#c!dream crit

[alliumsduo]

Halloween costume but i'm dressed up as ctommy and i have a c!dream plush and i dropkick him into oncoming traffic

[flamedoesart]

I am very funny.

[piningpebbles]

just my quick two-cents on the ending but i thought some elements were really well done (c!jack’s feelings and bitterness, c!clingyduo getting to fight c!dream, c!sam’s reaction’s to dream’s death, c!punz’ reveal, etc.) but others (specifically the amnesia and kind of tone-deaf sudden sympathetic view of c!dream) were done really poorly. so while i really enjoyed some parts of it, and it’s always going to have that essence of the dream smp that i love so much, the ending (tommy’s last stream specifically) felt really cheap in terms of how it left the characters we’ve come to know so well.

here are some ideas i came up with for other ways i thought could’ve been cool for the ending to follow:

- tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him but ends up turning on him and ultimately teaming with tommy and tubbo again but for real this time (though for his own reasons aside from just power). he doesn’t have to be a good guy, in fact this could’ve set him up to both get c!dream out of the picture and get punz into place as the major antagonist for the next chapter.

- tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him, but this time tubbo and tommy run across the server telling everyone (if not everyone, just c!sam) that dream’s back and sam ends up working together with them to trap dream (and punz?) back in the prison. but just when sam’s ready to resign himself back to his own personal hell that is pandora’s vault, tubbo gets the idea to nuke the prison with the two still inside, where they all go to the nukes and find jack. jack and tommy argue, setting up jack as the current main antagonist for the next chapter as nothing is resolved between the two. and then sure enough, tommy, tubbo, sam, and jack all see the nukes blow up the prison.

- this one i actually thought was going to happen!! tubbo and tommy kill dream. punz revives him, and tommy plans to trap them both at the prison so tubbo can set off the nuke and kill them. the nuke is set to pandora’s vault. jack goes to the nukes, thinking tubbo’s on his side, and ends up targeting aiming the nukes towards tommy’s house/the hotel/bad and skeppy’s mansion. the explosion does reach the prison, but the impact only ends up killing dream and punz. tommy, tubbo, and jack then talk and help rebuilt whatever was caught the blast. if bad’s mansion is caught in the wreckage it’s a good building point for the egg to focus in for the next chapter.

[pigeonxp]

tbh i didnt watch any of the ending lore streams and idk if i am gonna watch them. based on reactions thus far idk if its worth it. i got my c!wilbur ending and i dont care abt c!dream AT ALL so what would i even be watching for lol

[tobi-smp]

I just feel like there's an inherent difference from tommy calling wilbur crazy while he watches his brother, his stability, spiral in front of him. desperate and scared, no idea how to help him, but wanting more than anything to Try, to never let go. trying to do anything to stop wilbur from hurting himself, from hurting anybody else, while wilbur actively tries to convince him that he's already too far gone to be helped. choosing wilbur again and again and again.

and technoblade calling wilbur crazy while actively agreeing with everything wilbur wanted to do. no qualms with him wanting to blow up the country or kill people just thinking he's being too mentally ill about it.

both of them were hurtful to wilbur undeniably, tommy probably more so even. but as the audience we should be able to recognize that these aren't on the same level or coming from the same place right.

[barzfrommarz]

RIP ladyddanger you were never afraid to say the truth

[mellorphic]

Thinking about how the way this fandom treats anger as a trauma response?

There’s the c!Tommy method - pretend it does not exist or pretend it’s the only trait he has

The c!Wilbur method - demonise and vilify him for it

Or the c!Niki method - turn it into a girlboss trait

[restnowyourhardshipisover]

It is so important that in the finale Punz becomes one of the first people to where Dream can see stand up to the people harassing him.

Tommy and Tubbo slaughter Dream for no reason then wander over to brag about it and Punz does not backtrack he does not hide. Fuck that shit.

And when Tommy starts hurling abuse at Dream? When Tommy refuses to listen, twists and mischaracterizes Dream's every word? Punz repeatedly stands up to him. He spends the entire encounter pointing out very explicitly what Tommy is doing and has been doing for years.

He stands up for someone whose been talked over, lied about and mischaracterized. Demonized as automatic matter of course. He does not give the person who hurt Dream space to continue unchallenged. He points out Tommy's lies. He doesn't force a guy defined by his struggle to overcome people that badger him with false words he has no answer for to stand alone in an argument.

Punz backs his friend, respects him and fights back. For the first time in recent memory, Dream is with someone who is not only on his side, but won't let Tommy continue to hurt Dream.

[aro-throughyourchest]

why does the dsmp fandom have such a black and white view of characters and if they don’t fit that criteria, they’re too complex of a character to enjoy and if they do but you like them, they’re Actually Not That Bad or Someone’s Lying and why are there like four people who actually fit the criteria of morally grey which just means Villain but Hot

c!tommy is either a hero or a villain, c!jack is either a tragic hero or a monster, c!sam is

do you see the picture

[paranoid-spotlight-everest]

For the love of god.

Stuff you dislike ≠ problematic

You don't have to find a 'moral' reason why you dislike it, just ignore it and MOVE ON

"I think (ship) is abusive!" Well, people are enjoying it, putting their own spin on it, and you just don't see that. So long as they are not hurting and harassing any real people, just block them. It's not that hard.

When we are fans of media, we bring our own beliefs and experiences to the viewing. I first watched the Dsmp during the lore drought, and I had been influenced by c!clingyduo mains and L'manburg enjoyers. But through Halfy and Winks, Mellohi, and dreblr, I saw something new in c!dream's character and I absolutely love him now.

People have different ideas than you. That's okay, that's not problematic. The problem comes when you harass people for being'problematic.'

[stemms]

As much as I’ve always admired the sheer creativity and kind attitude of the DSMP fandom, it’s nearly impossible to overlook the weird™ behaviour, regarding c!Primers in particular, and although it has been said countless times before me, I’d like to throw in my two cents. 

The uncomfortable and frankly gross phenomenon of Bowspam, coined by Poppytwt, which portrays a romantic and sexual relationship between c!Tommy and c!Dream, is the reason I made this post in the first place. Unfortunately, some content featuring c!Prime is rather predatory, which contradicts the original source and the whole point of their dynamic. For example, if you type “Discduo” in the Spotify search bar, you’ll most likely find multiple “Discduo / Bowspam” playlists instead, which is obviously very gross, and appears as if the latter was still normalised to some extent. As much as this tag is disturbing in general, the more details you learn about it, the more problematic it seems. 

Originally, Tadca was nothing but a collection of warnings, so that those who felt uncomfortable with abusive content, could simply block it, but Poppytwt claimed the tag, and that’s when things got actually weird™. It happened because some artists drew a couple of weird™ comics by pure accident, and it was used as a proof that all c!Prime enjoyers ship them. Andy never intended for Tadca to be twisted into something so heinous, and for this exact reason, he asked everyone to stop using the tag because of harassment, yet strangely enough, he was the one receiving harassment for something completely out of his control. Unfortunately, it wasn’t an exceptional case, as many other c!Prime enjoyers received death threats and harassment from c!Dream apologists, just for authentically depicting an abusive dynamic; pretending that c!Prime was paedophilic, and sending tons of harassment was easier than admitting that their fave wasn’t as good as they wanted to believe. Weirdly enough, Bowspam enjoyers never faced as much harassment as c!Primers, even though their content fully matched that definition. Plus, c!Trinity also received a good share of criticism because some people believed that it was a second wave of Tadca, except c!Punz got involved in it too. 

Furthermore, it’s important to note that the c!Prime dynamic offers real-life abuse victims a voice, and it’s utterly disrespectful to sexualise it, as it may discourage them from speaking out about their situation because of a fear of being misunderstood, due to constant victim blaming in the fandom, and a misconception that any kind of abuse outside of family, is sexual. Fiction does have an important impact on real life, and unfortunately, some people forget about that completely. We should also remember that while creating c!Prime content might help some people cope with trauma and is often inspired by their own experiences, some people still choose to be weird about it, which I find extremely disrespectful.

[transbeeduo]

Every time I think about the “canon” C!Ranboo ending for too long, I get SO sad actually.

I know I should be happy that him and Michael survived and are together and stuff right? But for Ranboo, is it really “living”? Is it living to be isolated in an environment that you aren’t built for, that you aren’t accustomed to? To know that almost everyone you know and love is either dead, doesn’t remember you, or exists somewhere where you’ll never see them again? To live, knowing that those people could’ve been saved, just as they had, but the only reason he’s alive is because a god decided that they should live, forcing him into a life that he really didn’t have a choice in. And what about Michael, who will grow up never really knowing his other father? Ranboo and The Nether will be all he ever knows, there’s no way he’ll remember Tubbo or Snowchester.

I know CC!Ranboo was kind of backed into a corner with making a good ending, but I just wish it was a bit happier? I wish C!Ranboo could’ve had a happier ending, instead of being forced into a life that really seems miserable for him, if you really think about it.

[mossmelancholic]

i feel my main issue with the finale is that it’s a bad ending that exists for the wrong reasons.

one of the aspects of c!tommy’s lore that appealed to me was how fundamentally bleak his existence always turns out to be. he’s inherently a tragic character: the consequences for his actions are always overblown in comparison to both the intent and the impact of them. because of his loud personality and even louder voice, he’s the centre of attention in any room he walks into, which makes him a quick and easy scapegoat if you’re looking for someone to blame. he’s stubborn and he’s surviving, but he’s never at peace with his circumstances because something is always missing - his discs, his friends, his family.

i know that suffering for the sake of suffering is not a story beat that many are fond of. i know that many watchers just wanted tommy to heal because he deserved something hopeful. but to see a character whose circumstances are always stagnating, stuck in this tiring cycle where they always find themselves ending up right back where they started… that really appealed to me on a personal level, and so keeping that in mind, i always thought there was a chance his ending was not going to be a happy one.

but to me, this does not feel like his ending. it’s not an ending that exists for c!tommy. it’s not the natural conclusion to his story. this was an ending made to excuse c!dream’s entire villain arc instead. c!tommy’s characterisation as a victim did not matter here, because characterising c!dream as a victim instead was the intended goal. the abuse c!dream inflicted on c!tommy is less important than desperately clutching at straws to make a character, that we as an audience have no reason to view as sympathetic, ‘worthy’ of our sympathy. the narrative is desperate to give room for c!dream to have a second chance, something that comes at the cost of enabling victim blaming against a canonical child abuse survivor.

when c!tommy, in the haze of memory loss, befriends his abuser, i don’t think it was intended to be tragic. it could and should have been, because c!tommy having no recollection of anything is a good set-up that would leave him vulnerable, open to c!dream’s manipulation once again because he doesn’t know who to avoid and who not to trust. but it isn’t trying to be unsettling when we see c!tommy unknowingly befriending his abuser; it’s meant to be a sign of hope that now everything has been reset, maybe there could be peace again. it doesn’t work, because the viewers remember everything even if the characters don’t. instead the amnesia plot line feels like a flimsy method of making a blank slate and a fresh new start where c!dream can avoid the consequences of his actions completely. this is a unintentional bad ending for c!tommy, because he’s placed in a position where he will grow to trust someone who has the full capacity to hurt him, but it’s an intentional good ending for c!dream and it seems that’s where the cc’s priorities lie.

[imsosocold]

The Dichotomy of Disliking Characters:  

While c!tommy went through a lot of terrible things he also did a lot fucked up stuff not properly addressed by the narrative ( c!dream is  like double this ugh)  such as his treatment of Jack, the torture he put Fundy through, the  possessiveness of  Tubbo, him threatening to kill a child out of jealously, etc. This lack of  resolution makes it hard to like his character combined with the fandom’s tendency to similarly brush over his flaws and woobify him.                                 Oh, c!Sam? Ew, he’s a cop, fuck him. 

[lena-in-her-mind-palace]

I think to a degree, c!techno gaslight himself into justifying the scapegoat. like techno probably fully believed that it was pogtopia and Tommy's actions that took it this far even though he was always planning on doing it. idk how to word it clearly but point is, regardless of the justification and whether that was valid or not, techno thought he was in the right.

c! Techno's morality is the most intriguing clusterfuck of a hot mess

So.

With c!Wilbur’s apologies to c!Techno, and Techno’s claims of being lied to about Pogtopia’s plans on reinstating L’manburg as a country, and how he was betrayed. Let me remind you of a moment. 

A conversation between c!Techno and c!BBH which occurred before Tubbo and Quackity told Techno about their plans on reinstating the L’manburg government, and before there was a war, and most certainly before this ‘surprise’ betrayal of them reinstating a government and assigning a president. 

Badboyhalo was talking to Technoblade about the Badlands. He was talking about if Techno would be okay with an anarchist group [the Badlands], and questioned what Techno’s plans are. 

Techno states that he’s fine with an anarchy, that he’s not okay with killing cats, and then he states this;

"I want to leave a smoking crater from which not only will Manberg never recover, but from which no new country can rise in its place. History will FORGET that a country ever existed in this area."

Again. This is before each and every excuse c!Techno has given to Tommy, Wilbur, Quackity, Tubbo, literally everyone, on why he’d set withers on this place. 

He claims he was betrayed by them reinstating government. He claims that Wilbur had lied to him and that he didn’t know about them planning to reinstate L’manburg. Despite evidence of Quackity and Tubbo literally telling him.

But maybe you can brush it off on he wasn’t listening, or he didn’t take them seriously. 

But this absolutely proves that he was planning on blowing this place up regardless of whether they reinstated government or not. This is evidence is before Quackity and Tubbo tell him. This is before the war. This is before the betrayal. He was already planning on blowing the place to smithereens even before Dream had offered and egged him on. He was never going to let this place go peacefully. He was never going to give a new government a chance of being peaceful. It was deemed corrupt before it's creation.

And this behavior is repeated with Doomsday when Tommy works with him. In his To-Do List, he had always had 'destroy L’manburg' listed at the top. Every time Tommy would say he didn’t want to destroy L’manburg, or said he just wanted his discs he didn’t want revenge, Techno would change subjects until he stopped bringing it up all together (vocally, to Tommy. visually he’d highlight the destroy line in the list to chat every time he opened up the book). 

It didn’t matter, it would have never mattered. Doomsday was going to happen no matter what. Dream planned on destroying the place, Techno planned on destroying the place. There would have been no way to convince them otherwise, and Tommy had tried every time it was brought up. It just so happened that a perfect opportunity and cover arose for it to happen then and there.

Tommy’s “betrayal” of Techno by siding with Tubbo (mind you, he’d done so because he realized he no longer wanted to play this cycle of revenge, and he didn’t want to be a bad person, and he didn’t want to hurt his best friend. He chose Tubbo over Techno, just as Techno would’ve chosen Phil over everything in the same situation). 

Tommy’s “betrayal” of Techno was used as a scapegoat reasoning for his destruction, turning a plan that would’ve happened no matter what, into a ‘lesson’ to be ‘taught’ and an ‘act’ of ‘revenge’. 

This is exactly the same as what happened on November 16th. Wilbur was the only official ‘traitor’ to L’manburg deemed by Dream, as Wilbur had been the one on this spiral and dead set plan to blow the place up, egged on and encouraged by Dream. He had no idea about withers, or that Techno had betrayed them in the first place until recently. He had no idea. He still doesn't even know they had a part in Doomsday. He still thinks it was all his fault.

Techno on the other hand, had known before there could have even been talks of betrayal, or before Wilbur could have even ‘lied’ to him. His mind was already made up. 

Pogtopia’s “betrayal” of Techno was used as a scapegoat reasoning for his deadset plans of destruction, that was planned far in advance of the war. 

They are scapegoats that he still uses to this day, and has even built upon adding details such as adding that Wilbur and Tommy had deliberately lied to him, or had deliberately tried to hurt him, which is simply false. In both of these situations, he’s planned from the beginning what he had wanted to do, regardless of how these “betrayals” made him feel. 

***This post is tagged appropriately with critical tags, so if you don’t want to see or hear c!techno critical, you should block the tags. This isn’t a post for debate or argument, it’s an analysis and well, critical post. That’s the point. Thank you. ����

[barzfrommarz]

would u guys listen if I posted my thoughts on c!wilburs ending 2 years later