#but who knows they might since S5 is a BIG deal

[thecelestialsyzygy]

Ok but if this is them they should come back when promo for S5 starts

so I think this is the official tumblr of stranger things and the Duffers

Someone probably already spotted this I think (?) but well... just in case... someone sent to them a Mike x El art piece as a submission and this was in the tags...

so it's not????? 🤔

[liliaeth]

I was just thinking about something that keeps returning in fandom...

People acting as if Scott somehow thinks in black and white, while Stiles to them thinks in shades of grey, which they translate to 'is willing to kill'. And it's just such absolute nonsense.

A big part of the issue here that I've noticed, is something fandom often loves to ignore. Namely that from s1 on, Scott was most often the one being attacked, the one forced to deal with life or death choices. While Stiles, still got to keep seeing death as something abstract, something that happened, but wasn't a decision that he personally had to make. Stiles wasn't forced to resist the urge to kill, he didn't have some force in his head try to make him kill people, and in the early seasons, he was a foil for Scott. Someone who didn't have to face the choice between life and death. For Stiles that responsibility did not come until s3b.

Scott didn't have that privilege. Even as early on as s1, when Peter tried to control him, he was forced to feel what it would be like to maul and possibly kill someone he cared about. It might have been just a dream, but all too soon he had to find out it was a dream based on reality. the reality where Peter tried to make him kill someone. And it took all of Scott's will power to resist doing so.

And then not long after, Peter forced Scott's darkest instincts to come up, making him actually want to kill his friends. A experience that clearly horrified Scott. Because he'd already had that feeling in the first two episodes of the show, where his instincts made him go after Stiles, his best friend.

So when Peter sent Derek after Jackson, for Scott, that wasn't some abstract notion, it was reality.

It wasn't just people trying to kill him, and the fear of that, but the fear that he himself might kill others. Which is why in s5 to him, the worst thing to happen to Liam would be for him to have to live with having killed Scott. Not for Scott's sake, but for Liam's...

For Scott, killing isn't some black and white bullshit, it's real, it's a way of ending any and all other possibilities for a person.

When Scott refuses to kill, it's not because he believes in black and white, or good and evil, it's because he doesn't.

Because he knows that just because someone is an asshole, or does bad things, that doesn't mean they're evil, that doesn't mean they deserve to die. Because he believes in shades of grey. because Killing and Death are not just funny abstract threats, or exaggerations, it's something real, and it's not a decision that should be taken lightly.

Stiles can argue for killing, since he's never expected to be the one to do the deed. He can ask Scott to "consider letting [Derek] die," or to "kill Jackson, problem solved," because he's not the one who has to bear the responsibility.

Now admittedly, it's not that Stiles had no idea of how dark things really were, not after the end of s1. he'd seen dead people, Lydia’s mauled body made it more than real. His willingness to consider killing was more from powerlessness…he didn’t see many options to stop the killers without killing them. After all, in S1 his first instinct was to have Derek arrested and it didn’t work, so he suggests murder and killing, but still never has to actually make the choice to commit the killing himself

Not until s3b, and even then Stiles choice was 'lock himself up' or let the Nogitsune kill. The same choice Scott already had to make in s1.

Fandom likes to pretend Stiles could easily kill the bad guys, when the reality of the show is that when Stiles did accidentally kill, in s5, it devastated him. Because just like Scott, he came to realize that killing is final, killing is destructive, and doing so should never be a first solution.

Both Scott and Stiles had to make these choices, both of them came to the same conclusion, and that's something fandom loves trying to ignore.

[mayabruhbruh]

What do you think of the possibility of Will and Chance happening? I feel like it would be really poor writing tbh but I feel like they will give Will a different love interest because they’ll try to make all of the audience „happy“ But that would just truly not align with the writing so far I feel like.

Love your analyses btw<3

THANK YOUU! That's so kind :) And great ask! This is definitely a topic that the ST fandom needs to discuss.

The default question when people have little to no hope in Byler is, well, who the hell is Will going to end up with? Because it’s become increasingly evident that they’re trying to set him up for a romance. The “im not gonna fall in love”, the “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls”, even the gif shown above. It all can be interpreted to mean that Will is going to find his person soon.

So... to be completely honest, I had no idea who Chance was until this ask popped up and I had to look him up💀. It’s been a while since I’ve been on here, so I’m a little rusty on the deep lore lmao. So, in the off chance that others might also be confused, here’s a (rare) gif of him I found.

I think that’s him with the Hawkins cap on the right. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m not sure where the rumors that this guy was going to become a bigger part of the show came from, but that seems highly unlikely to me. I feel like they would have either hinted at it in the fourth season (like how they’re giving Patrick here quite a sizeable role so that he’ll be memorable to us later when he gets vecnafied) or they would have announced him as a more prominent character already like how they did for s5 with Holly, that one new kid character, and also how they did Amybeth for s4. Idk, maybe it’s unreasonable to think they would have to do that, but it feels quite too out-of-the-blue. Especially for a character that would take on the role of becoming our central character’s love interest, which is a BIG DEAL. Especially if it’s queer lol.

Secondly, I firmly believe that it would be a disservice to Will’s own desires to meet someone new.

Will said this explicitly in the van scene, and as of now, we’re still under the impression that Mike is his person. Forget about Mike’s issues and feelings for a second, and think about what Will is saying here. He feels like a mistake for being different, but Mike makes him feel like he’s not a mistake at all, that he’s better for being different. Mike gives him courage to fight on. Fuck. Tbh, it makes me wonder how long he’d felt this way. As a byler, you might be inclined to think his feelings have been on for forever, but narratively, he could have easily just realized his own feelings very recently, most likely sometime between season 3 and 4. It doesn’t mean the feelings weren’t there before, but realistically neither Will nor the general audience were aware of it before now.

Moving on.

Has anyone heard of the rule of Chekhov’s gun? It’s an incredibly clever and widely-used tool in screenwriting and storytelling in general that helps to clue the watchers in for what’s to come next.

Think of Lucas’ wrist rocket in season 1. When they introduced it as a flimsy-looking, no-good weapon that he’d put too much pride in at first, it gives us a good laugh and we move on. But really, it very meticulously set us up to subconsciously anticipate to see it again later. That’s what Chekhov’s gun is all about. Set-ups, foreshadowing, hidden treasures.

Another great example would be the painting reveal of s4. Obviously, after finding out that Will was painting something, bylers immediately figured it was for Mike and BEGGED and HOPED and PLEADED that we’d be able to finally see it, but to the general audience it was just another something that they’d have to pick apart and realize was actually of importance as the season progressed. (It’s also a good way of showing that the writers are fully capable of engrossing the entire fan base and general audience in his and Mike’s story. Just knowing Will had painted something and that it was for Mike created this sense of PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IT IS AND WJATS GOING ON and whatnot that watchers are simply so susceptible to it’s insane.)

Okay, back to the van scene. Will’s confession.

Now, I’m not saying that the writers intentionally used this foreshadowing tool for us to find and understand immediately. There are plenty, plenty of instances where writers use Chekhov’s gun principle and it flies over peoples heads purposefully. What I’m trying to say is that, thematically and narratively, they would never have introduced Wills feelings for Mike if not for it to have importance to the story, or for nothing to happen with it at all. It’s a set up. And a maddeningly good one, at that. Because queer stories already do tend to fly over people’s heads, and also because there’s the added drama between Mike and Eleven that makes it seem quite impossible for any of these feelings to be addressed in the midst of such emotional chaos. But whatever. I think I’m rambling.

Basically, whether they end up together or not, whether Mike reciprocates these feelings, Will is forever established to be in love with Mike. The confession was simply too grand and emotional and earnest for him to just switch up abruptly next season when he meets someone new that he might have a better chance with. Even if there were to be a whole new arc for him where he learns to let go of Mike or something crappy like that, it would be terrible writing on their end and poor use of a well-set-up Chekhov’s gun reference. It would be like introducing the gun in the display case in scene one, then two scenes later just tucking it away into a storage closet for the remainder of the story. Like… what?

And plus, it’s HIGHLY unlikely that Will would end up with that sort of storyline next season when he’s literally WITH Mike for presumably a majority of the time (based on the set pics so far).

So that’s my debunking of the Chance rumors :) and I didn’t even get to mention how incompatible they’d be just naturally as characters. Chance, a Jason-following jock that hates Dungeons and Dragons, fantasy and nerdy things, and willingly assisted in beating up the Hellfire Club when they were trying to find Eddie. What about that at all screams Will’s type? And if you’re thinking “unconventional couple enemies to lovers”, just don’t. This isn’t a rom-com, especially for a queer plot line lol. I think it’s safe to say there’s no “chance”😉 that they will ever happen. And either way, it’d be a bummer if they did. Cus it would just be Will defeatedly settling for someone that isn’t Mike.

UGH! It makes me sad that the one thing that is firmly being teased by the writers (Will’s love playing a major role in the plot to come) is constantly being questioned and framed as different questions. “Will Mike reciprocate?” “Does this mean Mike and Eleven break up?” “Who will end up with who?” SHHH Frankly, to me this is already a win. It’s become obvious that Will having feelings for him will come up again soon, and the rest of the evidence that accounts for Mike’s end already speaks for itself, so I prefer to just sit back and watch it all unfold.

Again, thanks so much for the ask!! This was so fun to dissect and feel free to keep sending questions into my inbox. It might take me a second to post my response but I’m determined to get through all of them. Love you guys!! <3

[lordystrange]

10 best byler proofs by me

10. The cast, especially David (who knows the ending) and Finn (who might know something), are always so happy talking about Byler. They wouldn’t be if Will ended up dying alone as a sad gay. Also no one likes milkvan except maybe Millie unless she’s acting… Caleb even said ”Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Milkvan’s”.

9. Mike has been queercoded throughout the whole series. Especially with queer colors, he spent s4 dressed as a gay pride flag. Also bi and pan colors are associated with him. Also Ted’s ”our son with a girl?” and everything Eddie said about forced conformity etc

8. Byler parallelling other romantic ships like Jancy, Jopper and Lumax. I’m not listing examples because there are SO MANY! (Also Milkvan parallelling all the platonic/dead ships)

7. Mileven being bones. We have nothing that shows their actual, deep love they’re ”supposed to have”. We don’t know what Mike loves about El and what El loves about Mike. We don’t know what makes them a compatible match romantically. We only know things that don’t make them compatible: El feeling the need to lie to Mike, Mike feeling embarrassed of his nerdy self with El, El feeling unloved by Mike, Mike feeling inferior to El…

6. The desert scenes. The triple take ofc, but also the car roof top convo with Will (jancy parallell). Will is talking about how it’s scary to say how you really feel because what if they don’t like the truth. And Mike NODS. If the truth was that he loved El exactly like El wanted, El would like that truth. So what is the truth Mike is worried that El doesn’t like…?

5. Mike’s monologue. He had to be pushed by Will to open his mouth. He lied about him loving her at first sight. He copied the t-shirt part from Eddie. He kept saying she’s his superhero which El doesn’t wanna be. He didn’t include anything personal about El and their relationship after the t-shirt thing… Also El didn’t seem to like what she heard and their love didn’t save the world. And they didn’t even talk after it. And while filming it they didn’t focus on just the couple (like they did with byler in s2 shed scene) and they let Finn improvise as if it wasn’t that important (as important as the van scene…)

4. Mike would be so poorly written if he wasn’t into Will and I don’t think the Duffers would just ignore his character. Also all the lip glances and heart eyes wouldn’t make sense.

3. Byler/Milkvan contrast. When Will was gone and they found his ”body”, Mike heard Will breathing in a radio channel and believed he was alive. He didn’t rest for a second, he did everything he could to find him. When he thought El was dead, he didn’t go looking for her, even tho a couple times he actually saw her. Also in s3 when Milkvan had a fight, Max said Mike will be crawling back to her begging for forgiveness in no time. Instead Mike laid on a sofa and ate and complained. When Byler had a fight… well we all know what Mike did then.

2. Mike and Will’s relationship has always been different from other friendships. They’ve said it themselves (”pls don’t tell the others, they wouldn’t understand”, ”Hawkins is not the same without you”, ”you make her me feel better for being different”). Also their scenes together have always been a big deal (van scene took an entire day to film, crazy together was written before s1 was even filmed) and they are shot in a really romantic way (music, lighting…)

1. In the beginning of s3, Will said to Joyce that he’s not gonna fall in love. That made his arc about romance. We know now that he already fell in love, but he doesn’t believe it’s requited. If s5 goes from ”i don’t think he loves me back” to ”he doesn’t love me back” we get literally nowhere and the entire storyline (since s1) would be useless and waste of time and money. They wouldn’t make Will suffer 4 seasons and then suffer some more. So believe me when I say it goes ”I don’t think he loves me back” to ”He does love me back!”

I wish you all a very merry byler endgame in s5! 💚

[mlbigbang]

2023 General Fic Rec List

It’s the end of the year which means it’s finally time for the ML Big Bang’s yearly fic rec lists! We’re really excited to bring you our contributors’ favourite fics started this year to supply you with plenty of reading material while you’re waiting for the Big Bang fics’ publication in January.

drowning (in plain sight) by @buggachat

Everybody had expected Monarch's defeat to be a moment of triumph. Nobody had expected Gabriel Agreste, unmasked and mind frayed from continual abuse of the miraculous, crying out to all who would listen and making Paris certain of one thing: His son, Adrien Agreste, is one of his sentimonsters. And now he's missing. Nobody can find him— not even the superheroes, and not even his closest friends. But Marinette, Nino, and Alya aren't ones to give up so easily. They'll find him, no matter what it takes. (But, geez, would it kill Chat Noir to lend a hand?)

I think most of the fandom already read this fic, but if you haven't, you should give it a try! The angst is balanced by how deeply Adrien's friends (including Plagg and Felix) care for him, and the reunion at the end is so touching.

all of your flaws and all of my flaws (are laid out one by one) by @coffeebanana

Ladybug and Marinette have both been acting strangely since Monarch's defeat, and Chat Noir would give anything to know why—to be able to help them. He just…didn't expect his answers to come when Ladybug drags him to his father's statue in the middle of the night along with a bag full of spray paint.

An incredibly cathartic scene set after the Season 5 finale that is a perfect mix of angst and hurt and comfort! All the emotions are so raw.

Dreaming Wide Awake by @uptoolateart

Gabriel died a hero. He sacrificed himself in the final battle against Monarch. Or so Adrien's been told. At least he has his mother there to help him through the grief. So what is this niggling feeling that this isn't how the story was meant to go? And why does he keep having flashes of another world that lies just beneath their own?

A fantastic follow-up to the Season 5 finale in which Adrien is dealing with the loss of his father, and his relationship with Marinette, in a reality that's not quite right. Incredibly emotional and moving.

All That Glitters by @trishacollins

After - After the dust settles, and things feel a little bit more...permanent. Nathalie thinks back on her mistakes. With Felix as close at hand as he is, she thinks one of them might be fixable.

Every fic should be a Sentibug fic, and that's why I rec this. I love that it runs with the finale of S5 and addresses various characters' feelings about senti stuff, which is the real big question hanging over the end of the season. Well, one of them :)

The moment I knew (I’d no choice but to love you) by @bbutterflies

“He’s dating me,” Nino said, taking Adrien’s hand in his own. Adrien could only stare back at him in shock. “How dare you all force him to come out?” Nino continued, glaring at the reporters. “That was disgusting.” He pulled Adrien over to the car, guided him in, and shut the door behind them. In the relative quiet and privacy of the backseat, Adrien finally processed what had just happened. “So… when were you going to tell me we were dating?”

It's fake dating, but with Adrino!! What's not to like?

The Parable of the Caller by nemali

A week after Hawk Moth’s identity has been revealed, Adrien finds himself with nowhere to go, nothing he can do, and worst of all, strange gaps in his memory he can’t explain. In a stroke of luck, he stumbles upon a burner phone filled with voicemails from one of the Saviors of Paris: Chat Noir himself, who disappeared following Hawk Moth’s arrest. But with each new voicemail Adrien listens to, he’s forced to confront the fact that there might be some kind of connection between himself and Chat Noir — and discovering it might leave him more broken than before.

It's subversion of so much. Adrien is the ex-Guardian. Adrien has lost his memories. There's been no reveal. He has no idea what this mysterious series of voicemails from Chat Noir means. A+++ read.

A Masked Game by @mysticraven20

For almost ten years Paris has been peaceful. No villains. No heroes. No hate. But, as always, peace never lasts forever and as a new threat takes over the city of love, there’s a change in the game where this time death is permanent. Adrien has been living full of hope after the worst years of his life. He’s free. He’s settled. But most importantly, he’s in love. After years of trying to find his calling everything came together the day he married his wife, or so he thought. Marinette still craved the companionship of her partner. It had been a decade since she’d seen him; the dull ache in her heart constantly asking what had happened to him. If only she had the opportunity to speak to him one more time. The chance for a reconnection appears when Paris’ heroes are needed again and as feelings begin to resurface so does the hate, love and lies. Ladybug and Chat Noir will need to find a new dynamic to make this work, saving not only their friends but also themselves, leaving Adrien and Marinette to risk everything in a need to survive.

Whodunit, murder mystery MLB fic from a great author exploring a new genre/style. Not just exploring, succeeding. Acing it. Wonderful story. As each chapter dropped, it really felt like the entire fandom was racing to read it first. Everyone was hooked. You should get hooked, too!

[addictedtostorytelling]

Hi! I love your meta and how beautifully you write about GSR, I would like to know what you think about this, do you think Grissom and Sara would have been good parents? Why do you think the show didn’t allowed them to have a geek baby?

hi, anon!

thank you for your kind words!

i have got a big, ol' meta that covers my thoughts on potential gsr parenthood here, if you're interested.

i also have another big, ol' meta that specifically covers my thoughts on how they would have reacted to experiencing an unplanned pregnancy during their "secret dating" phase in s5-s6 here, if you're interested in that one, as well.

the tl;dr version is that while i think grissom and sara would be kickass parents were that particular life choice one they ever decided to make together, i also don't think they would necessarily ever be likely to make that particular life choice together, just given their respective characters and backgrounds.

grissom is—prior to his retirement—highly career-driven, meaning he might not want to put his focus on parenthood rather than work. he likewise has some pretty sizeable hang-ups regarding his own capacity to nurture and be unselfish, his age, his social deficits, etc., all of which might cause him to question his potential fitness as a father.

there's a line from another show i love from a character facing down the prospect of first-time fatherhood that i can absolutely see grissom saying (in so many words): "if, for nine months, you're hearing how this is gonna change your life, and ‘you've never loved anything like this’ and ‘my god, the love!’ and ‘nothing is gonna be important anymore’—it just never felt to me like i was someone who had the capacity for those feelings. plus, you know, i-i like what's important to me. i want it to stay important. i wanna be able to do it well."

meanwhile, sara has her own considerable hang-ups regarding how she was raised, her family and personal history of mental illness, her social deficits, etc. that might cause her to feel similarly unequipped for motherhood. she is also in her twenties and thirties—i.e., prime childbearing years—very career-minded, like grissom, so she might not be inclined to step away (even temporarily) to have a kid.

maybe if grissom and sara were to experience an unplanned pregnancy at some point, they would (under very specific circumstances) consider the possibility of having a child. ditto for maybe a one-in-a-million type scenario where they encountered a kid in the system who needed fostering or adopting.

however, i think nine times out of ten, they'd opt not to have a kid—and especially not if "nature never came to bear" or if one was never put directly into their paths.

that said, since i personally find the idea of them as parents very intriguing—the issue is one that pushes a lot of fun character buttons for both of them, butting up against their hopes and fears and senses of self in some very complicated and interesting ways—i have written a big, ol' geek!baby fic, where they find themselves dealing with an unplanned pregnancy in an au version of s8.

i call it the happy accidentsverse, and if you're interested, you can read that fic series here.

as for the issue of why the show never pursued a "grissom and sara have a kid" storyline in canon, i think there are probably multiple reasons why they didn't.

more discussion after the "keep reading," if you're interested.

__

to my mind, probably the biggest reason why we never saw a "grissom and sara have a kid" storyline in canon is that, particularly in the earlier seasons of the show, the showrunners tried not to focus too much on the characters' home lives.

though they would show the occasional "off the clock" scene here or there or every once in a while toss in some kind of love interest- or family-centric story beat, anthony zuiker and co. wanted the majority of the show's focus to be on the job—on the cases the csis investigated, the goings-on at the lab and in the field, the team's interactions with each other as colleagues, the team's interactions with other law enforcement professionals and people they met in connection to their cases, in the politics of the department, etc.

they were much stricter about this policy even than other procedurals of the time.

that's why we saw so little of grissom and sara's romantic relationship actually play out on screen—because tptb never intended to offer us anything more than just a small window into their personal lives outside of their careers.

and while of course grissom and sara having a kid (whether through sara getting pregnant or them deciding to foster and/or adopt) would definitely affect their working lives and could allow for some interesting storylines centered around the lab and in the field—for example, how might sara deal with the physical and emotional requirements of her incredibly demanding job while pregnant?, how might grissom and sara have to change their workaholic habits if they were to try to become foster or adoptive parents?, how might having a kid in the mix affect both grissom and sara's willingness to face the dangers inherent in their profession?, would becoming parents change the way they responded to certain cases?, etc.—that kind of storyline, just by its nature, would also probably require the show to spend more time at home with grissom and sara than the showrunners and writers ever really intended to.

narratively speaking, catherine having a school-aged kid to start out the show is one thing, while grissom and sara having a newborn or a brand new foster kid and becoming first-time parents would be something else entirely.

in catherine's case, her being a mom to an older kid from the get-go is a much more lowkey deal, not only because a kid at that age can mostly exist in an off-screen capacity except for in episodes where her presence is plot-relevant but also because it's an already-established fact.

catherine is a mother—and an experienced mother, at that—from the very first time we meet her; it's part of both her personal and professional identities from day #1. the baseline is there. there are no questions about it. no big blanks to fill in. she's already made the life-changing decisions. she's already entrenched in that role.

the same would not be true if grissom and sara were to have a kid.

because they were "first timers" (and especially because they had seemingly never aspired to parenthood previously), the show would have to answer questions with them—depict grissom and sara making the huge, life-altering decisions; reckoning with big emotions; figuring stuff out; working through their fears and hang-ups; adjusting to a monumental change in their lives; drawing together in new ways; changing and developing as characters and as a couple; establishing new patterns; etc.

the groundwork would need to be laid where the audience could see it being laid in real time, you know?

and laying that groundwork would require showing lots of private conversations between grissom and sara, trips to the ob's office or talks with the social worker, painting the nursery or putting up a swing set, making childcare arrangements, changing their lifestyle, etc.

my sense is that tptb never really wanted to go there.

that much focus on grissom and sara's home life would have been too distracting—too much of a serialized personal storyline that required attention in every episode, regardless of the "case of the day"—for their tastes.

now.

in theory, the "keep the focus on the job, not the home" rule is one tptb could have considered breaking, had they really wanted to.

after all, it was just a production choice, not actually any kind of hard and fast rule, so if they'd decided they wanted to go the "grissom and sara have a kid" route, they could have done so.

there's always the old flannery o'connor maxim: "it's always wrong of course to say that you can't do this or you can't do that in fiction. you can do anything you can get away with, but nobody has ever gotten away with much."

however, another reason why i think they never chose to go the geek!baby route, beyond the "it goes against our sense of what our show is actually about" thing, is that, frankly, within the universe of the show itself, the timing for grissom and sara was never right.

grissom and sara don't even get together as a committed couple until s5/s6, so, barring a major deviation from what is now canon, they likely could not have had a child at any point prior to 2005/2006, just to start out with.

then their relationship remains a secret until the end of s7/beginning of s8, meaning that between 2006-2007, they're definitely not looking to have a kid and probably would be pretty averse to having one even were they to experience an unplanned pregnancy, just given the potential fallout where their jobs are concerned.

they would have to "come out" as a couple, and one or both of them might end up getting fired over it.

fast forward, and between s8 and s9, sara experiences a mental health crisis that eventually culminates with her moving away from vegas for the better part of two years from 2008 to 2009 while grissom remains behind—and by the time she's stable and moves back to vegas circa 2009/2010, grissom is then living abroad, and they're only seeing each other once a month via transatlantic commute.

back in the day, when sara first turned up in s10, i know there was some internet scuttlebutt that maybe at some point it would be revealed that in-between the events of episode 09x10 "one to go" (when last we'd seen them) and episode 10x01 "family affair" (when sara returns to vegas to "temp"), grissom and sara had had a "secret honeymoon baby."

however, such a revelation was never made—timeline-wise, it would have been a tight fit anyhow, as, within the universe of the show, episode 09x10 "one to go" takes place in january '09 and episode 10x01 "family affair" takes place in september '09—and neither did grissom and sara ever have a kid at any subsequent point.

with sara living in the states and grissom not, the likelihood that they would ever decide to expand their family steadily diminished as s10, s11, and s12 rolled on, both because they were getting older and because their marriage eventually ended up on the rocks.

cue the whole divorce debacle of s13, a few solid years of misery and loneliness in the interim, and by the time grissom and sara get back together/remarried in 2015, sara is forty-four years old and probably peri- or even full-on menopausal, and she and grissom are living a nomadic seafaring lifestyle, so the likelihood of them either having a biological child or fostering/adopting is incredibly low.

again, there was some speculation among fans—based on previous comments from showrunner anthony zuiker regarding his ideas for grissom and sara's post-"immortality" life at sea—that when the reboot rolled around, we would eventually get a "in the six years since we last saw them, grissom and sara have had a kid" reveal.

no dice, though.

s1 of csi: vegas ran its course with no secret boat babies anywhere.

all of the above being the case, there just weren't even that many points during the show's run when it would have made logistical sense for grissom and sara to have children together.

they were always either in a state of having to keep their relationship a secret for the sake of their careers or else of living apart from each other, and by the time they finally got all their shit together and were living in the same place on a full-time basis, sara was nearing the end of her prime childbearing years and they were living the kind of lifestyle where fostering/adoption would be next to impossible.

narratively-speaking, parenthood just was never in the cards for them.

of course, it's worth stating, the writers could have maybe swung a geek!baby storyline in the later seasons had they wanted to if they had just made the choice to move grissom back to vegas along with sara between s10 and s15. he wouldn't even have had to appear on-screen. sara would have just needed to reference him occasionally in dialogue and be shown to take phone calls from him at times, a "i'm meeting grissom for our first ultrasound appointment" here, a "he's been at home painting the nursery all morning. he put little ladybugs up the walls" there. they could have done a whole pregnancy storyline that way, and it would have given sara something to do during seasons when she is otherwise criminally underutilized. then maybe if they were lucky, they could have gotten billy to come back for a guest spot when it came time for the baby to be born. but, alas, such a storyline would have required them to imply depth, which is something they had no idea how to do.

—which brings us to the last big reason why i think the showrunners never had grissom and sara have children:

because, ultimately, they just never felt it was right for the characters.

as stated above, both grissom and sara have plenty of reasons, both individually and as a couple, based on their backgrounds and predilections and development, why they might never choose to pursue parenthood.

while there are certain very particular scenarios were i can imagine they might set those reasons aside, overcome their hang-ups and fears, and decide to "go for it" re: having kids, i also think it would take a lot of narrative work to get them there—that thread would be something the writers would have had to really develop, requiring more than a few "acts of god" and major plot interventions to make the idea seem feasible.

they could have done it if they really wanted to.

but in the end, i think they didn't feel any compelling need.

grissom and sara have been an unconventional couple from the get-go, and their development has been circuitous and unstraightforward. there have been many setbacks for them along the way and strange turns. they've definitely not done everything "by the book."

for them to have a somewhat "untraditional" happy ending—at least by primetime, network early 00s flagship couple tv standards—makes a good amount of sense.

they're not the "white picket fence, 2.5 kids, and a dog" norman rockwell family, and i think tptb are very okay with that outcome.

they like the image of this middle-aged couple that found immense fulfillment in each other and in their shared work (whether as csis or conservationists) and never felt the need to look outside of those things in order to be happy.

that's not to say they might not have written things differently had some of the production realities of the show been different along the way—like, say jorja fox had never left the show during s8 and grissom and sara had been able to get married in vegas as planned while both still working at the lab or that billy had come back to the show with jorja between s10 and s15; maybe in those cases, they might have eventually decided to go for the geek!baby storyline after all—however, all things as they were, i think they were generally pretty comfortable with how things ended up in regards to grissom and sara remaining childless.

they had explored the notion of "csis as parents" as much as they cared to with catherine, warrick, and russell.

they didn't want to go there with grissom and sara.

and who knows? maybe there were other outside factors that influenced their decision to that end, like actor preferences or the difficulty of including infant actors in a complicated production such as theirs, etc.

suffice it to say, i think the showrunners' decision to keep grissom and sara childless was probably a multifaceted one.

the good news is, regardless of how things turned out in canon, we as fans can always play around with the geek!baby concept as much as we want to and in as many different permutations as we like.

i certainly have a lot of fun in my accidentsverse, imagining grissom and sara facing both the challenges and rewards of parenthood, and i know a lot of other fan authors who have their own takes on that idea, as well.

anyway.

rambling now.

thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Funniest irony of Paris Special, is that Shadybug ("evil" version of S1!Ladybug) is "less bad" that S5!Ladybug, due to fact that she is ultimately just "minion of Supreme"

"I was awful, due to Supreme threatening me into compliance. What's your excuse?" - Question that Shadybug should ask to S5!Ladybug, but didn't, due to fact that it would cause latter to look bad (and "we can't have that")

Unless I'm missing something, I don't agree with your assessment of who is the badder one here. I'm assuming S5!Ladybug is getting the "bad" label for keeping everything a secret from Adrien? If so, then I get why that upsets you, but Shadybug is a domestic terrorist or possibly even a domestic and international terrorist. In the grand scheme of things, terrorism ranks much higher than lying to/keeping secrets from your significant other no matter how bad the lie/secret is. I love Adrien, but he is not more important than the safety of every person in Paris.

If I'm wrong and you were instead talking about S5!Ladybug keeping Gabriel's status a secret from Paris? Then I still don't agree. That's not worse than terrorism, especially since I don't even think that Ladybug was clearly in the wrong there.

I disagree with her telling people that Gabriel was some sort of hero - I would have just labeled him an "unfortunate victim" - but the threat is neutralized. Paris is safe. Is the general public really owed the full details of how it happened?

It's a complex question and I fall on the side of protecting the innocent here. Gabriel is dead. Outing him to everyone will just hurt Adrien. I've actually written and will write fics where Gabriel lives, but is neutralized, so he's still not outed because Paris isn't owed the fine details. Perhaps in the idealistic world we see at the end of season five this sort of grand reveal would be a good idea, but in a more realistic world, it would probably blow up in Adrien's face and possibly even force him to give up being a hero due to unwanted public attention. In order to protect him and the secrets of the miraculous, I am totally cool with Gabriel facing justice via non-conventional means. This is probably extra true because I'm not a big fan of punitive justice, so I try to find paths other than traditional jail when dealing with my villains.

I will possibly feel differently about all of the above if season six introduces Gabriel Agreste day or something, but the universe was rewritten by the wish, so maybe Marinette thinks that Gabriel really was a hero? Who knows. Canon is dead to me and, either way, active terrorism is still worse than Gabriel being posthumously seen as a hero.

In your ask you say that Shadybug was "just a minion," but that's not an excuse. If someone hands you a weapon and orders you to hurt another human being, the fact that you were "just obeying orders" doesn't undo the harm you cause by obeying the order. Those things still happened and they happened because of you.

There can be nuance to this depending on context, but that's kind of the problem with making these grand statements about the Paris special: we don't know anything about that other world. We don't know if Emonette has loving parents. We don't know how long she's been working for The Supreme. We don't know if she's been indoctrinated since childhood to obey the Supreme or if he operates from the shadows and she didn't know that he existed until she got her Miraculous. We don't even know what she's done! She could have killed millions! She could have also done nothing but chase after Betterfly. Without a full picture of what her life was like and what she's done, we cannot say that Shadybug is clearly the better person. I'm also having a hard time picturing any context that would lead me to give her that label. She might have a worse life than canon Marinette, but her crimes are still hers.

If you're making the argument that Emonette is more sympathetic than S5!Ladybug, then I might agree as her situation does have the potential to be far more sympathetic than Marinette keeping a massive secret from Adrien, especially when that secret has the potential to cause him very real harm. But that's not a case of our Marinette being worse than Emonette. Emonette is still a terrorist, making her the one who is irrefutably causing the most harm. We just don't see that harm on screen because it would undermined her frankly lackluster redemption.

Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the Paris special, I'm just saying that it only works because we never have to think too hard about what Shadybug and Claw Noir have actually done. Their minimal screentime keeps them pretty tame and allows their redemptions to mostly work. If we'd spent five seasons watching them terrorize people, then their redemptions would probably have felt as lackluster as Gabriel's did.

Because we don't have all of that context, the emo versions fall into the same category as PV Felix: they're so underdeveloped that they're more of a concept than a true character, so you can imagine them as wonderful or as terrible as you would like them to be. They will never be marred by the prolonged influence of the writing staff. If we had a show that starred them, then you would probably feel very differently because it's the same writing staff writing them. I don't see a world in which these two are magically leagues better than what we got in canon.

All of this is reminding me of that excellent Eddie Izzard bit where he talks about horrific, large-scale crimes being so outside of what most people's minds can fathom that they just kind of go, "Oh, well, that's, huh..." because it's easier to know how to react to smaller, more personal wrongs:

[raayllum]

hi jsyk watching your hype and excitement after the new short story is really funny (affectionate/positive)!!! ur excitement for s5 and love of the show is so clear

oh my gosh thank you this is so sweet!! it's the funniest thing because literally every time I want something specific as hell from this show, but lovingly put my clown makeup and assume I'm not going to get it, or that it's a fun prediction but doesn't have to pan out, but then

I either end up getting that exact thing or an even better variant of it??

Like pre-S1 I noticed Rayla's face markings looked like tears, so I hoped we'd see her cry at one point bc I thought it'd be a nice visual parallel? And then 1x09 gave it to me. Going into S2 I hoped for Callum to get over Claudia and for a Rayllum tag, and then [gestures] All That Happened. Even before S3 aired with the "written in the stars" skit I'd noticed the slight dark-lightness theme running through Rayllum's arc and thought it'd be a nice consistency, but I didn't think it'd be a Big Theme, even if as soon as the S4 intro came out I was like "yeah that 'south star' shit is coming back" and well... Gestures to the entire ass "stargazing" clip just between the two of them. The way post-S3 I assumed S4 would be about Callum flying too close to the sun magic wise, being terrified of Aaravos invading this mind, that Aaravos would get out in S5, and that S5 would deal more with Rayla's coin stuff? Ezran as the thematic Witness / Embodiment of Justice? Everything about Claudia's arc?? Chef's kiss

My first post-S3 theory back in 2019 was a "Rayla and Ezran disagree with Callum caught in the middle, leaving to a broyals conflict" wish, gave up on it when TTM hppened because it seemed like we were going in a different direction, campaigned for 2+ years for Callum to do something Fucked Up for Rayla, and like... now I'm going to get both things, presumably that I have desperately wanted/hoped for??

And then there's like, all the things I didn't even know I wanted that TDP just decided to give me anyway?? An Angor Rot villain variant in Kim'Dael? Motherfucking pirates? The game motif becoming a chess motif? Wanting a trio variant sitting around a campfire scene in S4 (that we haven't had since S1) and S4 gave me one and S5's already given me one and there might be More?

I've talked before about how healing TDP has been for me when my prior two fandoms source materials back to back were very disappointing and shoddily put together / majorly side lined their disabled characters / characters of colour (who were also my favourite characters) but like

You ever watch or something, and it feels like it was Made For You, in a way? Like tailor made for like, your interests or preferences or character archetypes, or whatever? That's always how TDP has felt for me in everything it's released and every time it's a beautiful, wonderful experience and a surprise. It would be hard not to be so excited and positive about it, and I cannot wait to continue to be catered to. They never miss!

[cringengl]

Vecna, Will Byers and the importance of family in Stranger Things

We all know that family is important in Stranger Things, so much time is spent on giving El a family, which is juxtaposed to her 'family' at the lab. The reason the name "Papa" is so chilling is because it's an affectionate term that is being used for an abuser. Found family is especially important, not only shown through El, but Steve as whilst he might have started becoming a better person at the end of s1, his character development is truly shown through characters such as Dustin and Robin.

So what does this mean for Will and Vecna??

We all know of the parallels/similarities between Vecna and Will, such as them both being described as "sensitive", their mindflayer drawings, their connection to the UD as well as just looking similar. Although some believe that these similarities may be hinting towards a villain arc for Will in s5, I believe the opposite. This is because of the big glaring difference between the two characters- their family.

The Byers and the Creels are the complete opposite.

Joyce is a single mother, Jonathan is described in s1 (and in Stranger Things Puzzle Tales) as a "Lonley Freak", whereas Will is bullied for being gay (even if he hasn't come out), even Lonnie is shown to be living in a run down house with a young girlfriend. The Byers therefore are almost the opposite of a picture perfect family. Despite this the Byers are a loving family, who are always there for eachother. There are so many examples if this that I'm bound to miss a great one, but Joyce and Jonathan doing everything possible to get Will back safe despite being told he was dead, Jonathan and Will building Castle Byers and how Jonathan is always there for Will, the stories Jonathan and Joyce tell Will to stop his possession and Jonathan telling Will that he'll always love him in s4. Therefore, whilst the Byers don't look like an ordinary family, they love eachother like a family should.

The Creels are a picture perfect family. Their big house seems perfect, they have parents that are together with two children, everyone is dressed in nice clothes, it's the perfect example of the nuclear family. However, during Vecna's monologue, he says that the reason he hated his family was because they were awful people hiding behind a front, such as Victor making that awful mistake during the war but pretending to be a normal father. Vecna despises people conform, put on a facade, lie and so he is now trying to gain power to change the world, for what he thinks is for the better.

Whilst the Creels may have been living a lie, the Byers have not. Will has constantly shown himself to be truthful.

He can't lie to Mike about what he rolled in s1 ep1.

He is bullied for wearing bright clothes, but us not deterred from it (showing that he is being his true self).

Will, Mike, Dustin and Lucas are true to their nerdiness by dressing up for Halloween.

Will doesn't care for the expectations of growing up and doesn't try to conform to them in s3 by being the only one who still wants to play DnD instead of getting older.

Will even says to El that Mike doesn't like it when people lie to him, insinuating that Will doesn't lie to Mike at all.

(This is why the painting is going to be such a big deal in s5, because it's the first time that we really see Will lie)

But what does the difference between Will and Vecna's family mean for s5??

Since family plays such a big role in Stranger Things as well as themes like lying and conformity I feel that Will is going to be almost a mirror image to Vecna, in that they may be similar, but that doesn't mean that they are destined to go down a certain path. Vecna may point out all the injustices that Will has had to face and say "join me to create a better world since we are so alike", but with the love from his new found family, the Hopper Byers, Vecna will be defeated mainly by (and most likely by) Will and El.

Because El's storyline is also about family, I believe that is also what will fuel her to defeat Vecna.

Will and El therefore show how important family is and the support of the found family within Stranger Things may be the key to defeating Vecna, someone who never got to experience this.

WILL'S POWER IS HIS HEART

[bohemian-nights]

Tbh I’m kinda glad nettles isn’t in this season.. hear me out, this season of House of the dragon is going to very depressing with everyone. The real shit starts once the dragon seeds come together, we see Jace starting to act like an actual leader instead of a little kid trying to prove himself. I feel like nettle’s storyline will be a bit darker like yeah addam claiming Seasmoke is cool and all but I feel like Nettles and Sheepstealer have a interesting relationship and bond kinda like Daenerys and Drogon. They won’t need words to ‘claim’ each other. In the book they say Sheepstealer is an ugly skinny brown wild dragon with nettles being a skinny brown wild girl which is kinda racist, but there are judge on appearance before even getting to know them. While in reality I think Sheepstealer is very gentle and genuine with Nettles he can feel that’s she not some mad girl who wants power but rather she’s like an equal to him. A nettles headcanon that I like is that she likes to read or sing to sheepstealer and he listens. While most people think she used magic or voodoo I think nettles took a chance with him. Imagine their first Flight sheepstealer isn’t wild of trying to buck her off rather he’s letting her take the lead so that’s she’s comfortable. Another reason why I’m okay with her not being in this season is because even if Addam claims Seasmoke it could be Laenor because stupidly they let him live and run away without his Dragon and if im correct you can’t claim an already claimed dragon, only way you can is if the rider is dead take their son Joffrey he tries to claim and mount Syrax but ends up being bucked off and fell to his death. I say this all the time it’s great Rhaenyra loved Laenor like a friend but letting him live and run away will come back to haunt them. Let Dumbyra shippers and House of the dragon racist fans and etc have there little moment because as soon as nettles is casted and is there it’s over for them.

I understand and respect your point anon, but my main issue with potentially pushing Nettles back is that it feels like she’s being purposefully being excluded. Yes this might be a dark season, but she still should be included.

They still should make time for her. You shouldn’t include every last dragonseed and be like oh we don’t have time for her/time to properly flesh out her character because they obviously have time to flesh out others even with the shorter episode count.

And we have to keep in mind what kind of show this is.

This is HOTD/GOT. This is about a war. It’s always going to be somewhat depressing. The show won’t stop magically becoming depressing in s3, s4, or s5(if they). The train is just going to keep moving and building on itself. Nettles shouldn’t miss out on that train.

It’s not like s3 is going to be any less jammed packed. We have the Battle of the Gullet in the first part of s3 and the Blacks taking Kings. Maidenpool could happen towards the end of the season. That doesn’t leave a lot of room to flush out Nettles claiming Sheepstealer. She’s going to need to be battle ready within a few episodes.

Which is my main problem with them making such a big deal about Addam claiming Seasmoke.* It seems like that storyline will be dragged out for 4-5(he’s rumored to be coming in at episode 2 or 3) episodes which is the kind of treatment Nettles deserves.

*Laenor allegedly will die off screen which is why Seasmoke starts following him around. Seasmoke won’t be having two riders at the same time. There is nothing special about Addam who is half-Valyrian despite his looks claiming his dead brother’s dragon.

Her claiming was much more interesting and shocking than his in the novel since she was the only dragonseed to claim a wild dragon. A wild dragon that almost killed countless dragonseeds and almost cooked Alyn Velaryon.

I’d like to see them show Nettles claiming Sheepstelaer was different, but time is precious.

I can’t see this show getting more than four or five seasons so they have a lot of ground to cover.

Nettles shouldn’t be a one or two season character. Shes always going to share the screen with other people cause she’s a secondary character, but she’s much more important than being reduced.

This goes past shipping drama, or Addam, or anyone else. She should be there now with everyone else.

[aerialworms]

Please vote! I need external motivation! (I'm still posting Watching Over You, I just need to choose something to finish writing as well)

Summaries:

All of these are endgame Destiel!

Star Trek Fusion AU: I have two fics in this 'verse written but i need to do the prequel first. Castiel, a half-Vulcan Starfleet officer, is appointed as the new Captain of the USS Impala after Bobby retires, keeping Dean as First Officer. Dean does not take well to that. Enemies to FWB to lovers, spread out over at least three different fics! I also made a post rambling about this universe here

Dragon!Cas fic: Set during s9ish when Cas' grace is low - he can regenerate it by spending time in his true form and shutting down most higher brain functions. He essentially turns into a little dragon who gets real clingy around Dean, who is half-annoyed, half-endeared by it. Pretty much just fluff and shenanigans :3

Demon!Dean: Set during the demon dean arc in s10 while Cas is still stealing grace. Crowley captures him and offers him to Dean as a present, and Cas tries to convince Dean to come home while Dean pretends like he's definitely a big bad demon who could easily kill Cas if he wanted, he just. doesn't want to. Angst and smut with a hopeful ending.

Cat!Cas fic: Might end up as a comic, actually - I've got the first four pages sketched out but I don't know where i'm going with it :/ Cas gets turned into a cat by a witch and Dean comes to find him, not realising the injured cat he's been caring for and venting to about Cas *is* Cas. Pining!Dean and hurt/comfort for Cas!

Interactive time loop confession fix it: An interactive fic, made using Twine. You play as Dean, stuck in a time loop of the confession until you find a way to save Cas and break free

Cas Swap: (post-confession fix it) In two seperate universes, at the same time, two versions of Dean perform a spell to resurrect their own Cas from the Empty. Canon!Cas is brought back into a world with a Dean his counterpart has been in a relationship with since Tombstone. Canon!Dean gets that AU!Cas, who is unafraid of showing his love for Dean, but also won't put up with any of Dean's bullshit. Each set of Dean-and-Cas-es have to work together to get Cas back to his own universe, and deal with their issues along the way.

The Wrong Avalon: A BBC Merlin/SPN crossover, with endgame Destiel and Merthur! Set vaguely pre-s12 of SPN and post s5 of Merlin. The British Men of Letters have been trying to raise the mythical King Arthur from the dead for some time. When they finally succeed, however, he does not come up in the UK. Instead, he surfaces in Lake Avalon, Michigan, where two hunters and a put-upon angel discover him. Since he can only speak Old English, he becomes fast friends with Cas, which totally doesn't make Dean jealous at all, but he still mourns for his old life and family. When he discovers that Merlin may still be alive, he dedicates himself to finding him, but when the BMoL close in, intent on using Arthur for their own gain, Arthur must rely on his new friends, as well as his oldest one, to gain his freedom and his happiness.

Btw if you wanna know when I post these, you can follow me on AO3 (same username as tumblr) and/or ask to be tagged!

[mdhwrites]

S3 Has Done A Weirdly Good Job Setting Up For It’s Finale... But Was It Worth It?

For anyone who is thinking this is a gag or a gotcha... Well, it’s a little of the second but it’s not a joke actually. I’m sincere in saying that it has made it so that, despite S2B, it is actually capable of even having a finale at this point that might be at all satisfying. The bigger question is if it matters when there’s so little satisfying about the show at this point or to get hyped about. This was inspired by someone mentioning that they expected the finale to be middling despite loving the show because it simply had too much to wrap up. Too many plot threads to tie together. I mean, come on! They haven’t even given Belos a full backstory yet. Which... That last part is fascinating to me from a narrative standpoint but I also don’t entirely blame them for it. I’ll get back to it though because the bigger question is: How many plot threads really are still dangling? How many character arcs need to be finished? How much expanding on things is there to do? Let’s go down the list of what was theoretically needed to be tackled by S3 once S2 was wrapped. We’ll also talk about how each one was wrapped up (expect much snark), or not as some cases will be: (and sorry if I’m a bit off the mark on any of these. I’ve seen parts of the episodes but still refuse to watch the season itself so much of this is second hand): Returning to the Human Realm: Fixed effectively as much by happenstance as anything else. This allowed the first special to focus more on other matters from what I’ve been told. Speaking of those other matters: Luz’s angst over helping Belos and the Collector: *incoherent screaming* Ignoring this being one of the worst plot decisions in the show, it is wrapped up at this point. Getting Stringbean is effectively that moment. This is, you know, in spite of the fact that all evidence points to Luz entirely ignoring any talk of how mistakes are okay and shifting it entirely onto a personal narrative that is questionable at best because when was the last time someone told Luz no? Or didn’t try their damnedest to understand her? When did Camila ever do this in fact outside of when Luz’s actions caused her to ACCIDENTALLY ASSAULT PEOPLE? But it’s resolved with minimal interaction from other characters besides her mom. Everyone forgives her immediately anyways when it was revealed and it continued into the second special for... reasons I’ll get into. Hunter being a Grimmwalker: Dealt with similarly to Luz’s angst where no one actually thinks it’s a big deal besides him until Belos takes possession of him. They then gut their disability allegories by ‘curing’ Hunter through the death of his best friend. Because I’d totally be cured of my depression if my best friend gave their life to make it happen! Amity... Actually, Amity at the point of S3 has effectively nothing going on that needs further expanding, to the point where she doesn’t bring up her dad in S3 Ep. 2. This is probably why she’s the largest comic relief in S3 Ep. 1 with human realm shenanigans and clumsiness because the writers recognize she’s still the third most important of the characters in the human realm. Speaking of: Gus: Hasn’t had anything going on in the entire show except for single episode plotlines. He was never going to get much out of S3. Or even a S5 potentially with how the writers treated him. Willow: I would copy and paste what I just said about Gus except that she gets stuff in the second special even though many of the elements used for it haven’t been relevant to her character for at least one season, if not literally two. And yet she still gets to effectively be the secondary star to Ep. 2 and... I’ll get into why after I’m done with this portion. Lilith: Her character was done with ‘Cool Aunt Lilith’. Eda: Eda hasn’t actually had anything going on for her except Raine since S1′s finale. Even the S1 finale ends up being treated by her more like a reset back to status quote than anything more which has interesting things about it good and bad. I’m being mouthy enough as is though. Belos: Should have stayed dead and sure as shit isn’t getting anymore interesting just because every bit of lore is tied to his backstory. He’s a villain because he’s an asshole and he really isn’t much deeper than that unfortunately. The best thing about him is change he inspires in other characters and... *looks back at Luz and Hunter* Let’s just say he’s no Perfect Cell, a villain who also gets a lot of bonus points for that same reason. The Collector: Over three months he went from “I can’t wait to play in the bones!” to “What is death? I’m just a wittle guy.” Which is effectively mixing an anarchic, force of nature villain and turning him into a sympathetic villain who doesn’t understand his actions who is Upside: one step away from redemption and Downside: not at all coherent or interesting because he’s so obviously barely a character. He’s just missing too much to not easily be read as a tool of the author to have ANOTHER (the at least fourth in the series in THREE SEASONS) bad guy turned good guy. Just, you know, the biggest because it’s the finale. Camila: She’s a saint with no baggage and resolved Luz’s stuff so nothing really there. The Isles being warped by the Collector: I have thoughts on what I’ve seen and heard but I’ll actually pin this for the same segment as Belos’ ‘full’ backstory. Kikimora: Who was still taking Kikimora seriously? Who COULD take Kikimora seriously by now? She’s threatening only because of a mech but she herself has been a joke since Eclipse Lake. Why would they include her... Put a pin in it. Edit: King: I forgot King at first but he’s honestly a main character at this point because of LORE so I’m not all that surprised. He has such little to do between him finding out about his beginnings to when he found out about his heritage (minus Knock Knock Knocking) that he’s overshadowed by a lot of others. After Titan Hunters, he then became quite possibly the wisest, most rational character in the show. Bare minimum, the wisest 8 year old in existence. And that’s... Just super not interesting. Any real plot line left with King I feel effectively died the moment he was ready to give his blood to the Collector with minimal hesitation. For the greater good, don’t get me wrong, but he’s EIGHT YEARS OLD. And theoretically still the same character as he was in S1. But I’ve done several blogs at this point about TOH’s character arcs being rough to put it mildly. And I could maybe go on but that’s much of what comes to mind immediately. So what is left to cover for S3′s finale? Well... The Collector’s final game which doesn’t have to be that long. The Collector’s turn to being a good guy, likely when his game demands he kill King, or King gets a chance by the rules of the game to kill the Collector but doesn’t do so. Just something that makes the Collector start considering how other people feel about his games and the like in a big, emotional way so he can make his full transition. Belos being forced out of Raine’s body and nuked by The Collector. Again. And Luz’s destiny between worlds. Which world, or both, will she be living in. And that’s... actually pretty bare bones going into a finale. That’s more than little enough to cover in 55 minutes alongside some resolution for the other characters getting happy endings in a montage. And... If you didn’t notice, this is actually mostly what was left on the table for S3 in general except for more potential of the process of beating The Collector being more complicated and harder to do. And that’s where we get into the pins about Kikimora and Willow. They’re padding. It sucks to say, I don’t like it either, but without actually trying to finally use the coven heads as antagonists or have a more protracted conflict with The Collector and what he’s done to the Isles, you needed some way to have an episode in the Isles that still dealt with something specifically of the Isles in theory. And those things were chosen to be first Hexide, a setting that has hardly mattered for about a season at that point besides the fact that it gives a convenient meeting ground for Hunter to meet Gus and Willow... Characters who mostly didn’t matter in S2, and especially S2A for Willow. Second was Boscha and Kikimora for antagonists because one is a Hexide antagonist who stopped mattering before the end of S1 and then the person who had a big enough mech to theoretically even challenge the five strongest witches on the Isles. And then because Gus has a good relationship with most people, plus shipping with Matt, the conflict went instead to Willow. Instead of being clever with her arch and how the show has defined her role in the narrative, they go back to an issue dealt with literally in the first six episodes of the series as a representation for repression. Because out of control magic is totally what makes sense for repressing your emotions instead of, I dunno, her powers genuinely just not functioning because she’s plugged herself up too much. It’s not a bad angle mind you, it’s done fine enough and fits okay with the character, even now, but I also made an entire blog about Too Little Too Late because of it. But then we get to the other pins: Belos’ backstory and the changing of the Isles. These are... theoretically things they cover and expand but they’re also just not narratively critical at this point. Belos is indeed still the main villain but he’s motivated by spite and wanting to finish his goal of killing all witches more than he is by his backstory or logic so his reasoning hardly matters. The changing of the Isles also has mostly to do with selling the Collector as a threat and villain, things that are actually against the writer’s narrative goals. So a lot of things people are asking for are things that, from the standpoint of this being a show with limited time and a high cost of production, just... shouldn’t be covered. That time should more be spent refining finishing the plot and giving a satisfying ending. But when there’s so little to resolve, and characters have been either kind of flat or out of character for much of the season... Why should we be excited for the ending? Especially an ending that has effectively telegraphed itself even before a trailer was put out for it. What sucks about an ending like the Sopranos is that an audience can imagine a dozen ways for it to go down and an answer to that, especially in something they love, can be exhilarating. But in something like The Owl House, where the answers are obvious and only the minutia is up for debate, and much of that minutia could be painful or narratively backwards (OOOOOH BOY will it be a bad time for everyone if they bull the same thing they did with Amphibia and have Luz only live in the Human Realm and wish everyone on the Isles goodbye) then... Why should we be excited? It isn’t the conclusion of a story that has too many questions to be certain about or a villain we want so badly to see brought down that it’ll bring us true catharsis. It’s the ending of a world we once saw so much potential in and now are just hoping won’t die in its final moments. And honestly? For me? I wish the show had actually faced a cancellation because that world feels so small now that I’d rather it have just never been given an ending so we could play in the world as much as we desired and never had to face the prospect of one last, painful goodbye instead of a triumphant farewell.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Ties Between FTWD, TWB and the Maggie/Negan Spinoff?

@galadrieljones:

I saw the ask about the Maggie/Negan spin-off and I do agree, it feels like a mystery. With Hershel being abducted, I find it interesting that we have that information but literally nothing else. It makes me think they want us to connect it to what’s currently going on in Fear.

Will it be airing at the same time as Fear?

If so I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to set something up in terms of tensions between them. I’m trying to remember if there are any characters connected to Manhattan. We only know that the WB endlings have a faction in NY state, but not NYC.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Interesting! I hadn’t thought of connecting the Maggie spin-off directly to Fear, but that’s a great point! 👍🏻

I’ve thought about TWB too, as I said in the Ask. Even tho it’s NY state vs. NYC, so still think it’s a small enough area that the character paths could cross. And too much of a coincidence to think they’re not setting something up there.

After all, if Morgan could randomly stumble onto Daryl and Aaron in S5, who happened to know the exact guy he was looking for, no reason Maggie and Negan couldn’t encounter Iris and Elton. 😉 Here’s hoping! 🙏🏻

@wdway:

It's so funny guys because I've been thinking about this for the last few days and then this morning I read your ask, @twdmusicboxmystery, about TWD:DC Maggie/Negan's spin-off and plan on bring it up to you guys but other things got in the way. So this evening when I checked my phone I got excited when I saw that you guys had started to discuss it.

Surprise, surprise I have a few thoughts on the subject. The initial thing that I've been thinking about is the order in which tptb are airing the spin-offs. Earlier this week Fears final season part A air date has been moved until May 14 with 6 instead of 8 episodes which put the last episode in the first block ending on June 18th.

In the Comicbook article announcing the change date it said that Maggie/Negan spin-off TWD:DC would follow Fear in June. Since they're making a big deal about the spinoffs I can't imagine they would air Maggie and Negan's beginning episode on the same night as the last block episode of Fear so that means it would start the following Sunday on June 25th. 6 episodes would mean it would finish on July 30th.

San Diego Comic-Con this year is July the 20th through the 23rd. I tried to find some dates for panels but it only said that TWD's last Comic-Con was July of 2022.

Initially this surprised me because I cannot believe after all these years and what a big deal Comic-Con has always been that The Walking Dead Universe would not be represented. Then I realized that it is in how you ask the question and in fact the TWD original show from the comic did end and had its last Comic-Con in 2022 but since I didn't quite know how to phrase the panel question with all the different spin-offs. I don't know how they would group it together because I cannot imagine them passing up such a huge opportunity to promote the TWD universe spinoffs.

I'm going to speculate that this might be one of the reasons they push the dates back so that since Dead City will not finish its run until the 30th of July then they can still promote it during Comic-Con along with Fear and the other upcoming spinoffs.

From here on this truly is speculation but I don't believe that they would want to come back with Fear Part B directly after Dead City. That would only be a 6 week break.

We also know that the Daryl Dixon spin-off will air in 2023 so my best guess is Fear series final 6 episodes will air beginning September 3rd and end October 6th or start back on September 10th and end on October 15th.

Here's the thing I got excited about is looking at the dates. If Fear ends on the 15th that would mean that the Daryl Dixon spin-off will begin on October 22! That right 10/22!!!

Is it just me or does that date seem like a likelihood and a meaningful one? With the number 22 showing up in s5e8 Coda on a police car

and then later on a door in s1 of TWB, on the sailboat with Michonne and Virgil in s10e13 What We Become and in s11e21 Outpost, on another door in s11e23 Family in the scene where Daryl is carrying Judith who has been shot a replay of Coda.

It just seems like too much of a possible coincidence that they would not use that date for Daryl spinoff.

The other thing that I wanted to mention to you guys I do think there could be a possibility of Maggie and Negan's spin-off tying in with TWB since both spin-off's are set in NY state. It's just that I'm getting more of a vibe that Fear will give us something that will make sense or tie into the storyline of Herschel's kidnapping. We last saw Morgan and Madison searching for Morgan's daughter because she had been kidnapped. It just seems like too much of a lead in for Maggie and Negan's search for Herschel imo.

The other thing is and this is something I would love for us to discuss in more detail is how they left Al and her partner Isobel. They left the audience with the fact that they were in the Smoky Mountains and we know that Maggie was in the Knoxville area which is near the foothills of the Smoky Mountains. There again it seems to be a natural lead in to the people who are targeting Maggie.

Just a few more things for thought.

One more 22 that I forgot to add to the above list. Series episode 22 was s3e3 Walk With Me. The episode where we find out that Merle and Andrea are still alive.

@galadrieljones:

I love all the date speculation. I really enjoy thinking about how these disparate pieces are going to come together in small but potent ways. I feel strongly too that what we learn in Fear must inform Maggie and Negan’s search for Hershel. There’s no way that what’s happening with Morgan isn’t on a crash course for what’s about to happen to Hershel.

The thing about Madison’s return is, that even tho I don’t love her character, her role is pretty compelling. All this stuff with kidnapped kids, and how it subtly informs situations, barely hinted at the flagship, it makes me excited for how it connects to Beth, as the nanny, the caretaker.

The episode Inmates always comes to mind, how her only goal is to find the children. At the end of Too Far Gone, the reason she isn’t on the bus and ends up with Daryl in the first place is because she bravely went back for the kids. It’s her first true heroic attempt, even as she is not successful.

It’s part of why I always compare her to the Biblical Rachel, who was the farmer Laban’s youngest daughter, beautiful, and who struggled to have her own children but who was a great maternal protector of her ppl. It really makes the Jacob/Daryl and Leah in disguise thing sing for me.

I mean Rick is the most important character in the franchise and Beth took care of his children. She was like part of his family. She was a quietly important character.

Also, I’m glad you brought up Al and Isobel. Remember too how Denis from WB told a story about his partner early on when he was a soldier in the CRM going awol in the Smokies. I remember doing the math on the coordinates for Isobel’s cabin and determining that it was only about 30mi from Knoxville.

This makes the Smokies a legit mention in all three shows. Maggie pinpoints her time in Knoxville to a couple summers ago, which could be a nod to the time difference with Fear.

I am purely speculating that possibly Al and Isobel were in hiding in Maggie’s community, which was then targeted by the CRM, as you suggested. We’ve also speculated that possibly Georgie has a CRM bounty on her head, or is some sort of CRM escapee. We know from WB that the CRM uses walkers to end their threats.

If this is the case, Maggie would just think a horde moved through. She wouldn’t know it was the CRM. It would just seem like things keep going wrong. Maybe Al and Isobel stay with them and move from place to place with them. Maybe they don’t even realize it’s the CRM at first, until whatever happened before Meridian. Then they take off. Maggie never mentions Al or Isobel, but we know she lost a lot of ppl. She might just assume they’re dead. Or maybe they went with Georgie out west.

This is why I feel we may see the Reapers again. Why they gave us that purposeful zoom into Michael Turner’s face. Maybe the Reapers were bounty hunters for the CRM for a time. Per the timeline it’s feasible that Leah was with Daryl when Knoxville went down, which is why she goes easier on her in some ways.

Remember too there’s this weird tension with Maggie and Michael Turner. He is the guy wearing the super classic reaper mask. He has it in for her specifically and follows her into the mall.

There’s tons of focus on him as the guy who throws his scythe at her at the end of that bizarre opening sequence in Hunted. Maybe (and this is huge speculation lol) he will reappear at some point, in a flashback, or in Fear as pertaining to Al and Isobel, and that’s why they were so certain to show us a close-up of his face in Rendition.

I spent a long time trying to find out who the actor is who plays Michael Turner and I could never find anything. Wonder why!

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Love all the discussion, Ladies! One thing I think TD has always been really good at is figuring out the logic of how/why tptb would do a thing. I honestly think that's why we're right so often. After all the stuff about kids being taken, how could Dead City NOT be about that, you know? And I think all your logic above is on point. 👍

@wdway:

The long ramble that I did about the possible air dates for Fear and Daryl Dixon spin-off I feel should be combined with what I wrote you @twdmusicboxmystery, in a comment for an "ask" posted the other day about my theory of why they bumped Rick and Michonne's spin-off until 2024.

A large part of the general audience doesn't seem to be able to make connections of how these spin-off's will all tie together to lead into a bigger story of a war with the CRM. I get why a lot of people cannot see this coming because for whatever reason they have not watched Fear since Morgan moved over to that series to slowly lay out over several seasons the storyline of the introduction of the CRM in the TWD Universe.

Even though The World Beyond was billed as a closer look into the CRM many viewers couldn't get pass the storyline featuring 4 inexperienced teenagers on a quest to New York to the Civic Republic Scientific Research community. They had little patience for the teenagers and what on the surface didn't seem to relate to the faster more action packed original TWD series.

My belief is that all of the spin-off's will eventually merge together into a new non-comic book based series. TWD Part 2 or TWD the Last Act. Whatever they decide to call it it'll be a continuation of the story after the end of the comic era with many of the characters from the original series that are not included in the upcoming spin-off's.

From Facebook:

Here's my theory about them pushing the Rick and Michonne spin off until '24.

First I agree what you said about wanting to focus the big story for 2023 being the Daryl/Beth storyline. The word epic has been thrown around a lot for both spin-off's so I don't think they want to put them necessarily back to back. I believe they want to establish or keep that fall Walking Dead series air timeline. You have people who have come so accustomed to having TWD during October and November and it is not a wise move to leave it open to movies or something random and people get used to looking at other networks during that time period.

Here's the real reason I think R/M spin-off has been moved to next year. The R/M spin-off should be able to finish their filming by late spring so they will have time to edit it and then it will air probably in February of "24 when TWD would normally have their second half of their season.

So they would be keeping their fall and winter TWD programming format. And this is where I think the long range plan is being set in place coming the fall of '24 we will have the spin offs coming together for the new series with the return of of many of others characters that are still at the CW/AZ.

I think a lot of the actors will have a nice break from after their spinoffs are done and the new series comes together. They can go and do their individual other jobs and still come back for a new revamped TWD that will have all the beloved characters that are still alive and will not have to work from the comic book. The things that people were so weary of having new characters without enough air time to care about them will no longer be an issue. I'm sure it will be a good size cast but not overly so. Filming for the new revamped TWD series would probably start next spring of 2024 and air that fall.

@galadrieljones:

All really good points, @wdway. It’s so easy to forget how much of the CRM undercurrent has been just outright missed by the GA. Even I initially dismissed WB till you all suggested I should watch it. It’s not the type of show I would normally watch, but I wanted to watch it just to understand the foundation of what was going on. So like are there ppl who saw that Rick coda and were just completely confused, or…?

[bugsbenefit]

What I'd keep in mind about the older teens actors having more promo so far is that they're more liked online. The younger leads have more scrutiny on them for whether they like Noah, since they were pretty close before, and Cara while she might be more of a lead this season, also made her likes on X private last month (not long before Elon made it that way for everyone) so they have to know she's being called out for her takes on Israel and JKR. But it is odd we haven't seen Winona or Priah yet

i see where you're coming from it'd make sense if they were just leaning into posting actors they would have to worry less about pr wise. it just doesn't really seem like that is really playing into what they post, at least not in a substantial way

the fact that someone like Winona isn't in ANY promo up until now is weird as hell, especially because Joyce is one of the shows most liked and most iconic characters. (as well as Jo/pper being the most liked ship in mainstream circles) if they wanted to post likable actors to get the hype up she'd probably be the one to go to first

it's also pretty noteworthy that they posted pics of Noah no problem before, even more than once. when even Hopper only showed up once up until now. it's very possible they're holding back pr wise behind the scenes but they're also very much still including him in their official updates

so certain people showing up more than others really does seem to be pretty random as of now and not tied to public perception of the actors that play the characters (people with bad pr like Noah being in posts while generally liked people like Winona not showing up being the easiest comparison)

(and i think it's also worth considering that the production updates we see are generally geared towards fans of the show. people who keep up with the active production of a show that's most likely more than a year from releasing already have to be pretty invested in the property. it'd be a fair assumption on the Duffer's part that the people who are actively following which actors they post are already aware that people like Noah will be in s5. and "holding back" from posting certain actors to what is essentially the core audience would probably not actually do very much since everyone checking ross's instagram already knows who's in the show)

but also, again, i'm not really reading much into who's in the promo posts in the first place right now so i'm not making any guesses about s5 based on this, t'was just an observation. the "teens" being in so many of the updates could be due to any reason really: had fun on set and took more pictures, nothing happened in the scenes that would be a big visual spoiler, or could also just be a real coincidence that we've seen more of the teen group. we're dealing with a small data pool here after all lmao. like, i can say Maya shows up more than twice as much as Noah but in reality we're dealing with 5:2 yk

[catras-breakup-song]

I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FR. honestly, i would get where critics are coming from with saying catra was forgiven too easily… if it had been any other show. i haven’t seen avatar (and i know everyone’s tired of these two being compared so often, usually for bad reasons unfortunately), but from what i gathered it made sense and was in-character for katara to not forgive zuko easily. (correct me if i’m wrong, though.)

however in the case of scorpia, and also additionally entrapta, they’re just easy-going people who genuinely wanted to be around catra knowing her potential to have a big heart, which doesn’t come out of nowhere considering she had protected them both from hordak on separate occasions multiple times. that doesn’t mean they didn’t deserve better friendships & connections than pre-S5 catra, especially by excusing it with “they didn’t know better existed yet”, it just means that it’s an authentic decision on their part to forgive her by virtue of her actively improving social interactions. other people may or may not disagree that her arc was rushed in the bigger picture, but regardless it wasn’t a thoughtless move on the writers’ part to make those two willing to accept her back into their lives again.

scorpia was aware that catra was a troubled, traumatized person, and truly wanted the best for her, and out of pure kindness and love & care for her friends, wanted to be there whenever her therapy might be needed. i’m glad her centered episode in season four portrayed the message that such benevolent souls don’t have to put up with poor treatment anymore just because healing needs to happen, but i really didn’t read it as “she’s all out of fucks to give and is done giving chances, so catra should be left to deal with her problems alone” (that’s simply not aligning with who she is at all) as much as “there is nothing she can do any longer and must move on to help others who will gladly receive it, but won’t entirely quit waiting on catra to be ready again in the future should that day ever arrive.” the difference in tone with those mindsets is significant and anyone who doesn’t see it is probably the one who actually doesn’t regard the struggles of someone who suffered abuse since childhood, then abandonment issues.

entrapta, on the other hand, is a bit less complicated, but still sticks to the theme of a brief response being appropriate without undermining the weight of actions being apologized for. it would sound crazy if you were familiar with beast island but not entrapta, yet unironically i believe she was perfectly okay with being sent there, if not for the potential fact that there was a lack of notice + time to prepare. i’m not sure if she read it like the punishment it was intended to be, but in any other circumstance she likely would have been happy to go and explore, whether she was aware of how dangerous it was presumed to be already even by non-visitors or not. that being said, she is quite intelligent and beyond inventor skills, seems to have cartoon-logical skills with avoiding a threat if she simple doesn’t acknowledge it and moves around almost in a dance to avoid attacks she’s none-the-wiser to. hell, she had no problem walking right up to horde prime’s clones and chatting them up. the point is, it wouldn’t have made any sense for her reaction to catra’s emotional apology to be nonchalant; is that related to her being autistic, as someone who also is? maybe, and perhaps it does cause a lack of understanding to the situation that she deserves to have. either way though, it just didn’t appear to pain her at all like it would to another character.

this doesn’t even get into adora and glimmer, so we’re still not done yet!

adora has known catra for both of their entire lives, and if scorpia tried to understand why catra acted out the way she did, then adora had an intimate-level recognition. it’s actually fascinating to think about how she finally cut catra off during an extreme event several episodes before scorpia did on just another random day, in a way. i appreciate that we did get to see adora stand up for herself and finally make that call once she’d had enough, because like i said, no one is obligated to dedicate their efforts to someone who won’t let them pay off, but it’s not difficult to piece together why it took so long despite the insistence upon refusal multiple times to co-operate and make things work — especially if you analyze their initial fallout correctly. it’s of my own opinion that, even if you somehow rooted for adora but not catra, the story would simply feel incomplete if adora had not chosen to immediately accept catra back into her life as soon as she chose the right path. it wasn’t blind-sighted either, as despite how much hope and excitement she had after glimmer’s rescue, we can still see for a brief moment on her face (look below) before being begged to stay on mara’s ship that she was willing to leave catra forever if stubbornness still prevailed… but that never proceeded, because catra finally, reluctantly, made the change she knew she had to.

glimmer does come across as the most wasted potential to me, but really only because of one small scene i feel like the show lacks, which is the infamous concept of a discussion + acknowledgement of angella’s sacrifice that never took place. if i had been able to write that part in, i would have wanted to see glimmer express anguish, but be able to live with it rather than either act out in revenge or forget about it as two extremes on polar opposite sides of the spectrum. with her, an honest & healing one-on-one talk could have moved her along the grieving process greatly. to me that works well because glimmer & catra are known to be foil characters in the narrative, and it’s said that they hated each other so much because of how many similarities they saw in one another. it wouldn’t be far-fetched to claim that she would understand why catra felt so emboldened to pull the lever in her current mental state once it had been explained to her what she didn’t witness go down in the crimson waste after huntara took her away, since she knows exactly what it’s like to later on make an impulsive decision out of desperation. (plus i don’t think she’d really get it at the time anyway, considering she was so unfamiliar with what the big deal was with shadow weaver back in the first season and obviously didn’t see the issue with being in good terms with her residing in the same castle that adora lived in first.)

super long post, but i wanted to provide my thoughts on this open discussion among the fandom!

scorpia never gaf about an apology ok

been wanting to point this out cause i still see a lotta hate on it - the traditional weepy apology from catra to scorpia would i guess be the normal way to go w things, but would only be done in a show where the creators dgaf about staying true to the characters.

scorpia was prob the most emotionally aware in the show, aside from her future wifey perfuma ofc, hence why they're so damn perfect together. the horde softie and the rebel sweetie- C'MON!

and w that empathy, she was always aware when catra was extra messed up and knew that it was cause. some. shit. went. down. and she was always tryna get it out of her, get catra to talk it out. the one time she really did ofc, catra ended up nearly suffocating cause that stupid lil imp overheard the whole confession about shadow weaver.

so nah, the likelihood of having any luck w that ever again - not looking so good after that.

but even when she leaves, she acknowledges to emily - there's nothing she can do for catra. noting that something needs to be done - stating quite clearly that she recognizes catra is not ok but forcing herself to accept she can't help her. cause she is purest friendship friend of all time ok ILY SCORPIA

and then being so distracted by shadow weaver's presence she initially spaces out on answering glimmer, who thinks she's ignoring her. seeing sw and basically having her curiosity about what was fcking w catra so much answered instantly. she realizes it immediately - and the looks on adora's face tell me that mf'er never even thought about it once. i get it though, it's not her fault cause def is a direct result of her own trauma, but adora slipped up bad on the effect sw being w her would have on catra and straight didn't even think of it for a full season, till scorpia said something.

scorpia is the sweetest lil stingy stabby bb on etheria and i will throw down on that fr

even after officially repping the rebellion - she doesn't wanna see catra hurt. cause let's be real, all she's ever really wanted for catra - even through the gush crushin times - was for that bitch to let herself be happy. the moments she saw of it were so few, but you can tell that's why she lights up when she does get to see it. not cause she's gooey over thinkin catra likes her back - cause she's just so stoked to see her happy.

BEST FCKING FRIENDO OF ALL TIME OK

ily scorpia

[raayllum]

hello what are your thoughts on a rayllum situation a la percy and annabeth in which either or both give up a great power/opportunity to be with each other?

while I’m not really sure we’d ever see this in canon I love the idea of it

So Rayllum has had PJO / Percabeth energy to me for a long time

And I am deeply intrigued by what lengths Rayla and Callum will be willing to go to save each other, as keeping one another safe has always been one of their biggest priorities and brought out their most batshit sides. We already know what Test of Love Rayla is going to have (leaning towards next season but could also see S6) in terms of her being willing to risk the world when Callum is possessed again ("You let him live but you killed us all / You have two choices: you all die, or just the evil wretched human dies") in favour of fighting to break him free and save him. It's already been textually confirmed, symbolically, as well that she will successfully save him.

“Wow. So they look identical, but they might kill you or they might save you,” Callum said.

“Exactly. Just like me…” Rayla smiled. (Book One novelization)

This will of course play a big hand in restoring their relationship, as well as herself, to what they/she used to be. A complete inverse of her "We can't save everyone, there's too much at stake" dismissal in 4x05 that shows how jaded her time alone had made her, traumatizing her to a point nothing else she'd ever been through (almost losing her hand, losing her family, her village, etc) had pushed her to. But of course to Callum, "Rayla is a hero" and that's what makes her who she is, and it's the positive side of her self sacrificial / selfless nature (as the self sacrifice is still alive and kicking in S4 with going after Viren, being the first to give Rex a gift, etc etc as well as the self loathing). Her saving him is the perfect "wrap it up in a bow" of setup and pay off for all of it, and her arc in general from a S1-S5 type deal.

I think there's a lot of layers to Percy's choice to give up immortality in the books (not only for Annabeth, although yes, definitely for her) but also taking into account for what he asks for in its stead: for the gods to be accountable, to pay their dues, in the ways heroes and mortals too often have instead. It shows his maturity, his series long disgust at injustice and unfairness, his beloved impertinence to say what he thinks regardless of the consequences. To honour Luke and all the other fallen demigods, but also himself.

On that level TDP doesn't have quite the same set up (although we'll see about holding humans and Xadia more accountable for the deep history / the Startouch elves as gods) but if Rayla is going to risk the world to save him, then he also has to accordingly risk the world to save her. This is particularly true as Rayla's heroic nature ad deep love for Callum is emphasized in all prior seasons, as well as the latter majorly in S4. We'll have an easy time believing she'd made that kind of decision for him. With S4, it throws a little bit of a wrench into Callum's side of things, but that's all the more reason for him to do it; to reaffirm his massive, life altering, world changing love for her (she, who desperately needs to know she is loved, too, after all this time). After all on his side of things, her absence has to affect him more than shutting down and more than just being obsessed with magic; a "I lost her once, I won't lose her again" justification if he does something batshit for her would give retroactive narrative reasoning on his end, and it'd be very earned, I think (since we see how messed up he is over her absence in 4x01, even after all that time). And again, Rayla cannot only save him - she also has to mess up, to need to be bailed out - in order for her to actually learn her lesson about self worth and sacrifice and why she needs to fucking stay or at the very least, fully accept that Callum will always be coming with her.

After all, they both need the opportunity to choose each other, to save one another, and as always, I think Callum giving up the Key of Aaravos to the villains (whether the Key is just for the prison, or Aaravos' heart, or whatever) if Rayla had gotten captured and her life was on the line makes a lot of sense. Big tag about it here, & masterposts (pre s4 and post s4). So I'd say that's my big percabeth "giving something up majorly for the one you love" schtick.

Either way I can't wait for S5 to make me cry