (tm) and a sort of figurehead on the server and the literal power he had to get in quackity's way back in the day, neither of which really do much for either of them at the minute with zero power over their current circumstances, and 2) revenge on the guy because he fucking hates him and because he is scared of dream fucking with him/his countrywhat have you (in large part because, yknow, of the torture thing) only there's zero progress to be made on that front either in the situation that they've been forced in. i don't see aaaaaaany kind of emotional realizations about the other one really happening because Who Gives A Shit if dream/quackity has feelings, Not Me is a sentiment kind of shared here--at most it's knowledge that can be used against the other, make fun of them or whatever, but even any satisfaction from that would be pretty dulled by the whole stuck together in a get along shirt thing.

ultimately i think they'd hate the whole thing, come out the other side hating the other guy more, fight some ignore each other even more because honestlyneither of them can stand each other like, at all LOL. worst fucking roommates arc ever

[dreamsclock]

I was halfway through a post abt how c!Bad isn’t victim-blaming c!Tommy by having empathy for c!Dream, and I was gonna reblog it right up to the last sentence where they said c!Dream was gaslighting c!Sam in prison to make him feel bad 😭 Bitch wtf

Its still surreal to me that ppl think c!Dream was gaslighting c!Sam during the prison arc. Even if you believe c!Dream is the most evil unredeemable cartoon villain in the world he literally had no power in that situation. Like dont u think he’d gaslight his way into not eating raw potatoes all the time or something

Maybe I would b willing to give Dream antis the benefit of the doubt if it weren’t for the fact most of them have no critical thinking skills and they send random ppl death threats for liking a fictional dude smh

it’s a shame people don’t realise “c!bad has empathy for c!tommy but is frustrated by him” and “c!bad has empathy for and maybe even cares for c!dream” can coexist as takes :’) like ! they’re not mutually exclusive !! especially considering nobody really seems to know about exile !!

re: c!dream gaslighting in prison…. are people forgetting c!sam is THE gaslighter girlboss ?? /lh but seriously, c!sam gaslights the hell out of c!bad (and probably other characters but i only specifically remember c!bad). what makes anyone think anything he says about prison activities can be trusted??

i don’t doubt that c!dream was doing his best to manipulate c!sam and c!quackity and his visitors, you know, Because He Was In A Horrific Situation And Was Trying To Escape Slash Survive (and also that’s just. how he rolls.) but GASLIGHT is a funny one.

literally what could he even gaslight c!sam about. “sam Ur crazy. quackity already came to torture me today. don’t u remember. pls don’t let him back in oh my god haaahahahaaa” LIKE ??

c!dream was probably using every tactic in the book to make life even slightly easier for him in prison (faking being worse injured to try and get c!quackity to stop torturing him, lying about escape plans to c!sam, calling c!quackity sir to get on his ‘good side’) but i think the important thing about c!dream’s ‘manipulation’ here is that ultimately he was doing anything he possibly could to survive. nobody blames an abuse victim for doing things underhand to survive. it’s no wonder c!dream was doing those things and i don’t think they should be held against him as like. acts of evil and villainy. when we have c!awesam “gaslight gatekeeper guilt trip” dude to deal with ����

[balillee]

i will say this now, and you can hate me for it

c!dream's current arc doesn't mean that he's gonna be redeemed. nothing has pointed to his character being redeemed.

sure, c!quackity and c!sam stand as his personal villains right now, but there can be multiple villains that stand against each other. c!schlatt and c!wilbur served as the primary villains of the back half of season 1, and they were on opposite sides.

c!dream is no less a villain and an abuser just because he too has become a victim of someone else. there has been no inclination that he is becoming a better person or will start to do so - there has, however, been evidence that directly contradicts that, such as ghostbur's death. just because we feel sympathy for his position, doesn't mean i sympathise with him as a person.

c!dream is multi-layered. no matter how evil you are, twice a day torture is going to leave you petrified and subservient, but that doesn't make him any less evil. there has been no evidence to prove that his mindset towards c!wilbur or c!tommy has changed, among others. he may yearn for faces he thinks he can trust, such as c!sapnap or c!sam, but that doesn't mean he ultimately cares about them - all this implies is that he, at one point, relied on them somewhat to protect his position, and he wants that protection back because he is vulnerable and facing the threat of his own death. we saw him squirm once before - the season 2 finale when he was scared that c!tommy would take his last life, and he brought up the revive book as his last lifeline. this is that exact same desperation we saw then.

he is terrified, and this has revealed a new side to him that we haven't seen before. but, as far as we're aware, he's still c!dream. he still has a god complex, he still has power through the revive book that he has exercised freely, he still relies on the same faces and he still has that same outlook on c!tommy as he did when he revived him. it's just that he's also afraid of losing his life, and so around the person he's most afraid of, he will regress and become desperate and meek.

[ceykore]

yes c!ponk did nothing in the dsmp season finale. yes i'm going to make this post all about her <3

i haven't been keeping up to date with c!ponk as much as i used to but if i'm not mistaken, c!ponk and c!sam have reconciled their differences for the time being, i'm assuming that was going to be in preparation for the finale... c!sam is obviously distraught over the events that took place today and although not spoken, feels like he's given up on tracking down c!dream. when i would think about c!dream escaping, i thought that c!sam would run around like a madman trying to find him and kill him or something, but it feels like he's not trying as hard. all his effort went into keeping the prison in check and keeping c!dream in. now that c!dream is out, it feels like he doesn't know what to do with himself :/

i can see this going a few ways for ponk. if she's truly forgiven sam, then she would try to comfort and console sam, but i kinda doubt this route, maybe due to my own frustration. if i were ponk right now, knowing that every prisoner who was in pandora's vault has escaped, meaning that ponk's death and torture was ultimately for nothing, i would be oh so frustrated. sam did what he did to ponk to "prove a point". to prove to the rest of the server not to mess with the prison or there will be consequences. compared to what happened to ponk, there hasn't been really any consequences for anybody :/ not to foolish who started to mine up the prison because he was bored. not to michael mcchill who wanted to break dream out -- he only got a stern talking to.

if ponk happens to be patient in an eventual confrontation with sam, then maybe she'll help revitalize some life into sam as well as some confidence that he can successfully protect the server. they'll go on a nice walk together and talk out their frustrations. however, this talk would probably come to bite their relationship in the ass again because sam would probably lie about the events. he would lie about secretly locking techno in prison, he would lie about quackity torturing dream and him allowing it, etc. lie by omission of course. these truths will eventually come out through dream talking about his experience and possibly relaying that information to punz.

if ponk does what i would consider to be appropriate by bringing up the fact that not only did sam hurt her, but ended up hurting the entire server, then that'll probably end up with sam being defensive about his whole prison arc. it would most likely end up in a screaming match between the two of them and hopefully conclude with a bomb ass monologue from ponk talking about change and impact.

right now, ponk is on the list of possible allies with sam even after this tumultuous season finale. i'm not sure if ponk could benefit sam much though. right now, nearly the entire server resents sam for what's happened, but maybe ponk will turn around and be sam's rock, even when everyone else seems to hate him.

[blockmengobrr]

Giving my favorite c!DSMP characters oddly specific ratings and explaining why I like their arcs — a post:

c!Sam: A once noble man becomes slowly obsessed with the concept of justice through gaining power as a prison warden, gradually destroying his relationships, becoming colder and colder as he isolates himself away from those he cares about. He tries justifying literally amputating his lover’s arm in the name of “law and order”, yet passively allows his rules to be broken in order to allow his prisoners to be tortured for selfish gains. And yet, he still believes he is a good person, trying to keep peace on the server, and puts his all into it. Overall, 8.6/10. This character makes me angry, which means he is written really well. I love the contrast between how Sam perceives himself and how his actions reveal his true colors. I want to write him a strongly worded letter and send him to the time out corner.

c!Dream: A character that started off as arguably just an antagonist but evolved to become a true villain. He seems to feel completely justified in his many abusive and harmful actions because he feels that they will ultimately help the server come together (under him, of course) and become friends. He systematically isolated and abused a teenager over the span of several months, wearing down at his sanity until he was nearly driven to suicide. (I still don’t understand how they got always with adding a plotline this dark into the block game role play, but damn it was well executed). c!Dream also attempted to cut all of his attachments, which he viewed as making him weak, yet ironically, his last remaining attachment (c!Techno) might end up being his saving grace to escape the persistent and severe torture he has endured in prison. This character also canonically homeless and writes wattpad fanfiction?? Overall, 8.9/10. A very chilling villain that I could understand sympathizing with in the first half of the story, but has since caused nearly irreparable harm. Is he redeemable? I don’t know man, don’t ask me. I just want him to get out of the torture box but also stay far, far, far away from c!Tommy and the other characters that he hurt.

c!Tubbo: An deeply kind and compassionate character that is forced to endure trauma and make incredibly tough decisions again and again, to the point where he cannot properly express his emotions. He finds it necessary to build up walls (literally and figuratively) and create actual nuclear weapons to experience the fleeting sense of safety and security. Despite being pushed around and being dragged into many different conflicts, he has found contentment with his friends and husband… even if they really don’t communicate their feelings nearly as much as they should. Overall, 9.1/10. I would rate him higher but I get too sad thinking about how his character just doesn’t get to deal with his emotions and traumas often. I want to wrap c!Tubbo in a blanket and give him some chamomile tea.

c!Wilbur: A once pacifistic and idealistic man gets hit with tragedy and becomes consumed by his ideals, trapped in a paranoid spiral that leads him to tragically end his life and harm those he cared about, only to come back once again to have a second chance at healing. He cares deeply about the people around him, but has difficulty trusting them and ends up being possessive over those who become close. For his entire time on the server, he has always wanted to build something that will long outlive him. Overall, 9.5/10, I’m always down for some ~~spicy~~ angst and tragedy. I also like how cc!Wilbur seems to be subverting the audience expectations around his character being “evil”. I want c!Wilbur to find peace with himself and enjoy the sunset.

c!Quackity: A confident and charismatic man, once happy and surrounded by friends, endures an abusive relationship and loses his home time after time again. He desperately desires to gain a position of power in order to feel safe and secure, something he hasn’t experienced since the beginning of the server. He is willing to do nearly anything to gain more power — he is willing to manipulate his allies, and go so far as to torture and murder his enemies to achieve his goal of safety. After gaining temporary happiness with his friends and fiancés, he gradually loses each of those relationships over time, becoming more isolated and paranoid as he shifts his focus onto building his new project… a new nation… a new vessel for power. And yet, he cares about his friends. Despite being capable of doing great harm to those around him, he is also capable of great kindness. As of this moment, however, this kindness is reserved towards very few people. Overall 10/10. I just adore this character. I want him to scam people with his casino and fuck shit up!! I also want him to just idk. Relax in a hot tub or something and reconnect with his friends. I just want to see more of him in general please,,,, cc!Quackity is such a good actor and is really convincing in his role!!!

And finally, last but certainly not least

c!Techno: Listen,,,,, I understand that there might not appear be as much depth and trauma to this character. But, have you considered that he’s funny. The deviously sarcastic energy this man radiates is very contagious, I always get a stupid evil little grin when I watch his little block character commit war crimes. He is also one of the few characters that has actually had a positive arc! He went from an isolated, mistrustful, cynical man that seemed to value violence as the highest form of communication to a confident person who has learned to understand the value of forming relationships and develop and spread his ideology through less… war-crime-y means. Watching him overcome his social anxiety just hit different, I loved watching his character develop friendships with the people around him and learning how to express his care for them. I also love watching c!Techno just be an Utter Asshole, willing to completely rock someone’s shit over what would be minor disagreements for literally anyone else. This man is just dangerously committed to his ideology and ridiculously unwavering on like all of his decisions. I want to know why his character values the things he does so much, it seems like through context clues you can tell he’s had some bad experiences in the past and I am intrigued!!! He’s just a pig with character flaws that woke up and chose violence and I love that for him. 11/10 Very funny man who does funny things, guaranteed fun POV. I want him to have a snowball fight with the Syndicate. (and also maybe learn to actually change his mind and apologize to the people he hurt? Maybe?)

Honorable mentions include: c!Tommy (love this character, very well acted, kudos to cc!Tommy! I get frustrated and also sad thinking about him tho 8.5/10). c!Slimecicle (love this character concept and just want to see more. Immortal funny slime man please I need more 8.4/10), c!Ranboo (as someone with anxiety this character is just A Mood. Like same dude lmao hope you figure out your memory and all your personal shit 8.3/10), and c!Philza (all c!Phil knows is commit crimes, love wife, and be immortal 8.2/10 love him).

I basically like all of the DSMP characters but this was just a list of my favs. Feel free to add on!

[enderwalking]

🐺🙂😈 <- but mostly wondering about redeemability for all three tbh

so the questions here are "Should Wilbur get a redemption arc?", "Should Dream get a redemption arc?", and "Is Quackity a villainous character?". and by your phrasing, i'm going to assume the question you're wanting to ask is "are these characters redeemable?" so i'll focus my efforts around answering that.

to preface my answer, i'd like to link this post by my dear good friend and roommate isaiah aetherknit; they made it over a year ago at this point, but it still holds up and it is an excellent summary of my personal view of morality on the dream smp as well. (also if you're not following isaiah what are you even doing here, they're terrifically based and also the best artist/writer of all time, also they basically built c!dnf from the ground up with their bare hands) if you don't feel like clicking through to the post, i'll just pull a couple of the main quotes i want to highlight:

i care way less about whether a character is morally good or bad or right or wrong – i want to know why they did it.

and also

when we talk about redemption, we aren’t talking synonymously about repentance. i don’t talk about redemption as in “can i forgive this character?” i want to know if SOCIETY can forgive this character. will they be welcomed back by the world at large if they eventually feel guilt over their actions and attempt to be better? will the victims forgive them?

that, in essence, is how i view morality and redemption in the dsmp, as well as in broader fiction. i love c!dream, c!wilbur, and c!quackity so, so much; they are all among my top tier favorite characters. and they have all caused a lot of hurt. can they become better? going by my view of real-life morality, sure, i believe that every person in the world has the capacity to change themselves and become better people, given the appropriate time and resources. but these aren't real people, and while the society in which they operate may mirror real life, applying the same logic and morality we do in real life that we do to fictional narratives is ultimately just kinda. boring. i don't like stories and characters because they operate in the same moral framework that i think the real world should operate in; i like stories and characters that show me something interesting and make me feel emotions! and i like when characters are understandable and when their reactions are consistent with their experiences!

so, by that definition of redemption, let's go one by one. (under the cut because god do i talk too much)

do i think c!wilbur is redeemable? well, he's clearly trying to be. c!techno, c!tubbo, and c!eret have all explicitly forgiven him. c!fundy likely never will. jury is still out on c!niki. and c!tommy, well, that's a Whole can of worms that i don't have the time to go into. do i personally find him forgivable for his actions? yes, i do, because i understand his perspective, and i can sympathize with his reasons for acting the way he did.

do i think c!quackity is redeemable? that depends. do i personally find him forgivable? again, honestly, yes. months of repeated daily torture is a fucked up thing to do, but again, i understand why he did it, and i find his reasons sympathetic. do i think c!dream will forgive him? that's a whole different question that i could honestly see going either way (c!dream has some fucked up views of his own personhood, what can i say). do i think the server at large would forgive and accept c!quackity for his crimes? that vastly depends on the individuals, and either way i think it would be a very interesting source of conflict that i would love to see explored.

now for the kicker: do i think c!dream is redeemable? again, it depends. do i think that c!tommy or c!tubbo, for instance, could or should ever forgive and accept c!dream? Absolutely Fucking Not. i think they are both well within their rights to want c!dream dead and gone forever. do i think the server at large would ever accept c!dream? well, i think c!george would. and i think ultimately, if c!dream did prove that he was trying to be better, that c!sapnap also would. maybe a couple others. but for the most part, i highly doubt it; even if he did attempt reparations, i think enough people have soured views of him that there's no way that he could ever go back to just living amongst everyone the way he used to. and honestly, i don't think he should after everything. ideally, i would like for him to eventually see the error of his ways and realize that his plans are not worth the harm he has caused other people, and i can definitely see that happening at some point in the future, but i don't see that leading to a zuko-style arc where he's eventually accepted as One Of The Guys; i just don't think that would make sense for him or for the other characters involved.

now do i, personally, find c!dream's actions forgivable? it's...complicated. technically, the answer is no. like, his treatment of c!tommy is fucked, and i don't think any amount of reasoning can make his decision to do All That understandable to me. (there's a whole different essay i could write about c!tommy and abuse and the different ways in which he has experienced abuse and the different levels of intention and care his abusers have had, but i'll leave that for another time when i am feeling less kind haha.) however, that doesn't mean i don't find him enjoyable as a character, and it definitely doesn't mean i can't find him sympathetic at all! obviously i'm still out here loving him and analyzing the fuck out of his actions because i find him extremely compelling. it just means that on that particular note i'm like, my brother i am Not on your side with this one it does not matter what you say lmao

i think it's understandable, however, that for other people when they can't forgive c!dream it means that they stop caring about anything beyond the wrongs he's done unto their favs. i'm basically that way about c!sam, like i can recognize that he had his reasons and that he can be an interesting character in his own right, but i personally don't care to talk about or analyze him because my primary thought when it comes to c!sam is he murdered my boy. so i don't necessarily begrudge the c!inniters for doing the same with c!dream lol

ALL IN ALL, to answer the original questions from the ask meme: should wilbur get a redemption arc? i mean, he's already in the process of one. is quackity a villainous character? depends on who you're talking to; to dream, yes. to foolish, yes. to someone like tommy, no. all about perspective! and should dream get a redemption arc? well i want him to see the error of his ways, but i'm not particularly interested in seeing him do an apology tour a la wilbur or in seeing him be universally accepted by the server after everything; i just don't think it would be narratively satisfying for anyone involved.

[moriphyte]

I know defending quackity for dream's torture makes peeps uncomfortable but man idk nothing about goes against my moral compass and maybe that means I have something wrong with me but man Big Q just makes me feel safe. He makes me feel safe because even after he's beat he doesn't lie down and take it, he doesn't shut up, he's angry and violent but he's calm with Tommy, he cares and that makes me feel safe. I don't see him as a protective force, bitch is such a weak little man that I bet even my brittle boned ass could take him, but he's rather an enduring force, he survived meaning so can I. He doesn't preach peace like philza because he knows it's unattainable for people on the bottom.

He's safe man

(also this maaaaaaay be because I was raised in a religion that doesn't see violence as inherently bad because we were consistently oppressed by the dominant religion, idk mate sometimes u gotta beat a green tellytubby to an inch of their life before he destroys everything dear to you)

Idk man I know ultimately giving into hate is bad and that any movement propelled by hate will ultimately cannibalise itself but I just feel that anger is different from hate. Anger protects you, hate grows like a parasite and consumes you, and big Q is a character that plays with the difference between the two and I just wish discussions of him went beyond "man he be girboss, but I don't support torture cause I'm a good Christian"

first of all everything you said about quackity is absolutely correct. he’s strong in that he is a survivor, he’s enduring, and he’s done what he’s had to do, no matter how gruesome, to protect himself and the people he cares about. similarly to wilbur he is hopeless when it comes to fighting but he’s good with people and he knows how to use his words to get what he wants, he’s had to to survive. as for torturing dream, i think the reasoning behind it is a lot more complicated than it seems. on the surface there is the reason quackity openly gives, which to obtain the revive book. technically it is true that quackity wanted the revival book, and was torturing dream to get it, but it was never because schlatt won their bet. quackity owes nothing to the ghost of his abusive ex and i find it hard to believe he would do something as extreme as daily torture for months just do do a favor for a man he hates. however i do think quackity wanted the revival book both to take that power away from dream so they could finally kill him, and to take some power for himself. quackity was in the darkest part of his revenge arc. he was the remnants of a good man who was quickly being lost to vengeance. he hadn’t yet realized with the help of charlie that revenge would only ever hurt everyone involved and continue on endlessly unless the cycle was stopped. he was lying to sam, manipulating people into joining his country, and torturing the man that has done more harm to the server than anyone else. and that’s the real reason he was torturing dream, because he murdered tommy, he hurt one of the few people quackity truly cares about, and after all the pain he’s caused the server big q decided to take justice into his own hands. now i can’t say i like the torture, but more because of its effects on the story than my own personal moral opinions. first of all it brings undue sympathy to c dream, because torture is objectively horrible no matter who it’s happening to. however, when that person is a serial killer that has tortured multiple people and gets his kicks from abusing a kid? this sounds harsh but like…who the fuck cares? i have no sympathy for dream when it comes to the torture. the way i see it he experienced a small fraction of the pain he inflicted on others for research or in tommys case just sick fucking fun. second the torture ends up having the complete opposite effect that quackity wanted. he wanted to punish dream for what he did to tommy, serve the justice that is so often non existent on the server, but it backfired as revenge always does. dream was already fucked in the head, like no normal person would do what he did in exile even at their worst, but after months of isolation, starvation, and physical torture? he’s fucking unhinged. when he was chasing tommy he literally repeated the exact line quackity said to him in the prison “i’m going to make your life a living hell” just another example of revenge hurting everyone involved, especially the person the revenge was for. now dream is hunting tommy, and of course that would have happened regardless of quackity torturing him, but it’s also clearly had a psychological effect on dream. he already found torturing and abusing a child “fun” but now? whatever boundaries he may have still had are gone. and that actually relates to the last and darkest part of why quackity was torturing dream, and that comes from dream himself. at one point quackity says “i’m getting tired of this, i don’t even know why i’m doing this anymore” and dream screams back “you’re doing it because you like it!” and initially quackity dismisses this before reconsidering and admitting that maybe he does like it. and the thing is, the only reason dream knows that, the only reason he could see whatever small part of big q did truly like torturing him, is because he recognizes it. their motivations couldn’t be more different, but the end result is something dream recognizes in quackity. dream enjoys torturing tommy because it’s entertaining, quackity enjoys torturing dream because it’s vindicating.

[stellocchia]

There has been a lot of discourse within the fandom about what should happen with c!Dream. I’ve seen anything from “he should get to go apeshit, he deserves it” to “just death” and there is a whole spectrum in between that has been explored and talked about. 

So, here are my general thoughts on the c!Dream situation.

As I said in the past I think the whole torture plot is a mistake. A whole big mess that was entirely useless aside from gathering sympathy for c!Dream in the cheapest possible way. I don’t know what they were thinking with it, but my best bet on it is that they wanted a way to humanize c!Dream and somehow thought that this was a good way for some reason. It wasn’t. Torture is physical abuse to an extreme, it doesn’t make people better or more humane, it just breaks them. It’s an awful and inhumane treatment that no one should go through, no matter how bad they are. 

That said, that happened now and they have to deal with it. How do you deal with it though? Because obviously, every single way will leave someone unsatisfied. 

If they just kill off c!Dream a lot of people will be let down because they made this character go through torture for nothing. It would all have been worthless and we would feel cheated of a storyline. That’s the problem of the “angst for angst” sake thing. You can do it, but it’s not the best execution. 

If c!Dream comes out and he’s suddenly a better person there are 2 problems that you incur. The first problem is the message it would send of “torture can fix people” which is obviously fucked up. Like, extremely fucked up. And the second problem is that it would put pressure on c!Dream’s victims to forgive him. And even if they avoid doing THAT in the story, the fandom will provide more than enough pressure and toxicity for real-life victims of abuse to feel unsafe (mostly looking at Twitter right now, but not only). 

Then there are people clamoring to have the Syndicate help c!Dream heal, which, aside from the fact that 2 of them have been his victims to varying degrees and should not have to deal with him at all, presents the problem that a healing arc is not the same as redemption (which sadly is a problem that we have with other arcs as well *cough* Niki *cough*). C!Dream healing from the torture would not mean him becoming a better person, not if he doesn’t start regretting everything he’s done before to hurt others and not if he doesn’t distance himself from the need for power and control. It also would feel incredibly unfair for him to be able to have a peaceful healing arc when his victims were never afforded one. A healing arc with no redemption is a cheap cop-out from having to deal with the heavy topics that they introduced. 

There is also the option of having c!Dream go far away from everyone else which simply has the same exact problem as the death option. It would cheat us out of a storyline that has had more build-up now than the whole of the butcher army thing in season 2. 

So the last option is unsurprisingly what I prefer...

Have c!Dream stay a piece of crap but have his experiences influence him. Have him flinch away from pain, have him try to find allies because he finally understands that he cannot achieve what he wants on his own, have him learn, but not become a better person because of it. 

Now, I know that there could be the problem of sending the message that “some people are simply irreparably evil” like this, but not if it’s handled well. If handled well they could do something similar to what they are doing with c!Wilbur. 

C!Wilbur didn’t suddenly become a good person after coming out of 13 years of isolation. He was not put in an environment that allowed that so it didn’t happen. He is arguably worse now. But that does work, it makes sense. 

If they handle this right the message would not be “some people simply can’t change”, the message would be “you need proper conditions and will to change for the better”. And that’s the thing, that’s why I want him to learn and change his behaviour according to his experiences. Show us that he is capable of change, that he is human, and that the horrific things he experienced did change him, but not for the better.

To help this more we could have some c!Dream backstory for his fall from grace. Showing him change from a chaotic but still ultimately neutral individual to the utter monster he was in season 2. That’s fine, it would do great to show that he wasn’t always necessarily evil, because he wasn’t. 

This way they could work with his and c!Wilbur’s arc in tandem. The two of them coming face to face with the other and seeing all the worst parts of themselves in the other. C!Dream seeing that c!Wilbur letting go of his own attachments to people through isolation brought him to self-destruct and c!Wilbur seeing what his desire for power can lead to, what kind of monster he could become if he let it consume him. Then it would be a conscious choice on both their parts on whether to continue down their path or not. It could be interesting to explore, even have it go 3 ways with some c!Quackity introspection in the mix to have the example of someone who doubles down on everything that led him to villainy.

[caketexturepack]

C!Dream, a redemption arc, and why it wouldn't work

Recently there have been many posts in the fandom expressing a common anxiety about c!Dream getting a redemption arc. And I have that anxiety too because I genuinely think that they won’t be able to pull it off.

Here is why a c!Dream redemption arc wouldn’t work.

Let’s start by looking at one of the most famous, and most successful redemption arcs of all time, Zuko’s. His redemption arc has become the blueprint for countless others, and that is because of three reasons.

He is never the main antagonist

His growth was not linear

Those he had hurt were not obliged to forgive him and had power in the situation

1. While DSMP has had a wide range of villains, ranging from alcoholic dictators to brother figures turned terrorists, c!Dream has remained a constant villain throughout the story of DSMP. From the early L’manberg days to even now while he’s trapped in Pandora’s box, throughout the narrative c!Dream has continued to hold onto the title of “the big bad”

Comparing this to Zuko, who while he was initially the first antagonist introduced to the gaang, that title was soon shared by Zhao. Besides being an antagonist force against the gaang, he was also an antagonist force against Zuko, instantly setting up the ground blocks towards Zuko's redemption arc and putting Zuko closer towards the same level as the Gaang, a child stuck in the middle of a war, trying to do what he thinks is right.

Now while Dream certainly thinks he is right, he’s never had another villain before Quackity at least, be an antagonist force towards him. Largely he HAS teamed up with the majority of the antagonist forces on the DSMP, taking on the role of the man in the shadows for Wilbur, Schlatt, and arguably Technoblade and Philza on doomsday. c!Dream has always been on the top of the narrative food chain, and when combined with his pvp skills, supplies, and power as server admin he holds an incredible amount of power over almost every server member.

2. C!Dream has been an incredibly linear straightforward character, he started as a moderately controlling power-hungry character and soon evolved into someone completely obsessed with control over every server member and an extreme god complex.

Throughout ATLA Zuko’s character growth has extreme ups and downs, he is often doubting the choices he’s made, whether they be good or bad, till midway of season 3. When given the chance to achieve his original dream of “redeeming” his honor and returning to the fire nation- Zuko takes it, betraying his uncle. But upon achieving his dream he soon realizes that he was in the wrong and that his true destiny is training the avatar and fighting against the fire nation. Zuko got everything he wanted, and he was still unhappy, and it was only because of his self-doubt and introspection was he able to see this mistake and jump back onto the path of redemption.

While we haven’t been able to see c!Dreams perspective (though one day we may if cc!Dream ever finishes editing) at no point have we seen c!Dream has doubts in his actions or his worldview. Any time he is confronted with opposing ideas or examples to prove otherwise, his convictions only become stronger and he in turn only becomes more twisted. For him to suddenly have the sparks of self-doubt in his actions after torture in prison? It would be poor writing and unrealistic, torture doesn’t make people better, it makes them worse.

3. While redemption can be earned without forgiveness, in the context of c!Dreams actions against the members of the server and specifically c!Tommy, c!Dreams redemption would be impossible to truly achieve without forgiveness, which is, in turn, an impossible thing to attain.

When Zuko tries to join the gaang in season 3, he understands and accepts the fact that the Gaang justifiably hate him and have no reason to trust him. He apologies, and never becomes defensive when they express their anger and distrust towards him. Zuko accepts this with patience and only after this acceptance does the gaang slowly begin to let him in, with Zuko continuously putting in the work to build trust all the while. Another key point when Zuko was trying to join the gaang was the fact that they had all the power in the situation, he was entirely on his own with no one backing him and he even offered himself up as a prisoner.

c!Dream on the other hand holds tremendous amounts of power. Pre the prison arc he was one of the richest server members, an incredible pvper, the admin of the server, and very manipulative. Since the prison, he has lost some of his power (which could easily be achieved again if he escaped) but with his manipulative abilities, he still holds power over the server members in general, specifically the bench trio who are all positively terrified of him.

The strongest example of his power is the revival book which he has memorized and has shown no hesitation in using when beneficial to him. c!Dream knows entirely that revival is a painful traumatic process, but has continuously ignored that fact and even declared that he wants to study it and achieve immortality. c!Dream will always have this extreme level of power over everyone on the server.

Nearly every member of the server has at least a moderate fear of c!Dream, with of course the clingy duo having the most extreme fear. c!Tubbo was nearly murdered by c!Dream and was heavily manipulated, and of course c!Tommy was murdered, abused, kidnapped, and manipulated by c!Dream as well as being the subject of his twisted obsession. If c!Dream was to be released, they would be constantly looking over their shoulders for the rest of their lives and be unable to heal from their trauma. At no point has c!Dream shows remorse for his actions, only its consequences, he constantly believes that he is in the right.

The message it would send

One of the most common praises the DSMP receives, specifically cc!Tommy and cc!Dream, is how well they portrayed and handled abuse in the exile arc. Showing how abuse starts with isolation and then the cycle of abuse, showing c!Tommy has realistic reactions to abuse, him being suicidal and ultimately realizing he was abused and beginning his healing arc instead of committing suicide.

c!Dream from the beginning has been the main villain, and throughout the story he has never shown any regret or self-doubt towards his beliefs and actions, intent on spiraling down over his obsessive need for power and control.

If c!Dream was to be redeemed, forgiven, and given a healing arc, especially at the cost of c!Tommy’s healing arc. It would send a horrible narrative towards abuse victims. That they have to forgive their abusers, that they have to accept them back in their lives and if they don’t then they’re the ones in the wrong because their abusers are trying to change, trying to heal. To quote @stellocchia “a healing arc with no redemption is a cheap cop-out from having to deal with the heavy topics they introduced.”

But here’s the good news

cc!Wilbur has spoken on stream before about c!Dream and c!Tommy and how c!Dream was abusive towards c!Tommy. He is also writing the current arc and I believe is involved in the writing of Tommy’s lore. cc!Wilbur has handled dark topics masterfully before, and I have a lot of trust in him towards his writing of this arc.

As someone who was in the fandom during the exile arc, I remember the common fear that c!Tommy wouldn’t make it out alive and would either be murdered by c!Dream or take his own life. That was a real fear for a while that the arc would end in such a horrible mishandled way, but they defied expectations and instead created a one of hope.

DSMP has surprised and subvert our expectations many times, let’s hope that this fear is one they will subvert as well.  

[relaxxattack]

I think the biggest difference between c!dream and c! Quackity is like...Quackity canonically has had traumatic experiences, and has been hurt and killed and abandoned, and WEVE SEEN HIS PERSPECTIVE OF THAT! We've SEEN how it's affected him before this, and in all of his conversations where he's been manipulating foolish and Purpled and fundy, you can hear him projecting that trauma onto them. It doesn't make him not a villain, but i think his actions come from a more understandable place than Dreams-- and having that week long exile arc solidifies that for me, personally.

That being said, as wonderful as these cinematic streams are, it takes away from quackity's character a bit because we aren't getting his personal reactions anymore. Everything we see is colored by how he puts up a front for other people, so he can try and exert influence over them. We don't get those private moments anymore, and it worries me that quackity will lose that sympathetic quality he had as someone who was powerless and beat down resort to desperate acts to have power and safety.

Just my take on it as someone who's watched his POV for a long time, I know the torture thing put you off and regardless of my personal feelings on it I feel like it was a poor choice narratively speaking.

i agree with you!!! i completely agree

i don't want to do a disservice to quackity's streams at all-- because they're gorgeous and incredible-- but it also means we see a lot less of quackity. we only get his "necessary" story beats; the parts that have other people in them. the parts we could just as easily see from another pov.

his pov doesn't really have his pov anymore; it doesn't have the quiet self-reflection, the real-time reactions. it takes away the.... what's that word they use a lot for ghibli movies? "ma"? it takes away the "ma", which ultimately takes away the humanity of the characters, and what made them sympathetic in the first place.

i have nothing against quackity's streams, of course, they blow me away every time. i'm just pointing out that the type of stream very easily affects the way the audience feels about the character. if they're not allowed to take a moment to breathe, and feel, then how are they meant to sympathize?

(those bits where he was in tommy and jack's streams reacting to tommy's death + revival are so good)

that's just my opinion, though.

[bistaxx]

I still hope Quackity and Wilbur's arcs feature a moment where people just... leave them-

Specifically Tommy for Wilbur, I think Tommy leaving or turning against him would be the cause of a huge turning point for the character. Now Wilbur is a very tragic figure who has suffered a lot, but this doesn't excuse the fact that he treats Tommy very poorly, he does things seemingly without thinking too much about how his words and actions will affect the teen. Because he thinks Tommy wont leave, when Tommy considers siding with Las Nevada's Wilbur starts getting more aggressive and guilts Tommy into staying with him. He needs him, out of everyone Tommy was the one who never left his side for any reason aside from Wilbur's death. Tommy has stuck with him during his worse, he's not gonna leave now... right? Maybe for now, they have a weird sort of codependency going on, they both crave some stability in their lives but that constant is hurting Tommy and enabling Wilbur's more venomous traits, but I think doubt is starting to grow within Tommy. Tommy leaving is gonna hurt him a lot and it might make things worse before they get better but ultimately I think it would benefit the both of them.

Same applies to Q and the Las Nevadas peeps. Like as much as I have been on a meta-level enjoying watching the LN Crew grow closer with each other the fact that its founded on Q's lies and manipulation doesn't sit well with me. It's such a messy affair because on a surface level it's refreshing to see c!Quackity show shades of his former self and bond with these people but then you remember why they are even around him in the first place and just... :/ Even seeing the LN Crew bond with each has that sinister underlying feeling (almost cult-like sometimes? A little? ) They deserve to stand up and call him out for his BS. Quackity's a tough character to pin down because some of his manipulation bleeds in and out of genuine and he is growing closer with the others, but you can genuinely love someone and still be fucking awful to them (just like Wil with Tommy.) You can say you want someone to do something for their own sake when really it's just what you want them to do and you've simply deluded yourself too. Out of all of them I think if Slime ever leaves him that would be the one to hurt him the most. Or fuck it maybe even Sam whose stuck by Quackity the longest. If Las Nevadas is going to end in any way I would prefer this somber lonely death. Again it's going to hurt Quackity a lot, especially given how much of his self worth is tied to Las Nevadas in general but that's precisely why he needs this loss. It's reflective of the person he's become, charming and charismatic on the outside but cold and deceptive inside, planning and benefitting from their losses and suffering and convincing them he's just trying to help- sure maybe they'll hit a jackpot but can it make up for how much they've lost? But without anyone to benefit off of Las Nevadas is powerless, it can't sustain itself without people to prey off of. It's hollow. I really hope we get a moment where he reflects on how he's fallen from season 2 Quackity who, while he had his fair share of faults, most shinning trait was that he couldn't stand letting injustice slide and that lead to him standing up against Dream armed with his cunning and words (not needing to resort to brutal torture), from season 1 Quackity who challenged Wilbur in the first place because he didn't agree with an unfair election and genuinely wanted what was best for L'manberg, who put his foot down and turned against Schlatt when he couldn't stand by him any longer and fought back against him despite not being well-trained in combat, he wanted to help even if it had to be in a way that was disadvantages for him. Yes there are similarities to how he is now to other characters but he hasn't become the next 'Wiblur' or 'Schlatt' or 'Dream', he's become the kind of person his past self would've stood up against.

c!Wil and c!Q are very sad people and I feel for them, they have been heavily warped by grief and tragedy, but ,,, man do they need some wake-up calls

[cdroloisms]

can I have a refresher on the plot of the just him and me au? I got super brainrotty over it when y'all first made it but then i forgot my tumblr password for like ages

hello hello again anon! don't worry talking about jmah is like my bread and butter i can do it literally all day every day it's SO bad this AU changed my brain chemistry forever i stg 😭

here's a link to my tag on the AU, and if you go to @theminecraftbox kat also has her tag linked for you to look through a lot of JMAH rambling XD. For a general outline on the concept and timeline, JMAH (or just me and him AU) is a concept that starts with c!Sam, freshly killed at the end of the Daedalus arc, getting tp-ed back into his old body right as c!Tommy is about to enter for his first prison visit on January 21st, 2021. He comes to terms with what's going on pretty fast and decides that this time around, he's going to take things more seriously. This time, he's going to do it right.

That leads into the JMAH prison arc, which--true to the name of the AU--consists of just j!Sam and j!Dream for as long as j!Sam can manage it. Here's a quick rundown of major events:

January 21st, 2021 - j!Sam first gets tp-ed into the prison again. He prevents Tommy from actually ever visiting Dream, marching him out of the prison and immediately banning visitors to Pandora's Vault entirely. He goes back to the cell, freaks out at a very confused j!Dream, confiscating most of the items in the cell (taking the clock, blowing up the chest and lectern and cauldron to collect them), j!Dream's potatoes, and his mask. j!Dream fights when j!Sam tries to take his mask--it doesn't go very well. He gets pretty badly beaten and j!Sam himself doesn't come out unscathed either.

January 22nd, 2021 - j!Sam modifies the cell entirely--adds a lot more dispensers along the back, adding the crying obsidian, and most importantly adding a row of glass with a piston door to keep j!Dream locked in the back of the cell with only about two or three blocks of space from the glass to the back wall. A return system very similar to the one in c!Ponk's cell is installed. j!Dream is reeling and injured and kinda in shock about what the hell is going on with Sam, what - and as j!Sam starts putting harming potions in the dispensers above his head, he starts to realize that. Oh. He might be a little bit fucked.

January 24th, 2021 - j!Quackity tries propositioning j!Sam for Las Nevadas. j!Sam emphatically refuses, makes some weird implications about j!Quackity wanting to torture j!Dream (??? what ??? like not that the thought didn't cross his mind but what the FUCK??) and is ultimately pretty cagey and aggressive in ways that pretty thoroughly sour j!Quackity to the guy, especially when he learns about the weirdness that happened with j!Tommy's prison visit. The two of them start hanging out more, and in the process start theorizing that maybe j!Sam is in with the enemy--maybe j!Dream has played them all. (Around this time, j!Sam also seals up the Egg Room. Okay, problem boxed fixed, not his problem now!)

~March, 2021 - Lacking any updates from inside the prison, j!Ranboo sets off the TNT in a last ditch attempt to try and communicate with the man inside. j!Dream is heartened by the reminder that he's not been forgotten, but also faces Consequences for this. He's slowly coming to terms with j!Sam's deal and trying to figure out what the hell he's going to have to do to survive it and get out of here. On the other hand, the TNT freaks out j!Sam badly--even now, even after everything he's done, j!Dream is still hiding things from him. Still getting things past him. It's a pretty rough day for them both.

~ May 2021 - j!Quackity and j!Tommy's efforts to break into the prison to figure out what the hell is going on finally bears fruit in a convoluted, definitely-should-not-work-in-the-slightest-by-any-stretch-of-the-imagination kind of plan that. Miraculously. Somehow. Does manage to work, through a combination of j!Sam being a little too careless and distracted and hey like after you try different things like a hundred different times maybe you'll come up with something a little less bound to fail on step one and sheer, plain, dumb luck - they manage to break in while dragging Ghostbur with them, wanting information on what's going on (and j!Quackity, of course, looking for information on the revive book.) Once they get to the cell, all hell breaks loose - in the chaos, as j!Sam makes harming rain down from the dispensers to try and gain control, j!Dream ends up reviving j!Wilbur before j!Sam arrives in the cell. j!Sam maims and kills j!Quackity, taking two fingers and a life, and then once again throws j!Tommy out of the prison. IT's the first major deviance from the old timeline, and it is. a Huge blow to j!Sam, who has otherwise been convincing himself that everything has been running smoothly thus far. It's a awful cocktail of some of the moments from the old timeline where he felt the most out of control (taking Ponk's arm, watching Tommy die, being unable to stop Dream from reviving Wilbur, Quackity's visits) and it shakes him up badly. His relationships have been slowly burning as this timeline has proceeded - despite managing to not torture and maim j!Ponk this time around (woo great job for that one j!Sam) they had a very messy + very public breakup, j!Tommy's complaining hasn't really done his reputations any favors, cutting off the rest of the Badlands and not keeping j!Bad and j!Ant as guards hasn't helped their relationships at all, and he's also just . Been holing himself in the prison. This incident gets pretty publicized and only ends up making his reputation worse - and j!Sam ends up spending even more time within the prison.

~ November, 2021 - Tired of j!Sam's bullshit, j!Quackity's planning goes from 'trying to figure out what's going on' to full on Butcher Army, time to plan a coup. Enlisting j!Techno for the cause (hey, they've got to have a shared grudge against j!Sam, right?) he starts planning a takeover of the prison. He's going to take out j!Sam, trap him, j!Dream, and j!Techno inside the prison, and get the keycards for himself. Time for him to be top dog, whatever. His plan goes off pretty well...except for how j!Techno had a stasis pearl and manages to leave before he gets to him. Whoops. Still, he's got j!Dream and j!Sam and an axe he's been grinding for months--time to get the keycard and get the Revive Book and get his fucking revenge for good.

~ end of November, 2021 - j!Techno returns not too long after gathering some supplies necessary to break in and break out of the prison again, the weak points being. Much, much more shoddily patched together, given that they were fixed by j!Quackity. At this point, j!Quackity has been visiting the cell daily for about two weeks, mostly focusing on j!Sam because he's really fucking angry about the whole "oh yeah i maimed and killed you lol" thing and because...honestly j!Dream isn't even as fun or as satisfying, mans has a pretty high pain tolerance and isn't nearly as scared of him as he is of disappointing his Warden >:/. j!Techno arrives, j!Quackity books it the hell out of there, and he's left with j!Sam and j!Dream in the prison. He's here to break j!Dream out, obviously...but what to do with Sam? Dream tells him he'll handle it.

about a week later - j!Dream returns. j!Sam had told Quackity about the time travel, j!Dream wants the keycards (and with the threat of j!Quackity coming back, j!Sam is definitely pretty willing to give them over, relatively speaking) and...j!Dream wants answers. JMAH Daedalus goes on for a stretch of time that I don't think we firmly decided on before j!Dream kills j!Sam with an axe to the heart, and...j!Sam is left back at where he started. One life down and wondering how it all went so wrong.

Of course, these are just most of the main ~events~ in the timeline and honestly, these don't really touch on how things develop within the prison at all. That's covered more in other posts about JMAH--which, definitely check em out if you're interested :D Or ask more questions, of course. I'm always down to brainrot about themb.

[dreamsclock]

do u think there’s anyway that dream will get a happy ending in the rp?

gonna be honest: before the quackity stream, no, i didn’t.

now? i think it would be INCREDIBLY sketchy and odd if they let c!dream have an unhappy ending after all this.

see below the cut for why !! cut for length + heavy discussions about heavy subjects :]

warnings: torture, abuse, manipulation, discussions of morality, death/suicide discussions, violence.

there was such a heavy emphasis on his torture, and (something the smp actually does very well) humanising c!dream in that moment. they could have very well played him off as villainous and manipulative and conning c!quackity etc, but they didn’t, and i think that speaks for itself - c!dream isn’t The Big Bad, none of the characters are The Big Bad, the Big Bad of the series is revenge and violence and miscommunication, no single person.

and i’ll be frank, before the quackity stream, i was always very uncertain about some of my analyses, and some of the analyses of c!dream that i’ve seen. i always asked myself if c!dream was only sympathetic because i chose to view him as such or because i was biased to the villain or because i was reaching, or maybe even a result of poor writing - but it’s so so obvious now that’s not the case. humanising c!dream and making him so complex was a very deliberate move and his character IS as multifaceted as we think, and i’m incredibly glad for that.

don’t get me wrong, i don’t think his happy ending (or peaceful ending) will come for a bit. he’s being tortured, he’s in the worst situation the server has ever seen, the only people who know about it hate him and are allowing/causing it. if he returns to his old ways when he gets out - and he will get out - it won’t be a surprise to me, at all. 

but i don’t think they can, in good conscience, a) let c!dream meet his final end in prison (as in, that’s where his story ends and he never comes back) or b) return him to his old ways forever, because of several things.

for one, it wouldn’t be great narratively-speaking. looking at this from a writer’s perspective, we have an incredible set up of characters and plot right now - we, in theory, have our next three Human Antagonists in c!quackity, c!bad and c!wilbur, none of which are c!dream. it’s a perfect opportunity for him to have some sort of ‘redemption’ by fighting on the right side ie. against the egg and against the destruction of the server. why would they go back to using c!dream as a scapegoat for all the hurt on the server when they can move on to another?? 

not to mention !! the story is clearly beginning to angle towards the “everyone is morally grey and it’s the Nurture rather than Nature that’s bad” — to continue to portray c!dream as the ultimate evil would be cliched and it’s already been done. a far more interesting angle would be to look towards nobody being 100% good or 100% evil (something the smp already does very well).

furthermore, but secondly, the creators and scriptwriters are always very careful about the kind of messages they’re sending to their audiences: especially cc!dream, who is criticised constantly and scrutinised sharper than any other creator i’ve seen. it’s unfortunate, because he doesn’t deserve that amount of criticism for past mistakes or drama he’s not even involved in, and the unnecessary hate he gets makes me ill, but he is subsequently incredibly conscious of how things will look for him. i was confident c!tommy’s arc wouldn’t end with him dying to c!dream or at his own hands in exile, because a) poor storytelling and b) what kind of message would it send to fans? c!dream manipulated and destroyed c!tommy’s life in season two — to have c!tommy lose against his tormentor wouldn’t send a good message to the younger audience, even if it is fiction - it would upset a lot of people, especially people who had been through similar torment to c!tommy in regards to abuse/manipulation.

and while the whole message thing is a sketchy argument to some, it’s important to realise the other messages dream smp has implied or outright shown us so far: “you are strong enough to survive your circumstances” (c!tommy), “be loyal to your friends and to yourself” (c!tubbo), “severing attachments never works and it’s okay to have attachments to material things too” (c!dream), “the people you hold up on a pedestal are not always the heroes you think they are” (c!wilbur), and many many more. there are LOADS of lessons, ranging from rhetorical questions about how effective the lessons of violence are in communication to outright messages of choosing healing over revenge or vice versa (and the consequences of that). the dream smp is notorious for the messages it sends. one of these? nobody is 100% good or 100% evil. we see times where all characters are both, and i think killing c!dream would eradicate an opportunity to highlight this even more.

not to mention! think about the message it would send to the slowly amassing c!dream sympathisers/apologists + also the rest of the fandom. “when you hurt people because of mental illness/trauma, not only do you face torture and vilification, you will never have the chance to repent for your mistakes and make yourself a better person, and instead will be hurt yourself in tenfold and your past actions will ruin your life until you die”... i mean !! that’s a shitty message, especially with how much emphasis is being placed on c!dream’s torture and struggle right now.

thirdly (is that a word?? idek at this point) — i am a huge critic of the “it would be better if he died” argument. a huge critic of it. it might be my crippling fear of death LMAO, but in my mind, the idea of c!dream dying after everything he’s been through ?? just,, dying like that?? it makes me INCREDIBLY uncomfortable. and i understand the appeal in it: c!dream is in an awful situation, and he’s been through hell. the likelihood of him going to therapy and fully healing is low, i’ll be honest. but death is never the answer, death is never the solution, and it is certainly not the end that c!dream is going to face; not like this, anyway. i run through scenarios in my mind of ways he could possibly die — at c!quackity’s hand, at c!tommy’s, at c!sapnap’s, at his own; because of the egg, because of the prison/torture, because he can’t go on anymore, because he returned to his old ways — and none of them seem feasible.

i don’t think c!dream is going to reach his final death, especially not permanently. he might die, yeah, but that won’t be the end for him, and it’s not the happy ending i’m talking about either. if he dies, he’ll come back: i’m 90% sure of it. cc!dream is one of the best actors in the series, he’s an important character, and the series just,, wouldn’t be the same without him?? a lot of characters are built off their relationship with him or mysteries surrounding him (think c!ranboo, c!karl, even c!tommy, etc) — it doesn’t make any sense for him to die while so much is unknown. c!dream still has a hell of a long time to go. i know it.

so, to start coming to an end of this analysis ramble about c!dream, how do i see his potential happy endings playing out? here are a few ideas:

he breaks out. i think this is inevitable. he’s going to break out of prison or be allowed out. mainly because of how heavily it’s been hinted - either someone is going to break him out or he’ll be released because he’s needed.

he teams up with the ‘good guys’ to defeat the egg. this seems the most plausible for me rn — there’s a constant emphasis on how sides are what tear people apart, and if they have snowchester, the syndicate, and everyone else (including c!dream) band together against the egg for one final battle, this could be a good way to show c!dream healing or at least doing something positive to help those he’s hurt.

teaming up with c!wilbur. this is also a pretty plausible one because of how favourably c!dream spoke about c!wilbur, and how insistent he seemed to be that c!wilbur would be the one to break him out. it would be very interesting to see the two of them work together to destroy the server with different dynamics this time!

he joins the syndicate. c!dream doesn’t have particularly good relationships with c!techno or c!philza, but doesn’t necessarily have negative relationships with them either - if we’re following the exile arc plot with the prison, it makes sense for c!dream to go to c!techno and ask to be helped to use up c!techno’s favour. 

he returns to his old ways only to be ‘redeemed’. this doesn’t feel as plausible, just because i know a lot of people aren’t fond of events/arcs repeating with only minor changes (personally i love it, but i know a lot of people don’t!) but it would be incredibly interesting to see. c!dream pushing himself back into this big bad villain role, only to be talked down by c!tommy who has realised by this point that Nobody Is evil or someone else who has the same realisation, and he gets to heal from that.

c!quackity/c!tommy kill him over the revive book, he becomes a ghost + eventually comes back. i’m very against the permanent death theory, like i mentioned before, so maybe i’m just trying to avoid that, but c!dream still has a lot of ties to the story and so to kill him and have that be his final end doesn’t seem right. it’s potential that he could come back as a ghost or even revive himself - and, by that point, people have realised that he is also a victim of the server/society and begin to set in stone his healing.

or, lastly, of course, we have possession. it’s still mildly plausible that c!dream is possessed by a demon/dreamon - though i personally don’t think so, given the lack of hints or indications we’ve been given at this point towards that being the case. an easy way to ‘redeem’ c!dream would be to have all his actions be stemming from demonic possession: upon exorcism, he’d be technically innocent from any of the crimes/trauma he’d committed/caused.

but yeah !! these are only some of my thoughts - but i don’t think any character will remain a villain or get a necessarily unhappy ending, certainly nothing as tragic as the situation c!dream is currently in. death is never a good option or answer, and, as we know, death isn’t as permanent as it once had been,,, even if they kill dream i doubt he’ll remain dead. cc!dream is an incredible actor and asset to the smp, not to mention he literally owns it ,,, but i have full faith in how he writes c!dream. he knows his character so incredibly well, and needless to say, i think we’re in safe hands with him.

remember: cc!dream chose to describe c!dream as ‘repressed’, not as evil or as manipulative or anything like that. that’s essential to remembering c!dream is Incredibly Complex and due to not being one-dimensionally evil is less likely to suffer needlessly just to die. though i’d be interested to hear any other thoughts on this too !! :D

(i hope this all made sense !! feel free to ask any questions you wanna sdkfhsd)

[megablade]

i’ve been thinking a lot of about possible parallel arcs between c!dream & c!quackity lately, and something interesting i’ve noticed is where their desire for control comes from.

throughout each of their arcs, it becomes apparent that they’re both willing to go through extreme lengths in order to obtain control, but note the disparity between dream and quackity in where that desire inherently stems from.

we know so little about the backstory of dream that it’s almost laughable, but we DO know he founded the greater dream smp and is the server admin. since the very beginning, dream had control over essentially everything. however, power isn’t necessarily important to dream, seeing how he’s often willing to relinquish power-associated positions such as king to eret and george. 

take note of what dream said in the disc finale in his vault: “everything i do is deliberate. i need control, okay? i need control, i need the control of the server.” when people like tommy started skirmishes on his land, dream took tommy’s discs in order to get leverage over him. dream is willing to go through far lengths, even giving up his prized possessions (“i don’t give a FUCK about spirit”), to obtain that sense of control.

he constantly flipped sides during the l’manberg/pogtopia war because he has no true loyalties to either country; he is on chaos’s side because chaos on his server, ironically, is something that dream can manage.

quackity, on the other hand, is the polar opposite. even after being undermined, belittled, and pushed aside from the moment he became vice president of manberg, quackity continued to seek leadership positions after the country blew up because he believed that power would give him the control he seeks. he staked himself as the president of el rapids and leader of the butcher army, giving himself power that he thought he lacked as manberg’s vice president when really, what he lacked was control.

quackity continued to fail to get the results he wanted: el rapids became a forgotten memory and the butcher army’s sole mission to cross names off the hit-list was unsuccessful. despite the power he’s given himself, control ultimately continued to spiral out of his grasp.

up to this point, quackity and dream were foils in this specific sense that dream KNOWS that control is what he seeks and he already knows that power won’t necessarily give him that. that’s what made him such an excellent villain, considering how he chose to manipulate others rather than forcefully take anything. quackity, however, had continued to push for power, which didn’t yield the results he wanted.

it’s why the shift in his character from the final cutscene of his lore stream is so crucial: as much as i believe that tearing down el rapids is a symbol of his loss of “innocence” & camaraderie with his friends, i think it’s in equal part a symbol that he’s finally understood that power is meaningless (hence the destruction of a faction he was recognized to be a leader of) and that control is what he truly needs (quackity being covered in blood after torturing dream, a display of control over someone who’s tormented him for the longest time).

i’m not sure as of yet what this means for the future of quackity’s character arc but... we’ll have to wait and see :]

[technospotatoes]

C!SAM - Redeemable Qualities Analysis (Dream SMP)

Hallo! I’m back with another brain rot post for ya’ll instead of doing my schoolwork :] 

Recently, I’ve been doing some thinking and theorizing with some friends on discord following Quackity’s huge lore stream (if you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend you watch it). I woke up this morning with a head full of many thoughts about C!Awesamdude and where his story could take us. Seeing as how there is going to be lots of change in the future with the server, there must be changes in these characters as well-- evil to good, good to evil, and the like. With these changes comes my thought: “can these characters be redeemed?” Here are my thoughts on how this applies to C!Sam.

Please let me know your thoughts and theories, I’d love to discuss with you! As always, strap in, it’s gonna be a long one :]

I hope you enjoy!

Author’s note: I want to start this off by saying that all of the contents being discussed are fictional, and are from the Dream SMP universe. I do not support the actions of these characters, but merely have interest in analyzing them through a lens of psychology and for entertainment purposes. Content of this post will contain spoilers up to 3/25/21 of the DSMP lore. I will also talk about ATLA a little bit ;)

Content warning: mentions of torture, manipulation, death, possible psychological trauma

(pls be safe ily)

What makes a redeemable character? 

  Redeemable characters are some of the most pleasing and favored characters in modern media. Their stories are rich with emotion, and they can even evoke some form of catharsis within the most skeptic consumers. Redeemable characters are memorable and inspiring, and without one, a story can feel empty. Before we apply this character trope to the Dream SMP and C!Sam, we need to answer a basic question in order to fully understand the complexity of redeemable characters and how they are so universally significant. 

What is a redeemable character?

  Simply put, a redeeming character or characteristic counteracts or corrects something negative. From a storytelling standpoint, a redeemable character is someone who has roots in good qualities, turns bad, and has the ability to revert their wrong choices to become a better person. 

Examples of redeemed characters in popular media include: 

Zuko - Avatar the Last Airbender

Boromir - Lord of the Rings

Kylo Ren - Star Wars

Severus Snape - Harry Potter 

  Zuko, for example, starts his story off as the villain. He tirelessly hunts down the protagonist, and will stop at nothing to achieve his goal to please his father. However, as the show progresses, we learn that Zuko wasn’t always bad. He was only driven to his path of villainy because of his fear of failure, of his father (the firelord and true antagonist of the show), and of a greater punishment than what he had already received. With the help of his uncle, Zuko learned to push through and accept his past, while also making amends with his wrongs and coming to the realization of who the true enemy was; ultimately choosing peace and unity over destruction and fear.    Zuko’s story is so appealing because it was drawn out. It was raw, it was real, and it was a genuine telling of how damaged people can heal, change, and come to accept themselves. Because he went through the process of redemption, he was not only able to be loved by those around him, but also by his audience-- And I believe that this can be the same case with any redeemable character. 

So how does this relate to C!Sam? How could he possibly be redeemable if he is not evil?

  C!Sam has become increasingly interesting to me in the DSMP lore, and he has shown how complex his character is-- in contrast to many first impressions that people have of him. Based upon his actions from the past, and his willingness to remain neutral in times of conflict, we can conclude that he sustains both “neutral good” and “lawful neutral/good” qualities. This means that Sam is a reliable character, driven by his own personal values, and is devoted to helping others (when he sees fit). Evidence of these qualities emerge…

When he sided with Pogtopia during the Manberg War to maintain good relations with Tommy and Tubbo. 

When he saved Hannah from the Egg

Created Sam Nook to assist Tommy in building his hotel

Built Pandora’s Vault for Dream

Showed concern for Ranboo after one of his denied prison visits

  Sam’s moral code is deeply rooted with good intentions; he keeps an eye out for his friends, maintains his relationships, assists in builds/projects, and also serves as a “stable adult figure” for some of the younger members of the server. In contrast to his logical outward appearance, C!Sam lets his emotions drive his decision making-- which can lead to many severe consequences depending on how he acts. However, recently Sam’s actions indicate that he is experiencing a flip in morals. 

Below are incidents that have led to C!Sam’s recent change in moral code. 

Incident 1: Trapped with the Egg

  Many weeks ago, during the height of character involvement with the Egg lore, C!Sam was lured into a trap by BBH and Antfrost. He spent about a day trapped in close contact with the Egg, and after he was saved by Puffy and Tommy, he was clearly changed. It is likely that the Egg is behind these sudden changes in character motivation for Sam… similarly to how it corrupted BBH, Ant, and Punz. Whether this is the case with Sam is unclear. 

Incident 2: Tommy’s death

  C!Sam and C!Tommy’s relationship within the DSMP lore is one of my favorite things to talk about. After his victory over the disk war and finally landing his nemesis in prison, Tommy was left empty, without much to do. He decided to take upon a new project to incite a new era of peace, and was able to enlist the help of Sam with building his hotel. Throughout this process (and under the watchful eye of Sam Nook), Tommy and Sam were able to develop a bond with each other through their work, along with their interactions at the Prison. 

  Sam has made it clear that he intends to defend Tommy no matter what-- but after his untimely death at the hands of C!Dream, Sam was deeply wounded. He felt as if he failed his promise to keep Tommy safe, and he made it clear that the blame for the “security issue” and C!Tommy’s death should be placed fully on him. No matter how selfless and responsible this makes his character appear, this event will only serve as the basis for severe consequences in moral change in the future. 

Incident 3: Confrontation with Quackity

  Following the large emotional impact of Tommy’s death, C!Sam is very vulnerable, because he is still within the stages of grief. C!Quackity came to Sam for a partnership, to take advantage of Sam while he was low to gain the upper hand. It’s no question that Q’s character is a talented manipulator, we can see that clearly in his interaction with Sam. Q restates again and again that Sam failed, further cementing Sam’s existing guilt and desire for revenge for his failure. Sam gives in to the manipulation, and somewhat reluctantly allows Quackity to torture Dream to get information and to get payback for what he did to Tommy... which completely goes against what his responsibility of Warden entails. 

  As Warden, C!Sam is supposed to uphold the law and rules of visitation, but because of his leniency with Quackity (in breaking the rules) and because he is still emotionally raw, he no longer defends good from evil, but is now biased against it. C!Sam probably wants Dream dead, but as Warden, his opinion shouldn’t matter. Because Sam fully blames himself for failing Tommy, he's lost the "lawful good" in his character, meaning Warden Sam (as a set of morals) truly doesn't exist anymore.

Incident 4: Ponk’s mistake

  To recap a stream briefly, Ponk did a prank on Sam a couple days ago, and stole a few of the expired keycards to Pandora’s Vault. Rightfully, Sam was very angry, and not only took back the keycards, but also imprisoned Ponk. However, where this interaction should have ended, C!Sam only took it to the extreme. (TW!!!!) Out of anger and frustration, C!Sam tortured Ponk for his wrongdoing by setting him on fire, and amputating his arm (END TW!!!). 

  This only proves my point from Incident 3. Warden Sam is fading, only bits and pieces of his morally neutral character remain within him for basic tasks. His encounter with Quackity had a huge impact on his psyche, not only is he allowing the torture of the prison occupants, but he is doing it himself as well. C!Sam is now starting to believe that pain and torture are the only solutions for punishment, which is the complete opposite of what he believed before Dream was imprisoned. 

In short...

  C!Sam is losing his grip on moral and mental stability because of his emotional insecurity due to his psychological trauma. Because of this, I believe that it is entirely possible for Sam’s character to explore the route of evil and unlawful values-- which furthers the possibility for a redemption arc. Even currently, Sam is eligible for redemption as well.

  If C!Sam is willing to acknowledge his wrongs from today and improve himself upon them, he will likely become a more memorable, lovable, and even more human character than we’ve seen in the SMP before. 

SIDENOTE!

IRL Sam recently posted in his discord talking about his character. Here are a few key things to keep in mind as the story goes forward: 

“There is a LOT of things in the plan for me as a character and a very big change is coming about for me as the story moves along.”

I believe this change could be a villain arc, or a turn towards evil that incites the possibility for redemption. 

“My character is playing a role that I think is VITAL for the server and a role that I like to think was a good one for me to pick up and accept.”

You can read the reddit post I referenced for this here (ty to my friend on discord for providing me with the link <3)

TYSM FOR READING!! <3 <3 <3