#by either jon snow or faegon

[lagosbratzdoll]

people genuinely believe that grrm wrote f&b, and showed us all the Targ women who suffered because of their gender just to end the main series with another Targaryen woman dead on the blade of yet another Targaryen man.

[travllingbunny]

Yoy think Daenerys will turn evil in the books?

No. I also don't think she will go mad.

I do think she will get darker and more ruthless in The Winds of WInter. So will Jon Snow. In Dany's case it will be because she tried to repress the "dragon" side of her nature and made too many compromises in Meereen in ADWD, which she will realize was a mistake, symbolically embracing her dragon side now that she's with Drogon and has become his rider, but she may go too far into the other direction.

She will also at some point meet Tyrion, who will become her advisor - and Tyrion is definitely in his dark phase already and full of rage and desire for revenge against his family - especially his siblings, so he is certainly not going to be a moderating, level-headed influence.

I think, on the personal level, TWOW Jon Snow will be darker and more terrifying than Dany, and maybe more than Tyrion too, once he comes back from the dead (probably after spending some time in Ghost) - because he has the mystical storyline of getting resurrected, in addition to the man/direwolf duality and symbiosis. GRRM has made it clear many times that he thinks any storyline of someone getting resurrected must include a heavy price, and that it can't be just someone being the same or having even bigger powers. However, Jon Snow being even more terrifying than Dany and Tyrion on the personal level would be off-set by the fact that Dany is a dragonrider with control over two more dragons, which gives her a lot of potentially destructive power. (This may change when/if Jon gets to ride a dragon too, but Dany will already have that kind of power when she gets to Westeros.)

I think we're in for a very dark penultimate novel, where our protagonists will do a lot of troubling and maybe destructive things. But I don't think any of them are meant to end up their arcs as evil. It would especially be weird for Dany. GRRM has already written a "mad Queen/evil Queen" character, who loves fire, doesn't care for the lives of most people, and has been compared to Aerys - it's Cersei. So why would he make Dany go mad and evil too? Dany and Jon are parallels to each other. Dany and Cersei, on the other hand, are written to be two powerful women who are complete opposites as people and rulers (even with some of the similar experiences), so it makes no sense for them to end up both evil and mad, unless the author is trying to say women rulers are bad in general, which I really can't see GRRM deciding to do. And Dany constantly questioning her actions and her sanity (something a malignant narcissist like Cersei never does) is another reason why her going evil and/or insane would be extremely unsatisfying.

I think that the show plot of King's Landing getting destroyed will happen in the books as the tragic result of the Dany/fAegon civil war, and that it will probably be due to several factors including Dany's dragons ( it would be both/either due to her her determination to be harsh to her enemies and/or inability to fully control Drogon). stashes of wildfire in the city, and Jon Connington likely doing something extreme. He is the one who is likely to get triggered by the sound of bells, because it reminds him of his loss at the Battle of Bells, which has haunted him since, and he has already decided that he has to be more extreme and ruthless, like Tywin, in order to win this time.

In any case, I think whatever happens makes Dany decide that fighting for the Iron Throne was wrong and makes her want to redeem herself, and that her ultimate fate is to fight the Others, which has been foreshadowed. And if I'm certain of anything about ASOIAF, it's that the Long Night will not be the short, anticlimactic affair it was in the show - it will be the big, final showdown, because it has always been strongly implied that this is what the humans in the story really need to focus on, instead of fighting each other over power.

[markhenzel]

3 A Song of Ice and Fire theories I find it fun.

3. Ned Dayne and Jon Snow are either two things:

Ned Dayne:

1) Rhaegar and Elia Martell son

2) Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark son

Jon Snow:

3) Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne son

4) Brandon and Ashara Dayne son

This theory isn't strong but I find it fun. I got this theory for a joke about "What if Jon Snow has white hair like Targaryen" which makes me think what if he did. Ned Dayne has white hair and purple eyes. And I find it weird why out of all houses GRRM creates, he chose to make House Dayne members have purple eyes and some have white hair unless it's a setup. Think about it, how to hide a Targaryen if not a place that has people looks like Targaryen but not aka House Dayne. Every setup has a pay-off.

If Ned Dayne is Rhaegar and Elia Martell's son, it's a setup for Faegon and Golden Company which reveal he's the real Aegon that survived The Mountain.

If Ned Dayne is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, that makes Jon Snow an actual bastard, probably from Ned/Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne. If it's Ned, it could challenge the reader's perspective on honourable Ned Stark. Maybe Ned Stark did something like Robb Stark did but in reverse like instead of choosing Ashara (Jane Westerling), he chose Catelyn (Walder Frey's daughter). You get the picture. A perfectly parallel circle.

If Jon Snow is Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne's son and let's assume they married, Jon might be the number 1 heir for Winterfell.

[jackoshadows]

Sometimes I think ASoIaF/GoT fandom is too hard on J*nsa shippers, like let them ship their ship if it makes them happy, but then I read shit about how Jon/Arya is "bad" incest because they look alike but Jon/Sansa is "good" incest since they look like Ned/Cat, and then I'm like "nah, they deserve to be the laughingstock of the fandom."

IMO, the fandom only has an issue with the 'Jonsa is canon' shippers who spend their time mutating Jon, Dany, Arya and others into unrecognizable side characters in a story called a Song of Sansa and Sansa.

Why do I dislike Jonsa? Because of the shippers.

The way Jonsa is shipped makes it at it’s core an inherently misogynistic and classist ship that undermines Jon Snow as a character and his canon relationships in the books and the TV show IMO. Dany and Arya get a lot of sexist hate because of this ship. Especially Dany. Jonsa stans turned against the character specifically after Jonerys happened on the show.

The ‘Jonsa is canon’ folks posit that:

Jon’s disdain for girls like Sansa is actually about Jon feeling that he is not worthy of beautiful, perfect Sansa because of his bastardy. He therefore settles for girls similar to Arya, who are more to his level - classism and sexism in one concise package! Jon’s issues concerning his bastardy will be resolved once trueborn, beautiful Sansa deigns to love him.

Jon is wrong to like girls like Arya and does not know his own mind. He will therefore grow as a character and acknowledge that his type has always been Sansa.

Jon has actually referred to Arya as being horse-faced and ugly and told Arya that it is right and correct to live within patriarchal rules!

Jon is also very shallow - he develops a romantic crush on his 11 year old sibling who mocked and bullied Arya for being ugly. Who cares if Arya went crying to him afraid that she too was a bastard because of her looks, 11 year old Sansa’s beauty is too hard to resist!

Arya cannot have a romance arc, is not pretty, will not marry or have children. Jon will be repulsed by her when they meet again. Jon will grow to dislike Arya, Val, Dany etc. for their masculine characteristics and for killing people. Instead he will find Sansa’s feminine courage more appealing and fall in love with her beauty, purity, innocence, singing, dancing, lady like ways.

Slut-shaming. Dany has many partners unlike pure, innocent Sansa. (They have rather puritanical opinions on sex and morality and project these notions onto Sansa. I don't know if it's because of their obsession with fairy tales and disney princesses)

Jon will turn into a Littlefinger like character who sexually manipulates Daenerys - a rape victim - in order to help his true love Sansa get the North. This is okay because Dany deserves it and it’s about helping Sansa.

Dany and Jon's child will be born deformed, monstrous. Dany will turn mad because of genes. Jon will reject her because she’s barren. The Starks are superior to everyone.

Actual defense of slavery and classism. Dany is wrong to free the slaves in Meereen, Arya is wrong to step in to help Mycah, the classism and feudal structures in Westeros is fine as long as the Starks/Sansa are the ones perpetuating it.

Jon is oversensitive and whiny about Catelyn Stark and she was right to abuse him because bastards are a threat to her children.

Jaime Lannister will become Hand of the King, for Queen Sansa and King Jon, while evil Tyrion will die.

The hard power of characters like Daenerys and the violence of characters like Arya is evil and wrong while the violence of male characters is righteous and justified. Jon, who regularly kills people, will be put off by Arya and Dany killing people.

Daenerys and Arya should be repudiated because they have masculine characteristics, masculine courage, a masculine narrative arc and people only enjoy their story because they stand in for male characters.

‘People like Dany more than Sansa because Emilia Clarke showed her tits’ - actual words written by a popular Jonsa shipper.

The scorned women trope. This is a core premise of many of their theories like political Jon and fAegon being real. Dany will be rejected by men, go mad and burn down KL.

There is only one real female character in the story - that’s Sansa. And the only reason - the ONLY REASON, people criticize or dislike the character is because of their internalized misogyny against the only real female character in the books. Only Sansa gets the fairy tale romance because she’s a real woman.

Being written as a divisive, xenophobic, isolationist, backstabbing traitor on the show is good writing that portrays Sansa as a good leader.

And so on and so forth. I am pretty sure I have only covered like half of their nonsense.

Ultimately the problem for Jonsa is that it's nonexistent in the books and both characters had an antagonistic relationship on the show. There's nothing there. So the 'Jonsa is canon' folks take away from Arya, the Jon-Arya relationship, erase Arya from her story and relationships and demonize Dany to make Jonsa happen.

Jonerys and Jonrya shippers don't have that problem. Both ships have material from the books and show and even extras like GRRM's leaked original outline to make the case for these ships. Jon, Dany and Arya are central characters in the series.

Jonerys and Jonrya shippers are not writing essays taking away from Jon and Sansa's relationship - because that relationship is nonexistent. There's nothing to take away from! Other shippers don't have to make up things out of thin air or hate on Sansa for having a relationship with Jon. She doesn’t have one!

There's actual little clues in the books that could point to either Jonerys and Jonarya instead of shippers being excited that Jon's book chapter followed Sansa’s or snow fell on her face lol.

Jonsas literally erase Arya from her story in the books and her relationship with Jon to insert Sansa in there. Jonrya shippers don’t need to do that - Arya has a central story in the North and Jon Snow literally died for her in the last book!

And that's why all these anti posts from people like Daensa shippers grouping Jonerys/Jonrya together with a crackship like Jonsa makes no sense. If anything, considering how these shippers have now started becoming obnoxious as well with their 'Oh look at us, we are so edgy and superior!' shit, Jonsa will fit right in with them.

[reginarubie]

I wonder, what do all the people who say that Sansa is power hungry because she “was upset Jon was given the Northern crown” think of Daenerys not even considering to ask Jon if he wants the Iron throne at all?

Like how do you define her when someone else with a better claim (show-wise, we shall see book-wise) comes along and her reply is “we don’t tell anyone so I can still take the IT?”

I mean, let’s say for argument sake that Sansa was upset (which I don’t believe but I could be wrong) okay?

Even as upset as she was she still supported Jon as KitN when he was off South bending the knee when the lords offer to crown her. She cuts them off immediately.

And, when Bran arrived in Winterfell even though he can’t father children, which kinda rules him out as the fittest Stark to rule Winterfell by medieval criteria but I digress, she offers him the title of Lord of Winterfell therefor offering him the power she was so hungry for.

And some people define that being “power hungry”.

And if we count her gaining the North’s independence and telling Jon he was the king she had envisioned for the North but its independence had a price still people call that “power hungry Sansa” because she ends up on a throne she fought for.

Same as Daenerys if she had stayed on the throne she would have fought for that.

But what of Daenerys? Okay she lived her life (show-wise because in the books there is fAegon) thinking she was the only Targaryen left and therefor the rightful ruler (which... the successions law does not work like that when your father was dethroned and someone from the new dynasty is still alive) but then along comes Jon who did bend the knee to her as Jon Snow and now discovers he is actually a true born Targaryen and in her own words he has the better claim to the IT.

He did not bend the knee as Aegon Targaryen.

What does she do? She doesn’t even ask him if he wants the IT (I mean if she loves him and believes in him and wants to stay with him why doesn’t she offer marriage or to back his claim too? Or for them to rule together?) she just tells him “Let’s not tell anyone so no one knows and I can still be the rightful queen”.

You know, Sansa loved Jon enough (even just as a brother) to back his claim and support him even when he was named KitN over her.

But what Dany does is being ambitious.

Why two measures? If Daenerys is ambitious and not power hungry why is Sansa defined power hungry instead of ambitious? I mean it has no sense.

They are both ambitious women. And we should respect that.

If we respect Dany for her ambition (I have my problems with her character but I can appreciate a character well written) why are we to condemn Sansa for the very same ambition?

In the end Daenerys wanted to overrule Jon’s claim and those who define Sansa power hungry do so because they think she overruled Jon’s claim... those two women did or wanted to do the same thing. Why defining them differently? Either they are both power hungry or both are ambitious.

To be clear I do not think Sansa was power hungry. Ambitious I can see, in a way, and I see nothing wrong with that. And for the record I don’t think Daenerys was power hungry she was ambitious and that thirst for power became her sole focus but that didn’t make her power hungry off the bat. She is an ambitious woman who wants the right that she see as stolen from her. Same as Sansa who wants to take back Winterfell and free the North and “sees it as her right” you know since she is the eldest Stark alive?

Daenerys was ambitious? Fine. I think she was ambitious too. Her ambition wasn’t her problem at least show-wise.

I think the only difference between the two is the way they responded (show-wise) to their ambition being rejected. Sansa was overlooked time and time again (no matter her ambitions) and what she does? She keeps fighting for the people who overlooked her and supports the man they choose in her stead. Daenerys is rejected by the people of Westeros and goes “let it be fear”.

I think that’s the main difference and not the fact that both are ambitious.

But perhaps I am wrong, who knows?

[lupinusalbus]

More on Jon, Dany & Sansa in Season 8

I rematched some of season eight recently and honed in on the finale in particular and two of Jon’s scenes with Tyrion.  I wrote a post about it that got some good discussion, you can read it here.  My contention was that those two scenes were the straw that broke the camel’s back and almost totally ruined Jon’s character, even making him into a caricature of his former self.  My argument wasn’t that the rest of season eight was wonderful, since there were a lot of other plot holes and omissions.  But I did think the series could have wrapped up better for Jon if the writers had not had him arguing with Tyrion and even justifying Dany’s clearly evil actions.  Some people have told me they thought Jon was just “in denial” in that scene, but I’m not sure because the only thing that seemed to wake him up was Tyrion’s last comment about Arya and Sansa.  Then he seemed to not know right from wrong after he killed Dany either, in another horrible scene with Tyrion.  I think a lot of the discussion around season eight is related to what is going to happen in the books.  I’m not defending D&Ds writing at all, but at least some of the unpopular events of season eight probably come directly from what Martin told them and then D&D messed up the execution because they were so focused on delivering spectacle over substance.  

I can’t remember where I read it now, but its probably true that many of the events of season eight are slated to happen in A Dream of Spring.  That may mean that it will be years before we ever find out Martin’s intentions about Jon Snow’s role in the plot after he comes back from the dead.  I think its pretty certain that Dany is going to burn King’s Landing like she did in The Bells. One of the reasons is because it was even foreshadowed earlier in the show when Bran had the vision of the Dragon’s shadow over King’s Landing, and also Dany’s vision in the House of the Undying.  If you recall, Dany saw herself next to the Iron Throne in a scene reminiscent of the finale, and also saw herself going across The Wall and seeing the dead Drogo and their baby.  So her death was always going to be brought about by Jon, and probably in the Red Keep.  Maybe there will be a second dance of dragons in the books, since Martin hinted at it, and maybe Jon will be involved, since he did ride Rhaegal.  Or maybe fAegon will be involved, we don’t know.  

I think there is reason to believe Jon will bend the knee in the books as well, but I don’t fault anyone who thinks otherwise.  One of the reasons I think so is that Dany fed Jon’s line to Mance back to him “isn’t their survival more important than your pride?” Even though we know this line is especially rich coming from Dany, it is something that Jon would seriously ask himself.  So there is a possible answer for people who doubt Jon would “betray” the North by kneeling.  Tormund (I think) also says something like this about Mance when jon and he are walking together during the Wight Hunt.  So it seems like this is a possible answer that was set up by D&D in the show, and that explanation may also be in line with what Jon tells the Northern Lords and Sansa.  We don’t have to like it, and Dany may actually have been better off had Jon not bent the knee, but she kind of instigated the whole thing by feeding that line to Jon about his pride.

And Jon’s arc as a whole is meant to shadow Ned’s.  It can be argued that Ned pulled off a big deception by keeping Jon’s parents secret, so he was capable of lying.  But on the other hand, Ned’s downfall is linked to his being idealistic and doing his duty.  He tipped Cersei off that he knew about Jaimie being her children’s father, and he trusted Littlefinger too.  His arc in King’s Landing was about an honorable man walking into a nest of vipers.  Sansa has the best handle on what happened to Ned, and that’s why she warns Jon; she sees Jon as being too much like him.  Jon’s reasons for killing Dany also mirror Ned’s reason for “confessing” - saving the girls.  After talking to Varys, Ned puts his pride aside and confesses to being a traitor.

Jon’s actions in the Red Keep echo Ned’s in another way. After the first sack of King’s Landing, Ned left in a rage over the murders of Elia Martel’s children.  Jon confronts Dany about her burning of children after her “sack.”  In some sense Jon’s killing of Dany finishes Ned’s arc, because Jon’s action brings about a “New Kingdom” which will hopefully be more just for everyone. Jon proves to be Ned’s son and not a Targaryen.  In any case, this is another reason to think that Jon was not engaging in a deception when he bent the knee to Dany and became her lover.  Had he done so, it would have weakened the elegance of his arc concerning Jon’s parallels with Ned Stark.

Sansa and Jon are both Ned’s Children and his “Spiritual Heirs”

The arc of Sansa and Jon’s relationship is one of the most fascinating ones in the series, and will probably be so in the books as well.  In the show, Sansa reunites with Jon Snow after escaping an abusive marriage with Ramsay Bolton.  The two were not close as children, although in the books they think about each other sometimes.  In the show, after the two have an emotional reunion at Castle Black, one of Jon’s first actions is to tell Sansa that they will stay together after he leaves the Night’s Watch.  This signifies how he thinks of her: he will take on Ned’s role as her protector.  Of course this may be foreshadowing other things as well, but at the very least, Jon’s commitment to Sansa, Ned’s memory, and the Starks is on full display.  Sansa has been bereft of the kindness and love of her family for so long, and Jon is restoring it to her.  In her new maturity, Sansa apologizes to Jon for her haughty ways of the past, although Jon is quite magnanimous about it.  Soon, she convinces Jon to try and regain Winterfell.  Although Sansa has never actively disliked Jon, apparently she has gained new insights into his goodness and has accepted him as a true son of Ned Stark, even if his name is Snow.  If something similar happens in the books, part of Sansa’s insight here may be related to her having spent time as the “bastard,” Alayne Stone.

Although there are hints of conflict between Jon and Sansa in the story, and Sansa is shown to be more perceptive than Jon about his relationship with Dany, Sansa is loyal to Jon.  This is foreshadowed in the scene where Jon admonishes Sansa that they need to trust each other and can’t fight a war amongst themselves.  Much is always made about how Sansa has learned things from treacherous characters like Cersei and Littlefinger, but she has also learned from Jon who may be the purest character on the show.  The disagreements between Jon and Sansa revolve around trust and faith.  Even though Jon has been blind in some respects, he is never really motivated by revenge or the pursuit of power.  Sansa’s arc is often about finding the medium between her considerable ability to analyze and anticipate situations, yet trying to stay true to the ideals of Ned and Jon.

Had Sansa lost faith in Jon and turned away from him, this would have affected the symmetry of her arc with him.  Instead she found a way to try and protect him, while at the same time maintaining the integrity of House Stark and retaining Northern independence.  Together, the Stark children have ushered in a new era for Westeros.  This was especially brought about through Jon (like Ned before him) making a fateful choice and taking upon himself a reviled label.  Jon’s story, as it was given imperfectly in the series, is the fulfillment of a wider arc.

[lariskapargitay]

Brienne of Tarth is Lightbringer

Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow and Stannis Baratheon.

All three are grey heroes in the series, one of which is the most popular character in the book and especially the show. All three are legendary figures from their respected Houses- the one true king who should have been Lord of Stormsend, the secret prince born of ice and fire, and then there is the Mother of Dragons, Mysha, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains and the last (so far as we know) Dragon.

All three have been, supposedly, chosen by the Lord of Light, and all three are the leading choices for Azor Ahai with their individual weapons (dragons, a valyrian steel sword and a burning sword) acting as the legendary weapon Lightbringer.

It makes sense; the great leaders who’ve been prophesied to end the long night. One even has DRAGONS, it would be absolute folly to imagine anyone else’s from three big huge players, one of whom the series is named for whose story is so heavily linked to the Others, to act as Azor Ahai or the weapon prophesied to end the Long Night; Lightbringer.

This post isn’t to dissuade those three or others from being AA or LB, but rather to put forth a new candidate to act as the legendary metaphorical ‘sword’. Someone who was a supporting player for the second and third books, ignored in the show, and for some reason people consider boring when she finally gets a chance to shine in her own POV.

Brienne of Tarth.

The ugly girl who wants to be a knight, a noblewoman whose house isn’t a great one, who has blood ties to both the Targaryen and Baratheon dynasty and who were kings and queens in their own right once upon a time. Not much is known about House Tarth apart from their sigil, rose and azure quartered with yellow suns and white crescent moons, the name of their keep Evenfall. Their descendants were not always called ‘Tarth’ though, their family name was once ‘Evenstar’, which has been passed down to be the official title of the Lord of Tarth.

Their House seems to have a fond appreciation for the sky and all that comes from it, including naming the small little island off Tarth ‘Morne’ to stand for morning, with only House Dayne as a challenger in regards to their love and admiration for the celestial. All that to say; House Tarth values light, in all its natural forms. The sun, the moon, the stars, the morning dawn… Their sigil and title literally brings light *looks directly at the camera like I’m in the office*, and it is one of only sigils where no matter what; it cannot be killed. No matter if the Dead or Living wins the war, the sun and moon and the evenstar will rise day after day until the end of eternity. Dragons and krakens and crows and stags and direwolves and lions can be killed, but the lights in the sky can never be.

The title of Evenstar itself also has connections to Lightbringer. Lucifer means ‘Lightbringer’ and it is the Latin name for the planet Venus. Venus used to be called ‘Evenstar’, and Evenstar is, as covered above, the title of the Lord of Tarth. With Faegon attacking Tarth, it is safe to presume that Selwyn, her father, is dead and Brienne is now the Lady of Tarth making HER the Evenstar which literally, not metaphorically, makes her, Lightbringer (which is something no other contender can claim.)

Another language fact is Tarth means smoke or fog in the Welsh language. “Born amidst salt and smoke,” is a large part of the prophecy of AA & LB and Brienne, being born on an island that means smoke in the middle of a salt sea…

ACOK Davos I

“To oppose it, the hero must have a hero's blade, oh, like none that had ever been.”

AFFC Brienne I

>When she was small, her nurse filled her ears with tales of valor, regaling her with noble exploits of Ser Galladon of Morne, Florian the Fool, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and other champions. Each man bore a famous sword, and surely Oathkeeper belonged in their company, even if she herself did not.

Brienne often thinks of Oathkeeper as a ‘magic sword’, and here she not only calls it a heroes sword, but she is humble enough not to consider herself amongst them. The sword is worthy of being a part of something great but not Brienne herself. And right after she refuses to call herself a hero, she kneels, blade in hand, and says a prayer to the Crone whose known to bring light *once again looks at the camera like I’m in the office* to help guide people who would ask for it.

>**AFFC Brienne I**

>Kneeling between the bed and wall, she held the blade and said a silent prayer to the Crone, whose golden lamp showed men the way through life. Lead me, she prayed, **LIGHT THE WAY BEFORE ME**, show me the path that leads to Sansa.

Now, onto a huge moment for Brienne, where a large bulk of this theory comes from. The dream Jaime has, the prophetic Weirwood dream where most of his prophecies have come true.

>**ACOK Davos I**

>“In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword.

>**ASOS Jaime VI**

>Brienne’s sword took flame as well, burning silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more.

>Brienne moved her longsword back and forth, watching the silvery flames shift and shimmer.

>Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne’s burned, as the ghosts came rushing in.

Lightbringer is, in its most basic form, a burning sword. Brienne, Stannis, Thoros, Beric, Jon and Jaime are the only ones to use a burning sword. Stannis sword is proven to be a fake, Thoros uses tricks to get his sword to light on fire, and Beric had a legitimate magical burning sword but he gave up his life for Lady Stoneheart. That leaves Jon in his dream then Jaime and Brienne in Jaime’s dream.

Again, this essay is not to dissuade the other candidates, but I personally do not believe that GRRM is the type of writer to let the secret dragon prince, the just leader, the Aragorn of Westeros get the big prophecy fight in the end. Aragorn wasn’t the one to destroy the ring, it was the unsuspecting big footed hobbit who saved the day. In any case Brienne DOES carry a flaming sword she uses to fight the dead, and she is the ONLY LIGHT left in Jaime’s world and the world itself. And yes, Jon does carry a red flaming sword in his dream whereas Brienne carries a silvery blue flaming sword in Jaime’s dream, but Oathkeeper, her sword, is red and black. It’s spell forged, it’s magic, **IT COMES ALIVE IN THE SIGHT OF FIRE**.

>**ACOK Davos I**

>And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.”

>**AFFC Brienne VIII**

>In the light from the firepit the red and black ripples in the blade almost seemed to move.

Let’s move on to another significant moment in Jaime’s dream is when a naked beautiful Brienne touches him.

>**ADWD Jon III**

>Therefore after Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm.

>**ASOS Jaime VI**

>She put a hand on his shoulder and he shuddered at the sudden touch. She’s warm.

Brienne is warm in his dream just as Lightbringer the sword is warm, she carries a flaming sword, she brings light, she’s the only light in the world… The dream can be interpreted in a few ways, mostly done to either prove or disprove an eventual romance between Jaime and Brienne, (I 10000% proves it does along with all the other evidence but that’s another 2000 word essay for another time.) But I believes it also offered a substantial amount of proof to my theory that Brienne is in fact Lightbringer. Melisandre even says the Lord of Light created the sun and moon and stars to assist them in ‘keeping the night at bay.’ .

>**ADWD Jon III**

>The Lord of Light made the sun and moon and stars to light our way, and gave us fire to keep the night at bay.”

Once again; let me bring back the Tarth fascination with the celestial

>**AFFC Brienne II**

>The arms of Tarth were quartered rose and azure, and bore a yellow sun and crescent moon.

>**ASOS Jaime IV**

>“I am Brienne of Tarth, daughter to Lord Selwyn the Evenstar, and sworn to House Stark even as you are.”

Brienne is the sun and moon, she is the brightest star in the sky. Yes there was a magic comet that fell for the birth of dragons but it lasted only for a while then died off. The Evenstar will always stay in the sky, as well as the sun and moon. They will always bring light.

Now, branching off into LOTR territory for a moment, Brienne is given the exact same introduction as Eowyn was when she killed the Witch-King, as ‘no man’ could kill him

>**The Return of the King, book 5, ch. 6 "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields"**

>“But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter!”

>**ACOK Catelyn II**

>“He is no man, My Lady. That’s Brienne of Tarth, daughter to Lord Selwyn the Evenstar.”

Don’t you think there’s just the tiniest bit of coincidence that GRRM introduces Brienne using a VERY similar quote to another blonde shieldmaiden who is confused for a man right before she helps destroy the leader of a great and terrible undead army and helps save the day?

Now, all this isn’t to say she’s an absolute shoe in for Lightbringer. That’s not to say it won’t be the obvious choice and Jon and Dany or Stannis save the day and they get to rule Westeros for 100 years and they get to be the ones who tell the Hobbits they bow to no man. But what I am saying is Brienne is just as much in the running to be Lightbringer as them. And just how bards can slay dragons, and Hobbits can destroy rings; an ugly girl who wants to be a knight can most definitely be a Lightbringer.

[jonsnowwesterosworld]

Game of Thrones one year on- why it went wrong- Characters part 1

One year one from the game of thrones ending disaster I will be exploring in a series of essays what went wrong for one of the most popular TV shows of all time. In this essay I will be looking at how several characters were ruined by the show.

Character skills and traits 

Much has been made about the drop in characters intelligence as the series progressed. Varys and Littlefinger went from schemers with hundreds of spies and men to do their bidding to having no plans, no back up, anything, Varys suddenly turns on Dany and plots treason out in the open. 

Tyrion also has a marked drop in intelligence as the seasons progress, he goes from a capable Hand in season 2 to an idiot who screws up all of Dany’s plans and armies, as well as developing a set of modern morals alongside. In the books Tyrion is going down a darker path and has already pushed fAegon to attack Westeros early and will likely encourage Dany’s fire and blood and paranoia as to get revenge on his family.

Dany in the books has embraced fire and blood for the time being, instead the show kept her restrained to a certain degree and removed fAegon who is already in Westeros and is set to become king before she arrives, likely gaining the support and love of the common people. Instead of Kingslanding being destroyed in a second dance of the dragons battle which may happen in the books the show runners decided to have her turn ‘mad’ in the span on half an episode destroying 7 seasons of character development. 

By removing Sansa’s Vale arc they removed her from her training to instead put her in Winterfell, in season 8 the show tries to portray her as this intelligent amazing ruler and great player of the game of thrones. But she was never shown developing these skills or learning how to rule (which is another big theme of the books ruling is hard) we were just told all these things. Instead she was turned into Cersei 2.0 and during the Battle of Winterfell in crypts she acted like Cersei did in the battle of Blackwater. 

Arya in the books is extroverted and a warg with a keen sense of justice while the show later on portrays her as a loner, her arc in the books is about identity and the experiences of the Smallfolk and child soldiers. The show made her arc about revenger and turned her into a smirking assassin and badass warrior. But this makes no sense how is she so good she had half a year’s training with Syrio and then about a year with the faceless men and not all of that is spent battle training. She should’t be an amazing assassin because she dropped out and she shouldn’t be able to beat Brienne who has been training most of her life and is twice Arya’s size in a fight. Also the faceless men isn’t assassin’s creed it isn’t about fighting, it’s about subterfuge, poisons, reading people and being able to mimic them. The faceless men pride themselves on making the death’s look accidental and stab wounds are pretty obviously not natural. 

Like Tyrion’s Jon Snow’s intelligence and character takes a nose dive in season 8 to the point where he only has 2 lines. But in the early season he was never portrayed as smart as he is in the books. In the books he modernises the night's watch, he negotiates with Stannis, the Wildlings and the Iron Bank, he leads the defence of the Wall and plans Stannis’s northern campaign, he's ambitious- he wants to be Lord of Winterfell. His own actions result in the pink letter and assassination. In the show he’s a generic action jock good for swinging a sword but not much else. He can’t negotiate with the Wildings or convince the North to fight for him, he’s unambitious and judging by the battle of Winterfell is no good at battle tactics either. His entire arc revolved around the White Walkers but the time the battle ruled around he didn't do anything of significance.

[reviewpri]

Will GoT and ASOIAF have the same ending? No- and here is why:

We’ve passed George and that’s something that George always worried about — the show catching up and ultimately passing him — but the good thing about us diverging at this point is that George’s books will still be a surprise for readers who have seen the show. Certain things that we learned from George way back in that meeting in Santa Fe are going to happen on the show, but certain things won’t. 

The whole thing “ the show ending will be the same for the main characters “is, basically, not true and both David Benioff and Dan Weiss admit it in this pre-season 8 interview with Time

They spend an inordinate amount of time in pulling emphasis to the fact that they “meticulously planned this for years″ ( and they contradict themselves by word and action many times over, without noticing it.)

Look at this exchange:

“How long does the writing process usually take?

WEISS: It’s hard to say with this one especially, because so much of the endgame is stuff that we’ve been discussing for at least four or five years, if not longer. So a lot of the pieces have been put on the board years ago. You could go back to season 2 and some of these ideas started to come out. But the actual writing process, when did we start doing the outlines?”

Weiss does not know exactly when they started discussing the “ endgame”, but he is sure you can come back to season 2 and see some ideas there, which of course does not add up, except if they were retconning the whole thing because as the conversation they had with GRRM at Santa Fé about the endgame, by their own admission, happened between 2013 (before season 4 in 2014)  HOW THE FUCK CAN THEY SAY THE IDEAS HAD BEEN IN PLACE IN 2012 when season 2 was filmed and aired??

So, when Bryan Cogman want us to go back to season 2- specifically- to see the seeds for Daenerys insanity, you can tell it is a retcon because they are specifically pinpointing to a time where they started changing canon Daenerys to be more “ badass” and decided to use this to gaslight us into believing they indeed mapped everything out when, as I showed, they did not.

Moreover, look at the answer Benioff gives to Weiss about their outlines:

“ I don’t know, because we started going over it back when we were shooting season 7. “

See? The story departs from the books by season 5, season 6 is almost completely uncharted territory, but they only started checking the outlines for the endgame as THEY WERE SHOOTING SEASON 7!!!

Okay, now that I proved they are retconning Daenerys journey to hype this false perception they understood ASOIAF (” it’s about people, and power, and the pursuit of power, and how that affects those without power. “ - that is true for the first book - Game of Thrones- but GRRM had planned the series to be a coming of age story, a saga of three different families and how the legacy of their patriarchs affect the children) and are true to the ending (” pretty much the actual endgame )  because, as I imagine, they wanted to shield themselves from any backlash as much as possible, let´s turn one moment to talk about how the changes they made prove that they switched from a character-driven story to a plot-driven story in the last four seasons- and how this made GoT ending a mess!

First, they have been changing the characters since season 1 to fit their ideas and the actors who would be playing the parts. Case in point: Cersei Lannister :

 “ ...for instance, when Lena Headey came in and did her audition for Cersei. And we’d seen a number of actresses before, very good actresses, but they were all playing the ice queen.”

David Benioff, I am sorry to tell you this but CERSEI IS THE FUCKING ICE QUEEN! That was how GRRM wrote the character- not as a mother slightly drunk from afternoon mimosas ( “ Lena came in and she was funny and she was weird “), but as a force of nature, a volcano of ambitions and resentments.

Kit Harington is good with action scenes and not so good as a political player? Let´s write Jon Snow as the best warrior there is, as a man without any ambition whatsoever!

Emilia Clarke is good at giving speeches and being a badass? Let´s give her plot with Qaith to Ser Jorah and have Daenerys kill people every single season ( Book!Dany never killed Dorea and Xaro)

Peter Dinklage is getting Emmy after Emmy playing soul tortured, but mostly good guy Tyrion? Let´s have him be the moral compass of the story, no matter if in the books, he is among the darkest of characters in an already dark series!

Second, they do not see the story progressing in terms of character´s arcs, but in terms of points, of scenes they know it will happen:

“There were some details that were added later — but pretty much the actual endgame, the main climactic moments, we had in mind then. “

See how Weiss mentions “moments” and do not say anything about “character´s endings?”

Ladies and gentlemen, that is because they can still have certain key scenes in the story, but played by different characters!

Remember Sansa?

Remember by the end of season 4, she walked down the stairs of The Eyrie, with a new visual identity that was signaling to us that her journey, from there on, would be one of her making? That her alliance with Littlefinger would either be mutual beneficial, or she would get rid of him?

Then...season 5 came and DnD decided to scrap that. Book!Sansa stays at the Vale trying to protect SweetRobin and preparing a Tourney while increasingly resenting Littlefinger´s involvement with her life to the point she starts having doubts.

DnD must have found this boring....despite setting the pieces for this. So, they ignored a character´s progression to the point- they made Sansa take a pill of stupidity, eat Littlefinger´s shit and agree to marry North!Joffrey - so that they could give  Sansa one of those “ main climatic moments”- the rape of Jeyne Poole by the hands of Ramsay as watched by Theon.

There you have it guys : DnD ending is just a myriad of scenes from GRRM books they know it will happen but played out by different characters because DnD wanted to make the ending “ theirs” somehow and they think we will only care about those  main climactic moments if they happen to the already established characters.

This is why there is not fAegon and no Jon Connington in the story.

That is why they split fAegon plots between Cersei ( Golden Company + rule of Kl) and Jon ( the whole legitimacy and claim to the Throne)

Jon Connington is the only book! character foreshadowed to burn a city to the ground because that is his main regret in life- that he had been unable to do that during the rebellion, a hesitation that allowed Robert Baratheon to escape and, eventually, kill the love of his life, Rhaegar.

Had they adapted fAegon storyline, they could have burnt KL the way it has been foreshadowed in the books- between Jon Connigton´s hatred of bells, Cersei Lannister love for wildfire and the second dance of dragons between Daenerys and fAegon.

But they did not.

Season 7 we knew they had a scene filmed with Cersei, the motherly type Cersei of the show, would have lost the only thing that made her act rationally for the first time of her life: a baby.

BUT...

“ I don’t know, because we started going over it back when we were shooting season 7 “

They went over and probably realized what they could do with season 8 if they just ignored the foreshadowing they were setting about a war between two diametrical opposed queens:

Daenerys, the Bride of Fire, pregnant and happy with Jon, against Cersei, Ice Queen, miserable and barren.

This war would, of course only make thematic sense if this dynamic would play out, one player afraid of losing and the other, having nothing to lose.

They filmed the scene. The scene which would explain perfectly well why Cersei would become mad and try to burn the city so nobody would have it- and fulfill the Valonqar prophecy- but they scrapped.

The Throne scene between Daenerys and Jon makes sense...if it is between Cersei and Jaime.

and no, the vision of Daenerys at the second season- the one they now claim to have been “ all planned” despite the fact they had NO IDEA how it would play out before the end of season 3- had been ALREADY FULFILLED BY SEASON 7, with Daenerys choosing not to touch the Throne, which was covered in snow (Jon) but going North, beyond the Wall, with her dragons.

But, again, by their own admission, they looked back and realized...there was this amazing moment they could give to Emilia in the show and the only way they could explain this would be by retroactively stating the changes they made, by their own accord before they knew the endgame, had actually been, all this time, THEIR GENIUS MASTERPLAN.

Am I saying GRRM ending will be better? No...I am just explaining why you should not assume this mess came out from his butt because it came out of DnD´s butt.

(and yes, after all those cock jokes, I feel completely fine by ending this very serious meta with a butt joke.)

[nightqueendany]

I thought I'd come to you with this. It's about the HOTU and the 'Dragon has three heads' prophecies Dany gets. "three fires must you light: one for life and one for death and one to love… three mounts must you ride: one to bed and one to dread and one to love… three treasons will you know: once for blood and once for gold and once for love… daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire…" I'd love to hear your opinion of it.

This one is so much fun to interpret because there are honestly so many different ways to look at it, but of course, I have some theories. 

… mother of dragons … child of three … “Three?” She did not understand. … three heads has the dragon … the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. … mother of dragons … child of storm … The whispers became a swirling song. … three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love … Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt … three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love … The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. … three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love …

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name… . mother of dragons, daughter of death … Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire… . mother of dragons, slayer of lies … Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… . mother of dragons, bride of fire …

Let’s look at the second part first. This is the whole vision with the “threes” in it’s entirety and I think it can be broken into three parts:

Daughter of Death:

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name… . mother of dragons, daughter of death …

Slayer of Lies:

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire… . mother of dragons, slayer of lies … 

and Bride of Fire:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… . mother of dragons, bride of fire …

So Daenerys is given three titles by the warlocks: Daughter of Death, Slayer of Lies, and Bride of Fire. These are all things that Daenerys either already is or will become.

First let’s look at Daughter of Death. Like the vision as a whole, each section breaks into “threes” too:

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.

The first is Viserys being killed by Khal Drogo which is something Daenerys actually saw happen. The second is her son Rhaego as an adult had he lived as the Stallion Who Mounts the World. And the last is Rhaegar dying on the Trident whispering Lyanna’s name. 

With each of these deaths, Daenerys gains yet another title: When Viserys dies she becomes the Heir to the Iron Throne. When Rhaego dies, she becomes the Stallion Who Mounts the World. And when Rhaegar dies, she becomes The Prince Who Was Promised. Three deaths for Daenerys to get closer to her destiny.

Slayer of Lies:

(A) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

(B) A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

© From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

The first, the blue-eyed king, is Stannis. The lie that Daenerys will slay is that Melisandre believes Stannis is the Prince Who Was Promised. That title belongs to her. The second, cloth dragons swaying is likely a vision of fAegon during his war to take “back” the Iron Throne. The lie Daenerys will slay is that fAegon is actually Rhaegar’s son and the Heir to the Iron Throne. That title also belongs to her. 

The third…I am honestly not sure about actually. This one has me and many other theorists stumped. BUT, because the other two lies have to do with her titles, this one may have to do with The Stallion Who Mounts the World. Some say it has to do with Jon Connington because he has greyscale turning to stone. It also, may have to do with Jon Snow somehow and the lie that Jon is Ned’s son. Jon was born in a tower, he is often described as a shadow. But…unlike the others, it’s not nearly as clear.

Bride of fire (my favorite):

(I) Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

(II) A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

(III) A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness

Her silver trotting through the grass…the silver was Drogo’s bride-gift to Dany when they wed so this is a reference to him. The corpse on the prow of a ship…one of the Greyjoys. Euron or Victarion as both want to marry her. Now in the show, Euron wanted to marry Dany but Yara and Theon made it to Meereen first. Yara has kind of taken Victarion’s storyline so there’s no marriage but there is that alliance between Dany and the Iron Born. In the books, she and Victarion may very well marry briefly. And lastly…a blue flower in a Wall of Ice. This is our boy, Jon Snow. Blue flower is the winter rose which has always been associated with Lyanna (the crown Rhaegar gave her when he made her Queen of Love and Beauty was made of Winter Roses) and she’s Jon’s mother. And Jon is at the Wall “growing”, gaining more responsibility and power and eventually becoming Lord Commander. 

Before we get into the first part of the vision, let’s take a look at the organization of these. 

1, I. - Viserys killed by Drogo (Daughter of Death), Her silver given to her by Drogo (Bride of Fire). Both of those have to do with Drogo somehow but the only one that doesn’t fit is (A) Stannis as PTWP (Slayer of Lies).

3, III. - Rhaegar dying whispering Lyanna’s name - Jon’s parents (Daughter of Death), and Blue rose in Wall of Ice - Jon Snow (Bride of Fire). Again, both have to do with Jon and we’re not sure about © - Sone beast breathing shadow fire (Slayer of Lies)

The middle parts of each 2. Rhaego, B fAegon, II. Greyjoy, seemingly have nothing to do with each other. Anyone have clever theories for this?

How does this relate to the first part of the vision?

(I honestly have no idea!)

three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love 

three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love

three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love

We have Fires, Mounts, and Treasons.

But lets start with the Fires You Must Light:

One for life - hatching of the dragons. This event also slays the lie that Stannis is the Prince Who Was Promised because it is one of the requirements to be PTWP (waking dragons from stone, forging lightbringer) - which is also why I think the dragons ARE Lightbringer because Dany had to kill Drogo.

One for death - open for interpretation, no clue. Could be Dany burning the Khals in Vaes Dothrak. Could be Dany defeating the Night King or killing undead Viserion. Really no idea.

One TO Love (notice the difference in wording) - this is interesting because how do you love a fire? I think this may be her child with Jon. She is the Bride of Fire after all, she and Jon both being Targaryen, their child would be Targaryen.

Mounts You Must Ride:

One to bed - kind of up for interpretation because Dany has a few lovers - Drogo, Daario, Hizdar (in the books). But it’s likely Drogo because he takes her virginity.

One to dread - Most likely Drogon as he is compared to Balerion the Black Dread and he is Dany’s chosen Mount as the Stallion Who Mounts The World.

One to love - Most likely Jon as they’re together now and their relationship was not forced upon them (like her marriage to Drogo was) so it is pure love, not just them fucking. 

And lastly Treasons You Will Know:

Now, many people think these are treasons that people will commit against Dany but I am of the belief that these may be treasons Dany will commit herself.

Once for blood - (again many say Miri Maz Durr but) I think this is Viserys. He was her blood and she didn’t stop Drogo from killing him. Plus it is the first scene of her next set of visions for Daughter of Death.

Once for gold - up for interpretation. Could be when she tricked the masters of the Unsullied in Astapor. She didn’t gain gold but it was a transaction that she didn’t hold up her end of the bargain for. 

Once for love - up for interpretation also but I think this will be Jon dying a second time and Dany going against his wishes to have Melisandre or another red priest bring him back. 

So so far as organization, it seems the first part of each vision has to do with Drogo and the last part of each has to do with Jon. Each middle part of each vision seems to be it’s own thing.

But what does everyone else think??

Thanks so much for the ask! This was so much fun! 

[occupyvenus]

One point (plus some extra ones) on the Ashford theory and Jonsa

At this point most people will already have heard about this little theory, but let me recap the main points: In the novel “The Hedge knight”, the first book of “The Tales of Dunk and Egg” our two title characters are present for the tourney hold by Lord Ashford for his daughters name day. The tourney starts with five champions that would/could each be replaced by a man who defeats them in the joust. We only know about the final champions of the first day, since our POV character is in the dungeons during the second and the tournament is prematurely ended. The last constellation of champions we know about looks like this: 

Lyonel Baratheon

Leo Tyrell

Tybolt Lannister

Humfrey Hardyng

Valarr Targaryen

Which shows an eerie resemblance to Sansa’s suitors so far: 

Joffrey Baratheon

Willas Tyrell

Tyrion Lannister

Harry Hardyng 

??? Targaryen ???

Prompting the idea that Sansa might be betrothed to a Targaryen next. As every reputable asoiaf-fan will tell you, this might mean nothing at all (because getting 4 out of 5 right is a very, very low rate of correlation, those are puny 80% and the inclusion of the rather unimportant house Hardyng just ... doesn’t mean anything. That’s .. just a coincidence. And Grrm really isn’t the kind of author who thinks things through.) or that it might point towards Sansa being betrothed to Young Griff Aegon Targaryen next (In which case, 4/5 seems to be a reasonable amount of similarity). But in no way could it be Jon because, as with everything Jonsa-related, people are bending over backwards (their poor spines) to come up with reasons why this this can’t  p o s s i b l y  be a hint at the delulu ship. Basically, as long as you are talking about Young Griff it’s a nice, interesting theory, but if you try to apply it to Jon, it suddenly becomes the crackiest crack out there. Of course, makes sense. 

The most common argument goes something like this: “What matters is the surname they are known as. Duh. Joffrey counts as the Baratheon even though he’s a Lannister. Duh. Or rather a Waters or a Hill. Duh. And Jon would count as s a Snow. Duh. Not a Targaryen. Duh. It’s not about their secret, real name. Duh. But the one they go by. Duh. If it even means anything, it has to be Aegon-fAegon Targaryen. Duh. Who just like Joffrey, is known as a Targaryen even though he’s probably not really one. Duh. It’s Valarr Targaryen, not Valarr Snow. Duuuuuh #reaching LOL”

I assume that this counterargument makes sense if you deliberately choose any framework that excludes Jon. You can of course work with an arbitrary “What are they called when Sansa first met them?” or “What are they called for the most part of the series?” or “What kind of variation of their last names best suits me to eliminate Jon as an option?” but “What are they called when they were promised to marry Sansa?” strikes me as the more logical possibility. Since it is, after all, .. about that very thing.

So let’s look at who Sansa actually gets betrothed/married to ... She is promised to Joffrey “Baratheon” (even though he isn’t actually one), to Willas Tyrell, Tyrion Lannister, Harrold “Hardyng” (even though he’s supposed to take on the name Arryn once he ascends as Lord of the Vale) and since Sansa wouldn’t get engaged/married to her supposed half-brother Jon Snow, but to her cousin Jon (or whatever) Targaryen ... I would say it fits the pattern just fine. It fits perfectly even. This interpretation also eliminates any issues that come with Joffrey being the “Baratheon” champion and since at least three out of five names do indeed fit perfectly without question, I really see no reason to try extra hard to discredit it. She wasn’t betrothed to Joffrey Waters or Hills or Lannister, but to Joffrey ... Baratheon. Just as she wouldn’t be betrothed to Jon Snow or Stark, but Targaryen. 

We can’t be completely sure whether or not Jon’s birth name will also be ��Targaryen” in the books as it is in the show, or whether he will actually use the name but there is a good chance that it is and that he will in some form, so the possibility remains. And since none of us knows with absolute certainty what’s going to happen we are all just working with possibilities here. And since the show has confirmed R+L=J and had him be a trueborn Targaryen, I do think we have a good shot at things looking similar in the books. Not exactly, but pretty similar. 

Extra point one: The one instance where the ashford champions and Sansa’s suitors don’t seem to match is the absence of an Arryn-champion. Lysa also intended to marry Sansa to Robert Arryn so ... why doesn’t that match? Well, one could say that this debunks the entire theory, that they don’t have to match perfectly, that 5 out of 6 (or at least 4 out of 5 at this point) is good enough, but there is one detail that sets Robert apart from the other suitors: He never actually knew about the betrothal. Joffrey knew, Tyrion knew, we can safely assume that Willas knew, Harry knows ... but Robert was never told about it. He can’t be a champion if he never even knew that he was in the race. In all other cases both parties were aware of the engagement. In this case, one was not. 

Extra point two: None of those champions would become “the” champion since they were supposed to choose the queen of love and beauty together and since the tourney was ended ahead of time, we don’t know if they would have been the final champions anyway but ... isn’t it still a peculiar coincidence that the last five champions we know about ... match Sansa’s suitors so nicely? Could it be coincidental? Well, yeah. That’s the thing with interpreting potential foreshadowing before a series is finished. You can never be 100% sure whether or not something is intentional or not. But it seems to me that nothing is seen as a mere coincidence when it comes to Grrm unless it could be used in any way to support Jonsa. Then it suddenly is. Must be. Indisputably. Just a fun little observation I found was worth mentioning. 

Extra point three: While the arguments “the tourney was never finished so Sansa would never actually marry and stay married to any of the champions” and “the five champions were equal in status, there wasn’t one “winner”, so all of Sansa’s suitors will have the same “status” with none of them being “endgame”” are the most logical that are brought up in this discussion, I would also like to point out that the exact nature of Sansa’s relationship with the five suitors haven’t been too consistent either. Not all of them were simple betrothals since she did end up marrying Tyrion (even if the marriage was unconsummated and will most likely be annulled). Sansa’s betrothal to Willas is never official, only a secret plot between her and the Tyrells. The one to Harry is technically arranged between him and Alayne Stone and differs from the others in that aspect. We also don’t really know how that will move forward yet either. Her engagement to Joffrey however was official, agreed upon by both her and his father. There is some variation, you see. One was only a promise, one an official betrothal, one went as far as the actual wedding and we don’t really know how her engagement to Harry will develop. I’m only going to speculate that it will no end with a happily ever after for various reasons that I don’t want to get into here. Also, if we assume that Sansa will go through all five ... at least the first four kind of do have to be cancelled in one way or another because she simply can’t marry more than one guy at a time. All five simply can’t be #endgame. This does not prove that the last one will be, but neither does it prove the opposite. If the previous four wouldn’t have ended at some point ... there wouldn’t even be more than one. She can’t end up being married to all of them and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that the last one might break this pattern because it’s literally the only one that could break this pattern. She can’t end up with number two if there are still three betrothals waiting to happen. And since the five champions were fighting simultaneously, while Sansa’s betrothals happen one at a time ... the pattern isn’t exactly the same anyway. The five champions can all be champions at once but not all five suitors can be engaged/married to her at the same time. Just doesn’t work. 

Does this mean that Jon will be the last champion to 100%? Does that mean that it will be endgame to 100%? Or that the Ashford theory even has any connection to Sansa’s suitors/fiancees/husbands at all to 100%? No, of course not. But I’m tired of seeing the possibility dismissed with flawed arguments that only make sense if you go out of your way to reassure your own bias. 

[balladedutempsjadis]

On the state of the ship ...

Apparently, Nikolaj has said some things in post-finale interviews that are upsetting my fellow J/B fellow shippers. Now I am no stranger to being frustrated, angry and upset with this show, and specifically with how it has treated Jaime, Brienne, and Jaime/Brienne.  Those of you I’ve only recently “met” may not know this, but I rage-quit the show after episode 4.10, when Jaime does the exact opposite of what he does in the books, and has sex with Cersei in the White Sword Tower. At that point, I became 100% convinced that there was absolutely nothing romantic ever, ever, ever going to happen with Jaime and Brienne, and that the same was either true of the books, or it was a minor story that D&D felt they could cut out (like Arianne Martell, like fAegon/Jon Connington) because it didn’t really matter to the ending of the whole tale. 

I only started watching again nearly two whole seasons later because I saw all the GIFs of Riverrun on Tumblr and Nikolaj talking about it afterwards, and man, I fell down the rabbit hole again so thoroughly I may never find my way back again. I’m mentioning this to establish my salty-as-fuck non-show-loving credentials, so that perhaps what I say next may help those of you in despair over the non-happening of J/B in season 7. I’m not worried. I’m really not! I have faith in GRRM and to a much lesser degree D&D (because see above re: 180, and the time Jaime has spent with Cersei long, long, long past his quitting time in the books) that they are going to finish the story they have set up since Jaime’s and Brienne’s journey of bonding and pain together in Storm of Swords/Seasons 2-3. (And by finish in GRRM’s case, I mean he told D&D the ending for these characters, and it must matter that they are together, and by finish in D&D’s case I don’t mean to imply that it will be entirely satisfying. BUT I do think they are ending up together.)

I agree that Jaime’s journey to being his own man has been excruciatingly and frustratingly slow on the show, but … he is literally at the same place on the show now that he is in the books (far away from Cersei’s crazy because Brienne asked him to do something) and he is way more aware of his feelings and Brienne of hers than their book counterparts.  If, as Nikolaj says, it’s always going to be Cersei for Jaime, there were ways to write, film, and edit the storyline to make that be what we are seeing onscreen. But that is emphatically NOT what they did onscreen

Here’s the thing: they brought Brienne to Riverrun last season and Brienne to KL this season for ONE REASON. Just one. It was to establish that she and Jaime have romantic and sexual feelings for one another, that they *LOVE* one another, but have never been in a position to act on that love and desire. If it were only ever going to be unrequited one-sided love from Brienne for the flawed worthless Jaime who is irrevocably bound to Cersei, they would have had her THINK about him, sigh, and go about her business. 

Brienne isn’t at Riverrun in the books; Jaime handles that entire situation in the same way not because Brienne’s presence gives him a stake in the peaceful transfer of power, but because it’s the honorable thing to do (more on that later). Instead, on the show, they had her come to give Jaime a compelling personal reason to make sure there was no battle in which he and Brienne would be on opposite sides. They had Bronn spell out that this is a SEXUAL attraction by saying that from the way Jaime looks at Brienne and Brienne looks at Jaime, it’s clear they want to fuck each other. That scene, those lines, weren’t to set the stage for her to find true love with Tormund or some other guy we haven’t met yet. I think D&D are somewhat mediocre writers, and there are lots of things I quibble about with them, but THAT is just not something anyone who puts a drama onscreen would do. 

The show framed the scene in Jaime’s tent a certain way that was done for a reason, a reason that was repeatedly spelled out in offscreen interviews, and in commentaries, by the actors, the director, and the showrunners. They want us to know that Jaime loves Brienne and that - at this time - because he also has a relationship with Cersei, and because Brienne serves his enemies, they CANNOT act on that love and attraction.

As disappointingly short as the Dragonpit interaction was, if Jaime and Brienne were never going to be a thing, there was no need for her to be in KL. They could have had her go on the wight hunt as apparently originally planned. She came to King’s Landing because she needed to be there, to be a part of the cascading series of events and people this season telling Jaime Lannister that he needs to nut up and make his goddamn choice at last.  

And to lampshade that, Jaime sits there, watching Brienne, the most honorable person he knows, the person who TRUSTS HIS HONOR to whom he has GIVEN HIS HEART, and WHILE he’s watching her, WHILE she’s watching him, and his sister/lover is also watching him, Jon Snow says that he can’t serve two queens at once (JUST LIKE JAIME CANNOT SERVE TWO QUEENS, OR BOTH LOYALTY AND HONOR.) Jon made his choice; Jaime - who is in so many ways an older, bitterer, more damaged (even though he didn’t DIE!) Jon - has to make the same choice.

Again, there’s a reason why BRIENNE is there, why the show focuses on the looks between her and Cersei and Jaime, and the showrunners talk about them after the episode (we didn’t talk about why Varys is looking at whoever he’s looking at, did we?) There’s a reason why the ONLY other person Jaime talks to after the wight-demonstration besides his brother and his sister … is Brienne. The fate of humanity is in the balance and Jaime talks to THREE people, the three people whom he loves: Brienne, Tyrion, and Cersei. There’s a reason why BRIENNE tells him “fuck loyalty”; after all, the last time they met, she said “honor compels me to fight for Sansa’s kin.“ 

Sidebar: in the lead to “fuck loyalty” I almost got the impression Jaime was not only shielding Brienne from Cersei by his gruff antagonism towards her, but shielding himself too. How painful that he’d let himself almost hope that he and Brienne could be on the same side - the right side, for once in his life - and … then that all got yanked away from him. That’s why he’s so angry at Jon; because if Jon had only been diplomatic, maybe Cersei would have said "yes." 

That’s why he calls Jon a dolt while at the same time, Jon’s words about not serving two mistresses strike at the heart of Jaime’s dilemma. “So many vows, they make you swear and swear …” He served Cersei because of his loyalty to his family and to the woman whom he loved and who bore his children; he wants to serve humanity, and he needs someone to tell him what he knows deep down: some vows matter more, some causes matter more. The thing is that Jaime did that once: he tried to save a portion of humanity at the expense of the loyalty he vowed to Aerys. And that did not turn out so well for Jaime personally. 

Jaime can’t let himself act on his feelings towards Brienne, or even let himself feel what he does, or to think tenderly about her, because he thinks they’ll be killing each other, in a situation over which - unlike Riverrun - he has no control. Or perhaps even worse, Brienne will be off fighting this army of the dead, and will die far away from him.  So he puts up his walls to deal with her and the feelings he doesn’t want to feel, and then she blows up those walls with two words, and he’s got to face that dilemma again, and make the choice that he knows is right. 

And the reason Brienne is there saying these things is that she is the only person Jaime will listen to this statement from: Cersei and Tyrion are too devious, and have their own agendas. Brienne is the only truly honest person he knows. And also he will listen to her because he LOVES her, and it’s clearly devastating to him to think of being on opposite sides of a battlefield from her. (Look how relatively happy and calm and at peace he is when he’s talking to his commanders about the troop movements - he’s finally fighting for a cause that he believes in, and he’s finally going to be on the same side as Brienne.) And there is a reason why this is framed not as "Brienne asks Jaime to do something and he does it” but as “Jaime becomes his own man and Brienne is a huge part of that, because she made him want that, but she isn’t the ONLY reason he does this." 

 At Riverrun, where, in the books, Brienne never makes an appearance, Jaime did something (relatively) good because of Brienne’s being there; in the books, Brienne comes to Jaime at Pennytree, and he leaves with her, letting Cersei face whatever her fate is alone, which is kind of what he does at the end of ‘The Wolf and the Dragon.” They flipped Riverrun and Pennytree from the books, basically, and it’s because - and I FIRMLY believe this - in order for Jaime to be Brienne’s soulmate, to be worthy of the love that she has bestowed on him, he needs to be his own man. In the books, the order was different; he was already well on his way to fashioning himself anew at Riverrun; he didn’t need Brienne there to remind him of his honor and his vows, because he remembered them perfectly well by himself. Do I prefer the book version? In some ways, yeah. But on its own terms, the show version of the breakup also works for me. 

I guess I just don’t think there’s really that much cause for despair right now. Jaime left Cersei; Jaime LEFT Cersei. Brienne played a huge role in that choice, because Jaime chose to be the honorable man Brienne believes him to be, when she wasn’t even there to witness it. Let me say it again: HE LEFT CERSEI. He left her because he made a pledge and he intends to keep it. He left her because everything Brienne and Jon and Tyrion said sank in - he’s a slow learner but he got there in the end. 

Jaime’s lonesome departure from King’s Landing at the end of his s7 arc is giving a DIRECT lie to what Tywin told him in Season One: Tywin told Jaime ONLY his family mattered. But in fact, ever since he met Brienne, Jaime has been on a trajectory to understanding that individuals, their choices, and their actions, not their blood or breeding, are what truly matters. Jaime matters because he is JAIME, not because he’s a Lannister of Casterly Rock; his actions and choices - as an individual -  make a difference and have done since the moment he acted as an individual to save Brienne from rape. That’s why it’s so important that he left KL, alone, as one soldier in the war for the dawn, not as the General of all the Lannister armies.  Earlier this season, Olenna Tyrell said that Cersei, who is guarded literally by a dead thing, who chooses not to help the living fight the dead, would be the death of Jaime; well, Jaime left his death behind in King’s Landing and rode off to find his life, in the person of the woman who recalled him to life when he wanted to die. 

[jackoshadows]

@nymerias-heart suggested a while back that we do some TWoW speculation while waiting for the next book.

So I was wondering if ASoIaF readers on here could reblog the character list below with the chapter count they think each character would get in The Winds of Winter. Would be really interesting to see this. If we have enough data we could do some statistics.

ADwD was already a big book with 16 POVs and 73 chapters. Jon had the maximum with 13 and several characters had 1 or 2 chapters.  In TWoW, GRRM has to fit in 20 POV characters and cover a lot of ground and story. And we only have two books left to finish the story.

The list is below. Just enter the number of chapters next to character names. You can also enter 0, if you don’t think the character will have a POV chapter.

I’ll go first.

Aeron Greyjoy... 3

Areo Hotah ...2

Arianne Martell ... 3

Arya Stark ...8

Asha Greyjoy ...3

Barristan Selmy ...4

Bran Stark ...8

Brienne of Tarth ...3

Cersei Lannister ...6

Daenerys Targaryen ...7

Davos Seaworth ...4

Jaime Lannister ...3

Jon Snow ...3

Jon Connington ...3

Melisandre ...4

Samwell Tarly ..3

Sansa Stark ...4

Theon Greyjoy ...5

Tyrion Lannister ...7

Victarion Greyjoy ...3

POV chapter count: 86

Prologue: GRRM has mentioned that we will see Jeyne Westerling. Which means this will be in the Westerlands. We may see Edmure Tully and possibly the Blackfish through this prologue.

Epilogue: The Wall and the arrival of the Others.

Location wise split of above chapters:

Essos/Vaes Dothrak/Meereen/Yunkai/Dany landing in Westeros: 21

The North: 12

Braavos/Arya in Westeros: 8

Beyond the Wall: 8

The Wall: 7

Stormlands/Young Griff’s campaign to KL: 6

King’s Landing: 6

Riverlands: 6

Oldtown: 6

Vale: 4

Dorne:2

Total: 88 chapters up from the 73 chapters in ADwD. The chapters could be of shorter length though, if GRRM cuts down on descriptions of feasts and travelogues. This is where his editor could massively help and GRRM has mentioned going back and tweaking things. For example, that Arianne sample chapter from TWoW would have her get to Young Griff instead of spending two chapters just traveling.

If we look at word counts:

A Game of Thrones: 4082 words per chapter (298k in 73 chapters)

A Clash of Kings: 4657 (326k in 70 chapters)

A Storm of Swords: 5171 (424k in 82 chapters)

A Feast for Crows: 6522 (300k in 46 chapters)

A Dance with Dragons: 5781 words per chapter (422k in 73 chapters)

He needs to go back to AGoT chapter lengths and then perhaps the limitations of book binding would not be a problem.

Here is also a link to confirmed POV chapters in TWoW. But note that this may have changed since GRRM did state in a recent notablog post that he was going back and changing things - combining chapters, splitting them, rewriting them etc.

Arya: 4

Tyrion: 3

Barristan: 3

Arianne: 3

Melisandre: 2

Theon: 2

Aeron: 2

Areo Hotah: 2

Cersei: 2

Asha: 2

Jon Connington: 2

Sansa: 1

Victarion: 1

Bran: 1

Daenerys: 1

Davos: 1

Confirmed Chapters: 33

Below the cut I have put in some of my reasoning for my POV counts.

First, I think GRRM needs to refocus on his main story and characters and make his way to the ending. That means more focus on main characters and less time spend on secondary characters. He should be spending time getting Arya, Bran, Jon, Dany and Tyrion etc. to their endgames rather than spend more time world building and telling the stories of secondary characters.

For example, Bran had like 3 chapters in Feast and Dance while Brienne got 8! Who is the more important character here? There are two books left, Bran has to finish training, find out stuff about the Others, explore lands of always winter, return south of the wall, meet back up with Jon and Arya, play a big part in defeating the Others and become King.

GRRM has written material for an entire book with Arya in Braavos. Unfortunately ASoIaF is not about Arya’s FM adventures in Braavos and Arya needs to get back to Westeros. So George has chop, cut, edit and narrow down her story there to like maybe 5 chapters before she leaves.

So either George cuts out a lot of the fat, travelogues, world building and secondary characters or he needs 8/9 books to finish or he can change his endings to suit what he has written now or he can procrastinate and just not write.

Some of the things GRRM has said regarding TWoW.

GRRM teases about events in TWOW in this interview  

“I think we’re gonna start out with a big smash with the two enormous  battles,” Martin says. Presumably one of those battles refers to the  clash between Ramsay’s army and Stannis’s forces in the North (the  outcome of which was described in Ramsay’s letter in ADWD—perhaps  falsely?—but not actively shown), while the other takes place across the  narrow sea when Yunkai attacks Meereen in an attempt to overthrow  Daenerys. In addition, Martin says, “We have more deaths, and we have  more betrayals. We have more marriages.” Let the speculation begin. As  he’s noted before, Martin says the Dothraki are coming back into the  story (“in a big way”), and he says “a lot of stuff is happening at The  Wall.”

From his Notablog updates:

06/23/2020

Of late I have been visiting with Cersei, Asha, Tyrion, Ser Barristan,  and Areo Hotah.   I will be dropping back into Braavos next week.   Now you will have to excuse me.  Arya is calling. I think she means to kill someone.

08/11/2020

Of late I have been spending a lot of time with the Lannisters.  Cersei  and Tyrion in particular.   I’ve also paid a visit to Dorne, and dropped  in to Oldtown a time or three.   In addition to turning out new  chapters, I’ve been revising some old ones (some very old)… including,  yes, some stuff I read at cons ages ago, or even posted online as  samples.   I tweak stuff constantly, and sometimes go beyond tweaking,  moving things around, combining chapters, breaking chapters in two,  reordering stuff.

08/15/2020

For the nonce, it is what it is.   My life is at home, on hold, and I am  spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.

Now, there are three things that GRRM just has to get done in TWoW, IMO.

Daenerys Targaryen has to resolve her Essos plot and get to Westeros by the end of TWoW.

Arya has to resolve her Braavos plot and get to Westeros

Bran has to advance a great deal in his plot/Bloodraven/Others etc. 

(Note: I suspect this is one of the reasons that TWoW is taking so long. By his own admission, Dany and Bran are the two characters GRRM finds hardest to write and my speculation is that there is a lot of these two characters in the next book.)

So I am going to assign Arya and Bran the most POV chapters - let’s say 8 each since they are the only POVs at their locations. The Essos plot is a complicated mess, but we have other POVs focused on there as well - Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion. And Tyrion will no doubt get a good chunk of chapters because GRRM likes to write for him and finds it easy to write for him.

For Oldtown I am assigning 6 chapters - 3 from Sam’s POV and 3 from Aeron giving us a look into what Euron is upto. Or it could be 4 for Sam and 2 for Aeron.

I suspect not much happening in Dorne until they align with Young Griff. Arianne and Jon Connington with a look into fAegon’s campaign advancing into KL. Some Vale stuff with Sansa and LF.

GRRM mentions spending a lot of time with Cersei and Tyrion. Cersei remains the only POV in KL and that’s an important location. Jaime and Brienne are together so GRRM can use either of them for Lady Stoneheart/the Brotherhood/Riverlands.

Lots happening at the wall. Big battles in the North and the resolution of the Northern plot - Theon/Asha with Stannis and Davos with Rickon/Northerners. I am not sure if Jon will get a POV - so I am giving him just 3 in case. I think the majority viewpoint will be Mel.

[leofriths]

blogrates!

so last night i finally hit 300 followers after being stuck in the 200s for m o n t h s, so to celebrate i thought i'd do some blogrates! who doesn't love a blograte, ay?

quick few rules:

must be following this jon snow stan

must reblog this post (like won't count)

send me an ask with either;

🌈 for a normal blograte

🏹 for a got/asoiaf blograte

they’ll all be done later once i get onto the computer!! blacklist #jaime does blogrates if u don’t wanna see the posts, and info on the blogrates are under the cut! have fun!!

🌈

url: /10

icon: /10

posts: /10

mobile theme: /10

desktop theme: /10

overall: /10

compliment:

🏹

house: stark | greyjoy | baratheon | lannister | tully | tyrell | martell | arryn

allegiance: the crown | king in the north | king stannis | queen danaerys | fAegon

location: the north | the vale | riverlands | crownlands | stormlands | the reach | the westerlands | dorne 

career: hedge knight | night's watch | kingsguard | maester | septa | lord

religion: old gods | the seven | r'hllor | the drowned god | mother rhoyne

weapon: sword | battleaxe | warhammer | bow and arrow | influence | words

compliment:

[geraltcirilla]

The ending of ASOIAF/GoT

So GRRM has stated in the past that the ending for the television series Game of Thrones will be the same as the ending for his fantasy novels A Song of Ice and Fire, but the journey to get there will be different.

Here’s my theory on where the characters end up. (I’m only going to talk about Starks and Targaryens here, sorry, there are too many characters.)

Daenerys Targaryen

Daenerys stated famously to Tyrion in season 6, “I’m not going to stop the wheel, I’m going to break the wheel.” And I believe her. That statement is a prophecy. But what is the wheel? The wheel is the Iron Throne. The wheel decides who is ruler of the Seven Kingdoms based off who sits in the throne. For Daenerys to truly break the wheel she must destroy the Throne. The Iron Throne was created by the Targaryens and will end with the Targaryen line. 

But what happens to Daenerys when she has no Seven Kingdoms left to rule? GRRM has always stated the ending to ASOIAF would be bittersweet. Daenerys will die defeating the Night King and her dragons will die with her. Her legacy will be liberating the Seven Kingdoms from the Iron Throne and saving humanity from the Army of the Undead.

Sansa Stark

Once the Seven Kingdoms are liberated each Kingdom must choose it’s own King or Queen. Sansa has proven herself the best leader the North has had in a long time. She has both the brains and the name to be a great ruler. She will be Queen of the North. She’s very likely to marry a lord, fulfilling her father’s prophecy that she will marry a lord (as she herself is Queen) who is “worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong.”

Bran Stark

Bran has stated that as the Three-Eyed Raven he can “never be the Lord of anything”. I’m not certain what will happen with him. He might remain in Winterfell and be a sort of Maester Amon type character. I could also see him marrying Meera Reed and continuing the Stark name with their children (as women cannot pass their name down according to Westerosi tradition). Bran might also die, as any character who possess magic or is magical will end along with the White Walkers (Dragons, Targaryens, White Walkers, Children of the Forest, etc… in the books this theory is a little more tricky as all the Stark children are Wargs.) Bran is a character I am less certain about with the vaguest future.

Arya Stark

In AGoT Ned tells Sansa she will marry a “lord,” but tells Arya “You will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.” Why tell Sansa she would marry a lord, but Arya she would marry a king? Very peculiar word choice unless it meant something.

Arya is also known to love Nymeria, a Warrior Queen of Dorne, and even named her direwolf after her. Nymeria was indeed married to a King and had children herself. And at one point in ASoS Arya fantasizes about running away with Gendry and riding with him and living as an outlaw with the Brotherhood Without Banners like Wenda the White Fawn. Which leads me on to my next character…

Gendry

(I know he’s not a Stark or Targaryen but what happens to him is relevant to Arya so bare with me.) There’s a reason this guy is still around, and it’s not to make rowing jokes and smash people in the heads with hammers. After the Iron Throne is destroyed and the Seven Kingdoms become Independent, the Stormlands will need a King. Gendry is the last remaining son of Robert Baratheon, and he can be legitimized and take up residence in the abandoned Storm’s End as their new King.

This brings us back to Arya. GRRM has stated they will meet again, and there is too much foreshadowing surrounding her relationship to Gendry for it not to lead somewhere. (The Featherbed song, Arya’s questionable thoughts about Gendry on his looks and bare naked body, Gendry’s jealousy towards Ned Dayne and his hyperawareness of his and Arya’s stature differences, Gendry trying to make Arya herself jealous by threatening to sleep with Bella, the parallels between Robert/Gendry and Lyanna/Arya, Robert wishing for his son and Ned’s daughter to marry, and did I mention the Featherbed song?) 

As I stated previously, there has been much reference to Arya being a Queen and marrying a King (between Ned and Arya’s childhood idols). Arya is going to marry Gendry and be Queen of the Stormlands. But Arya is a very unconventional young women. She won’t be sewing and making tea. She’ll be a Warrior Queen and ride with Gendry, and we know Gendry is the type of person who would nurture her free spirit and never try to reign her in. Ned told Robert “You saw her beauty but not the Iron underneath,” and Gendry is the opposite. He saw her Iron first, and then her beauty (”a pretty oak tree”).

Jon Snow

Jon is another character I cannot predict, like Bran Stark. But unlike Bran where the stars are the limit, there are only a few possible outcomes I see happening for Jon. 

1) Jon dies one final, permanent time in the battle against the Night King. 2) Jon returns to the Wall, effectively ending the Targaryen line like Maester Aemon had. 3) Jon marries Sansa. I’m not a fan of them as a couple or this theory, but admittedly there is a lot of foreshadowing for them. Jon would be living in Winterfell, his true home. Jon was never interesting in being King but is a good leader, which is why life as a consort would be suitable for him. There’s parallels between Ned an Cat, the obvious romantic/sexual connection between Jon and redheads (Ros and Ygritte). Jon also fufills the qualifications of being “brave, gentle and strong” like Ned wanted.

Bonus Characters

And that about sums it up. For fun I’ll include a few more theories that are very obvious, because they are very obviously going to happen!

Jaime is the valonqar will kill Cersei, but die himself either in the process or shortly afterward.

Tyrion will inherit Casterly Rock and rule the Westerlands.

Arianne Martell will be Queen of Dorne, but this is obvious. She’s already princess of Dorne. But she’s not going to marry Aegon, because Aegon is:

FAegon. He’s a Blackfyre. Obviously.

[oadara]

There has been a lot of speculation on Jon's Targaryen name. Some say it will be Jaehaerys, some say it will be Aegon. I hope it's Jaehaerys because he was a very beloved Targaryen king. It would make sense that Rhaegar & Lyanna would name their son after him. Your thoughts?

Hello anon,

Well, according to the leaks the name they gave him is Aegon, which I don’t get and I don’t like. At all. 

I’m not sure if this is just going to be part of show canon or also be part of book canon. I hope it’s just part of the show. Both and the books and the show it is known that Rhaegar’s son with Elia was named Aegon. In addition to that in the books, we also have the storyline of fAegon. So, if Jon is also named Aegon in the books there will be three different Aegon’s. Which just gives me a headache for being so unnecessarily convoluted. 

The other thing is the fact that Rhaegar would name two of his son’s Aegon from two different women. I understand that in some instances in our world children were given the same name, however, that has not been the case in Westeros if you go by the family trees. Furthermore, the circumstances under which he came to have a second son are pretty shady, to begin with. And of course, how would Rhaegar know he was having a son, they didn’t have ultrasound in the middle ages and Jon was born after he died. If this was Lyanna’s idea, it was a really shitty thing to do, given how she came about having that child. Overall, this just makes Rhaegar and Lyanna look really horrible. And I don’t have the best opinion of either, to begin with. 

There is an old SSM (So Speaks Martin) discussing Jon’s name:

“Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned”

If Lyanna indeed asked Ned to keep Jon safe then it would have been really reckless of her to give him a name that would have set him apart. 

But having said all that I doubt that Jon will go by any other name other than Jon Snow. Had he had a Targaryen name, I would have preferred Aemon. 

TTFN