#but not necessarily tfone

[transingthoseformers]

Orion and D-16 having an intimate moment involving painting each other but they don't exactly have any practice so by the end of it they're both a bit of a mess, but the ✨vibes✨ were amazing though

[the-one-and-only-elita]

One thing that I absolutely love about TFOne's writing is that it manages to avoid a lot of the heavier criticism I've seen regarding MegOp's hero/villain dynamic over the years (trust me, the mid-2010s TF discourse was crazy)

*Spoilers Below*

First of all, the narrative benefits so much from the main 4 cast members all being a part of the same exploited mining class. So many takes on MegOp have Orion being of a higher status (an archivist, a cop, etc) while Megatron is much lower down on the social latter (a miner, a gladiator, often in the context of being a slave).

I've seen many people be put off by this, because it feels as if Megs is being villianized for being rightfully angry at the system that deeply harmed and exploited him, while Orion/Optimus is praised for taking a more pacifistic stance despite him not suffering as much from or in some ways even benefiting from the system he claims to oppose. I don't find their dynamic to be as simple as that, and I do find these takes to be a bit reductive, but I do very much see where they are coming from.

I am definitely one of those people who's very frustrated with the way pacifism is hailed as the one true path of morality, and the inherent implication that taking any sort of revenge on the people who abused/exploited you makes you just as bad as them. Also, Marvel's particular brand of demonizing any form of radical political action, despite the system clearly being broken and corrupt, but being completely unwilling to offer any other alternatives to meaningfully change things for the better.

When looking at what I described above its pretty easy to see how a lot of versions of MegOp's hero/villain dynamic unfortunately fits into that trope. Bringing it back to TFOne, you can see how Op and Meg coming from the same political/social status subverts this. The existence of Elita and Bee only further illustrates that out of the 4 people of the mining class who were all deceived, exploited, and literally mutilated in the same way it is only D-16 that completely loses himself to his rage, even to the point where he loses compassion for his own companions and disregarding the safety of the other miners (when he decides to "tears everything down" and Elita exclaims he's going to "kill everyone").

What I think I love most about the characterization in TFOne is that Orion is the radical one. Not only that, but he is praised by Elita and by extension the narrative for it. He is constantly challenging authority, and is the first to have the suspicion that their society is structured in an unjust way.

Meanwhile D-16, to be frank, is kind of a bootlicker. He fully believed in the system and that Sentinal Prime, as someone with power, had the right to decided "what was best" for those who are weaker/lesser (I wish I had the specific quote from D-16 to support this, but the movie's still in theaters). It illustrate that D-16 already held certain fascistic ideals, and that he and Orion already have fundamentally opposing moral/political values, it simply hasn't been of any consequence yet. It shows that their eventual falling out was inevitable, even if they had decided to rebuild Cybertron together.

It should also be noted that D-16's feelings of anger and betrayal do not necessarily have anything to do with the unjust system itself, but that said unjust system was predicated on a lie. Hence his fixation on deception in the post-credits scene and him naming his faction the Decepticons. Meanwhile, when Orion learns the truth he's just sort of like "yeah, I always kinda knew something was up" because again, he understood on some level that their system was predicated on injustice.

Even D-16's obsession with Megatronus Prime, while initially an endearing aspect of his character, is also an indicator of the questionably large amount of value he puts on one's strength. It foreshadows the "might makes right" ideology that the decepticons follow, and is a key part of their ideological characterization across continuities.

Instead of the narrative we often see in Transformers media were Optimus is idolized by the narrative for being more moderate and Megatron is villiainized for being radical (or so people often claim), it is instead Optimus who is rewarded and praised by the narrative for being radical, and Megatron who is villainized and punished by the narrative for holding potentially fascistic values.

I do agree with some criticism I've seen that the whole thing with killing Sentinel and D-16's final turn into villainy felt a bit rushed and more than a little cliche, but I also understand it both had a limited runtime and that it is ultimately a family film meant to be accessible to children. More importantly though, I think the movie set the groundwork early on that, no matter how this final act played out, D-16 was always going to turn to darkness, and Orion would not have been able to stop him.

Its perfectly tragic, the way all MegOp should be, while also feeling really well thought out from a thematic standpoint. I love it.

[rustic-sh4rkboy]

Ohh..tell me what you think about tfa Sentinel. I'm genuinely interested

I LOVE TFA SENTINEL!!!! hes just a silly lil goofy goober

honestly didnt care for him til tfone came out and i started obsessing over that sentinel 😭 but boy i do have thoughts now

TL;DR hes suuuch a prickly little bitch but hes MY prickly little bitch i love him so much

tfa sentinel is very abrasive and... outgoing. so to speak. the writers definitely did their job well in making sentinels whole personality "that one pompous coworker." the fandom hates him not because hes a morally wrong character that has committed many nefarious crimes, but because hes straight up a jerk. a jerk that makes viewers sympathize with optimus more, because theres definitely a lot of people with a sentinel prime in their life. thats efficient writing right there

i wouldve loved to see sentinel knocked down a peg or two, such a thing being the catalyst to potential character growth,, permanent character growth

i think sentinel has a hard time sympathizing with other people, which isnt necessarily his fault. seriously, get him a good therapist and wait like 50 years and youll start seeing some improvement with his attitude

i seriously have SO MUCH to say about sentinel, but i dont want this to be too hefty of a read so ill leave it at that :] i love sentinel hes my favorite little stinky wet cat

[mychlapci]

Im not gonna be able to participate in Celibacy week because im allowed to listen to music at work. So I put tfone onto my phone and listen to it on repeat all night , causing me to exude a constant aura of Desire and Desirous thoughts that the Kellogg centipede cannot even imagine penetrating. (And Im having intense tfone ratchet visions . Actually I do have one sfw headcanon which is that ratchet is way more competent than the cogged shithead doctors who talk down to him and treat him like [the Kellogg centipede begins keening loudly in distress])

proud to say i watched tfone yesterday and i completely ignored my boner. kept it perfectly contained. except for that one post about sentinel getting breastfed i mean what, no one said that. but i'm glad that your level of horniness is so high that the kellogg centipede can't get to you. is it possible to learn this power.

ANYWAYS, onto the star of this ask. cogless Ratchet !! beloved wife... i am very invested into the thought of Ratchet being a lowly medic down in the mines, cogless and meant to repair mining injuries, constantly looked down on by cogged bots because what, this little guy just welds up scratches all day, what's he know? i don't think he'd necessarily have any big fantasies about how he's going to "show them one day", but boy, once he gets his t-cog it's on sight. being a doctor in the mines means he's quick to react and extremely good under pressure, something that doctors who've, in turn, beeing doing delicate surgeries for fifty cycles, are not very good at. he'll be an exceptional millitary medic, him and all the other cogless doctors that worked with him...

mhmm, but also consider... cogless Ratchet always knowing that something is off. he's a good doctor, and sometimes when he sees bots' empty cog holes, or even his own, he feels like it's just off, maybe there's scratches or tiny little cuts or wiring that has been cut off. it looks like a wound. it makes him think.

[lets-try-some-writing]

Ohhh, salty asks? I'll dabble with 9, 14, and 19.

Most disliked character(s)? Why?

Sari, Russel & his Dad, and Elita-One.

I haaaaaaate Sari so much. I don't even like TFA that much, but I would have enjoyed it more if this little girl weren't present. She annoys me on a spiritual level. She does have a few moments where I vibe with her, but the annoyance overrides the comradery. I know some people will die on her hill, but I am not one of them and even her fascinating lore can't drag me from my hole in the ground.

Russel and his Dad are just annoying and it's not even their fault. They were part of a garbage show that disregarded and danced on the grave of TFP before spitting on it for good measure. It isn't THEM that bothers me necessarily, it's their characterization that murders me. I just can't enjoy them or their presence when they are treated as jokes or just get in the way.

As for Elita-One? I am genuinly sad I don't like her. I generally enjoy her in fandom and I LOVE G1 Elita with every fiber of my being. I can even appreciate Skybound Elita a great deal. But other canon versions of Elita? It's just painful. She's NEVER written well. Generally being too arrogant and stuck up for her own good (TFOne), not particularly notable (TFE), lowkey evil and not in a way I find appealing (IDW comics), or not even Elita (TFA). I just can't vibe with her even though I really really really want to.

Unpopular opinions about your fandom(s)?

This fandom is unreasonably sexual. Look, I totally get it. You love your blorbo. I love my blorbos too and I know that sexual themes/art/ideas have their place. Heck, I use the concept for comedic and angst purposes all the bloody time. But for heavens sake yall, we've got SO MUCH LORE and half the fandom is sitting over here drooling. When I use such themes, I tie it in with either a good story or unique lore. But the fandom just kinda... throws it around for funsies? Idk it just bothers me as a person who cares very deeply about things having meaning and design. Feels a lot like chugging a pixie stick when there's a ton of such themes getting thrown around. I would much prefer a more delicately devised art piece, personally.

The robots are hot, I KNOW. But goodness we've got so much else to play with here people. (Not saying this to rain on anyone's parade. Just my thoughts).

What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

Well, I suppose what I hate most would be the strange unspoken division in the fandom. Transformers, thank the stars, is a very unified fandom on almost every front. You might never run into the people I'm about to talk about. But there is a noticeable divide between two rather undefined factions. For the sake of this, I shall dub them the lore purists and the rabid fans. The lore purists get SO mad at everyone who doesn't agree with their takes, those who mess with the lore, or otherwise have views that don't match with canon content. On the opposite side of things, the rabid fans can be kind of unhinged and not in a good way at times. They can become quite vicious when it comes to other people's headcanons and preferences. Both sides fight each other and amongst themselves.

It's not particularly noticeable to newcomers, but I've seen more than a few people trying to fight each other over the net for being sympathetic toward a certain character or for having ideas and aus with 'problematic' content. Even I've been on the receiving end of the unhinged a few times for having sympathy for my fav war criminal. With that said, honestly its easy to avoid getting involved in these two sides to the fandom. Just do your thing and be polite and huzzah, everyone is really really nice.

[quibbs126]

I think I’m too influenced by other people’s opinions

I mean yeah, I know that, but I mean this specifically in the case of my current fixation, aka Transformers, and that I really don’t know what to think on it anymore

Not about whether it’s good or bad in general, but more how should the story and characters be interpreted, and what were poor decisions or not

Like for example, Megatron. I was thinking about making this its own post today, but it fits here. I feel like having my first two pieces of media I consume in this current dive into Transformers being Transformers One (where we see the tragic fall of D-16 and I’m really invested in him and Orion’s bond and just want to see them get back together, and also this version of him has done relatively very little so it’s a lot easier to redeem him) and then after that Transformers Earthspark (where we start out the series with redeemed Megatron and we almost always see him in a positive light, plus it’s the only non doomed megop) is the main reason why I’m so invested in Megatron as a character and want him to have redemption stories. Like I feel like if I started with another show, I might not feel this way. I might still appreciate him as a villain, I like him in Animated, but he would not be my (I think) assigned mess of a character I obsess over and want good things to happen to

Because it’s like, I want him to have a redemption story, I want to see him turn to the good side (and probably kiss Optimus idk. I would be open to other options if there’s others). But a part of me also recognizes that Megatron is definitely not the most deserving Decepticon of that title; Starscream at least deserves it more than him. And to top it off there’s the problem of him committing so many war crimes and atrocities that gets really hard to justify him getting any sort of happy ending that redemptions usually come with. TFOne Megs is like the one with the least amount of that problem, but it’s probably not going to become common

And also when I say this, I don’t mean I want it for every version of Megatron. I’m saying that when I try to make up stories or my own version of a continuity, this is what I want to do

Like it’s to the point where I’m trying to invent in my mind characters to be more evil than Megatron or be above him so that he can get that redemption, until I realize that what I’m doing would better fit another character. Megatron is supposed to that big bad evil, it’s literally what he’s here for

So I think that wanting this is a bad thing and I just shouldn’t do it. But then I also see other people who think the story of Megatron having a redemption is an interesting idea, meaning that it is something that has merit. So I don’t know now whether I should. Can you give Megatron a believable redemption story or not? And does it depend on whether you need to tweak him to polish out some of his big flaws?

Though it’s gotten to the point where upon reflection, I think my issue isn’t necessarily wanting it, it’s the way I want it as opposed to how it should be done. I think I’m gonna need to find more interpretations of redemption Megatron to really see how it should be done, because I know what I want probably isn’t the best for the story. As far as official media goes, I assume my best bet is IDW, since that’s the one that actually introduced the concept and showed the redemption. But even then, I wouldn’t know what’s considered a good version of this idea and what isn’t until someone tells me

Crap I spent a bit too long on this topic. I actually had a second one to mention. Well, since we’re here anyways, might as well

The other big point of contention for me is the matter of the origins of the Deception cause

Because personally, I like the idea of it starting out as a noble cause, and/or at least the idea of the Decepticons not being pure evil and more a group of Transformers with differing opinions and morals from the Autobots

But then you come to the issue that: they’re literally called Decepticons and they’re supposed to be the bad guys, no matter what sympathetic backstory you may give them. They only aren’t the bad guys when something else more evil shows up, and that’s usually only temporary

Like, to borrow words I heard elsewhere, how do you believe in your cause with a name like that? It’s so evil sounding, and how do you justify giving them a name like that? And for the second point, what does it say when these guys are ultimately supposed to be the villains?

And like I’ve seen people criticize the more modern backstories given to the Decepticons and by proxy Megatron, in part because they’re the villains. From what I understand, in Aligned, the Decepticon cause started from a genuine want by the lower class citizens for equal rights and a distaste for their genuinely absolutely corrupt government who didn’t care about them. It is essentially a worker’s revolution, and them being violent doesn’t necessarily make them evil, as we have historical proof that taking violent action has ultimately worked to change things for the better in our society (though it also isn’t always the solution, just that it has worked before). So what does it say when these people, at least later, become the objective villains of the story? And what does it say when the Autobots, the good guys of the story, weren’t largely made up of this group of people fighting for equal rights? Yes, Optimus agreed with their initial stance and worked with them because he genuinely believed in their cause, but he wasn’t a low class bot, Megatron was

Like I understand that criticism when it’s spelled out like that. And not to mention, it is a bit ridiculous trying to justify a name like Decepticons, just when you look at it on paper

If they had a more neutral sounding name, like the Autobots, we wouldn’t be in this situation. But it was the 80s and they needed an obvious bad guy name and we’re never going to get rid of it, so

But also I really think you’re losing something by just having the Decepticons be evil and nothing more, and their cause being nothing more than conquest and other evil things. But then where do you draw the line so you don’t go to the point where you’re questioning why they’re the bad guys? I just don’t know

I’m realizing now that these issues I’m bringing up are just things that probably require nuance if you want to execute them well. Maybe that’s the reason they confuse me; I have no moderation and can only go one extreme or the other, unless someone tells me what the correct balance is

But my point was, I have thoughts on how I want Transformers things to be done, but I don’t know what the correct way to do them actually is, probably because I listen to too many people with a bunch of different view points because I just want to see all sides of an argument

And now it’s left me unable to truly know what I think, because I just don’t know who’s right

I feel like maybe I just need to take a step back and just watch the shows without sticking too deep into the fandom to figure out my own personal opinions and what I’d want to do. But at the same time, I’m ass at binging these shows right now and I can’t not interact with the fandom, I need the content

[legs-like-jelly]

Hear me out. Not necessarily tickle related for the first one tho

Since G1 Soundwave technically doesn’t have actual emotions, I still feel like he would like to be near things he likes and avoid things he doesn’t. Kinda like ants! They don’t have full emotions like anger, sadness, love, but they can still feel. Idk just something I came up with today while on the bus 「(=^=)「

And the second thing. If G1 Soundwave was ever found out to be actually ticklish (even a little), I feel like he wouldn’t be able to hold back those noises at all. Ofc not anything like poking or prodding would get him to giggle/laugh, that would only prove to annoy him. But full on tickling? That will. I feel like he would try to stop it only to not know how to, because he’s never felt the need to make those noises until now. He would be thinking something like ‘why can’t I stop these noises?!’ or smt. Bc why would you know how to hold back something you’ve never felt?

Anyway that’s the end of my rant there, I just needed to tell someone :d

—🐜 anon

thank you ant anon for distracting me from tfone megop sadness with lee soundwave thoughts i will be in your debt i imagine soundwave has not ideas what to do with his hands so he's either holding them up by his hands or desperately holding onto his ler's arms trying to get themn off okay hear me out okay

[moustawott]

The movie’s final cut doesn’t necessarily contradict what Orion believes in the animatic imo, though maybe the writers overestimated the audience’s ability to read between the lines and their knowledge of politics and the judiciary system 😅 or maybe it was pacing/time constraints, or maybe it was corporate interference, we’ll never know

My analysis/thoughts under the cut:

Orion says a new society can’t begin with an execution and he’s right in a way: it only leads to fear and instability in the aftermath. + As many have noted, there’s this aspect of a cycle of violence: Sentinel kills the Primes and takes Megatronus’ T-Cog, D-16 does the same. If D had become leader instead of Sentinel, there’s noooooo way it would’ve gone well (and I’m not sure if Megatron would’ve ever been convinced to let anyone except him be the leader of their new society, he becomes a believer in the "might is right" philosophy after all)

Orion was also correct in believing that the peaceful solution should be prioritized: they wouldn’t have had anything to lose trying! And if using the recording didn’t work, then D-16 would’ve been justified

You also can’t have a single person be judge, jury, and executioner — that’s what D was trying to be — cuz that’s just autocracy, and Orion wanted to stop that (on top of trying to stop his best friend from completely losing himself). Sentinel was surrendering! He was all beaten up by D-16! He couldn’t actually harm anyone meaningfully at that point! The great majority of Iacon was against him now, and remember when Sentinel was trying to escape D-16? He was crawling away, he couldn’t fly or use any of his weapons!

I think there were a few writing decisions that went into cutting Orion’s lines:

Tighter pacing: the fact Orion and D don’t really have a quiet moment to unpack everything justifies D-16’s fall better. If D was given a chance to calm down, he couldn’t have been angry enough to drop Orion

Story intent: in the end, this isn’t political drama, it’s interpersonal drama. The politics of TFOne had to be put aside to focus on the drama between characters and their imperfections. I’m just glad TFOne gave us something that actually makes sense within TF lore as a whole! D-16 is sympathetic, but he’s also very wrong! He acts like a fascist; he takes advantage of societal injustice and people’s anger and directs this anger towards selfish goals! That’s how fascism rise every time! Orion Pax is naive, but he is right! He just needs to be better at choosing the right words and inspiring people! (My biggest pet peeve in the IDW continuity is Megatron having based politics, but ending up being a megalomaniac genocider. Hate that trope of justified "villains" and "good guys" maintaining the unjust system, TFOne makes it actually work by giving D-16 understandable reasons, but hella cringe politics lol)

Orion’s flaws: Orion still has room to grow. He couldn’t find the perfect words to explain everything to D-16, nor to calm him down, and that’s a mistake he’ll try to never repeat again. The cut lines are what Optimus would say, not Orion, not yet (I will still lament the loss of the most explicitly based Orion/Optimus we ever had, jakdlkajaj, gimme an MLK/Nelson Mandela-like Optimus that isn’t whitewashed to hell)

Again, we as an audience have hindsight and know the tragedy that’s coming, the characters can’t. Orion never could’ve expected D-16 becoming Megatron, how could he?? That’s his rules-following, hardworking best friend! And Orion wasn’t necessarily wrong to worry about exposing Sentinel first, they were being chased by the drones! And D-16 is a mature responsible bot, no? Orion can trust him to take care of himself

So we end up with this ambiguity in the final scene, and I’m not sure if I can call it good or bad, but it does make for some good conversation opener, especially about American attitudes towards vengeance + punishment = good justice system (cuz like, really, does the death sentence really have more benefits than restorative justice? Is the death sentence actually about long-term, concrete, societal good or actually about satisfying our personal resentment?)

I am so fucking VINDICATED

(From the movie’s draft script, link to the full animatic at the end of the post)

I’m so upset this movie couldn’t have been just a little more obvious about Orion’s beliefs, cuz the final version does look (at first glance) like Orion is playing out the trope “nooo, we can’t kill the fascist bad guy bc killing bad”

The only reason why I picked up on the writer’s og intentions was thanks to the way D-16 was built up: it’s very, very clear that he wants to kill Sentinel only for self-satisfaction and not true justice

I think the reasons so many have misunderstood that scene were:

A. The writer not being obvious enough with Orion who’s fine with Sentinel dying, he just doesn’t want D-16 to commit murder for self-satisfaction (the movie novelization and this animatic don’t have the same problem)

B. Americans love punishment in their justice system (and online “progressive” fandoms too, I can talk about this for hours lol). A major reason why death penalty still exists in the US is because of this kind of attitude where people will seek self-satisfaction and virtue signalling above true, restorative justice. This is why people support D-16’s way of thinking so much. But Orion is right: a functional—ideal—society can’t be executing people, everyone must have a chance for redemption, because if we draw a line between those who deserve and those who don’t, the line will always move in a way to fuck over some random unlucky people eventually

C. People are projecting too much IDW Megatron unto TFOne Megatron. Like, sure, IDW Megatron is based and Coptimus is cursed, but this ain’t the case in TFOne 😭 like at all 😭 D-16 is obviously meant to reflect right-wing thinking (he joins the High “might is right” Guard for fucks sake)

Blah blah something something poor literacy and people lacking the ability to infer/interpret stuff and needing everything spelled out, especially with movies where there’s not just textual info but also visual storytelling + pre-existing tropes that taint our perception of this story

[transingthoseformers]

I'm thinking about Optimus and Megatron having a secret affair during the war.

For angst, dare I say hurt/no comfort reasons

[transingthoseformers]

Megatron and Starscream engaging in kink is interesting to me because on one hand I do think they'd want to mutually benefit from doing certain things together

On the other hand I'm not sure either of them would have the proper trust in each other and they have so many hangups together that if a scene goes bad it might go very bad

[transingthoseformers]

Dtronus is hilarious but fitting

I mean I've been seeing the ship tag D-pax floating around so I thought it'd fit here too