#but? he also needs to in a way. because keefe is the only person he has. his only friend. the only elf who will give him a chance.

[camelspit]

alvars so so so interesting to me. he hated his brother and his family because he was overlooked. he let the neverseen do whatever they wanted to him and did whatever they told him to do because he thought they cared about/needed him, something he didnt have before.

they left him to die. all he wanted was somewhere quiet to do it after everything. he gave up. but despite all odds the humans found him and gave him a second chance. and he hasnt looked back because he finally realized the neverseen didnt give a shit abt him.

i dont think it was ever actually about changing the world or doing good or whatever. i dont think he had any strong ties to the cause, he just wanted to be worth something to someone, and the neverseen gave him that feeling. he doesnt really regret anything he did, but thats because he never had any strong emotions about it to begin with. he only cut ties and moved on with his life after he realized that the neverseen wouldn't actually give what what he wanted. that they never cared about him.

hes selfish and apathetic but i think maybe the humans changed that a bit. they gave him a chance. they healed him. he has a new start and its because of them and hes making the best of it.

[lotusishere]

Sometimes I question if people actually understand Keefe’s character. If you look at his family’s dynamic, coping mechanisms, and age. Girl bffr. I don’t understand how people can’t understand him or mischaracterize him when all the evidence is RIGHT THERE. Look at his parents. Look at his relationship with his parents. Reread his memories and emotions he had for those. Remember that one scene of Alden saying he was proud of Keefe and Cassius was AMUSED by it. Remember how Keefe thought his mother was the lesser of two evils just to find out he was wrong. He thought he could at least put some faith in his mother because she couldn’t have been as bad as his father just to find out she’s a terrorist? That crisis is HUGE. He just found out he’s ALONE. He doesn’t have any parents to go to. He might as well be an orphan.

And don’t get me started on the identity crisis. You’re telling me if you were 14 years old. You just found out your mother is not only a terrorist that has been using you to hunt down your friends, but she also has to life she’s PLANNED FOR YOU. And no matter where he runs to he is FORCED to be what his mother planned. And the only parent you have left is a narcissist father who projects his own insecurities into you? Wouldn’t you feel trapped? Wouldn’t you feel alone?

For years his entire life has been something his parents have controlled. His grades, his social life, and the way he has to present himself. Everything he is has been controlled by his parents. I don’t understand how people don’t understand that THATS WHY HE LASHES OUT. That’s why he has this alter ego and acts all cool. He’s trying to be the opposite his parents want him to be. He’s trying to crawl and scratch out of the suffocating life his parents trapped him in. But it doesn’t matter because his parents don’t care. They keep poking and pulling him down. They’re messing with him psychologically and if you can’t see that REREAD THE SERIES. Matter a fact reread Unlocked and Unraveled because I don’t think you guys READ IT. This kid is drowning in insecurity, fear and trauma. He doesn’t know who to be. He doesn’t know what to do because he’s scared of hurting everyone that he rather hurt himself.

And to honest idk why people are shocked he runs away from his problems. Did you guys not notice how he forced himself to always be at the Vackers because he didn’t want to be home? He genuinely saw the Vackers as a family for him. A family he always WANTED. A family that he knew no matter what he’ll never be able to physically be apart of it. He was always running away. It’s the only thing he knows how to do. It’s how he copes because he’s scared. He feels like his presence, his existence, and his life is dangerous and unworthy to be around others.

He has spent majority of his life alone. He has had to fight his own battles by himself. He has had to deal with his own emotions by himself. He’s dealt with his struggles BY HIMSELF. He doesn’t know how to listen to people because he’s not USED TO IT. He’s not used to people actually caring about him. He’s SCARED to let people do that. If you can’t see that, that’s INSANE. “He’s so insecure and attaches himself to Sophie”… well maybe because Sophie has been someone who has fought Keefe back? Sophie has FOUGHT for Keefe. Keefe FIGHTS for Sophie. He is attached to her because she sees him. She can feel his emotions even if he doesn’t say anything. She doesn’t need to use her abilities to know. She knows him.

He attaches to her and says things like “Don’t hate me” not because he’s being manipulative. If you think that I’m going to wack you. He knows he’s self sabotaging. He knows he’s self destructing. He knows he’s a mess. It’s the self awareness that’s makes him scared. He cares about Sophie SO BAD but he can’t help escape what he knows. He can’t escape his coping mechanism. He can’t escape his past. He can’t escape the mess his parents have made him into. He’s scared of the only person that sees him to give up on him. He’s scared of Sophie giving up on him. Is it a selfish thing to say? Oh absolutely. But he’s not saying it for the reasons people keep villainizing him for.

Keefe is a 14 year old teenage boy with no parents. Nobody to properly guide him. He is a teenage boy who is traumatized emotionally and mentally. He is a teenage boy who is scared of himself. He is a teenaged boy that makes mistake. He is a child that is doing whatever he knows to survive. He is a teenage boy who loves people the way he wishes people loved him. He holds onto people the way he wishes people did for him. He is a teenage boy that has jealousy in his heart because he didn’t want a hard life. He doesnt want to be the mess his parents made him into. He wants to be loved. He wants to be cared for. He is a teenage boy who needs people to ground him, to be patient with him, he needs people who not only love him but understand him.

[genderenvykeefe]

I’ve been thinking a bit about the apparent disconnect between Keefe and Kelvin’s physical relationship and their emotional relationship, and I hesitate to call it a full miscommunication because Keefe did bring attention to it in episode 2 asking Kelvin about kissing in public and potentially getting married (which I think we will at least get a proposal by the end of the season if not a very weird and fun wedding).

However, I do think there are things that both of them probably aren’t saying to each other. I personally think Kelvin’s internalized homophobia is much more about their public relationship than their sexual relationship. In private, he’s extremely affectionate with Keefe and initiates intimacy quite often — Kelvin is a grown man, him nuzzling Keefe’s crotch while they’re cuddling isn’t an accident nor unintentional IMO. I don’t particularly subscribe to the idea that the kind of sex they’re having is any indication of internalized homophobia, nor is penetrative sex some gay goal line anyone has to cross. And I don’t think Kelvin not wanting to be publicly affectionate has anything to do with how affectionate he is in private with Keefe.

I do think there’s something to be said about Keefe and the emphasis on his kink and sexual preferences. We’ve known since season 1 that Keefe’s “satanism” was heavily tied to the BDSM scene. There’s been scenes this season where Keefe has spoken about kinkier things that quite literally got him aroused. Kelvin falls asleep during the hot piss monologue, completely missing the boner that Keefe has. I wonder how much they’ve actually spoken about sexual preferences or kink — my guess is to say not at all. But that conversation is something that needs to be initiated by Keefe. If he wants their sex life to be kinkier, if his sexual needs aren’t being met, that’s something he has to address. Kelvin is the less experienced one in the relationship, he isn’t too familiar with the kink scene or really much sex at all as far as we know.

The question then becomes if this is something Keefe needs in the relationship, why isn’t it being discussed? Why is there literal physical distance between Kelvin asleep on their bed while Keefe gets aroused across the room talking to himself? I think it would be a much more interesting plotline for Keefe to be the one to have some hesitance about sex rather than Kelvin. Keefe is coming into this relationship and into this family with a background he, himself, has said he’s not proud of, he’s mentioned to Kelvin before that he feels like no one wants him there — this has improved over the seasons and I think the rest of the Gemstones are pretty accepting of Keefe and his quirks (the ghost dress up aftermath). But the reality of the situation may not be something Keefe believes himself at moment. It was only last season that Keefe was kicked out of the youth ministry because of parental complaints. He might be unsure and self-conscious about this part of his life and who he is, he might not think this is something that Kelvin would want. And who could blame him when Kelvin has shut down his request for public intimacy, why would Keefe think kink would be any different, especially because kink and satanism seem to be intrinsically linked in Keefe’s mind? There also may be a desire in Keefe to protect Kelvin from current sexual “perversions”.

I personally find Kelvin being puritanical about sex while also wanting to be private about their relationship to be an uninteresting take on a repressed gay character and I don’t think this is the way the show is going and I don’t think that’s how they’ve shown to be Kelvin so far tbh. Just because Kelvin isn’t as sexually experienced as Keefe doesn’t mean he doesn’t have his own kinks or sexual preferences or that he wouldn’t enjoy them given the chance. And I think we’ve seen glimpses of that side of Kelvin already with the kissy monster and some other moments of intimacy between the two of them.

All this to say that I’m interested to see where this plot is going and how the divide between Kelvin and Keefe’s public and private life becomes more prominent and how it will be resolved. I do wonder if and how the writers will actually approach a conversation about kink and their sex life.

[myfairkatiecat]

okay so shannon giving us a keefe pov seems actually lowkey important and what i would do in the story rn but I'm not convinced she's going to use it to do the things I feel like we need her to do.

let me explain.

Shannon set Sophie up as a character who behaves certain ways. A lot of those ways are very good, and she's certainly a hero, but she also has character flaws that get worked through. For example, she can be a little reckless (personally I would have made all the same choices) (I know we think of Keefe as the reckless one but he's a different type of reckless) she can prioritize the wrong things, she can be disorganized, etc (all things that are super valid and understandable and make her relatable btw. I am a sophie foster defender)

and BECAUSE sophie is the protagonist, we see all of this develop. She has certain qualities that are a little stagnant sometimes, at least if you look from the outside, but there's actually a ton of development going on. She hears others' opinions on her actions, good and bad, and the reader sees how this impacts her and how she grows and changes, even if that change is nonlinear or in many ways she stays the same and just grows more mature.

Here's the thing about Keefe. he wandered out of side character territory and into second main character territory starting at the end of everblaze and peaking in legacy. And Shannon has been INTENTIONALLY writing him with consistent character flaws since the beginning, explainable by his past circumstances in fascinating ways. But we aren't there to see a lot of the falling out for that stuff.

A lot of people complain that keefe never faced consequences for stealing the caches or never had the black swan or adults yelling at him or mistrusting him or his friends avoiding him. And like... we do not know that. It could simply be that that was just not Sophie's problem at the time. Sophie also may have simply not been one of the people giving him a difficult time about it. In fact, we know she wasn't, but boy oh boy Fitz certainly didn't bounce back in less than five seconds. And we don't know what the Council and/or black swan did with him that sophie just wasn't involved in--and bc it didn't become relevant to the plot from sophie's perspective, sophie being the actual MC, it just seems unimportant.

Another thing is that Keefe has a lot of the same character flaws throughout the series, but they do shift somewhat with his experiences, and that's without us even seeing in his head, you know? So here's the thing.

Shannon went and started developing Keefe like a second protagonist (who is interestingly also an anti hero in some ways) and even if you aren't a person who thinks he's the most developed character on the paper (disagree but see where you're coming from) he's DEFINITELY most developed in shannon's brain, and that bleeds through. But then we ONLY see Sophie's perspective BECAUSE THIS IS SOPHIE'S STORY, and everything revolves around what is relevant to the plot from her perspective, and then keefe is just in the background being extremely important and relevant and having all these extra issues that we ONLY ever see from sophie's perspective.

Unlocked was... well, it was half a book, and only half of it was keefe. I actually do think his perspective was enlightening in some ways, but a full keefe book at this point kind of seems necessary to me. Because... he's taken on the role of another main character in this story, but we don't see any of that development happening, and for a lot of people i can see that getting taxing. Now I get that those same people also wish keefe would just. step back from the plot. and i get that! but I think with the way he's involved in the plot NOW, seeing his perspective is important, because sophie's POV (especially with her unreliable narration) doesn't give us enough of a window into the complexity that is keefe's worldview right now, especially with all the ways he keeps impacting things. it's just a really important perspective to have at this point.

Shannon, if unraveled is just keefe trying different human foods and giggling like a kotlc react on wattpad, I will probably enjoy it bc i love your work always, but i will also be shaking you by the shoulders because we need this book and you better spend it doing the things we need

[the-way-astray]

The Keefe Sencen Infantilization Argument (because I've seen people say that saying he infantilizes Sophie is a bad-faith argument):

(Note: This post is a repost. I had my thoughts scattered out over a few posts, so I wanted to put them all together in one cohesive post. If you've already seen all the original posts, then aside from like two sentences being reworked and the format being better now, there's like nothing new here for you. Sorry.)

Examples of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and my explanations as to why this is infantilization and not okay:

Lodestar, chapter 4. What I originally said: “There you go, rocking the whole adorable-when-you’re-angry thing. I think that’s what I’ve missed about you the most.” Keefe infantilizes Sophie by saying she’s cute when she’s angry. She is trying to express her feelings, and all Keefe can do is be all Awwwwww. Isn’t that so cute? She’s angry! How adorable. It’s a form of invalidating someone’s feelings, by treating them like they’re just entertainment or by brushing them off like that. It’s some of the most manipulative behavior out there. It also saves Keefe from having to actually take Sophie’s feelings into account. His infantilization of her also shows up in his incessant need to protect her. It’s icky and gross, and authors should stop encouraging this behavior.

Sophie and Keefe are having a mental conversation and Keefe starts talking about Sophie's love triangle/square situation and Sophie doesn't want to talk about it. Not a fan of this, because Keefe butts into Sophie's personal business, then when she gets worked up, he heavily implies that he thinks it's cute. But this one isn't particularly bad compared to the others. Don't get me wrong, I still think this is infantilization, but the best I can say about it is it's not the worst example.

Lodestar, chapter 46. What I originally said: “You’re so cute when you worry, he told her.” More classic Keefe infantilization. He once again invalidates Sophie’s feelings by dumbing them down and acting like they’re this cute, quirky, inconsequential thing.

Sophie is obviously incredibly worried. Keefe clearly knows this. And his comment is to be like Yeah, but don't you know that makes you sooooo cute??? Like, sir.

Lodestar, chapter 65. What I originally said: “Is this going to be another one of those nights where you spend the whole time yelling at me to come home? Keefe asked, making her sit up straighter as his thoughts filled her head. Because as much as I love it when you get all feisty on me, now’s really not a good time.” God, Keefe is so subtly invalidating. He treats Sophie like she’s just his personal worry machine, not a person with valid concerns and ideas. The flippant way he talks about her worry for him makes me so mad. He takes her worry for granted and throws it back in her face, without a care for how it would affect her mental health. He brushes her off and invalidates her because he thinks he’s so much smarter than everyone else. Not to mention he calls her worry “feisty” and further infantilizes her feelings and ideas.

This one honestly stands alone. Context doesn't really do anything to it. The infantilization for all these quotes is in the quote itself, because it is invalidating to treat someone's outburst of negative emotions as entertainment. Keefe basically just says that he finds it cute when she insists he comes home because she's worried about him??? He's like, yeah, Sophie's worried about me, tearing up her mental health over me, but like. She gets feisty when that all becomes externalized and she begs me to come home! Again, it's just a way he's able to brush Sophie's feelings off and disregard her opinion entirely.

When I say Keefe acts like Sophie is his personal worry machine, I'm saying he acts like her worry only exists for his amusement. He doesn't see the deeper feelings behind that worry (or if he does, he certainly doesn't respect them), and only see it for what he sees it as: something cute and adorable.

Nightfall, chapter 24. What I originally said: “‘I know! Our little girl is growing up and getting so snarky!’ Keefe pretended to wipe his teary eyes. ‘I’ve never been so proud.’” “Our little girl” . . . that totally isn’t creepy or infantilizing at all. The way Keefe talks about Sophie here is genuinely so gross, even if it is a joke. 

This is a joke. 100%. But it's a joke that sat very poorly with me because of the way Keefe verbalizes this. The problem for me is in the quote itself, again, because I feel like saying these sorts of things constantly is just so weird.

Nightfall, chapter 32. Wouldn't say what I originally said adds anything new, so I'm just gonna move past that. The larger problem here is 100% the fact that Keefe is clearly trying to joke to deflect Sophie's anger away. My argument isn't about that. My argument is that saying that someone's anger is adorable is textbook infantilization. In context, Keefe uses it as a way to deflect or joke. But the simple act of saying that is a form of invalidation where Sophie's emotions are made out to be some silly, inconsequential thing.

Anyway, about this quote in particular. Sophie is obviously freaking out, and she is clearly and seriously trying to tell him that his joking behavior is unacceptable. Keefe responds, not by listening at all to what Sophie said or what she's feeling, but by instead saying this. This invalidates Sophie's very real feelings as well as saves Keefe from having to confront what Sophie's telling him. And yes, this is a product of his deflection, but my point here is that saying someone's anger or worry is adorable or cute when they are trying to be serious is textbook infantilization, because it treats that opinion they have as a silly, child-like tantrum. "Awwww, isn't that anger adorable???" is what you say about a tantrum-throwing toddler who just got their favorite toy taken away, not someone your age presenting a valid, serious opinion. My issue is with the statement "Your anger/worry is adorable/cute" itself, not how Keefe uses it to deflect. It also presents Keefe, subtle as it may be, as the only one with valid opinions on things because Sophie's adorable little feelings get in the way of her rationality.

And before you say Sophie calls him out on this, yes, but he doesn't change. I'm not going to talk about it at length here, but Keefe apologizes to Sophie in the Nightfall scene after his bed rest more out of a desire to make up with her than a desire to change his bad habits. You can see this because he continues to do it into Unlocked.

Nightfall, chapter 34. Again, I don't think what I originally said adds anything relevant, so I'll skip that here.

The famous scene. I do admit that Sophie calls Keefe out this time. However, as I've already said, this doesn't stick, so it hardly matter. Keefe continues with this behavior through the series and into Unlocked, where he doesn't necessarily say these things out loud, but you can see he still thinks them.

Nightfall, chapter 70. What I originally said: “‘Much as I’m enjoying this sudden overflow of adorable Foster-rage—it’s not worth it.’” Ah, more of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and invalidating her feelings. If someone finds your anger or worry “adorable” and acts like it’s this cute little quirk, then that’s never a good thing. Especially if they enjoy it. Someone who cares about you should never enjoy seeing you angry or worried.

Sophie's having a serious, key word here is serious, discussion (we'll call it a discussion, even though that's not particularly correct) with Cassius, and even though her rage isn't aimed at him this time, Keefe telling Sophie her rage is adorable when she's being serious is still dumbing down her emotions to that of a toddler throwing a tantrum, not a grown-up (at least relative to Keefe) having a very valid reason to be angry. Just because he agrees with her anger, doesn't mean he can't still infantilize her.

Flashback, chapter 1, page 12. I think what I said in my original post just about sums it up: “‘You’re so adorable when you worry. I’ve told you that, right?’” (12) Yes, you have, and saying it more doesn’t make it any less icky and gross and infantilizing. It’s like he’s dumbing Sophie down to this object who only exists to entertain him with her adowabuw wittle feewings, instead of a person with very real, very complex emotions.

Keefe fans the air, so we have physical evidence he knows exactly how worried Sophie is. And his response is to be like, so cute! So adorable! Once again, this is serious, and Keefe is acting like Sophie's worry exists only to amuse or entertain him. I don't know else to communicate that that isn't a good thing. Someone being worried usually means they have something they're worrying about, worry doesn't just manifest out of thin air for entertainment's sake. Sophie also responds poorly to his writing her off, with what and the glare and all.

(Side note: When I was looking for that quote, I found a quote where Fitz says the exact same thing, I'm talking word-for-word "adorable when you worry" stuff. Like I mentioned in my disclaimers, I'm not saying he's more right for this and I'm not letting him off the hook. It's icky when Keefe does it and it's icky when Fitz does it. But I'm solely focused on Keefe, which is why I'm not bringing that up. It's also worth it to note that Fitz doesn't say this over and over again, the way Keefe does.)

Flashback, chapter 17, page 304. I think I'm just going to copy-paste exactly what I said in my original post because it's exactly what I'm trying to say: “‘Hear that, Ro?’ he interrupted. ‘She’s giving me her serious voice.’” (304) Another example of Keefe infantilizing Sophie and dumbing her feelings down for the sake of a joke. Awwww, isn’t her serious voice so cute? She only does that when she thinks she has something important to say to us grown-ups! Awwwwwww. 

Apparently, people don't get why this is a bad thing, so: acting like someone isn't being serious when you can literally feel their emotions and know they're being serious just because you don't like what they're saying is not just invalidation, but infantilization, because you are dumbing their emotions and the complexities behind them down to that of a child attempting to be serious.

I'd also argue that this shows Keefe's true colors: he only really listens to her opinions and respects them when he agrees with them. Disagreeing with someone is all fine and good, but you can still respect the other person's opinion and not dumb it down and act like it's lesser than your own. If Keefe said "Sophie, I hear you, but I think you're wrong" (in Keefe jokester language, obviously, not word-for-word what I wrote) then I wouldn't call this infantilization, I'd call it respect. My problems arise from when Keefe acts like Sophie's opinions are stupid because Sophie is the one saying them with that adorable little pouty voice.

Flashback, chapter 21, page 355. What I originally said: “It’s always fun when you get feisty.” (355) I’ve said this about a gajillion times, but Keefe’s infantilization of Sophie is so horrific, it’s like he doesn’t care about her at all. He just sees her emotions as amusement for himself.

This is a sad scene, and Keefe has every right to be emotionally . . . off in this scene. But it still doesn't change the fact that he calls Sophie's anger "feistiness" and then says it's fun when she gets angry. You could say that's not exactly what he said, but it's likely that's what he meant given the past few quotes I've shown. Keefe has demonstrated a pattern of thinking Sophie's anger is amusing or adorable or fun. Anger is a negative emotion. When Sophie feels anger she doesn't feel good. And Keefe is like, yeah, but it's cute! Do you see how that's not the greatest thing to say? It says a lot about his internalized beliefs about Sophie, and is essentially confirmed by Unlocked. And even if that didn't represent the way he saw Sophie inside, that's still a really shitty thing to say because it still carries the invalidation.

Legacy, chapter 3, page 70. What I originally said: “‘Tell me why you have that cute little crease between your eyebrows.’” (70) You already know what I’m going to say. Keefe finding Sophie’s worry cute is textbook infantilization. But also, if he finds her worry and anger so adorable, what’s he gonna do when the Neverseen are defeated and Sophie doesn’t have as many things worrying her?

So, the crease between the eyebrows is obviously because of worry. So by saying he finds it cute, Keefe indirectly says he finds Sophie's worry cute, though I'm sure I don't have to spell that out because he's already flat out admitted he finds Sophie's worry cute several times. I'm going to sound like a broken record if I repeat what I've been saying this entire post about why this is infantilization, so instead I wanna talk about that last paragraph there. Keefe literally knows how queasy Sophie's worry can make her sometimes, and he has expressed this before, as well. So he knows exactly what Sophie's going through when she worries. And still, he acts like her worry is amusing, funny, cute, or otherwise a quirky little thing. I don't understand how Keefe can be so invalidating, having had firsthand experience with Sophie's emotions.

“But I was only half listening because she gets this cute little crinkle between her eyebrows when she’s trying to be serious, and it makes me want to reach up and smooth her forehead with my fingertip—and I’m betting she’d think I was super weird if I did that, since it’s not like she’s my . . . ” (Unlocked, very first paragraph of Keefe's diary entry, 481)

Don't have an e-book of Unlocked, unfortunately (boooooooo). So the context is that Keefe is giving us (or himself???) an intro to what he's doing here, which is writing about his drawings. He explains that Sophie gave him the idea and gives a general overview of what she said to convince him. Then he says this quote.

Here's what I said, which I stand by: I hate the way Keefe talks about Sophie. She’s just this soft, kind of ditzy, child-like sort of figure in his head. He admits that he doesn’t care what she has to say, he just cares about how adorable she looks while she says it. This is a textbook sign of a toxic relationship. You should care about what your partner/crush says, because that shows that you see them as a person, not as your personal cover model. Also “trying to be serious” paints Sophie as this impudent little child who’s trying to get the attention of the older, more experienced adults and it very much implies that Sophie is not serious, but awwww, look how cute she looks trying to be serious, isn’t it adorable? Except Keefe and Sophie are the same age. So this is another case of textbook infantilization.

Personally, I think I made it fairly clear why I think this is infantilization. Keefe did not listen to the latter half of what Sophie said because he was too busy imagining how adorable she must've looked as she said it. I don't know how to make it more clear that Keefe does not respect or care about Sophie's opinions. He did what she asked, sure, but he did not actually listen to her. Again, implying Sophie was not being serious when she was is infantilization. It takes away the weight of what Sophie is saying and makes it out to be a thing of like, Oh well, Sophie told me to, so I guess I'll humor her adorable little wishes and give it a shot, but let's get back to what's more important here, which is how cute she probably looks! I don't know how else to explain that that's not an attitude you want in someone who claims to listen to you and respect you.

Addressing some other things (Keefe calling Sophie herself cute [1], Keefe's deflection [2], Keefe praising Sophie's prowess [3], Sophie not seeming bothered [4], and The Real Problem [5]):

I don't think Keefe calling Sophie herself cute or adorable by itself is infantilization. That's just a cute, fluffy teenage crush. 100% cool with that. My problem is with Keefe dumbing Sophie's negative emotions that have complexities behind them down to something cute or inconsequential by calling them adorable. There's a quote in the diary entries where Keefe describes Sophie's blush as adorable and proceeds to describe it in vivid detail. I don't like it for personal taste reasons, but I would never argue that this is infantilization. Because. It's not. There is no dumbing down of emotions here, no shrugging off experience or maturity. There's just a kid with a crush.

As for Keefe's habit of deflecting stuff through jokes, yes, it's a flaw and yes, some of the times Keefe infantilizes Sophie, he's using it as a joke to deflect. Yes, that's the larger issue. But the point still stands that the way in which he thinks of Sophie's worry and anger is infantilization.

There are moments where Keefe talks nonstop (sometimes in a very unnatural way, in my opinion) about how powerful and amazing and brilliant and talented and spectacular Sophie is and how he respects her choices and whatnot. I don't see this as particularly contradictory to his infantilization. Keefe can dumb Sophie's emotions down to cute, inconsequential little playthings while also insisting that he thinks she's amazing and powerful. I do think he does think that she's incredibly talented, but he also invalidates or disrespects her choices because he sees her emotions as adorable and unserious. Sophie is objectively powerful and talented and smart, I'm not really sure how saying those clear facts out loud changes the fact that Keefe still sees Sophie as very juvenile in his head. He can respect her prowess and capacity for talent while still disrespecting her opinions and emotions. The two can coexist. This is why I say Keefe pedestalizes and infantilizes Sophie simultaneously.

As for saying this doesn't bother Sophie (except in that one instance where she glares at him), I'd hardly say it matters. People can be the object of toxic behavior without realizing it. Sophie doesn't really seem to care past a handful of seconds when Keefe reads her emotions without her permission (on purpose, with intention), but I think most of us would agree that that doesn't make it acceptable. And Keefe's infantile views of Sophie say more about him than they do Sophie, which is the argument I'm trying to make. My point is that Keefe sees Sophie's emotions as inconsequential little things that don't need to be taken into account. This is all mapped into how he sees her internally. Again, just because Sophie doesn't seem bothered by Keefe's comments, doesn't mean they're acceptable, especially considering it gives us a view into the way he truly sees Sophie. And if Keefe thinks of Sophie is such an invalidating way, how are we supposed to believe he'll respect her when she argues with him, instead of just writing it off as "that adorable rage"?

And last but not least (as this is literally the reason people are annoyed with Keefe, regardless of what flaw you're talking about): the infantilization isn't the problem. Not really. What the problem is is that it is never called out by the narrative and when it is, it lasts two seconds, doesn't stick, and Keefe continues with it having not learned a thing. He doesn't change, and I can give you a thousand explanations for why Keefe may be so prone to infantilizing Sophie based on his childhood, trauma, and everything else, but none of that is an excuse. And I'm certainly not a fan of the way we're constantly told that Keefe respects Sophie when he's clearly so ready to undermine her emotions or dumb them down. If you're going to have him say things like this, it should be understandable that it's not a good thing.

I think it all comes down to this: Imagine you were trying to get a very serious point across to someone or otherwise feeling very emotional over something and then you look over and the other person's reaction is like, Aw, you're so cute when you're all worked up trying to be serious! Anger so adorable! Worry so cute! I love it when you get feisty! Wouldn't you feel like they don't respect what you're saying? Is that not incredibly icky and weird?

Here is the definition of infantilization. I think it's very difficult to make an argument that Keefe is not doing this to Sophie. And if you think that's bad, oh boy, is it so. Much. Worse. In the actual Unlocked novella. It's very difficult to deny that Keefe only sees Sophie as an adorable little cute thing that amuses him when you read it. But I'll get there . . .

Anyway I'm leaving it off with this because these are the vibes I get from Keefe every time he makes an infantilizing comment about Sophie (minus the yelling, Keefe doesn't really yell):

[dragoncookies]

The Unlocked Healing Center Scene

There are many, MANY scenes in which you could pick apart the ever-loving shit out of Fitz's dialogue and his actions, or just look at how his character is treated from the POV the scene is being told from and compare that to what objectively might be happening.

But one of my favorite's has got to be the Unlocked healing center scene from Keefe's POV, because GOLLY was Fitz just bagged on in that scene, in an almost undetectable way.

(This also isn't meant to be hate on Keefe btw. He's a fine character, not my absolute favorite, but there's no reason to hate on him. It just so happens that Keefe's POV of Fitz is especially patronizing in this scene).

First of all, Shannon starts the scene with presenting us with how lonely and sad he was, just straight up:

”sadness

Nervousness

Regret

Loneliness

Plus a hefty dash of anger.

Coming straight from Fitz” (-Unlocked, idk what page lmao).

I mean, the man was grieving. He just broke up with his maybe girlfriend AND lost the only chance he had to finding his terrorist older brother (who might or might not want to end him and who has caused him and his family immense stress/trauma for the past 4 books if not their entire lives to a degree) in one fell swoop (because of the maybe girlfriend he trusted a lot, not to mention Fitz values trust almost more than he does love so you could basically say the girl he loved).

Me personally? I would just cease to exist after that, but here we have sad, nervous, regretful, lonely and angry Fitz in the healing center waiting for his maybe-bro to wake up. 

Once Keefe DID wake up, Fitz was nothing if not worried for Keefe and trying to comfort Keefe. Fitz was obviously GENUINELY worried for Keefe. Look at this:

”Fitz tore a hand through his boringly perfect hair. ‘I get why your mad. But I’m only trying to help. I know what you’re going through-‘

’Right-you totally know what it’s like to have you mom do deadly experiments on you,’ Keefe muttered. ‘I must’ve forgotten that part of the Vacker history.”

’Maybe not,’ Fitz conceded, ‘but I know what it’s like to have a traitor in the family. And I also remember how scary it is to wake up in one of these cots after being brutally attacked-just like I know how hard it is to talk about what’s wrong, because it feels like you’re admitting the Neverseen beat you. But they only win if you keep pretending everything’s normal, because you end up making the damage permanent.’

’I’m not damaged-‘

‘You’re right. That’s the wrong word.’ Fitz blew out a breath. ‘Look, all I’m trying to say is that I wouldn’t be walking right now if I hadn’t let Elwin help me. I probably wouldn’t even be alive. So I want to make sure you get the help you need-and you do need it, Keefe. No matter what you believe. But accepting help doesn’t make you weak. It just means you’re taking care of yourself.’”

Such an underrated Fitz moment, imo.

First and foremost, lets just take a second to point out the "boringly perfect" hair comment. I don't know why this stuck out to me, but it shows how differently these two characters think. While Fitz has his hair styled "perfectly" because its been his lifestyle to maintain a perfect façade, here we can see that Keefe STILL doesn't understand just what goes beyond this perfect façade of Fitz's. Keefe values freedom, loves rebellion, and his hairstyle reflects that. Keefe makes it messy, but a masterpiece. To Keefe, Fitz's hair is just generic and standard. Perfect, well presenting, but it follows the standard of whatever is considered "perfect" to elves, so we can see that it is repulsive to Keefe's nature.

This is much the same as how much Keefe sees the scale of what Alvar's disappearance has done to the Vacker Family. Keefe continues to reject the idea that the Vackers aren't as perfect as he once believed. As soon as Fitz even mentioned the idea of empathy for Keefe, the idea of relating to him, Keefe immediately rejects it, and rejects the idea that Fitz could have gone through any mental/emotional turbulence as a result of the horrendous situations Alvar has put him and his family through. I mean, for crying out loud, Fitz had literally tried to kill his brother in an emotional mess of conflicting feelings and guilt just two books ago, and unheard of crime for the elves. Fitz had to spend weeks and WEEKS in the healing center. Keefe was there when Alvar, on his deathbed, described how the "Vacker Legacy" was what drove him to a life of crime.

Yes, Keefe was having a rough time to put it lightly, but taking it out on others isn't justified (if you want to be mad at Fitz for taking his anger out on others, now you have to be mad at Keefe for taking his emotional distress out on his friend). We can certainly understand it, but we can't justify it, and because the POV is from a likable character, we're more willing to trust what the character says. Since Keefe presents Fitz's actions in a way that makes them seem appalling and jerk-y, and if Keefe presents this idea in his POV that Fitz is always Mr. Perfect and never has trouble in his family, then the readers are more likely to believe that. Objectively, based on what Fitz is saying and doing, we can see he's struggled and is struggling a lot. Fitz had to have worked on learning to receive help himself (asking for help is a SKILL, believe it or not) in order to truly explain how important it is to Keefe in the way he did.

Who just says "Accepting help doesn't make you weak, it just means you're taking care of yourself" and doesn't mean it in the kindest, most sincerest way ever?

Not just Keefe can take this advice, anyone should.

Side note: I also feel like he gave himself bad flashbacks to when he called Sophie damaged in book two when he accidentally used the word here. Ouch.

At another point in this scene, Keefe also shows how irrational he can be, as Fitz is simply trying to do the right thing and get Keefe the help he needs, and Keefe is ABSOLUTELY DEMONIZING Fitz for it. Keefe's health was Fitz's priority, and Fitz didn't necessarily care if he stepped on Keefe's toes to get him the help that he couldn't see he needed (Sophie was in the room as this point):

Unlocked page 561:

“‘Uh, you should probably step back, Sophie,’ Fitz warned. ‘I think your emotions are too strong for him.’

’No, they’re not!’ Keefe argued-and wow,did his voice sound strained. He cleared his throat and tried again. ‘Nothings wrong. I swear, I’m fine.’

’He keeps saying that,’ Fitz told her-because he was begging for a face-punch. And if the world hadn’t gotten so spinny, Keefe might’ve given it to him when Fitz added, ‘But Keefe’s been picking up all our emotions without even trying. And he’s always been able to do that with you, so I think you’re overwhelming him right now.’

’Okay, I’m done liking Captain Perfectpants,’ Ro announced.

‘Keefe was right there with her-which was probably why he blurted out, ‘Uh, for the record, most of the emotions are coming from you, Fitzy. You wouldn’t happen to have some unresolved feelings for anyone in this room, would you?’”

I'm not gonna lie, if somebody read my emotions and called me out on something that I was VERY touchy about, and was a relatively new blow, I would just leave the room. That was an A class jerk move right there.

Not saying Keefe IS a jerk, because all the characters have acted jerk-y in the series and everyone has their moments, but it was still pretty rude of Keefe to make that comment. What’s annoying is that nobody in the books seemed to react as though it is rude when Keefe makes these kinds of comments. If it was anybody else who had said that, there would be an apology required in order for that character to be redeemed. 

Keefe also literally wanted to PUNCH Fitz, because Fitz was...making sure Keefe stayed alive? Because Fitz cared enough about Keefe's health to make sure the details were pressed out and make sure the facts of the situation were clear? So Elwin could actually do his job??

Keefe hated Fitz in this moment because Fitz was being a practical, helpful guy, but from Keefe's perspective it just makes Fitz look like an asshole.

Ro’s unsolicited opinions are also very unhelpful, since Ro is written to be in support of what Keefe wants (or just in support of whatever will make Sokeefe happen…she’s kind of creepy about her Sokeefe obsession ngl), it makes her more likable and therefore the readers are more likely to trust what she says or take her opinion as their own. 

But Ro saying things like “I’m done liking Captain Perfect Pants” is rude, because it 1), insinuates she will only like someone based on how much they please her, and 2) denotes him to his perfect facade, which undermines his brilliant and complex character. 

Eventually, Keefe tried to apologize to Sophie in a telepathic conversation. He didn’t remotely consider apologizing to Fitz. 

I mean, Keefe was crazy terrified and hurting but...I don’t get how when Fitz was hurt and acted out he was suddenly “toxic and trash”, but when Keefe did the exact same thing nobody said anything.

And nobody even knows Fitz is hurt because nobody asks him. Nobody talks to him about how hard the Alvar situation is for him because they’re scared he’ll just get mad and yell at them, or they just assume he’s just mad about it and wanted to kill Alvar. 

Is nobody going to see that there’s some deep emotional/mental trauma to unpack here? Is he always just going to have to help himself all the time?

At least Keefe has people who understand him, who are willing to talk to him about what’s wrong and help him through it. He had a seriously traumatic childhood, and I’m not comparing their trauma or anything, that’s not what I’m trying to do. What I am trying to say is, Keefe’s got a whole crew of people helping him, people who want to make sure he’s okay, people who care for him, and he rejects it, deems them annoying in Fitz’s case, and just discounts the effort and energy they spend on him.

There is a lot more to unpack from this scene, but it’s mostly all along a similar vein of what I talked about here (this is long enough haha). There are also tons of little details about the Vackers in Unlocked that just emphasize how pressured Fitz is into the Vacker mold, and how the Alvar drama just makes it worse. 

For example: reading Fitz’s registry file, it says that it is “highly suggested that he choose someone on his match list” because of how dragged the Vacker name already is. So when people want to get upset with him for choosing "his reputation over Sophie", we have text evidence that its more complicated than that. Fitz isn't just choosing between being liked by the world and the person he likes, he's choosing whether or not to maintain a level of peace within his family at his own sacrifice. SPOILERS! (if you haven't read stellarlune don't read the rest of this paragraph). Eventually it was his sacrifice, because as of stellar lune, Sokeefe is official. Fitz couldn't repair things with Sophie quick enough, so she moved on.

It also mentions in Keefe’s detention slip write ups about how people actually hassle Biana and Fitz at Foxfire for Alvar being apart of the Neverseen. Because of their family, because of the Alvar drama, Fitz and Biana can't go to school without people bullying them.

Theres also this sad note in Fitz’s Base Quest instructions where Fitz writes about how you can use you special abilities while playing base quest, but included a little side note that said “but it's no fun when you turn invisible the whole time and hide Alvar!” Which just insinuates that Alvar would turn invisible and leave to go do whatever else he wanted while Fitz still thought they were playing. :( 

Depressing. 

[lia-linny]

skz as kotlc characters 🤔🤔

Who the skz member would be in keeper of the lost cities

Note: ok, ok i got a bit too excited over this!! I just finished reading unreavled and omg!! I love keefe!!! Anyway... i had this in my mind a while ago but never actually wrote it because i'm not sure if many people will like this... (or even know kotlc) so thank you for the request. 💕

Bang chan would be Sophie. Why did I only just realize that the two of them are simply the same person? Sophie is an obvious choice for chan, as she is the leader of her group just like him. They both lead their members with a lot of empathy and understanding for their problems, but in serious situations they react with a certain strength and determination. They often put their needs second. This could also be due to their self-doubt. Their insecurities also motivate them to work tirelessly on themselves. And they both have the worst insomnia ever! Arg, it fits so well.

Minho is tam. They're both very calm and exude a certain serenity. Sometimes they seem reserved or shy, especially with strangers. in interviews, lee know is not a person who has to push himself to the center of attention and is content to observe the situation. In addition, they both express their affection more subtly because they have difficulty expressing it with words. Instead, they show it through gestures or actions. (acts of service bitches!)

I think Changbin could be Keefe... The two are similar in that they are often the center of attention due to their humor and high energy, which they use to lighten up situations. Changbin manages to write and produce profound lyrics and songs. Just like keefe, he is very creative and dares to speak openly about his feelings and thoughts.

Hyunjin and linh. Elegant, introverted, empathic, creative, the urge to be recognized for something else, than a beautiful face?! Yep Hyunjin is linh. Like?!?! She has a painting room, ok?! It matches so well i don't even have to explain.

Han is Dex. They are both clumsy AS HELL! sorry, but the number of times Han spilled his drinks is proof enough. And yet they are way too creative and talented! When one of them is bored, a new masterpiece is created on the side. Han writes a banger song that's far too good and Dex invents some technical thing that can solve all the elves' problems... And Dex is really loyal to his friends, who are almost like a second family to him, like Jisung.

Felix is a social butterfly, the sunshine everyone adores and a professional at socializing. Like jensi, he is popular and loves to talk as much as he loves to listen. Sometimes he just won't stop ramling but he always makes sure that everyone is happy and comfortable.

Seungmin: sandor Hear me out!!! Somehow the two of them have a lot in common...ok?! I'm not crazy... Seungmin tends to be very perfectionist like sandor, especially when it comes to Sophie's protection. They are also both very professional and always want to improve their skills but never forget, what they already can. And last but not least, both always keep a calm head in stressful or serious situations. (Ok, I realized myself that this doesn't fit 100%... but I couldn't think of anyone better for seungmin).

I.n = biana = Twin where have you been? Biana is the fashion princess of Foxfire. She loves going shopping, putting on make up and giving her less fashoinable friends make overs. Pretty Jeongin coded, don't you think...? She is very confident and charming but always babied by everyone, what annoys her pretty much some times. (like Jeongin... just saying...)They are both very optimistic, cheerful and tend to light up the room.

[multi-fandom-lunatic]

If every main kotlc character and their fanon personality counterparts are drowning and you could only save one from each character (their canon or fanon counterpart) would there be any canonic characters saved

Idk im bored (this sentence is very telling so I shouldn’t even bother with anon but it gives me a false sense of security)

I LOVE THIS QUESTION... also i have an inkling on who its from

sophie: canon. her fanon personality is pulled to both extremes. either she's FAR more independant than portrayed in books or shes FAR more into the romance side of things (no shame there, just not my cup of tea). i dont love canon her, but it beats the fanon

keefe: FANON. its actually a crime that keefe isnt a cringefail-loser-finger-gunning-at-everyone-frog-themed-everything bisexual. just take a look at that mf. aint NO way that fucker doesn't kiss boys (the boys being fitz and tam-_

fitz: fanon. the canon him was SO massacred. it couldve been a chance to show a character with anger issues who isn't a dickhead (not that canon fitz has anger issues...but it would be cool to see a version of fitz that does). although, the fanon version of him outside of tumblr is pretty fucked...read a fic back in good ol' 2022 where he was physically abusive to sophie (i-)

dex: fanon. canon dex isn't explored that much at all. i know he's seen as overrated in the fandom but in canon he's underated, not just because of lack of page time but also lack of development imo. dont get me wrong there IS development but its kind subpar in comparison to other characters. also fanon dex includes the dex who's hopelessly in love with fitz.so.

biana: canon. hard choice because i dislike both. canon biana's character gets explored kinda in nightfall. do i love her personality? no. do i think shes a needed main character? no. do i like that shes there anyway? meh. dont think it'd make much of a difference. fanon biana's personality is often just "the best friend" in fics where she isnt centred lol. its like shes the face kotlc feminism but is also irrelevant.

marella: fanon. ANY DAY fanon her wins. canon her was a highkey bitch to sophie. "you aren't including me in your top secret plans" like girl please why do you want to be put in danger. also, like, the other characters whom she claimed ostracised her werent involved by sophie but rather were involved through their own actions or just being in the wrong place wrong time. canon marella is CONSTANTLY testing to sophie and it weirds me out. fanon her is fun, though sometimes reduced to simply snarky. still, i prefer it.

tam: canon. the fanon version of him is just "emo/dark/sad" without much else. like cmon tam DOES make jokes, he smiles, he laughs, he's capable of happiness (without a love interest MAKING him happy!) which a lot of ppl even on here forget lol. im not even particularly a tam fan but it needs to be said.

linh: canon. similar thing happens to linh and tam. linh gets reduced to "happy/sweet" in almost a complacent way that feels weirdly racist? like its furthering certain stereotypes? people called linh's actions in stellarlune ooc but i never felt that? she's always been headstrong (literally her whole BACKSTORY is her being headstrong) so to reduce her character to simply "nice/agreeing" is very...icky. it also reeks a tad of sexism too lol.

i dont really consider maruca, wylie or stina or anyone else main characters so this is the end of the list for me. thanks for the ask anon (ahem ahem @shadowofcrimsonmist) i had fun with this one lol/

[svtellify]

kotlc: unraveled review [SPOILER WARNING]

keeper of the lost cities 9.5: unraveled by shannon messenger ★★★☆☆ *parts of the review were taken directly from my goodreads review of the book!

“I tried,” he told the empty room, wishing it made him feel like less of a failure.”

see, if you told me a year ago i'd sympathize with alvar and not mind reading about him, i'd assume you were trying to start a fight.

that being said: this wasn't a necessary book for the series. is it going to provide some helpful context going into book 10? sure. definitely. would it have also been better served as part of a post series anthology of short stories (see: keefe short story, fitz short story, tam short pov) that didn't quite fit into the series elsewhere? yeah. was it a cute short novel about my favorite character that expanded on a lot of what i've been waiting to see explored? also yeah.

before i continue, i want to add that i'm not the target audience of this series, not by a long shot. i was ten when i picked up the series in sixth grade, when only the first three books were out and had to suffer the wait for neverseen. i'm twenty one, and will have finished my master's degree before book ten comes out. i'd like to think i've grown up with the series, but i know that also means outgrowing the majority of the fanbase, since this is a kid's series. i hope the kids reading this can still find some value in my words though!

i'd argue that unraveled shoots itself in the foot a bit in terms of the series as a whole. kotlc is best told through sophie's perspective, because it's limited and lets us see the lost cities through the pov of someone else who's also equally new to it. unraveled breaks up that rhythm and lets us see our own world through keefe's eyes, as someone unfamiliar with it. it works, and it doesn't.

what unraveled does best, however, is drive home that while kotlc is told from sophie's perspective, it's very much more than just her story. keefe has equal stake in it, at this point, and it's only inevitable that they'll share custody of the rest of the story because of what's to come next. it's a story about the lost cities, about the change that needs to happen there, even in a species that's effectively immortal. a change that we've slowly witnessed two warring groups attempt to bring about.

(it's rather fitting given current political events, but i digress. kotlc is not a modern day political commentary, and i stand by it. the series took shape in the early 2010s and has meandered its way through the 2020s. it's applicable, but not intentional, if that makes sense.)

i loved that shannon tackled keefe's abuse directly, along with his trust issues and myriad of trauma. it's been building up and needed to be addressed so i'm glad we were able to see that.

it's also evident in unraveled that shannon's ready for something a little more mature (unlike let the sky fall.) writing-wise, and like jjk before it, i'm curious to see what kotlc would've looked like as a YA book with more room to explore it's darker themes. she does a great job with it as a middle grade series, but there's tones throughout unraveled that show better writing, so i look forward to book 10 and whatever her next project will be!

onto the annotations!

i have been waiting for someone to talk about this. and while i'm not like. alvar's number one fan now or anything, i think he was kind of the perfect person to talk about this. he's directly responsible for some of this, starting with trying to recruit keefe on numerous occasions and the role he played in keefe's involvement with the neverseen.

he's also fitz's brother. fitz, who's been a general disappoint at best to cruel at worst when it comes to keefe and his mom and his familial abuse. alvar might not understand all of it, but i'd like to think that he gave keefe a bit of closure on the vacker-keefe front. and on keefe's general guilt.

this is here purely because it hit like a gut punch. it's so simply written but i think we all need to hear it sometimes.

keefe being down bad for sophie is the funniest thing ever actually, but this is written so cutely ;(

a south indian dish name drop in a kotlc was not on my radar. i love it though?

it's a short book, there's not much more i think needs to be mentioned. it's good, nothing mind blowing, and the characters shine when shannon doesn't have to juggle the whole ensemble and then some. it did what it needed to⎯fill in some gaps that the cast expansion got in the way of and draw us back in for book 10. and it worked.

i wasn't particularly looking forward to this or dreading it⎯i've been too busy for either lately, but there's something very special about reading from a series you've grown up with, something so heartwarming about finding magic in a book series that wasn't necessarily written for your age group.

i don't want to make this too long, so i'll just say: i'm looking forward to book 10! i'll be well in the middle of med school secondaries and hopefully interviews by then, but it's a lovely reprieve to anticipate.

3.5 stars.

(also wanted to drop the kotlc playlist here for anyone interested in a series reread. catch me rereading the series when i'm out of the trenches of finals 🫡)

[rinasunny]

The Lavatory scene in Red Eye's final shooting script and the movie

One of my previous posts was about how much the first script draft of Red Eye differed from the final product. The draft discussed in this post is more or less final. This draft has all the changes made after Rachel and Cillian were cast as leads and after the test screenings. But there are still some features which didn't make the cut into the final product. I'm not gonna analyse the whole script here, but shippers' favorite scene - the lavatory scene. Yeah, you can always rely on this scene to bring some juicy stuff.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Okay let's start from the moment Lisa enters the bathroom alone.

Frankly speaking, for now, I prefer the movie version. Especially the line "Okay, get up" instead of "Oh my God..." Wes Craven said in the DVD commentary about this moment:

This was tricky, between making her totally collapse, but not have her totally pathetic. And she very quickly gets herself under control.

Next, there is an interesting description of Rippner:

Also, the message on the mirror was meant to be revealed slightly earlier, but whatever.

I'm not sure about Rippner's lines here, because half of it is barely audible in the film. Also quite ironic that the underlined part is not in the movie at all.

Okay, now really important stuff starts kicking in. Rippner practically spills out the fact that he is ATTRACTED to Lisa right at her face. The script makes it clear, that she now knows this and tries to use his attraction (and his regret) to persuade him to give up on Keefe assassination plan. Funny enough, she almost succeeds until he notices her scar. Personally, I think "You're beautiful..." line (and hair brushing) should have stayed in the final cut. Not only for the sake of the ship, but for the fact that without it Lisa's "You don't have to do this" sounds really naive.

Some of you may argue that this is all relevant for the movie, they just made it more subtle. Well, Movie-Lisa's best guess that Movie-Rippner might be attracted to her is the way Cillian looks at Rachel. On one hand many people point out that they do have chemistry and sexual tension, on the other the movie on its own leaves watchers to wonder whether the characters had any romantic feelings towards each other or not. And I probably stumbled upon a comment on YouTube, which interpreted the "You don't have to do this" line more as "You're so pretty, why do you have to be evil?" (or something along these lines)

Also I think that clarification would make Lisa a more nuanced character (by the fact that she tries to manipulate a villain into giving up on his villainy).

Also, as you may have noticed, the scar was meant to be on her neck, makes sence, given her backstory (He held a knife to my throat). I guess they moved it down just so Rippner wouldn't notice it earlier (though the script also mentions, that Lisa was meant to wear a sweater). I, personally, on the back of my horny mind, think he wasn't looking for scar when he gazed on her breast ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

A little note: Script-Lisa looks away saying "No" while Rachel looks straight into his eyes, but starts trembling instead.

By the way, Rippner wasn't meant to slam and choke her just yet.

I guess he just let her out to wipe out the messege. Here Lisa gives up on conving him.

Only after he finished wiping he starts to choke her. Also, pay CLOSE ATTENTION on what Rippner's lips do here ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Yep, he almost kisses her.

I guess the changes movie made here were for the sake of pacing.

Another important difference: Rippner fixes both their outlooks to be more presentable. Lisa protests a bit.

I guess the movie crew decided they don't need to fix their look that much.

Also, I prefer the movie's "Peachy" instead of just "Good", though both lines are in the movie lol.

On the final note, I guess "Thanks for the quickie" line makes a bit more sence given we have Rippner's crawling lips there ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

So, these were the differences of the lavatory scene between the script and the movie. Hope you had as much shipping excitement as I did.

P.S: The link to the script. If you're a fan I strongly suggest to download it, it may easily become a lost media, like an earlier draft.

[emeraldspiral]

Addendum to this post:

The reason Zim's feelings for Dib go unrequited is that they're looking for validation for different things from different people.

Zim comes from a society that only values superficial things like physical appearance and achievement, (which incidentally, is the exact sort of environment that breeds conditions like NPD). Zim needs someone in his life to think he's intelligent or competent because that's the only thing he thinks gives him value. But he's never had anyone in his life who thought he was anything special, aside from maybe Keef, whose validation means nothing to him because he's nothing special himself as far as Zim is concerned. Only Dib and the Tallests' opinions matter to him because they're the only people he respects, the Tallest purely for their superficial status and Dib for having actual qualities that impress Zim.

With Dib though, he grew up recognized as a Gifted Child. Where people have always had low expectations for Zim, Dib's always had high expectations for himself and placed upon him by his father. Dib doesn't care whether or not Zim thinks he's intelligent because everyone else, including his father, the person who's opinion matters most, already does. No one's ever doubted that he was smart and capable. What they doubt is the legitimacy of what he thinks and what he does, and Zim himself doesn't validate that for him, he's just the key to getting validation from other people. Zim considering him a Worthy Opponent does validate his perception of himself as a hero, but even then, that validation relies on Zim being an object; a one-dimensional narrative prop, rather than someone whose good opinion matters to him.

Dib wants to defeat Zim to impress his dad, Zim wants to defeat Dib to impress Dib.

However, there is a way that Zim could conceivably get Dib to reciprocate his one-sided man-crush. By validating his beliefs himself rather than just being the evidence he needs to get validation from others. If you have Zim believing Dib about ghosts and vampires and stuff, or better yet not believing him but then changing his mind when confronted with evidence, that's going to cause a huge shift in the dynamic. Like, Dib's so desperate for anyone to talk to about this stuff he has to pay his sister to joylessly listen to him ramble on about it, or infodump to random hobos. If Zim actually listened to him with genuine interest, treated him like an authority on the subject, or had actual discussions with him about paranormal science, he would get so addicted to Zim's validation so fast. He'd probably also crash just as quickly from Gifted Kid Burnout. He'd be up all hours of the night doing research or stakeouts, trying to get evidence and learn everything there is to know about every kind of cryptid or apparition or unexplained phenomenon because he wants to maintain the image of being an Expert in Zim's eyes.

[a-random-person-on-the-interent]

CALLING ALL PEOPLE WHO DISLIKE THE LOST CITIES AND THINK THEY'RE SHIT

we need to make like a discord or something to talk about it, or like write essays which I think I'm planning on doing, because the lost cities is shit, I feel very strongly about this as a disabled person, and you might ask why would me being disabled have anything to do with it, EUGENICS and the Talentless and even how disabled people are treated by the narrative. Because didn't Keefe descripe feeling talentless people as being hollow and not quite complete, WHICH IS WHAT DISABLED PEOPLE (or at least people with Autism like myself) HAVE BEEN CALLED FOR YEARS. I really want a charcter to have been born with a disability (ADHD, ASD, EDS, down syndrome, Dyslexia, dysgraphia, ect) or for the series to recognize that being talentless is having a disability or even the series to recongize mental health conditions (PTSD, BPD, Depression Schizoprenia, delusions) like Sophie has all the symptoms for PTSD, and one could argue she's dyslexic with her not being able to read runes. Also back to the eugenics talk, eugenics in history have been useally used on disabled people, like myself. There are no LGBTQ characters which can be fine, I'd like some but it's not a big problem expect... EUGENICS. the elves soiciety is based on Eugenics meaning that if someone was gay or lesbian or aroace, they probably would be scorned if not it being banned to be gay or lesbian. What about trans people? well the lost cities seem to function on that they are perfect the way they're born, and if one is not born perfect (Like the talentless) you are socially exiled. The susicde rates must be massive there, but I doubt anyone will talk about them because they'll be shamed.

Let's not even get into Exile cause that is just Touture, and I'm not kidding solitary confine meant is torture, fintans cell tourture, I'm not saying it isn't effective cause it is. but the elves claim to be morally superior to humans than do that. Memory breaks would also count as tourture as you are breaking someones mind till they are practically dead. And we saw how that effected Aladin. What about the white room tourture they had Vesperia be in for centuries. there politcal system is fucked too, Cause a friendship is just as important as a romantic relationship so if they wanted them to be completey unbiased the councliers shouldn't be allowed to have friends or family, and that doesn't stop the heart from from falling in love with someone and giving them special treatment.

I think anyone with half a brain could tell you that feeding carniverous animals strickly vegan diet is bad, so let's move on to the education system and I'm 90% sure that elves are just lying about how much they helped humans, like I'm 100% sure that Mr. Forkle only thinks he inspired Loki, cause if you know any myths about him you'd know they are not similar at all well maybe aside from the shapeshifting like didn't at one point they say they helped them discover electicity, like eceletricity was ORGINALLY discovered in 600 BCE they at that time were probbaly still living among humans, like I'm sorry but you guys probbaly didn't help with anything and might've actually prolonged the process because you thought you knew better. and y'know what they probbaly haven't even gotten to the center of the earth yet which is 2,9000 KM down, but back to education, it's so heavily bias, that all the other speices that aren't elves are like what the fuck is this, this isn't how it happened, so my best guess is that it's full of misinformation. Y'know what I should make a skit of, "If I was in the lost cities"

[kithj]

i finally finished Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe and whew what a book. probably one of my favorite non-fiction books i've ever read, and the audiobook was excellent.

this book really gives a lot of context and nuance around the case, and i really really enjoyed the "deep dive" into Dolours Price and Brendan Hughes. especially with Dolours Price, because we really get to follow her from the start, first as peaceful student protestor, then her radicalization, and ultimately her disillusionment and trauma following the hunger strikes. both with the Price sisters and Hughes we really get to see the kind of... long-term effects, mentally and physically, of so much trauma and violence. but i never felt that Keefe was unfairly harsh nor did he try to demonize armed resistance; in my opinion, he did seem to have an understanding about why people like Hughes and Price did what they did. he does criticize the loyalists and the British army as well, and even comments on the asymmetry in accountability after the good friday agreement, but overall the book is definitely way more focused on the provisional IRA-- it's definitely not a full look at the troubles, but i think it's a good starting point. it's definitely written for American audiences.

which brings me to my criticisms. about half-way through i started looking up the work of Ed Moloney, who is referenced a lot throughout the book & collaborated with Keefe, sharing resources and interviews, etc. Moloney does not like this book. he alleges that Keefe purposefully omitted primary sources that he himself gave him, that confirmed the presence of informers in Divis Flats as well as confirmed the use of the so-called "mysterious radio." Moloney does consider that this could have been something publishers made him do-- after all, the "good vs evil" / "perfect victim" narrative (which Keefe even acknowledges in the book!) is far more digestible than the messy reality of the time. it's really a shame, because i felt that Keefe had otherwise presented it consistently and with great skill and honesty up until the very end. there's really no need to omit information-- the murder of Jean McConville is unjustifiable, regardless. Moloney then goes on to call into question Keefe's history as a policy advisor within the US Office of the Secretary of Defense-- which was not disclosed with Moloney while they were working together, and seems to be purposefully obfuscated in Keefe's author/journalist profile. which leads Moloney to believe the omission was intentional and Keefe's own personal decision.

there's also the matter of the way Keefe presents this book. he calls it "narrative non-fiction" rather than history or true crime. i think he does this solely so he can get around the fact that this book has NO numbered footnotes. the way the sources are compiled for this book is criminal, and it makes a lot of the information appear as if it's all coming directly from Keefe. the reality is that a lot of this information is already very well-known and has been thoroughly investigated & covered by Irish journalists like Moloney, and it's their work that Keefe is presenting to his American audience. i didn't realize this until i looked up Moloney's articles, because i was listening to the audiobook (which also doesn't even include any kind of sourcing at the end, it's only in the print copies.)

ultimately, i did really enjoy this book. i do think it's incredibly well-researched and does a great job exploring the aftermath of colonial violence and trauma and how even decades and generations later it is still carried on in the people's memory. also some excellent commentary from those involved in the Boston Tapes; there's a particular line towards the end from Anthony McIntyre that i keep thinking about:

How will the truth of what really happened during the Troubles ever come out, he asked, if the authorities file murder charges against anyone who has the nerve to talk about it? ‘I would describe the PSNI stance as one of prosecuting truth, rather than procuring truth,’ he said in an interview.

all that to say if you read this i would take Keefe's final conclusions with a grain of salt. also definitely read Moloney's article alongside this book. i don't necessarily believe one over the other, since the argument could be made that Moloney is just trying to protect those involved. but i do think it's important to question Keefe's choices in how he presented this information. we're never going to know the truth-- just like Keefe calls into question the memories and testimonies of those involved, we should also question him, and why he's telling us this story, and why he's telling it in this way.

[myfairkatiecat]

nightfall was crazy, but I'm also kind of confused??? It went by sooo fast I was like WHAT? WAIT, WHAT? WAIT WAIT WAIT-

Love the fact that they went on with keefes whole "I'm not worth it, but you are, so I'm going to take over decisions we need to make (as a team) and screw them over so that they cause harm to me and not you!" Kinda vibe, honestly thought that after he came back from the neverseen in lodestar they were just going to forget about it, yk??

Only thing I really didn't like is that like...everyone has a slight distrust to keefe (at least in the start, till he apologized ) but Sophie, the person who was (in my opinion) most affected by his 'betrayal' never once had a doubt???? Like, if someone betrayed me, right? Yk they're my friend whatever whatever, ID STILL HAVE SOME KIND OF LIKE ISSUES WITH THEM???

I feel like her distrusting keefe and then slowly learning to trust him would have made the book MUUUCH better!!

Also, I'm still not getting where the Fitz discourse is coming from, like, his sibling just betrayed him, fell unconscious and WOKE UP WITH NO MEMORY OF ANYTHING?? I can see where the anger issues come from

Holy shit this was long, sorry!

-- @localburntoutkid

Had a blast reading this!

You’re so right about Keefe. That definitely doesn’t get dropped after lodestar, or even nightfall—it’s one of his character’s main flaws, and while it does shift and evolve as the series moves on, it’s kind of there, you know? And I’m really hoping it resolves in some way by the end of the series, because his arc is just… so interesting to me. Because it is NOT arc-shaped. At all.

I get what you mean about Sophie being the only one who doesn’t distrust Keefe when he comes back. I really like that too acknowledge that it’s a Sophie-specific thing, though! Too many people forget that this is a third person limited story told by an unreliable narrator, and act like Shannon Messenger herself is telling us Keefe deserves to be fully trusted. Sophie Foster decides, at the end of Neverseen, not to hate him, and Lodestar is where she has her moments of doubt and distrust, but even in Lodestar, she always believes in Keefe’s good intentions. There’s even a scene where she says something like “Yes, Keefe’s plan is horrible and I hate it, but his heart is in the right place. I have to believe that.” The part about keefe’s plan is paraphrased, but she did say she needs to believe his heart was in the right place, in that wording, and it’s fascinating to me. She’s very attatched to Keefe (obviously) and I think it’s mostly for her own sanity that she chooses over and over to believe that there’s something right about what he’s doing, because letting him go sounds excruciating, even by his own fault.

I actually have no issue with this being Sophie’s perspective, and I actually find it interesting especially in the context of sokeefe, but I wish we got to see this portion through another character’s eyes. For example, Fitz. Someone who does distrust him afterwards, and rightfully so.

As far as Fitz discourse goes, that stuff stemmed less from nightfall and more from flashback and legacy. I don’t hate Fitz in either of those books, but you’ll probably notice the moments that made people kind of go nuts about hating him and ran away with his character (personally, I think Fitz is fully understandable in both books, but don’t fully condone the way he acts in a few scenes, particularly in legacy. I’ll explain later after you’ve read it)

Don’t apologize for length, I’m literally Katie, have you met me? Everything I write is longer than I intend

I’m glad you’re having fun with the KOTLC series. Keep me updated!!!

[the-way-astray]

thinking thoughts about gay fitz. how his arc has been gearing for him to step away from his family name, reputation, or legacy. how he has all those expectations on him and may mold himself to fit them rather than trust himself. etc etc.

also one more thing i thought of… (unraveled spoilers ahead!!) why the fuck didn’t keefe ask alvar about the vacker legacy even though it has been set up as a mediumish to largely important plot thread??

i think shannon needs to hire one fan/stan and one non-fan of each of her characters as a committee to make her books theeee best that they can be. lol.

good night!! it is 11pm. if it isn’t for you, have a great day ahead!!

hi, anon! those are certainly some thoughts you have there.

keefe didn't ask alvar about that because sophie already asked alvar about it in legacy. he said the troll hive was the extent of the research alvar himself had conducted, but that he suspected that his family had other buried secrets because of the sheer amount of power they held (but that he didn't actually know anything else for certain). so alvar wouldn't know anything more. and honestly? i don't think shannon will continue with the vacker legacy plot thread. it's wrapped up pretty nicely as it is right now, and revisiting it would take away precious space that could be allocated to closing plot threads that are actually still open. so, while i personally was not satisfied with the vacker legacy as a plot thread and would prefer shannon expanded upon it and gave us something more interesting, i also think that it's just not a priority anymore. it's been wrapped up. in a satisfying way? absolutely not. but it's been wrapped up nonetheless. so. that's a thing.

as for gay fitz, i agree!!!! i've talked about it briefly in this post where i mention several ways i would change kotlc, and one of those is that i would make fitz end up with dex because it would make his arc of stepping away from his family name so much more . . . cemented. (i also said in that post that my version of kotlc would have the elves not being queerphobic but unraveled shattered that so. we ignore that part i guess.) i think if he was gay in the (now canonically homophobic) lost cities, it would go a long way in making his arc about matchmaking and generally stepping away from being the perfect vacker and liking being a vacker and whatnot come full circle.

i personally don't think shannon's going to do it. and i also don't actually want her to do it. between the way fitz is dogpiled on by pretty much every non-tumblr fandom and the disastrous reception the three (3) mentions of gay people in unraveled received, i can't imagine this can go any way that could be considered good if it was canon. i talked about this same exact thing in a similar post about poc vackers a while ago, where i basically said the same thing (except it was about race instead of sexuality).

but, yeah, the headcanon absolutely slaps hard. fanon-wise, i'm personally more partial to keefitz, but i think in canon fedex is the superior ship. it's just better for both their arcs. as for fitz growing to realize that he doesn't have to mold himself to fit the overbearing vacker reputation, i think it would be so cool if he realized that because of a conversation with dex. dex is a noble, now, after all. there could be some connection there about how dex maybe feels pressure because of that but he's still not willing to sacrifice what he believes in or something idk.

my toxic trait is that i genuinely believe i could fix keefe. i could fix him . . . i could make him such a good character . . . shannon should give him to me. and yeah. she needs to do that with all the characters. at this point only stan-hater pairs could fix these guys . . .

[horaitos]

death, she is cunning and clever as hell (and she’ll eat you alive)

in which: tam deals with the fallout of a choice.

Tam didn’t know how long he was supposed to sit here.

Wraith had walked him in, led him to the bench he was sitting on, and told him it would just be a few minutes. “We just need to figure everything out” and “we need to let everyone recover” and “we’ll be with you shortly.”

Tam didn’t know how long a few minutes was in the Collective’s eyes.

All he knew was that he hated this room.

He hated being alone, more accurately. He hated not having anyone to bounce off of. He’d always had someone. First it had been Linh, his sister, the only person he’d ever truly trusted for the vast majority of his life. Then he’d somehow fallen into Sophie Foster’s dysfunctional group of outcasts and mentally ill teenagers trying to save the world. He’d been in on all their meetings, adding a dry piece of commentary or a pragmatic piece of advice, and over time he found himself genuinely caring about these people. He found himself a family.

He didn’t know if he even had friends now.

He remembered Linh’s tight-lipped frown and shell-shocked eyes. Rayni’s slitted gaze, confused tears wetting her cheekbones. Keefe’s collapse to the ground.

Sure, she had been a villain. But she had also been a living, breathing person.

Nobody in their group had premediated, planned, schemed, with the intent to kill a living person.

Nobody until now.

Why had he done it? The answer that came to his head first: he was tired. He was tired of Linh’s retreat into a stiffer, calculating version of her old self. He was tired of Sophie running herself ragged every day, manipulated by people who said they were trying to help her. He was tired of Fitz and Biana constantly grieving over a brother that hadn’t even loved them in the first place. He was tired of innocents getting dragged into this twisted plot.

But another part of him, maybe a more honest part, told him he did it because he was angry and scared.

He was angry at the pain inflicted on him by Gisela.

He was scared of what might happen to his sister. And by proxy, what might happen to him, because he couldn’t live without his sister.

So, honestly?

It was because he was selfish.

He really hadn’t changed since Exillium.

A light knock at the door sounded and before Tam could answer, it cracked open and Sophie’s head poked into the room.

She looked awful. Her dark circles, which were always rough, looked like they had been pummeled and bruised for hours. Her olive skin was drenched in sweat. The dark roots of her dyed blond hair even seemed more pronounced.

She opened her mouth, then closed it, choosing to simply stand there like a gawking observer.

If it were any other time, Tam would make a dry comment about her lack of words. But he couldn’t do that now - he wasn’t sure if he would ever be able to do that again. Besides, Sophie would see right through him. His mask of aloofness was pretty much shattered.

Instead of saying anything, she walked over and sat on the bench next to him.

“Everyone’s fine,” she assured him. “Linh’s good. She seemed to recover quickly.”

Tam didn’t know if the desperation had shown on his face that much or if she simply knew him that well by now, but either way he was grateful. “Rayni?”

“Livvy’s treating her right now. I think she’s in shock or something.”

“…Keefe?”

Sophie’s silence was enough of an answer, and Tam slumped forward, burying his face in his hand and trying to stop the cowardly tears from appearing. He couldn’t cry. Not now.

A soft hand was laid on his shoulder, and he looked up to see Sophie with an impossibly sympathetic look in her brown eyes.

And Tam broke.

The tears weren’t soft. They were angry and jagged and loud.

Sophie wrapped her arm around him and allowed him to stain her tunic, gently rubbing her hand along his shoulder and neck.

He sniffed and looked up at her. “Why are you comforting me?”

She sighed. “Tam, how often have I cried? How often have I fallen apart? How often have I been held in this exact same way?”

“This is..”

“Exactly the same,” she interrupted. “And I’m going to help you through this. Because that’s what we do. We help each other.”

We.

There was still a we.

Sophie gripped his hand, keeping the other wrapped around his shoulders.

Tam knew this wasn’t the end of his trouble. Soon, he would be confronted by the Collective, and then maybe the Council, and then he would have to somehow talk to his friends. He wasn’t going back to any semblance of normal after this.

But for now, he let her stay.