#but its VERY relevant in p5

[235uranium]

if it was up to me p6 would actually just be connecting all of the previous persona games. like ik persona is supposed to be "episodic' in nature, but it would be nice to kinda... idk tie up the past 5 and then move onto new stories with a clean slate?

theres clearly a ton of interest in the fanbase for a crossover game to connect all of the lore- it's the primary reason people are begging for p5 arena. we want to see all these characters meet!

making it a main series game would give them actual time to explore a wider plot + they could reestablish philemon and nyarly as existing (and maybe explain how igor GOT KICKED OUT OF THE FUCKING VELVET ROOM????)

solidify the lore. wrap up p5r properly. and move onto p7 with a fresh slate.

[dear-ao3]

Can I ask for a translation on what happened in Vegas?

what didnt happen in vegas!

-carlos sainz ran over a drain cover that was not welded down 9 minutes into the first practice session. it ripped a hole through his car basically (he narrowly avoided getting royally and permanently fucked up by it) and he got a 10 place grid penalty for fixing said car

-toto wolff, the mercedes team principle, said very emphatically that carlos deserved this penalty. carlos did not in fact deserve this penalty because it was not remotely his fault.

-probably out of spite, carlos managed to finish the race above both mercedes cars

-back to practice 1, it was redflagged 9 minutes in after he crashed and it took nearly 7.5 hours for them to fix the track because they had to check all the other drain covers

-practice was already late to begin with and reportedly at 1am ish they kicked all the fans out who had bought tickets because it was "too late"

-tickets btw were over 1k USD

-practice two started sometime around 2am and didnt finish until nearly 4am

-yes, people were driving cars at over 200mph at 2 in the morning, jetlagged to hell and back. idc if you're a professional, that sounds dangerous

-the announcers were descending into madness the whole time and during practice two i think tried to talk about oceans 11 but fucked it up

-there was also the sphere. the sphere was relatively unhinged.

-the drivers didnt get back to their hotels until after the sun rose that day. and they had to race again that night

-oh also it was fucking freezing and when its freezing the cars don't work cause the tires don't warm up and the brakes don't warm up

-tires also warm up best on corners, high speed ones. the vegas track had mostly all low speed corners and really long straights. not ideal

-the pit lane exit was also smack in the middle of a really tight turn. which they would be exiting onto on cold tires with cold brakes.

-also the track looked like an upside down pig

-practice three was normal until the very end when alex albon crashed into the wall. no one was allowed to do practice starts because the session was red flagged and not resumed.

-the most notable thing to happen at qualifying was that both williams cars (which are basically tractors) managed to place p5 and p6 on the grid. especially interesting considering that logan sergeant has placed dead last in qualifying for the last several races.

-also both mclarens were at the bottom. this is not super relevant or particularly interesting but i was upset about it.

-ferrari went p1 (charles leclerc) and p2 (carlos sainz), but sainz had a 10 place grid penalty for fixing his car that had a literal hole through the bottom, so he started p12.

-weirdly, sir lewis hamilton and checo perez also started pretty far down the grid.

-anyway onto the race.

-there were so many safety cars. literally on the first lap the whole back half of the grid rammed into each other.

-then! terrifyingly! lando norris ran over a bump in the track on lap 3 or 4 i don't remember and spun several times before ramming into the wall. he sounded not ok on his radio but he got out of the car. eventually they ended up taking him to the hospital, he is quite fine but it was still a terrible crash

-his teammate, oscar piastri, seemly got possessed by someone or something, possibly lando himself, because he had a very impressive race until mclaren decided to use the worst tire strategy possible (as in, pit him in the last 10 laps to change his tires when this was largely avoidable by all accounts). he could have ended on the podium potentially if they hadn't fucked him up. still, he ended 10th and got the fastest lap and as a result the track record.

-there was also another episode of French Civil War at alpine when they told esteban ocon to stay behind his teammate, pierre gasley, and he said no !! and passed him for funzies

-charles leclerc also got possessed by something, possibly his own bad luck, because he managed to finish p2 after overtaking checo perez on the last lap.

-the same checo perez whos f1 career has been basically dead for half the season

-also lance stroll weirdly slayed

-despite starting high on the grid, both williams managed to finish out of the points

-surprisingly there were only 3 DNFs and 0 red flags

-this is surprising because of all the tire and brake issues that people thought there would be

-unsurprisingly max verstappen won. what was surprising was that he sang viva las vegas over his radio afterwards, especially surprising considering that he spent the whole weekend shitting on the race, saying that the track was terrible, he hated it, and that the fans should burn the place down for getting kicked out on practice 1 day and only getting a voucher in response

-related to that, the fans sued f1 over getting kicked out

-someone thought it was a good idea to put max charles and checo in the back of a rolls and film them driving to the podium. it was incredibly memey.

-there was definitely more that happened but this is all i can remember right now

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

A big thing of importance when attempting to predict or understand a plot point or character in a work of fiction is that you really have to approach it from what the story itself is trying to tell you.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but you really do need your starting point to be "what is the intention of this story? What is it trying to say?" Every story will have thematic elements that are core to its premise, and a lot of things will make sense more if you actively view them through this lens. You can't cast aside the intent of the story before you take the time to understand what the story is trying to do in the first place.

For instance, BSD has a knack for not killing off its characters, despite the violence of the world in which this story takes place. But BSD at its core is about survival and life, and particularly seeking a way to live even if your purpose and meaning and future are uncertain. It was created for people who need stories to live. This is why it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for them to kill off a bunch of characters, as that would conflict with the kind of story BSD is. I do not expect character death in this series, because unless there are some very specific circumstances (ie. Bram), it just wouldn't fit. Any death just isn't going to hold.

Dead Boy Detectives is extremely obvious in its theming - The good you do comes back around and will allow you to heal in turn. If you continue to be cruel to others, then you will only succeed in perpetuating that cycle, and become the toxic one in turn. This is the core of Crystal, Niko and Esther's story arcs in particular: the character who changes over the story, the character who exemplifies the themes, and the character who acts as the warning.

Themes are the connecting threads that help you understand why choices are made. It also really helps when trying to narrow down to a general idea of where something is going.

For one, the To the Moon/Sigcorp series is about things like memories, regrets, legacies, grief, and final moments before death. Due to this consistent theming, it really didn't come as a surprise to learn the major secret that one of the characters was hiding... or the kind of ending it's leading up to.

As another example, Persona 5 is about a lot of things: rebellion, anger against injustice, the failure of adults to protect the youth, etc., but more than anything I think, P5 is about building a support system after trauma; a support system which is a necessary crutch for people to get their feet back under them and learn how to heal so that they can find themselves and a way forwards again. But a support system doesn't just come to you - you have to trust in people, and let them help you. This is seen in all the characters' arcs, but is taken to extremes with both Futaba and Akechi. Futaba could not start to heal without choosing to allow people to help her. She stagnated in her own guilt and grief due to her isolation, and her decision to open herself up is made literal by a locked door in her heart that could only be opened if she chose to let them in. And, as a result, this running theme is how I knew, even during the worst of the traitor arc, that Akechi was going to end up complicated, yes, but also sympathetic. P5 is not subtle. We are told and shown again and again that this character had no one in his life to rely on, and was cast aside by society. But unfortunately, Akechi rebuffs any attempts to offer him help. As a result, he becomes more and more single-minded, strays further from what he truly seems to believe, and ultimately spirals into self-destruction.

Now we can start asking other questions, like "Was the story successful in what it tried to tell us? Did any of the themes conflict? Were thematically relevant threads left hanging?"

Going back to BSD, this is still a major issue I have with the prison arc. Objectively, the characters were in-character, and the logic holds (for BSD anyways lol). But thematically, it was unsatisfying - the intense setup of this arc made the audience expect much more in the way of story themes than was actually delivered.

This, to me, is where you get into "was the story good" without getting caught in the "well, I didn't like it/agree with it so it was bad".

And then there's where you come into it! Your initial reading of the themes of the story are also going to be shaped by your amount of practice in critical analysis, and also by your personal experiences and interpretations. This is where we get into things like "do I agree with what the story is trying to say" and "oh this was a missed opportunity to add in this little detail" or "objectively it was good, but it didn't really do it for me" or even "objectively it was bad, but something about it still makes me want to chew plaster". It's awesome and part of the joy of being in a community for these things. It's both limiting and lonely to see a story from only one perspective.

[mamthew]

Some thoughts on Metaphor: ReFantazio. I avoid spoilers for the most part.

It’s maybe impossible to overstate how much I love Persona 5. It’s my favorite game of all time, and directly started me down the path to being a radical. It’s got some flaws – many of which were fixed in its rerelease, Persona 5: Royal – but it’s such a fantastic package in terms of story, gameplay, art design, music, and thematic resonance that it’s hard to fault it for them. I’ve played and enjoyed subsequent P5 material, but none of them are nearly as devoted to a political message as the original, meaning that even though they’re all good, they ultimately fall short of what I love about the initial game.

Metaphor: ReFantazio is a 2024 RPG by a good number of the folks who made Persona 5, and you can immediately tell. It has a very similar art style, uses many of the same sound effects, has a similar battle system, and is built around the calendar/social links/social stats system that the Persona series is known for. It is essentially a Persona game, but set in a fantasy world rather than contemporary Japan, and without Persona’s emphasis on Jungian psychology and the tarot. It’s also thoughtfully political, but in a way that’s maybe less engrossing and blisteringly relevant than Persona 5. That said, what it does have to say is worth engaging with, as it uses its more traditional fantasy setting to comment on the ideological underpinnings of RPGs as a genre and games more broadly, as both an artistic medium and an industry.

In many ways, Metaphor is “Persona does Final Fantasy.” It’s clearly an homage to Final Fantasy at its core. It may have Persona 5’s battle system, but it’s got FFV’s job system, and it’s reworked the “one more” mechanic to feel more like the Brave/Default system from Bravely Default, or the Conditional Turn-Based system from Final Fantasy X. The job system is especially interesting. There are 14 basic jobs, with each job having 1-3 class change upgrades that unlock at specific Social Link levels with the job’s corresponding character. Every party member can use any job, but have very individualized stat spreads that make certain jobs more viable than others. For example, Strohl starts with the Warrior job, which hits hard and doesn’t do much else. He could use the Mage job, but his physical attack is like double his magic attack, so that would probably be a waste of his massive attack stat. That said, some players might opt to train him through Mage anyway, because at level 20, Mage gets a skill that increases MP by 15%, which they could equip to Warrior so he can use more of his big hits that spend MP. I, on the other hand, trained him in Pugilist, which has powerful physical moves that spend HP instead of MP. It’s a bit more risk/reward, but Strohl has considerably more HP to spend. And that’s one of the seven party members, each of which has their own unique stat spread.

That customizability is fun and rewarding, but limited by the use of a Persona calendar system. I’m less inclined to experiment and try training characters in weird directions when I only have ten in-game days to reach the end of the current dungeon and only have about an in-game year to reach the end of the game. Due to the FOMO brought on by the time constraints, I spent about eight hours just mindlessly bashing enemies in old dungeons in order to unlock all the jobs, which was pretty decidedly unfun, and I ultimately only got to play around with maybe half the fully upgraded jobs in the end. Persona’s time-management (which often translates to some occasionally brutal resource management in dungeons) has always ratcheted up the games’ tension and forced a level of deliberateness in decision-making. That works fine in Persona, but dampens the freedom of choice I associate with job systems. The calendar generally feels like a weird thing to keep. On one hand, the narrative and mechanics have been built around it, but on the other, part of what I enjoy about the calendar in Persona is the mundanity of it. The changing of the seasons, interspersed with real-world holidays, as experienced by a protagonist who is attending high school and therefore at the mercy of the calendar, all help to complement the familiar contemporary setting of a Persona game. In Metaphor, there are no seasons or holidays, the weeks have five days instead of seven, and the one-year cutoff for the action is arbitrarily enforced by a spell rather than by familiar societal norms, so the days tend to blend together. This calendar has all of the anxiety of Persona’s system with none of the novelty, and that’s not a great place to be in.

That said, what Metaphor loses in variety from the calendar it gains from its much larger world and its travel mechanics. Each chapter of Metaphor is set in a different city, and the characters must travel to each city using their gauntlet-runner, a land-based version of the classic Final Fantasy airship complete with a pilot who’s clearly Atlus’s take on a Cid. Each city has several dungeons, landmarks, and surrounding towns that the party can travel to and explore as side-jaunts to juggle as options within the time-management system. Some of these can take several in-game days to reach, but traveling has its own activities that raise social stats, craft items, or even develop social links with party members. In Persona 5, many of the side activities had their own unique content but wasted precious days to do, and travel-time feels like a way to alleviate some of that sense of waste, by limiting you to just “bedroom activities” like reading books, cooking, tending to plants, doing laundry, cleaning the floor, bathing, or inviting party members to hang out. You have to go to the extra dungeon either way, so you’re stuck on the gauntlet-runner either way, so you might as well raid the pantry, use the shower for a small Exp bonus, cook some fermented meat with Hulkenberg, do some laundry with Heismay, and then read a fantasy novel while you’re there. Much of the traveling system feels like an iteration on the central premise of Persona 5: Strikers, allowing the characters to go on a road trip and see a bunch of cities but without the dearth of things to do outside of dungeons from which Strikers suffered.

Metaphor is in most ways an improvement on Persona 5. It’s a much bigger game, with a more strategic battle system and prettier visuals. That said, its dungeons are generally a bit less interesting. They’re more straightforward, without the verticality that made especially Persona 5: Royal’s dungeons shine. They’re also less colorful, less surreal and – I guess a bit ironically – less metaphorical. That makes sense, since all the dungeons are actual locations within the game’s world and must therefore follow the world’s logic, but it’s weird infiltrating a giant fantasy airship and being struck by how much duller it is than Persona 5’s Diet building – a real-world place known for being boring. The music, too, is less interesting than Persona 5’s. It’s still technically solid, and there are certainly some bangers, but because the soundtrack is aping Final Fantasy in genre and instrument choices, it’s much less engaging than the acid-jazz of Persona 5. Metaphor also has less to do than Persona 5 or especially Royal. The game doesn't require that you grind up relationship points with social links, which cuts out a lot of the frustration of the social link system, but also means that there's no reason to take characters on dates or to the movies or to play darts. The world feels less varied because the activities are much more clearly laid out by which social stat they increase.

Both this game and P5 are punching way higher than their weight class in terms of budget and team size. They’re both essentially AA games that have been catapulted into the AAA space, and both are a generation or more behind in terms of actual graphical power. Both games made up for that discrepancy with stylish artistic flair, and while that papering over succeeds in both games, the stylizing of Metaphor feels less relevant to the game than with Persona 5. Persona 5’s intentional use of color and effects make it feel both pulpy and like agitprop material, which are two of its major artistic influences. Metaphor’s stylings, however, mostly make it feel like Persona 5, which clashes a bit with its more classical fantasy setting. I’ve seen a number of people complain about the game’s graphics being outdated, and I think the fact that it retreads so much stylistic ground is why the unimpressive graphics are more noticeable this time around, even though it’s much better graphically than any previous Atlus entry. The game’s reuse of many Persona sound effects aggravate this issue. Those sound effects feel punchy and contemporary, and work great in the context for which they were created: a game that turns rpg genre conventions on their heads by using a contemporary setting. Here, in a game that’s purposely leaning into more classic genre conventions, they instead feel lazy and out of place. The game clearly had great sound designers; there are plenty of new sound effects as well as the old. I wish they’d had those sound designers replace the reused sound effects as well. The game's localization, however, does set it apart from Persona 5. Metaphor is another JRPG to outsource its localization and English voice work to the UK, rather than the states. Most of the characters are voiced by UK voice actors, and they all do an outstanding job. Honestly, the weakest link voice-wise is the protagonist's voice, which was clearly directed to try to be fairly flat and unaffected. Still, I'm just so happy to have a voiced protagonist that I didn't mind all that much.

Metaphor opens by posing a question to the player: does a story have the power to change the world? I figured when I started the game that this question was referring to Persona 5, and the difficulties of creating a story with a specific, clear political message and having to deal with its audience agreeing with the message and longing for that change but not working to bring it about – or even worse, a chunk of its audience refusing to acknowledge it as political at all. While Metaphor was clearly inspired by that initial tension, it addresses a much broader question than that: why do video games – works in a medium that tends toward fairly radical political theming – seem to attract audiences that refuse to engage with their theming? Much of the game’s use of Final Fantasy elements is in service to this question, since Final Fantasy is sorta the seminal RPG. The game’s antagonist, whose name is frustratingly spelled Louis and pronounced Luis, represents in some ways the ideological underpinnings of Final Fantasy and is even designed to look like the FF1 Warrior of light, with long flowing white hair and curved horns. The main plot of the game involves a powerful spell that forces the kingdom to hold a democratic election. When the king is assassinated, his voice thunders down from the sky that the crown will go to whomever the most citizens believe in their hearts should be the next king in about a year’s time. The protagonist enters the race because he opposes the two frontrunners – Louis and the head of the very racist Sanctist church.

The protagonist often reads from a utopian novel and communes with the novel’s imprisoned author, a man named More, probably because he represents the demand that society improve and offer us more. The novel discusses the workings of an idealized version of our contemporary liberal democratic system, and all the party members fight in some way to try to realize that system. The novel itself was banned and all its copies burned, while More was arrested and sentenced to exile for writing it. While both the protagonist and Louis love the book, they had vastly different takeaways from it. The protagonist and his party see the book as calling for a society built around caring for its citizens, protecting and providing for those without the means to protect or provide for themselves. Louis, on the other hand, sees the book as calling for a society built on “true equality,” where all are forced to fend for themselves and only the strong survive. In both cases, the circumstances of one’s birth theoretically don’t matter, and leadership isn’t decided by a bloodline, which makes both visions look preferable to the world of the game: a heavily racially stratified monarchic theocracy. With the crown up for grabs, both characters have the opportunity to try to realize their visions of this utopian system, if they can convince the populace to back them.

This conflict is, deliberately, the conflict at the center of liberal democracy: is our system meant to be more individualistic or more collectivistic? Does the “liberal” mean that individuals must fend for themselves without a societal support structure? Does the “democracy” mean that the strongest must sacrifice the fruits of their advantages to provide for those without the same advantages? That the game takes the side of the whole over the part is unsurprising, given that it was made by the folks who made Persona 5. And hey, that’s the side I agree with more, so no skin off my back. But, using liberal democracy as the basis for its core theming makes Metaphor feel considerably less radical than Persona 5 did. Most of the oppressor/oppressed relationships in Metaphor are ones for which we have answers, which stands in stark contrast to the real-world-inspired conflicts in Persona 5, and when the characters look to the utopia of the novel for a solution, they’re looking to the answers we already have. And as Persona 5 already told us, those answers are insufficient.

That said, what feels backwards about the game’s theming becomes more interesting when we consider it instead as a metacommentary on the politics of RPGs. Louis, the villain who looks like the Ur-FF Protagonist, is an individualist to the extreme. His vision for a perfect world is one where all compete to live and only the strongest survive. That’s barbaric to most folks whose brains haven’t been poisoned by weird sectarian internet communities, but it’s also pretty much how RPGs operate: you keep fighting guys who are weaker than you to make yourself stronger until you’re the strongest, and then your character uses that strength to change the world the way they want. This is – crucially – also how this RPG operates. The protagonist might oppose Louis’s vision, but he still has to do so on Louis’s terms. It turns out that the conflict at the heart of liberal democracy is also the conflict at the heart of many power fantasies: we imagine ourselves being strong enough to make the world fairer, but in doing so, we engage with an individualistic framing. When looking at the metaphor of Metaphor, we can think of the protagonist as the story of a game and Louis as the narrative told through its mechanics; ultimately, what a story says is still constrained by what the game does. So the question of whether a story has the power to change the world is complicated by the introduction of the constraints placed upon a story by its medium. Why didn’t Persona 5 change the world? Metaphor implies it’s because its audience is primed to see its brand of power fantasy as apolitical – not even about the world to begin with.

I think increasingly often about a time I got into an argument with the admin of a Persona 5 Facebook meme page. He’d posted a meme complaining about people’s need to inject politics into Persona 5, an otherwise apolitical game. I found this absurd. The game in which you infiltrate the Japanese Diet building to stop a fascist from stealing an election is apolitical? The game where the personification of humanity’s tendency toward rebellion leads the party into battle to destroy the god of wealth at the center of a panopticon? It was beyond comprehension. But an art form that constrains most of its narratives to center around accruing power through conflict in order to elevate oneself as an individual has maybe inevitably attracted an audience that’s allergic to the idea that fiction can and usually does say something about the real world. And when I say “allergic,” I don’t simply mean “unwilling.” We’ve crossed into a political moment where the arbitrarily-defined level of “woke” in a piece of media determines whether a chunk of people will deign to engage with it at all, but based on my googling, Persona 5 is hilariously considered “not woke” (though Royal is simultaneously both “woke” and “anti-woke,” the remake of Persona 3 is too “woke” to bear, and Metaphor ReFantazio is under scrutiny but they seem to be leaning toward “not woke”). So the line in the sand is whether or not a game comments on the real world, but that line is drawn by people with shockingly low media literacy.

One element of the story that confused me clicked into place once I considered this angle. The game’s world is plagued by huge and brutal monsters called “humans.” In the game's world, the word “human” refers only to these monsters, while the sentient denizens of the game’s world call themselves “people,” or refer to themselves by their fantasy races. It’s bizarre to hear characters talk about “humans” and mean big weird giants that massacre towns and aren’t recognizably human at all. But when we consider this through the lens of a metacommentary on games, this choice comes to make sense. In an RPG, the player is a human roaming through a world of non-humans. They’re infinitely stronger than everyone around them, and in the end, only the human’s decisions matter. Everything exists to placate the human, and if the human refuses to engage with a story on its terms, then that pretty much destroys everything the story is trying to do. Those characters who exist solely to make the human feel something become fodder, to be ground up and discarded by the human. If we look at the relationship between art and audience from the perspective of the art, the audience becomes something like a kaiju, applying its own warped reading to the text, forcing it to submit to that reading. A story only gets to change the world if it first wins that battle with the human, and humans are getting increasingly combative. Obviously, there’s story reasons for the word choice that I won’t spoil here, but they align pretty nicely with my reading.

I really enjoyed Metaphor. It took me 110 hours, and I managed to complete all the social links, beat the extra boss, and unlock every class with the protagonist. A run that doesn't do those things probably could finish it in like 85-90 hours. Either way, it's shorter than Persona 5. I still prefer Persona 5; its politics are much sharper, obviously, but it also has a much bolder and more unique style. But anyone who really enjoys Persona or old-school Final Fantasies should give Metaphor a shot, since it's a pretty fascinating merging of the two, and it uses those associations to comment on the video game medium, the purpose of art in fomenting societal reform, and the shortcomings of liberal democracy. And if you haven't played either, it's a long, complex, standalone RPG in a new ip, which makes for a pretty good jumping-on point to Persona, from which it takes many of its mechanics.

[rontra]

How does failteacher Yuri interact with the greater plot of persona 5? I remember Toriumi mentioning 'some weird shit in 2010', but do the two of them have to deal with stuff like Kamoshida's change of heart and the principal's death?

the current policy is that unless something directly and immediately relevant comes up the answer is "it doesn't"

for 2 reasons. number one is that i don't feel like binding myself to the month-by-month timeline of p5-the-game in too much detail, because i'm lazy, and making my AU up as i go (lol). and the second reason is that observing the plot from a completely uninitiated unrelated POV is just not very interesting to me....... orz

one important thing about my failteacher AU is that it's a casual n sloppy style(!!) project that i do this way because it's fun (and as soon as i stop having fun i will stop making it). the vibe of creating it is just as important as the vibe of reading it. my worry is that committing too hard to ~The P5 Plot Is Happening Among Us~ would have me too distracted by logistics and timeline puzzles that aren't even relevant to the story i'm trying to tell, and suck the fun out of the project for me...

due to the year difference btween the 2 games, the plot of P3 did happen in 2009-2010 (the "weird shit" comment was in a doodle but yes it did happen and parts of it will be Main Comic Material later when relevant) (and i think its obvious enough from comics like #3 and general characterization that the Hermit 1-10 arc took place) (BUT MODIFIED IN VERY IMPORTANT PLACES. LOL) but obviously toriumi was an uninitiated & unrelated POV to that game so she doesn't really know that much about it outside of the parts that directly impacted her (which to be fair. are pretty serious)

p5 is much scarier because its looming on the horizon in FRONT of us and i hate being confined by a tangentially-related-at-best timeline. directly dealing with stuff like the fallout of palace 1 is a MAYBE? but ONLY because there are tangible Relevant consequences for -us- (more scrutiny placed on shujin teachers -> ms chouno gets on kawakami's ass, etc)

im gonna be real withyou i didnt even remember the principal dies. MDHNBFGB sorry to this man

all in all its just like. 99% of the plot of p5 is stuff these people are not privy to (kawakami's % is removed due to her no longer being joker's confidant thanks to hermit meddling) + committing to that timeline too hard would be abrasive to the comic + im much more versed in p3 minutiae anyway (especially later on in the p5 year). so its kind of like. well. just try not to Expect anything too major xD

if smthg catches my interest and i can work with it to make an interesting development, sure. but in the end its like why would i risk binding myself to specific points of a timeline and incurring Untold Rammys when i could simply not do that to myself. you know 😭

HOWEVER. FOR UNRELATED REASONS THAT ARE IMPORTANT BUT MAY OR MAY NOT PAY DIVIDENDS LATER (<- what did he mean by this?) it is seeming INCREASINGLY LIKELY that we might in fact currently be in the autumn -before- p5, meaning joker enrolls come spring in a few months and the game starts then.

^this paragraph directly contradicts everything above it but its fine. i have my reasons. just don't hold me to it TOO closely. i don't want to commit to a timeline just to be boxed in by unforeseen consequences later. but if you were curious there is a quiet notion in the background that says the plot of p5 proper hasn't started yet.

it's a "soft fuzzy timeline" but that's Secretly where we're at in it . kawakami bitching about her awful new student come April <3

So Perhaps Time Will Tell. if they're still doing this shit come May maybe i get to blow kamoshida up or whatever

[theminecraftbee]

For anyone looking to make their own Persona AUs, the Shin Megami Tensei wiki is honestly one of the better places to research the recurring tropes of various social links (ie, the Magician typically being the Protagonist's first male friend, the Justice typically being prone to anger). Do note that because of the nature of the Persona and SMT franchises you'll find potentially triggering content, so do tread lightly!

yes, very true! the wiki is SUPER HELPFUL in that regard!

and this is a good time to bring up actually: if my talking about persona has made you interested in playing, yay! they’re super cool and fun games! HOWEVER, they have some pretty big content warnings on them. (here the content warnings are for p3/p4/p5; I would be shocked if these themes aren’t in p1/p2, but I haven’t played those.)

all three games have at least some mentions/relevant sexual assault

all three games have scenes of severe bullying

all three games discuss suicide

all three games have death, including major character death, as a theme, with persona 3 having death be its MAIN theme.

all three games have some elements of institutionalized abuse as part of their story

familial/child abuse is also in at least one social link in all three games, and is a major plot point in at least p3 and p5.

mental health in general is a major theme of all three games.

all three games have some element of unreality as a theme.

additionally, while the above are the things I think atlus would say they intentionally put in as heavy themes, persona also has some… “jokes”… that it is irresponsible to make a recommendation without mentioning.

atlus tends to use the “predatory gay man” and “predatory trans woman” bit for laughs. yes, I’m sorry, in all three games, although I was pleasantly surprised to see they’d actually removed that from persona 3 in p3 reload! but it’s in one scene in p5, and in p4 it’s… complicated. one of the lead characters is gay, and part of his character arc is about internalized homophobia. however, another character will make statements like he’s scared to share a tent with him, which is never treated as justified but IS treated as a “joke”, on account of the character doing the homophobia being a comic relief character. additionally, naoto’s character arc can easily be read as transphobic (as naoto needing to accept being a woman rather than a man), although I know different people have different reactions to this arc. p4 is my favorite but it is NOT a recommendation I give without content warnings for a reason.

also, while p4 as a game is well aware of the amount of violence against women in it and the bad guy who does it is a nihilist and a loser, it is a major plot point, and it’s not always treated with grace.

also, all three games notoriously have at least one “comedy relief” scene of the guys picking up women and honestly it’s normally more like, anime cringe than actually misogynistic but it feels like I should bring it up?

also in both p3 and p5 there are social links that can lead to you flirting with your teacher. yeah. it’s avoidable but it’s sure there.

overall: REALLY GOOD GAMES, and when the writing is good in them it’s REALLY GOOD. they’re also consistently games that people who otherwise wouldn’t be into an 100-hour jrpgs end up realizing why people like the genre with! but they are ALSO games where the content warnings here are warranted!

[thirdmagic]

yesterday i finished reading a fic that left me emotionally devastated and in tears when i finished (a p5 akeshu postcanon fic because thats the mood rn) and it was genuinely on the level of like. real professional published writing i was utterly shooketh and destroyed by it. and i thought that. and instantly thought of how it is a story that would never ever ever work as a novel and could not exist or function outside of the fanficiton context. because not only is it postcanon meaning it doesnt work at all if you dont know all the relevant events of an entire completed existing work of fiction, you really do kinda need to be an shuake person already bc we kind a have a shared ship subfandom and our own headcanons of their relationship and the dynamics of what its like as a romance. and also a lot of what makes the fic so good is the specific goro characterization that is lost without the og canon context.

anyway not sure where i'm going with this im actually generally not really against the serial numbers filed off practice for fanfic to novel like, in theory, yknow. it really is a morally gray area and its messy, but i get it. you pour hours of your life into making something, it is well received, many people tell you it holds up to the quality level of published writing, why not make that effort also help you support yourself, like if you can turn a labor of love into a labor that gets treated as labor that seems fair. but also maybe you should really only do that in cases of AUs where a lot of it really is your own original ideas and the canon is only a vague baseline and it can actually be divorced from its original context. because like yeah there really is fanfic that is genuinely that good and yet it needs to stay fanwork because thats the medium and its deeply entrenched in that medium. and also yknow even in cases of extreme aus or something thats very original there is still the inherent Putting Your Fave In Situation draw inherent to fanfic so you ought to consider how much losing that will also take away from your story. like in theory nothing wrong with that it can work but it has to be a very specific kinda fanfic that most fanfics are not.

[princedetectives]

P4G Persona Mythos

DISCLAIMER: i started writing this post forever ago and kinda abandoned it halfway through, but i figured i'd post what i did write. so enjoy this unfinished summary!

hi! i'm doing a small dive on the stories all the party members' personas in persona 4 golden; most of them are based on japanese mythology; i'm reading Medea, which reminds me of chidori p3 and peaked my interest in this kind of stuff drastically. because these figures were chosen for each character for a reason! they all link back in different ways.

this will not be extremely detailed. just a bunch of surface-level facts im putting together for fun, and trimming a lot that isnt as related to the characters. look into it if youre interested!! i also highly recommend Hiding in Private's detailed analysis that i actually haven't watched yet but the rest of their p4 content is good so i definitely plan on it

each of the big 3 persona games have an overarching theme to their main characters' initial personas; p3 is greek mythology, p4 is japanese mythology, and p5 is popular historical/fictional figures (usually thieves).

as a rule of thumb, the name suffix no-okami means Great God. it'll pop up a few times! as another rule of thumb, a character's first persona will typically be a less important figure, awakening into one better-known.

since a lot of these myths are linked, sometimes other characters' personas pop up in relation to another! as such, i'll color code these names when this happens.

yosuke - chie - yukiko - naoto - [protag]

Yu Narukami (Protagonist)

Izanagi (Initial) - izanagi is an extremely important figure in japanese mythology, being its creator figure. he and izanami (yes that one!) married. in some sources it's said that they raise the japanese islands from the sea and in others it's said izanami gave birth to them. either way, they brought life to earth, having many diety children. one of their children, the flame god, kills izanami and sends izanagi into despair.

to bring her back, he goes into the land of the dead. he finds her and izanami makes him promise not to look at her, concealing herself in darkness. she explains that she cannot return; annoyed, izanagi breaks the promise and lights a fire (some sources say that his comb is lit here - you may remember a bamboo comb if you ever did marie's social link. yes, this is what it refers to!) and finds the truth. izanami is nothing but a rotting corpse. we see this reflected in the phases of her boss fight in-game.

enraged, izanami chases him off. in other sources, this is where he uses his comb; he turns it into grapes and bamboo shoots that his pursuers eat. he locks her in the underworld, knowing she'd destroy the world if let free. here, izanami curses him, promising to kill a 1,000 people each day; izanagi shoots back by promising 1,500 people would be born each day. she becomes Yomotsugami, the goddess of Yomi (this land of the dead).

to cleanse himself from his visit, he bathes; as he does so, very important deities are born, called the Three Precious Children. these are Amaterasu from his left eye and Susano-o from his nose. (Tsukuyomi is also born from his right eye but he holds no relevance to persona.) the world is split between them, each child given the heavens, the seas, and the night respectively. in other versions, the three of them are born when izanagi looks into a bronze mirror; Amaterasu from the mirror in his right hand, Tsukoyomi from the mirror in his left, and Susano-o when he tilts his head to the side. for convenience's sake i'll only refer to the first, more popular explanation.

this will probably be the longest description in this post (i hope). he is just that important to the mythology. very fitting for the protagonist! and it puts a whole new light to the final boss fight.

Izanagi-no-Mikoto (Ultimate) - another way to refer to izanagi, with more respect. not much to say about this one.

Yosuke Hanamura

Jiraiya (Initial) - protagonist of a japanese folk tale. it's a ten-book series so i won't go too far into detail here; you can read the whole plot summary on its wikipedia page. very basically, he's a cunning samurai and bandit that manages to achieve great feats like escaping from jail, assisting revenge plots, and killing a giant snake.

jiraiya befriends the immortal Toad Ascetic (which is probably where the theming of his shadow boss originates!) thanks to its admiration of jiraiya's loyalty, despite his history as a criminal.

Susano-o (Awakened) - the powerful diety of storms, seas, harvest, and love, and one of the Three Precious Children, son of [Izanagi] and younger brother of Amaterasu, born when the former washed his nose. his name literally translating to Impetuous Male, he was appointed to rule the seas and was promptly banished from the heavens by [Izanagi] because he just would not stop whining about how much he missed his mother* and did not do his job, causing the waters to dry up. personally, i draw a link to yosuke here based on his moving to inaba.

*(i honestly can't figure out who she is? izanami didn't help with the Three Precious Children, idk. in some versions of the story she did, so it's most likely her.)

before he left the heavens, he went to wish his sister farewell. untrusting of him, she dresses as a man in armor to see him, and he challenges her to prove his trustworthiness. they both create dieties by chewing up and spitting out an items the other possesses; Amaterasu creates three, and Susano-o creates five. Amaterasu, though, argues that since it was her item he used, the five deities were hers, dubbing herself the victor. enraged by this, Susano-o throws a fit, destroying her fields, flaying a heavenly horse, and killing a weaving maiden. this causes him to be banished again while a distraught Amaterasu hides away, coating the world in darkness temporarily.

now actually banished from the heavens, he finds an elderly couple that tells him their woes about how seven out of eight of their kids had been eaten by the serpent Yamata no Orochi (a persona in the games, by the way! you may remember it as a miniboss in p5's ship palace) and he agrees to help out, but only if he can marry their last daughter, Kushinadahime. he succeeds, slaying it by turning kushinadahime into a comb to protect her and getting yamato no orochi drunk. from its corpse, he uncovered the powerful sword Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi, which is eventually passed down to Yamato Takeru.

there is much much more about him, he's very important, but i'd like to keep this from being a complete essay if possible - read more if youre interested!

Takehaya Susano-o (Ultimate) - another name for Susano-o. not much to say here!

Chie Satonaka

Tomoe (Initial) - most likely based on Tomoe Gonzen (wherein Gonzen is an honorific), a samurai in japanese history, esteemed for winning many battles, being very skilled with many weapons and horses, beheading several. she once led 300 warriors against an enemy's 2,000 and came out victorious. her gender increased fear of her, most fleeing to avoid the humiliation of being defeated by a woman.

most actual facts about her are unknown. as such, she's more of a legendary figure than a historical one.

Suzuka Gongen (Awakened) - another figure in folklore with many unknown traits, suzuka gongen is presented as many things, including a thief, a divine being, or an oni. i, um. expected to write more here but there genuinely isn't much information about her. chie's personas are the mysterious type, i guess? if anyone can find information about her please let me know i'm so interested

Haraedo-no-Okami (Ultimate) - same case as above. from what i can tell, this term refers to many gods, the Three Precious Children specifically (Susano-o, Amaterasu). a harae is a ritual of purification, and a haraedo is where those take place. chie seems to be a weird case just in general.

Naoto Shirogane

Sukuna-Hikona (Initial) - a diety of healing, sake, magic, etc. he's notable for being so small he fell out of his mothers fingers. so probably a few inches. (which is pretty fitting LOL) it's often not believed that he is such an important diety because of how small he is. also notable for being said to create cures to a lot of illnesses despite the fact naoto learns no healing spells. he's often paired with the diety Ōkuninushi, who is also a persona but never relevant in-game.

Yamato-Takeru (Awakened) - a japanese legendary prince(!) who killed his twin brother and was exiled by his father, the king, out of fear. he went to his aunt for help; she is Yamatohime-no-Mikoto, priestess of Amaterasu, and she lent him a holy sword which Susano-o won in battle, which helped him in many sticky situations - it could control the wind. one of his battles was won by cross-dressing as a maid (you can see how this links back). he died thanks to hubris, not taking his sword with him into battle, and it is said his soul turned into a white bird/plover and flew away/disappeared. this, along with his ability to control wind, might be the reason he's depicted as flying in Persona. read more

(completely unrelated, but i think it's a very neat coincidence that yamato-takeru's persona design is remniscent of akechi's phantom thief outfit. i like to think this is intentional)

Yamato Sumeragi (Ultimate) - this isn't actually an individual diety. sumeragi is a epithet indicating royalty. so, this basically means "the royal yamato". fitting!

--- OTHERS

under the cut, i'll continue this post for non-party members, with a LOT of endgame spoilers, including golden content, and a spoiler for persona 4 arena. beware!

Marie

Kusumi-no-Okami (True Identity) - honestly? researching this one really stumped me. there's no english-translated direct link to kusumi-no-okami. (which was kinda annoying, because for literally every single other god there was. consistency, persona 4, please!!) maybe it was just translated differently; her untranslated name is 熊野久須毘命, which does directly correlate:

kusumi-no-okami is almost definitely based on the god kumano-kusubi. kumano-kusubi was born from the diety-creating contest Susano-o and Amaterasu had, the latter creating him. other than that, there isn't much info on him that i can find. it's a bit unsatisfying of a link, being so minor and male (which is strange - the genders typically line up), but there's nobody else it could be. i considered the god Kushinadahime, Susano-o's wife, but the only link there is the fact that she's turned into a comb, which is already linked to [Izanagi's] comb, so it doesn't make much sense. oh well!

this is another design i love, by the way. it feels directly linked to izanami, and by extension, [Izanagi]. i want to take a second to appreciate all three, their shared motifs showing they're clearly linked. in this case, specifically with izanami's boss forms, because WOW, they share a LOT. the transition from white robes hiding red (izanami phase 1 -> phase 2, marie pre-fight -> kusumi-no-okami), the cross hanging below the waist, to name a couple examples. it's so cool!! these are some of my favorite designs in the game.

but to conclude: she isn't as directly linked to the mythos like the others. what's really important is that bamboo comb, and the in-game explanation of her being a part of izanami.

speaking of...

Izanami

i already explained her main story during the [Izanagi] section, so i'll try to keep this short (and probably fail - she's very important.)

her palace in-game, Yomotsu Hirasaka, is the stretch directly between the land of the dead (Yomi) and the living world in japanese mythology. this fits her, considering it's where [Izanagi] imprisoned her and where she became the goddess of the land of the dead.

"General Teddie" (P4A)

Hinokagatsuchi (True Identity) - i have not played any of the P4 spinoffs so this will definitely be brief, but i discovered it while looking into Izanami and thought it was extremely cool. hinokagatsuchi is the flame god son of izanami that killed her by burning her, throwing her and [Izanagi's] whole "divorce" into motion. [Izanagi] responded by immediately cutting his body into 8 pieces out of grief, becoming 8 volcanoes. his birth marked the beginning of death. briefly scanning his SMT wiki page, it looks like his goal is to end the world or something, which fits. IDK it's up to you here to link him to the game LOL

[arcplaysgames]

the plant's plastic, isn't it

yeah the plant is plastic

can't a boy and his cat just have a fucking summer vacation without being locked in a dream panopticon

its nice to see you girl but where the fuck is igor, in my recollection when igor has not been around, shit has been Fucked.

(I assume they couldn't get the VA for this gig, but also: i love Igor? yeah.)

It's fucking Zuckerberg, Reverie, come on. You shouldn't have installed that spyware shit on your phone!!!!

i'm gonna be real, the textures are NOT fantastic in this game, lmao. I am gonna peek at settings later. the aliases need some more anti juice.

there's a statue there?????

/googles

oh huh i.......... never noticed that. i just noticed the pretty trees. whoops. i'm a bad tourist.

Rather than directing us where we need to go to get the camping shit, the shitty AI is like "hey INSTEAD I am going to direct you to an idol event nearby" this thing is atrocious and we should uninstall it and go back to mapquest

also, I have made an Executive Decision. I am resetting my emotions on Ryuji to zero. I am taking my hatred and ire and all the times he made me uncomfortable as the player of the video game, and I'm putting them all into a box and putting those emotions away. I am going to give Ryuji Persona5Strikers another shot to not be a contemptuous little shitheel I want to eject from the story.

Mostly because his voice actor is doing such good work and I would like to like Ryuji.

But if he dehumanizes or sidelines Morgana, the deal is off, okay? Okay.

ANYWAY, Ryuji is like, hyped for this instagram girl.

Reverie only hangs out in coffee shops that have oat milk and attends shows for bands you've never heard of, he doesn't care about influencers.

OH WOW OKAY

Alice Hiiragi.... Hiiragi......... why the fuck is that familiar..............

oh, Hiiragi was the Enka singer who was married to Namatame in Persona 4 before the scandal went down. I wonder if that's relevant or just a coincidence.

oh okay so something screwy is going on and she's going to, like, kidnap all the people who have cards, or something? is she the white rabbit?

lmao no she actually references the white rabbit later. okay. i DO like her theme and vibe a whole lot, even if she is giving heavy Acid Trip Pastel Tim Burton Bad Guy energy. But Wonderland is honestly a very cool foundation for a neat villain, so I'm cool with that.

thanks, they're fake so everyone thinks i'm a soft boy when really i'm more punk rock than iggy pop at a ramones concert. hi.

I appreciate the consistency, Morgana, lmao.

uh "Keyword"?????

oh my god EMMA is just a reskinned Metanav fffffff

YOU KNOW WHAT reverie i am blaming you for this. You should have informed Morgana that you had a dream in the Velvet Room, since Morgana literally was born there and it might've clued him in to "oh hey maybe shit is going down" instead of being blissfully oblivious in vakittycation mode like a chump.

huh the anime cutscenes look way better in this game than in P5R actually. dunno why.

BUT YEP IT SEEMS ALICE HAS A PALACE. the Cognitive World is back.

oh okay that seems bad. so everyone who friended Alice with the EMMAnav is getting their hearts torn out???? what does that mean exactly? it seems bad. people need their hearts or weird shit happens, either Apathy Syndrome or having their cognition rebooted like in P5.

I am Concerned.

oh my god what is Happening there is so much on my screen right now

i think i might be bad at this oh dear

the first move Reverie learns is a pole dance, though, so I'm pretty psyched for that. maybe this will be the game where Reverie finally gets to follow his dreams and wear a skirt.

everyone is off their game at being a Thief i see

me IRL out loud: oh my god i love you

WHAT A FUCKING LOOK THAT'S AMAZING

i am sad she is probably just the first arc villain because WOW i am DIGGING this. god that FLAMINGO HEAD STAFF this is such High Kitsch, it's giving me everything.

asklfjds;af /laughing hysterically to self

okay persona 5 strikers we are starting on some high notes huh

reverie are you sure you aren't dreaming, man, this feels like a dream you might've had except the person stepping on you in stilettos would be a mean boy.

maybe that's Reverie's type. bisexual but mean-attracted.

aaaaaargh my Odin is outta battery, i gotta recharge it.

BUT SO FAR besides me fucking sucking at the gameplay THIS IS A GOOD START.

[clefclefairy]

for the fanfic ask game! 💖🌝🧠

💖 What do you like most about your own writing? -I am and always have been very good at dialogue and simile. It is so fun to just write characters going back and forth and back and forth and coming up with points of comparison that are evocative and connect without always being readily apparent. also I'm damn good at writing porn and that's a SKILL, baby!

🌝 Who is one character you haven’t yet written for that you would like to?: someday im gonna write that goddamn p5 fic about akechi's palace "oh boohoo you and everyone else" no shut the fuck up i understand that little freak and also the history of film and television better than anyone in this fandom not a single person has ever done it the way I've planned to do it and someday I will get to it. that bitch is every dead blonde in hollywood and i am transgenderfying them. also I'd like to write something for edelgard. can you tell i have a type and its "discourse bait bitches"

🧠 What’s an idea you have that you can’t quite call a WIP yet?

I have been kicking around this bsd fanfic concept? for a little while? largely because i think it would be TREMENDOUSLY funny to make anne rice an actual character in a fanfic. complete that circle! also i would love to write akutagawa i love him. digs my teeth into him and shakes him back and forth veryveryfast. the honest answer is aaaaugh ive been moving and new full time job and so fucking tired but ive got shonen anime superpowers for like 15 of my favorite authors and some narratively relevant guys so im basically halfway there by bsd plot standards.

[greywindys]

Weeb anon returns :'D : Samurai Flamenco wedding suit cards in the spinoff app is probably the most infamous example, but there was also Lucky Star (wedding scenario official art), I think Hibike Euphonium and a couple more yuri anime I'm not caught up on (girls in wedding dresses are a lot more popular, wonder why :P ), Kaworu and Shinji from Evangelion had wedding ring merch and wedding outfits for merch… I'm sure there's more of it though, Japan is always on top of its subtle fanservice merch.

Interesting what you're saying though! Again, might just be me coping, but I honestly feel like Jamie and Damon could crack at some point, if only to spite bigots, since the world is pretty ugly these days and they're punks at heart (not the correct technical term… but y'kno what I mean lol). Kinda like MCR used to make out on stage just to piss off some crowds. I think their perspective has definitely shifted over the years, especially since they're getting a lot of younger LGBTQ fans and they know it. Damon's out there dancing with a pride flag, singing "are you tranz like me?" and kissing Seye in all fairness haha. But they probably don't want to undermine 20 years' worth of work and ending up getting asked about 2doc every interview or sideline Noodle and Russ even more than they already are. I dunno, don't wanna play a mind reader. TLDR: I'm not starry-eyed thinking it'll ever happen, but I see a small possibility of them being fine with it now more than ever, whereas there was no chance a few years ago.

Ahhh okay! I'm learning a lot here. I'm very basic with my anime/manga consumption and really haven't ventured out of the shonen genre....ever idt lol. Up until recently I had only read or watched 4 different series. Thanks for sharing what you know!

I guess I'm skeptical of them not because I think they're uncomfortable with the idea, but moreso because I don't think they care enough about really developing the lore and characters. I also don't think the ship aligns with either of their personal, for lack of a better word, "headcanons" about 2D and Murdoc. Of the two, I think Jamie would be more likely to go, "fuck it" and let the writers do whatever. He already kind of does this - since P4, it's been the writers who have been the source of all the 2Doc hints we get in interviews, tiktoks, etc. Afaik, Jamie isn't involved in that.

Damon, as far as I know, doesn't seem to have any semblence of shipper vision. During P5, he said in an interview that 2D was happy Murdoc was in jail, and wanted him to stay there forever haha. And most recently, if I remember correctly, he said he didn't care about the PR side of Gorillaz at all, which I assume included the character interviews, lore updates via social media etc.. All of which he is entitled to feel! But I bring them up to support my impression that he isn't a shipper, and I wouldn't expect him to go to bat for 2Doc if he wanted to make a statement. But I might have missed some things, so if you or anyone reading this knows of any counter-evidence, I'm open to hearing it.

And that's true that canon 2Doc would probably be the final nail in the coffin for Russel and Noodle's relevance. And that would be a bummer, ngl. I'd feel bad for my friends who are fans of them.

That all being said, I think you bring up some good point, and ia that Jamon are both supportive of the fans and LGBT community, and are comfortable being open about that. But does that overlap with their respective interpretations of 2D and Murdoc? Idk. I think if I was placing a bet, I'd put money on Jamie giving Noodle a girlfriend before any ship between the guys. But my main theory is that management will eventually see that 2Doc is popular and accepted by enough of the fandom that it will help them trend lol. But I'm also not expecting anything...but it's fun to conjecture about.

We'll see how this post has aged after 20 years 🤣

[arkus-rhapsode]

My Thoughts of FE Three Hopes

Wow, Arkus talking about 3H? What is this? 2018? Also talking about FE3H, I must have a death wish.

So before I start even talking I really want to put this disclaimer out here, especially when talking about the divisive nature of 3H, these are my OPINIONS. This is not a objective analysis of the game nor am I am claiming it to be. These are the thoughts I had playing this game. If you enjoyed it, good. If you didn't, that Is also good. You do not have to agree with me, but I am asking for people to be respectful if they want to engage with this. And if you do agree with me, please do not use what I say as an excuse to attack people with other opinions. I am not trying to personally attack or offend you if you like this game/character/plot point. This is my opinion of a piece of media. There is plenty of opinions of this game on the internet, all I am doing is adding my thoughts to the conversation.

Anyway, people might now I am generally more middling on 3H nowadays. I think its greatest strength was its character writing and its willingness to try different things even if I wasn’t a fan of them like the time management aspect. But I felt the social sim aspect and developmental issues behind the scenes resulted in a much uneven game and at times unfinished project. I’ve also looked back and realized a lot of its politics are not that great. Like the strength of the narrative is the character conflict, that you have these three forces who all want what is best for people like them with crests, and its very compelling drama where you see how much they care about each other, but just can’t agree. But step back from the context of the conflict, the issues aren’t really crests or even the church, but rather the feudalist system which is never really addressed in a major way (And we know you can be a rich noble without a crest). With most of the plot centering around a lot of people who are nobles. Heck, you have actual subjugated and colonized people and most of their plots are either treated as backstory or something to be resolved in their character endings (Even Claude and his anti racism isn’t that relevant in comparison to the strife of the crest bearers and their place in Fodlan). While I think characters like Dedue and Petra are good, the story of 3H is not their story. Like every ending still seems to maintain the system with slight alterations, the thing that’s changed the most is who is calling all the shots in Fodlan. Which isn’t uncommon for many FE’s that maintain a simple “The good lord is the good one to rule”, but given 3H attempts to ask more nuanced questions, it feels like it the political aspect is much more undercooked. Which sucks because anytime discourse about 3H happens it boils down to: “Church bad! Church good! Fascist! Not fascist!” when there is an actual discussion to be had about the issues of the internal politics of the game and how it relates to the status quo. But again, when it focuses on CHARACTERS the 3H story is very good.

But hey, now we have Three Hopes! A musou style game that is an alternate take of the 3H world with loads of extra content! Surely this will be able to scotch tape the issues with the original while also providing another three completely separate routes that are all satisfying on their own, right?

Well... not really.

Look, I know I’ve lost people when I said that, but from what I have seen, I think a lot of people wanted Three Hopes to be, Fodlan: The Definitive Edition. Give the people Three House with all the stuff it missed out. Like how Persona Royal is the definitive way to play P5 which not only improved the story in an organic way, but still let you experience P5 as it was. But 3Hopes isn’t that. 3Hopes is a completely alternate universe, with honestly so much variations, I would say trying to apply logic and revelations from Hopes and retrofit it to houses just clashes too much and doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I see a lot of people try to apply stuff learned about in Hopes as being relevant to Houses, but I disagree with that. I feel like knowing about this in Hopes doesn’t retroactively fix the problems of Houses, and I feel some character are almost completely different so the application of this Hopes characters ideas and thoughts are relevant to the Houses version isn’t really fair. Overall, if you are just here for another game with the Fodlan kids though, I get why this has its appeal and its easily the better FE Musou while integrating more FE elements. But it is a spin-off and I am treating it as such.

Okay if you are still sticking around to listen to me ramble after that, let me just get positives I liked about the game out of the way first.

From a story standpoint, I like that this game is willing to fill in stuff from 3H that went either on addressed or was flat out ignored. Shez is better than Byleth in everyday and their relationship with Arval feels far more genuine than Byleth and Sothis. Yes their design is very “OC do not steal” but honestly, I prefer your MC to just be a mercenary that got made a student and not a teacher.

In terms of routes, I will touch on some subjects later, but I actually do believe 3Hopes did manage to make Edelgard in particular more compelling, by actually showing her weeding out the conspiracy in the Empire and centralizing her power rather than it being all off screen, as well as actually allowing her to do more dubious acts when wartime came which was one of my biggest issues with Crimson Flower as a whole as it was an antagonist route where they didn’t do a lot of the actually pretty bad stuff they did in other routes like making the Dukedom which empowered Cornelia. So using Bernadetta’s father as a pawn or saving Lenato as an act of good faith with manipulative undertones actually made Scarlet Blaze a better route. 

Speaking of routes, I quite like how 3Hopes was willing to basically say “This character could go any way in this war, and this is who is ride or die their lord.” I avoids some really weird stuff like Ingrid ever being on black eagles with the only reason being “The Professor told me to” and also adds an interesting layer with characters like Yuri or Dorothea who will do what is best for them and their groups. It also I think allows for more story opportunities like Felix and Sylvain backing Dimitri, Hilda and Holst tag teaming with Claude etc.

Rhea not just disappearing or getting captured also adds for her character to take a lot more initiative. Rhea is mostly passive in 3H with the exception of Crimson Flower. Which led to her character basically being a lot of speculations. And I don’t particularly care for discourse that ends up just being based on speculation. SO yeah, Rhea feels like more a character here.

The politics in 3Hopes are... still pretty bare minimum. I like more characters talk about policy more openly and address concepts like getting people involved in government and the only reason they are keeping lords around is to manage things until they are replaced. It doesn’t feel weighted on one side or the other: all lords get a chance to have an opinion. But again, it is something. 

Graphics wise, it is an improvement. It looks far better than 3H and the character animations, expressions and attacks look so much better. Like Im not even gonna say “Well its a Musou, I expect it to look good”, because I remember FEW, it didn’t look that great with some of its animations. 

That’s the positives out of the way. Lets get into the negatives.

So you know how I said the three routes in 3H generally feel unfinished or not as fleshed out as they could be? Well 3Hopes is the same. It adds more, but due the spin off nature again, it feels not quite finished. I think you should know what 3H is before playing it, but Hopes has just a lot of “because I said so” momentum to its plot. I understand it needs to get to next battle, but it also doesn’t feel super meticulous on its route system. So it really just feels like Fates where everything was already decided for me when I make the choice of what house to join. 

I do respect the game willing to just say that war and conflict doesn’t end no matter what choice you make, but it also just generally feels like you accomplish little when you beat the route big bad, but there’s not a real resolution.

Now while I think Edelgard became much more interesting character in Hopes, I feel like she also gets a worse treatment. Having things like Hagemon Husk and mind control forced on her really feels like its limp wristlet trying to avoid her doing her most ambitious acts, and generally not addressing her and Those who slither in a satisfying way and once again just focusing her sights on Rhea. I have never been a fan of Thales’s influence on the plot and boy it doesn’t becoming any clearer in this game. Scarlet Blaze again feels incomplete with Tharles and Rhea just doing themselves in feels extremely unsatisfying. And before you think I am picking on Edelgard, trust me I have words for all the lords. There was a lot of people upset with Claude in Golden Wildfire seemingly being so bent on killing Rhea as that was the only way to fix the system. While many have already pointed out how that is wrong and basically his own ending proves that conflict doesn’t just end when one figure head is taken out, I actually do think this showed an interesting thing about the perception of 3H characters. Claude is often called a schemer, but we don’t really see him take any duplicitous actions beyond not reveal his racial background. He’s honestly a pretty open guy, but one willing to be very observational which sets him apart from the very single minded Edelgard and Dimitri. However, Wildfire does make Claude much more manipulative in his actions with Edelgard and his murder of Rhea. But many found this out of character as it seemed as Claude is the one who always found another way. I think overall, Golden Wildfire is fine, but once again, it playing with a different Claude and I think that will effect some people.

And now we get to Dimitri. Who I think got the worst of it all. Dimitri is quite literally down a character arc. I like intro of actually feuding with his uncle, there’s definitely manipulation by Cornelia, but if you know 3H, Rufus has a bit of a point in his fear of Dimitri. But that really never comes. Boar Dimitri is primarily absent and we honestly lose the best part of his character journey, needing to learn his vengeance isn’t going to fix the issues his people are facing. That he must take that anger and make a better Faerghus as king. Im not against maintaining sane Dimitri, but it really feels like Azure Gleam is objectively trying to be the good route. Multiple characters like Miklan get a redemption, the Church sides with Faerghus, Claude and Dimitri ally with not manipulation by Claude, Edelgard is made into a puppet and saved by her adoptive brother and left in a state she is no longer a threat, and he still has his close friend in Shez. Like literally, Dimitri gets everything he wants with his mental issues never being an obstacle. 

Some have theorized that this was intentionally, this was the team creating a deconstruction of the concept of the golden route. That secretly everything happened is bad. But I don’t believe this theory. I believe due to Dimitri being the most popular lord, we saw a route where a lot of his edges were sanded down to give the player a more dream-like, almost Kaga era, style story of noble people over coming noble problems and magic bad guys in black robes was the real evil. Dimitri was already subversive of the standard Fire Emblem lord, he is Sigurd or Chrom that thinks powering your way through will make things right and then needs to be told that how he has acted is wrong. He went to edge and needed to be pulled back. And if not, he will ultimately die.

And speaking of characters, Sothis’s sudden change is... again not that well done. I like the idea of Sothis controlled Byleth and it works for Shez’s story, but its also super disconnected from any church stuff so it feels like another missed opportunity.

And of course there is the game play issues. For a musou game to be this many chapters, its generally monotonous. Some people love it and will never get sick of it, but I will admit when I am on my 3rd play through of the game, I was feeling like I had scene Shez’s ultimate attack a hundred times by that point.

So did I hate this game? no not really. Its an FE spin off game with completely different play style, the only thing I can compare it to is the last FEW which it is a lot better than. I don’t think Hopes and Houses should be treated as linked, they are clearly different takes on the same concept. I think I found myself liking Hopes when it pandered to me already knowing the characters. But I honestly still think Houses was the better way to experience these characters for all the faults I have with it. 

Overall, it is a not worth full price title, but I can’t say its awful. I think what it tries to do is commendable and if you just want more time with the Fodlan kids, I think you will love this. But I just can’t say I liked it myself. 

[hapigairu]

Yeah there's a bit of an individualist vs collectivist conflict going on between Edel & Dimi and considering how much 3H took cues from Persona with the calendar system and how they presented Byleth, this is probably another aspect they took from that series since P5 deals with individualist vs collectivist ideology.

It explains why the west views Edel in a more positive light since the west tends to favor individualism (along with being critical of religion) although given that the developers describe her path as the hadou/path of tyranny and Dimi as odou/path of righteousness, I think 3H was supposed to be some sort of critique on the individualist mindset and how it can lead to people doing bad things.

I really need to replay Persona 5, it's been a while.

Yes, I do wonder how much research the writers made when it comes to each lord's ideology and, well, how much of their own political biases seeped through.

It's possible one of the inspirations for Edelgard's politics came from the big legal upheaval Japan went through during Meiji. Japan in the 1880s was very interested in the German concept of Rechsstaat (state of law) and wanted to incorporate it into their future constitution. They especially liked the interpretation of Friedrich Julius Stahl (I think it was him?) about how the State was the sovereign and only he (cause let's be honest, women didn't have much opportunities to have their voices heard, let alone get into power...) had legislative powers. But when Itoh Hirobumi (who went to Germany to learn about its political system basically) asked Rudolf von Gneist about (more or less) adopting the German constitution in Japan, Gneist said that it wouldn't work because each constitution is unique and adapted to the country in which it has been written. But Japan (with Inoue Kowashi mainly) found a way to adapt this concept of Rechtsstaat by resurrecting the notion of Kokutai (国体, body of the nation). Basically, what this meant is that the Emperor was above the nation and held supreme authority. Now, this constitution was the object of very different interpretations: one liberal and the other authoritarian. It's the latter who gained traction, which greatly helped the... uh, well, the totalitarian trajectory Japan took. Now, I'm not saying Edelgard is a fascist or anything. She did, however, centre all the power around her and is the one who get to change the law as she sees fit. And that her government could very much take a dark turn a few decades later, regardless of what she wanted. Plus, with the very anti-war stance in Japan (for the most part, mind you), it's possible that the writers were inspired by this part of history when they created Edelgard. (also they are many more nuances to the kokutai and the things I mentioned, but I don't think they'd be that relevant to this discussion?)

[300iqprower]

Okay so without trying to go on too long a tangent, it's basically a matter of both tone and scope.

Just as Persona 5 is focused on being larger than life and extremely stylish in a way that grabs people and takes them for a ride, Persona 4 is focused on being mundane and down to earth in a way that creates a completely different setting and connection to said setting focused on that comparatively 'bland' scenario. Persona 4 doesn't have grappling hook superhero vigilantes or gynoid tank girls, and treats its equivalents as much more outlandish. An easy example is the comparison of how in Persona 5 the characters get flashy outfits to match their shadow world setting, whereas in Persona 4 it intentionally juxtaposes high school uniforms against these outlandish dream worlds. That sort of thing can basically be applied to the style of P4 as a whole. P3 does this as well obviously but in P4 it's a lot more intentional and thematically relevant/consistent

This is reflected in everything from the overworld to the villains to the gameplay loop to the party members. When, Where, Who, What, Why, yadda yadda. It all reflect this.

The party members include a Pop Star and a Teenage Detective, yeah, but it starts out and gradually expands to that. In P5 you immediately become best friends with "Delinquent everyone hates and foreign popular girl", whereas Yosuke and Chie are literally "Just some teenagers" and even Yukiko "popular girl" status and Kanji's "Delinquent" status are about breaking down those ideas whereas Ryuji and Anne never reject those labels. Same goes for Rise and Naoto actively wanting to open up to become more than those labels. Teddie's very existence is constantly called into question whereas with Mona they're mainly like "Ok I guess that thing exists now". In the persona 5 team everyone is some sort of special gifted person, whereas in Persona 4 a key point of the story is how random students are just getting dragged into this mess.

The timeframe and location is styled after a sleepy rural town a few years behind the times, compared to both P3 and P5 being near-future and the latter in particular being as urban as it gets. Everyone knows everyone, and the overworld is meant to show that with most of it being similar looking and interconnected as opposed to taking a train to vastly different and varied locations in a single day. Where P5 feels like you explore more and more new overworld spots, P4 is more like "oh wow I never realized this was here before!" about placed you've seen already.

The villains in P5 are all cartoonish bad guys with no ambiguity to them, whereas the entire focus of P4 is a murder mystery in a town where the killer's motives are impossible to figure out and could be any random person off the street for all you know.

All that sorta stuff basically creates a completely different feel than P5. Whether it's a better one is subject to personal tastes, but i'd say it's pretty undeniably a completely different experience by the end of it, and as with that sort of thing you're absolutely gonna get people who favor one of those experiences over the other. For plenty of people the "mundanity" of P4 makes it feel much more real and grounded, not necessarily "blander".

Still legitimately don’t understand why people’s favorite persona game is Persona 4

Don’t get me wrong, Persona 4’s great and all, but I just don’t get why it’s people’s favorite of all the Persona games.

At least as far as the characters go, I feel like the other games have far more interesting characters in them

I’m not trying to be insulting. If Persona 4 is your favorite, please explain. I want to love it as much as you, I just don’t get it.

Also if you know of any good fanfics to read that give the characters interesting characterization send them my way, they are all so bland to me I need help understanding why people like them so I can like them too

[rontra]

in the failteacher yuri saga will we be seeing any other p3 or p5 characters? or is it jus gonna be toriumi and kawakami?

i looooove how you portray toriumi/kawakami but im also curious abt what other pairings you like

(your art is amazing as always btw)

thank you!!!! 😘

it depends mostly on whim to be honestMDFJBH

i currently have...one. potential role for a p5 character. that i think is VERY Funny. but bc the nature of this comic is pretty improv-heavy we will simply Have To See if those seeds come to fruition or not HBFDHJG (and in a similar vein i might Think Of some other gag that requires a p3/p5 character Later that i dont know about rn)

for pairings i'm generally not actively engaged with p5 ships unless you count Me peeling back my monitor screen to enter the story and woo kawakami (i can save her) so we probably arent gonna get that specifically . F

(yukamitsu nation rise up though)

generally speaking there's the gameplan of not getting too involved with the PLOT of p5...partially because i dont think its necessary and partially because i would need to skim so many wiki pages to pull off anything substantial HAHAHA but there might be small roles here and there. who can say. smiles. mostly it'll be unmentioned though so who even knows if it's even happening in the bg or not 💀

suffice to say i'm a p3head . for pretty easy circumstantial reasons p5 was nowhere near as Life Altering to me as playing p3 at like Age 12 was. so in other terms p5 is like "a game i enjoyed playing but didn't need to commit to memory In Complete Detail" and p3 is like "a game that rocked my shit Permanently so i know the plot and timeline of it by heart" so it's much easier for me to pull from p3......

........however p3 already happened like 7 years ago in-universe so all of that knowledge is USELESS!!!!!!!

i have the directly au-relevant knowledge of p5 and p3 loaded. idk if we'll get into much beyoooond that stuff . is what i'll say. HDHBJFG

anyway my people are still trying to contact sae niijima's people to arrange a playdate but that's mostly for my own interests

[boypussydilf]

skuttles up. hi hello saw the homemade ask meme.... can i offer you a ryuji and akira in this trying time, if i may, thought i'd go for something different because i assume you have 9845978375892 akechi asks (<- literally isn't different in any form)

shockingly ive only gotten 1 rhat involved akechi. im simultaneously going YESSS, deLICIOUS, some VARIETY, i can think about someone ELSE for once, and also Wheresakechi…… i wanna see akechi…. ANYWAY, HELL fucking yeah, akira and ryuji, my og p5 faves, my boys, the healing power of best bros, etc etc. putting it under a cut before i even start it bc. yeah

describe their canon relationship/dynamic

BEST BROS. The First Phantom Thieves. the leader and his right hand arm man. an unstoppable power duo who trust each other, want to help each other, want to protect each other, want to lift each other up, want to stay by each other’s sides. by god have you seen them? have you looked at them? They’re incredible. They’re wonderful. their bond is unbreakable forged in the fires of facing danger side by side, of both being unfairly outcast and unable to do anything but roll with it, of being sillygoofy hanging out having fun together. they look out for each other. they take care of each other. They’re Best Friends.

your ideal/headcanon version of it? how does it differ from how it is in canon & why is this your favorite version? any other alternate versions of it you enjoy?

i think the version of them that lives in my brain is basically the same just, tends to veer more clearly Romantic. they are dating <3 but there’s also like. they have the clear potential and power to do a lot of Stupid Shit together, True Meaning Of Boys Will Be Boys kinda stuff, but with the constraints of p5 not letting akira be a character & not including a ton of non-plot-relevant character interactions they don’t get to goof off like i Know they can. if you put them together Sometimes akira will become the voice of reason but sometimes he just goes Wow that stupid thing is a GREAT idea!!! and then they run off skipping and holding hands to do something really really dumb. and have the time of their lives

what do you like about their relationship, why is it interesting or enjoyable to you?

looks at them with my autistic eyes.

I always say “healing power of best bros” when referring 2 them bc i called them that Once and then it stuck in my brain forever but like. Yeah. That’s it. That’s the thing. I love, like. Bromances. They make the best relationship dynamic tbh. Both as a “what if these characters were dating” thing and also just like, the concept, although there’s rarely ever been a “bromance” that was not Just Gay. Its just the sheer joy of, here’s two guys and they do Traditional Guy Stuff together but it also runs very deep and they’re inseparably close and its. God. The power of the typical Male Best Friends dynamic but with the element that they have seen each other’s souls and will support each other unconditionally as people and. and. I thought of another thing for this sentence but I forgot it… im very sleepy…

Basically they have a type of dynamic that appeals to me a lot because it’s very fun and sweet and enjoyable.

what about the individual characters involved? what does this relationship mean to them, what makes it unique among their relationships?

GOD! GOD!!! Far from the first person to talk about this. Only even thought about it because so many other people talked about it. But. Like. They have both gotten unfairly ostracized and don’t really have Anyone, no real friends around them, no one has really Been Truly Nice to either of them in a while. And then they both meet someone who is nice to them and hears what people say about them & doesn’t care both because they’re in similar situations and also because they’d just like each other and be nice to each other anyway regardless!! Akiras first friend in Tokyo, Ryujis first friend in A While……

Ryuji feels like he belongs with Akira. I can never get over the stuff he says in his confidant…… he feels Free around akira…. he feels like they Belong by each other’s sides….. im turnin into a crying cat bro,.. its so sweet…. After everything that’s happened ryuji has found someone who goes out of his way to help him!! Someone who wants to lift him up! Someone who just likes Ryuji!

And akira gets The Social Interaction He Needs… from someone who’s straightforward, doesn’t talk around things and says what he thinks… Ryuji mother hens him and goes out of his way to talk to him and talks about all the things he likes about Akira without hesitating just smiling ans going of course i like you you’re you!

They r looking at each other and going This is the coolest guy ever!! they are verbally making a tier list of big bang burger menu items at full volume in a public place they are trying to lift each other over their heads this got off track. They are both so happy to have this uncomplicated relationship with someone who just wants to cheer them on.

favorite interaction they have in canon

“but there’s nothing to see there” “whaddya mean? you’re there!”

also all the times ryuji gets super pissed about shido on akira’s behalf.

favorite interaction they have in your head/a situation you want to put them in

I just wanna see them be silly and stupid together man. I just wanna see them hang out forever. I wanna look at the bocky comic for 1 million year. I want to see them enacting the Troy & Abed plots of various Community episodes. I like these guys. A lot.